In 2023 instead of 2015, I'm wondering if James's
thought that "in a crisis, people will for the most part
attempt to contribute to mitigating the crisis"
contains an overlooked spelling mistake.
On 9/8/2023 4:12 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
In 2023 instead of 2015, I'm wondering if James's
thought that "in a crisis, people will for the most part
attempt to contribute to mitigating the crisis"
contains an overlooked spelling mistake.
OK, I'll bite. What is the spelling mistake in
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/some-races-are-disciplined-is-fact-tekla-said-japanese-are-more-disciplined-than-italians
?
In 2023 instead of 2015, I'm wondering if James's
thought that "in a crisis, people will for the most part
attempt to contribute to mitigating the crisis"
contains an overlooked spelling mistake.
On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:12:27?PM UTC+1, Robert Carnegie wrote:reference, to 1976 - https://freakonomics.com/2009/08/quotes-uncovered-who-said-no-crisis-should-go-to-waste/
In 2023 instead of 2015, I'm wondering if James's
thought that "in a crisis, people will for the most part
attempt to contribute to mitigating the crisis"
contains an overlooked spelling mistake.
The modern use of "Never let a serious crisis go to waste" apparently dates to Rahm Emanuel in 2008 (https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Rahm_Emanuel) but a search finds claims of similar expressions used earlier - of which only one yields an explicit
Regardless, self-serving reactions to a crisis predate Seveneves (I struggled through that, but was not impressed. I can recommend Anathem).
Maybe it was aliens. Maybe it was a passing primordial black hole. Maybe
it was an author who couldn’t be bothered to come up with a plausible scenario
The modern use of "Never let a serious crisis go to waste" apparently dates to Rahm Emanuel in 2008 (https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Rahm_Emanuel)https://freakonomics.com/2009/08/quotes-uncovered-who-said-no-crisis-should-go-to-waste/
but a search finds claims of similar expressions used earlier - of which only one yields an explicit reference, to 1976 -
Regardless, self-serving reactions to a crisis predate Seveneves (I struggled through that, but was not impressed. I can recommend Anathem).
It is precisely now and only now, when in the starving regions people
are eating human flesh, and hundreds if not thousands of corpses
are littering the roads, that we can (and therefore must) carry out
the confiscation of church valuables with the most savage and
merciless energy, not stopping [short of] crushing any resistance. It
is precisely now and only now that the enormous majority of the
peasant mass will be for us or at any rate will not be in a condition
to support in any decisive way that handful of Black Hundred clergy
and reactionary urban petty bourgeoisie who can and want to
attempt a policy of violent resistance to the Soviet decree.
On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:34:48 AM UTC-4, Andrew McDowell wrote: [snip]
The modern use of "Never let a serious crisis go to waste" apparently dates >> to Rahm Emanuel in 2008 (https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Rahm_Emanuel)https://freakonomics.com/2009/08/quotes-uncovered-who-said-no-crisis-should-go-to-waste/
but a search finds claims of similar expressions used earlier - of which only
one yields an explicit reference, to 1976 -
Regardless, self-serving reactions to a crisis predate Seveneves (I struggled
through that, but was not impressed. I can recommend Anathem).
To quote Lenin's 2022-03-19 letter to the Soviet Politburo:
It is precisely now and only now, when in the starving regions people
are eating human flesh, and hundreds if not thousands of corpses
are littering the roads, that we can (and therefore must) carry out
the confiscation of church valuables with the most savage and
merciless energy, not stopping [short of] crushing any resistance. It
is precisely now and only now that the enormous majority of the
peasant mass will be for us or at any rate will not be in a condition
to support in any decisive way that handful of Black Hundred clergy
and reactionary urban petty bourgeoisie who can and want to
attempt a policy of violent resistance to the Soviet decree.
Russian original at https://leninism.su/works/99-v-i-lenin-neizvestnye-dokumenty-1891-1922/3671-pismo-molotovu-dlya-chlenov-politbyuro-czk-rkpb.html
English translation in _The Unknown Lenin: From the Secret Archive_,
Yale University Press, 1996, p. 152, Document 94.
On 9/13/2023 7:34 AM, Ahasuerus wrote:
On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:34:48 AM UTC-4, Andrew McDowell wrote:What did Putin have to say about Lenin trying to run the Russian Federation?
[snip]
The modern use of "Never let a serious crisis go to waste" apparently dates >>> to Rahm Emanuel in 2008 (https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Rahm_Emanuel)https://freakonomics.com/2009/08/quotes-uncovered-who-said-no-crisis-should-go-to-waste/
but a search finds claims of similar expressions used earlier - of which only
one yields an explicit reference, to 1976 -
Regardless, self-serving reactions to a crisis predate Seveneves (I struggled
through that, but was not impressed. I can recommend Anathem).
To quote Lenin's 2022-03-19 letter to the Soviet Politburo:
Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
On 9/13/2023 7:34 AM, Ahasuerus wrote:
On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:34:48 AM UTC-4, Andrew McDowell wrote:What did Putin have to say about Lenin trying to run the Russian Federation?
[snip]
The modern use of "Never let a serious crisis go to waste" apparently dateshttps://freakonomics.com/2009/08/quotes-uncovered-who-said-no-crisis-should-go-to-waste/
to Rahm Emanuel in 2008 (https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Rahm_Emanuel)
but a search finds claims of similar expressions used earlier - of which only
one yields an explicit reference, to 1976 -
Regardless, self-serving reactions to a crisis predate Seveneves (I struggled
through that, but was not impressed. I can recommend Anathem).
To quote Lenin's 2022-03-19 letter to the Soviet Politburo:
Putin really hates Lenin and blames him for a lot of things. He is very peeved that Lenin did not integrate all the SSRs into one huge centrally managed government but allowed them to retain some degree of autonomy. He believes Lenin was weak and is much more a fan of Stalin and some of the stronger czars. I'm kind of curious his feelings about the NEP but I could never find that he said anything on the subject.
--scott
On 9/13/2023 4:00 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
On 9/13/2023 7:34 AM, Ahasuerus wrote:
On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:34:48 AM UTC-4, Andrew McDowell wrote:What did Putin have to say about Lenin trying to run the Russian Federation?
[snip]
The modern use of "Never let a serious crisis go to waste" apparently dateshttps://freakonomics.com/2009/08/quotes-uncovered-who-said-no-crisis-should-go-to-waste/
to Rahm Emanuel in 2008 (https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Rahm_Emanuel) >>>> but a search finds claims of similar expressions used earlier - of which only
one yields an explicit reference, to 1976 -
Regardless, self-serving reactions to a crisis predate Seveneves (I struggled
through that, but was not impressed. I can recommend Anathem).
To quote Lenin's 2022-03-19 letter to the Soviet Politburo:
Putin really hates Lenin and blames him for a lot of things. He is very peeved that Lenin did not integrate all the SSRs into one huge centrally managed government but allowed them to retain some degree of autonomy. He believes Lenin was weak and is much more a fan of Stalin and some of the stronger czars. I'm kind of curious his feelings about the NEP but I could never find that he said anything on the subject.
--scott
Psst. Look at the "date" of Lenin's letter in Ahasuerus' post. ;)
To quote Lenin's 2022-03-19 letter to the Soviet Politburo:
This book is very controversial as to whether or not it is hard science.
I find that it is very much hard science. Here is an opposing view by
James Nicoll, a noted science fiction and fantasy reviewer:
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/some-races-are-disciplined-is-fact-tekla-said-japanese-are-more-disciplined-than-italians
On 9/13/2023 7:34 AM, Ahasuerus wrote:
On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:34:48 AM UTC-4, Andrew McDowell wrote:
[snip]
The modern use of "Never let a serious crisis go to waste" apparently dateshttps://freakonomics.com/2009/08/quotes-uncovered-who-said-no-crisis-should-go-to-waste/
to Rahm Emanuel in 2008 (https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Rahm_Emanuel)
but a search finds claims of similar expressions used earlier - of which only
one yields an explicit reference, to 1976 -
Regardless, self-serving reactions to a crisis predate Seveneves (I struggled
through that, but was not impressed. I can recommend Anathem).
