https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/songs-were-new
A Step Farther Out by Jerry Pournelle
Thrill to 1970s popular science straight from the pages of Galaxy Magazine!
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/songs-were-new
Currently, the accepted timing of the first humans in the
new world is being pushed back from 15,000 years ago,
to 25,000 or so, based on footprints found at White Sands.
On 2023-12-17, pete...@gmail.com <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
Currently, the accepted timing of the first humans in the
new world is being pushed back from 15,000 years ago,
to 25,000 or so, based on footprints found at White Sands.
Linguists have been pointing out for a long time that the earlier
dates are wholly implausible. The indigenous languages of the
Americas fall into a considerable number of distinct language
families that cannot be shown to be related to any other, so they
must have been diverging for a long time. By comparison, modern Indo-European languages are easily recognized as related after some
5,000 years of divergence; Afro-Asiatic is still an identifiable
grouping after 10,000+ years.
Linguists have been pointing out for a long time that the earlier
dates are wholly implausible. The indigenous languages of the
Americas fall into a considerable number of distinct language
families that cannot be shown to be related to any other,
By 'earlier' are you referring to 15 Kya, or 25 Kya?
It's entirely possible that there were multiple, linguistically diverse groups
which crossed from Eurasia at different times.
On 2023-12-18, pete...@gmail.com <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
Linguists have been pointing out for a long time that the earlier
dates are wholly implausible. The indigenous languages of the
Americas fall into a considerable number of distinct language
families that cannot be shown to be related to any other,
By 'earlier' are you referring to 15 Kya, or 25 Kya?
The earlier dates in that range, so 15 kya.
I would consider 15 Kya as later than 25 Kya, as the latter pre-dates
the former by 10 Kya.
Then again, from our perspective, 15 Kya is closer to us, so I suppose
it could be regarded as "earlier".
On Monday, December 18, 2023 at 7:30:10 AM UTC-5, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
On 2023-12-17, pete...@gmail.com <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
Currently, the accepted timing of the first humans in theLinguists have been pointing out for a long time that the earlier
new world is being pushed back from 15,000 years ago,
to 25,000 or so, based on footprints found at White Sands.
dates are wholly implausible. The indigenous languages of the
Americas fall into a considerable number of distinct language
families that cannot be shown to be related to any other, so they
must have been diverging for a long time. By comparison, modern
Indo-European languages are easily recognized as related after some
5,000 years of divergence; Afro-Asiatic is still an identifiable
grouping after 10,000+ years.
By 'earlier' are you referring to 15 Kya, or 25 Kya?
It's entirely possible that there were multiple, linguistically diverse groups
which crossed from Eurasia at different times.
Pt
On 12/18/23 13:27, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, December 18, 2023 at 7:30:10 AM UTC-5, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
On 2023-12-17, pete...@gmail.com <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
Currently, the accepted timing of the first humans in theLinguists have been pointing out for a long time that the earlier
new world is being pushed back from 15,000 years ago,
to 25,000 or so, based on footprints found at White Sands.
dates are wholly implausible. The indigenous languages of the
Americas fall into a considerable number of distinct language
families that cannot be shown to be related to any other, so they
must have been diverging for a long time. By comparison, modern
Indo-European languages are easily recognized as related after some
5,000 years of divergence; Afro-Asiatic is still an identifiable
grouping after 10,000+ years.
By 'earlier' are you referring to 15 Kya, or 25 Kya?
It's entirely possible that there were multiple, linguistically diverse groups
which crossed from Eurasia at different times.
Pt
Ok, I have to ask. What does Kya stand for, other than a Bay Area AM
radio station?
On Sun, 17 Dec 2023 14:39:44 +0000, James Nicoll wrote:
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/songs-were-new
Speaking of ancient Americans 40,000 years ago, I've
seen a video on YouTube which _appears_ to be sound
and factual, claiming that DNA studies have uncovered
something called "Population Y" in South America.
