XPost: alt.english.usage, alt.usage.english, soc.history
XPost: soc.culture.russian

On Wed, 22 Dec 2021 11:19:30 +0300, Anton Shepelev
<anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> wrote:

Steve Hayes:

Didn't the promyshlenniki expand the border?

Sometimes, but not necessarily. They were not conquerors,
nor even American pioneers.

Ah, I've already included Baba Yaga. Mainly to save the
characters a bit of time and effort to cross a mountain
range on the border -- have them carried overnight in a
house on chicken legs.

But I've heard that the Strognaovs built forts.

Well, Baba Yaga has a much faster means of transporta-
tion -- a large flying mortar, which she uses to abduct peo-
ple:

https://mysonnik.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/post_5cbdd3936b3ae.jpg

This is the right place to confess that I never liked
Tolkien's use of avitation (Eagles) to save his heroes in
apparently lost situations. Orks and goblins never have an-
ti-air weapons, where the Eagles themselves said they feared
the bows of men...

As some have pointed out, if the eagles could get Sam and Frodo out of
Mount Doom, why couldn't they have taken the ring there in the first
place and saved a lot of trouble and heartache?

But I suspect that Tolkien had in min the metaphor of Exodus 19:4.

I dislike this phenomenon in two cases: when it follows
the trend of abusing Russian characters as antagonists
and villains, and when it pretends some historical basis
while cruelly misinforming the audience, as in our re-
cent movie "The Admiral" about admiral Kolchak.

I'll bear that in mind.

I think that good historical fiction interpolates its plot
between the fixed points of historical fact.

Fair enough, and that is why I'm asking about the use of language in
the 17th century, because I thought that Russians might be more likely
to use "promyshlennik" than "biznesmen", and the English might be more
likely to use "projector" than "businessman".

But Baba Yaga, while fictional, is probably not historical, so it goes
a bit beyond historical fiction.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

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XPost: alt.english.usage, alt.usage.english, soc.history
XPost: soc.culture.russian

On Thu, 23 Dec 2021 08:56:17 +0200, Steve Hayes
<hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:

On Wed, 22 Dec 2021 11:19:30 +0300, Anton Shepelev ><anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> wrote:

Steve Hayes:

Didn't the promyshlenniki expand the border?

Sometimes, but not necessarily. They were not conquerors,
nor even American pioneers.

Ah, I've already included Baba Yaga. Mainly to save the
characters a bit of time and effort to cross a mountain
range on the border -- have them carried overnight in a
house on chicken legs.

But I've heard that the Strognaovs built forts.

Well, Baba Yaga has a much faster means of transporta-
tion -- a large flying mortar, which she uses to abduct peo-
ple:

https://mysonnik.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/post_5cbdd3936b3ae.jpg

This is the right place to confess that I never liked
Tolkien's use of avitation (Eagles) to save his heroes in
apparently lost situations. Orks and goblins never have an-
ti-air weapons, where the Eagles themselves said they feared
the bows of men...

As some have pointed out, if the eagles could get Sam and Frodo out of
Mount Doom, why couldn't they have taken the ring there in the first
place and saved a lot of trouble and heartache?

But I suspect that Tolkien had in min the metaphor of Exodus 19:4.

My guess has always been that, if he had, then the Lord of the Rings
would be named "Thorondor", and men would be permitted to exist solely
to tend the sheep his family ate.

I dislike this phenomenon in two cases: when it follows
the trend of abusing Russian characters as antagonists
and villains, and when it pretends some historical basis
while cruelly misinforming the audience, as in our re-
cent movie "The Admiral" about admiral Kolchak.

I'll bear that in mind.

I think that good historical fiction interpolates its plot
between the fixed points of historical fact.

Fair enough, and that is why I'm asking about the use of language in
the 17th century, because I thought that Russians might be more likely
to use "promyshlennik" than "biznesmen", and the English might be more
likely to use "projector" than "businessman".

But Baba Yaga, while fictional, is probably not historical, so it goes
a bit beyond historical fiction.

--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

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* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)