• Queen Elizabeth and the Rohirrim

    From Louis Epstein@21:1/5 to All on Fri Feb 7 01:19:50 2020
    XPost: alt.fan.tolkien

    The only British monarch to have reigned since the publication of
    The Lord of the Rings has now completed 68 years on the throne.

    I have,under this subject heading,commented previously on the
    extent to which she has surpassed the reigns of all but Aldor of
    the Kings of Rohan,and the Prince of Wales the ages at accession
    of all but Frea,and with her 94th birthday in April the Queen
    should unquestionably place herself ahead of Eomer in longevity
    leaving only Aldor.

    It is not to be thought that she is at all likely to surpass
    all rulers of Arda,with Cirdan's lordship of the Havens and
    Thranduil's reign in Mirkwood likely multi-millennial,but I
    have betaken myself to the annals of the Kings of Numenore,
    Kings of Arnor,Kings of Gondor,Stewards of Gondor,Kings of
    Durin's Folk,Thains of the Shire,and Masters of Buckland
    to show the company she currently keeps on the record charts.
    Note that some of those listed are namesakes of better-known
    people from other eras or realms and not to be confused.

    Hereditary titleholders of Arda reigning between 60 and 100 years:

    Thorin I 99 years
    Nain II 97
    Arantar 96
    Gloin 96
    Thorin II 91
    Eldacar (Arnor) 90
    Cemendur 90
    Tar-Calmacil 88
    Tarondor 87
    Anardil 87
    Earendil 86
    Amlaith 85
    Earendur 84
    Faramir 84
    Beleg 83
    Tarannon Falastur 83
    Siriondil 82
    Mallor 81
    Celepharn 81
    Celebrindor 81
    Argeleb II 81
    Ostoher 81
    Atanatar I 81
    Hyarmendacil II 81
    Tarcil 80
    Araphor 80
    Calimehtar 80
    Ciryandil 79
    Tar-Palantir 78
    Araval 78
    Dain II 78
    Cirion 78
    Malvegil 77
    Atanatar II 77
    Ar-Gimilzor 75
    Aldor the Old 75
    Tar-Ardamin 74
    Arvegil 73
    Araphant 73
    Aravir 72
    Gerontius 72
    Ar-Zimrathon 71
    Arahael 71
    Arveleg II 70
    Aranuir 70
    Ar-Sakalthor 69
    Arahad I 68
    Narmacil I 68
    Aravorn 66
    Valacar 66
    Aragost 65
    Arahad II 65
    Arassuil 65
    Eomer 65
    Ar-Pharazon 64
    Arathorn I 64
    Argonui 64
    Ar-Adunakhor 63
    Romendacil II 62 (after 64 years as regent)
    Belecthor II 61

    Gondor's Eldacar was rightful king for 68 years but
    deposed for ten of them.


    Lifespans between 90 years and the 130 of the Old Took,
    Argeleb I of Arnor,and the Steward Belegorn:

    Hallas 125 years
    Earnur 122
    Barahir 122
    Telemnar 120
    Mardil 120
    Hurin I 120
    Belecthor II 120
    Faramir 120
    Pelendur 119
    Cirion 118
    Eradan 117
    Egalmoth 117
    Turin I 113
    Hurin II 113
    Herion 111
    Beregond 111
    Arvedui 110
    Arador 110
    Belecthor I 110
    Orodreth 109
    Beren 108
    Dior 107
    Rorimac Brandybuck 106
    Fortinbras I 103
    Gorbadoc Brandybuck 103
    Denethor I 102
    Isengrim II 102
    Fortinbras II 102
    Gormadoc Brandybuck 102
    Madoc Brandybuck 102
    Aldor the Old 101
    Isumbras IV 101
    Paladin II 101
    Arveleg I 100
    Aragorn I 100
    Thorondir 100
    Ferumbras II 100
    Turin II 99
    Ferumbras III 99
    Ecthelion I 98
    Turgon 98
    Ecthelion II 98
    Isengrim III 98
    Isumbras III 93
    Marmadoc Brandybuck 93
    Eomer 93
    Saradoc Brandybuck 92

    -=-=-
    The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
    at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Louis Epstein@21:1/5 to All on Wed Apr 22 00:00:17 2020
    XPost: alt.fan.tolkien

    The present monarch of Great Britain has now reached the age of ninety-four, never reached by Eomer (or Thain Isumbras III,or the Masters of Buckland Marmadoc and Saradoc Brandybuck)...only Aldor the Old among the Kings of
    the Mark remains as having reached a greater age.

