• Over The Hedge: Can One Ever Eat Too Much Pie ?

    From Lynn McGuire@21:1/5 to All on Wed Dec 29 12:50:58 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    Over The Hedge: Can One Ever Eat Too Much Pie ?
    https://www.gocomics.com/overthehedge/2021/12/29

    No.

    Lynn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dorothy J Heydt@21:1/5 to lynnmcguire5@gmail.com on Thu Dec 30 02:59:14 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    In article <sqiamj$qfs$1@dont-email.me>,
    Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
    Over The Hedge: Can One Ever Eat Too Much Pie ?
    https://www.gocomics.com/overthehedge/2021/12/29

    No.

    Well, diabetes....

    --
    Dorothy J. Heydt
    Vallejo, California
    djheydt at gmail dot com
    Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joy Beeson@21:1/5 to Heydt on Thu Dec 30 01:27:39 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 02:59:14 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
    Heydt) wrote:

    In article <sqiamj$qfs$1@dont-email.me>,
    Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
    Over The Hedge: Can One Ever Eat Too Much Pie ?
    https://www.gocomics.com/overthehedge/2021/12/29

    No.

    Well, diabetes....

    And there's fitting through doorways.

    --
    Joy Beeson
    joy beeson at centurylink dot net
    http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to Lynn McGuire on Thu Dec 30 20:32:35 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 2021-12-29 18:50:58 +0000, Lynn McGuire said:

    Over The Hedge: Can One Ever Eat Too Much Pie ?
    https://www.gocomics.com/overthehedge/2021/12/29

    No.

    Lynn

    Greatly depends on what's in the pie.

    For example, 'pumpkin pie' is simply digusting so even a tiny bit on
    the end of a toothpick is far too much.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul S Person@21:1/5 to All on Thu Dec 30 09:15:19 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 20:32:35 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
    wrote:

    On 2021-12-29 18:50:58 +0000, Lynn McGuire said:

    Over The Hedge: Can One Ever Eat Too Much Pie ?
    https://www.gocomics.com/overthehedge/2021/12/29

    No.

    Lynn

    Greatly depends on what's in the pie.

    For example, 'pumpkin pie' is simply digusting so even a tiny bit on
    the end of a toothpick is far too much.

    De gustibus non est disputandum.

    Surprises in Amazon's efforts to provide canned fruit have exposed me
    to two fruits I never had when growing up but have heard about:
    gooseberries and rhubarb.

    I didn't like them; I suspect they are an acquired taste.

    But bake them into a pie with enough sugar and I suspect they would
    taste a whole lot better to me.
    --
    "I begin to envy Petronius."
    "I have envied him long since."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dorothy J Heydt@21:1/5 to jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid on Thu Dec 30 16:21:46 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    In article <t8kqsgd8ktuuusif8snfpfetqnnjl10qpn@4ax.com>,
    Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
    On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 02:59:14 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
    Heydt) wrote:

    In article <sqiamj$qfs$1@dont-email.me>,
    Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
    Over The Hedge: Can One Ever Eat Too Much Pie ?
    https://www.gocomics.com/overthehedge/2021/12/29

    No.

    Well, diabetes....

    And there's fitting through doorways.

    Ernestine Schuman-Heink (1861-1936) was an operatic contralto of
    not inconsiderable mass (although judging by many photographs on
    Wikipedia, she wasn't all *that* huge. One of her common roles
    was the Witch in _Haensel und Gretel_. The tale is told that she
    was scheduled to perform with a large symphony orchestra; the
    size of the orchestra is relevant, because the many players and
    their music stands packed the available space.

    So she was trying to get from the wings to the front of the
    stage, and there just wasn't room. The conductor whispered to
    her, "Go sideways, Madame!"

    She answered, in her magnificent contralto that filled the entire
    hall, "Mein Gott, es gibt kein Sideways!"

    --
    Dorothy J. Heydt
    Vallejo, California
    djheydt at gmail dot com
    Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ted Nolan @21:1/5 to psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid on Thu Dec 30 17:22:05 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    In article <u4qrsg1ofs6t5304674djqlt5m2b5d144e@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 20:32:35 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
    wrote:

    On 2021-12-29 18:50:58 +0000, Lynn McGuire said:

    Over The Hedge: Can One Ever Eat Too Much Pie ?
    https://www.gocomics.com/overthehedge/2021/12/29

    No.

    Lynn

    Greatly depends on what's in the pie.

    For example, 'pumpkin pie' is simply digusting so even a tiny bit on
    the end of a toothpick is far too much.

    De gustibus non est disputandum.

    Surprises in Amazon's efforts to provide canned fruit have exposed me
    to two fruits I never had when growing up but have heard about:
    gooseberries and rhubarb.

    I didn't like them; I suspect they are an acquired taste.

    But bake them into a pie with enough sugar and I suspect they would
    taste a whole lot better to me.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hodg5It3usE
    --
    columbiaclosings.com
    What's not in Columbia anymore..

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dorothy J Heydt@21:1/5 to psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid on Thu Dec 30 17:39:24 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    In article <u4qrsg1ofs6t5304674djqlt5m2b5d144e@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 20:32:35 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
    wrote:

    On 2021-12-29 18:50:58 +0000, Lynn McGuire said:

    Over The Hedge: Can One Ever Eat Too Much Pie ?
    https://www.gocomics.com/overthehedge/2021/12/29

    No.

    Lynn

    Greatly depends on what's in the pie.

    For example, 'pumpkin pie' is simply digusting so even a tiny bit on
    the end of a toothpick is far too much.

    De gustibus non est disputandum.

    Surprises in Amazon's efforts to provide canned fruit have exposed me
    to two fruits I never had when growing up but have heard about:
    gooseberries and rhubarb.

    I didn't like them; I suspect they are an acquired taste.

    But bake them into a pie with enough sugar and I suspect they would
    taste a whole lot better to me.

    Rhubarb pie (with, yes, sufficient sugar) is delectable. I have
    never encountered gooseberries.

    --
    Dorothy J. Heydt
    Vallejo, California
    djheydt at gmail dot com
    Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Robert Woodward@21:1/5 to Paul S Person on Thu Dec 30 10:19:58 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    In article <u4qrsg1ofs6t5304674djqlt5m2b5d144e@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:

    On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 20:32:35 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
    wrote:

    On 2021-12-29 18:50:58 +0000, Lynn McGuire said:

    Over The Hedge: Can One Ever Eat Too Much Pie ?
    https://www.gocomics.com/overthehedge/2021/12/29

    No.

    Lynn

    Greatly depends on what's in the pie.

    For example, 'pumpkin pie' is simply digusting so even a tiny bit on
    the end of a toothpick is far too much.

    De gustibus non est disputandum.

    Surprises in Amazon's efforts to provide canned fruit have exposed me
    to two fruits I never had when growing up but have heard about:
    gooseberries and rhubarb.


    Rhubarb is not a fruit.

    I didn't like them; I suspect they are an acquired taste.

    But bake them into a pie with enough sugar and I suspect they would
    taste a whole lot better to me.

    The house that my parents bought when I was 13 had several acres of land attached to it which included a rhubarb patch. Mom baked several rhubarb
    pies each summer.

    --
    "We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
    Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_. -------------------------------------------------------
    Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lynn McGuire@21:1/5 to Your Name on Thu Dec 30 14:09:03 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 12/30/2021 1:32 AM, Your Name wrote:
    On 2021-12-29 18:50:58 +0000, Lynn McGuire said:

    Over The Hedge: Can One Ever Eat Too Much Pie ?
        https://www.gocomics.com/overthehedge/2021/12/29

    No.

    Lynn

    Greatly depends on what's in the pie.

    For example, 'pumpkin pie' is simply digusting so even a tiny bit on the
    end of a toothpick is far too much.

    I love the pumpkin pie that my wife makes with her own custom spice mix.
    She made three for Christmas and I bought a pecan pie at HEB.

    Lynn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to Lynn McGuire on Fri Dec 31 09:18:37 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 2021-12-30 20:09:03 +0000, Lynn McGuire said:
    On 12/30/2021 1:32 AM, Your Name wrote:
    On 2021-12-29 18:50:58 +0000, Lynn McGuire said:

    Over The Hedge: Can One Ever Eat Too Much Pie ?
    https://www.gocomics.com/overthehedge/2021/12/29

    No.

    Lynn

    Greatly depends on what's in the pie.

    For example, 'pumpkin pie' is simply digusting so even a tiny bit on
    the end of a toothpick is far too much.

    I love the pumpkin pie that my wife makes with her own custom spice
    mix. She made three for Christmas and I bought a pecan pie at HEB.

    Lynn

    Technically "pumpkin pie" isn't even a pie at all. The version you
    mostly see which has a pastry case filled with organge goo is really a
    "tart". Similarly with "lemon meriingue pie", "key lime pie", etc. also
    being tarts

    A tart is *usually* open-topped, while a real "pie" has a lid,
    *usually* pastry, on the top (can be with or without the lower case).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to Dorothy J Heydt on Fri Dec 31 09:30:51 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 2021-12-30 17:39:24 +0000, Dorothy J Heydt said:
    In article <u4qrsg1ofs6t5304674djqlt5m2b5d144e@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 20:32:35 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
    wrote:
    On 2021-12-29 18:50:58 +0000, Lynn McGuire said:

    Over The Hedge: Can One Ever Eat Too Much Pie ?
    https://www.gocomics.com/overthehedge/2021/12/29

    No.

    Lynn

    Greatly depends on what's in the pie.

    For example, 'pumpkin pie' is simply digusting so even a tiny bit on
    the end of a toothpick is far too much.

    De gustibus non est disputandum.

    Surprises in Amazon's efforts to provide canned fruit have exposed me
    to two fruits I never had when growing up but have heard about:
    gooseberries and rhubarb.

    I didn't like them; I suspect they are an acquired taste.

    But bake them into a pie with enough sugar and I suspect they would
    taste a whole lot better to me.

    Rhubarb pie (with, yes, sufficient sugar) is delectable. I have
    never encountered gooseberries.

    Usually a rhubarb pie or crumble has some other fruit (e.g. Apple)
    mixed in as well to cut done on the amount of sugar needed.

    The gooseberry has other names too, including "goldenberry" and "ground
    berry". Mostly they are used for jam (or "jelly" if you're a word
    redefining American), but can be used in pies too.

    The "kiwifruit" (incorrectly called just "kiwi" in many other
    countries, which is really a flightless bird) is more correctly called
    the "Chinese gooseberry" because it's a native plant of China later
    stolen and renamed by New Zealand growers for copyright purposes ...
    and they now selfishly complain that China is stealing their market for
    the fruit! :-\

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John W Kennedy@21:1/5 to Your Name on Thu Dec 30 17:12:58 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 12/30/21 3:30 PM, Your Name wrote:
    On 2021-12-30 17:39:24 +0000, Dorothy J Heydt said:
    In article <u4qrsg1ofs6t5304674djqlt5m2b5d144e@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person  <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 20:32:35 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
    wrote:
    On 2021-12-29 18:50:58 +0000, Lynn McGuire said:

    Over The Hedge: Can One Ever Eat Too Much Pie ?
    https://www.gocomics.com/overthehedge/2021/12/29

    No.

    Lynn

    Greatly depends on what's in the pie.

    For example, 'pumpkin pie' is simply digusting so even a tiny bit on
    the end of a toothpick is far too much.

    De gustibus non est disputandum.

    Surprises in Amazon's efforts to provide canned fruit have exposed me
    to two fruits I never had when growing up but have heard about:
    gooseberries and rhubarb.

    I didn't like them; I suspect they are an acquired taste.

    But bake them into a pie with enough sugar and I suspect they would
    taste a whole lot better to me.

    Rhubarb pie (with, yes, sufficient sugar) is delectable.  I have
    never encountered gooseberries.

    Usually a rhubarb pie or crumble has some other fruit (e.g. Apple) mixed
    in as well to cut done on the amount of sugar needed.

    The gooseberry has other names too, including "goldenberry" and "ground berry". Mostly they are used for jam (or "jelly" if you're a word redefining  American), but can be used in pies too.

    The use of “jelly” to designate a clarified fruit-based production, with
    no use of animal gelatin, is at least as old as the 1855 edition of Mrs. Acton’s “Modern Cookery”, published by Longman.

    The "kiwifruit" (incorrectly called just "kiwi" in many other countries, which is really a flightless bird) is more correctly called the "Chinese gooseberry" because it's a native plant of China later stolen and
    renamed by New Zealand growers for copyright purposes ... and they now selfishly complain that China is stealing their market for the fruit!   :-\



    --
    John W. Kennedy
    Algernon Burbage, Lord Roderick, Father Martin, Bishop Baldwin,
    King Pellinore, Captain Bailey, Merlin -- A Kingdom for a Stage!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John W Kennedy@21:1/5 to Dorothy J Heydt on Thu Dec 30 17:48:24 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 12/30/21 11:21 AM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
    In article <t8kqsgd8ktuuusif8snfpfetqnnjl10qpn@4ax.com>,
    Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
    On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 02:59:14 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
    Heydt) wrote:

    In article <sqiamj$qfs$1@dont-email.me>,
    Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
    Over The Hedge: Can One Ever Eat Too Much Pie ?
    https://www.gocomics.com/overthehedge/2021/12/29

    No.

    Well, diabetes....

    And there's fitting through doorways.

    Ernestine Schuman-Heink (1861-1936) was an operatic contralto of
    not inconsiderable mass (although judging by many photographs on
    Wikipedia, she wasn't all *that* huge. One of her common roles
    was the Witch in _Haensel und Gretel_. The tale is told that she
    was scheduled to perform with a large symphony orchestra; the
    size of the orchestra is relevant, because the many players and
    their music stands packed the available space.

    So she was trying to get from the wings to the front of the
    stage, and there just wasn't room. The conductor whispered to
    her, "Go sideways, Madame!"

    She answered, in her magnificent contralto that filled the entire
    hall, "Mein Gott, es gibt kein Sideways!"

    I really must insert here that, though she was no doubt zaftig, my
    teacher would lose ten pounds in a single performance. And “Hänsel und Gretel”, despite being popular at children’s matinees, is musically
    rather heavy. (Richard Strauss conducted at the première.)

    --
    John W. Kennedy
    Algernon Burbage, Lord Roderick, Father Martin, Bishop Baldwin,
    King Pellinore, Captain Bailey, Merlin -- A Kingdom for a Stage!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to John W Kennedy on Fri Dec 31 12:26:53 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 2021-12-30 22:12:58 +0000, John W Kennedy said:
    On 12/30/21 3:30 PM, Your Name wrote:
    On 2021-12-30 17:39:24 +0000, Dorothy J Heydt said:
    In article <u4qrsg1ofs6t5304674djqlt5m2b5d144e@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person  <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 20:32:35 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
    wrote:
    On 2021-12-29 18:50:58 +0000, Lynn McGuire said:

    Over The Hedge: Can One Ever Eat Too Much Pie ?
    https://www.gocomics.com/overthehedge/2021/12/29

    No.

    Lynn

    Greatly depends on what's in the pie.

    For example, 'pumpkin pie' is simply digusting so even a tiny bit on >>>>> the end of a toothpick is far too much.

    De gustibus non est disputandum.

    Surprises in Amazon's efforts to provide canned fruit have exposed me
    to two fruits I never had when growing up but have heard about:
    gooseberries and rhubarb.

    I didn't like them; I suspect they are an acquired taste.

    But bake them into a pie with enough sugar and I suspect they would
    taste a whole lot better to me.

    Rhubarb pie (with, yes, sufficient sugar) is delectable.  I have
    never encountered gooseberries.

    Usually a rhubarb pie or crumble has some other fruit (e.g. Apple)
    mixed in as well to cut done on the amount of sugar needed.

    The gooseberry has other names too, including "goldenberry" and "ground
    berry". Mostly they are used for jam (or "jelly" if you're a word
    redefining American), but can be used in pies too.

    The use of "jelly" to designate a clarified fruit-based production,
    with no use of animal gelatin, is at least as old as the 1855 edition
    of Mrs. Acton’s "Modern Cookery", published by Longman.

    "Jam" is a spreadable topping you put on toast or between layers of
    sponge cake. (I would say used on scones, but then that opens up yet
    another rabbit hole of misued American definitions).

    "Jelly" is a wobbly desert used in trifles, etc., although there are
    also things like mint "jelly" (as oposed to "mint sauce") which goes
    with roast lamb.

    Gooseberries can actually be used for both a jam and a jelly.



    The "kiwifruit" (incorrectly called just "kiwi" in many other
    countries, which is really a flightless bird) is more correctly called
    the "Chinese gooseberry" because it's a native plant of China later
    stolen and renamed by New Zealand growers for copyright purposes ...
    and they now selfishly complain that China is stealing their market for
    the fruit! :-\

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scott Lurndal@21:1/5 to Your Name on Fri Dec 31 01:54:22 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> writes:
    On 2021-12-30 22:12:58 +0000, John W Kennedy said:

    The gooseberry has other names too, including "goldenberry" and "ground
    berry". Mostly they are used for jam (or "jelly" if you're a word
    redefining American), but can be used in pies too.

    The use of "jelly" to designate a clarified fruit-based production,
    with no use of animal gelatin, is at least as old as the 1855 edition
    of Mrs. Acton’s "Modern Cookery", published by Longman.