To quote Lenin's 2022-03-19 letter to the Soviet Politburo:
What did Putin have to say about Lenin trying to run the Russian
Federation?
;)
On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 11:19:18 AM UTC-4, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
On 9/13/2023 7:34 AM, Ahasuerus wrote:
On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:34:48 AM UTC-4, Andrew McDowell wrote:What did Putin have to say about Lenin trying to run the Russian
[snip]
The modern use of "Never let a serious crisis go to waste" apparently dateshttps://freakonomics.com/2009/08/quotes-uncovered-who-said-no-crisis-should-go-to-waste/
to Rahm Emanuel in 2008 (https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Rahm_Emanuel)
but a search finds claims of similar expressions used earlier - of which only
one yields an explicit reference, to 1976 -
Regardless, self-serving reactions to a crisis predate Seveneves (I struggled
through that, but was not impressed. I can recommend Anathem).
To quote Lenin's 2022-03-19 letter to the Soviet Politburo:
Federation?
;)
[snip]
There was a reason why the Soviets quoted Mayakovsky --
"Even now Lenin is more alive than the living" -- so often!
On 9/15/2023 8:22 AM, Ahasuerus wrote:
On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 11:19:18 AM UTC-4, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
On 9/13/2023 7:34 AM, Ahasuerus wrote:
On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:34:48 AM UTC-4, Andrew McDowell wrote:What did Putin have to say about Lenin trying to run the Russian
[snip]
The modern use of "Never let a serious crisis go to waste" apparently dateshttps://freakonomics.com/2009/08/quotes-uncovered-who-said-no-crisis-should-go-to-waste/
to Rahm Emanuel in 2008 (https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Rahm_Emanuel) >>>> but a search finds claims of similar expressions used earlier - of which only
one yields an explicit reference, to 1976 -
Regardless, self-serving reactions to a crisis predate Seveneves (I struggled
through that, but was not impressed. I can recommend Anathem).
To quote Lenin's 2022-03-19 letter to the Soviet Politburo:
Federation?
;)
[snip]
There was a reason why the Soviets quoted Mayakovsky --Nice comeback. *applauds* :)
"Even now Lenin is more alive than the living" -- so often!
That is, Neil Stephenson could have gotten the accident that destroyed the = >Moon
as badly wrong as James Nicoll said in his review, but the book could still=
be
"hard science" in so far as the spaceships used to create the colonies with= >in
the Solar System in which the remnants of humanity survive are concerned.
"Seveneves" by Neal Stephenson
https://www.amazon.com/Seveneves-Neal-Stephenson/dp/0062334514/
If you like to buy your science fiction by the pound, have I got a deal
for you. 1.3 lbs, 880 pages in trade paperback for $14.39 on Amazon. I
am not sure that you can beat that deal anywhere else. In my opinion,
the author should have published this book as a trilogy since he very carefully split the book into three parts.
Part three starts 5,000 years later. There are three billion people
living in various habitats, mostly in the Moon's orbit around the Earth.
This book is very controversial as to whether or not it is hard science.
I find that it is very much hard science.
Here is an opposing view by
James Nicoll, a noted science fiction and fantasy reviewer:
My rating: 5 out of 5 stars
Amazon rating: 4.3 out of 5 stars (29,637 reviews)
Stephenson's projection of the human race in 5,000 years is so addled
with inconsistency, so replete with essentialisms and stereotyping, that
it is just nonsensical. 5,000 years is 1,000 years longer than the
period between Ea-Nasir's complaints and today. In Stephenson's
ideation, human culture today is precisely identical in all ways to the earliest Akkadian cultures, we maintain respect and knowledge of the
daily lives of the Akkadians, our religions are the same.
None of that, of course, is remotely true. Society, and the people
making it up, has changed beyond recognition.
In Seveneves, however, people name their space-habitats after the
equivalent of Assur, Atlep and Qatna. Its just *bullshytte*, to use one
of his own neologisms.
In Stephenson's
ideation, human culture today is precisely identical in all ways to the earliest Akkadian cultures, we maintain respect and knowledge of the
daily lives of the Akkadians, our religions are the same.
(snip)
In Seveneves, however, people name their space-habitats after the
equivalent of Assur, Atlep and Qatna.
Among the things dgold wrote:under archeological layers of other peoples' opinions, protecting the people of that time from the weight of history. (Other protections are being evolved even today: I can see (well, as the Solarians would say, "view,") people deciding the course of
[re: Seveneves]
Stephenson's projection of the human race in 5,000 years is so addled
with inconsistency, so replete with essentialisms and stereotyping, that
it is just nonsensical. 5,000 years is 1,000 years longer than the
period between Ea-Nasir's complaints and today. In Stephenson's
ideation, human culture today is precisely identical in all ways to the
earliest Akkadian cultures, we maintain respect and knowledge of the
daily lives of the Akkadians, our religions are the same.
None of that, of course, is remotely true. Society, and the people
making it up, has changed beyond recognition.
In Seveneves, however, people name their space-habitats after the
equivalent of Assur, Atlep and Qatna. Its just *bullshytte*, to use one
of his own neologisms.
Well, that's one of the changes in our society over the last 5,000 years, the record-keeping.
For centuries we couldn't read cuneiform, leaving us to archeology for an idea of life 4,000 years ago. 4,000 years from now, people will be able to know your opinion on these matters. Well, theoretically. Our opinions, though preserved, are buried
On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 07:06:11 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohnunder archeological layers of other peoples' opinions, protecting the people of that time from the weight of history. (Other protections are being evolved even today: I can see (well, as the Solarians would say, "view,") people deciding the course of
<jack....@gmail.com> wrote:
Among the things dgold wrote:
[re: Seveneves]
Stephenson's projection of the human race in 5,000 years is so addled
with inconsistency, so replete with essentialisms and stereotyping, that >> it is just nonsensical. 5,000 years is 1,000 years longer than the
period between Ea-Nasir's complaints and today. In Stephenson's
ideation, human culture today is precisely identical in all ways to the >> earliest Akkadian cultures, we maintain respect and knowledge of the
daily lives of the Akkadians, our religions are the same.
None of that, of course, is remotely true. Society, and the people
making it up, has changed beyond recognition.
In Seveneves, however, people name their space-habitats after the
equivalent of Assur, Atlep and Qatna. Its just *bullshytte*, to use one >> of his own neologisms.
Well, that's one of the changes in our society over the last 5,000 years, the record-keeping.
For centuries we couldn't read cuneiform, leaving us to archeology for an idea of life 4,000 years ago. 4,000 years from now, people will be able to know your opinion on these matters. Well, theoretically. Our opinions, though preserved, are buried
You actually think that ephemera like Usenet/Board ramblings will be
read 4000 years from now? Or even available to read?
On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 4:56:39 AM UTC-6, dgold wrote:
(snip)
In Seveneves, however, people name their space-habitats after the
equivalent of Assur, Atlep and Qatna.
(snip)
Of course such an outcome is wildly improbable in real life, but it's one way of making an effort to address the issue of cultural change over a span of time, and I would give him points for that.
On 2023-09-22, Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 4:56:39 AM UTC-6, dgold wrote:
(snip)
In Seveneves, however, people name their space-habitats after the
equivalent of Assur, Atlep and Qatna.
(snip)
Of course such an outcome is wildly improbable in real life, but it's one way
of making an effort to address the issue of cultural change over a span of time, and I would give him points for that.