    Shall she surpass him?

    -=-=-
    The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
    at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul S Person@21:1/5 to le@top.put.com on Wed Apr 22 09:41:20 2020
    XPost: alt.fan.tolkien

    On Wed, 22 Apr 2020 00:00:17 +0000 (UTC), Louis Epstein
    <le@top.put.com> wrote:

    The present monarch of Great Britain has now reached the age of ninety-four, >never reached by Eomer (or Thain Isumbras III,or the Masters of Buckland >Marmadoc and Saradoc Brandybuck)...only Aldor the Old among the Kings of
    the Mark remains as having reached a greater age.

    Shall she surpass him?

    Interesting question.

    But would not "Will she surpass him?" have been better?

    Or is this some Brit/American English thing?
    --
    "I begin to envy Petronius."
    "I have envied him long since."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Louis Epstein@21:1/5 to Paul S Person on Wed Apr 22 18:04:19 2020
    XPost: alt.fan.tolkien

    In alt.fan.tolkien Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Wed, 22 Apr 2020 00:00:17 +0000 (UTC), Louis Epstein
    <le@top.put.com> wrote:

    The present monarch of Great Britain has now reached the age of ninety-four, >>never reached by Eomer (or Thain Isumbras III,or the Masters of Buckland >>Marmadoc and Saradoc Brandybuck)...only Aldor the Old among the Kings of >>the Mark remains as having reached a greater age.

    Shall she surpass him?

    Interesting question.

    But would not "Will she surpass him?" have been better?

    Or is this some Brit/American English thing?

    I'm really not sure which word works best to what listener...
    but my intention is to ask whether it is going to happen,
    without implying a deliberate act unnecessarily.
    (To what extent is survival consciously willed and to what extent
    a consequence of life processes?)

    Interestingly,Her Majesty is entering into a gap between the
    lifespans of the various Kings,Chieftains,Thains,Masters,and Stewards
    with whom,besides Aldor,she is contending for longevity.
    None died at 94,95,96,or 97...but there were multiple
    deaths at surrounding ages.

    Rorimac Brandybuck 106
    Fortinbras I 103
    Gorbadoc Brandybuck 103
    Denethor I 102
    Isengrim II 102
    Fortinbras II 102
    Gormadoc Brandybuck 102
    Madoc Brandybuck 102
    Aldor the Old 101
    Isumbras IV 101
    Paladin II 101
    Arveleg I 100
    Aragorn I 100
    Thorondir 100
    Ferumbras II 100
    Turin II 99
    Ferumbras III 99
    Ecthelion I 98
    Turgon 98
    Ecthelion II 98
    Isengrim III 98
    Isumbras III 93
    Marmadoc Brandybuck 93
    Eomer 93
    Saradoc Brandybuck 92

    -=-=-
    The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
    at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Julian Bradfield@21:1/5 to Paul S Person on Wed Apr 22 21:25:14 2020
    XPost: alt.fan.tolkien

    On 2020-04-22, Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Wed, 22 Apr 2020 00:00:17 +0000 (UTC), Louis Epstein
    <le@top.put.com> wrote:

    The present monarch of Great Britain has now reached the age of ninety-four, >>never reached by Eomer (or Thain Isumbras III,or the Masters of Buckland >>Marmadoc and Saradoc Brandybuck)...only Aldor the Old among the Kings of >>the Mark remains as having reached a greater age.

    Shall she surpass him?

    Interesting question.

    But would not "Will she surpass him?" have been better?

    Or is this some Brit/American English thing?

    Don't think so - it's just wrong in both.
    "Shall she surpass him" only makes sense if you're holding a gun to
    her head in the minutes before she does, and asking somebody to decide
    whether you pull the trigger.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul S Person@21:1/5 to le@top.put.com on Thu Apr 23 09:20:09 2020
    XPost: alt.fan.tolkien

    On Wed, 22 Apr 2020 18:04:19 +0000 (UTC), Louis Epstein
    <le@top.put.com> wrote:

    In alt.fan.tolkien Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Wed, 22 Apr 2020 00:00:17 +0000 (UTC), Louis Epstein
    <le@top.put.com> wrote:

    The present monarch of Great Britain has now reached the age of ninety-four, >>>never reached by Eomer (or Thain Isumbras III,or the Masters of Buckland >>>Marmadoc and Saradoc Brandybuck)...only Aldor the Old among the Kings of >>>the Mark remains as having reached a greater age.

