So I was re-reading Asimov recently, and one of the stories was Pate de Foie Gras, about the goose that laid the golden egg. This is a special goose: it’s a nuclear reactor. It converts oxygen-18 to iron-56 to gold-197. As gold is a heavy metal and toxic, it gets rid of the gold as plating in its eggs. Which are infertile, thanks to the gold. There’s a lot more sciency-style detail about the experiments which determine how it does this.
Poul Anderson once had a fantasy involving all kinds of magical creatures and all kinds of magical effects, such as certain creatures turning to stone on being exposed to sunlight... and inflicting a curse on any who plunder their stoney bodies. Obviously, if carbon is transmuted to silicon, it’ll probably be a _radioactive_ isotope of silicon... Similar sciency-stuff for other things.
And Randall Garret perpetuated a story in which he alleges that the original Thor was a time-traveller with a big handgun. Yeah, there were frost giants, who were really naughty. Yeah, “It flew from his hand! Smote them! Crushed them! And returned!"
And David Brin has Thor meet Captain America, but not the way most think. And Loki’s a good guy.
Any more candidates?
In article <0001HW.2AB908E800787E9370001026838F@news.supernews.com>,
WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:
So I was re-reading Asimov recently, and one of the stories was Pate de Foie >> Gras, about the goose that laid the golden egg. This is a special goose:
it’s a nuclear reactor. It converts oxygen-18 to iron-56 to gold-197. As >> gold is a heavy metal and toxic, it gets rid of the gold as plating in its >> eggs. Which are infertile, thanks to the gold. There’s a lot more
sciency-style detail about the experiments which determine how it does this. >>
Poul Anderson once had a fantasy involving all kinds of magical creatures and
all kinds of magical effects, such as certain creatures turning to stone on >> being exposed to sunlight... and inflicting a curse on any who plunder their >> stoney bodies. Obviously, if carbon is transmuted to silicon, it’ll
probably be a _radioactive_ isotope of silicon... Similar sciency-stuff for >> other things.
And Randall Garret perpetuated a story in which he alleges that the original >> Thor was a time-traveller with a big handgun. Yeah, there were frost giants, >> who were really naughty. Yeah, “It flew from his hand! Smote them! Crushed >> them! And returned!"
And David Brin has Thor meet Captain America, but not the way most think. And
Loki’s a good guy.
Any more candidates?
Do Rosemary Kirstein's _The Steerswoman_ and sequels qualify? There are >people who are referred to as wizards and monsters such as dragons and >basilisks, but it all Clarke's Third Law fakery. Also "demons" showed up
in a sequel, but they were an alien species.
Any more candidates?
So I was re-reading Asimov recently, and one of the stories was Pate de Foie Gras, about the goose that laid the golden egg. This is a special goose: it’s a nuclear reactor. It converts oxygen-18 to iron-56 to gold-197. As
Any more candidates?
Any more candidates?
WolfFan wrote:
Any more candidates?
A modern example is the Innkeeper Chronicles series from "Ilona
Andrews" (a husband/wife duo). It starts out seeming like an urban
fantasy. Dina is the keeper of a magic Inn, where she travels through
portals the marketplace with many strange creatures. A group of
Vampires is expected for stay. And she detects that a Werewolf has
moved into the neighborhood.
But it turns out it's all supposed to be science fiction. The Inn is a
living being that's psychially linked with Dina. The Vampires are
humanoid warrious with fangs, from distant worlds, not undead
bloodsuckers. The Werewolf is the descendent of bioengineered soldiers
from yet another world.
Now, the science is pretty soft, especially the biology (her sister has
baby with a Vampire) and this would I think fall in the "science
fantasy" category.
Brian
On Thu, 21 Sep 2023 22:45:31 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/20/2023 2:08 AM, Default User wrote:
WolfFan wrote:
Any more candidates?
A modern example is the Innkeeper Chronicles series from "Ilona
Andrews" (a husband/wife duo). It starts out seeming like an urban
fantasy. Dina is the keeper of a magic Inn, where she travels through
portals the marketplace with many strange creatures. A group of
Vampires is expected for stay. And she detects that a Werewolf has
moved into the neighborhood.
But it turns out it's all supposed to be science fiction. The Inn is a
living being that's psychially linked with Dina. The Vampires are
humanoid warrious with fangs, from distant worlds, not undead
bloodsuckers. The Werewolf is the descendent of bioengineered soldiers
from yet another world.
Now, the science is pretty soft, especially the biology (her sister has
baby with a Vampire) and this would I think fall in the "science
fantasy" category.
