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  • Trump eschews jury trial

    From mINE109@21:1/5 to All on Mon Oct 2 12:12:21 2023
    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-arrives-in-new-york-court-for-trial-in-lawsuit-that-could-jeopardize-his-real-estate-empire

    NEW YORK (AP) — Former President Donald Trump showed up on Monday for a
    trial in a lawsuit that could cost him control of Trump Tower and other
    prized properties, after vowing to defend his reputation in a case he
    calls “a sham.”

    Trump, who built his political career on his fame as a billionaire real
    estate ace and master of “The Art of the Deal,” appeared voluntarily for
    a trial that has high stakes for him...

    Judge Arthur Engoron already has ruled that Trump committed fraud in his business dealings. It is a non-jury trial, so Engoron will decide on six
    other claims in the lawsuit.

    End quote.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Art Sackman@21:1/5 to All on Sun Oct 8 19:20:23 2023
    On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 1:12:24 PM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-arrives-in-new-york-court-for-trial-in-lawsuit-that-could-jeopardize-his-real-estate-empire

    NEW YORK (AP) — Former President Donald Trump showed up on Monday for a trial in a lawsuit that could cost him control of Trump Tower and other prized properties, after vowing to defend his reputation in a case he
    calls “a sham.”

    Trump, who built his political career on his fame as a billionaire real estate ace and master of “The Art of the Deal,” appeared voluntarily for a trial that has high stakes for him...

    Judge Arthur Engoron already has ruled that Trump committed fraud in his business dealings. It is a non-jury trial, so Engoron will decide on six other claims in the lawsuit.

    End quote.

    Eschew on this. Trump did not eschew.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mINE109@21:1/5 to Art Sackman on Mon Oct 9 09:49:17 2023
    On 10/8/23 9:20 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 1:12:24 PM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-arrives-in-new-york-court-for-trial-in-lawsuit-that-could-jeopardize-his-real-estate-empire

    Eschew on this. Trump did not eschew.

    I was being ironic. It's clear the decision not to ask for a jury trial
    was either a mistake or a strategy to avoid overheated jury punitive
    damages.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Art Sackman@21:1/5 to All on Mon Oct 9 12:23:23 2023
    On Monday, October 9, 2023 at 10:49:20 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 10/8/23 9:20 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 1:12:24 PM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-arrives-in-new-york-court-for-trial-in-lawsuit-that-could-jeopardize-his-real-estate-empire
    Eschew on this. Trump did not eschew.
    I was being ironic. It's clear the decision not to ask for a jury trial
    was either a mistake or a strategy to avoid overheated jury punitive damages.

    from ABA


    "The law at issue, Section 63(12) of the New York Executive Law, allows the New York attorney general to sue businesses or people for engaging in “persistent and repeated business fraud.” The law doesn’t ban jury trials, but precedent bars jury
    trials when damages sought are equitable in nature, Law.com and Snopes.com explain.

    James’ lawsuit sought equitable relief, including a ban on Trump working as an officer or a director in any New York corporation for five years. James’ suit also seeks disgorgement of financial benefits obtained as a result of the wrongdoing,
    estimated at $250 million."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mINE109@21:1/5 to Art Sackman on Mon Oct 9 15:23:07 2023
    On 10/9/23 2:23 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Monday, October 9, 2023 at 10:49:20 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 10/8/23 9:20 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 1:12:24 PM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-arrives-in-new-york-court-for-trial-in-lawsuit-that-could-jeopardize-his-real-estate-empire
    Eschew on this. Trump did not eschew.

    I was being ironic. It's clear the decision not to ask for a jury
    trial was either a mistake or a strategy to avoid overheated jury
    punitive damages.

    from ABA

    "The law at issue, Section 63(12) of the New York Executive Law,
    allows the New York attorney general to sue businesses or people for
    engaging in “persistent and repeated business fraud.” The law
    doesn’t ban jury trials, but precedent bars jury trials when damages
    sought are equitable in nature, Law.com and Snopes.com explain.

    That's also Habba's publicly stated belief.

    The text of the law is here:

    https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/EXC/63

    The "Note of Issue":

    https://www.nycourts.gov/LegacyPDFS/COURTS/10JD/nassau/pdf/CourtHelpForms/26-NoteofIssue/H-26pf.pdf

    "Trial by jury demanded" is the first box available. Trump's lawyers
    didn't submit one, so the question of precedent is moot.