    Shall she surpass him?

    Interesting question.

    But would not "Will she surpass him?" have been better?

    Or is this some Brit/American English thing?

    I'm really not sure which word works best to what listener...
    but my intention is to ask whether it is going to happen,
    without implying a deliberate act unnecessarily.
    (To what extent is survival consciously willed and to what extent
    a consequence of life processes?)

    No doubt it reflects my age and education, but, in that case, "will"
    would be what you want -- for second and third person -- and "shall"
    would be a command to do what you ordered.

    In first person, just to make this even more pedantic, these meanings /reverse/: "I shall" indicates what you intend to do; "I will"
    indicates what you are going to do (or, at least, are determined to
    do, or are promising to do).

    With all that confusion, it is no wonder that these details are
    vanishing.

    I mean, really -- the meaning depends on the /person/ (1st vs 2nd or
    3rd, not who is being addressed or referred to).
    --
    "I begin to envy Petronius."
    "I have envied him long since."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Steve Hayes@21:1/5 to psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid on Sat Apr 25 07:38:16 2020
    XPost: alt.fan.tolkien

    On Thu, 23 Apr 2020 09:20:09 -0700, Paul S Person
    <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:

    No doubt it reflects my age and education, but, in that case, "will"
    would be what you want -- for second and third person -- and "shall"
    would be a command to do what you ordered.

    In first person, just to make this even more pedantic, these meanings >/reverse/: "I shall" indicates what you intend to do; "I will"
    indicates what you are going to do (or, at least, are determined to
    do, or are promising to do).

    In my idiolect "shall" in that context implies that the person asking
    wants to know whether surpassing him is a good idea or not, whereas
    "will" implies simple prediction.

    But according to Fowler's "Modern English Usage", the difference is
    north and south rather than East and West, and cites the case of a
    Scot who fell into an English river and was misunderstood when he
    shouted out "I shall drown, no one will save me."

    --
    Stephen Hayes, Author of The Year of the Dragon
    Sample or purchase The Year of the Dragon: https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/907935
    Web site: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
    Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
    E-mail: shayes@dunelm.org.uk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Julian Bradfield@21:1/5 to Steve Hayes on Sat Apr 25 09:38:05 2020
    XPost: alt.fan.tolkien

    On 2020-04-25, Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:
    But according to Fowler's "Modern English Usage", the difference is
    north and south rather than East and West, and cites the case of a
    Scot who fell into an English river and was misunderstood when he
    shouted out "I shall drown, no one will save me."

    You have that the wrong way round.
    he shouted "I will be drowned, no one shall save me."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Thomas Koenig@21:1/5 to Paul S Person on Sat Apr 25 16:04:10 2020
    XPost: alt.fan.tolkien

    Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> schrieb:

    No doubt it reflects my age and education, but, in that case, "will"
    would be what you want -- for second and third person -- and "shall"
    would be a command to do what you ordered.

    When I started learning English in the late 1970s, I learned that
    the future tense of the first person singular was "I shall".
    The books we were using were probably a bit dated, the text
    still had something about flying with BOAC.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Stan Brown@21:1/5 to Julian Bradfield on Sat Apr 25 08:27:20 2020
    XPost: alt.fan.tolkien

    On Sat, 25 Apr 2020 09:38:05 +0000 (UTC), Julian Bradfield wrote:

    On 2020-04-25, Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:
    But according to Fowler's "Modern English Usage", the difference is
    north and south rather than East and West, and cites the case of a
    Scot who fell into an English river and was misunderstood when he
    shouted out "I shall drown, no one will save me."

    You have that the wrong way round.
    he shouted "I will be drowned, no one shall save me."

    In any case, a couple of more recent books that I consulted say that
    the distinction is no longer observed by most people, with a few
    exceptions like "Shall we go?"

