XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

On Sun, 19 Dec 2021 16:42:35 -0500, John W Kennedy
<john.w.kennedy@gmail.com> wrote:

On 12/19/21 11:16 AM, Paul S Person wrote:

On Sat, 18 Dec 2021 22:47:42 -0500, Joy Beeson
<jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:

On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 14:17:25 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

I think so. Remove "Good" and you've got "All Cows Eat Grass,"
which may be an earlier version. After all, we've had cows
longer than we've had cars. (And five-lined music paper.)

My music teachers taught "FACE" and "All Cows Eat GRASS" and "Every
Good Boy Does Fine" and probaby more -- but never mentioned that the
letters are in alphabetical order. That would have covered all the
memnonics, and been more useful. They might as well have been trying
to keep me from noticing.

I must not be understanding what you mean by "alphabetical order"
(well, for the first and especially for the third).

Either that, or you are using a /very/ strange alphabet! One where "e"
both /preceeds/ and /follows/ "f".

It�s alphabetical order if you alternate lines and spaces, and if you go
back to A after G (as music does).

Bass | All Cows Eat Grass
Clef | Good Boys Do Fine Always

Space | (B) (D)
Between | (Middle C)

Treble | F A C E
Clef | Every Good Boy Deserves Fudge

So, the theory here is that "alphabetical order" means ... a closed
loop of a subset of the alphabet.

Which generally starts in the middle. (1 out of 4 starts with "A").

Still, I agree that, if you memorize the note corresponding to the
first line, and remember when to loop around, you can find the rest.

The focus on "boys" looks a bit ... sexist ... by today's standards.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

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XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

On 12/20/21 11:43 AM, Paul S Person wrote:

On Sun, 19 Dec 2021 16:42:35 -0500, John W Kennedy
<john.w.kennedy@gmail.com> wrote:

On 12/19/21 11:16 AM, Paul S Person wrote:

On Sat, 18 Dec 2021 22:47:42 -0500, Joy Beeson
<jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:

On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 14:17:25 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

I think so. Remove "Good" and you've got "All Cows Eat Grass,"
which may be an earlier version. After all, we've had cows
longer than we've had cars. (And five-lined music paper.)

My music teachers taught "FACE" and "All Cows Eat GRASS" and "Every
Good Boy Does Fine" and probaby more -- but never mentioned that the
letters are in alphabetical order. That would have covered all the
memnonics, and been more useful. They might as well have been trying
to keep me from noticing.

I must not be understanding what you mean by "alphabetical order"
(well, for the first and especially for the third).

Either that, or you are using a /very/ strange alphabet! One where "e"
both /preceeds/ and /follows/ "f".

It’s alphabetical order if you alternate lines and spaces, and if you go >> back to A after G (as music does).


Bass | All Cows Eat Grass
Clef | Good Boys Do Fine Always


Space | (B) (D)
Between | (Middle C)


Treble | F A C E
Clef | Every Good Boy Deserves Fudge

So, the theory here is that "alphabetical order" means ... a closed
loop of a subset of the alphabet.

Which generally starts in the middle. (1 out of 4 starts with "A").

Still, I agree that, if you memorize the note corresponding to the
first line, and remember when to loop around, you can find the rest.

The focus on "boys" looks a bit ... sexist ... by today's standards.

The clefs were designed to approximate the ranges of human voices:

Treble (boy sopranos) Middle C on a line below the bottom line
Soprano C on the bottom line
Mezzo soprano C on the line above the bottom line
Alto C on the middle line
Tenor C on the line beneath the top line
Baritone C on the top line
Bass C on a line above the top line

(And above Treble clef, there’s also French violin clef.)

But around the Renaissance-to-modern transition, most of the clefs
disappeared, except for Treble and Bass, except that violas play from
the Alto clef and Cellos and Bassoons, when they’re unusually high, play
from the Tenor clef.

Please understand that all this started in its current form in the
Renaissance, based on earlier methods from the early middle ages,
beginning with roots going back to Pythagoras, And the whole system is
based on the mathematical accident that 3^12 is nearly equal to 2^19,
while 3^7 is nearly equal to 2^11.

--
John W. Kennedy

First, a piece of glass he coated
With collodion, and plunged it
In a bath of lunar caustic
Carefully dissolved in water—
There he left it certain minutes.

Secondly, my Hiawatha
Made with cunning hand a mixture
Of the acid pyrro-gallic,
And of glacial-acetic,
And of alcohol and water
This developed all the picture.

Finally, he fixed each picture
With a saturate solution
Which was made of hyposulphite
Which, again, was made of soda.
(Very difficult the name is
For a metre like the present
But periphrasis has done it.)