    "Jam" is a spreadable topping you put on toast or between layers of
    sponge cake. (I would say used on scones, but then that opens up yet
    another rabbit hole of misued American definitions).

    "Jelly" is a wobbly desert used in trifles, etc., although there are
    also things like mint "jelly" (as oposed to "mint sauce") which goes
    with roast lamb.

    Jelly is made from juice only. Jam includes the fruit. Both are put on toast, bread, muffins or between layers of sponge cake.

    "Jelly is a clear fruit spread made from cooked fruit juice and
    sugar, and possibly pectin, which helps it gel and thicken. ...

    Jam is a thick spread made from fruit juice, chopped, crushed,
    or pured fruit, and sugar. Pectin may also be added to help it
    gel, but jams are usually looser than jellies."

    www.finecooking.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dorothy J Heydt@21:1/5 to YourName@YourISP.com on Fri Dec 31 02:43:23 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    In article <sql4tr$fs1$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
    Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
    On 2021-12-30 17:39:24 +0000, Dorothy J Heydt said:
    In article <u4qrsg1ofs6t5304674djqlt5m2b5d144e@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 20:32:35 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
    wrote:
    On 2021-12-29 18:50:58 +0000, Lynn McGuire said:

    Over The Hedge: Can One Ever Eat Too Much Pie ?
    https://www.gocomics.com/overthehedge/2021/12/29

    No.

    Lynn

    Greatly depends on what's in the pie.

    For example, 'pumpkin pie' is simply digusting so even a tiny bit on
    the end of a toothpick is far too much.

    De gustibus non est disputandum.

    Surprises in Amazon's efforts to provide canned fruit have exposed me
    to two fruits I never had when growing up but have heard about:
    gooseberries and rhubarb.

    I didn't like them; I suspect they are an acquired taste.

    But bake them into a pie with enough sugar and I suspect they would
    taste a whole lot better to me.

    Rhubarb pie (with, yes, sufficient sugar) is delectable. I have
    never encountered gooseberries.

    Usually a rhubarb pie or crumble has some other fruit (e.g. Apple)

    Strawberry, in my experience.

    mixed in as well to cut done on the amount of sugar needed.

    But unmixed (except with sugar) rhubarb, IMO, tastes better.

    The gooseberry has other names too, including "goldenberry" and "ground >berry". Mostly they are used for jam (or "jelly" if you're a word
    redefining American), but can be used in pies too.

    The "kiwifruit" (incorrectly called just "kiwi" in many other
    countries, which is really a flightless bird) is more correctly called
    the "Chinese gooseberry" because it's a native plant of China later
    stolen and renamed by New Zealand growers for copyright purposes ...
    and they now selfishly complain that China is stealing their market for
    the fruit! :-\

    Well, I like kiwifruit, except for the hassle involved in peeling
    it.

    --
    Dorothy J. Heydt
    Vallejo, California
    djheydt at gmail dot com
    Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to Scott Lurndal on Fri Dec 31 15:25:44 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 2021-12-31 01:54:22 +0000, Scott Lurndal said:

    Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> writes:
    On 2021-12-30 22:12:58 +0000, John W Kennedy said:

    The gooseberry has other names too, including "goldenberry" and "ground >>>> berry". Mostly they are used for jam (or "jelly" if you're a word
    redefining American), but can be used in pies too.

    The use of "jelly" to designate a clarified fruit-based production,
    with no use of animal gelatin, is at least as old as the 1855 edition
    of Mrs. Acton’s "Modern Cookery", published by Longman.

    "Jam" is a spreadable topping you put on toast or between layers of
    sponge cake. (I would say used on scones, but then that opens up yet
    another rabbit hole of misued American definitions).

    "Jelly" is a wobbly desert used in trifles, etc., although there are
    also things like mint "jelly" (as oposed to "mint sauce") which goes
    with roast lamb.

    Jelly is made from juice only. Jam includes the fruit. Both are put on toast, bread, muffins or between layers of sponge cake.

    "Jelly is a clear fruit spread made from cooked fruit juice and
    sugar, and possibly pectin, which helps it gel and thicken. ...

    Jam is a thick spread made from fruit juice, chopped, crushed,
    or pured fruit, and sugar. Pectin may also be added to help it
    gel, but jams are usually looser than jellies."

    www.finecooking.com

    Those are the silly American re-definitions. The actual *English*
    definitions are what I gave ... which is the entire point I started
    with. :-\

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dorothy J Heydt@21:1/5 to YourName@YourISP.com on Fri Dec 31 02:51:07 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    In article <sql46t$4kr$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
    Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

    Technically "pumpkin pie" isn't even a pie at all. The version you
    mostly see which has a pastry case filled with organge goo is really a >"tart". Similarly with "lemon meriingue pie", "key lime pie", etc. also
    being tarts

    A tart is *usually* open-topped, while a real "pie" has a lid,
    *usually* pastry, on the top (can be with or without the lower case).

    Does a lemon or Key Lime confection continue to be a tart when
    it's covered with meringue?

    --
    Dorothy J. Heydt
    Vallejo, California
    djheydt at gmail dot com
    Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dorothy J Heydt@21:1/5 to robertaw@drizzle.com on Fri Dec 31 02:48:25 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    In article <robertaw-7B1E65.10195830122021@news.individual.net>,
    Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
    In article <u4qrsg1ofs6t5304674djqlt5m2b5d144e@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:

    On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 20:32:35 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
    wrote:

    On 2021-12-29 18:50:58 +0000, Lynn McGuire said:

    Over The Hedge: Can One Ever Eat Too Much Pie ?
    https://www.gocomics.com/overthehedge/2021/12/29

    No.

    Lynn

    Greatly depends on what's in the pie.

    For example, 'pumpkin pie' is simply digusting so even a tiny bit on
    the end of a toothpick is far too much.

    De gustibus non est disputandum.

    Surprises in Amazon's efforts to provide canned fruit have exposed me
    to two fruits I never had when growing up but have heard about:
    gooseberries and rhubarb.


    Rhubarb is not a fruit.

    Depends on your definition. Botanically, rhubarb is not a fruit
    (it's a stem), and a tomato is.

    But if you define "fruit" as "something you put in a pie, with
    enough sweetening to make it palatable," then rhubarb fits that
    definition.

    The house that my parents bought when I was 13 had several acres of land >attached to it which included a rhubarb patch. Mom baked several rhubarb
    pies each summer.

    Ah. Now all I need is a time machine and an introduction to your
    Mom.

    --
    Dorothy J. Heydt
    Vallejo, California
    djheydt at gmail dot com
    Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dorothy J Heydt@21:1/5 to Dorothy J Heydt on Fri Dec 31 03:29:23 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    In article <r4yL97.Hwn@kithrup.com>,
    Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
    In article <sql46t$4kr$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
    Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

    Technically "pumpkin pie" isn't even a pie at all. The version you
    mostly see which has a pastry case filled with organge goo is really a >>"tart". Similarly with "lemon meriingue pie", "key lime pie", etc. also >>being tarts

    A tart is *usually* open-topped, while a real "pie" has a lid,
    *usually* pastry, on the top (can be with or without the lower case).

    Does a lemon or Key Lime confection continue to be a tart when
    it's covered with meringue?

    Moving slightly sideways:

    _Slate_ online mag is reprinting some of its best articles from
    the last 25 years. This one is about pies.

    https://slate.com/human-interest/2015/11/20-guests-19-pies-my-mothers-demented-glorious-thanksgiving-baking-extravaganza.html

    --
    Dorothy J. Heydt
    Vallejo, California
    djheydt at gmail dot com
    Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Titus G@21:1/5 to Your Name on Fri Dec 31 16:24:42 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 31/12/21 9:30 am, Your Name wrote:
    On 2021-12-30 17:39:24 +0000, Dorothy J Heydt said:
    In article <u4qrsg1ofs6t5304674djqlt5m2b5d144e@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person  <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 20:32:35 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
    wrote:
    On 2021-12-29 18:50:58 +0000, Lynn McGuire said:

    Over The Hedge: Can One Ever Eat Too Much Pie ?
    https://www.gocomics.com/overthehedge/2021/12/29

    No.

    Lynn

    Greatly depends on what's in the pie.

    For example, 'pumpkin pie' is simply digusting so even a tiny bit on
    the end of a toothpick is far too much.

    De gustibus non est disputandum.

    Surprises in Amazon's efforts to provide canned fruit have exposed me
    to two fruits I never had when growing up but have heard about:
    gooseberries and rhubarb.

    I didn't like them; I suspect they are an acquired taste.

    But bake them into a pie with enough sugar and I suspect they would
    taste a whole lot better to me.

    Rhubarb pie (with, yes, sufficient sugar) is delectable.  I have
    never encountered gooseberries.

    Usually a rhubarb pie or crumble has some other fruit (e.g. Apple) mixed
    in as well to cut done on the amount of sugar needed.

    The gooseberry has other names too, including "goldenberry" and "ground berry". Mostly they are used for jam (or "jelly" if you're a word redefining  American), but can be used in pies too.

    The "kiwifruit" (incorrectly called just "kiwi" in many other countries, which is really a flightless bird) is more correctly called the "Chinese gooseberry" because it's a native plant of China later stolen and
    renamed by New Zealand growers for copyright purposes ... and they now selfishly complain that China is stealing their market for the fruit!   :-\

    IIRC there was more than just selfish complaint; it may have gone to
    some court or arbitration. I wouldn't say stolen from China. Back in the
    day when Chinese gooseberries arrived in New Zealand, no one would
    regard it as theft. But New Zealand growers developed a new copyrighted
    strain of the Chinese gooseberry which was technically stolen by Chinese growers. ( Good on them. Imagine the stupidity of someone owning the
    copyright for the potato! Another example of Capitalism's desire for
    control rather competition.)

    I never see nor hear of gooseberries any more though they were once a
    common and popular home garden bush, perhaps because they were hardy and prolific producers. I remember eating them raw after removing the
    prickles and tail. Delicious. Kiwifruit production requires much more
    attention and is a commercial operation in contrast.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ted Nolan @21:1/5 to noone@nowhere.com on Fri Dec 31 03:48:55 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    In article <sqltt2$nqh$1@dont-email.me>, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote: >On 31/12/21 3:43 pm, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:


    Well, I like kiwifruit, except for the hassle involved in peeling
    it.


    Bifurcate it through its equatorial circumference and dig out the good
    bits with a spoon.

    And the Golden Kiwi apparently can be eaten peel & all.
    --
    columbiaclosings.com
    What's not in Columbia anymore..

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Titus G@21:1/5 to Dorothy J Heydt on Fri Dec 31 16:37:05 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 31/12/21 3:43 pm, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:


    Well, I like kiwifruit, except for the hassle involved in peeling
    it.


    Bifurcate it through its equatorial circumference and dig out the good
    bits with a spoon.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Titus G@21:1/5 to All on Fri Dec 31 18:54:19 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 31/12/21 4:48 pm, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
    In article <sqltt2$nqh$1@dont-email.me>, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
    On 31/12/21 3:43 pm, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:


    Well, I like kiwifruit, except for the hassle involved in peeling
    it.


    Bifurcate it through its equatorial circumference and dig out the good
    bits with a spoon.

    And the Golden Kiwi apparently can be eaten peel & all.


    Yes. I have never eaten the Golden variety and seldom have the green. My preference is usually for an apple for texture, taste and to keep the
    doctor away.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to Dorothy J Heydt on Fri Dec 31 19:39:40 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 2021-12-31 02:51:07 +0000, Dorothy J Heydt said:
    In article <sql46t$4kr$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
    Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

    Technically "pumpkin pie" isn't even a pie at all. The version you
    mostly see which has a pastry case filled with organge goo is really a
    "tart". Similarly with "lemon meriingue pie", "key lime pie", etc. also
    being tarts

    A tart is *usually* open-topped, while a real "pie" has a lid,
    *usually* pastry, on the top (can be with or without the lower case).

    Does a lemon or Key Lime confection continue to be a tart when
    it's covered with meringue?

    It gets a bit tricky, but they're probably tarts, same as with ones
    with pastry lattices on top.

    Another less obvious visual difference is the pastry itself - pies tend
    to be flaky pastry while tarts are more crumbly pastry. <https://greatist.com/eat/what-is-the-difference-between-a-pie-and-a-tart#recipes>


    There are exceptions, as always. Here in New Zealand you can get a
    "Potato Top Pie" which is a pastry case filled with a mince meat mix
    and mashed potato covering on top ... no pastry lid. <https://kiddscakes.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Kidds-Famous-Pies-Potato-Top-Pie.jpg>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to Ted Nolan on Fri Dec 31 19:27:33 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 2021-12-31 03:48:55 +0000, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan said:
    In article <sqltt2$nqh$1@dont-email.me>, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
    On 31/12/21 3:43 pm, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

    Well, I like kiwifruit, except for the hassle involved in peeling
    it.

    Bifurcate it through its equatorial circumference and dig out the good
    bits with a spoon.

    And the Golden Kiwi apparently can be eaten peel & all.

    You can actually eat the peel (wash it first!) of any kiwifruit, but
    the "furry" texture is off-putting to most people.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to Titus G on Fri Dec 31 19:26:04 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 2021-12-31 03:37:05 +0000, Titus G said:
    On 31/12/21 3:43 pm, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

    Well, I like kiwifruit, except for the hassle involved in peeling
    it.

    Bifurcate it through its equatorial circumference and dig out the good
    bits with a spoon.

    Yep, that's the usual method when eating it 'whole', but if you're
    using it for something else (e.g. cake decoration) then you do have to
    peel it and slice it for best results.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scott Lurndal@21:1/5 to Titus G on Fri Dec 31 15:36:57 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> writes:
    But New Zealand growers developed a new copyrighted
    strain of the Chinese gooseberry which was technically stolen by Chinese >growers. ( Good on them. Imagine the stupidity of someone owning the >copyright for the potato! Another example of Capitalism's desire for
    control rather competition.)

    Yeah, imagine that:

    https://patents.google.com/patent/US20050081269A1/en https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/india-revokes-patent-pepsicos-lays-potatoes-2021-12-03/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scott Lurndal@21:1/5 to Your Name on Fri Dec 31 15:29:42 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> writes:
    On 2021-12-31 01:54:22 +0000, Scott Lurndal said:

    Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> writes:
    On 2021-12-30 22:12:58 +0000, John W Kennedy said:

    The gooseberry has other names too, including "goldenberry" and "ground >>>>> berry". Mostly they are used for jam (or "jelly" if you're a word
    redefining American), but can be used in pies too.

    The use of "jelly" to designate a clarified fruit-based production,
    with no use of animal gelatin, is at least as old as the 1855 edition
    of Mrs. Acton’s "Modern Cookery", published by Longman.

    "Jam" is a spreadable topping you put on toast or between layers of
    sponge cake. (I would say used on scones, but then that opens up yet
    another rabbit hole of misued American definitions).

    "Jelly" is a wobbly desert used in trifles, etc., although there are
    also things like mint "jelly" (as oposed to "mint sauce") which goes
    with roast lamb.

    Jelly is made from juice only. Jam includes the fruit. Both are put on
    toast, bread, muffins or between layers of sponge cake.

    "Jelly is a clear fruit spread made from cooked fruit juice and
    sugar, and possibly pectin, which helps it gel and thicken. ...

    Jam is a thick spread made from fruit juice, chopped, crushed,
    or pured fruit, and sugar. Pectin may also be added to help it
    gel, but jams are usually looser than jellies."

    www.finecooking.com

    Those are the silly American re-definitions. The actual *English*
    definitions are what I gave ... which is the entire point I started
    with. :-\

    The sun set decades ago. Get over it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ted Nolan @21:1/5 to Dorothy J Heydt on Fri Dec 31 16:50:48 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    In article <r4zMF6.vx@kithrup.com>,
    Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
    In article <j37ct7Fj56cU1@mid.individual.net>,
    Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
    In article <sqltt2$nqh$1@dont-email.me>, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote: >>>On 31/12/21 3:43 pm, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:


    Well, I like kiwifruit, except for the hassle involved in peeling
    it.


    Bifurcate it through its equatorial circumference and dig out the good >>>bits with a spoon.

    And the Golden Kiwi apparently can be eaten peel & all.

    Hmm. I don't think I've ever seen one of those.


    They seem to be less common than the fuzzy ones, but I do see them
    at the local "Fresh Market" (which is a little upscale, but not
    Whole Foods by any means) from time to time. They are less fuzzy
    and have kind of a "beak" on one end. Pretty tasty as well.
    --
    columbiaclosings.com
    What's not in Columbia anymore..

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Quinn C@21:1/5 to All on Fri Dec 31 11:20:25 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    * Your Name:

    On 2021-12-31 01:54:22 +0000, Scott Lurndal said:

    Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> writes:
    On 2021-12-30 22:12:58 +0000, John W Kennedy said:

    The gooseberry has other names too, including "goldenberry" and "ground >>>>> berry". Mostly they are used for jam (or "jelly" if you're a word
    redefining American), but can be used in pies too.

    The use of "jelly" to designate a clarified fruit-based production,
    with no use of animal gelatin, is at least as old as the 1855 edition
    of Mrs. Acton’s "Modern Cookery", published by Longman.

    "Jam" is a spreadable topping you put on toast or between layers of
    sponge cake. (I would say used on scones, but then that opens up yet
    another rabbit hole of misued American definitions).

