• (tor dot com) Five Ways to Justify Huge Rocks Smashing Into Earth (in S

    From James Nicoll@21:1/5 to All on Mon Apr 3 14:11:45 2023
    Five Ways to Justify Huge Rocks Smashing Into Earth (in Spite of
    Science)

    How to salvage a beloved stock science fiction plot from the cruel
    ravages of applied science.

    https://www.tor.com/2023/04/03/five-ways-to-justify-huge-rocks-smashing-into-earth-in-spite-of-science/
    --
    My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
    My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
    My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
    My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Johnny1A@21:1/5 to James Nicoll on Mon Apr 3 11:13:49 2023
    On Monday, April 3, 2023 at 9:11:49 AM UTC-5, James Nicoll wrote:
    Five Ways to Justify Huge Rocks Smashing Into Earth (in Spite of
    Science)

    How to salvage a beloved stock science fiction plot from the cruel
    ravages of applied science.

    https://www.tor.com/2023/04/03/five-ways-to-justify-huge-rocks-smashing-into-earth-in-spite-of-science/


    It doesn't really require much justification for the smaller rocks, there are lots of them, not all are identified as the review notes, and it's by no means super-improbable that a small one, a city-destroyer, could hit Earth. It's happened many times
    in relatively recent geological history.

    Now as a matter of odds, a city-destroyer would most likely hit the ocean, or a rural countryside, but that would still be problematic, esp. the latter, and even once you knew a CD was on track to strike Earth, you wouldn't be able to pin down exactly
    where with great precision until very near the impact. It's by no means a stretch for an SF story to include a city-destroyer on track to hit Earth.

    I've always found the 'asteroid impactor as weapon' scenario improbable, not because it couldn't be done, but because it doesn't do anything that a nuke doesn't do more easily and cheaply, plus it takes longer. ISTM that unless you're planning world-
    wide effects, which requires steering a relatively big rock onto a collision trajectory and also waiting a long time for it to hit, rocks-as-weapons is the Hard Way. (If you have enough delta-V to slam a Chicxulub-size rock onto the target in a short
    time, you can probably do the nasty directly much faster anyway, that's a _lot_ of energy.)

    About the only way the world-wide-effect size rock makes sense as a weapon, ISTM, is if the attacker has lots and lots of time to wait for a rock to be in a convenient orbit, or doesn't mind waiting years or decades for the payoff, and wants to make it
    look like a natural event. It might make sense then.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scott Lurndal@21:1/5 to johnny1a.again@gmail.com on Mon Apr 3 18:44:53 2023
    Johnny1A <johnny1a.again@gmail.com> writes:
    On Monday, April 3, 2023 at 9:11:49=E2=80=AFAM UTC-5, James Nicoll wrote:
    Five Ways to Justify Huge Rocks Smashing Into Earth (in Spite of=20
    Science)=20
    =20
    How to salvage a beloved stock science fiction plot from the cruel=20
    ravages of applied science.=20
    =20
    https://www.tor.com/2023/04/03/five-ways-to-justify-huge-rocks-smashing-i= >nto-earth-in-spite-of-science/=20


    It doesn't really require much justification for the smaller rocks, there a= >re lots of them, not all are identified as the review notes, and it's by no=
    means super-improbable that a small one, a city-destroyer, could hit Earth=
    . It's happened many times in relatively recent geological history.

    A 60 foot diameter rock recently entered the atmosphere (10kt) and
    the resulting explosion was equivalent to 400-500 kilotons TNT, which is substantially
    larger than either Hiroshima or Nagasaki. Carefully aimed (assuming
    similar velocity of 42,000mph), that will make a mess of most cities.

    The challenge is achieving that velocity, of course.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jack Bohn@21:1/5 to All on Mon Apr 3 13:01:52 2023
    Johnny1A wrote:

    I've always found the 'asteroid impactor as weapon' scenario improbable, not because it couldn't be done, but because it doesn't do anything that a nuke doesn't do more easily and cheaply, plus it takes longer.

    Well, unless you already have a mass driver on the Moon you could use.

    --
    -Jack

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From James Nicoll@21:1/5 to tonynance17@gmail.com on Mon Apr 3 20:54:25 2023
    In article <b63410f7-2bb0-440c-97cc-b4f4e7bdb092n@googlegroups.com>,
    Tony Nance <tonynance17@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Monday, April 3, 2023 at 10:11:49 AM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
    Five Ways to Justify Huge Rocks Smashing Into Earth (in Spite of
    Science)

    How to salvage a beloved stock science fiction plot from the cruel
    ravages of applied science.

    https://www.tor.com/2023/04/03/five-ways-to-justify-huge-rocks-smashing-into-earth-in-spite-of-science/


    You will be amused to know that this article is currently[1]
    featured[2] in the Science section of the[3] news.google.com
    newsfeed, right between "SpaceX moves Starship to launch site,
    and liftoff could be just days away" and "New James Webb telescope
    photo of a galaxy cluster 6 billion light years away shows a trippy >phenomenon where gravity warps spacetime"

    Tony
    [1] April 3, 4:45pm EDT
    [2] 18th position down the list
    [3] Is it "the", or just "my"? I have never entered any preferences,
    but that doesn't mean they haven't auto-inferred and
    auto-implemented
    some, of course.