I'll accept that its a way to address it. The disjoint is that you think
its an acceptable framing, i think its bollocks.
We're both, of course, correct, but I don't see where "science" comes in
to either proposal.
On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 11:05:22 AM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:under archeological layers of other peoples' opinions, protecting the people of that time from the weight of history. (Other protections are being evolved even today: I can see (well, as the Solarians would say, "view,") people deciding the course of
On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 07:06:11 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
<jack....@gmail.com> wrote:
Among the things dgold wrote:
[re: Seveneves]
Stephenson's projection of the human race in 5,000 years is so addled >> with inconsistency, so replete with essentialisms and stereotyping, that
it is just nonsensical. 5,000 years is 1,000 years longer than the
period between Ea-Nasir's complaints and today. In Stephenson's
ideation, human culture today is precisely identical in all ways to the >> earliest Akkadian cultures, we maintain respect and knowledge of the
daily lives of the Akkadians, our religions are the same.
None of that, of course, is remotely true. Society, and the people
making it up, has changed beyond recognition.
In Seveneves, however, people name their space-habitats after the
equivalent of Assur, Atlep and Qatna. Its just *bullshytte*, to use one >> of his own neologisms.
Well, that's one of the changes in our society over the last 5,000 years, the record-keeping.
For centuries we couldn't read cuneiform, leaving us to archeology for an idea of life 4,000 years ago. 4,000 years from now, people will be able to know your opinion on these matters. Well, theoretically. Our opinions, though preserved, are buried
You actually think that ephemera like Usenet/Board ramblings will beAvailable? Yes. Read? Well... maybe.
read 4000 years from now? Or even available to read?
Do we read diaries and personal mail of even ordinary folk from 100, 200, 1000, 2000 years ago? Yes, but that's because there's not a lot of it, and the less of it there is, the more important even the unimportant ones become.
Steven Moffat's old Usenet posts were dredged up when he became producer of Doctor Who.
You and I, I suspect at best the people of the future will use our output as input for some Chat GPT-bot as research into the 21st Cent, and, most importantly, what we might have said about them.
On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 2:33:01 PM UTC-4, dgold wrote:
On 2023-09-22, Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 4:56:39 AM UTC-6, dgold wrote:I'll accept that its a way to address it. The disjoint is that you think
(snip)
In Seveneves, however, people name their space-habitats after the
equivalent of Assur, Atlep and Qatna.
(snip)
Of course such an outcome is wildly improbable in real life, but it's one way
of making an effort to address the issue of cultural change over a span of >>> time, and I would give him points for that.
its an acceptable framing, i think its bollocks.
We're both, of course, correct, but I don't see where "science" comes in
to either proposal.
I was really disappointed by Seveneves.
Spoiler space
1. The Moon breakup is never explained or justified. This is just lazy writing.
2. The 3rd section, 5000 years later, piles on absurdities. The Diggers managed to
keep an underground population going for 5000 years, rewinding tungsten filaments for
the lightbulbs powering their oxygen gardens? Spare me. Finally when they come out,
they are wielding 5000 year old tools with wooden handles, and 'Sears Roebuck' labels?!
Similarly, the group that decided to hide in submarines have evolved into an aquatic,
water breathing race?
Pt
In article <uelh9s$ki7h$1@dont-email.me>,
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/22/2023 3:14 PM, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
[spoilers elided]
You and James man, you and James.
[Hal Heydt]
It's a good thing there are differing tastes or think what a
shortage of haggis there'd be.
On 2023-09-22, Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
Of course such an outcome is wildly improbable in real life, but it's one way
of making an effort to address the issue of cultural change over a span of time, and I would give him points for that.
I'll accept that its a way to address it. The disjoint is that you think
its an acceptable framing, i think its bollocks.
On 9/22/2023 3:14 PM, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
[spoilers elided]
You and James man, you and James.
On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 11:05:22?AM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:under archeological layers of other peoples' opinions, protecting the people of that time from the weight of history. (Other protections are being evolved even today: I can see (well, as the Solarians would say, "view,") people deciding the course of
On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 07:06:11 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
<jack....@gmail.com> wrote:
Among the things dgold wrote:
[re: Seveneves]
Stephenson's projection of the human race in 5,000 years is so addled
with inconsistency, so replete with essentialisms and stereotyping, that >> >> it is just nonsensical. 5,000 years is 1,000 years longer than the
period between Ea-Nasir's complaints and today. In Stephenson's
ideation, human culture today is precisely identical in all ways to the >> >> earliest Akkadian cultures, we maintain respect and knowledge of the
daily lives of the Akkadians, our religions are the same.
None of that, of course, is remotely true. Society, and the people
making it up, has changed beyond recognition.
In Seveneves, however, people name their space-habitats after the
equivalent of Assur, Atlep and Qatna. Its just *bullshytte*, to use one >> >> of his own neologisms.
Well, that's one of the changes in our society over the last 5,000 years, the record-keeping.
For centuries we couldn't read cuneiform, leaving us to archeology for an idea of life 4,000 years ago. 4,000 years from now, people will be able to know your opinion on these matters. Well, theoretically. Our opinions, though preserved, are buried
You actually think that ephemera like Usenet/Board ramblings will be
read 4000 years from now? Or even available to read?
Available? Yes. Read? Well... maybe.
Do we read diaries and personal mail of even ordinary folk from 100, 200, 1000, 2000 years ago? Yes, but that's because there's not a lot of it, and the less of it there is, the more important even the unimportant ones become.
Steven Moffat's old Usenet posts were dredged up when he became producer of Doctor Who.
You and I, I suspect at best the people of the future will use our output as input for some Chat GPT-bot as research into the 21st Cent, and, most importantly, what we might have said about them.
On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 08:52:14 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohnunder archeological layers of other peoples' opinions, protecting the people of that time from the weight of history. (Other protections are being evolved even today: I can see (well, as the Solarians would say, "view,") people deciding the course of
<jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 11:05:22?AM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 07:06:11 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
<jack....@gmail.com> wrote:
Among the things dgold wrote:
[re: Seveneves]
Stephenson's projection of the human race in 5,000 years is so addled >>>>> with inconsistency, so replete with essentialisms and stereotyping, that >>>>> it is just nonsensical. 5,000 years is 1,000 years longer than the
period between Ea-Nasir's complaints and today. In Stephenson's
ideation, human culture today is precisely identical in all ways to the >>>>> earliest Akkadian cultures, we maintain respect and knowledge of the >>>>> daily lives of the Akkadians, our religions are the same.
None of that, of course, is remotely true. Society, and the people
making it up, has changed beyond recognition.
In Seveneves, however, people name their space-habitats after the
equivalent of Assur, Atlep and Qatna. Its just *bullshytte*, to use one >>>>> of his own neologisms.
Well, that's one of the changes in our society over the last 5,000 years, the record-keeping.
For centuries we couldn't read cuneiform, leaving us to archeology for an idea of life 4,000 years ago. 4,000 years from now, people will be able to know your opinion on these matters. Well, theoretically. Our opinions, though preserved, are buried
You actually think that ephemera like Usenet/Board ramblings will be
read 4000 years from now? Or even available to read?
Available? Yes. Read? Well... maybe.
Do we read diaries and personal mail of even ordinary folk from 100, 200, 1000, 2000 years ago? Yes, but that's because there's not a lot of it, and the less of it there is, the more important even the unimportant ones become.
Steven Moffat's old Usenet posts were dredged up when he became producer of Doctor Who.
You and I, I suspect at best the people of the future will use our output as input for some Chat GPT-bot as research into the 21st Cent, and, most importantly, what we might have said about them.
I wasn't aware my posts were being carved by the finger of God on the
living rocks of Mt Sinai.