Brian
No more softer than the Liadens having babies with Terrans. Liadens are >>from another Universe, not just another planet. Of course, there is the >>Jurassic Park argument, biology will find a way.
I don't see that being from another Universe, as such, matters.
Those who believe that the Universe is fully-determined or entirely >mechanistic, for example, would, it seems to me, have to agree that,
if two Universes had the exact same physics and the exact same
starting conditions, then they would progress /identically/ in every
way, simply because no alternatives exist. So, if the Liadans came
from the Earth of the alternate Universe, then they and Terrans would
be -- the same species. With the same history, the same languages, the
same cultures.
--
On 9/20/2023 2:08 AM, Default User wrote:
WolfFan wrote:
Any more candidates?
A modern example is the Innkeeper Chronicles series from "Ilona
Andrews" (a husband/wife duo). It starts out seeming like an urban
fantasy. Dina is the keeper of a magic Inn, where she travels through
portals the marketplace with many strange creatures. A group of
Vampires is expected for stay. And she detects that a Werewolf has
moved into the neighborhood.
But it turns out it's all supposed to be science fiction. The Inn is a
living being that's psychially linked with Dina. The Vampires are
humanoid warrious with fangs, from distant worlds, not undead
bloodsuckers. The Werewolf is the descendent of bioengineered soldiers
from yet another world.
Now, the science is pretty soft, especially the biology (her sister has
baby with a Vampire) and this would I think fall in the "science
fantasy" category.
Brian
No more softer than the Liadens having babies with Terrans. Liadens are >from another Universe, not just another planet. Of course, there is the >Jurassic Park argument, biology will find a way.
On Thu, 21 Sep 2023 22:45:31 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/20/2023 2:08 AM, Default User wrote:
WolfFan wrote:
Any more candidates?
A modern example is the Innkeeper Chronicles series from "Ilona
Andrews" (a husband/wife duo). It starts out seeming like an urban
fantasy. Dina is the keeper of a magic Inn, where she travels through
portals the marketplace with many strange creatures. A group of
Vampires is expected for stay. And she detects that a Werewolf has
moved into the neighborhood.
But it turns out it's all supposed to be science fiction. The Inn is a
living being that's psychially linked with Dina. The Vampires are
humanoid warrious with fangs, from distant worlds, not undead
bloodsuckers. The Werewolf is the descendent of bioengineered soldiers
from yet another world.
Now, the science is pretty soft, especially the biology (her sister has
baby with a Vampire) and this would I think fall in the "science
fantasy" category.
Brian
No more softer than the Liadens having babies with Terrans. Liadens are >>from another Universe, not just another planet. Of course, there is the
Jurassic Park argument, biology will find a way.
I don't see that being from another Universe, as such, matters.
Those who believe that the Universe is fully-determined or entirely mechanistic, for example, would, it seems to me, have to agree that,
if two Universes had the exact same physics and the exact same
starting conditions, then they would progress /identically/ in every
way, simply because no alternatives exist. So, if the Liadans came
from the Earth of the alternate Universe, then they and Terrans would
be -- the same species. With the same history, the same languages, the
same cultures.
On 9/20/2023 2:08 AM, Default User wrote:
Now, the science is pretty soft, especially the biology (her sister
has baby with a Vampire) and this would I think fall in the "science >>fantasy" category.
No more softer than the Liadens having babies with Terrans. Liadens
are from another Universe, not just another planet. Of course, there
is the Jurassic Park argument, biology will find a way.
On 9/22/2023 8:29 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Thu, 21 Sep 2023 22:45:31 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/20/2023 2:08 AM, Default User wrote:
WolfFan wrote:
Any more candidates?
A modern example is the Innkeeper Chronicles series from "Ilona
Andrews" (a husband/wife duo). It starts out seeming like an urban
fantasy. Dina is the keeper of a magic Inn, where she travels through
portals the marketplace with many strange creatures. A group of
Vampires is expected for stay. And she detects that a Werewolf has
moved into the neighborhood.
But it turns out it's all supposed to be science fiction. The Inn is a >>>> living being that's psychially linked with Dina. The Vampires are
humanoid warrious with fangs, from distant worlds, not undead
bloodsuckers. The Werewolf is the descendent of bioengineered soldiers >>>> from yet another world.
Now, the science is pretty soft, especially the biology (her sister has >>>> baby with a Vampire) and this would I think fall in the "science
fantasy" category.
Brian
No more softer than the Liadens having babies with Terrans. Liadens are >>>from another Universe, not just another planet. Of course, there is the >>> Jurassic Park argument, biology will find a way.