    Cool!

    Back when I was on LJ, which was more visible to google than DreamWidth
    is, I'd ask a question, then do a search on google for which the
    first hit was often me asking the question. Major egoboo but also
    not helpful.

    (I did once notice an odd assertion in a wikipedia article, tracked
    it back to the source to discover I was the source. Also not
    helpful)
    --
    My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
    My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
    My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
    My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony Nance@21:1/5 to James Nicoll on Mon Apr 3 13:45:13 2023
    On Monday, April 3, 2023 at 10:11:49 AM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
    Five Ways to Justify Huge Rocks Smashing Into Earth (in Spite of
    Science)

    How to salvage a beloved stock science fiction plot from the cruel
    ravages of applied science.

    https://www.tor.com/2023/04/03/five-ways-to-justify-huge-rocks-smashing-into-earth-in-spite-of-science/


    You will be amused to know that this article is currently[1]
    featured[2] in the Science section of the[3] news.google.com
    newsfeed, right between "SpaceX moves Starship to launch site,
    and liftoff could be just days away" and "New James Webb telescope
    photo of a galaxy cluster 6 billion light years away shows a trippy
    phenomenon where gravity warps spacetime"

    Tony
    [1] April 3, 4:45pm EDT
    [2] 18th position down the list
    [3] Is it "the", or just "my"? I have never entered any preferences,
    but that doesn't mean they haven't auto-inferred and auto-implemented
    some, of course.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Steve Coltrin@21:1/5 to James Nicoll on Mon Apr 3 16:44:52 2023
    begin fnord
    jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:

    Back when I was on LJ, which was more visible to google than DreamWidth
    is

    DW has an account setting that's something like "tell search engines not
    to index my posts". I never see anything on your DW when I google
    "site:... <text>", so I figured you had that turned on.

    --
    Steve Coltrin spcoltri@omcl.org Google Groups killfiled here
    "A group known as the League of Human Dignity helped arrange for Deuel
    to be driven to a local livestock scale, where he could be weighed."
    - Associated Press

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From James Nicoll@21:1/5 to spcoltri@omcl.org on Tue Apr 4 02:50:09 2023
    In article <m2o7o4oaaj.fsf@kelutral.omcl.org>,
    Steve Coltrin <spcoltri@omcl.org> wrote:
    begin fnord
    jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:

    Back when I was on LJ, which was more visible to google than DreamWidth
    is

    DW has an account setting that's something like "tell search engines not
    to index my posts". I never see anything on your DW when I google
    "site:... <text>", so I figured you had that turned on.

    Nope!

    --
    My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
    My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
    My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
    My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Quadibloc@21:1/5 to Scott Lurndal on Mon Apr 3 19:20:47 2023
    On Monday, April 3, 2023 at 12:44:58 PM UTC-6, Scott Lurndal wrote:

    A 60 foot diameter rock recently entered the atmosphere (10kt) and
    the resulting explosion was equivalent to 400-500 kilotons TNT, which is substantially
    larger than either Hiroshima or Nagasaki.

    Given all these recent news headlines of the form: NASA *warns humanity* that giant
    space rock is headed in Earth's direction, even though they're absolutely certain it
    closer to the Earth than three times the Moon's distance...

    As opposed to merely advising such members of humanity who might have an interest
    in such things - usually, a *warning* relates to something that actually poses a *threat*...

    I'm surprised I haven't heard of this.

    John Savard

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Quadibloc@21:1/5 to Quadibloc on Mon Apr 3 19:23:47 2023
    On Monday, April 3, 2023 at 8:20:50 PM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:
    On Monday, April 3, 2023 at 12:44:58 PM UTC-6, Scott Lurndal wrote:

    A 60 foot diameter rock recently entered the atmosphere (10kt) and
    the resulting explosion was equivalent to 400-500 kilotons TNT, which is substantially
    larger than either Hiroshima or Nagasaki.
    Given all these recent news headlines of the form: NASA *warns humanity* that giant
    space rock is headed in Earth's direction, even though they're absolutely certain it
    closer to the Earth than three times the Moon's distance...

    As opposed to merely advising such members of humanity who might have an interest
    in such things - usually, a *warning* relates to something that actually poses a *threat*...