    --
    Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
    http://BrownMath.com/
    http://OakRoadSystems.com/
    Tolkien FAQs: http://Tolkien.slimy.com (Steuard Jensen)
    Tolkien letters FAQ: http://preview.tinyurl.com/pr6sa7u
    FAQ of the Rings: http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm
    Encyclopedia of Arda: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Louis Epstein@21:1/5 to All on Wed Apr 21 19:47:54 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.tolkien

    The British monarch in whose reign TLotR was first published,
    and was already first in line of succession when The Hobbit was
    published,turns 95 today.

    This does not affect her rank on the charts below (note the
    curious gap between two Thains),but ninety-five was Thorin II's
    age at the disappearance of Thrain II (though not at his death).

    The charts are nonetheless revised from the last appearance as
    I have included the named Princes of Dol Amroth among the holders
    of other hereditary titles (forbearing to add the UNnamed Princes
    thereof).

    The Queen continues to get closer to Aldor the Old and further
    ahead of Eomer,in terms of both life and reign.

    Named hereditary titleholders of Arda reigning between 60 and 100 years:

    Thorin I 99 years
    Nain II 97
    Arantar 96
    Gloin 96
    Thorin II 91
    Eldacar (Arnor) 90
    Cemendur 90
    Tar-Calmacil 88
    Tarondor (Arnor) 87
    Anardil 87
    Earendil 86
    Amlaith 85
    Earendur 84
    Faramir 84
    Beleg 83
    Tarannon Falastur 83
    Siriondil 82
    Mallor 81
    Celepharn 81
    Celebrindor 81
    Argeleb II 81
    Ostoher 81
    Atanatar I 81
    Hyarmendacil II 81
    Tarcil 80
    Araphor 80
    Calimehtar 80
    Ciryandil 79
    Tar-Palantir 78
    Araval 78
    Dain II 78
    Cirion 78
    Malvegil 77
    Atanatar II 77
    Ar-Gimilzor 75
    Aldor the Old 75
    Tar-Ardamin 74
    Arvegil 73
    Araphant 73
    Aravir 72
    Gerontius 72
    Ar-Zimrathon 71
    Arahael 71
    Arveleg II 70
    Aranuir 70
    Ar-Sakalthor 69
    Arahad I 68
    Narmacil I 68
    Aravorn 66
    Valacar 66
    Aragost 65
    Arahad II 65
    Arassuil 65
    Eomer 65
    Ar-Pharazon 64
    Arathorn I 64
    Argonui 64
    Ar-Adunakhor 63
    Romendacil II 62 (after 64 years as regent)
    Belecthor II 61

    Gondor's Eldacar reigned only 58 years
    de jure and 48 de facto.Gondor's Tarondor
    reigned 162 years.


    Lifespans between 90 years and the 130 of the Old Took,
    Argeleb I of Arnor,and the Steward Belegorn:

    Hallas 125 years
    Earnur 122
    Barahir 122
    Telemnar 120
    Mardil 120
    Hurin I 120
    Belecthor II 120
    Faramir 120
    Pelendur 119
    Cirion 118
    Eradan 117
    Egalmoth 117
    Turin I 113
    Hurin II 113
    Herion 111
    Beregond 111
    Angelimir 111
    Arvedui 110
    Arador 110
    Belecthor I 110
    Orodreth 109
    Beren 108
    Dior 107
    Rorimac Brandybuck 106
    Aglahad 105
    Fortinbras I 103
    Gorbadoc Brandybuck 103
    Denethor I 102
    Isengrim II 102
    Fortinbras II 102
    Gormadoc Brandybuck 102
    Madoc Brandybuck 102
    Aldor the Old 101
    Isumbras IV 101
    Paladin II 101
    Elphir 101
    Arveleg I 100
    Aragorn I 100
    Thorondir 100
    Ferumbras II 100
    Imrahil 100
    Turin II 99
    Ferumbras III 99
    Alphros 99
    Ecthelion I 98
    Turgon 98
    Ecthelion II 98
    Isengrim III 98
    Isumbras III 93
    Marmadoc Brandybuck 93
    Eomer 93
    Saradoc Brandybuck 92

    -=-=-
    The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
    at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Louis Epstein@21:1/5 to All on Sun Nov 14 21:37:07 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.tolkien

    Normally I post under this subject on anniversaries of the
    birth and accession of Queen Elizabeth II (still the only
    British monarch under whom TLotR has been in print and now
    older and longer-reigning than any monarch of Rohan but
    Aldor the Old) but today I write on the birthday of the
    Prince of Wales,who is 73 and not king yet (of course we
    hope the Queen recovers from her current illness).