I don't see that being from another Universe, as such, matters.
Those who believe that the Universe is fully-determined or entirely
mechanistic, for example, would, it seems to me, have to agree that,
if two Universes had the exact same physics and the exact same
starting conditions, then they would progress /identically/ in every
way, simply because no alternatives exist. So, if the Liadans came
from the Earth of the alternate Universe, then they and Terrans would
be -- the same species. With the same history, the same languages, the
same cultures.
And both developing and using the ability to travel to the other
universe at the same time....
In article <egcrgidcmrrkqjtf36b5jnu669rnmif2ui@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 21 Sep 2023 22:45:31 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/20/2023 2:08 AM, Default User wrote:
WolfFan wrote:
Any more candidates?
A modern example is the Innkeeper Chronicles series from "Ilona
Andrews" (a husband/wife duo). It starts out seeming like an urban
fantasy. Dina is the keeper of a magic Inn, where she travels through
portals the marketplace with many strange creatures. A group of
Vampires is expected for stay. And she detects that a Werewolf has
moved into the neighborhood.
But it turns out it's all supposed to be science fiction. The Inn is a >>>> living being that's psychially linked with Dina. The Vampires are
humanoid warrious with fangs, from distant worlds, not undead
bloodsuckers. The Werewolf is the descendent of bioengineered soldiers >>>> from yet another world.
Now, the science is pretty soft, especially the biology (her sister has >>>> baby with a Vampire) and this would I think fall in the "science
fantasy" category.
Brian
No more softer than the Liadens having babies with Terrans. Liadens are >>>from another Universe, not just another planet. Of course, there is the >>>Jurassic Park argument, biology will find a way.
I don't see that being from another Universe, as such, matters.
Those who believe that the Universe is fully-determined or entirely >>mechanistic, for example, would, it seems to me, have to agree that,
if two Universes had the exact same physics and the exact same
starting conditions, then they would progress /identically/ in every
way, simply because no alternatives exist. So, if the Liadans came
from the Earth of the alternate Universe, then they and Terrans would
be -- the same species. With the same history, the same languages, the
same cultures.
--
That's not the way the Liaden old universe worked. For instance, the
value of Pi was not the same, setting aside a completely different set
of stars & planets.
Poul Anderson once had a fantasy involving all kinds of magical creatures and all kinds of magical effects, such as certain creatures turning to stone on being exposed to sunlight... and inflicting a curse on any who plunder their stoney bodies. Obviously, if carbon is transmuted to silicon, it’ll probably be a _radioactive_ isotope of silicon... Similar sciency-stuff for other things.
[...]
Any more candidates?
That's not the way the Liaden old universe worked. For instance, the
value of Pi was not the same, setting aside a completely different set
of stars & planets.
On 2023-09-22 11:34 AM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
That's not the way the Liaden old universe worked. For instance, the
value of Pi was not the same, setting aside a completely different set
of stars & planets.
Given that pi can be calculated in multiple ways as the sum of
mathematical converging infinite series, it's hard to see how that could >be... Archie Plutonium's "theories" notwithstanding. Of course, that's
the mathematical constant, which can differ from the _physical_ value
(e.g. the ratio between the circumference and diameter of a circle)
depending on the curvature of space.
Joel
On 2023-09-22 11:34 AM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:from the _physical_ value (e.g. the ratio between the circumference and diameter of a circle) depending on the curvature of space.
That's not the way the Liaden old universe worked. For instance, the
value of Pi was not the same, setting aside a completely different set
of stars & planets.
Given that pi can be calculated in multiple ways as the sum of mathematical converging infinite series, it's hard to see how that could be... Archie Plutonium's "theories" notwithstanding. Of course, that's the mathematical constant, which can differ
In article <5902752a-4c6c-4300-a5cf-f0c9cc481999@sympatico.ca>,
Joel Polowin <jpolowin@sympatico.ca> wrote:
On 2023-09-22 11:34 AM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
That's not the way the Liaden old universe worked. For instance, the
value of Pi was not the same, setting aside a completely different set
of stars & planets.
Given that pi can be calculated in multiple ways as the sum of
mathematical converging infinite series, it's hard to see how that could
be... Archie Plutonium's "theories" notwithstanding. Of course, that's
the mathematical constant, which can differ from the _physical_ value
(e.g. the ratio between the circumference and diameter of a circle)
depending on the curvature of space.
Joel
Well, the context is that Professor Liad calls out the value as a
adjustment factor during the inter-universal transversal, and it apparently means nothhing to anyone else in the crew (who are all mathy spacers themselves).