    I'm surprised I haven't heard of this.

    Ah, what you were referring to was the Chelyabinsk meteor of February 15, 2013.

    Okay, _that_ one did come to my attention at the time.

    John Savard

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gary R. Schmidt@21:1/5 to All on Tue Apr 4 14:21:34 2023
    On 04/04/2023 04:13, Johnny1A wrote:
    On Monday, April 3, 2023 at 9:11:49 AM UTC-5, James Nicoll wrote:
    Five Ways to Justify Huge Rocks Smashing Into Earth (in Spite of
    Science)

    How to salvage a beloved stock science fiction plot from the cruel
    ravages of applied science.

    https://www.tor.com/2023/04/03/five-ways-to-justify-huge-rocks-smashing-into-earth-in-spite-of-science/


    It doesn't really require much justification for the smaller rocks, there are lots of them, not all are identified as the review notes, and it's by no means super-improbable that a small one, a city-destroyer, could hit Earth. It's happened many times
    in relatively recent geological history.

    Now as a matter of odds, a city-destroyer would most likely hit the ocean, or a rural countryside, but that would still be problematic, esp. the latter, and even once you knew a CD was on track to strike Earth, you wouldn't be able to pin down exactly
    where with great precision until very near the impact. It's by no means a stretch for an SF story to include a city-destroyer on track to hit Earth.

    I've always found the 'asteroid impactor as weapon' scenario improbable, not because it couldn't be done, but because it doesn't do anything that a nuke doesn't do more easily and cheaply, plus it takes longer. ISTM that unless you're planning world-
    wide effects, which requires steering a relatively big rock onto a collision trajectory and also waiting a long time for it to hit, rocks-as-weapons is the Hard Way. (If you have enough delta-V to slam a Chicxulub-size rock onto the target in a short
    time, you can probably do the nasty directly much faster anyway, that's a _lot_ of energy.)

    About the only way the world-wide-effect size rock makes sense as a weapon, ISTM, is if the attacker has lots and lots of time to wait for a rock to be in a convenient orbit, or doesn't mind waiting years or decades for the payoff, and wants to make it
    look like a natural event. It might make sense then.

    Yes, of course, if it will look natural, then that's a bonus - cue the Merseians finding that loose planet that was heading towards Starkad,
    well, that's just so deniable...

    Cheers,
    Gary B-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jack Bohn@21:1/5 to Quadibloc on Tue Apr 4 06:41:46 2023
    Quadibloc wrote:
    On Monday, April 3, 2023 at 12:44:58 PM UTC-6, Scott Lurndal wrote:

    A 60 foot diameter rock recently entered the atmosphere (10kt) and
    the resulting explosion was equivalent to 400-500 kilotons TNT, which is substantially
    larger than either Hiroshima or Nagasaki.

    Given all these recent news headlines of the form: NASA *warns humanity* that giant
    space rock is headed in Earth's direction, even though they're absolutely certain it
    closer to the Earth than three times the Moon's distance...

    As opposed to merely advising such members of humanity who might have an interest
    in such things - usually, a *warning* relates to something that actually poses a *threat*...

    This is the time of year when we are reminded that a "Tornado Watch" is an alert to watch for tornadoes; the weather conditions have become favorable to tornado formation.
    The "Tornado Warning" is warning of an actual sighting by eye or radar of a tornado. So using the correct word is important.

    Can citizen-astronomers watch these rocks a million or more miles out? They could pretend the press release is a notification for folks with large reflectors or long exposure setups, or pocket areciboes rather than being the chicken little boy who cried
    wolf.

    (I believe I've mentioned my brother has appointed me tech support for the devices he gives our mom. I've had to rehearse her in the word "notifications," as when her Echo Dot is non-responsive, with lights chasing themselves around the rim, she has to
    ask it, "what are my notifications?" to free it up. This is how I found out the National Weather Service has something called a "Dense Fog Advisory," which is about the stupidest alert I can think of to tie up our electronic communications with!")

    --
    -Jack

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scott Lurndal@21:1/5 to Quadibloc on Tue Apr 4 13:48:33 2023
    Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> writes:
    On Monday, April 3, 2023 at 12:44:58=E2=80=AFPM UTC-6, Scott Lurndal wrote:

    A 60 foot diameter rock recently entered the atmosphere (10kt) and=20
    the resulting explosion was equivalent to 400-500 kilotons TNT, which is = >substantially=20
    larger than either Hiroshima or Nagasaki.

    Given all these recent news headlines of the form: NASA *warns humanity* th= >at giant
    space rock is headed in Earth's direction, even though they're absolutely c= >ertain it
    closer to the Earth than three times the Moon's distance...

    As opposed to merely advising such members of humanity who might have an in= >terest
    in such things - usually, a *warning* relates to something that actually po= >ses a *threat*...