    Only Frea,son of Aldor,acceded at a greater age than the
    Prince.

    Kings Gram and Folcwine died at 73.

    Eorl,Brego,Helm,Frealaf,Walda,Folca,and Theoden died younger
    than the Prince.

    In the next two years he overtakes Deor and Thengel.

    -=-=-
    The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
    at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Louis Epstein@21:1/5 to All on Sun Feb 6 08:17:45 2022
    XPost: alt.fan.tolkien

    I periodically post on this header to reflect on the evolving
    standing of the reign of the present British monarch (still
    the only one in whose reign TLotR has been in print,and already
    first in line when even The Hobbit was published) in relation
    to the hereditary titleholders of Arda.

    Her Majesty now completes seventy years of reign,definitively
    surpassing Ar-Sakalthor of Numenor and drawing abreast of
    Arveleg II of Arnor and his descendant Aranuir,Chieftain of
    the Dunedain.Aldor the Old remains the only ruler of Rohan
    to have lived or reigned longer but his margin by both measures
    shrinks by the day as the Queen leaves Eomer ever further behind.

    Named hereditary titleholders of Arda reigning between 60 and 100 years:

    Thorin I 99 years
    Nain II 97
    Arantar 96
    Gloin 96
    Thorin II 91
    Eldacar (Arnor) 90
    Cemendur 90
    Tar-Calmacil 88
    Tarondor (Arnor) 87
    Anardil 87
    Earendil 86
    Amlaith 85
    Earendur 84
    Faramir 84
    Beleg 83
    Tarannon Falastur 83
    Siriondil 82
    Mallor 81
    Celepharn 81
    Celebrindor 81
    Argeleb II 81
    Ostoher 81
    Atanatar I 81
    Hyarmendacil II 81
    Tarcil 80
    Araphor 80
    Calimehtar 80
    Ciryandil 79
    Tar-Palantir 78
    Araval 78
    Dain II 78
    Cirion 78
    Malvegil 77
    Atanatar II 77
    Ar-Gimilzor 75
    Aldor the Old 75
    Tar-Ardamin 74
    Arvegil 73
    Araphant 73
    Aravir 72
    Gerontius 72
    Ar-Zimrathon 71
    Arahael 71
    Arveleg II 70
    Aranuir 70
    Ar-Sakalthor 69
    Arahad I 68
    Narmacil I 68
    Aravorn 66
    Valacar 66
    Aragost 65
    Arahad II 65
    Arassuil 65
    Eomer 65
    Ar-Pharazon 64
    Arathorn I 64
    Argonui 64
    Ar-Adunakhor 63
    Romendacil II 62 (after 64 years as regent)
    Belecthor II 61

    Gondor's Eldacar reigned only 58 years
    de jure and 48 de facto.Gondor's Tarondor
    reigned 162 years.


    Lifespans between 90 years and the 130 of the Old Took,
    Argeleb I of Arnor,and the Steward Belegorn:

    Hallas 125 years
    Earnur 122
    Barahir 122
    Telemnar 120
    Mardil 120
    Hurin I 120
    Belecthor II 120
    Faramir 120
    Pelendur 119
    Cirion 118
    Eradan 117
    Egalmoth 117
    Turin I 113
    Hurin II 113
    Herion 111
    Beregond 111
    Angelimir 111
    Arvedui 110
    Arador 110
    Belecthor I 110
    Orodreth 109
    Beren 108
    Dior 107
    Rorimac Brandybuck 106
    Aglahad 105
    Fortinbras I 103
    Gorbadoc Brandybuck 103
    Denethor I 102
    Isengrim II 102
    Fortinbras II 102
    Gormadoc Brandybuck 102
    Madoc Brandybuck 102
    Aldor the Old 101
    Isumbras IV 101
    Paladin II 101
    Elphir 101
    Arveleg I 100
    Aragorn I 100
    Thorondir 100
    Ferumbras II 100
    Imrahil 100
    Turin II 99
    Ferumbras III 99
    Alphros 99
    Ecthelion I 98
    Turgon 98
    Ecthelion II 98
    Isengrim III 98
    Isumbras III 93
    Marmadoc Brandybuck 93
    Eomer 93
    Saradoc Brandybuck 92


