rec.arts.sf.written Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) by Evelyn Leeper at:Just out of curiosity, has this web page been updated in recent history?
  http://leepers.us/evelyn/faqs/sf-written.htm
"rec.arts.sf.written is a newsgroup devoted to discussions of written
SF. It is a high-volume newsgroup and this article is intended to help
reduce the number of unnecessary postings, thereby making it more useful
and enjoyable to everyone."
""SF" as used here means "speculative fiction" and includes science
fiction, fantasy, horror (a.k.a. dark fantasy), etc."
Lynn
On 6/12/23 12:30, Lynn McGuire wrote:
rec.arts.sf.written Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) by Evelyn Leeper at:
http://leepers.us/evelyn/faqs/sf-written.htm
"rec.arts.sf.written is a newsgroup devoted to discussions of written
SF. It is a high-volume newsgroup and this article is intended to help reduce the number of unnecessary postings, thereby making it more useful and enjoyable to everyone."
""SF" as used here means "speculative fiction" and includes science fiction, fantasy, horror (a.k.a. dark fantasy), etc."
LynnJust out of curiosity, has this web page been updated in recent history?
On 6/12/23 12:30, Lynn McGuire wrote:
rec.arts.sf.written Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) by Evelyn Leeper at:Just out of curiosity, has this web page been updated in recent history?
   http://leepers.us/evelyn/faqs/sf-written.htm
"rec.arts.sf.written is a newsgroup devoted to discussions of written
SF. It is a high-volume newsgroup and this article is intended to help
reduce the number of unnecessary postings, thereby making it more
useful and enjoyable to everyone."
""SF" as used here means "speculative fiction" and includes science
fiction, fantasy, horror (a.k.a. dark fantasy), etc."
Lynn
On 2/13/2024 11:46 AM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
On 2/12/2024 8:33 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
rec.arts.sf.written Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) by Evelyn Leeper
at:
   http://leepers.us/evelyn/faqs/sf-written.htm
"rec.arts.sf.written is a newsgroup devoted to discussions of written
SF. It is a high-volume newsgroup and this article is intended to
help reduce the number of unnecessary postings, thereby making it
more useful and enjoyable to everyone."
""SF" as used here means "speculative fiction" and includes science
fiction, fantasy, horror (a.k.a. dark fantasy), etc."
Lynn
I was at Boskone over the weekend, and several program items were using
the abbreviation "SFFH" where I'd expect to see SF or SFF. I *think* the
H was for Horror.
Is that the case? Have others seen this term before?
I am seeing people say "Dark Fantasy" instead of "Horror" now.
On 2/13/2024 3:32 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 2/13/2024 11:46 AM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
On 2/12/2024 8:33 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
rec.arts.sf.written Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) by Evelyn Leeper
at:
   http://leepers.us/evelyn/faqs/sf-written.htm
"rec.arts.sf.written is a newsgroup devoted to discussions of written
SF. It is a high-volume newsgroup and this article is intended to
help reduce the number of unnecessary postings, thereby making it
more useful and enjoyable to everyone."
""SF" as used here means "speculative fiction" and includes science
fiction, fantasy, horror (a.k.a. dark fantasy), etc."
Lynn
I was at Boskone over the weekend, and several program items were using
the abbreviation "SFFH" where I'd expect to see SF or SFF. I *think* the >>> H was for Horror.
Is that the case? Have others seen this term before?
I am seeing people say "Dark Fantasy" instead of "Horror" now.
The tricky thing about "horror" as a genre is that it encompassed both >"psychological horror" and "supernatural horror". The latter is part and >parcel of "speculative fiction" while the former is not.
In many cases publishers do not advertise what kind of horror their
books are, presumably because they don't want to spoil the ending.
That's great is you like both types of horror, but not so great if you
are only interested in one type. (Or if you are an SF bibliographer. Not
that I am complaining or anything.)
On 2/13/2024 11:46 AM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
On 2/12/2024 8:33 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
rec.arts.sf.written Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) by Evelyn Leeper at: >>> http://leepers.us/evelyn/faqs/sf-written.htm
"rec.arts.sf.written is a newsgroup devoted to discussions of written
SF. It is a high-volume newsgroup and this article is intended to help
reduce the number of unnecessary postings, thereby making it more
useful and enjoyable to everyone."
""SF" as used here means "speculative fiction" and includes science
fiction, fantasy, horror (a.k.a. dark fantasy), etc."