This is a vindication of Thor Heyerdahl, if not James
Churchward (_nothing_ can vindicate James Churchward,
of course)... apparently, if the Polynesians could
get to Easter Island, the conclusion that maybe they
could also reach South America *wasn't* so crazy
after all!
A check showed, though, that this idea didn't start
with Augustus le Plongeon, he had South America being
influenced by *Atlantis*, not Polynesia (let alone
Lemuria). So the line from Queen Moo to Mu must be
more complicated than I thought...
Per Wikipedia, most of Thor Heyerdahl's ideas=20
are outside modern orthodoxy, except I suppose
that you can sail quite a long way on "primitive" boats.
Other resources are specifically anxious about his
particular attention on the possible movements of
white people on these routes.
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
Per Wikipedia, most of Thor Heyerdahl's ideas=20
are outside modern orthodoxy, except I suppose
that you can sail quite a long way on "primitive" boats.
Other resources are specifically anxious about his
particular attention on the possible movements of
white people on these routes.
On the other hand, Thor Heyerdal proved that polynesians could have
visited the west coast of America!
I'm going to cite evidence that you can go up the Niagra Falls in a barrel as a caution against quickly drawing conclusions.
On 12/18/23 13:27, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, December 18, 2023 at 7:30:10 AM UTC-5, ChristianWeisgerber wrote:
On 2023-12-17, pete...@gmail.com <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
Currently, the accepted timing of the first humans in theLinguists have been pointing out for a long time that the earlier
new world is being pushed back from 15,000 years ago,
to 25,000 or so, based on footprints found at White Sands.
dates are wholly implausible. The indigenous languages of the
Americas fall into a considerable number of distinct language
families that cannot be shown to be related to any other, so they
must have been diverging for a long time. By comparison, modern
Indo-European languages are easily recognized as related after some
5,000 years of divergence; Afro-Asiatic is still an identifiable
grouping after 10,000+ years.
By 'earlier' are you referring to 15 Kya, or 25 Kya?
It's entirely possible that there were multiple, linguistically diverse groups
which crossed from Eurasia at different times.
Pt
Ok, I have to ask. What does Kya stand for, other than a Bay Area AM
radio station?
On Friday 22 December 2023 at 02:00:03 UTC, Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:
On 21 Dec 2023 at 21:29:28 GMT, "Dave" <bcf...@cruzio.com> wrote:
On 12/18/23 13:27, pete...@gmail.com wrote:"Kilo years ago", so it's 15 or 25 thousand years back. Anthropologist
On Monday, December 18, 2023 at 7:30:10?AM UTC-5, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
On 2023-12-17, pete...@gmail.com <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
Currently, the accepted timing of the first humans in theLinguists have been pointing out for a long time that the earlier
new world is being pushed back from 15,000 years ago,
to 25,000 or so, based on footprints found at White Sands.
dates are wholly implausible. The indigenous languages of the
Americas fall into a considerable number of distinct language
families that cannot be shown to be related to any other, so they
must have been diverging for a long time. By comparison, modern
Indo-European languages are easily recognized as related after some
5,000 years of divergence; Afro-Asiatic is still an identifiable
grouping after 10,000+ years.
By 'earlier' are you referring to 15 Kya, or 25 Kya?
It's entirely possible that there were multiple, linguistically diverse groups
which crossed from Eurasia at different times.
Pt
Ok, I have to ask. What does Kya stand for, other than a Bay Area AM
radio station?
shorthand I guess; not much else scales to thousands of years on a
regular basis.
I wonder if this is related to a fixed date?
Radiocarbon "ybp" dates are related to 1950,
apparently because that's around when the
technique became useable, as /well/ as being
a time when atomic bomb tests made it
/less/ useable.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Before_Present>
On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 11:21:34 PM UTC-5, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
[Hal Heydt]
Except for one little problem... Heyerdahl had people going to
other direction. That is, *from* South America *to* Polynesia.
There's little evidence of Polynesia being populated from South
America, and lots for it being populated from Asia.
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