• Something other than inform 7 or TADS

    From Peter Pears@21:1/5 to All on Wed Oct 5 02:38:14 2016
    Where can I find a good tutorial on inform 6?

    Well, it's not a tutorial, but the DM4 is probably your best (and only?) bet:

    http://inform-fiction.org/manual/

    You may also want to check out Inform School:

    http://ifdb.tads.org/viewgame?id=a1f3kx4uzq4fdfm8

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  • From kerbingamer376@21:1/5 to John W. Kennedy on Wed Oct 5 00:02:21 2016
    On Tuesday, October 4, 2016 at 3:26:50 PM UTC+1, John W. Kennedy wrote:
    On 2016-10-04 06:39:06 +0000, kerbingamer376 said:

    On Tuesday, October 4, 2016 at 12:30:40 AM UTC+1, John W. Kennedy wrote:
    On 2016-10-03 16:07:03 +0000, kerbingamer376 said:

    On Monday, October 3, 2016 at 4:42:50 PM UTC+1, John W. Kennedy wrote: >>>> On 2016-10-03 15:20:35 +0000, kerbingamer376 said:

    Hi,
    I'm trying to write some interactive fiction, but I find inform 7, as a >>>>> language, too verbose and hard to work with as a result, and I can't >>>>> for my life figure out how to get TADS to work. Is there a different >>>>> option for writing interactive fiction, that allows for complex custom >>>>> scripting?

    Adventure, and a complete clone of the original mainframe Zork, were >>>> written in Fortran. Even modern dialects of COBOL can do it, with
    enough effort. Wiser choices might be Java or Swift. If you don't mind >>>> the computational overhead, I suppose you could use JavaScript or Ruby. >>>>
    But the entire point of Inform and TADS is to make things easier. A lot >>>> easier. If you're finding them too difficult, then the odds
    overwhelmingly favor the hypothesis that you're trying to run before >>>> you learn to walk.

    --
    John W Kennedy
    "Sweet, was Christ crucified to create this chat?"
    -- Charles Williams. "Judgement at Chelmsford"

    The reason I find inform too difficult is verbose syntax and
    complicated, english-like grammar. The reason why TADS is so difficult >>> is I can never get the compiler to work.

    It would help if you would say something specific and definite. Is
    English not your native language? Was your mother frightened by a COBOL
    manual when she was pregnant with you? Are you running some sort of
    exotic or antique operating system that is almost-but-not-quite
    supported by TADS? I know nothing of TADS, myself, but know that many
    people have used it. What programming languages do you know? What
    natural languages do you know?

    --
    John W Kennedy
    "Never try to take over the international economy based on a radical
    feminist agenda if you're not sure your leader isn't a transvestite."
    -- David Misch: "She-Spies", "While You Were Out"

    Programming languages: C,Python,JS,Java,a bunch of others
    Natural languages: English (native language)

    The reason why the TADS compiler won't work is it complains it can't
    find "en_us.h"

    Do you have the Workbench? That is recommended.

    If you are using t3make, you need to specify the -I flag with the
    directory that the TADS include files are in.

    --
    John W Kennedy
    "Those in the seat of power oft forget their failings and seek only the obeisance of others! Thus is bad government born! Hold in your heart
    that you and the people are one, human beings all, and good government
    shall arise of its own accord! Such is the path of virtue!"
    -- Kazuo Koike. "Lone Wolf and Cub: Thirteen Strings" (tr. Dana Lewis)

    I can't use the workbench as I am on arch linux, and I have asked the person who packaged TADS about this, and I'm waiting for a response.

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  • From Adam Thornton@21:1/5 to martinjp376@gmail.com on Wed Oct 5 14:27:23 2016
    In article <adb2cf51-cedf-4791-86de-8fd5c7a8e6f4@googlegroups.com>, kerbingamer376 <martinjp376@gmail.com> wrote:

    Where can I find a good tutorial on inform 6?

    http://bfy.tw/82YD

    The Designer's Manual is still the gold standard.

    http://inform-fiction.org/manual/DM4.pdf

    Adam

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  • From Richard Bos@21:1/5 to martinjp376@gmail.com on Sun Oct 9 10:19:37 2016
    kerbingamer376 <martinjp376@gmail.com> wrote:

    I'm trying to write some interactive fiction, but I find inform 7, as a lan= guage, too verbose and hard to work with as a result, and I can't for my li= fe figure out how to get TADS to work. Is there a different option for writ= ing interactive fiction, that allows for complex custom scripting?