Joel Polowin wrote:
Ted wrote:
That's not the way the Liaden old universe worked. For instance, the
value of Pi was not the same, setting aside a completely different set
of stars & planets.
Given that pi can be calculated in multiple ways as the sum of mathematical >> converging infinite series, it's hard to see how that could be... Archie
Plutonium's "theories" notwithstanding. Of course, that's the mathematical >> constant, which can differ from the _physical_ value (e.g. the ratio between >> the circumference and diameter of a circle) depending on the curvature of
space.
Of course, in anything other than flat, Euclidean space, the ratio
of the circumference of a circle to its diameter is not constant, but
depends on its diameter (at least) and position (in a negatively
curved space, I think).
Michael wrote:
Joel Polowin wrote:
Ted wrote:
That's not the way the Liaden old universe worked. For instance, the >>>> value of Pi was not the same, setting aside a completely different set >>>> of stars & planets.
Given that pi can be calculated in multiple ways as the sum of mathematical >>> converging infinite series, it's hard to see how that could be... Archie >>> Plutonium's "theories" notwithstanding. Of course, that's the mathematical
constant, which can differ from the _physical_ value (e.g. the ratio between
the circumference and diameter of a circle) depending on the curvature of >>> space.
Of course, in anything other than flat, Euclidean space, the ratio
of the circumference of a circle to its diameter is not constant, but
depends on its diameter (at least) and position (in a negatively
curved space, I think).
Allow me to use the groups as an adhoc classroom. Let me know if my pi pertinent philosophy shown below doesn't make sense.
The ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter is an
observable fact. And accordingly associated with Aristotlean thought.
OTOH, notions of non-Euclidean space are Platonic. And non-
Euclidean space Platonically pulls pi apart to the breaking point?
On 10/31/2023 9:39 AM, Don wrote:
Michael wrote:Purely thought experiment until such time as we can observe
Joel Polowin wrote:
Ted wrote:
That's not the way the Liaden old universe worked. For instance, the >>>>> value of Pi was not the same, setting aside a completely different set >>>>> of stars & planets.
Given that pi can be calculated in multiple ways as the sum of
mathematical
converging infinite series, it's hard to see how that could be...
Archie
Plutonium's "theories" notwithstanding. Of course, that's the
mathematical
constant, which can differ from the _physical_ value (e.g. the ratio
between
the circumference and diameter of a circle) depending on the
curvature of
space.
Of course, in anything other than flat, Euclidean space, the ratio
of the circumference of a circle to its diameter is not constant, but
depends on its diameter (at least) and position (in a negatively
curved space, I think).
Allow me to use the groups as an adhoc classroom. Let me know if my pi
pertinent philosophy shown below doesn't make sense.
The ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter is an
observable fact. And accordingly associated with Aristotlean thought.
OTOH, notions of non-Euclidean space are Platonic. And non-
Euclidean space Platonically pulls pi apart to the breaking point?
non-Euclidean space to conduct actual experiments.
Don wrote:
Michael wrote:Purely thought experiment until such time as we can observe
Joel Polowin wrote:
Ted wrote:
That's not the way the Liaden old universe worked. For instance, the >>>>>> value of Pi was not the same, setting aside a completely different set >>>>>> of stars & planets.
Given that pi can be calculated in multiple ways as the sum of
mathematical
converging infinite series, it's hard to see how that could be...
Archie
Plutonium's "theories" notwithstanding. Of course, that's the
mathematical
constant, which can differ from the _physical_ value (e.g. the ratio >>>>> between
the circumference and diameter of a circle) depending on the
curvature of
space.
Of course, in anything other than flat, Euclidean space, the ratio
of the circumference of a circle to its diameter is not constant, but
depends on its diameter (at least) and position (in a negatively
curved space, I think).
Allow me to use the groups as an adhoc classroom. Let me know if my pi
pertinent philosophy shown below doesn't make sense.
The ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter is an
observable fact. And accordingly associated with Aristotlean thought.
OTOH, notions of non-Euclidean space are Platonic. And non-
Euclidean space Platonically pulls pi apart to the breaking point?
non-Euclidean space to conduct actual experiments.
If it's not flat, it's not a "circle" (each point is equidistant from
center)
Yes. The limitation of man's mind makes men imagine a black hole as
a deep depression in flat, 2-D space. But, the thought experiment is cognitive dissonant because 3-D space is directly observable. This
is one manifestation of the dilemma of Modern Physics.
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