    -=-=-
    The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
    at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Louis Epstein@21:1/5 to Louis Epstein on Fri Apr 22 17:50:46 2022
    XPost: alt.fan.tolkien

    Louis Epstein <le@top.put.com> wrote:

    [always intended as crosspost but this time I forgot]

    The list below has not been augmented this time,there is
    unlikely to be additional scholarship to extend it,but I
    repost as ever on the birthday of the only British monarch
    in whose reign TLotR has been in print...the Queen is now 96.
    On the list below she remains in the gap between the 3-way tie
    at 93 (including Eomer) and the 4-way tie at 98 (including
    3 Stewards of Gondor and a Thain).

    It bears noting that she is the first British monarch to reach
    82 let alone 96...in that 14-year span she has passed five Kings
    of Rohan,most recently Eomer,and only Aldor the Old of that realm
    remains ahead of her,as he does in years of reign as well (Eomer's
    65 years exceeding any prior Briton).

    Named hereditary titleholders of Arda reigning between 60 and 100 years:

    Thorin I 99 years
    Nain II 97
    Arantar 96
    Gloin 96
    Thorin II 91
    Eldacar (Arnor) 90
    Cemendur 90
    Tar-Calmacil 88
    Tarondor (Arnor) 87
    Anardil 87
    Earendil 86
    Amlaith 85
    Earendur 84
    Faramir 84
    Beleg 83
    Tarannon Falastur 83
    Siriondil 82
    Mallor 81
    Celepharn 81
    Celebrindor 81
    Argeleb II 81
    Ostoher 81
    Atanatar I 81
    Hyarmendacil II 81
    Tarcil 80
    Araphor 80
    Calimehtar 80
    Ciryandil 79
    Tar-Palantir 78
    Araval 78
    Dain II 78
    Cirion 78
    Malvegil 77
    Atanatar II 77
    Ar-Gimilzor 75
    Aldor the Old 75
    Tar-Ardamin 74
    Arvegil 73
    Araphant 73
    Aravir 72
    Gerontius 72
    Ar-Zimrathon 71
    Arahael 71
    Arveleg II 70
    Aranuir 70
    Ar-Sakalthor 69
    Arahad I 68
    Narmacil I 68
    Aravorn 66
    Valacar 66
    Aragost 65
    Arahad II 65
    Arassuil 65
    Eomer 65
    Ar-Pharazon 64
    Arathorn I 64
    Argonui 64
    Ar-Adunakhor 63
    Romendacil II 62 (after 64 years as regent)
    Belecthor II 61

    Gondor's Eldacar reigned only 58 years
    de jure and 48 de facto.Gondor's Tarondor
    reigned 162 years.


    Lifespans between 90 years and the 130 of the Old Took,
    Argeleb I of Arnor,and the Steward Belegorn:

    Hallas 125 years
    Earnur 122
    Barahir 122
    Telemnar 120
    Mardil 120
    Hurin I 120
    Belecthor II 120
    Faramir 120
    Pelendur 119
    Cirion 118
    Eradan 117
    Egalmoth 117
    Turin I 113
    Hurin II 113
    Herion 111
    Beregond 111
    Angelimir 111
    Arvedui 110
    Arador 110
    Belecthor I 110
    Orodreth 109
    Beren 108
    Dior 107
    Rorimac Brandybuck 106
    Aglahad 105
    Fortinbras I 103
    Gorbadoc Brandybuck 103
    Denethor I 102
    Isengrim II 102
    Fortinbras II 102
    Gormadoc Brandybuck 102
    Madoc Brandybuck 102
    Aldor the Old 101
    Isumbras IV 101
    Paladin II 101
    Elphir 101
    Arveleg I 100
    Aragorn I 100
    Thorondir 100
    Ferumbras II 100
    Imrahil 100
    Turin II 99
    Ferumbras III 99
    Alphros 99
    Ecthelion I 98
    Turgon 98
    Ecthelion II 98
    Isengrim III 98
    Isumbras III 93
    Marmadoc Brandybuck 93
    Eomer 93
    Saradoc Brandybuck 92


    -=-=-
    The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
    at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Louis Epstein@21:1/5 to Louis Epstein on Mon May 9 05:18:08 2022
    XPost: alt.fan.tolkien

    In rec.arts.books.tolkien Louis Epstein <le@top.put.com> wrote:
    Louis Epstein <le@top.put.com> wrote:


    Might as well tuck into this thread as it's related to the
    Queen's length of reign...may she move beyond Arveleg II and
    Aranuir...