    Inform 6 still exists... it's even being maintained.

    Richard

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  • From Richard Bos@21:1/5 to Adam Thornton on Sun Oct 9 10:21:36 2016
    adam@fsf.net (Adam Thornton) wrote:

    In article <adb2cf51-cedf-4791-86de-8fd5c7a8e6f4@googlegroups.com>, kerbingamer376 <martinjp376@gmail.com> wrote:

    Where can I find a good tutorial on inform 6?

    http://bfy.tw/82YD

    The Designer's Manual is still the gold standard.

    http://inform-fiction.org/manual/DM4.pdf

    More than that. I'd recommend at least the design section to users of
    other IF languages as well, and with DM4 in hand I'd even recommend
    Inform 6 as an early (if not necessarily first) language for someone
    learning programming in general. It really is that good, IMO.

    Richard

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  • From namekuseijin@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 13 10:26:35 2016
    how about plain html and javascript? or twine?

    really, if you go with a general purpose language, all you'll end up with after much hardwork is a subpar parser engine lacking a lot of the sophistication and world model of Inform and Tads. much easier just quit whining and learn them...

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  • From FizzyP@21:1/5 to namekuseijin on Fri Oct 14 08:42:34 2016
    On Thursday, October 13, 2016 at 11:26:38 AM UTC-6, namekuseijin wrote:
    how about plain html and javascript? or twine?

    really, if you go with a general purpose language, all you'll end up with after much hardwork is a subpar parser engine lacking a lot of the sophistication and world model of Inform and Tads. much easier just quit whining and learn them...

    I agree 100%. I'm a software developer and I can assure you starting from scratch is going to be orders of magnitude harder. Inform 7 is not that hard to learn. I'm sure Inform 6 is fine too. Learning a general purpose programming language is going
    to bring all sorts of things into play that are interesting but not directly. Computer programming in general can have a sort of infuriating side to it until you get some practice.

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  • From Glenn Hutchings@21:1/5 to All on Sun Oct 23 16:16:45 2016
    On 05/10/16 08:02, kerbingamer376 wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 5, 2016 at 1:57:41 AM UTC+1, John Menichelli wrote:
    On Monday, October 3, 2016 at 8:20:37 AM UTC-7, kerbingamer376 wrote:
    Hi,
    I'm trying to write some interactive fiction, but I find inform 7, as a language, ...

    How about Inform 6? It has a more traditional C-like syntax.
    Where can I find a good tutorial on inform 6?


    https://inform-beginners-guide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/

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  • From Douglas Miles@21:1/5 to All on Fri Oct 14 09:21:32 2016
    On Monday, October 3, 2016 at 8:20:37 AM UTC-7, kerbingamer376 wrote:
    Hi,
    I'm trying to write some interactive fiction, but I find inform 7, as a language, too verbose and hard to work with as a result, and I can't for my life figure out how to get TADS to work. Is there a different option for writing interactive fiction,
    that allows for complex custom scripting?

    Hi, I made a new interactive fiction engine called PrologMUD.

    http://www.intfiction.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=13717

    It is written in a combo of Defeasible HOPL (Higher Order Predicate Logic) as well as SWI-Prolog. The "Defeasible Logic" comes from that fact that some rules of how the world works can defeat other rules.