    "Jelly" is a wobbly desert used in trifles, etc., although there are
    also things like mint "jelly" (as oposed to "mint sauce") which goes
    with roast lamb.

    Jelly is made from juice only. Jam includes the fruit. Both are put on
    toast, bread, muffins or between layers of sponge cake.

    "Jelly is a clear fruit spread made from cooked fruit juice and
    sugar, and possibly pectin, which helps it gel and thicken. ...

    Jam is a thick spread made from fruit juice, chopped, crushed,
    or pured fruit, and sugar. Pectin may also be added to help it
    gel, but jams are usually looser than jellies."

    www.finecooking.com

    Those are the silly American re-definitions. The actual *English*
    definitions are what I gave ... which is the entire point I started
    with. :-\

    And you're fine with jelly by the above definition not having any name?
    because you haven't suggested one.

    --
    Do not they speak false English ... that doth not speak thou to one,
    and what ever he be, Father, Mother, King, or Judge, is he not a
    Novice, and Unmannerly, and an Ideot, and a Fool, that speaks Your
    to one, which is not to be spoken to a singular, but to many?
    -- George Fox (1660)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dorothy J Heydt@21:1/5 to All on Fri Dec 31 16:13:54 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    In article <j37ct7Fj56cU1@mid.individual.net>,
    Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
    In article <sqltt2$nqh$1@dont-email.me>, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote: >>On 31/12/21 3:43 pm, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:


    Well, I like kiwifruit, except for the hassle involved in peeling
    it.


    Bifurcate it through its equatorial circumference and dig out the good
    bits with a spoon.

    And the Golden Kiwi apparently can be eaten peel & all.

    Hmm. I don't think I've ever seen one of those.

    --
    Dorothy J. Heydt
    Vallejo, California
    djheydt at gmail dot com
    Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul S Person@21:1/5 to lispamateur@crommatograph.info on Fri Dec 31 09:30:26 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On Fri, 31 Dec 2021 11:20:25 -0500, Quinn C
    <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:

    * Your Name:

    On 2021-12-31 01:54:22 +0000, Scott Lurndal said:

    Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> writes:
    On 2021-12-30 22:12:58 +0000, John W Kennedy said:

    The gooseberry has other names too, including "goldenberry" and "ground >>>>>> berry". Mostly they are used for jam (or "jelly" if you're a word
    redefining American), but can be used in pies too.

    The use of "jelly"? to designate a clarified fruit-based production, >>>>> with no use of animal gelatin, is at least as old as the 1855 edition >>>>> of Mrs. Acton’s "Modern Cookery", published by Longman.

    "Jam" is a spreadable topping you put on toast or between layers of
    sponge cake. (I would say used on scones, but then that opens up yet
    another rabbit hole of misued American definitions).

    "Jelly" is a wobbly desert used in trifles, etc., although there are
    also things like mint "jelly" (as oposed to "mint sauce") which goes
    with roast lamb.

    Jelly is made from juice only. Jam includes the fruit. Both are put on >>> toast, bread, muffins or between layers of sponge cake.

    "Jelly is a clear fruit spread made from cooked fruit juice and
    sugar, and possibly pectin, which helps it gel and thicken. ...

    Jam is a thick spread made from fruit juice, chopped, crushed,
    or pured fruit, and sugar. Pectin may also be added to help it
    gel, but jams are usually looser than jellies."

    www.finecooking.com

    Those are the silly American re-definitions. The actual *English*
    definitions are what I gave ... which is the entire point I started
    with. :-\

    And you're fine with jelly by the above definition not having any name? >because you haven't suggested one.

    It occurs to me, reviewing the above, that the "English" definitions
    are about /how it is used/ while the "American" definitions are about
    /how it is made/.

    They can both be valid.
    --
    "I begin to envy Petronius."
    "I have envied him long since."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul S Person@21:1/5 to Heydt on Fri Dec 31 09:22:53 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 17:39:24 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
    Heydt) wrote:

    In article <u4qrsg1ofs6t5304674djqlt5m2b5d144e@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 20:32:35 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
    wrote:

    On 2021-12-29 18:50:58 +0000, Lynn McGuire said:

    Over The Hedge: Can One Ever Eat Too Much Pie ?
    https://www.gocomics.com/overthehedge/2021/12/29

    No.

    Lynn

    Greatly depends on what's in the pie.

    For example, 'pumpkin pie' is simply digusting so even a tiny bit on
    the end of a toothpick is far too much.

    De gustibus non est disputandum.

    Surprises in Amazon's efforts to provide canned fruit have exposed me
    to two fruits I never had when growing up but have heard about: >>gooseberries and rhubarb.

    I didn't like them; I suspect they are an acquired taste.

    But bake them into a pie with enough sugar and I suspect they would
    taste a whole lot better to me.

    Rhubarb pie (with, yes, sufficient sugar) is delectable. I have
    never encountered gooseberries.

    I knew gooseberry pie from a George Pal cartoon, "Jasper and the
    Haunted House". Which isn't nearly as bad as might be expected from
    its age, at least until you reach the end.
    --
    "I begin to envy Petronius."
    "I have envied him long since."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ted Nolan @21:1/5 to psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid on Fri Dec 31 17:32:37 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    In article <mffusglud2e5gq2bq4nrclfki1v5kkdf7f@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Fri, 31 Dec 2021 11:20:25 -0500, Quinn C
    <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:

    * Your Name:

    On 2021-12-31 01:54:22 +0000, Scott Lurndal said:

    Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> writes:
    On 2021-12-30 22:12:58 +0000, John W Kennedy said:

    The gooseberry has other names too, including "goldenberry" and "ground >>>>>>> berry". Mostly they are used for jam (or "jelly" if you're a word >>>>>>> redefining American), but can be used in pies too.

    The use of "jelly"? to designate a clarified fruit-based production, >>>>>> with no use of animal gelatin, is at least as old as the 1855 edition >>>>>> of Mrs. Acton’s "Modern Cookery", published by Longman.

    "Jam" is a spreadable topping you put on toast or between layers of
    sponge cake. (I would say used on scones, but then that opens up yet >>>>> another rabbit hole of misued American definitions).

    "Jelly" is a wobbly desert used in trifles, etc., although there are >>>>> also things like mint "jelly" (as oposed to "mint sauce") which goes >>>>> with roast lamb.

    Jelly is made from juice only. Jam includes the fruit. Both are put on >>>> toast, bread, muffins or between layers of sponge cake.

    "Jelly is a clear fruit spread made from cooked fruit juice and
    sugar, and possibly pectin, which helps it gel and thicken. ...

    Jam is a thick spread made from fruit juice, chopped, crushed,
    or pured fruit, and sugar. Pectin may also be added to help it
    gel, but jams are usually looser than jellies."

    www.finecooking.com

    Those are the silly American re-definitions. The actual *English*
    definitions are what I gave ... which is the entire point I started
    with. :-\

    And you're fine with jelly by the above definition not having any name? >>because you haven't suggested one.

    It occurs to me, reviewing the above, that the "English" definitions
    are about /how it is used/ while the "American" definitions are about
    /how it is made/.

    They can both be valid.

    And remember the test: It must be jelly because..
    --
    columbiaclosings.com
    What's not in Columbia anymore..

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul S Person@21:1/5 to robertaw@drizzle.com on Fri Dec 31 09:41:15 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 10:19:58 -0800, Robert Woodward
    <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:

    In article <u4qrsg1ofs6t5304674djqlt5m2b5d144e@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:

    On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 20:32:35 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
    wrote:

    On 2021-12-29 18:50:58 +0000, Lynn McGuire said:

    Over The Hedge: Can One Ever Eat Too Much Pie ?
    https://www.gocomics.com/overthehedge/2021/12/29

    No.

    Lynn

    Greatly depends on what's in the pie.

    For example, 'pumpkin pie' is simply digusting so even a tiny bit on
    the end of a toothpick is far too much.

    De gustibus non est disputandum.

    Surprises in Amazon's efforts to provide canned fruit have exposed me
    to two fruits I never had when growing up but have heard about:
    gooseberries and rhubarb.


    Rhubarb is not a fruit.

    I wondered about that while I was eating it.

    It had a taste reminiscent of okra, definitely a vegetable, which I
    bought once by mistake (I was one-box-off from the lima beans).

    Both made me gag a bit. But, again, anyone who grew up eating these
    would very likely have a completely different opinon.

    I didn't like them; I suspect they are an acquired taste.

    But bake them into a pie with enough sugar and I suspect they would
    taste a whole lot better to me.

    The house that my parents bought when I was 13 had several acres of land >attached to it which included a rhubarb patch. Mom baked several rhubarb
    pies each summer.
    --
    "I begin to envy Petronius."
    "I have envied him long since."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul S Person@21:1/5 to All on Fri Dec 31 09:36:48 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On Fri, 31 Dec 2021 19:27:33 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
    wrote:

    On 2021-12-31 03:48:55 +0000, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan said:
    In article <sqltt2$nqh$1@dont-email.me>, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote: >>> On 31/12/21 3:43 pm, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

    Well, I like kiwifruit, except for the hassle involved in peeling
    it.

    Bifurcate it through its equatorial circumference and dig out the good
    bits with a spoon.

    And the Golden Kiwi apparently can be eaten peel & all.

    You can actually eat the peel (wash it first!) of any kiwifruit, but
    the "furry" texture is off-putting to most people.

    When I was growing up, my mother engaged in "home canning".

    For those unaware of this, it was a major enterprise, involving things
    to can, glass jars with vacuum-seal tops, lots of boiling water, and
    lots of of sugar. She did this in the fall; we ate the results into
    the next spring if not summer.

    One of things she canned was called "Queen-of-All Preserves". I loved
    it. Well, given the amount of sugar, why not? This was a compendium of
    small bits and pieces of various fruits. I was appalled to learn that
    one of my favorite pieces was, in fact -- orange peel.

    So I am well able to imagine that a gooseberry pie, if it had enough
    sugar in it when it was cooked, would be something I might like.
    --
    "I begin to envy Petronius."
    "I have envied him long since."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ted Nolan @21:1/5 to psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid on Fri Dec 31 17:31:25 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    In article <eseusg9v4kbv1bao0vu94g4dgf7uegpm41@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 17:39:24 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
    Heydt) wrote:

    In article <u4qrsg1ofs6t5304674djqlt5m2b5d144e@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 20:32:35 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> >>>wrote:

    On 2021-12-29 18:50:58 +0000, Lynn McGuire said:

    Over The Hedge: Can One Ever Eat Too Much Pie ?
    https://www.gocomics.com/overthehedge/2021/12/29

    No.

    Lynn

    Greatly depends on what's in the pie.

    For example, 'pumpkin pie' is simply digusting so even a tiny bit on >>>>the end of a toothpick is far too much.

    De gustibus non est disputandum.

    Surprises in Amazon's efforts to provide canned fruit have exposed me
    to two fruits I never had when growing up but have heard about: >>>gooseberries and rhubarb.

    I didn't like them; I suspect they are an acquired taste.

    But bake them into a pie with enough sugar and I suspect they would
    taste a whole lot better to me.

    Rhubarb pie (with, yes, sufficient sugar) is delectable. I have
    never encountered gooseberries.

    I knew gooseberry pie from a George Pal cartoon, "Jasper and the
    Haunted House". Which isn't nearly as bad as might be expected from
    its age, at least until you reach the end.

    The Jasper shorts were "Puppetoons" not cartoons. You couldn't
    show them today probably. I like the non-Jasper Puppetoon "Tulips
    Shall Grow":

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1QUUmShhMM
    --
    columbiaclosings.com
    What's not in Columbia anymore..

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From J. Clarke@21:1/5 to tednolan on Fri Dec 31 13:29:58 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 31 Dec 2021 17:31:25 GMT, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
    <tednolan>) wrote:

    In article <eseusg9v4kbv1bao0vu94g4dgf7uegpm41@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 17:39:24 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
    Heydt) wrote:

    In article <u4qrsg1ofs6t5304674djqlt5m2b5d144e@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 20:32:35 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> >>>>wrote:

    On 2021-12-29 18:50:58 +0000, Lynn McGuire said:

    Over The Hedge: Can One Ever Eat Too Much Pie ?
    https://www.gocomics.com/overthehedge/2021/12/29

    No.

    Lynn

    Greatly depends on what's in the pie.

    For example, 'pumpkin pie' is simply digusting so even a tiny bit on >>>>>the end of a toothpick is far too much.

    De gustibus non est disputandum.

    Surprises in Amazon's efforts to provide canned fruit have exposed me >>>>to two fruits I never had when growing up but have heard about: >>>>gooseberries and rhubarb.

    I didn't like them; I suspect they are an acquired taste.

    But bake them into a pie with enough sugar and I suspect they would >>>>taste a whole lot better to me.

    Rhubarb pie (with, yes, sufficient sugar) is delectable. I have
    never encountered gooseberries.

    I knew gooseberry pie from a George Pal cartoon, "Jasper and the
    Haunted House". Which isn't nearly as bad as might be expected from
    its age, at least until you reach the end.

    The Jasper shorts were "Puppetoons" not cartoons. You couldn't
    show them today probably.

    I can see why they'd be offensive, but funny nonetheless, although
    creatures of their time. I wonder how many kids today would get the
    haunted house not being haunted anymore because the haunts had all
    been drafted?

    <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPNbjJFrOx8>

    I like the non-Jasper Puppetoon "Tulips
    Shall Grow":

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1QUUmShhMM

    That was a good one. Seems antiwar now instead of anti Nazi. I'll
    never hear the word "screwball" without seeing that image. The
    goose-stepping goose was a nice touch.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scott Lurndal@21:1/5 to Paul S Person on Fri Dec 31 18:37:32 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> writes:
    On Fri, 31 Dec 2021 19:27:33 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
    wrote:

    On 2021-12-31 03:48:55 +0000, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan said:
    In article <sqltt2$nqh$1@dont-email.me>, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
    On 31/12/21 3:43 pm, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

    Well, I like kiwifruit, except for the hassle involved in peeling
    it.

    Bifurcate it through its equatorial circumference and dig out the good >>>> bits with a spoon.

    And the Golden Kiwi apparently can be eaten peel & all.

    You can actually eat the peel (wash it first!) of any kiwifruit, but
    the "furry" texture is off-putting to most people.

    When I was growing up, my mother engaged in "home canning".

    For those unaware of this, it was a major enterprise, involving things
    to can, glass jars with vacuum-seal tops, lots of boiling water, and
    lots of of sugar. She did this in the fall; we ate the results into
    the next spring if not summer.

    It's not like home canning is extinct - I'm currently enjoying
    a nice cherry-plum (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prunus_cerasifera)
    jam on my morning english muffin.

    Over a 100 jars of cherry-plum jam and grape jelly, all from the
    back yard.


    One of things she canned was called "Queen-of-All Preserves". I loved
    it. Well, given the amount of sugar, why not? This was a compendium of
    small bits and pieces of various fruits. I was appalled to learn that
    one of my favorite pieces was, in fact -- orange peel.

    Candied orange peel is delicious.


    So I am well able to imagine that a gooseberry pie, if it had enough
    sugar in it when it was cooked, would be something I might like.

    I certainly enjoyed them growing up. Not a common fruit where
    I live now.

    My grandmother made an excellent rhubarb crumble.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to Titus G on Sat Jan 1 09:27:13 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 2021-12-31 05:54:19 +0000, Titus G said:
    On 31/12/21 4:48 pm, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
    In article <sqltt2$nqh$1@dont-email.me>, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote: >>> On 31/12/21 3:43 pm, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

    Well, I like kiwifruit, except for the hassle involved in peeling
    it.

    Bifurcate it through its equatorial circumference and dig out the good
    bits with a spoon.

    And the Golden Kiwi apparently can be eaten peel & all.

    Yes. I have never eaten the Golden variety and seldom have the green. My preference is usually for an apple for texture, taste and to keep the
    doctor away.

    A 'Chineses gooseberry' (kiwifruit) a day keeps the accupunturist away. ;-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to Scott Lurndal on Sat Jan 1 10:03:21 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 2021-12-31 18:37:32 +0000, Scott Lurndal said:
    Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> writes:
    On Fri, 31 Dec 2021 19:27:33 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
    wrote:
    On 2021-12-31 03:48:55 +0000, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan said:
    In article <sqltt2$nqh$1@dont-email.me>, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
    On 31/12/21 3:43 pm, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

    Well, I like kiwifruit, except for the hassle involved in peeling
    it.

    Bifurcate it through its equatorial circumference and dig out the good >>>>> bits with a spoon.

    And the Golden Kiwi apparently can be eaten peel & all.

    You can actually eat the peel (wash it first!) of any kiwifruit, but
    the "furry" texture is off-putting to most people.

    When I was growing up, my mother engaged in "home canning".

    For those unaware of this, it was a major enterprise, involving things
    to can, glass jars with vacuum-seal tops, lots of boiling water, and
    lots of of sugar. She did this in the fall; we ate the results into
    the next spring if not summer.

    It's not like home canning is extinct - I'm currently enjoying
    a nice cherry-plum (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prunus_cerasifera)
    jam on my morning english muffin.

    Over a 100 jars of cherry-plum jam and grape jelly, all from the
    back yard.

    One of things she canned was called "Queen-of-All Preserves". I loved
    it. Well, given the amount of sugar, why not? This was a compendium of
    small bits and pieces of various fruits. I was appalled to learn that
    one of my favorite pieces was, in fact -- orange peel.