'Cause in 4000 years, that's likely to be the /only/ way they
survived.
The ancient writings that survived 4000 years, after all, were mostly
if not entirely inscribed on ... rock. Or something equally durable.
And in a very dry climate. And probably spent a lot of time buried underground.
Not as evanescent bits on a hard drive in the cloud. The changes from
cosmic rays /alone/ would render them unreadable.
On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 08:52:14 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohnunder archeological layers of other peoples' opinions, protecting the people of that time from the weight of history. (Other protections are being evolved even today: I can see (well, as the Solarians would say, "view,") people deciding the course of
<jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 11:05:22?AM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 07:06:11 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
<jack....@gmail.com> wrote:
Among the things dgold wrote:
[re: Seveneves]
Stephenson's projection of the human race in 5,000 years is so addled >>>>> with inconsistency, so replete with essentialisms and stereotyping, that >>>>> it is just nonsensical. 5,000 years is 1,000 years longer than the
period between Ea-Nasir's complaints and today. In Stephenson's
ideation, human culture today is precisely identical in all ways to the >>>>> earliest Akkadian cultures, we maintain respect and knowledge of the >>>>> daily lives of the Akkadians, our religions are the same.
None of that, of course, is remotely true. Society, and the people
making it up, has changed beyond recognition.
In Seveneves, however, people name their space-habitats after the
equivalent of Assur, Atlep and Qatna. Its just *bullshytte*, to use one >>>>> of his own neologisms.
Well, that's one of the changes in our society over the last 5,000 years, the record-keeping.
For centuries we couldn't read cuneiform, leaving us to archeology for an idea of life 4,000 years ago. 4,000 years from now, people will be able to know your opinion on these matters. Well, theoretically. Our opinions, though preserved, are buried
You actually think that ephemera like Usenet/Board ramblings will be
read 4000 years from now? Or even available to read?
Available? Yes. Read? Well... maybe.
Do we read diaries and personal mail of even ordinary folk from 100, 200, 1000, 2000 years ago? Yes, but that's because there's not a lot of it, and the less of it there is, the more important even the unimportant ones become.
Steven Moffat's old Usenet posts were dredged up when he became producer of Doctor Who.
You and I, I suspect at best the people of the future will use our output as input for some Chat GPT-bot as research into the 21st Cent, and, most importantly, what we might have said about them.
I wasn't aware my posts were being carved by the finger of God on the
living rocks of Mt Sinai.
'Cause in 4000 years, that's likely to be the /only/ way they
survived.
The ancient writings that survived 4000 years, after all, were mostly
if not entirely inscribed on ... rock. Or something equally durable.
And in a very dry climate. And probably spent a lot of time buried underground.
Not as evanescent bits on a hard drive in the cloud. The changes from
cosmic rays /alone/ would render them unreadable.
You actually think that ephemera like Usenet/Board ramblings will be
read 4000 years from now? Or even available to read?
On 9/23/2023 10:49 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 08:52:14 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
<jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 11:05:22?AM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote: >>>> On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 07:06:11 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
<jack....@gmail.com> wrote:
Among the things dgold wrote:
[re: Seveneves]
Stephenson's projection of the human race in 5,000 years is so addled >>>>>> with inconsistency, so replete with essentialisms and
stereotyping, that
it is just nonsensical. 5,000 years is 1,000 years longer than the >>>>>> period between Ea-Nasir's complaints and today. In Stephenson's
ideation, human culture today is precisely identical in all ways
to the
earliest Akkadian cultures, we maintain respect and knowledge of the >>>>>> daily lives of the Akkadians, our religions are the same.
None of that, of course, is remotely true. Society, and the people >>>>>> making it up, has changed beyond recognition.
In Seveneves, however, people name their space-habitats after the
equivalent of Assur, Atlep and Qatna. Its just *bullshytte*, to
use one
of his own neologisms.
Well, that's one of the changes in our society over the last 5,000
years, the record-keeping.
For centuries we couldn't read cuneiform, leaving us to archeology
for an idea of life 4,000 years ago. 4,000 years from now, people
will be able to know your opinion on these matters. Well,
theoretically. Our opinions, though preserved, are buried under
archeological layers of other peoples' opinions, protecting the
people of that time from the weight of history. (Other protections
are being evolved even today: I can see (well, as the Solarians
would say, "view,") people deciding the course of World War II,
from the leaders to the foxholes to the home front, but there are
some folks who can't watch a black & white film. Clarke mentioned
audiences who couldn't stomach watching scenes with smoking in
them, I found that hard to believe, but have recently had
conversations with such folk.)
You actually think that ephemera like Usenet/Board ramblings will be
read 4000 years from now? Or even available to read?
Available? Yes. Read? Well... maybe.
Do we read diaries and personal mail of even ordinary folk from 100,
200, 1000, 2000 years ago? Yes, but that's because there's not a lot
of it, and the less of it there is, the more important even the
unimportant ones become.
Steven Moffat's old Usenet posts were dredged up when he became
producer of Doctor Who.
You and I, I suspect at best the people of the future will use our
output as input for some Chat GPT-bot as research into the 21st Cent,
and, most importantly, what we might have said about them.
I wasn't aware my posts were being carved by the finger of God on the
living rocks of Mt Sinai.
'Cause in 4000 years, that's likely to be the /only/ way they
survived.
The ancient writings that survived 4000 years, after all, were mostly
if not entirely inscribed on ... rock. Or something equally durable.
And in a very dry climate. And probably spent a lot of time buried
underground.
Not as evanescent bits on a hard drive in the cloud. The changes from
cosmic rays /alone/ would render them unreadable.
If and when they get the holographic drives to working reliably and in
an economic fashion, they should be incredibly reliable for thousands of years, maybe millions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_data_storage
On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 08:52:14 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohnunder archeological layers of other peoples' opinions, protecting the people of that time from the weight of history. (Other protections are being evolved even today: I can see (well, as the Solarians would say, "view,") people deciding the course of
<jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 11:05:22?AM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 07:06:11 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
<jack....@gmail.com> wrote:
Among the things dgold wrote:
[re: Seveneves]
Stephenson's projection of the human race in 5,000 years is so addled >>>>> with inconsistency, so replete with essentialisms and stereotyping, that >>>>> it is just nonsensical. 5,000 years is 1,000 years longer than the
period between Ea-Nasir's complaints and today. In Stephenson's
ideation, human culture today is precisely identical in all ways to the >>>>> earliest Akkadian cultures, we maintain respect and knowledge of the >>>>> daily lives of the Akkadians, our religions are the same.
None of that, of course, is remotely true. Society, and the people
making it up, has changed beyond recognition.
In Seveneves, however, people name their space-habitats after the
equivalent of Assur, Atlep and Qatna. Its just *bullshytte*, to use one >>>>> of his own neologisms.
Well, that's one of the changes in our society over the last 5,000 years, the record-keeping.
For centuries we couldn't read cuneiform, leaving us to archeology for an idea of life 4,000 years ago. 4,000 years from now, people will be able to know your opinion on these matters. Well, theoretically. Our opinions, though preserved, are buried
You actually think that ephemera like Usenet/Board ramblings will be
read 4000 years from now? Or even available to read?
Available? Yes. Read? Well... maybe.
Do we read diaries and personal mail of even ordinary folk from 100, 200, 1000, 2000 years ago? Yes, but that's because there's not a lot of it, and the less of it there is, the more important even the unimportant ones become.
Steven Moffat's old Usenet posts were dredged up when he became producer of Doctor Who.
You and I, I suspect at best the people of the future will use our output as input for some Chat GPT-bot as research into the 21st Cent, and, most importantly, what we might have said about them.
I wasn't aware my posts were being carved by the finger of God on the
living rocks of Mt Sinai.
'Cause in 4000 years, that's likely to be the /only/ way they
survived.