    Aaron Parnas: "In New York, a party seeking to have a jury trial may
    file a jury trial demand either at the time of serving their note of
    issue or within 15 days of receiving such a note. A note of issue is a
    document that signifies to the opposing side that discovery in a case is complete."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Art Sackman@21:1/5 to All on Wed Oct 11 21:10:52 2023
    On Monday, October 9, 2023 at 4:23:13 PM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 10/9/23 2:23 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Monday, October 9, 2023 at 10:49:20 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 10/8/23 9:20 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 1:12:24 PM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-arrives-in-new-york-court-for-trial-in-lawsuit-that-could-jeopardize-his-real-estate-empire
    Eschew on this. Trump did not eschew.

    I was being ironic. It's clear the decision not to ask for a jury
    trial was either a mistake or a strategy to avoid overheated jury
    punitive damages.

    from ABA

    "The law at issue, Section 63(12) of the New York Executive Law,
    allows the New York attorney general to sue businesses or people for engaging in “persistent and repeated business fraud.” The law doesn’t ban jury trials, but precedent bars jury trials when damages sought are equitable in nature, Law.com and Snopes.com explain.
    That's also Habba's publicly stated belief.

    The text of the law is here:

    https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/EXC/63

    The "Note of Issue":

    https://www.nycourts.gov/LegacyPDFS/COURTS/10JD/nassau/pdf/CourtHelpForms/26-NoteofIssue/H-26pf.pdf

    "Trial by jury demanded" is the first box available. Trump's lawyers
    didn't submit one, so the question of precedent is moot.

    Aaron Parnas: "In New York, a party seeking to have a jury trial may
    file a jury trial demand either at the time of serving their note of
    issue or within 15 days of receiving such a note. A note of issue is a document that signifies to the opposing side that discovery in a case is complete."

    That's a very fine form.
    But it's not the one that Trump's attorney signed.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ScottW@21:1/5 to All on Wed Oct 11 21:38:48 2023
    On Monday, October 9, 2023 at 1:23:13 PM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
    On 10/9/23 2:23 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Monday, October 9, 2023 at 10:49:20 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 10/8/23 9:20 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 1:12:24 PM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-arrives-in-new-york-court-for-trial-in-lawsuit-that-could-jeopardize-his-real-estate-empire
    Eschew on this. Trump did not eschew.

    I was being ironic. It's clear the decision not to ask for a jury
    trial was either a mistake or a strategy to avoid overheated jury
    punitive damages.

    from ABA

    "The law at issue, Section 63(12) of the New York Executive Law,
    allows the New York attorney general to sue businesses or people for engaging in “persistent and repeated business fraud.” The law doesn’t ban jury trials, but precedent bars jury trials when damages sought are equitable in nature, Law.com and Snopes.com explain.
    That's also Habba's publicly stated belief.

    The text of the law is here:

    https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/EXC/63

    The "Note of Issue":

    https://www.nycourts.gov/LegacyPDFS/COURTS/10JD/nassau/pdf/CourtHelpForms/26-NoteofIssue/H-26pf.pdf

    "Trial by jury demanded" is the first box available. Trump's lawyers
    didn't submit one, so the question of precedent is moot.

    Aaron Parnas: "In New York, a party seeking to have a jury trial may
    file a jury trial demand either at the time of serving their note of
    issue or within 15 days of receiving such a note. A note of issue is a document that signifies to the opposing side that discovery in a case is complete."

    Stop with the irrelevant BS.

    Judge: "Former President Donald Trump did not request a jury for his New York civil fraud trial, but even if he had asked for one, the answer would've been "no".

    "It would not have helped to make a motion. Nobody forgot to check off a box," Engoron said.

    ScottW

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mINE109@21:1/5 to Art Sackman on Thu Oct 12 07:58:11 2023
    On 10/11/23 11:10 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Monday, October 9, 2023 at 4:23:13 PM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 10/9/23 2:23 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Monday, October 9, 2023 at 10:49:20 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 10/8/23 9:20 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 1:12:24 PM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-arrives-in-new-york-court-for-trial-in-lawsuit-that-could-jeopardize-his-real-estate-empire
    Eschew on this. Trump did not eschew.