    Candied orange peel is delicious.

    So I am well able to imagine that a gooseberry pie, if it had enough
    sugar in it when it was cooked, would be something I might like.

    I certainly enjoyed them growing up. Not a common fruit where
    I live now.

    My grandmother made an excellent rhubarb crumble.

    Especially with custard. :-)

    There's a UK kids' animated series called "Roobarb and Custard" ...
    another in the massively long line of bad choices that "help" kids
    learn to spell, but "Rhubarb and Custard" is probably not
    copyrightable. :-\
    <https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071043/>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to Ted Nolan on Sat Jan 1 10:14:42 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 2021-12-31 16:50:48 +0000, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan said:
    In article <r4zMF6.vx@kithrup.com>,
    Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
    In article <j37ct7Fj56cU1@mid.individual.net>,
    Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
    In article <sqltt2$nqh$1@dont-email.me>, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
    On 31/12/21 3:43 pm, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

    Well, I like kiwifruit, except for the hassle involved in peeling
    it.

    Bifurcate it through its equatorial circumference and dig out the good >>>> bits with a spoon.

    And the Golden Kiwi apparently can be eaten peel & all.

    Hmm. I don't think I've ever seen one of those.

    They seem to be less common than the fuzzy ones, but I do see them
    at the local "Fresh Market" (which is a little upscale, but not
    Whole Foods by any means) from time to time. They are less fuzzy
    and have kind of a "beak" on one end. Pretty tasty as well.

    There are at four main types of Kiwifruit - green, golden, red, and
    purple. Within that there are at least 50 sub-varities.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to Quinn C on Sat Jan 1 10:07:30 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 2021-12-31 16:20:25 +0000, Quinn C said:
    * Your Name:
    On 2021-12-31 01:54:22 +0000, Scott Lurndal said:
    Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> writes:
    On 2021-12-30 22:12:58 +0000, John W Kennedy said:

    The gooseberry has other names too, including "goldenberry" and "ground >>>>>> berry". Mostly they are used for jam (or "jelly" if you're a word
    redefining American), but can be used in pies too.

    The use of "jelly" to designate a clarified fruit-based production, >>>>> with no use of animal gelatin, is at least as old as the 1855 edition >>>>> of Mrs. Acton’s "Modern Cookery", published by Longman.

    "Jam" is a spreadable topping you put on toast or between layers of
    sponge cake. (I would say used on scones, but then that opens up yet
    another rabbit hole of misued American definitions).

    "Jelly" is a wobbly desert used in trifles, etc., although there are
    also things like mint "jelly" (as oposed to "mint sauce") which goes
    with roast lamb.

    Jelly is made from juice only. Jam includes the fruit. Both are put on >>> toast, bread, muffins or between layers of sponge cake.

    "Jelly is a clear fruit spread made from cooked fruit juice and
    sugar, and possibly pectin, which helps it gel and thicken. ...

    Jam is a thick spread made from fruit juice, chopped, crushed,
    or pured fruit, and sugar. Pectin may also be added to help it
    gel, but jams are usually looser than jellies."

    www.finecooking.com

    Those are the silly American re-definitions. The actual *English*
    definitions are what I gave ... which is the entire point I started
    with. :-\

    And you're fine with jelly by the above definition not having any name? because you haven't suggested one.

    They're the same thing, so that would still be "jam" ... simply jam
    with and without "bits" in it. :-p

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dorothy J Heydt@21:1/5 to psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid on Sat Jan 1 00:16:20 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    In article <9kfusg1oaiu2qib4fkn4gf3vcm1695sp8d@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Fri, 31 Dec 2021 19:27:33 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
    wrote:

    On 2021-12-31 03:48:55 +0000, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan said:
    In article <sqltt2$nqh$1@dont-email.me>, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
    On 31/12/21 3:43 pm, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

    Well, I like kiwifruit, except for the hassle involved in peeling
    it.

    Bifurcate it through its equatorial circumference and dig out the good >>>> bits with a spoon.

    And the Golden Kiwi apparently can be eaten peel & all.

    You can actually eat the peel (wash it first!) of any kiwifruit, but
    the "furry" texture is off-putting to most people.

    When I was growing up, my mother engaged in "home canning".

    For those unaware of this, it was a major enterprise, involving things
    to can, glass jars with vacuum-seal tops, lots of boiling water, and
    lots of of sugar. She did this in the fall; we ate the results into
    the next spring if not summer.

    One of things she canned was called "Queen-of-All Preserves". I loved
    it. Well, given the amount of sugar, why not? This was a compendium of
    small bits and pieces of various fruits. I was appalled to learn that
    one of my favorite pieces was, in fact -- orange peel.

    I have a fruitcake recipe (that I haven't made in years) that
    contains both candied orange peel and ditto lemon peel. Also
    candied red cherries, green cherries, pineapple chunks, a pound
    of each. And two pounds of pecans.

    --
    Dorothy J. Heydt
    Vallejo, California
    djheydt at gmail dot com
    Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John W Kennedy@21:1/5 to Your Name on Fri Dec 31 19:40:13 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 12/30/21 6:26 PM, Your Name wrote:
    On 2021-12-30 22:12:58 +0000, John W Kennedy said:
    On 12/30/21 3:30 PM, Your Name wrote:
    On 2021-12-30 17:39:24 +0000, Dorothy J Heydt said:
    In article <u4qrsg1ofs6t5304674djqlt5m2b5d144e@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person  <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 20:32:35 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> >>>>> wrote:
    On 2021-12-29 18:50:58 +0000, Lynn McGuire said:

    Over The Hedge: Can One Ever Eat Too Much Pie ?
    https://www.gocomics.com/overthehedge/2021/12/29

    No.

    Lynn

    Greatly depends on what's in the pie.

    For example, 'pumpkin pie' is simply digusting so even a tiny bit on >>>>>> the end of a toothpick is far too much.

    De gustibus non est disputandum.

    Surprises in Amazon's efforts to provide canned fruit have exposed me >>>>> to two fruits I never had when growing up but have heard about:
    gooseberries and rhubarb.

    I didn't like them; I suspect they are an acquired taste.

    But bake them into a pie with enough sugar and I suspect they would
    taste a whole lot better to me.

    Rhubarb pie (with, yes, sufficient sugar) is delectable.  I have
    never encountered gooseberries.

    Usually a rhubarb pie or crumble has some other fruit (e.g. Apple)
    mixed in as well to cut done on the amount of sugar needed.

    The gooseberry has other names too, including "goldenberry" and
    "ground berry". Mostly they are used for jam (or "jelly" if you're a
    word redefining  American), but can be used in pies too.

    The use of "jelly"€ to designate a clarified fruit-based production,
    with no use of animal gelatin, is at least as old as the 1855 edition
    of Mrs. Acton’s "€œModern Cookery", published by Longman.

    "Jam" is a spreadable topping you put on toast or between layers of
    sponge cake. (I would say used on scones, but then that opens up yet
    another rabbit hole of misued American definitions).

    "Jelly" is a wobbly desert used in trifles, etc., although there are
    also things like mint "jelly" (as oposed to "mint sauce") which goes
    with roast lamb.

    Gooseberries can actually be used for both a jam and a jelly.

    ”You’re just contradicting everything I say! That's not an argument!”

    The "kiwifruit" (incorrectly called just "kiwi" in many other
    countries, which is really a flightless bird) is more correctly
    called the "Chinese gooseberry" because it's a native plant of China
    later stolen and renamed by New Zealand growers for copyright
    purposes ... and they now selfishly complain that China is stealing
    their market for the fruit!  :-\




    --
    John W. Kennedy
    Algernon Burbage, Lord Roderick, Father Martin, Bishop Baldwin,
    King Pellinore, Captain Bailey, Merlin -- A Kingdom for a Stage!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John W Kennedy@21:1/5 to Your Name on Fri Dec 31 19:43:06 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 12/30/21 9:25 PM, Your Name wrote:
    On 2021-12-31 01:54:22 +0000, Scott Lurndal said:

    Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> writes:
    On 2021-12-30 22:12:58 +0000, John W Kennedy said:

    The gooseberry has other names too, including "goldenberry" and
    "ground
    berry". Mostly they are used for jam (or "jelly" if you're a word
    redefining  American), but can be used in pies too.

    The use of "jelly"€ to designate a clarified fruit-based production, >>>> with no use of animal gelatin, is at least as old as the 1855 edition
    of Mrs. Acton’s "€œModern Cookery", published by Longman.

    "Jam" is a spreadable topping you put on toast or between layers of
    sponge cake. (I would say used on scones, but then that opens up yet
    another rabbit hole of misued American definitions).

    "Jelly" is a wobbly desert used in trifles, etc., although there are
    also things like mint "jelly" (as oposed to "mint sauce") which goes
    with roast lamb.

    Jelly is made from juice only.  Jam includes the fruit.   Both are put on >> toast, bread, muffins or between layers of sponge cake.

      "Jelly is a clear fruit spread made from cooked fruit juice and
       sugar, and possibly pectin, which helps it gel and thicken. ...

       Jam is a thick spread made from fruit juice, chopped, crushed,
       or puréed fruit, and sugar. Pectin may also be added to help it
       gel, but jams are usually looser than jellies."

      www.finecooking.com

    Those are the silly American re-definitions. The actual *English*
    definitions are what I gave ... which is the entire point I started
    with.   :-\

    Eliza Acton wasn’t an American.


    --
    John W. Kennedy
    Algernon Burbage, Lord Roderick, Father Martin, Bishop Baldwin,
    King Pellinore, Captain Bailey, Merlin -- A Kingdom for a Stage!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John W Kennedy@21:1/5 to Your Name on Fri Dec 31 19:48:52 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 12/31/21 4:07 PM, Your Name wrote:
    On 2021-12-31 16:20:25 +0000, Quinn C said:
    * Your Name:
    On 2021-12-31 01:54:22 +0000, Scott Lurndal said:
    Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> writes:
    On 2021-12-30 22:12:58 +0000, John W Kennedy said:

    The gooseberry has other names too, including "goldenberry" and
    "ground
    berry". Mostly they are used for jam (or "jelly" if you're a word >>>>>>> redefining  American), but can be used in pies too.

    The use of "jelly"€ to designate a clarified fruit-based production, >>>>>> with no use of animal gelatin, is at least as old as the 1855 edition >>>>>> of Mrs. Acton’s "€œModern Cookery", published by Longman. >>>>>
    "Jam" is a spreadable topping you put on toast or between layers of
    sponge cake. (I would say used on scones, but then that opens up yet >>>>> another rabbit hole of misued American definitions).

    "Jelly" is a wobbly desert used in trifles, etc., although there are >>>>> also things like mint "jelly" (as oposed to "mint sauce") which goes >>>>> with roast lamb.

    Jelly is made from juice only.  Jam includes the fruit.   Both are
    put on
    toast, bread, muffins or between layers of sponge cake.

    "Jelly is a clear fruit spread made from cooked fruit juice and
    sugar, and possibly pectin, which helps it gel and thicken. ...

    Jam is a thick spread made from fruit juice, chopped, crushed,
    or puréed fruit, and sugar. Pectin may also be added to help it
    gel, but jams are usually looser than jellies."

    www.finecooking.com

    Those are the silly American re-definitions. The actual *English*
    definitions are what I gave ... which is the entire point I started
    with.   :-\

    And you're fine with jelly by the above definition not having any name?
    because you haven't suggested one.

    They're the same thing, so that would still be "jam" ... simply jam with
    and without "bits" in it.  :-p

    “It is not, in fact, very different from the conviction she would have
    felt at the age of ten that the kind of fish-knives used in her father’s house were the proper or normal or ‘real’ kind, while those of
    neighboring families were ‘not real fish-knives’ at all.”
    —Screwtape


    --
    John W. Kennedy
    Algernon Burbage, Lord Roderick, Father Martin, Bishop Baldwin,
    King Pellinore, Captain Bailey, Merlin -- A Kingdom for a Stage!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to John W Kennedy on Sat Jan 1 15:28:47 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 2022-01-01 00:40:13 +0000, John W Kennedy said:
    On 12/30/21 6:26 PM, Your Name wrote:
    On 2021-12-30 22:12:58 +0000, John W Kennedy said:
    On 12/30/21 3:30 PM, Your Name wrote:
    On 2021-12-30 17:39:24 +0000, Dorothy J Heydt said:
    In article <u4qrsg1ofs6t5304674djqlt5m2b5d144e@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person  <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 20:32:35 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> >>>>>> wrote:
    On 2021-12-29 18:50:58 +0000, Lynn McGuire said:

    Over The Hedge: Can One Ever Eat Too Much Pie ?
    https://www.gocomics.com/overthehedge/2021/12/29

    No.

    Lynn

    Greatly depends on what's in the pie.

    For example, 'pumpkin pie' is simply digusting so even a tiny bit on >>>>>>> the end of a toothpick is far too much.

    De gustibus non est disputandum.

    Surprises in Amazon's efforts to provide canned fruit have exposed me >>>>>> to two fruits I never had when growing up but have heard about:
    gooseberries and rhubarb.

    I didn't like them; I suspect they are an acquired taste.

    But bake them into a pie with enough sugar and I suspect they would >>>>>> taste a whole lot better to me.

    Rhubarb pie (with, yes, sufficient sugar) is delectable.  I have
    never encountered gooseberries.

    Usually a rhubarb pie or crumble has some other fruit (e.g. Apple)
    mixed in as well to cut done on the amount of sugar needed.

    The gooseberry has other names too, including "goldenberry" and "ground >>>> berry". Mostly they are used for jam (or "jelly" if you're a word
    redefining American), but can be used in pies too.

    The use of "jelly" to designate a clarified fruit-based production,
    with no use of animal gelatin, is at least as old as the 1855 edition
    of Mrs. Acton's "Modern Cookery", published by Longman.

    "Jam" is a spreadable topping you put on toast or between layers of
    sponge cake. (I would say used on scones, but then that opens up yet
    another rabbit hole of misued American definitions).

    "Jelly" is a wobbly desert used in trifles, etc., although there are
    also things like mint "jelly" (as oposed to "mint sauce") which goes
    with roast lamb.

    Gooseberries can actually be used for both a jam and a jelly.

    "You're just contradicting everything I say! That's not an argument!"

    I'm simply telling you the *facts* of the *English* language and the Americanisations that are incorrect in the *English* language.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to John W Kennedy on Sat Jan 1 15:32:12 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 2022-01-01 00:43:06 +0000, John W Kennedy said:
    On 12/30/21 9:25 PM, Your Name wrote:
    On 2021-12-31 01:54:22 +0000, Scott Lurndal said:
    Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> writes:
    On 2021-12-30 22:12:58 +0000, John W Kennedy said:

    The gooseberry has other names too, including "goldenberry" and "ground >>>>>> berry". Mostly they are used for jam (or "jelly" if you're a word
    redefining  American), but can be used in pies too.

    The use of "jelly"€ to designate a clarified fruit-based production, >>>>> with no use of animal gelatin, is at least as old as the 1855 edition >>>>> of Mrs. Acton’s "€œModern Cookery", published by Longman.

    "Jam" is a spreadable topping you put on toast or between layers of
    sponge cake. (I would say used on scones, but then that opens up yet
    another rabbit hole of misued American definitions).

    "Jelly" is a wobbly desert used in trifles, etc., although there are
    also things like mint "jelly" (as oposed to "mint sauce") which goes
    with roast lamb.

    Jelly is made from juice only.  Jam includes the fruit.   Both are put on
    toast, bread, muffins or between layers of sponge cake.

      "Jelly is a clear fruit spread made from cooked fruit juice and
       sugar, and possibly pectin, which helps it gel and thicken. ...

       Jam is a thick spread made from fruit juice, chopped, crushed,
       or puréed fruit, and sugar. Pectin may also be added to help it
       gel, but jams are usually looser than jellies."

      www.finecooking.com

    Those are the silly American re-definitions. The actual *English*
    definitions are what I gave ... which is the entire point I started
    with.   :-\

    Eliza Acton wasn’t an American.

    Not really relevant. Americans are the ones who continue to try to
    enforce those now-incorrect definitions on the rest of the
    *English*-speaking world ... they're "American English" (an oxy-moron,
    it's either English or America, can't be both, just like
    "African-American" nonsense).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Titus G@21:1/5 to Scott Lurndal on Sat Jan 1 16:19:13 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 1/01/22 4:36 am, Scott Lurndal wrote:
    Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> writes:
    But New Zealand growers developed a new copyrighted
    strain of the Chinese gooseberry which was technically stolen by Chinese
    growers. ( Good on them. Imagine the stupidity of someone owning the
    copyright for the potato! Another example of Capitalism's desire for
    control rather competition.)

    Yeah, imagine that:

    https://patents.google.com/patent/US20050081269A1/en https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/india-revokes-patent-pepsicos-lays-potatoes-2021-12-03/


    Good grief. Why didn't they just start with water or oxygen?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Quinn C@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 1 11:34:02 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    * Your Name:

    On 2021-12-31 16:20:25 +0000, Quinn C said:
    * Your Name:
    On 2021-12-31 01:54:22 +0000, Scott Lurndal said:

    Jelly is made from juice only. Jam includes the fruit. Both are put on >>>> toast, bread, muffins or between layers of sponge cake.