Lynn
I was at Boskone over the weekend, and several program items were using
the abbreviation "SFFH" where I'd expect to see SF or SFF. I *think* the
H was for Horror.
Is that the case? Have others seen this term before?
pt
I am seeing people say "Dark Fantasy" instead of "Horror" now.
In article <uqgk5j$28a88$1@dont-email.me>,
Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> wrote:
On 2/13/2024 3:32 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 2/13/2024 11:46 AM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
On 2/12/2024 8:33 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
rec.arts.sf.written Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) by Evelyn Leeper >>>>> at:
   http://leepers.us/evelyn/faqs/sf-written.htm
"rec.arts.sf.written is a newsgroup devoted to discussions of written >>>>> SF. It is a high-volume newsgroup and this article is intended to
help reduce the number of unnecessary postings, thereby making it
more useful and enjoyable to everyone."
""SF" as used here means "speculative fiction" and includes science
fiction, fantasy, horror (a.k.a. dark fantasy), etc."
Lynn
I was at Boskone over the weekend, and several program items were using >>>> the abbreviation "SFFH" where I'd expect to see SF or SFF. I *think* the >>>> H was for Horror.
Is that the case? Have others seen this term before?
I am seeing people say "Dark Fantasy" instead of "Horror" now.
The tricky thing about "horror" as a genre is that it encompassed both
"psychological horror" and "supernatural horror". The latter is part and
parcel of "speculative fiction" while the former is not.
In many cases publishers do not advertise what kind of horror their
books are, presumably because they don't want to spoil the ending.
That's great is you like both types of horror, but not so great if you
are only interested in one type. (Or if you are an SF bibliographer. Not
that I am complaining or anything.)
So Robert Bloch's _Psycho_ should not be on isfdb? :-)
Works (both fiction and non-fiction) which are not related tospeculative fiction, but were produced by authors who have otherwise
This "certain threshold" is hard to define, but we need to draw theline in a way that would exclude Winston Churchill, who published at
On 2/13/2024 3:58 PM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
In article <uqgk5j$28a88$1@dont-email.me>,
Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> wrote:
On 2/13/2024 3:32 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 2/13/2024 11:46 AM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
On 2/12/2024 8:33 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
rec.arts.sf.written Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) by Evelyn Leeper >>>>>> at:
    http://leepers.us/evelyn/faqs/sf-written.htm
"rec.arts.sf.written is a newsgroup devoted to discussions of written >>>>>> SF. It is a high-volume newsgroup and this article is intended to
help reduce the number of unnecessary postings, thereby making it
more useful and enjoyable to everyone."
""SF" as used here means "speculative fiction" and includes science >>>>>> fiction, fantasy, horror (a.k.a. dark fantasy), etc."
Lynn
I was at Boskone over the weekend, and several program items were
using
the abbreviation "SFFH" where I'd expect to see SF or SFF. I
*think* the
H was for Horror.
Is that the case? Have others seen this term before?
I am seeing people say "Dark Fantasy" instead of "Horror" now.
The tricky thing about "horror" as a genre is that it encompassed both
"psychological horror" and "supernatural horror". The latter is part and >>> parcel of "speculative fiction" while the former is not.
In many cases publishers do not advertise what kind of horror their
books are, presumably because they don't want to spoil the ending.
That's great is you like both types of horror, but not so great if you
are only interested in one type. (Or if you are an SF bibliographer. Not >>> that I am complaining or anything.)
So Robert Bloch's _Psycho_ should not be on isfdb? :-)
As per https://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/ISFDB:Policy , we include:
Works (both fiction and non-fiction) which are not related tospeculative fiction, but were produced by authors who have otherwise published works either of or about speculative fiction over a certain threshold (see below). This includes any non-genre works published as standalone books as well as non-genre short fiction, but excludes
non-fiction which was not published as a standalone book. Thus, Poul Anderson's mysteries and his non-fiction book about thermonuclear
weapons will be included, but Gregory Benford's professionally published scientific articles will be excluded.
This "certain threshold" is hard to define, but we need to draw theline in a way that would exclude Winston Churchill, who published at
least one work of borderline speculative fiction. The goal here is to
avoid cataloging everything ever published by James Fenimore Cooper,
Robert Louis Stevenson, Honoré de Balzac and other popular authors.
Instead, we want to catalog their speculative fiction works only.