The ancient writings that survived 4000 years, after all, were mostly
if not entirely inscribed on ... rock. Or something equally durable.
And in a very dry climate. And probably spent a lot of time buried underground.
Not as evanescent bits on a hard drive in the cloud. The changes from
cosmic rays /alone/ would render them unreadable.
If and when they get the holographic drives to working reliably and in
an economic fashion, they should be incredibly reliable for thousands of years, maybe millions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_data_storage
On 9/23/2023 8:49 AM, Paul S Person wrote:under archeological layers of other peoples' opinions, protecting the people of that time from the weight of history. (Other protections are being evolved even today: I can see (well, as the Solarians would say, "view,") people deciding the course of
On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 08:52:14 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
<jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 11:05:22?AM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote: >>>> On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 07:06:11 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
<jack....@gmail.com> wrote:
Among the things dgold wrote:
[re: Seveneves]
Stephenson's projection of the human race in 5,000 years is so addled >>>>>> with inconsistency, so replete with essentialisms and stereotyping, that >>>>>> it is just nonsensical. 5,000 years is 1,000 years longer than the >>>>>> period between Ea-Nasir's complaints and today. In Stephenson's
ideation, human culture today is precisely identical in all ways to the >>>>>> earliest Akkadian cultures, we maintain respect and knowledge of the >>>>>> daily lives of the Akkadians, our religions are the same.
None of that, of course, is remotely true. Society, and the people >>>>>> making it up, has changed beyond recognition.
In Seveneves, however, people name their space-habitats after the
equivalent of Assur, Atlep and Qatna. Its just *bullshytte*, to use one >>>>>> of his own neologisms.
Well, that's one of the changes in our society over the last 5,000 years, the record-keeping.
For centuries we couldn't read cuneiform, leaving us to archeology for an idea of life 4,000 years ago. 4,000 years from now, people will be able to know your opinion on these matters. Well, theoretically. Our opinions, though preserved, are buried
Ozymandias says 'Hello'.
You actually think that ephemera like Usenet/Board ramblings will be
read 4000 years from now? Or even available to read?
Available? Yes. Read? Well... maybe.
Do we read diaries and personal mail of even ordinary folk from 100, 200, 1000, 2000 years ago? Yes, but that's because there's not a lot of it, and the less of it there is, the more important even the unimportant ones become.
Steven Moffat's old Usenet posts were dredged up when he became producer of Doctor Who.
You and I, I suspect at best the people of the future will use our output as input for some Chat GPT-bot as research into the 21st Cent, and, most importantly, what we might have said about them.
I wasn't aware my posts were being carved by the finger of God on the
living rocks of Mt Sinai.
'Cause in 4000 years, that's likely to be the /only/ way they
survived.
The ancient writings that survived 4000 years, after all, were mostly
if not entirely inscribed on ... rock. Or something equally durable.
And in a very dry climate. And probably spent a lot of time buried
underground.
Not as evanescent bits on a hard drive in the cloud. The changes from
cosmic rays /alone/ would render them unreadable.
On 9/23/2023 10:49 AM, Paul S Person wrote:under archeological layers of other peoples' opinions, protecting the people of that time from the weight of history. (Other protections are being evolved even today: I can see (well, as the Solarians would say, "view,") people deciding the course of
On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 08:52:14 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
<jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 11:05:22?AM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote: >>>> On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 07:06:11 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
<jack....@gmail.com> wrote:
Among the things dgold wrote:
[re: Seveneves]
Stephenson's projection of the human race in 5,000 years is so addled >>>>>> with inconsistency, so replete with essentialisms and stereotyping, that >>>>>> it is just nonsensical. 5,000 years is 1,000 years longer than the >>>>>> period between Ea-Nasir's complaints and today. In Stephenson's
ideation, human culture today is precisely identical in all ways to the >>>>>> earliest Akkadian cultures, we maintain respect and knowledge of the >>>>>> daily lives of the Akkadians, our religions are the same.
None of that, of course, is remotely true. Society, and the people >>>>>> making it up, has changed beyond recognition.
In Seveneves, however, people name their space-habitats after the
equivalent of Assur, Atlep and Qatna. Its just *bullshytte*, to use one >>>>>> of his own neologisms.
Well, that's one of the changes in our society over the last 5,000 years, the record-keeping.
For centuries we couldn't read cuneiform, leaving us to archeology for an idea of life 4,000 years ago. 4,000 years from now, people will be able to know your opinion on these matters. Well, theoretically. Our opinions, though preserved, are buried
You actually think that ephemera like Usenet/Board ramblings will be
read 4000 years from now? Or even available to read?
Available? Yes. Read? Well... maybe.
Do we read diaries and personal mail of even ordinary folk from 100, 200, 1000, 2000 years ago? Yes, but that's because there's not a lot of it, and the less of it there is, the more important even the unimportant ones become.
Steven Moffat's old Usenet posts were dredged up when he became producer of Doctor Who.
You and I, I suspect at best the people of the future will use our output as input for some Chat GPT-bot as research into the 21st Cent, and, most importantly, what we might have said about them.
I wasn't aware my posts were being carved by the finger of God on the
living rocks of Mt Sinai.
'Cause in 4000 years, that's likely to be the /only/ way they
survived.
The ancient writings that survived 4000 years, after all, were mostly
if not entirely inscribed on ... rock. Or something equally durable.
And in a very dry climate. And probably spent a lot of time buried
underground.
Not as evanescent bits on a hard drive in the cloud. The changes from
cosmic rays /alone/ would render them unreadable.
If and when they get the holographic drives to working reliably and in
an economic fashion, they should be incredibly reliable for thousands of >years, maybe millions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_data_storage
On 9/23/2023 10:49 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 08:52:14 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
<jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 11:05:22?AM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote: >>>> On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 07:06:11 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
<jack....@gmail.com> wrote:
Among the things dgold wrote:
[re: Seveneves]
Stephenson's projection of the human race in 5,000 years is so addled >>>>>> with inconsistency, so replete with essentialisms and
stereotyping, that
it is just nonsensical. 5,000 years is 1,000 years longer than the >>>>>> period between Ea-Nasir's complaints and today. In Stephenson's
ideation, human culture today is precisely identical in all ways
to the
earliest Akkadian cultures, we maintain respect and knowledge of the >>>>>> daily lives of the Akkadians, our religions are the same.
None of that, of course, is remotely true. Society, and the people >>>>>> making it up, has changed beyond recognition.
In Seveneves, however, people name their space-habitats after the
equivalent of Assur, Atlep and Qatna. Its just *bullshytte*, to
use one
of his own neologisms.
Well, that's one of the changes in our society over the last 5,000
years, the record-keeping.
For centuries we couldn't read cuneiform, leaving us to archeology
for an idea of life 4,000 years ago. 4,000 years from now, people
will be able to know your opinion on these matters. Well,
theoretically. Our opinions, though preserved, are buried under
archeological layers of other peoples' opinions, protecting the
people of that time from the weight of history. (Other protections
are being evolved even today: I can see (well, as the Solarians
would say, "view,") people deciding the course of World War II,
from the leaders to the foxholes to the home front, but there are
some folks who can't watch a black & white film. Clarke mentioned
audiences who couldn't stomach watching scenes with smoking in
them, I found that hard to believe, but have recently had
conversations with such folk.)
You actually think that ephemera like Usenet/Board ramblings will be
read 4000 years from now? Or even available to read?
Available? Yes. Read? Well... maybe.
Do we read diaries and personal mail of even ordinary folk from 100,
200, 1000, 2000 years ago? Yes, but that's because there's not a lot
of it, and the less of it there is, the more important even the
unimportant ones become.
Steven Moffat's old Usenet posts were dredged up when he became
producer of Doctor Who.