    "Jelly is a clear fruit spread made from cooked fruit juice and
    sugar, and possibly pectin, which helps it gel and thicken. ...

    Jam is a thick spread made from fruit juice, chopped, crushed,
    or pured fruit, and sugar. Pectin may also be added to help it
    gel, but jams are usually looser than jellies."

    www.finecooking.com

    Those are the silly American re-definitions. The actual *English*
    definitions are what I gave ... which is the entire point I started
    with. :-\

    And you're fine with jelly by the above definition not having any name?
    because you haven't suggested one.

    They're the same thing, so that would still be "jam" ... simply jam
    with and without "bits" in it. :-p

    All right, and a peach is just a plum with fuzz. People make up too many unnecessary words.

    Happy 2022!

    --
    Ihre E-Mail-ID Haben Sie gewann 500.000,00 GBP in der
    SAMSUNG UK Promotion Lotterie ziehen.
    -- SPAMPOESIE

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From J. Clarke@21:1/5 to lispamateur@crommatograph.info on Sat Jan 1 12:49:52 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On Sat, 1 Jan 2022 11:34:02 -0500, Quinn C
    <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:

    * Your Name:

    On 2021-12-31 16:20:25 +0000, Quinn C said:
    * Your Name:
    On 2021-12-31 01:54:22 +0000, Scott Lurndal said:

    Jelly is made from juice only. Jam includes the fruit. Both are put on >>>>> toast, bread, muffins or between layers of sponge cake.

    "Jelly is a clear fruit spread made from cooked fruit juice and
    sugar, and possibly pectin, which helps it gel and thicken. ...

    Jam is a thick spread made from fruit juice, chopped, crushed,
    or puréed fruit, and sugar. Pectin may also be added to help it
    gel, but jams are usually looser than jellies."

    www.finecooking.com

    Those are the silly American re-definitions. The actual *English*
    definitions are what I gave ... which is the entire point I started
    with. :-\

    And you're fine with jelly by the above definition not having any name?
    because you haven't suggested one.

    They're the same thing, so that would still be "jam" ... simply jam
    with and without "bits" in it. :-p

    All right, and a peach is just a plum with fuzz. People make up too many >unnecessary words.

    Supermarkets sell "grape jelly" and "grape jam". I have never been
    able to identify any difference between them other than the word on
    the label.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Quinn C@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 1 13:14:11 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    * Your Name:

    On 2022-01-01 00:43:06 +0000, John W Kennedy said:

    Eliza Acton wasn’t an American.

    Not really relevant. Americans are the ones who continue to try to
    enforce those now-incorrect definitions on the rest of the
    *English*-speaking world ... they're "American English" (an oxy-moron,
    it's either English or America, can't be both, just like
    "African-American" nonsense).

    OK, you're getting exceedingly silly, but I guess that shouldn't have
    been a surprise given your silly handle.

    Maybe "sensible Usenet contributor" is also an oxymoron.

    --
    Jib the boom! Poop the deck!
    Rattle the hatch! Main the sail! Pepper the mints!
    Anchors aweigh in the morn!
    -- Muppet Show sea shanty (Ep.220)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul S Person@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 1 09:57:33 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On Fri, 31 Dec 2021 12:26:53 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
    wrote:

    On 2021-12-30 22:12:58 +0000, John W Kennedy said:
    On 12/30/21 3:30 PM, Your Name wrote:
    On 2021-12-30 17:39:24 +0000, Dorothy J Heydt said:
    In article <u4qrsg1ofs6t5304674djqlt5m2b5d144e@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person  <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 20:32:35 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> >>>>> wrote:
    On 2021-12-29 18:50:58 +0000, Lynn McGuire said:

    Over The Hedge: Can One Ever Eat Too Much Pie ?
    https://www.gocomics.com/overthehedge/2021/12/29

    No.

    Lynn

    Greatly depends on what's in the pie.

    For example, 'pumpkin pie' is simply digusting so even a tiny bit on >>>>>> the end of a toothpick is far too much.

    De gustibus non est disputandum.

    Surprises in Amazon's efforts to provide canned fruit have exposed me >>>>> to two fruits I never had when growing up but have heard about:
    gooseberries and rhubarb.

    I didn't like them; I suspect they are an acquired taste.

    But bake them into a pie with enough sugar and I suspect they would
    taste a whole lot better to me.

    Rhubarb pie (with, yes, sufficient sugar) is delectable.  I have
    never encountered gooseberries.

    Usually a rhubarb pie or crumble has some other fruit (e.g. Apple)
    mixed in as well to cut done on the amount of sugar needed.

    The gooseberry has other names too, including "goldenberry" and "ground
    berry". Mostly they are used for jam (or "jelly" if you're a word
    redefining American), but can be used in pies too.

    The use of "jelly"? to designate a clarified fruit-based production,
    with no use of animal gelatin, is at least as old as the 1855 edition
    of Mrs. Acton’s "Modern Cookery", published by Longman.

    "Jam" is a spreadable topping you put on toast or between layers of
    sponge cake. (I would say used on scones, but then that opens up yet
    another rabbit hole of misued American definitions).

    "Jelly" is a wobbly desert used in trifles, etc., although there are
    also things like mint "jelly" (as oposed to "mint sauce") which goes
    with roast lamb.

    Ah. Jell-O. Wobbly desert indeed!

    And I suppose "preserves" is used for canned fruit.

    Gooseberries can actually be used for both a jam and a jelly.



    The "kiwifruit" (incorrectly called just "kiwi" in many other
    countries, which is really a flightless bird) is more correctly called
    the "Chinese gooseberry" because it's a native plant of China later
    stolen and renamed by New Zealand growers for copyright purposes ...
    and they now selfishly complain that China is stealing their market for
    the fruit! :-\

    --
    "I begin to envy Petronius."
    "I have envied him long since."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Quinn C@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 1 13:16:11 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    * Your Name:

    On 2021-12-31 18:37:32 +0000, Scott Lurndal said:
    Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> writes:
    On Fri, 31 Dec 2021 19:27:33 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
    wrote:
    On 2021-12-31 03:48:55 +0000, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan said:
    In article <sqltt2$nqh$1@dont-email.me>, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
    On 31/12/21 3:43 pm, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

    Well, I like kiwifruit, except for the hassle involved in peeling >>>>>>> it.

    Bifurcate it through its equatorial circumference and dig out the good >>>>>> bits with a spoon.

    And the Golden Kiwi apparently can be eaten peel & all.

    You can actually eat the peel (wash it first!) of any kiwifruit, but
    the "furry" texture is off-putting to most people.

    When I was growing up, my mother engaged in "home canning".

    For those unaware of this, it was a major enterprise, involving things
    to can, glass jars with vacuum-seal tops, lots of boiling water, and
    lots of of sugar. She did this in the fall; we ate the results into
    the next spring if not summer.

    It's not like home canning is extinct - I'm currently enjoying
    a nice cherry-plum (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prunus_cerasifera)
    jam on my morning english muffin.

    Over a 100 jars of cherry-plum jam and grape jelly, all from the
    back yard.

    One of things she canned was called "Queen-of-All Preserves". I loved
    it. Well, given the amount of sugar, why not? This was a compendium of
    small bits and pieces of various fruits. I was appalled to learn that
    one of my favorite pieces was, in fact -- orange peel.

    Candied orange peel is delicious.

    So I am well able to imagine that a gooseberry pie, if it had enough
    sugar in it when it was cooked, would be something I might like.

    I certainly enjoyed them growing up. Not a common fruit where
    I live now.

    My grandmother made an excellent rhubarb crumble.

    Especially with custard. :-)

    There's a UK kids' animated series called "Roobarb and Custard" ...
    another in the massively long line of bad choices that "help" kids
    learn to spell, but "Rhubarb and Custard" is probably not
    copyrightable. :-\
    <https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071043/>

    Sadly, Roobarb is a dog, not a kangaroo, which would've justified the
    spelling.

    --
    Veronica: You named your puppy "The Missus"?
    Cliff: Says the owner of a dog named "Pony".
    -- Veronica Mars, S04E05

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul S Person@21:1/5 to tednolan on Sat Jan 1 10:17:02 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 31 Dec 2021 17:31:25 GMT, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
    <tednolan>) wrote:

    In article <eseusg9v4kbv1bao0vu94g4dgf7uegpm41@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 17:39:24 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
    Heydt) wrote:

    In article <u4qrsg1ofs6t5304674djqlt5m2b5d144e@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 20:32:35 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> >>>>wrote:

    On 2021-12-29 18:50:58 +0000, Lynn McGuire said:

    Over The Hedge: Can One Ever Eat Too Much Pie ?
    https://www.gocomics.com/overthehedge/2021/12/29

    No.

    Lynn

    Greatly depends on what's in the pie.

    For example, 'pumpkin pie' is simply digusting so even a tiny bit on >>>>>the end of a toothpick is far too much.

    De gustibus non est disputandum.

    Surprises in Amazon's efforts to provide canned fruit have exposed me >>>>to two fruits I never had when growing up but have heard about: >>>>gooseberries and rhubarb.

    I didn't like them; I suspect they are an acquired taste.

    But bake them into a pie with enough sugar and I suspect they would >>>>taste a whole lot better to me.

    Rhubarb pie (with, yes, sufficient sugar) is delectable. I have
    never encountered gooseberries.

    I knew gooseberry pie from a George Pal cartoon, "Jasper and the
    Haunted House". Which isn't nearly as bad as might be expected from
    its age, at least until you reach the end.

    The Jasper shorts were "Puppetoons" not cartoons. You couldn't
    show them today probably. I like the non-Jasper Puppetoon "Tulips
    Shall Grow":

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1QUUmShhMM

    True, true -- "Puppetoons". Which are stop-motion, just like /Chicken
    Run/.

    There is a DVD /The Puppetoon Movie/ which includes 24 of them (12 in
    the movie, twelve additional ones). How many you could show today I'm
    not sure. Many of them were commercials. Jasper himself may be too stereotypical, and that is a pity, for the end of "Jasper and the
    Haunted House" is an outlier. "Jasper in a Jam" and "Jasper at the
    Derby" are quite entertaining.

    These older cartoons can be quite frustrating. They can go merrily
    along, very enjoyable and then -- for no reason -- turn a bit nasty,
    if only for a moment.

    But that is what audiences wanted, back when they were made.
    --
    "I begin to envy Petronius."
    "I have envied him long since."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to Quinn C on Sun Jan 2 09:43:52 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 2022-01-01 16:34:02 +0000, Quinn C said:
    * Your Name:
    On 2021-12-31 16:20:25 +0000, Quinn C said:
    * Your Name:
    On 2021-12-31 01:54:22 +0000, Scott Lurndal said:

    Jelly is made from juice only. Jam includes the fruit. Both are put >>>>> on toast, bread, muffins or between layers of sponge cake.

    "Jelly is a clear fruit spread made from cooked fruit juice and
    sugar, and possibly pectin, which helps it gel and thicken. ...

    Jam is a thick spread made from fruit juice, chopped, crushed,
    or pured fruit, and sugar. Pectin may also be added to help it
    gel, but jams are usually looser than jellies."

    www.finecooking.com

    Those are the silly American re-definitions. The actual *English*
    definitions are what I gave ... which is the entire point I started
    with. :-\

    And you're fine with jelly by the above definition not having any name?
    because you haven't suggested one.

    They're the same thing, so that would still be "jam" ... simply jam
    with and without "bits" in it. :-p

    All right, and a peach is just a plum with fuzz.

    A peach-plum is called a "Nectarine".

    There's also a peach-plum-apricot which is called a "Peacotum".



    People make up too many unnecessary words.

    I'm not making up any words. It's silly Americans who have two words
    for the same jam product, plus an unnecessary third made-up word for an existing jelly product.

    They already have "chunky" and "smooth" versions of the disgusting
    peanut butter, so they could easily simply have "chunky" (bits in) and
    "smooth" (no bits) versions of jam to, but no, they obstinately insist
    on making things more complicated for the *English* speaking world
    simply because they want to. :-\

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to J. Clarke on Sun Jan 2 09:37:55 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 2022-01-01 17:49:52 +0000, J. Clarke said:
    On Sat, 1 Jan 2022 11:34:02 -0500, Quinn C
    <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:
    * Your Name:
    On 2021-12-31 16:20:25 +0000, Quinn C said:
    * Your Name:
    On 2021-12-31 01:54:22 +0000, Scott Lurndal said:

    Jelly is made from juice only. Jam includes the fruit. Both are put on
    toast, bread, muffins or between layers of sponge cake.

    "Jelly is a clear fruit spread made from cooked fruit juice and
    sugar, and possibly pectin, which helps it gel and thicken. ...

    Jam is a thick spread made from fruit juice, chopped, crushed,
    or pured fruit, and sugar. Pectin may also be added to help it
    gel, but jams are usually looser than jellies."

    www.finecooking.com

    Those are the silly American re-definitions. The actual *English*
    definitions are what I gave ... which is the entire point I started
    with. :-\

    And you're fine with jelly by the above definition not having any name? >>>> because you haven't suggested one.

    They're the same thing, so that would still be "jam" ... simply jam
    with and without "bits" in it. :-p

    All right, and a peach is just a plum with fuzz. People make up too many
    unnecessary words.

    Supermarkets sell "grape jelly" and "grape jam". I have never been
    able to identify any difference between them other than the word on
    the label.

    I'm guessing they both come in a jar, which would make them both just "jam".

    Real "jelly" comes in a box, either in a powdered or cube form. You
    then put that into a bowl, add boiling water, and allow to set in the
    fridge as a desert (it's never spreadable, so can't be used on toast,
    cakes, etc.).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Quinn C@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 1 16:34:01 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    * Your Name:

    On 2022-01-01 16:34:02 +0000, Quinn C said:
    * Your Name:
    On 2021-12-31 16:20:25 +0000, Quinn C said:
    * Your Name:
    On 2021-12-31 01:54:22 +0000, Scott Lurndal said:

    Jelly is made from juice only. Jam includes the fruit. Both are put >>>>>> on toast, bread, muffins or between layers of sponge cake.

    "Jelly is a clear fruit spread made from cooked fruit juice and
    sugar, and possibly pectin, which helps it gel and thicken. ...

    Jam is a thick spread made from fruit juice, chopped, crushed,
    or pured fruit, and sugar. Pectin may also be added to help it
    gel, but jams are usually looser than jellies."

    www.finecooking.com

    Those are the silly American re-definitions. The actual *English*
    definitions are what I gave ... which is the entire point I started
    with. :-\

    And you're fine with jelly by the above definition not having any name? >>>> because you haven't suggested one.

    They're the same thing, so that would still be "jam" ... simply jam
    with and without "bits" in it. :-p

    All right, and a peach is just a plum with fuzz.

    A peach-plum is called a "Nectarine".

    There's also a peach-plum-apricot which is called a "Peacotum".

    People make up too many unnecessary words.

    I'm not making up any words. It's silly Americans who have two words
    for the same jam product, plus an unnecessary third made-up word for an existing jelly product.

    I was taking your lead regarding unnecessary distinctions and criticized
    the person who invented the word for "peach" (thousands of years ago, probably).

    People make distinctions where they consider them important. Your
    personal opinion doesn't matter.

    That said, I don't remember seeing "grape jam" and will see, if I find
    it in store, if it is indeed jelly or not. The one in this picture (of a supposedly homemade product) clearly isn't. <https://fccmansfield.org/img/47bce10c95f1bb4fd7a102fac2600e00.jpg>

    They already have "chunky" and "smooth" versions of the disgusting
    peanut butter, so they could easily simply have "chunky" (bits in) and "smooth" (no bits) versions of jam to, but no, they obstinately insist
    on making things more complicated for the *English* speaking world
    simply because they want to. :-\

    That's not sufficient; non-jelly jam already can be smooth and chunky
    (made from fine puree or chunky puree). Jelly would have to be called extra-smooth or something, but even that seems misleading. "Clear" might
    work.

    --
    Gehren Sie auch zu billigeren Geschenk fr Ihre Freunde wollen
    -- SPAMPOESIE

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John W Kennedy@21:1/5 to Your Name on Sat Jan 1 19:40:02 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 12/31/21 9:28 PM, Your Name wrote:
    On 2022-01-01 00:40:13 +0000, John W Kennedy said:
    On 12/30/21 6:26 PM, Your Name wrote:
    On 2021-12-30 22:12:58 +0000, John W Kennedy said:
    On 12/30/21 3:30 PM, Your Name wrote:
    On 2021-12-30 17:39:24 +0000, Dorothy J Heydt said:
    In article <u4qrsg1ofs6t5304674djqlt5m2b5d144e@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person  <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 20:32:35 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> >>>>>>> wrote:
    On 2021-12-29 18:50:58 +0000, Lynn McGuire said:

    Over The Hedge: Can One Ever Eat Too Much Pie ?
    https://www.gocomics.com/overthehedge/2021/12/29

    No.

    Lynn

    Greatly depends on what's in the pie.

    For example, 'pumpkin pie' is simply digusting so even a tiny
    bit on
    the end of a toothpick is far too much.

    De gustibus non est disputandum.

    Surprises in Amazon's efforts to provide canned fruit have
    exposed me
    to two fruits I never had when growing up but have heard about:
    gooseberries and rhubarb.

    I didn't like them; I suspect they are an acquired taste.