    It uses KIF files (S-Expressions)

    https://github.com/ontologyportal/sumo/blob/master/emotion.kif#L84-L202

    synonymously with.. (P-expressions)

    https://github.com/TeamSPoon/PrologMUD/blob/master/pack/prologmud/prolog/prologmud/mud_builtin.pfc.pl

    and Example of the programing:

    https://github.com/TeamSPoon/PrologMUD/blob/master/pack/prologmud/prolog/prologmud/vworld/world_2d.pl#L222-L244


    World:

    https://github.com/TeamSPoon/PrologMUD/blob/master/pack/prologmud/games/src_game_nani/objs_misc_household.pfc.pl

    https://github.com/TeamSPoon/PrologMUD/blob/master/pack/prologmud/games/src_game_startrek/startrek.all.pfc.pl


    Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUNwYHBWJwQ&index=4&list=PLrsRTzxpFRazrP0XawTjy76P0FQInNWm0

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  • From rpresser@21:1/5 to All on Sun Oct 23 13:21:51 2016
    On Friday, October 14, 2016 at 12:21:49 PM UTC-4, Douglas Miles
    wrote:
    On Monday, October 3, 2016 at 8:20:37 AM UTC-7, kerbingamer376
    wrote:
    Hi, I'm trying to write some interactive fiction, but I find
    inform 7, as a language, too verbose and hard to work with as a
    result, and I can't for my life figure out how to get TADS to
    work. Is there a different option for writing interactive
    fiction, that allows for complex custom scripting?

    Hi, I made a new interactive fiction engine called PrologMUD.

    http://www.intfiction.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=13717

    It is written in a combo of Defeasible HOPL (Higher Order
    Predicate Logic) as well as SWI-Prolog. The "Defeasible Logic"
    comes from that fact that some rules of how the world works can
    defeat other rules.

    It seems like it could be an interesting system but it needs a lot
    of handholding. If one isn't already a Prolog expert, why would one
    choose this system?

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  • From David Griffith@21:1/5 to Glenn Hutchings on Mon Oct 24 12:50:09 2016
    Glenn Hutchings <zondo42@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 05/10/16 08:02, kerbingamer376 wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 5, 2016 at 1:57:41 AM UTC+1, John Menichelli wrote: >>> On Monday, October 3, 2016 at 8:20:37 AM UTC-7, kerbingamer376 wrote:
    Hi,
    I'm trying to write some interactive fiction, but I find inform 7, as a language, ...

    How about Inform 6? It has a more traditional C-like syntax.
    Where can I find a good tutorial on inform 6?

    https://inform-beginners-guide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/

    An update to the IBG is underway. See https://github.com/i6/ibg.

    --
    David Griffith
    davidmylastname@acm.org <--- Put my last name where it belongs

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  • From Richard Bos@21:1/5 to rpresser on Sun Oct 30 12:21:27 2016
    rpresser <rpresser@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Friday, October 14, 2016 at 12:21:49 PM UTC-4, Douglas Miles

    Hi, I made a new interactive fiction engine called PrologMUD.

    http://www.intfiction.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=13717

    It is written in a combo of Defeasible HOPL (Higher Order
    Predicate Logic) as well as SWI-Prolog. The "Defeasible Logic"
    comes from that fact that some rules of how the world works can
    defeat other rules.

    It seems like it could be an interesting system but it needs a lot
    of handholding. If one isn't already a Prolog expert, why would one
    choose this system?

    I haven't looked at this system in particular, but I've played with
    Prolog, and it did strike me as well that its predicate logic would be
    an interesting one to use for, in particular, the input pattern matching
    needed to parse IF commands. I never took it any further, though, so I
    can't say whether I was right, let alone whether Douglas is.

    Richard

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  • From Adam Thornton@21:1/5 to Richard Bos on Wed Nov 2 00:16:04 2016
    In article <5815e564.6828375@news.xs4all.nl>,
    Richard Bos <rlbos@xs4all.nl> wrote:
    rpresser <rpresser@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Friday, October 14, 2016 at 12:21:49 PM UTC-4, Douglas Miles
    Hi, I made a new interactive fiction engine called PrologMUD.
    I haven't looked at this system in particular, but I've played with
    Prolog, and it did strike me as well that its predicate logic would be
    an interesting one to use for, in particular, the input pattern matching >needed to parse IF commands. I never took it any further, though, so I
    can't say whether I was right, let alone whether Douglas is.

    Waaaaay back in the mid-nineties, Phil Goetz did some IF stuff in
    Prolog. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.arts.int-fiction/sHeNwmq05mM

    I think I recall a game for the Apple II (so likely from the 80s?) that
    he did that used Prolog.

    Adam

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