You and I, I suspect at best the people of the future will use our
output as input for some Chat GPT-bot as research into the 21st Cent,
and, most importantly, what we might have said about them.
I wasn't aware my posts were being carved by the finger of God on the
living rocks of Mt Sinai.
'Cause in 4000 years, that's likely to be the /only/ way they
survived.
The ancient writings that survived 4000 years, after all, were mostly
if not entirely inscribed on ... rock. Or something equally durable.
And in a very dry climate. And probably spent a lot of time buried
underground.
Not as evanescent bits on a hard drive in the cloud. The changes from
cosmic rays /alone/ would render them unreadable.
David Weber has the Heirs of The Empire play a 55,000 year old video recording in his book, "Heirs of Empire".
https://www.amazon.com/Heirs-Empire-Dahak-David-Weber/dp/0671877070/
On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 08:52:14 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
<jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:
You and I, I suspect at best the people of the future will use our =output as input for some Chat GPT-bot as research into the 21st Cent, =
and, most importantly, what we might have said about them.
I wasn't aware my posts were being carved by the finger of God on the
living rocks of Mt Sinai.
'Cause in 4000 years, that's likely to be the /only/ way they
survived.
The ancient writings that survived 4000 years, after all, were mostly
if not entirely inscribed on ... rock. Or something equally durable.
And in a very dry climate. And probably spent a lot of time buried >underground.
Not as evanescent bits on a hard drive in the cloud. The changes from
cosmic rays /alone/ would render them unreadable.
On 9/23/2023 10:49 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 08:52:14 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
<jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 11:05:22?AM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote: >>> On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 07:06:11 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
<jack....@gmail.com> wrote:
Among the things dgold wrote:
[re: Seveneves]
Stephenson's projection of the human race in 5,000 years is so addled >>>>> with inconsistency, so replete with essentialisms and stereotyping, >>>>> that
it is just nonsensical. 5,000 years is 1,000 years longer than the >>>>> period between Ea-Nasir's complaints and today. In Stephenson's
ideation, human culture today is precisely identical in all ways to the >>>>> earliest Akkadian cultures, we maintain respect and knowledge of the >>>>> daily lives of the Akkadians, our religions are the same.
None of that, of course, is remotely true. Society, and the people >>>>> making it up, has changed beyond recognition.
In Seveneves, however, people name their space-habitats after the
equivalent of Assur, Atlep and Qatna. Its just *bullshytte*, to use one >>>>> of his own neologisms.
Well, that's one of the changes in our society over the last 5,000
years, the record-keeping.
For centuries we couldn't read cuneiform, leaving us to archeology for >>>> an idea of life 4,000 years ago. 4,000 years from now, people will be >>>> able to know your opinion on these matters. Well, theoretically. Our >>>> opinions, though preserved, are buried under archeological layers of >>>> other peoples' opinions, protecting the people of that time from the >>>> weight of history. (Other protections are being evolved even today: I >>>> can see (well, as the Solarians would say, "view,") people deciding the >>>> course of World War II, from the leaders to the foxholes to the home >>>> front, but there are some folks who can't watch a black & white film. >>>> Clarke mentioned audiences who couldn't stomach watching scenes with >>>> smoking in them, I found that hard to believe, but have recently had >>>> conversations with such folk.)
You actually think that ephemera like Usenet/Board ramblings will be
read 4000 years from now? Or even available to read?
Available? Yes. Read? Well... maybe.
Do we read diaries and personal mail of even ordinary folk from 100, 200, >> 1000, 2000 years ago? Yes, but that's because there's not a lot of it,
and the less of it there is, the more important even the unimportant ones >> become.
Steven Moffat's old Usenet posts were dredged up when he became producer >> of Doctor Who.
You and I, I suspect at best the people of the future will use our output >> as input for some Chat GPT-bot as research into the 21st Cent, and, most >> importantly, what we might have said about them.
I wasn't aware my posts were being carved by the finger of God on the living rocks of Mt Sinai.
'Cause in 4000 years, that's likely to be the /only/ way they
survived.
The ancient writings that survived 4000 years, after all, were mostly
if not entirely inscribed on ... rock. Or something equally durable.
And in a very dry climate. And probably spent a lot of time buried underground.
Not as evanescent bits on a hard drive in the cloud. The changes from cosmic rays /alone/ would render them unreadable.
David Weber has the Heirs of The Empire play a 55,000 year old video recording in his book, "Heirs of Empire".
https://www.amazon.com/Heirs-Empire-Dahak-David-Weber/dp/0671877070/
On Friday, 22 September 2023 at 16:52:17 UTC+1, Jack Bohn wrote:
On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 11:05:22 AM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
You actually think that ephemera like Usenet/Board ramblings will be read 4000 years from now? Or even available to read?
Available? Yes. Read? Well... maybe.
Do we read diaries and personal mail of even ordinary folk from 100, 200, 1000, 2000 years ago? Yes, but that's because there's not a lot of it, and the less of it there is, the more important even the unimportant ones become.
Steven Moffat's old Usenet posts were dredged up when he became producer of Doctor Who.
You and I, I suspect at best the people of the future will use our output as input for some Chat GPT-bot as research into the 21st Cent, and, most importantly, what we might have said about them.
I, for one, welcome our new chatty robot overlords.
v npghnyyl qb abg, rira vs, orpnhfr bs
ubj gurl pnzr gb or, gung'f jung v nz.
On 9/24/2023 11:34 AM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
On 9/23/2023 10:44 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 9/23/2023 10:49 AM, Paul S Person wrote:David Weber does not write hard sf.
On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 08:52:14 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
<jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 11:05:22?AM UTC-4, Paul S Person
wrote:
On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 07:06:11 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
<jack....@gmail.com> wrote:
Among the things dgold wrote:
[re: Seveneves]
Stephenson's projection of the human race in 5,000 years is so >>>>>>>> addled
with inconsistency, so replete with essentialisms and
stereotyping, that
it is just nonsensical. 5,000 years is 1,000 years longer than the >>>>>>>> period between Ea-Nasir's complaints and today. In Stephenson's >>>>>>>> ideation, human culture today is precisely identical in all ways >>>>>>>> to the
earliest Akkadian cultures, we maintain respect and knowledge of >>>>>>>> the
daily lives of the Akkadians, our religions are the same.
None of that, of course, is remotely true. Society, and the people >>>>>>>> making it up, has changed beyond recognition.
In Seveneves, however, people name their space-habitats after the >>>>>>>> equivalent of Assur, Atlep and Qatna. Its just *bullshytte*, to >>>>>>>> use one
of his own neologisms.
Well, that's one of the changes in our society over the last
5,000 years, the record-keeping.
For centuries we couldn't read cuneiform, leaving us to
archeology for an idea of life 4,000 years ago. 4,000 years from >>>>>>> now, people will be able to know your opinion on these matters.
Well, theoretically. Our opinions, though preserved, are buried
under archeological layers of other peoples' opinions, protecting >>>>>>> the people of that time from the weight of history. (Other
protections are being evolved even today: I can see (well, as the >>>>>>> Solarians would say, "view,") people deciding the course of World >>>>>>> War II, from the leaders to the foxholes to the home front, but
there are some folks who can't watch a black & white film. Clarke >>>>>>> mentioned audiences who couldn't stomach watching scenes with
smoking in them, I found that hard to believe, but have recently >>>>>>> had conversations with such folk.)
You actually think that ephemera like Usenet/Board ramblings will be >>>>>> read 4000 years from now? Or even available to read?
Available? Yes. Read? Well... maybe.
Do we read diaries and personal mail of even ordinary folk from
100, 200, 1000, 2000 years ago? Yes, but that's because there's
not a lot of it, and the less of it there is, the more important
even the unimportant ones become.