    But bake them into a pie with enough sugar and I suspect they would >>>>>>> taste a whole lot better to me.

    Rhubarb pie (with, yes, sufficient sugar) is delectable.  I have >>>>>> never encountered gooseberries.

    Usually a rhubarb pie or crumble has some other fruit (e.g. Apple)
    mixed in as well to cut done on the amount of sugar needed.

    The gooseberry has other names too, including "goldenberry" and
    "ground berry". Mostly they are used for jam (or "jelly" if you're
    a word redefining  American), but can be used in pies too.

    The use of "jelly" to designate a clarified fruit-based production,
    with no use of animal gelatin, is at least as old as the 1855
    edition of Mrs. Acton's "Modern Cookery", published by Longman.

    "Jam" is a spreadable topping you put on toast or between layers of
    sponge cake. (I would say used on scones, but then that opens up yet
    another rabbit hole of misued American definitions).

    "Jelly" is a wobbly desert used in trifles, etc., although there are
    also things like mint "jelly" (as oposed to "mint sauce") which goes
    with roast lamb.

    Gooseberries can actually be used for both a jam and a jelly.

    "You're just contradicting everything I say! That's not an argument!"

    I'm simply telling you the *facts* of the *English* language and the Americanisations that are incorrect in the *English* language.


    Still nothing but evidence-free contradiction, backed by what might,
    perhaps, be called a sort of “vocabular creationism”.

    --
    John W. Kennedy
    Algernon Burbage, Lord Roderick, Father Martin, Bishop Baldwin,
    King Pellinore, Captain Bailey, Merlin -- A Kingdom for a Stage!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John W Kennedy@21:1/5 to Your Name on Sat Jan 1 20:47:25 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 12/31/21 9:32 PM, Your Name wrote:
    On 2022-01-01 00:43:06 +0000, John W Kennedy said:
    On 12/30/21 9:25 PM, Your Name wrote:
    On 2021-12-31 01:54:22 +0000, Scott Lurndal said:
    Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> writes:
    On 2021-12-30 22:12:58 +0000, John W Kennedy said:

    The gooseberry has other names too, including "goldenberry" and
    "ground
    berry". Mostly they are used for jam (or "jelly" if you're a word >>>>>>> redefining  American), but can be used in pies too.

    The use of "jelly"€ to designate a clarified fruit-based production, >>>>>> with no use of animal gelatin, is at least as old as the 1855 edition >>>>>> of Mrs. Acton’s "€œModern Cookery", published by Longman. >>>>>
    "Jam" is a spreadable topping you put on toast or between layers of
    sponge cake. (I would say used on scones, but then that opens up yet >>>>> another rabbit hole of misued American definitions).

    "Jelly" is a wobbly desert used in trifles, etc., although there are >>>>> also things like mint "jelly" (as oposed to "mint sauce") which goes >>>>> with roast lamb.

    Jelly is made from juice only.  Jam includes the fruit.   Both are
    put on
    toast, bread, muffins or between layers of sponge cake.

      "Jelly is a clear fruit spread made from cooked fruit juice and
       sugar, and possibly pectin, which helps it gel and thicken. ...

       Jam is a thick spread made from fruit juice, chopped, crushed,
       or puréed fruit, and sugar. Pectin may also be added to help it
       gel, but jams are usually looser than jellies."

      www.finecooking.com

    Those are the silly American re-definitions. The actual *English*
    definitions are what I gave ... which is the entire point I started
    with.   :-\

    Eliza Acton wasn’t an American.

    Not really relevant. Americans are the ones who continue to try to
    enforce those now-incorrect definitions on the rest of the
    *English*-speaking world ... they're "American English" (an oxy-moron,
    it's either English or America, can't be both, just like
    "African-American" nonsense).

    And yet the OED sees fit to tag “jelly” in the sense of fruit juice
    gelled with some agent other than gelatine as “later”, not “US”. It’s almost as though specialist professional scholars disagree with you.

    Speaking of the OED (or the NED, as it was then), when the first edition
    was finished in book form, presentation copies were formally presented
    to the White House as well as to Buckingham Palace.


    --
    John W. Kennedy
    Algernon Burbage, Lord Roderick, Father Martin, Bishop Baldwin,
    King Pellinore, Captain Bailey, Merlin -- A Kingdom for a Stage!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John W Kennedy@21:1/5 to J. Clarke on Sat Jan 1 21:15:28 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 1/1/22 12:49 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
    On Sat, 1 Jan 2022 11:34:02 -0500, Quinn C
    <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:

    * Your Name:

    On 2021-12-31 16:20:25 +0000, Quinn C said:
    * Your Name:
    On 2021-12-31 01:54:22 +0000, Scott Lurndal said:

    Jelly is made from juice only. Jam includes the fruit. Both are put on
    toast, bread, muffins or between layers of sponge cake.

    "Jelly is a clear fruit spread made from cooked fruit juice and
    sugar, and possibly pectin, which helps it gel and thicken. ...

    Jam is a thick spread made from fruit juice, chopped, crushed,
    or puréed fruit, and sugar. Pectin may also be added to help it
    gel, but jams are usually looser than jellies."

    www.finecooking.com

    Those are the silly American re-definitions. The actual *English*
    definitions are what I gave ... which is the entire point I started
    with. :-\

    And you're fine with jelly by the above definition not having any name? >>>> because you haven't suggested one.

    They're the same thing, so that would still be "jam" ... simply jam
    with and without "bits" in it. :-p

    All right, and a peach is just a plum with fuzz. People make up too many
    unnecessary words.

    Supermarkets sell "grape jelly" and "grape jam". I have never been
    able to identify any difference between them other than the word on
    the label.

    In US use, the distinction is well defined. Grape jelly is absolutely
    clear, and is gelled with pectin, and is meant to be used like jam
    (chiefly, spread on bread). If gelatin is used, and it is served at the
    table as a cold dessert, it is “grape gelatin", or by abuse of a trade
    name, “grape Jell-O. "Grape jam" has solid bits in it, but is otherwise
    much the same as “grape jelly”.

    In the 50s, there was also “grapelade”.

    --
    John W. Kennedy
    Algernon Burbage, Lord Roderick, Father Martin, Bishop Baldwin,
    King Pellinore, Captain Bailey, Merlin -- A Kingdom for a Stage!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dorothy J Heydt@21:1/5 to YourName@YourISP.com on Sun Jan 2 02:21:41 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    In article <sqqee8$1sjm$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
    Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
    On 2022-01-01 16:34:02 +0000, Quinn C said:
    * Your Name:
    On 2021-12-31 16:20:25 +0000, Quinn C said:
    * Your Name:
    On 2021-12-31 01:54:22 +0000, Scott Lurndal said:

    Jelly is made from juice only. Jam includes the fruit. Both are put >>>>>> on toast, bread, muffins or between layers of sponge cake.

    "Jelly is a clear fruit spread made from cooked fruit juice and
    sugar, and possibly pectin, which helps it gel and thicken. ...

    Jam is a thick spread made from fruit juice, chopped, crushed,
    or pured fruit, and sugar. Pectin may also be added to help it
    gel, but jams are usually looser than jellies."

    www.finecooking.com

    Those are the silly American re-definitions. The actual *English*
    definitions are what I gave ... which is the entire point I started
    with. :-\

    And you're fine with jelly by the above definition not having any name? >>>> because you haven't suggested one.

    They're the same thing, so that would still be "jam" ... simply jam
    with and without "bits" in it. :-p

    All right, and a peach is just a plum with fuzz.

    A peach-plum is called a "Nectarine".

    There's also a peach-plum-apricot which is called a "Peacotum".



    People make up too many unnecessary words.

    I'm not making up any words. It's silly Americans who have two words
    for the same jam product, plus an unnecessary third made-up word for an >existing jelly product.

    They already have "chunky" and "smooth" versions of the disgusting
    peanut butter, so they could easily simply have "chunky" (bits in) and >"smooth" (no bits) versions of jam to, but no, they obstinately insist
    on making things more complicated for the *English* speaking world
    simply because they want to. :-\


    "The rose is a rose,
    And was always a rose.
    But now the theory goes
    That the apple's a rose,
    And the pear is, and so's
    The plum, I suppose.
    The dear only knows
    What will next prove a rose.
    You, of course, are a rose
    But were always a rose."

    --Robert Frost

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosaceae


    --
    Dorothy J. Heydt
    Vallejo, California
    djheydt at gmail dot com
    Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dorothy J Heydt@21:1/5 to john.w.kennedy@gmail.com on Sun Jan 2 03:00:29 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    In article <04adnQjzcu9dl0z8nZ2dnUU7-RnNnZ2d@giganews.com>,
    John W Kennedy <john.w.kennedy@gmail.com> wrote:

    In the 50s, there was also “grapelade”.

    In my distant youth, it was Grapette.

    Bright purple, sweet as hell, and (I'm sure) totally synthetic.
    The only place I could find it was at a stand on a beach along
    the Russian River, halfway between Rio Nido and Guerneville.

    --
    Dorothy J. Heydt
    Vallejo, California
    djheydt at gmail dot com
    Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From J. Clarke@21:1/5 to john.w.kennedy@gmail.com on Sat Jan 1 23:00:20 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On Sat, 1 Jan 2022 21:15:28 -0500, John W Kennedy
    <john.w.kennedy@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 1/1/22 12:49 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
    On Sat, 1 Jan 2022 11:34:02 -0500, Quinn C
    <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:

    * Your Name:

    On 2021-12-31 16:20:25 +0000, Quinn C said:
    * Your Name:
    On 2021-12-31 01:54:22 +0000, Scott Lurndal said:

    Jelly is made from juice only. Jam includes the fruit. Both are put on
    toast, bread, muffins or between layers of sponge cake.

    "Jelly is a clear fruit spread made from cooked fruit juice and
    sugar, and possibly pectin, which helps it gel and thicken. ...

    Jam is a thick spread made from fruit juice, chopped, crushed,
    or puréed fruit, and sugar. Pectin may also be added to help it >>>>>>> gel, but jams are usually looser than jellies."

    www.finecooking.com

    Those are the silly American re-definitions. The actual *English*
    definitions are what I gave ... which is the entire point I started >>>>>> with. :-\

    And you're fine with jelly by the above definition not having any name? >>>>> because you haven't suggested one.

    They're the same thing, so that would still be "jam" ... simply jam
    with and without "bits" in it. :-p

    All right, and a peach is just a plum with fuzz. People make up too many >>> unnecessary words.

    Supermarkets sell "grape jelly" and "grape jam". I have never been
    able to identify any difference between them other than the word on
    the label.

    In US use, the distinction is well defined. Grape jelly is absolutely
    clear, and is gelled with pectin, and is meant to be used like jam
    (chiefly, spread on bread). If gelatin is used, and it is served at the
    table as a cold dessert, it is “grape gelatin", or by abuse of a trade >name, “grape Jell-O. "Grape jam" has solid bits in it, but is otherwise >much the same as “grape jelly”.

    I defy you to find any solid bits in Welch's Grape Jam.

    In the 50s, there was also “grapelade”.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From J. Clarke@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 1 23:01:18 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On Sun, 2 Jan 2022 03:00:29 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
    wrote:

    In article <04adnQjzcu9dl0z8nZ2dnUU7-RnNnZ2d@giganews.com>,
    John W Kennedy <john.w.kennedy@gmail.com> wrote:

    In the 50s, there was also “grapelade”.

    In my distant youth, it was Grapette.

    Bright purple, sweet as hell, and (I'm sure) totally synthetic.
    The only place I could find it was at a stand on a beach along
    the Russian River, halfway between Rio Nido and Guerneville.

    It was commonplace in the South in the late '50s and early '60s. I
    rather liked it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to John W Kennedy on Sun Jan 2 19:29:25 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 2022-01-02 01:47:25 +0000, John W Kennedy said:

    On 12/31/21 9:32 PM, Your Name wrote:
    On 2022-01-01 00:43:06 +0000, John W Kennedy said:
    On 12/30/21 9:25 PM, Your Name wrote:
    On 2021-12-31 01:54:22 +0000, Scott Lurndal said:
    Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> writes:
    On 2021-12-30 22:12:58 +0000, John W Kennedy said:

    The gooseberry has other names too, including "goldenberry" and "ground
    berry". Mostly they are used for jam (or "jelly" if you're a word >>>>>>>> redefining  American), but can be used in pies too.

    The use of "jelly"€ to designate a clarified fruit-based production,
    with no use of animal gelatin, is at least as old as the 1855 edition >>>>>>> of Mrs. Acton’s "€œModern Cookery", published by Longman. >>>>>>
    "Jam" is a spreadable topping you put on toast or between layers of >>>>>> sponge cake. (I would say used on scones, but then that opens up yet >>>>>> another rabbit hole of misued American definitions).

    "Jelly" is a wobbly desert used in trifles, etc., although there are >>>>>> also things like mint "jelly" (as oposed to "mint sauce") which goes >>>>>> with roast lamb.

    Jelly is made from juice only.  Jam includes the fruit.   Both are put on
    toast, bread, muffins or between layers of sponge cake.

      "Jelly is a clear fruit spread made from cooked fruit juice and
       sugar, and possibly pectin, which helps it gel and thicken. ... >>>>>
       Jam is a thick spread made from fruit juice, chopped, crushed,
       or puréed fruit, and sugar. Pectin may also be added to help it >>>>>    gel, but jams are usually looser than jellies."

      www.finecooking.com

    Those are the silly American re-definitions. The actual *English*
    definitions are what I gave ... which is the entire point I started
    with.   :-\

    Eliza Acton wasn’t an American.

    Not really relevant. Americans are the ones who continue to try to
    enforce those now-incorrect definitions on the rest of the
    *English*-speaking world ... they're "American English" (an oxy-moron,
    it's either English or America, can't be both, just like
    "African-American" nonsense).

    And yet the OED sees fit to tag “jelly” in the sense of fruit juice gelled with some agent other than gelatine as “later”, not “US”. It’s
    almost as though specialist professional scholars disagree with you.

    Speaking of the OED (or the NED, as it was then), when the first
    edition was finished in book form, presentation copies were formally presented to the White House as well as to Buckingham Palace.

    Whatever Americanised stupidty you want to delude yourself with. The
    actual facts of the *English* language remain as I said in the first
    place.

    Game over

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul S Person@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jan 2 09:33:22 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On Sun, 2 Jan 2022 09:37:55 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
    wrote:

    On 2022-01-01 17:49:52 +0000, J. Clarke said:
    On Sat, 1 Jan 2022 11:34:02 -0500, Quinn C
    <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:
    * Your Name:
    On 2021-12-31 16:20:25 +0000, Quinn C said:
    * Your Name:
    On 2021-12-31 01:54:22 +0000, Scott Lurndal said:

    Jelly is made from juice only. Jam includes the fruit. Both are put on
    toast, bread, muffins or between layers of sponge cake.

    "Jelly is a clear fruit spread made from cooked fruit juice and
    sugar, and possibly pectin, which helps it gel and thicken. ...

    Jam is a thick spread made from fruit juice, chopped, crushed,
    or pured fruit, and sugar. Pectin may also be added to help it
    gel, but jams are usually looser than jellies."

    www.finecooking.com

    Those are the silly American re-definitions. The actual *English*
    definitions are what I gave ... which is the entire point I started >>>>>> with. :-\

    And you're fine with jelly by the above definition not having any name? >>>>> because you haven't suggested one.

    They're the same thing, so that would still be "jam" ... simply jam
    with and without "bits" in it. :-p

    All right, and a peach is just a plum with fuzz. People make up too many >>> unnecessary words.

    Supermarkets sell "grape jelly" and "grape jam". I have never been
    able to identify any difference between them other than the word on
    the label.

    I'm guessing they both come in a jar, which would make them both just "jam".

    Real "jelly" comes in a box, either in a powdered or cube form. You
    then put that into a bowl, add boiling water, and allow to set in the
    fridge as a desert (it's never spreadable, so can't be used on toast,
    cakes, etc.).

    Definitely Jell-O, then.
    --
    "I begin to envy Petronius."
    "I have envied him long since."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul S Person@21:1/5 to jclarke.873638@gmail.com on Sun Jan 2 09:35:50 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On Sat, 01 Jan 2022 23:00:20 -0500, J. Clarke
    <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sat, 1 Jan 2022 21:15:28 -0500, John W Kennedy
    <john.w.kennedy@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 1/1/22 12:49 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
    On Sat, 1 Jan 2022 11:34:02 -0500, Quinn C
    <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:

    * Your Name:

    On 2021-12-31 16:20:25 +0000, Quinn C said:
    * Your Name:
    On 2021-12-31 01:54:22 +0000, Scott Lurndal said:

    Jelly is made from juice only. Jam includes the fruit. Both are put on
    toast, bread, muffins or between layers of sponge cake.

    "Jelly is a clear fruit spread made from cooked fruit juice and >>>>>>>> sugar, and possibly pectin, which helps it gel and thicken. ... >>>>>>>>
    Jam is a thick spread made from fruit juice, chopped, crushed, >>>>>>>> or pured fruit, and sugar. Pectin may also be added to help it >>>>>>>> gel, but jams are usually looser than jellies."

    www.finecooking.com

    Those are the silly American re-definitions. The actual *English* >>>>>>> definitions are what I gave ... which is the entire point I started >>>>>>> with. :-\

    And you're fine with jelly by the above definition not having any name? >>>>>> because you haven't suggested one.