    I was being ironic. It's clear the decision not to ask for a jury
    trial was either a mistake or a strategy to avoid overheated jury
    punitive damages.

    from ABA

    "The law at issue, Section 63(12) of the New York Executive Law,
    allows the New York attorney general to sue businesses or people for
    engaging in “persistent and repeated business fraud.” The law
    doesn’t ban jury trials, but precedent bars jury trials when damages
    sought are equitable in nature, Law.com and Snopes.com explain.
    That's also Habba's publicly stated belief.

    The text of the law is here:

    https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/EXC/63

    The "Note of Issue":

    https://www.nycourts.gov/LegacyPDFS/COURTS/10JD/nassau/pdf/CourtHelpForms/26-NoteofIssue/H-26pf.pdf

    "Trial by jury demanded" is the first box available. Trump's lawyers
    didn't submit one, so the question of precedent is moot.

    Aaron Parnas: "In New York, a party seeking to have a jury trial may
    file a jury trial demand either at the time of serving their note of
    issue or within 15 days of receiving such a note. A note of issue is a
    document that signifies to the opposing side that discovery in a case is
    complete."

    That's a very fine form.
    But it's not the one that Trump's attorney signed.

    Yes, that's the problem. Here's the official form filed July 31:

    https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24003215-new-york-attorney-general-trump-trial-no-jury-notice

    https://law.justia.com/codes/new-york/2012/cvp/article-41/4102

    " Any party may demand a trial by jury of any issue of fact
    triable of right by a jury, by serving upon all other parties and
    filing a note of issue containing a demand for trial by jury. Any
    party served with a note of issue not containing such a demand may
    demand a trial by jury by serving upon each party a demand for a trial
    by jury and filing such demand in the office where the note of
    issue was filed within fifteen days after service of the note of
    issue. A demand shall not be accepted for filing unless a note of
    issue is filed in the action. If no party shall demand a trial by
    jury as provided herein, the right to trial by jury shall be deemed
    waived by all parties."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mINE109@21:1/5 to ScottW on Thu Oct 12 08:10:41 2023
    On 10/11/23 11:38 PM, ScottW wrote:
    On Monday, October 9, 2023 at 1:23:13 PM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
    On 10/9/23 2:23 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Monday, October 9, 2023 at 10:49:20 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 10/8/23 9:20 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 1:12:24 PM UTC-4, mINE109
    wrote:
    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-arrives-in-new-york-court-for-trial-in-lawsuit-that-could-jeopardize-his-real-estate-empire


    Eschew on this. Trump did not eschew.

    I was being ironic. It's clear the decision not to ask for a
    jury trial was either a mistake or a strategy to avoid
    overheated jury punitive damages.

    from ABA

    "The law at issue, Section 63(12) of the New York Executive Law,
    allows the New York attorney general to sue businesses or people
    for engaging in “persistent and repeated business fraud.” The
    law doesn’t ban jury trials, but precedent bars jury trials when
    damages sought are equitable in nature, Law.com and Snopes.com
    explain.
    That's also Habba's publicly stated belief.

    The text of the law is here:

    https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/EXC/63

    The "Note of Issue":

    https://www.nycourts.gov/LegacyPDFS/COURTS/10JD/nassau/pdf/CourtHelpForms/26-NoteofIssue/H-26pf.pdf


    "Trial by jury demanded" is the first box available. Trump's lawyers
    didn't submit one, so the question of precedent is moot.

    Aaron Parnas: "In New York, a party seeking to have a jury trial
    may file a jury trial demand either at the time of serving their
    note of issue or within 15 days of receiving such a note. A note of
    issue is a document that signifies to the opposing side that
    discovery in a case is complete."

    Stop with the irrelevant BS.

    Art and I were talking about court forms.

    Judge: "Former President Donald Trump did not request a jury for his
    New York civil fraud trial, but even if he had asked for one, the
    answer would've been "no".

    "It would not have helped to make a motion. Nobody forgot to check
    off a box," Engoron said.

    Art's cite of Snopes has the relevant background

    https://www.snopes.com/news/2023/10/03/trumps-lawyers-forget-check-box/

    "It is true, as Judge Engoron stated, that the Trump team did not try to
    assert a right to a jury trial under N.Y. CPLR 4102. It is also true,
    however, that being awarded a jury trial would have been much more
    complicated than simply "checking a box.""

    Thanks. Trump's lack of request for a jury trial remains moot.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)