Steven Moffat's old Usenet posts were dredged up when he became
producer of Doctor Who.
You and I, I suspect at best the people of the future will use our
output as input for some Chat GPT-bot as research into the 21st
Cent, and, most importantly, what we might have said about them.
I wasn't aware my posts were being carved by the finger of God on the
living rocks of Mt Sinai.
'Cause in 4000 years, that's likely to be the /only/ way they
survived.
The ancient writings that survived 4000 years, after all, were mostly
if not entirely inscribed on ... rock. Or something equally durable.
And in a very dry climate. And probably spent a lot of time buried
underground.
Not as evanescent bits on a hard drive in the cloud. The changes from
cosmic rays /alone/ would render them unreadable.
David Weber has the Heirs of The Empire play a 55,000 year old video
recording in his book, "Heirs of Empire".
https://www.amazon.com/Heirs-Empire-Dahak-David-Weber/dp/0671877070/ >>>
Did I say that he did ?
However, the Third Empire technology was stout !
On 9/23/2023 10:44 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 9/23/2023 10:49 AM, Paul S Person wrote:David Weber does not write hard sf.
On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 08:52:14 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
<jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 11:05:22?AM UTC-4, Paul S Person
wrote:
On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 07:06:11 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
<jack....@gmail.com> wrote:
Among the things dgold wrote:
[re: Seveneves]
Stephenson's projection of the human race in 5,000 years is so
addled
with inconsistency, so replete with essentialisms and
stereotyping, that
it is just nonsensical. 5,000 years is 1,000 years longer than the >>>>>>> period between Ea-Nasir's complaints and today. In Stephenson's
ideation, human culture today is precisely identical in all ways >>>>>>> to the
earliest Akkadian cultures, we maintain respect and knowledge of the >>>>>>> daily lives of the Akkadians, our religions are the same.
None of that, of course, is remotely true. Society, and the people >>>>>>> making it up, has changed beyond recognition.
In Seveneves, however, people name their space-habitats after the >>>>>>> equivalent of Assur, Atlep and Qatna. Its just *bullshytte*, to
use one
of his own neologisms.
Well, that's one of the changes in our society over the last 5,000 >>>>>> years, the record-keeping.
For centuries we couldn't read cuneiform, leaving us to archeology >>>>>> for an idea of life 4,000 years ago. 4,000 years from now, people
will be able to know your opinion on these matters. Well,
theoretically. Our opinions, though preserved, are buried under
archeological layers of other peoples' opinions, protecting the
people of that time from the weight of history. (Other protections >>>>>> are being evolved even today: I can see (well, as the Solarians
would say, "view,") people deciding the course of World War II,
from the leaders to the foxholes to the home front, but there are
some folks who can't watch a black & white film. Clarke mentioned
audiences who couldn't stomach watching scenes with smoking in
them, I found that hard to believe, but have recently had
conversations with such folk.)
You actually think that ephemera like Usenet/Board ramblings will be >>>>> read 4000 years from now? Or even available to read?
Available? Yes. Read? Well... maybe.
Do we read diaries and personal mail of even ordinary folk from 100,
200, 1000, 2000 years ago? Yes, but that's because there's not a
lot of it, and the less of it there is, the more important even the
unimportant ones become.
Steven Moffat's old Usenet posts were dredged up when he became
producer of Doctor Who.
You and I, I suspect at best the people of the future will use our
output as input for some Chat GPT-bot as research into the 21st
Cent, and, most importantly, what we might have said about them.
I wasn't aware my posts were being carved by the finger of God on the
living rocks of Mt Sinai.
'Cause in 4000 years, that's likely to be the /only/ way they
survived.
The ancient writings that survived 4000 years, after all, were mostly
if not entirely inscribed on ... rock. Or something equally durable.
And in a very dry climate. And probably spent a lot of time buried
underground.
Not as evanescent bits on a hard drive in the cloud. The changes from
cosmic rays /alone/ would render them unreadable.
David Weber has the Heirs of The Empire play a 55,000 year old video
recording in his book, "Heirs of Empire".
https://www.amazon.com/Heirs-Empire-Dahak-David-Weber/dp/0671877070/ >>
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 08:52:14 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
<jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:
You and I, I suspect at best the people of the future will use our =output as input for some Chat GPT-bot as research into the 21st Cent, =
and, most importantly, what we might have said about them.
I wasn't aware my posts were being carved by the finger of God on the
living rocks of Mt Sinai.
'Cause in 4000 years, that's likely to be the /only/ way they
survived.
The ancient writings that survived 4000 years, after all, were mostly
if not entirely inscribed on ... rock. Or something equally durable.
And in a very dry climate. And probably spent a lot of time buried
underground.
Not as evanescent bits on a hard drive in the cloud. The changes from
cosmic rays /alone/ would render them unreadable.
https://www.theverge.com/2016/2/16/11018018/5d-data-storage-glass
On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 08:52:14 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
<jack....@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 11:05:22?AM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
You actually think that ephemera like Usenet/Board ramblings will be
read 4000 years from now? Or even available to read?
Available? Yes. Read? Well... maybe.
I wasn't aware my posts were being carved by the finger of God on the
living rocks of Mt Sinai.
'Cause in 4000 years, that's likely to be the /only/ way they
survived.
The ancient writings that survived 4000 years, after all, were mostly
if not entirely inscribed on ... rock. Or something equally durable.
And in a very dry climate. And probably spent a lot of time buried underground.
Not as evanescent bits on a hard drive in the cloud. The changes from
cosmic rays /alone/ would render them unreadable.
On 9/24/2023 11:53 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 08:52:14 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
<jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:
You and I, I suspect at best the people of the future will use our =output as input for some Chat GPT-bot as research into the 21st Cent, =
and, most importantly, what we might have said about them.
I wasn't aware my posts were being carved by the finger of God on the
living rocks of Mt Sinai.
'Cause in 4000 years, that's likely to be the /only/ way they
survived.
The ancient writings that survived 4000 years, after all, were mostly
if not entirely inscribed on ... rock. Or something equally durable.
And in a very dry climate. And probably spent a lot of time buried
underground.
Not as evanescent bits on a hard drive in the cloud. The changes from
cosmic rays /alone/ would render them unreadable.
https://www.theverge.com/2016/2/16/11018018/5d-data-storage-glass
That is a 2016 article.
My guess is that they ran into the same
problems that IBM ran into.
Paul S Person wrote:
On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 08:52:14 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
<jack....@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 11:05:22?AM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote: >> >
You actually think that ephemera like Usenet/Board ramblings will be
read 4000 years from now? Or even available to read?
Available? Yes. Read? Well... maybe.
I wasn't aware my posts were being carved by the finger of God on the
living rocks of Mt Sinai.
'Cause in 4000 years, that's likely to be the /only/ way they
survived.
The ancient writings that survived 4000 years, after all, were mostly
if not entirely inscribed on ... rock. Or something equally durable.
And in a very dry climate. And probably spent a lot of time buried
underground.
Not as evanescent bits on a hard drive in the cloud. The changes from
cosmic rays /alone/ would render them unreadable.
You do backups, don't you? I don't as often as I should, yet I dare say there are some old files the computer has "looked at" more often than I have recently -- some perhaps in total.
On personal equipment, continuity may vary; some parents might give the kids a copy of the backup when they move out, they might have to return to the homestead after a death in the family to deal with the parents records. On commercial storage... well,a combination of lawsuit avoidance and government edict ("for security") is leading to saving everything, copied to new formats, not by ranks of monks, but computers using part of their processing in their spare time.
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
On 9/24/2023 11:53 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 08:52:14 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
<jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:
You and I, I suspect at best the people of the future will use our =output as input for some Chat GPT-bot as research into the 21st Cent, = >>>> and, most importantly, what we might have said about them.