    A "Big Jubilee Read" list of 70 books to read published during her 70
    years of reign (released about the time of her birthday) does NOT
    include TLotR (ranked first in 2003's "Big Read") or any other Tolkien
    book.

    The list below has not been augmented this time,there is
    unlikely to be additional scholarship to extend it,but I
    repost as ever on the birthday of the only British monarch
    in whose reign TLotR has been in print...the Queen is now 96.
    On the list below she remains in the gap between the 3-way tie
    at 93 (including Eomer) and the 4-way tie at 98 (including
    3 Stewards of Gondor and a Thain).

    It bears noting that she is the first British monarch to reach
    82 let alone 96...in that 14-year span she has passed five Kings
    of Rohan,most recently Eomer,and only Aldor the Old of that realm
    remains ahead of her,as he does in years of reign as well (Eomer's
    65 years exceeding any prior Briton).

    Named hereditary titleholders of Arda reigning between 60 and 100 years:

    Thorin I 99 years
    Nain II 97
    Arantar 96
    Gloin 96
    Thorin II 91
    Eldacar (Arnor) 90
    Cemendur 90
    Tar-Calmacil 88
    Tarondor (Arnor) 87
    Anardil 87
    Earendil 86
    Amlaith 85
    Earendur 84
    Faramir 84
    Beleg 83
    Tarannon Falastur 83
    Siriondil 82
    Mallor 81
    Celepharn 81
    Celebrindor 81
    Argeleb II 81
    Ostoher 81
    Atanatar I 81
    Hyarmendacil II 81
    Tarcil 80
    Araphor 80
    Calimehtar 80
    Ciryandil 79
    Tar-Palantir 78
    Araval 78
    Dain II 78
    Cirion 78
    Malvegil 77
    Atanatar II 77
    Ar-Gimilzor 75
    Aldor the Old 75
    Tar-Ardamin 74
    Arvegil 73
    Araphant 73
    Aravir 72
    Gerontius 72
    Ar-Zimrathon 71
    Arahael 71
    Arveleg II 70
    Aranuir 70
    Ar-Sakalthor 69
    Arahad I 68
    Narmacil I 68
    Aravorn 66
    Valacar 66
    Aragost 65
    Arahad II 65
    Arassuil 65
    Eomer 65
    Ar-Pharazon 64
    Arathorn I 64
    Argonui 64
    Ar-Adunakhor 63
    Romendacil II 62 (after 64 years as regent)
    Belecthor II 61

    Gondor's Eldacar reigned only 58 years
    de jure and 48 de facto.Gondor's Tarondor
    reigned 162 years.


    Lifespans between 90 years and the 130 of the Old Took,
    Argeleb I of Arnor,and the Steward Belegorn:

    Hallas 125 years
    Earnur 122
    Barahir 122
    Telemnar 120
    Mardil 120
    Hurin I 120
    Belecthor II 120
    Faramir 120
    Pelendur 119
    Cirion 118
    Eradan 117
    Egalmoth 117
    Turin I 113
    Hurin II 113
    Herion 111
    Beregond 111
    Angelimir 111
    Arvedui 110
    Arador 110
    Belecthor I 110
    Orodreth 109
    Beren 108
    Dior 107
    Rorimac Brandybuck 106
    Aglahad 105
    Fortinbras I 103
    Gorbadoc Brandybuck 103
    Denethor I 102
    Isengrim II 102
    Fortinbras II 102
    Gormadoc Brandybuck 102
    Madoc Brandybuck 102
    Aldor the Old 101
    Isumbras IV 101
    Paladin II 101
    Elphir 101
    Arveleg I 100
    Aragorn I 100
    Thorondir 100
    Ferumbras II 100
    Imrahil 100
    Turin II 99
    Ferumbras III 99
    Alphros 99
    Ecthelion I 98
    Turgon 98
    Ecthelion II 98
    Isengrim III 98
    Isumbras III 93
    Marmadoc Brandybuck 93
    Eomer 93
    Saradoc Brandybuck 92


    -=-=-
    The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
    at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)