—Canceled passage from “Hiawatha’s Photographing”

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

On 2021-12-20 11:43 a.m., Paul S Person wrote:

On Sun, 19 Dec 2021 16:42:35 -0500, John W Kennedy
<john.w.kennedy@gmail.com> wrote:

On 12/19/21 11:16 AM, Paul S Person wrote:

On Sat, 18 Dec 2021 22:47:42 -0500, Joy Beeson
<jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:

On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 14:17:25 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

I think so. Remove "Good" and you've got "All Cows Eat Grass,"
which may be an earlier version. After all, we've had cows
longer than we've had cars. (And five-lined music paper.)

My music teachers taught "FACE" and "All Cows Eat GRASS" and "Every
Good Boy Does Fine" and probaby more -- but never mentioned that the
letters are in alphabetical order. That would have covered all the
memnonics, and been more useful. They might as well have been trying
to keep me from noticing.

I must not be understanding what you mean by "alphabetical order"
(well, for the first and especially for the third).

Either that, or you are using a /very/ strange alphabet! One where "e"
both /preceeds/ and /follows/ "f".

It’s alphabetical order if you alternate lines and spaces, and if you go >> back to A after G (as music does).


Bass | All Cows Eat Grass
Clef | Good Boys Do Fine Always


Space | (B) (D)
Between | (Middle C)


Treble | F A C E
Clef | Every Good Boy Deserves Fudge

So, the theory here is that "alphabetical order" means ... a closed
loop of a subset of the alphabet.

Yup.

Which generally starts in the middle. (1 out of 4 starts with "A").

The notation was developed for it's utility.

First you have the treble clef:

F-----------
E
D-----------
C
B-----------
A
G-----------
F
E-----------

Then you get the two spaces and one line that are below the treble clef

D
C---
B

And then immediately below that, you get the bass clef:

A-----------
G
F-----------
E
D-----------
C
B-----------
A
G-----------

When notes need to be written outside of the clef, you indicate
placement by drawing short lines to "connect" the note to whichever clef
is nearer, or in the case of piano, to keep notes played by left or
right hand with the rest of the notes for that hand (at least, that's
what I think I recall).


On sheet music for piano, you'll usually see them printed together with
a line draw vertically to connect the pair.

||---------------------------------
||
||---------------------------------
||
||---------------------------------
||
||---------------------------------
||
||---------------------------------
||
||
||
||---------------------------------
||
||---------------------------------
||
||---------------------------------
||
||---------------------------------
||
||---------------------------------


That's about the limit of my ASCII art skills





So between them you span nearly 3 octaves, and quite a lot of the
(ordinary) human vocal range.

The A in the treble clef is 440Hz, so the bottom A of the bass clef is
110Hz.

The range of someone singing bass is about 75-300Hz, so that spans from
a couple of notes below that lower a on the bass clef to about the
bottom of the treble clef.

Sopranos can sing from about "middle C" (the one between the two staffs,
also known as "C4") to about the first A above the treble clef ("A5").

There are also other clefs for other musical ranges as it's generally
easier to read notes that are within the staff than those above or below
it by very much.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clef>

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

On 12/18/21 19:47, Joy Beeson wrote:

On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 14:17:25 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

I think so. Remove "Good" and you've got "All Cows Eat Grass,"
which may be an earlier version. After all, we've had cows
longer than we've had cars. (And five-lined music paper.)

My music teachers taught "FACE" and "All Cows Eat GRASS" and "Every
Good Boy Does Fine" and probaby more -- but never mentioned that the
letters are in alphabetical order. That would have covered all the memnonics, and been more useful. They might as well have been trying
to keep me from noticing.

Not a musician, couldn't carry a tune in a bucket, etc. But I remember
it as Every Good Boy Deserves Favor (Favour) from the Moody Blues album
of the same name. I think I wore out the record and at least one needle
playing it back in the day.

Typical Usenet... we go from Wally and Covid to music clefs.

--
Dave Scruggs
Captain, Boulder Creek Fire (Retired)
Sr. Software Engineer - Stellar Solutions (Definitely Retired)

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XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

On Mon, 20 Dec 2021 14:52:51 -0800, BCFD36 <bcfd36@cruzio.com> wrote:

On 12/18/21 19:47, Joy Beeson wrote:

On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 14:17:25 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

I think so. Remove "Good" and you've got "All Cows Eat Grass,"
which may be an earlier version. After all, we've had cows
longer than we've had cars. (And five-lined music paper.)