I wasn't aware my posts were being carved by the finger of God on the
living rocks of Mt Sinai.
'Cause in 4000 years, that's likely to be the /only/ way they
survived.
The ancient writings that survived 4000 years, after all, were mostly
if not entirely inscribed on ... rock. Or something equally durable.
And in a very dry climate. And probably spent a lot of time buried
underground.
Not as evanescent bits on a hard drive in the cloud. The changes from
cosmic rays /alone/ would render them unreadable.
https://www.theverge.com/2016/2/16/11018018/5d-data-storage-glass
That is a 2016 article.
Yes, it notes that right in the URL itself.
My guess is that they ran into the same
problems that IBM ran into.
The technology was used to store a copy of the Foundation trilogy
and hitched a ride on a Tesla Roadster currently orbiting the
sun.
On 9/25/2023 10:45 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
On 9/24/2023 11:53 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 08:52:14 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
<jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:
You and I, I suspect at best the people of the future will use our = >>>>> output as input for some Chat GPT-bot as research into the 21stCent, =
and, most importantly, what we might have said about them.
I wasn't aware my posts were being carved by the finger of God on the >>>>> living rocks of Mt Sinai.
'Cause in 4000 years, that's likely to be the /only/ way they
survived.
The ancient writings that survived 4000 years, after all, were mostly >>>>> if not entirely inscribed on ... rock. Or something equally durable. >>>>> And in a very dry climate. And probably spent a lot of time buried
underground.
Not as evanescent bits on a hard drive in the cloud. The changes from >>>>> cosmic rays /alone/ would render them unreadable.
https://www.theverge.com/2016/2/16/11018018/5d-data-storage-glass
That is a 2016 article.
Yes, it notes that right in the URL itself.
My guess is that they ran into the same
problems that IBM ran into.
The technology was used to store a copy of the Foundation trilogy
and hitched a ride on a Tesla Roadster currently orbiting the
sun.
So, the Foundation trilogy in epub or PDF format ?
If epub, that would be, 3 MB ? Not much there.
And what are they trying to prove ? Is somebody going to lasso the
roadster in and retrieve the disk in 500 years ?
On 9/25/2023 4:01 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 9/25/2023 10:45 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> writes:
On 9/24/2023 11:53 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Paul S Person <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 08:52:14 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
<jack....@gmail.com> wrote:
You and I, I suspect at best the people of the future will use our = >>>>> output as input for some Chat GPT-bot as research into the 21stCent, =
and, most importantly, what we might have said about them.
I wasn't aware my posts were being carved by the finger of God on the >>>>> living rocks of Mt Sinai.
'Cause in 4000 years, that's likely to be the /only/ way they
survived.
The ancient writings that survived 4000 years, after all, were mostly >>>>> if not entirely inscribed on ... rock. Or something equally durable. >>>>> And in a very dry climate. And probably spent a lot of time buried >>>>> underground.
Not as evanescent bits on a hard drive in the cloud. The changes from >>>>> cosmic rays /alone/ would render them unreadable.
https://www.theverge.com/2016/2/16/11018018/5d-data-storage-glass
That is a 2016 article.
Yes, it notes that right in the URL itself.
My guess is that they ran into the same
problems that IBM ran into.
The technology was used to store a copy of the Foundation trilogy
and hitched a ride on a Tesla Roadster currently orbiting the
sun.
So, the Foundation trilogy in epub or PDF format ?
If epub, that would be, 3 MB ? Not much there.
And what are they trying to prove ? Is somebody going to lasso the roadster in and retrieve the disk in 500 years ?
The whole thing was just an ego boost and PR stunt for Musk. A 500 year later retrieval mission is only happening if he buys a cryogenics
company that gets something that works developed really, REALLY fast.
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 7:35:10 PM UTC-4, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
On 9/25/2023 4:01 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 9/25/2023 10:45 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:The whole thing was just an ego boost and PR stunt for Musk. A 500 year
Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> writes:
On 9/24/2023 11:53 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Paul S Person <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 08:52:14 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
<jack....@gmail.com> wrote:
You and I, I suspect at best the people of the future will use our = >>>>>>> output as input for some Chat GPT-bot as research into the 21stCent, =
and, most importantly, what we might have said about them.
I wasn't aware my posts were being carved by the finger of God on the >>>>>>> living rocks of Mt Sinai.
'Cause in 4000 years, that's likely to be the /only/ way they
survived.
The ancient writings that survived 4000 years, after all, were mostly >>>>>>> if not entirely inscribed on ... rock. Or something equally durable. >>>>>>> And in a very dry climate. And probably spent a lot of time buried >>>>>>> underground.
Not as evanescent bits on a hard drive in the cloud. The changes from >>>>>>> cosmic rays /alone/ would render them unreadable.
https://www.theverge.com/2016/2/16/11018018/5d-data-storage-glass
That is a 2016 article.
Yes, it notes that right in the URL itself.
My guess is that they ran into the same
problems that IBM ran into.
The technology was used to store a copy of the Foundation trilogy
and hitched a ride on a Tesla Roadster currently orbiting the
sun.
So, the Foundation trilogy in epub or PDF format ?
If epub, that would be, 3 MB ? Not much there.
And what are they trying to prove ? Is somebody going to lasso the
roadster in and retrieve the disk in 500 years ?
later retrieval mission is only happening if he buys a cryogenics
company that gets something that works developed really, REALLY fast.
Would a concrete block as a mass simulator have been your preference?
The roadster served a purpose, and complaining about it carries a whiff of sour grapes.
There's and article about the stored Foundation copy here: https://abc30.com/tesla-roadster-elon-musk-arch-mission-foundation/3062830/
Pt
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 7:35:10 PM UTC-4, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
On 9/25/2023 4:01 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 9/25/2023 10:45 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:The whole thing was just an ego boost and PR stunt for Musk. A 500 year
Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> writes:
On 9/24/2023 11:53 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Paul S Person <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 08:52:14 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
<jack....@gmail.com> wrote:
You and I, I suspect at best the people of the future will use our = >>>>>>> output as input for some Chat GPT-bot as research into the 21stCent, =
and, most importantly, what we might have said about them.
I wasn't aware my posts were being carved by the finger of God on the >>>>>>> living rocks of Mt Sinai.
'Cause in 4000 years, that's likely to be the /only/ way they
survived.
The ancient writings that survived 4000 years, after all, were mostly >>>>>>> if not entirely inscribed on ... rock. Or something equally durable. >>>>>>> And in a very dry climate. And probably spent a lot of time buried >>>>>>> underground.
Not as evanescent bits on a hard drive in the cloud. The changes from >>>>>>> cosmic rays /alone/ would render them unreadable.
https://www.theverge.com/2016/2/16/11018018/5d-data-storage-glass
That is a 2016 article.
Yes, it notes that right in the URL itself.
My guess is that they ran into the same
problems that IBM ran into.
The technology was used to store a copy of the Foundation trilogy
and hitched a ride on a Tesla Roadster currently orbiting the
sun.
So, the Foundation trilogy in epub or PDF format ?
If epub, that would be, 3 MB ? Not much there.
And what are they trying to prove ? Is somebody going to lasso the
roadster in and retrieve the disk in 500 years ?
later retrieval mission is only happening if he buys a cryogenics
company that gets something that works developed really, REALLY fast.
Would a concrete block as a mass simulator have been your preference?
The roadster served a purpose, and complaining about it carries a whiff of sour grapes.
There's and article about the stored Foundation copy here: https://abc30.com/tesla-roadster-elon-musk-arch-mission-foundation/3062830/
Pt
ObSF: There are at least two Russian stories in which Lenin's mummy
is not quite dead -- https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1842886
and https://fantlab.ru/work13324 (not in ISFDB yet.)
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