On 2/13/2024 7:51 PM, Ahasuerus wrote:
On 2/13/2024 3:58 PM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:Sir! How dare you have standards!!!
In article <uqgk5j$28a88$1@dont-email.me>,
Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> wrote:
[snip-snip]
The tricky thing about "horror" as a genre is that it encompassed both >>>> "psychological horror" and "supernatural horror". The latter is part
and
parcel of "speculative fiction" while the former is not.
In many cases publishers do not advertise what kind of horror their
books are, presumably because they don't want to spoil the ending.
That's great is you like both types of horror, but not so great if you >>>> are only interested in one type. (Or if you are an SF bibliographer.
Not
that I am complaining or anything.)
So Robert Bloch's _Psycho_ should not be on isfdb? :-)
As per https://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/ISFDB:Policy , we include:
Works (both fiction and non-fiction) which are not related tospeculative fiction, but were produced by authors who have otherwise
published works either of or about speculative fiction over a certain
threshold (see below). This includes any non-genre works published as
standalone books as well as non-genre short fiction, but excludes
non-fiction which was not published as a standalone book. Thus, Poul
Anderson's mysteries and his non-fiction book about thermonuclear
weapons will be included, but Gregory Benford's professionally
published scientific articles will be excluded.
This "certain threshold" is hard to define, but we need to draw theline in a way that would exclude Winston Churchill, who published at
least one work of borderline speculative fiction. The goal here is to
avoid cataloging everything ever published by James Fenimore Cooper,
Robert Louis Stevenson, Honoré de Balzac and other popular authors.
Instead, we want to catalog their speculative fiction works only.
:P
On 2/14/2024 7:13 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:...
I'd use a category of Horror to hold
works where causing the reader to feel
anxiety or disgust is the evident
intention of a work, not wonder and
delight from science or from magic
when these elements are present.
But on the other hand, I've been
gradually, more and more, finding
a lot of "ordinary" science fiction
and fantasy as horrific. Maybe
because the real world is increasingly
giving me anxiety and disgust.
This surprises me, since I've always considered
Horror to be a different genre, not linked to
Fantasy or Science Fiction. Similar to how the
Romance or Western genres are unlinked from F*SF.
On 15/02/2024 19:19, Chris Buckley wrote:
On 2024-02-15, Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2/14/2024 7:13 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:...
I'd use a category of Horror to hold
works where causing the reader to feel
anxiety or disgust is the evident
intention of a work, not wonder and
delight from science or from magic
when these elements are present.
But on the other hand, I've been
gradually, more and more, finding
a lot of "ordinary" science fiction
and fantasy as horrific. Maybe
because the real world is increasingly
giving me anxiety and disgust.
This surprises me, since I've always considered
Horror to be a different genre, not linked to
Fantasy or Science Fiction. Similar to how the
Romance or Western genres are unlinked from F*SF.
Really? I've basically considered Horror to be a subgenre of Fantasy.
Lovecraft is a prime early example, but Stephen King and Brian Lumley
have won the Life Achievement World Fantasy Award for instance. There
was a yearly _Year's Best Fantasy and Horror_ for more than 20 years.
_Weird Tales_ is explicitly fantasy and horror, starting over 100
years ago and evidently is still going today (with several restarts.)
A good number of stories that James has talked about in his anthology
reviews first appeared in _Weird Tales_.
There's currently a huge Romance Fantasy subgenre out there now
(hundreds of books); I see Barnes and Noble has really been pushing
it. Science Fiction and Romance seems less common, though I would say
Asaro has been writing it for decades.
Westerns are somewhat rarer. Certainly Resnick's _Santiago_ series is
pretty pure Western. Early SF pulps were sometimes Westerns transported
into space.
Almost any classification boundary will have debatable items right at
the boundary.
I consider Horror is about the feeling produced,
and the cause doesn't have to be fantastic.
An unloving partner, a missing child, a rabid
dog, a natural disaster, or a career criminal
with a grievance, can make a horror story -
if it's told that way. It might require that
either plausibility or a character's reasonable
competence is sacrificed to achieve the effect.
For instance, you call the police but the
criminal has bribed them, or you call Animal
Control and the dog eats them. (I don't know
what does happen in _Cujo_. Probably not this.)
Of course, sci fi and fantasy are usually
considered to be outside the range of
plausibility, though some people believe
in fantasy stuff, perhaps especially as in
_The Exorcist_ (a demon takes control of a
human being).