    They're the same thing, so that would still be "jam" ... simply jam
    with and without "bits" in it. :-p

    All right, and a peach is just a plum with fuzz. People make up too many >>>> unnecessary words.

    Supermarkets sell "grape jelly" and "grape jam". I have never been
    able to identify any difference between them other than the word on
    the label.

    In US use, the distinction is well defined. Grape jelly is absolutely >>clear, and is gelled with pectin, and is meant to be used like jam >>(chiefly, spread on bread). If gelatin is used, and it is served at the >>table as a cold dessert, it is grape gelatin", or by abuse of a trade >>name, grape Jell-O. "Grape jam" has solid bits in it, but is otherwise >>much the same as grape jelly.

    I defy you to find any solid bits in Welch's Grape Jam.

    It may have depended on the time of year.

    One reason I am using Kroger's Strawberry Preserves instead of
    Smucker's is because Kroger's /always/ has bits of Strawberry in it,
    sometimes more, sometimes less. The Smucker's went from sometimes less
    to sometimes none during the year.
    --
    "I begin to envy Petronius."
    "I have envied him long since."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul S Person@21:1/5 to john.w.kennedy@gmail.com on Sun Jan 2 09:41:13 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On Sat, 1 Jan 2022 19:40:02 -0500, John W Kennedy
    <john.w.kennedy@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 12/31/21 9:28 PM, Your Name wrote:
    On 2022-01-01 00:40:13 +0000, John W Kennedy said:
    On 12/30/21 6:26 PM, Your Name wrote:
    On 2021-12-30 22:12:58 +0000, John W Kennedy said:
    On 12/30/21 3:30 PM, Your Name wrote:
    On 2021-12-30 17:39:24 +0000, Dorothy J Heydt said:
    In article <u4qrsg1ofs6t5304674djqlt5m2b5d144e@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person  <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 20:32:35 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> >>>>>>>> wrote:
    On 2021-12-29 18:50:58 +0000, Lynn McGuire said:

    Over The Hedge: Can One Ever Eat Too Much Pie ?
    https://www.gocomics.com/overthehedge/2021/12/29

    No.

    Lynn

    Greatly depends on what's in the pie.

    For example, 'pumpkin pie' is simply digusting so even a tiny >>>>>>>>> bit on
    the end of a toothpick is far too much.

    De gustibus non est disputandum.

    Surprises in Amazon's efforts to provide canned fruit have
    exposed me
    to two fruits I never had when growing up but have heard about: >>>>>>>> gooseberries and rhubarb.

    I didn't like them; I suspect they are an acquired taste.

    But bake them into a pie with enough sugar and I suspect they would >>>>>>>> taste a whole lot better to me.

    Rhubarb pie (with, yes, sufficient sugar) is delectable.  I have >>>>>>> never encountered gooseberries.

    Usually a rhubarb pie or crumble has some other fruit (e.g. Apple) >>>>>> mixed in as well to cut done on the amount of sugar needed.

    The gooseberry has other names too, including "goldenberry" and
    "ground berry". Mostly they are used for jam (or "jelly" if you're >>>>>> a word redefining American), but can be used in pies too.

    The use of "jelly"? to designate a clarified fruit-based production, >>>>> with no use of animal gelatin, is at least as old as the 1855
    edition of Mrs. Acton's "Modern Cookery", published by Longman.

    "Jam" is a spreadable topping you put on toast or between layers of
    sponge cake. (I would say used on scones, but then that opens up yet
    another rabbit hole of misued American definitions).

    "Jelly" is a wobbly desert used in trifles, etc., although there are
    also things like mint "jelly" (as oposed to "mint sauce") which goes
    with roast lamb.

    Gooseberries can actually be used for both a jam and a jelly.

    "You're just contradicting everything I say! That's not an argument!"

    I'm simply telling you the *facts* of the *English* language and the
    Americanisations that are incorrect in the *English* language.


    Still nothing but evidence-free contradiction, backed by what might,
    perhaps, be called a sort of vocabular creationism.

    Yes, he does seem awful insistent on defining /British English/ as the
    One True English, doesn't he.

    Still, I suppose this is a useful illustration of the "two great
    peoples divided by a common language" saying.
    --
    "I begin to envy Petronius."
    "I have envied him long since."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mark Jackson@21:1/5 to Paul S Person on Sun Jan 2 13:08:54 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 1/2/2022 12:41 PM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Sat, 1 Jan 2022 19:40:02 -0500, John W Kennedy
    <john.w.kennedy@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 12/31/21 9:28 PM, Your Name wrote:

    I'm simply telling you the *facts* of the *English* language and
    the Americanisations that are incorrect in the *English*
    language.


    Still nothing but evidence-free contradiction, backed by what
    might, perhaps, be called a sort of “vocabular creationism”.

    Yes, he does seem awful insistent on defining /British English/ as
    the One True English, doesn't he.

    Likely pro-Brexit as well.

    --
    Mark Jackson - https://mark-jackson.online/
    As for behavior, I have shocking news:
    Physicists can be arrogant. - Mike Tamor

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Robert Woodward@21:1/5 to Paul S Person on Sun Jan 2 21:43:54 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    In article <2ro3tgtatsau35heou1s4lk1giol1sm4b0@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:

    On Sat, 1 Jan 2022 19:40:02 -0500, John W Kennedy
    <john.w.kennedy@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 12/31/21 9:28 PM, Your Name wrote:
    On 2022-01-01 00:40:13 +0000, John W Kennedy said:
    On 12/30/21 6:26 PM, Your Name wrote:
    On 2021-12-30 22:12:58 +0000, John W Kennedy said:
    On 12/30/21 3:30 PM, Your Name wrote:
    On 2021-12-30 17:39:24 +0000, Dorothy J Heydt said:
    In article <u4qrsg1ofs6t5304674djqlt5m2b5d144e@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person  <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 20:32:35 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> >>>>>>>> wrote:
    On 2021-12-29 18:50:58 +0000, Lynn McGuire said:

    Over The Hedge: Can One Ever Eat Too Much Pie ?
    https://www.gocomics.com/overthehedge/2021/12/29

    No.

    Lynn

    Greatly depends on what's in the pie.

    For example, 'pumpkin pie' is simply digusting so even a tiny >>>>>>>>> bit on
    the end of a toothpick is far too much.

    De gustibus non est disputandum.

    Surprises in Amazon's efforts to provide canned fruit have
    exposed me
    to two fruits I never had when growing up but have heard about: >>>>>>>> gooseberries and rhubarb.

    I didn't like them; I suspect they are an acquired taste.

    But bake them into a pie with enough sugar and I suspect they would >>>>>>>> taste a whole lot better to me.

    Rhubarb pie (with, yes, sufficient sugar) is delectable.  I have >>>>>>> never encountered gooseberries.

    Usually a rhubarb pie or crumble has some other fruit (e.g. Apple) >>>>>> mixed in as well to cut done on the amount of sugar needed.

    The gooseberry has other names too, including "goldenberry" and
    "ground berry". Mostly they are used for jam (or "jelly" if you're >>>>>> a word redefining American), but can be used in pies too.

    The use of "jelly"? to designate a clarified fruit-based production, >>>>> with no use of animal gelatin, is at least as old as the 1855
    edition of Mrs. Acton's "Modern Cookery", published by Longman.

    "Jam" is a spreadable topping you put on toast or between layers of
    sponge cake. (I would say used on scones, but then that opens up yet >>>> another rabbit hole of misued American definitions).

    "Jelly" is a wobbly desert used in trifles, etc., although there are >>>> also things like mint "jelly" (as oposed to "mint sauce") which goes >>>> with roast lamb.

    Gooseberries can actually be used for both a jam and a jelly.

    "You're just contradicting everything I say! That's not an argument!"

    I'm simply telling you the *facts* of the *English* language and the
    Americanisations that are incorrect in the *English* language.


    Still nothing but evidence-free contradiction, backed by what might, >perhaps, be called a sort of vocabular creationism.

    Yes, he does seem awful insistent on defining /British English/ as the
    One True English, doesn't he.


    I wonder if there is regional variation in England on the meanings of
    jam and jelly? We had to pick up our usage somewhere after all.

    --
    "We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
    Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_. -----------------------------------------------------
    Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to Robert Woodward on Mon Jan 3 19:45:35 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 2022-01-03 05:43:54 +0000, Robert Woodward said:
    In article <2ro3tgtatsau35heou1s4lk1giol1sm4b0@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Sat, 1 Jan 2022 19:40:02 -0500, John W Kennedy
    <john.w.kennedy@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 12/31/21 9:28 PM, Your Name wrote:
    On 2022-01-01 00:40:13 +0000, John W Kennedy said:
    On 12/30/21 6:26 PM, Your Name wrote:
    On 2021-12-30 22:12:58 +0000, John W Kennedy said:
    On 12/30/21 3:30 PM, Your Name wrote:
    On 2021-12-30 17:39:24 +0000, Dorothy J Heydt said:
    In article <u4qrsg1ofs6t5304674djqlt5m2b5d144e@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person  <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 20:32:35 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
    On 2021-12-29 18:50:58 +0000, Lynn McGuire said:

    Over The Hedge: Can One Ever Eat Too Much Pie ?
    https://www.gocomics.com/overthehedge/2021/12/29

    No.

    Lynn

    Greatly depends on what's in the pie.

    For example, 'pumpkin pie' is simply digusting so even a tiny bit on
    the end of a toothpick is far too much.

    De gustibus non est disputandum.

    Surprises in Amazon's efforts to provide canned fruit have >>>>>>>>>> exposed me to two fruits I never had when growing up but have heard >>>>>>>>>> about: gooseberries and rhubarb.

    I didn't like them; I suspect they are an acquired taste.

    But bake them into a pie with enough sugar and I suspect they would >>>>>>>>>> taste a whole lot better to me.

    Rhubarb pie (with, yes, sufficient sugar) is delectable.  I have never
    encountered gooseberries.

    Usually a rhubarb pie or crumble has some other fruit (e.g. Apple) >>>>>>>> mixed in as well to cut done on the amount of sugar needed.

    The gooseberry has other names too, including "goldenberry" and >>>>>>>> "ground berry". Mostly they are used for jam (or "jelly" if you're >>>>>>>> a word redefining American), but can be used in pies too.

    The use of "jelly"? to designate a clarified fruit-based production, >>>>>>> with no use of animal gelatin, is at least as old as the 1855
    edition of Mrs. Acton's "Modern Cookery", published by Longman.

    "Jam" is a spreadable topping you put on toast or between layers of >>>>>> sponge cake. (I would say used on scones, but then that opens up yet >>>>>> another rabbit hole of misued American definitions).

    "Jelly" is a wobbly desert used in trifles, etc., although there are >>>>>> also things like mint "jelly" (as oposed to "mint sauce") which goes >>>>>> with roast lamb.

    Gooseberries can actually be used for both a jam and a jelly.

    "You're just contradicting everything I say! That's not an argument!" >>>>
    I'm simply telling you the *facts* of the *English* language and the
    Americanisations that are incorrect in the *English* language.


    Still nothing but evidence-free contradiction, backed by what might,
    perhaps, be called a sort of vocabular creationism.

    Yes, he does seem awful insistent on defining /British English/ as the
    One True English, doesn't he.

    I wonder if there is regional variation in England on the meanings of
    jam and jelly? We had to pick up our usage somewhere after all.

    Most silly Americanisations are due to either:

    A. Making up words and definitions to suit themselves, and then
    trying to enforce that on everyone else,
    (same as Microsoft deciding to make up HTML "standards" to
    suit themselves and then trying to force everyone else to
    use them),

    or

    B. Continuing to stubbornly use ye olde English definitions
    that have long since been out-dated in real *English*.

    Either way, the Americanisations are simply incorrect.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lynn McGuire@21:1/5 to Your Name on Mon Jan 3 18:57:14 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 1/3/2022 12:45 AM, Your Name wrote:
    ...
    Most silly Americanisations are due to either:

    A.  Making up words and definitions to suit themselves, and then
       trying to enforce that on everyone else,
       (same as Microsoft deciding to make up HTML "standards" to
        suit themselves and then trying to force everyone else to
        use them),

    or

    B.  Continuing to stubbornly use ye olde English definitions
       that have long since been out-dated in real *English*.

    Either way, the Americanisations are simply incorrect.

    Looks like you need to be acquainted with Jame Nicoll.

    https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/694108-the-problem-with-defending-the-purity-of-the-english-language

    "“The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow
    words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways
    to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.”

    ― James D. Nicoll"

    Lynn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to Lynn McGuire on Tue Jan 4 16:03:08 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 2022-01-04 00:57:14 +0000, Lynn McGuire said:

    On 1/3/2022 12:45 AM, Your Name wrote:
    ...
    Most silly Americanisations are due to either:

    A.  Making up words and definitions to suit themselves, and then
       trying to enforce that on everyone else,
       (same as Microsoft deciding to make up HTML "standards" to
        suit themselves and then trying to force everyone else to
        use them),

    or

    B.  Continuing to stubbornly use ye olde English definitions
       that have long since been out-dated in real *English*.

    Either way, the Americanisations are simply incorrect.

    Looks like you need to be acquainted with Jame Nicoll.

    https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/694108-the-problem-with-defending-the-purity-of-the-english-language


    "“The problem with defending the purity of the English language is
    that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just
    borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down
    alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.”

    ― James D. Nicoll"

    Lynn

    I never said English was "pure" nor that it didn't use words from
    *other* languages. It's not. It separate lanuage that uses a mixture of
    words from various other languages.

    I said Americans misuse the *English* language with their own spellings
    and definitions, and try to enforce those incorrect versions on the
    entire *English* speaking world. All that achieves is to simply cause a confused mess and harder for non-speakers to learn (as if the abundance
    of "rule" breaking words wasn't already enough). Even apparently simple
    things like dates on magazines and newspapers have slowly been switched
    over to the ass-backwards American version, rather than proper English.

    If Americans wanted their own language, then they should have actually
    made their own, but if they want to use *English* they should adhere to
    the way the *English* people define it.

    That doesn't mean there aren't localised words (e.g. "dunny" being
    Australian for toilet), but they aren't usually very different
    definitions or spellings for the same word.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joy Beeson@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 3 23:37:56 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On Fri, 31 Dec 2021 18:37:32 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
    wrote:

    It's not like home canning is extinct - I'm currently enjoying
    a nice cherry-plum (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prunus_cerasifera)
    jam on my morning english muffin.

    Over a 100 jars of cherry-plum jam and grape jelly, all from the
    back yard.

    I gave away my canner, but still open-kettle pickles every summer.

    Preserves can also be open kettled, but I can no longer eat that much
    sugar. Mom would put a chunk of wax in the bottom of each sterile
    half-pint jar, then pour in boiling preserves. The wax would melt and
    rise to the top, making an air-tight seal.

    She stopped doing that after we got a freezer big enough to put a calf
    in. She also kept a multi-gallon container of ice cream in the
    freezer. We would put the syrup of strawberry preserves on our ice
    cream, and eat the berries on bread. (One house guest pigged out when
    she learned that she could have all the ice cream she wanted -- but
    after a few days, couldn't be bothered to go to the freezer and get
    it.)

    ------------

    "preserves", by the way, are whole berries or bite-size chunks of
    fruit preserved in a syrup made by drawing juice out with dry sugar.
    Mom used equal parts by volume of strawberries and white sugar. I
    think. I'm pretty sure my niece has the orignal copy of the recipe.

    Jam is crushed fruit, preserved with sugar. There is no syrup. I
    never made jam, so I'm fuzzy on the details.

    Jelly is gelled fruit juice. The juice doesn't have to be filtered
    off clear, and tastes better if you don't.

    Commercial jelly is nearly always clear, because the important part is
    looking sparkley when unmolded onto a plate, not taste or ability to
    spread it on toast. Also, clear juice looks like food color, syrup,
    "natural" flavoring, and lots and lots of pectin.

    --
    Joy Beeson, U.S.A., mostly central Hoosier,
    some Northern Indiana, Upstate New York, Florida, and Hawaii
    joy beeson at centurylink dot net http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
    The above message is a Usenet post.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joy Beeson@21:1/5 to robertaw@drizzle.com on Mon Jan 3 23:33:56 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 10:19:58 -0800, Robert Woodward
    <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:

    The house that my parents bought when I was 13 had several acres of land attached to it which included a rhubarb patch. Mom baked several rhubarb
    pies each summer.

    My mom made rhubarb pies, but most of her crop went into "rhubarb
    juice", a sort of pink lemonade.

    After I grew up, I learned that rhubarb juice is quite tasty and
    refreshing without sugar if you make it with raw rhubarb in a blender
    instead of boiling it: an inch or two of petiole in a pint of water.

    --
    Joy Beeson
    joy beeson at centurylink dot net
    http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to Joy Beeson on Tue Jan 4 18:19:40 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 2022-01-04 04:33:56 +0000, Joy Beeson said:
    On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 10:19:58 -0800, Robert Woodward
    <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:

    The house that my parents bought when I was 13 had several acres of land
    attached to it which included a rhubarb patch. Mom baked several rhubarb
    pies each summer.

    My mom made rhubarb pies, but most of her crop went into "rhubarb
    juice", a sort of pink lemonade.