My music teachers taught "FACE" and "All Cows Eat GRASS" and "Every
Good Boy Does Fine" and probaby more -- but never mentioned that the
letters are in alphabetical order. That would have covered all the
memnonics, and been more useful. They might as well have been trying
to keep me from noticing.

Not a musician, couldn't carry a tune in a bucket, etc. But I remember
it as Every Good Boy Deserves Favor (Favour) from the Moody Blues album
of the same name. I think I wore out the record and at least one needle >playing it back in the day.

Typical Usenet... we go from Wally and Covid to music clefs.

Oh, look, moths!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

On 12/20/21 5:52 PM, BCFD36 wrote:

On 12/18/21 19:47, Joy Beeson wrote:

On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 14:17:25 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

I think so.  Remove "Good" and you've got "All Cows Eat Grass,"
which may be an earlier version.  After all, we've had cows
longer than we've had cars.  (And five-lined music paper.)

My music teachers taught "FACE" and "All Cows Eat GRASS" and "Every
Good Boy Does Fine" and probaby more -- but never mentioned that the
letters are in alphabetical order.  That would have covered all the
memnonics, and been more useful.  They might as well have been trying
to keep me from noticing.

Not a musician, couldn't carry a tune in a bucket, etc. But I remember
it as Every Good Boy Deserves Favor (Favour) from the Moody Blues album
of the same name. I think I wore out the record and at least one needle playing it back in the day.

Yes, “Favo[u]r” and “Fudge” are both seen (and I have all the Moody Blues albums). Not being any sort of music educator, I have no idea
which of the two is more popular, or where, or when. But “Fudge” is what Mrs. McGinnis taught me in Waterville, ME, about a thousand years ago.

Typical Usenet... we go from Wally and Covid to music clefs.

Well, after all, clefs are the key to everything.

--
John W. Kennedy
Algernon Burbage, Lord Roderick, Father Martin, Bishop Baldwin,
King Pellinore, Captain Bailey, Merlin -- A Kingdom for a Stage!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

On 2021-12-21 4:20 p.m., John W Kennedy wrote:

On 12/20/21 5:52 PM, BCFD36 wrote:

On 12/18/21 19:47, Joy Beeson wrote:

On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 14:17:25 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

I think so.  Remove "Good" and you've got "All Cows Eat Grass,"
which may be an earlier version.  After all, we've had cows
longer than we've had cars.  (And five-lined music paper.)

My music teachers taught "FACE" and "All Cows Eat GRASS" and "Every
Good Boy Does Fine" and probaby more -- but never mentioned that the
letters are in alphabetical order.  That would have covered all the
memnonics, and been more useful.  They might as well have been trying
to keep me from noticing.

Not a musician, couldn't carry a tune in a bucket, etc. But I remember
it as Every Good Boy Deserves Favor (Favour) from the Moody Blues
album of the same name. I think I wore out the record and at least one
needle playing it back in the day.

Yes, “Favo[u]r” and “Fudge” are both seen (and I have all the Moody Blues albums). Not being any sort of music educator, I have no idea
which of the two is more popular, or where, or when. But “Fudge” is what Mrs. McGinnis taught me in Waterville, ME, about a thousand years ago.

Typical Usenet... we go from Wally and Covid to music clefs.

Well, after all, clefs are the key to everything.

Sharp thinking!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

In article <xOOdnVffPOys2F_8nZ2dnUU7-TnNnZ2d@giganews.com>,
John W Kennedy <john.w.kennedy@gmail.com> wrote:

On 12/20/21 5:52 PM, BCFD36 wrote:

On 12/18/21 19:47, Joy Beeson wrote:

On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 14:17:25 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

I think so.  Remove "Good" and you've got "All Cows Eat Grass,"
which may be an earlier version.  After all, we've had cows
longer than we've had cars.  (And five-lined music paper.)

My music teachers taught "FACE" and "All Cows Eat GRASS" and "Every
Good Boy Does Fine" and probaby more -- but never mentioned that the
letters are in alphabetical order.  That would have covered all the
memnonics, and been more useful.  They might as well have been trying
to keep me from noticing.

Not a musician, couldn't carry a tune in a bucket, etc. But I remember
it as Every Good Boy Deserves Favor (Favour) from the Moody Blues album
of the same name. I think I wore out the record and at least one needle
playing it back in the day.

Yes, “Favo[u]r” and “Fudge” are both seen (and I have all the Moody >Blues albums). Not being any sort of music educator, I have no idea
which of the two is more popular, or where, or when. But “Fudge” is what >Mrs. McGinnis taught me in Waterville, ME, about a thousand years ago.

Typical Usenet... we go from Wally and Covid to music clefs.

Well, after all, clefs are the key to everything.

Zing.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

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