• Wizard Of Id: Historical Society

    From Lynn McGuire@21:1/5 to All on Thu Apr 13 13:21:58 2023
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    Wizard Of Id: Historical Society
    https://www.gocomics.com/wizardofid/2023/04/13

    I doubt many medieval soldiers can read.

    Lynn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mark Jackson@21:1/5 to Lynn McGuire on Thu Apr 13 16:15:49 2023
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 4/13/2023 2:21 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
    I doubt many medieval soldiers can read.

    Probably couldn't have read when they were alive, either.

    --
    Mark Jackson - https://mark-jackson.online/
    Anyone who has ever struggled with poverty knows
    how extremely expensive it is to be poor.
    - James Baldwin

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul S Person@21:1/5 to lynnmcguire5@gmail.com on Fri Apr 14 09:00:35 2023
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On Thu, 13 Apr 2023 13:21:58 -0500, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    Wizard Of Id: Historical Society
    https://www.gocomics.com/wizardofid/2023/04/13

    I doubt many medieval soldiers can read.

    As the Sheriff of Nottingham (IIRC) says to Robin in /Robin and
    Marion/, "books are for clarks" [1] -- not for noblemen, never mind
    soldiers.

    Yes, I realize this is about a sign, but reading is reading.

    [1] "Clarks" here is "clerks", which in turn is "clerics".
    --
    "In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
    development was the disintegration, under Christian
    influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
    of family right."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Robert Woodward@21:1/5 to Paul S Person on Fri Apr 14 10:08:00 2023
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    In article <0pti3idnr22dq7vdf38pu9tj34r6uo627f@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

    On Thu, 13 Apr 2023 13:21:58 -0500, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    Wizard Of Id: Historical Society
    https://www.gocomics.com/wizardofid/2023/04/13

    I doubt many medieval soldiers can read.

    As the Sheriff of Nottingham (IIRC) says to Robin in /Robin and
    Marion/, "books are for clarks" [1] -- not for noblemen, never mind
    soldiers.


    Are you assuming that a Hollyweird script has a strong resemblance to
    reality?

    Yes, I realize this is about a sign, but reading is reading.

    [1] "Clarks" here is "clerks", which in turn is "clerics".

    The references I find suggest that by the time of the 1st Crusade, a
    high percentage of the royals and high nobles in Western/Central Europe
    could read Latin.

    --
    "We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
    Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_. -------------------------------------------------------
    Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dorothy J Heydt@21:1/5 to robertaw@drizzle.com on Fri Apr 14 17:34:09 2023
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    In article <robertaw-489A08.10080014042023@news.individual.net>,
    Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
    In article <0pti3idnr22dq7vdf38pu9tj34r6uo627f@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

    On Thu, 13 Apr 2023 13:21:58 -0500, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    Wizard Of Id: Historical Society
    https://www.gocomics.com/wizardofid/2023/04/13

    I doubt many medieval soldiers can read.

    As the Sheriff of Nottingham (IIRC) says to Robin in /Robin and
    Marion/, "books are for clarks" [1] -- not for noblemen, never mind
    soldiers.


    Are you assuming that a Hollyweird script has a strong resemblance to >reality?

    Yes, I realize this is about a sign, but reading is reading.

    [1] "Clarks" here is "clerks", which in turn is "clerics".

    The references I find suggest that by the time of the 1st Crusade, a
    high percentage of the royals and high nobles in Western/Central Europe
    could read Latin.

    (Hal Heydt)
    There is supposed to be a quote from Charlemagne that he could
    read just find, but couldn't get the hang of writing. So...ca.
    800.

    There are also claims that the literacy rate in pre-Christian
    Scandinavia was as high as 80%, but dropped precipitously
    post-conversion.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John W Kennedy@21:1/5 to Paul S Person on Fri Apr 14 14:20:49 2023
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 4/14/23 12:00 PM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Thu, 13 Apr 2023 13:21:58 -0500, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    Wizard Of Id: Historical Society
    https://www.gocomics.com/wizardofid/2023/04/13

    I doubt many medieval soldiers can read.

    As the Sheriff of Nottingham (IIRC) says to Robin in /Robin and
    Marion/, "books are for clarks" [1] -- not for noblemen, never mind
    soldiers.