    After I grew up, I learned that rhubarb juice is quite tasty and
    refreshing without sugar if you make it with raw rhubarb in a blender
    instead of boiling it: an inch or two of petiole in a pint of water.

    I nearly misread that as "an inch or two of petrol" ... which would
    give it an "interesting" flavour. ;-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scott Lurndal@21:1/5 to Your Name on Tue Jan 4 14:59:56 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> writes:
    On 2022-01-04 04:33:56 +0000, Joy Beeson said:
    On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 10:19:58 -0800, Robert Woodward
    <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:

    The house that my parents bought when I was 13 had several acres of land >>> attached to it which included a rhubarb patch. Mom baked several rhubarb >>> pies each summer.

    My mom made rhubarb pies, but most of her crop went into "rhubarb
    juice", a sort of pink lemonade.

    After I grew up, I learned that rhubarb juice is quite tasty and
    refreshing without sugar if you make it with raw rhubarb in a blender
    instead of boiling it: an inch or two of petiole in a pint of water.

    I nearly misread that as "an inch or two of petrol" ... which would
    give it an "interesting" flavour. ;-)


    The proper word is Gasoline, not Petrol. If you used the correct
    word, your confusion would have been avoided.

    :-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dorothy J Heydt@21:1/5 to lynnmcguire5@gmail.com on Tue Jan 4 14:10:35 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    In article <sr061b$9lo$1@dont-email.me>,
    Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 1/3/2022 12:45 AM, Your Name wrote:
    ...
    Most silly Americanisations are due to either:

    A.  Making up words and definitions to suit themselves, and then
       trying to enforce that on everyone else,
       (same as Microsoft deciding to make up HTML "standards" to
        suit themselves and then trying to force everyone else to
        use them),

    or

    B.  Continuing to stubbornly use ye olde English definitions
       that have long since been out-dated in real *English*.

    Either way, the Americanisations are simply incorrect.

    Looks like you need to be acquainted with Jame Nicoll.

    https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/694108-the-problem-with-defending-the-purity-of-the-english-language

    "“The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that >English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow
    words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways
    to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.”

    ― James D. Nicoll"

    Yeah.

    --
    Dorothy J. Heydt
    Vallejo, California
    djheydt at gmail dot com
    Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Quinn C@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 4 14:04:13 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    * Your Name:

    On 2022-01-03 05:43:54 +0000, Robert Woodward said:
    In article <2ro3tgtatsau35heou1s4lk1giol1sm4b0@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Sat, 1 Jan 2022 19:40:02 -0500, John W Kennedy
    <john.w.kennedy@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 12/31/21 9:28 PM, Your Name wrote:
    On 2022-01-01 00:40:13 +0000, John W Kennedy said:
    On 12/30/21 6:26 PM, Your Name wrote:
    On 2021-12-30 22:12:58 +0000, John W Kennedy said:
    On 12/30/21 3:30 PM, Your Name wrote:
    On 2021-12-30 17:39:24 +0000, Dorothy J Heydt said:
    In article <u4qrsg1ofs6t5304674djqlt5m2b5d144e@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person  <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 20:32:35 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
    wrote:
    On 2021-12-29 18:50:58 +0000, Lynn McGuire said:

    Over The Hedge: Can One Ever Eat Too Much Pie ?
    https://www.gocomics.com/overthehedge/2021/12/29

    No.

    Lynn

    Greatly depends on what's in the pie.

    For example, 'pumpkin pie' is simply digusting so even a tiny bit on
    the end of a toothpick is far too much.

    De gustibus non est disputandum.

    Surprises in Amazon's efforts to provide canned fruit have >>>>>>>>>>> exposed me to two fruits I never had when growing up but have heard >>>>>>>>>>> about: gooseberries and rhubarb.

    I didn't like them; I suspect they are an acquired taste. >>>>>>>>>>>
    But bake them into a pie with enough sugar and I suspect they would >>>>>>>>>>> taste a whole lot better to me.

    Rhubarb pie (with, yes, sufficient sugar) is delectable.  I have never
    encountered gooseberries.

    Usually a rhubarb pie or crumble has some other fruit (e.g. Apple) >>>>>>>>> mixed in as well to cut done on the amount of sugar needed.

    The gooseberry has other names too, including "goldenberry" and >>>>>>>>> "ground berry". Mostly they are used for jam (or "jelly" if you're >>>>>>>>> a word redefining American), but can be used in pies too.

    The use of "jelly"? to designate a clarified fruit-based production, >>>>>>>> with no use of animal gelatin, is at least as old as the 1855
    edition of Mrs. Acton's "Modern Cookery", published by Longman. >>>>>>>
    "Jam" is a spreadable topping you put on toast or between layers of >>>>>>> sponge cake. (I would say used on scones, but then that opens up yet >>>>>>> another rabbit hole of misued American definitions).

    "Jelly" is a wobbly desert used in trifles, etc., although there are >>>>>>> also things like mint "jelly" (as oposed to "mint sauce") which goes >>>>>>> with roast lamb.

    Gooseberries can actually be used for both a jam and a jelly.

    "You're just contradicting everything I say! That's not an argument!" >>>>>
    I'm simply telling you the *facts* of the *English* language and the >>>>> Americanisations that are incorrect in the *English* language.


    Still nothing but evidence-free contradiction, backed by what might,
    perhaps, be called a sort of vocabular creationism.

    Yes, he does seem awful insistent on defining /British English/ as the
    One True English, doesn't he.

    I wonder if there is regional variation in England on the meanings of
    jam and jelly? We had to pick up our usage somewhere after all.

    Most silly Americanisations are due to either:

    A. Making up words and definitions to suit themselves, and then
    trying to enforce that on everyone else,
    (same as Microsoft deciding to make up HTML "standards" to
    suit themselves and then trying to force everyone else to
    use them),

    or

    B. Continuing to stubbornly use ye olde English definitions
    that have long since been out-dated in real *English*.

    Either way, the Americanisations are simply incorrect.

    The *English* invented "marmalade", as if it was something different
    than jam made from citrus fruits, and in EU times, tried to force that distinction even upon non-English speaking people.

    --
    It was frequently the fastest way to find what he was looking
    for, provided that he was looking for trouble.
    -- L. McMaster Bujold, Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Stephen Harker@21:1/5 to Your Name on Wed Jan 5 06:07:37 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> writes:

    On 2022-01-04 00:57:14 +0000, Lynn McGuire said:

    On 1/3/2022 12:45 AM, Your Name wrote:
    ...
    [...]
    Either way, the Americanisations are simply incorrect.

    Looks like you need to be acquainted with Jame Nicoll.
    https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/694108-the-problem-with-defending-the-purity-of-the-english-language


    "“The problem with defending the purity of the English language is
    that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just
    borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down
    alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new
    vocabulary.â€

    ― James D. Nicoll"

    Lynn

    I never said English was "pure" nor that it didn't use words from
    *other* languages. It's not. It separate lanuage that uses a mixture
    of words from various other languages.

    I said Americans misuse the *English* language with their own
    spellings and definitions, and try to enforce those incorrect versions
    on the entire *English* speaking world. All that achieves is to simply
    cause a confused mess and harder for non-speakers to learn (as if the abundance of "rule" breaking words wasn't already enough). Even
    apparently simple things like dates on magazines and newspapers have
    slowly been switched over to the ass-backwards American version,
    rather than proper English.

    If Americans wanted their own language, then they should have actually
    made their own, but if they want to use *English* they should adhere
    to the way the *English* people define it.

    That doesn't mean there aren't localised words (e.g. "dunny" being
    Australian for toilet), but they aren't usually very different
    definitions or spellings for the same word.

    Back in the good old days people would spell words how they felt on the
    day. Shakespeare wrote his name with a range of spelling. The idea of standardised spelling took a long while to be established, codified and accepted. Even then there are differences between cusomary spelling and dictionary spelling: for example OED prefers civilize but civilise is
    common in much of British/Commonwealth spelling.

    --
    Stephen Harker sjharker@netspace.net.au
    was: http://sjharker.customer.netspace.net.au/
    now: http://members.iinet.net.au/~sjharker@netspace.net.au/
    or: http://members.iinet.net.au/~sjharker_nbn/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to Scott Lurndal on Wed Jan 5 08:57:03 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 2022-01-04 14:59:56 +0000, Scott Lurndal said:

    Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> writes:
    On 2022-01-04 04:33:56 +0000, Joy Beeson said:
    On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 10:19:58 -0800, Robert Woodward
    <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:

    The house that my parents bought when I was 13 had several acres of land >>>> attached to it which included a rhubarb patch. Mom baked several rhubarb >>>> pies each summer.

    My mom made rhubarb pies, but most of her crop went into "rhubarb
    juice", a sort of pink lemonade.

    After I grew up, I learned that rhubarb juice is quite tasty and
    refreshing without sugar if you make it with raw rhubarb in a blender
    instead of boiling it: an inch or two of petiole in a pint of water.

    I nearly misread that as "an inch or two of petrol" ... which would
    give it an "interesting" flavour. ;-)

    The proper word is Gasoline, not Petrol. If you used the correct
    word, your confusion would have been avoided.

    :-)

    "Petrol" is the correct *English* word ... "gasoline" is yet another of
    those many silly Americanisms.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to Stephen Harker on Wed Jan 5 09:16:32 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 2022-01-04 19:07:37 +0000, Stephen Harker said:
    Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> writes:
    On 2022-01-04 00:57:14 +0000, Lynn McGuire said:
    On 1/3/2022 12:45 AM, Your Name wrote:
    ...
    [...]
    Either way, the Americanisations are simply incorrect.

    Looks like you need to be acquainted with Jame Nicoll.
    https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/694108-the-problem-with-defending-the-purity-of-the-english-language



    "“The problem with defending the purity of the English language is >>> that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just
    borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down
    alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new
    vocabulary.â€

    ― James D. Nicoll"

    Lynn

    I never said English was "pure" nor that it didn't use words from
    *other* languages. It's not. It separate lanuage that uses a mixture
    of words from various other languages.

    I said Americans misuse the *English* language with their own
    spellings and definitions, and try to enforce those incorrect versions
    on the entire *English* speaking world. All that achieves is to simply
    cause a confused mess and harder for non-speakers to learn (as if the
    abundance of "rule" breaking words wasn't already enough). Even
    apparently simple things like dates on magazines and newspapers have
    slowly been switched over to the ass-backwards American version,
    rather than proper English.

    If Americans wanted their own language, then they should have actually
    made their own, but if they want to use *English* they should adhere
    to the way the *English* people define it.

    That doesn't mean there aren't localised words (e.g. "dunny" being
    Australian for toilet), but they aren't usually very different
    definitions or spellings for the same word.

    Back in the good old days people would spell words how they felt on the
    day. Shakespeare wrote his name with a range of spelling.

    That's because "Shakespeare" either didn't really exist OR everything
    "written" by him was really written by various other people. ;-)




    The idea of standardised spelling took a long while to be established, codified and accepted. Even then there are differences between
    cusomary spelling and dictionary spelling: for example OED prefers
    civilize but civilise is common in much of British/Commonwealth
    spelling.

    Technically the "z" words were the originals, but these days are more
    silly Americanisations. The proper *English* spellings were changed to
    now use "s".

    Similarly with leaving the "u" out of words like "colour" and "flavour"
    also being due to Americans stubbornly sticking to now out-dated ye
    olde English (as sniped from the top quote).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John W Kennedy@21:1/5 to Your Name on Tue Jan 4 16:37:56 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 1/4/22 2:57 PM, Your Name wrote:
    On 2022-01-04 14:59:56 +0000, Scott Lurndal said:

    Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> writes:
    On 2022-01-04 04:33:56 +0000, Joy Beeson said:
    On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 10:19:58 -0800, Robert Woodward
    <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:

    The house that my parents bought when I was 13 had several acres of
    land
    attached to it which included a rhubarb patch. Mom baked several
    rhubarb
    pies each summer.

    My mom made rhubarb pies, but most of her crop went into "rhubarb
    juice", a sort of pink lemonade.

    After I grew up, I learned that rhubarb juice is quite tasty and
    refreshing without sugar if you make it with raw rhubarb in a blender
    instead of boiling it:  an inch or two of petiole in a pint of water.

    I nearly misread that as "an inch or two of petrol" ... which would
    give it an "interesting" flavour.  ;-)

    The proper word is Gasoline, not Petrol.  If you used the correct
    word, your confusion would have been avoided.

    :-)

    "Petrol" is the correct *English* word ... "gasoline" is yet another of
    those many silly Americanisms.

    Actually, “petrol” is French, and “gasoline” is Anglo-Irish (and thirty years older).

    --
    John W. Kennedy
    Algernon Burbage, Lord Roderick, Father Martin, Bishop Baldwin,
    King Pellinore, Captain Bailey, Merlin -- A Kingdom for a Stage!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to John W Kennedy on Wed Jan 5 12:50:58 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 2022-01-04 21:37:56 +0000, John W Kennedy said:
    On 1/4/22 2:57 PM, Your Name wrote:
    On 2022-01-04 14:59:56 +0000, Scott Lurndal said:
    Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> writes:
    On 2022-01-04 04:33:56 +0000, Joy Beeson said:
    On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 10:19:58 -0800, Robert Woodward
    <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:

    The house that my parents bought when I was 13 had several acres of land >>>>>> attached to it which included a rhubarb patch. Mom baked several rhubarb >>>>>> pies each summer.

    My mom made rhubarb pies, but most of her crop went into "rhubarb
    juice", a sort of pink lemonade.

    After I grew up, I learned that rhubarb juice is quite tasty and
    refreshing without sugar if you make it with raw rhubarb in a blender >>>>> instead of boiling it:  an inch or two of petiole in a pint of water. >>>>
    I nearly misread that as "an inch or two of petrol" ... which would
    give it an "interesting" flavour.  ;-)

    The proper word is Gasoline, not Petrol.  If you used the correct
    word, your confusion would have been avoided.

    :-)

    "Petrol" is the correct *English* word ... "gasoline" is yet another of
    those many silly Americanisms.

    Actually, “petrol” is French, and “gasoline” is Anglo-Irish (and thirty
    years older).

    As previously said, it doesn't matetr that a word is older. It's simply
    yet another example of Americans stubbornly stick to the old out-dated
    word while proper English has moved on.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don@21:1/5 to Dorothy J Heydt on Sat Jan 8 16:40:02 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
    Joy Beeson wrote:
    Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
    Lynn McGuire wrote:
    Over The Hedge: Can One Ever Eat Too Much Pie ?
    https://www.gocomics.com/overthehedge/2021/12/29

    No.

    Well, diabetes....

    And there's fitting through doorways.

    Ernestine Schuman-Heink (1861-1936) was an operatic contralto of
    not inconsiderable mass (although judging by many photographs on
    Wikipedia, she wasn't all *that* huge. One of her common roles
    was the Witch in _Haensel und Gretel_. The tale is told that she
    was scheduled to perform with a large symphony orchestra; the
    size of the orchestra is relevant, because the many players and
    their music stands packed the available space.

    So she was trying to get from the wings to the front of the
    stage, and there just wasn't room. The conductor whispered to
    her, "Go sideways, Madame!"

    She answered, in her magnificent contralto that filled the entire
    hall, "Mein Gott, es gibt kein Sideways!"

    LOL.

    Reminds me of _Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep_ (PKD) when bounty
    hunter Rick Deckard administers the Voight-Kampff empathy test to opera
    singer Luba Luft in order to discern whether she's an android. Deckard
    tests Luft in her dressing room where Luft does her level best to stall
    and out-think Deckard.

    [Deckard] selected his initial question. "You're sitting
    watching TV and suddenly you discover a wasp crawling on your
    wrist." He checked with his watch, counting the seconds. And
    checked, too, with the twin dials.
    "What's a wasp?" Luba Luft asked.
    "A stinging bug that flies."
    "Oh, how strange." Her immense eyes widened with childlike
    acceptance, as if he had revealed the cardinal mystery of
    creation. "Do they still exist? I've never seen one."
    "They died out because of the dust. Don't you really know
    what a wasp is? You must have been alive when there were wasps;
    that's only been --"
    "Tell me the German word."
    He tried to think of the German word for wasp but couldn't.
    "Your English is perfect," he said angrily.
    "My accent," she corrected, "is perfect. It has to be, for
    roles, for Purcell and Walton and Vaughn Williams. But my
    vocabulary isn't very large." She glanced at him shyly.
    "Wespe," he said, remembering the German word.
    "Ach yes; eine Wespe." She laughed. "And what was the
    question? I forget already."

    Eventually Luba Luft holds Deckard at (laser) gunpoint while she phones-
    in a sham SF Police Precinct staffed by androids...

    ... a large harness bull arrived in his archaic blue uniform
    with gun and star. ...

    Later, when alone with Deckard, the harness bull discloses:

    "That girl's quite a looker," Officer Crams said. "Of course,
    with that costume you can't tell about her figure. But I'd say
    it's damn okay."

    ###

    It recently came to my attention how Perry Rhodan audiobooks only use
    abridged versions of Moewig's original stories. It made me curious as to
    the commonality of abbreviated audio adaptations. And it turns out
    _Electric Sheep_'s audiobook:

    https://archive.org/details/DoAndroidsDreamOfElectricSheep

    is unabridged.

    Danke,

    --
    Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. https://crcomp.net/reviews.php telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,.
    tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)