Apparently some people now are saying
"Romantasy" but I think I didn't hear that
here, either. I thought we were calling
non-science speculative fiction with a love
plot "paranormal romance". Romantasy also
is sexy, I gather, but these days, what isn't?
And in sci fi of course, there's planetary
romance. :-)
Works (both fiction and non-fiction) which are not related tospeculative fiction, but were produced by authors who have otherwise >published works either of or about speculative fiction over a certain >threshold (see below). This includes any non-genre works published as >standalone books as well as non-genre short fiction, but excludes
non-fiction which was not published as a standalone book. Thus, Poul >Anderson's mysteries and his non-fiction book about thermonuclear
weapons will be included, but Gregory Benford's professionally published >scientific articles will be excluded.
I'd use a category of Horror to hold
works where causing the reader to feel
anxiety or disgust is the evident
intention of a work, not wonder and
delight from science or from magic
when these elements are present.
But on the other hand, I've been
gradually, more and more, finding
a lot of "ordinary" science fiction
and fantasy as horrific. Maybe
because the real world is increasingly
giving me anxiety and disgust.
On Tue, 13 Feb 2024 22:51:52 -0500, Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com>
wrote:
So how would you catagorize Asimov's books on chemistry + physicsWorks (both fiction and non-fiction) which are not related tospeculative fiction, but were produced by authors who have otherwise
published works either of or about speculative fiction over a certain
threshold (see below). This includes any non-genre works published as
standalone books as well as non-genre short fiction, but excludes
non-fiction which was not published as a standalone book. Thus, Poul
Anderson's mysteries and his non-fiction book about thermonuclear
weapons will be included, but Gregory Benford's professionally published
scientific articles will be excluded.
(which were written at a level a smart high schooler could handle -
like me several decades ago) and which I read before I started
devouring his SF efforts on a wholesale basis? (Before getting started
on Heinlein and Bradbury)
One could go to see if they're included.
Of course, cataloguing Isaac Asimov is
like moving a mountain by sharpening your
beak against it. I think I heard on radio
his editor describing commissioning a book
about Gilbert and Sullivan comic operetta
by accident. Dr Asimov mentioned to her
one day that it was an idea that he'd had.
The next time that they spoke, he told her
he'd finished writing it. I may have
muddled this. But I think it's in ISFDB -
the book is, I don't know about the anecdote.
On Tue, 20 Feb 2024 11:05:39 +0000, Robert Carnegie
<rja.carnegie@gmail.com> wrote:
One could go to see if they're included.
Of course, cataloguing Isaac Asimov is
like moving a mountain by sharpening your
beak against it. I think I heard on radio
his editor describing commissioning a book
about Gilbert and Sullivan comic operetta
by accident. Dr Asimov mentioned to her
one day that it was an idea that he'd had.
The next time that they spoke, he told her
he'd finished writing it. I may have
muddled this. But I think it's in ISFDB -
the book is, I don't know about the anecdote.
My favorite Asimov story was the time after multiple drinks and being
at least half way in his cups at a con he was asked to compose a
'filk-song' He was asked to sing one that he had just composed on the
spot, Asimov asked 'on what subject?' "Biochemistry!"
So he came up with
"Oh give me a clone
Of my own flesh and bone
With the Y chromosome turned to X
And when we're alone, just me and my clone
We will both talk of nothing but sex
(there was a chorus which I've forgotten)
He was greeted by cheers and offered more drink....
I remember that story, but I thought Asimov was relating something
Gordon Dickson had come up with?
(Also should probably mention, if that's not obvious across the ponds,
that the tune is from the American folksong "Home On The Range").
How many filksongs had original music? Precious few in my memory...
On Wed, 06 Mar 2024 23:37:34 -0800, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
wrote:
How many filksongs had original music? Precious few in my memory...
Isn't filk, by definition, written for a pre-existing tune?
In article <07lnuitrgta2gijn36s55e2kbej1l5r3dp@4ax.com>,
Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
On Wed, 06 Mar 2024 23:37:34 -0800, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
wrote:
How many filksongs had original music? Precious few in my memory...
Isn't filk, by definition, written for a pre-existing tune?
No. Filk music, by definition, is anything that filkers play.
There are some performers, like Leslie Fish or Kathy Mar, who are most >well-known for original tunes. There are many who are not.
I urge you to spend all of your money and buy various Balticon and Worldcon >compilation recordings to have the complete filk experience. Invest in CDs. >--scott
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