    Yes, I realize this is about a sign, but reading is reading.

    [1] "Clarks" here is "clerks", which in turn is "clerics".

    That, of course, is Modern English.

    “As office boy I made such a mark.
    That they gave me the post of a junior clerk.”

    --
    John W. Kennedy
    Algernon Burbage, Lord Roderick, Father Martin, Bishop Baldwin,
    King Pellinore, Captain Bailey, Merlin -- A Kingdom for a Stage!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dorothy J Heydt@21:1/5 to john.w.kennedy@gmail.com on Fri Apr 14 20:33:59 2023
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    In article <hAydne85j6EcBKT5nZ2dnZfqn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
    John W Kennedy <john.w.kennedy@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 4/14/23 12:00 PM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Thu, 13 Apr 2023 13:21:58 -0500, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    Wizard Of Id: Historical Society
    https://www.gocomics.com/wizardofid/2023/04/13

    I doubt many medieval soldiers can read.

    As the Sheriff of Nottingham (IIRC) says to Robin in /Robin and
    Marion/, "books are for clarks" [1] -- not for noblemen, never mind
    soldiers.

    Yes, I realize this is about a sign, but reading is reading.

    [1] "Clarks" here is "clerks", which in turn is "clerics".

    That, of course, is Modern English.

    “As office boy I made such a mark.
    That they gave me the post of a junior clerk.”

    (Hal Heydt)
    Kudos for the G&S reference. (HMS Pinafore, song by Sir Joseph
    Porter accounting how he became First Lord of the Admiralty, so
    no one has to look it up.)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul S Person@21:1/5 to robertaw@drizzle.com on Sat Apr 15 09:41:46 2023
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On Fri, 14 Apr 2023 10:08:00 -0700, Robert Woodward
    <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:

    In article <0pti3idnr22dq7vdf38pu9tj34r6uo627f@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

    On Thu, 13 Apr 2023 13:21:58 -0500, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    Wizard Of Id: Historical Society
    https://www.gocomics.com/wizardofid/2023/04/13

    I doubt many medieval soldiers can read.

    As the Sheriff of Nottingham (IIRC) says to Robin in /Robin and
    Marion/, "books are for clarks" [1] -- not for noblemen, never mind
    soldiers.


    Are you assuming that a Hollyweird script has a strong resemblance to >reality?

    Sounds realistic to me.

    Yes, I realize this is about a sign, but reading is reading.

    [1] "Clarks" here is "clerks", which in turn is "clerics".

    The references I find suggest that by the time of the 1st Crusade, a
    high percentage of the royals and high nobles in Western/Central Europe >could read Latin.

    Ah, but is the Sheriff of Nottingham a "high noble" or of some lesser
    grade of noble?
    --
    "In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
    development was the disintegration, under Christian
    influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
    of family right."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John W Kennedy@21:1/5 to Paul S Person on Sat Apr 15 14:07:28 2023
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 4/15/23 12:41 PM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Apr 2023 10:08:00 -0700, Robert Woodward
    <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:

    In article <0pti3idnr22dq7vdf38pu9tj34r6uo627f@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

    On Thu, 13 Apr 2023 13:21:58 -0500, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    Wizard Of Id: Historical Society
    https://www.gocomics.com/wizardofid/2023/04/13

    I doubt many medieval soldiers can read.

    As the Sheriff of Nottingham (IIRC) says to Robin in /Robin and
    Marion/, "books are for clarks" [1] -- not for noblemen, never mind
    soldiers.


    Are you assuming that a Hollyweird script has a strong resemblance to
    reality?

    Sounds realistic to me.

    Yes, I realize this is about a sign, but reading is reading.

    [1] "Clarks" here is "clerks", which in turn is "clerics".

    The references I find suggest that by the time of the 1st Crusade, a
    high percentage of the royals and high nobles in Western/Central Europe
    could read Latin.

    Ah, but is the Sheriff of Nottingham a "high noble" or of some lesser
    grade of noble?

    A Sheriff is just the head of the county police. It does not confer
    nobility, and the office is not normally held by a noble. Nowadays, the
    Sheriff of Nottingham remains a real office, but with purely ceremonial
    duties (e.g., greeting the king if he visits) and mainly exists so that tourists won’t be upset.

    However, I would expect a sheriff to be literate, having to deal with
    warrants, etc..

    --
    John W. Kennedy
    Algernon Burbage, Lord Roderick, Father Martin, Bishop Baldwin,
    King Pellinore, Captain Bailey, Merlin -- A Kingdom for a Stage!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul S Person@21:1/5 to john.w.kennedy@gmail.com on Sun Apr 16 08:57:00 2023
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On Sat, 15 Apr 2023 14:07:28 -0400, John W Kennedy
    <john.w.kennedy@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 4/15/23 12:41 PM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Apr 2023 10:08:00 -0700, Robert Woodward
    <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:

    In article <0pti3idnr22dq7vdf38pu9tj34r6uo627f@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

    On Thu, 13 Apr 2023 13:21:58 -0500, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    Wizard Of Id: Historical Society
    https://www.gocomics.com/wizardofid/2023/04/13

    I doubt many medieval soldiers can read.

    As the Sheriff of Nottingham (IIRC) says to Robin in /Robin and
    Marion/, "books are for clarks" [1] -- not for noblemen, never mind
    soldiers.


    Are you assuming that a Hollyweird script has a strong resemblance to
    reality?

    Sounds realistic to me.

    Yes, I realize this is about a sign, but reading is reading.

    [1] "Clarks" here is "clerks", which in turn is "clerics".

    The references I find suggest that by the time of the 1st Crusade, a
    high percentage of the royals and high nobles in Western/Central Europe
    could read Latin.

    Ah, but is the Sheriff of Nottingham a "high noble" or of some lesser
    grade of noble?

    A Sheriff is just the head of the county police. It does not confer >nobility, and the office is not normally held by a noble. Nowadays, the >Sheriff of Nottingham remains a real office, but with purely ceremonial >duties (e.g., greeting the king if he visits) and mainly exists so that >tourists wont be upset.

    However, I would expect a sheriff to be literate, having to deal with >warrants, etc..

    That's what he has clerks for.
    --
    "In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
    development was the disintegration, under Christian
    influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
    of family right."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John W Kennedy@21:1/5 to Paul S Person on Sun Apr 16 15:11:52 2023
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 4/16/23 11:57 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Sat, 15 Apr 2023 14:07:28 -0400, John W Kennedy
    <john.w.kennedy@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 4/15/23 12:41 PM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Apr 2023 10:08:00 -0700, Robert Woodward
    <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:

    In article <0pti3idnr22dq7vdf38pu9tj34r6uo627f@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

    On Thu, 13 Apr 2023 13:21:58 -0500, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    Wizard Of Id: Historical Society
    https://www.gocomics.com/wizardofid/2023/04/13

    I doubt many medieval soldiers can read.

    As the Sheriff of Nottingham (IIRC) says to Robin in /Robin and
    Marion/, "books are for clarks" [1] -- not for noblemen, never mind
    soldiers.


    Are you assuming that a Hollyweird script has a strong resemblance to
    reality?

    Sounds realistic to me.

    Yes, I realize this is about a sign, but reading is reading.

    [1] "Clarks" here is "clerks", which in turn is "clerics".

    The references I find suggest that by the time of the 1st Crusade, a
    high percentage of the royals and high nobles in Western/Central Europe >>>> could read Latin.

    Ah, but is the Sheriff of Nottingham a "high noble" or of some lesser
    grade of noble?

    A Sheriff is just the head of the county police. It does not confer
    nobility, and the office is not normally held by a noble. Nowadays, the
    Sheriff of Nottingham remains a real office, but with purely ceremonial
    duties (e.g., greeting the king if he visits) and mainly exists so that
    tourists won’t be upset.

    However, I would expect a sheriff to be literate, having to deal with
    warrants, etc..

    That's what he has clerks for.

    I thought of that, but what’s the point of having a Sheriff if he can’t patrol the county all by himself OR do the paperwork?

    --
    John W. Kennedy
    Algernon Burbage, Lord Roderick, Father Martin, Bishop Baldwin,
    King Pellinore, Captain Bailey, Merlin -- A Kingdom for a Stage!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)