    I'm surprised I haven't heard of this.

    I'm surprised you don't remember hearing about it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelyabinsk_meteor

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From James Nicoll@21:1/5 to jack.bohn64@gmail.com on Tue Apr 4 14:24:33 2023
    In article <1d96eee4-5519-4e1b-b59a-25c7e2cf6295n@googlegroups.com>,
    Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:
    Quadibloc wrote:
    On Monday, April 3, 2023 at 12:44:58 PM UTC-6, Scott Lurndal wrote:

    A 60 foot diameter rock recently entered the atmosphere (10kt) and
    the resulting explosion was equivalent to 400-500 kilotons
    TNT, which is substantially
    larger than either Hiroshima or Nagasaki.

    Given all these recent news headlines of the form: NASA *warns
    humanity* that giant
    space rock is headed in Earth's direction, even though they're
    absolutely certain it
    closer to the Earth than three times the Moon's distance...

    As opposed to merely advising such members of humanity who
    might have an interest
    in such things - usually, a *warning* relates to something that
    actually poses a *threat*...

    This is the time of year when we are reminded that a "Tornado
    Watch" is an alert to watch for tornadoes; the weather conditions
    have become favorable to tornado formation.
    The "Tornado Warning" is warning of an actual sighting by eye or
    radar of a tornado. So using the correct word is important.

    Can citizen-astronomers watch these rocks a million or more miles
    out? They could pretend the press release is a notification for
    folks with large reflectors or long exposure setups, or pocket
    areciboes rather than being the chicken little boy who cried
    wolf.

    (I believe I've mentioned my brother has appointed me tech
    support for the devices he gives our mom. I've had to rehearse
    her in the word "notifications," as when her Echo Dot is
    non-responsive, with lights chasing themselves around the rim,
    she has to ask it, "what are my notifications?" to free it up.
    This is how I found out the National Weather Service has
    something called a "Dense Fog Advisory," which is about the
    stupidest alert I can think of to tie up our electronic
    communications with!")

    Dense fog can facilitate mass collision events, such as the
    2007 one involving 108 passenger vehicles and 18 big-rig trucks
    on northbound State Route 99 between Fowler and Fresno.
    --
    My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
    My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
    My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
    My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Quadibloc@21:1/5 to Scott Lurndal on Tue Apr 4 08:20:44 2023
    On Tuesday, April 4, 2023 at 7:48:37 AM UTC-6, Scott Lurndal wrote:

    I'm surprised you don't remember hearing about it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelyabinsk_meteor

    My problem was that I thought "recent" referred to the last year
    or two. And, while I did remember the devastation the Chelyabinsk
    meteor caused - several people injured by broken windows - I had
    no idea that the diameter of the object involved was in the neighborhood
    of 20 metres or 60 feet.

    John Savard

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dimensional Traveler@21:1/5 to James Nicoll on Tue Apr 4 09:01:32 2023
    On 4/4/2023 7:24 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
    In article <1d96eee4-5519-4e1b-b59a-25c7e2cf6295n@googlegroups.com>,
    Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:
    Quadibloc wrote:
    On Monday, April 3, 2023 at 12:44:58 PM UTC-6, Scott Lurndal wrote:

    A 60 foot diameter rock recently entered the atmosphere (10kt) and
    the resulting explosion was equivalent to 400-500 kilotons
    TNT, which is substantially
    larger than either Hiroshima or Nagasaki.

    Given all these recent news headlines of the form: NASA *warns
    humanity* that giant
    space rock is headed in Earth's direction, even though they're
    absolutely certain it
    closer to the Earth than three times the Moon's distance...

    As opposed to merely advising such members of humanity who
    might have an interest
    in such things - usually, a *warning* relates to something that
    actually poses a *threat*...

    This is the time of year when we are reminded that a "Tornado
    Watch" is an alert to watch for tornadoes; the weather conditions
    have become favorable to tornado formation.
    The "Tornado Warning" is warning of an actual sighting by eye or
    radar of a tornado. So using the correct word is important.

    Can citizen-astronomers watch these rocks a million or more miles
    out? They could pretend the press release is a notification for
    folks with large reflectors or long exposure setups, or pocket
    areciboes rather than being the chicken little boy who cried
    wolf.

    (I believe I've mentioned my brother has appointed me tech
    support for the devices he gives our mom. I've had to rehearse
    her in the word "notifications," as when her Echo Dot is
    non-responsive, with lights chasing themselves around the rim,
    she has to ask it, "what are my notifications?" to free it up.
    This is how I found out the National Weather Service has
    something called a "Dense Fog Advisory," which is about the
    stupidest alert I can think of to tie up our electronic
    communications with!")

    Dense fog can facilitate mass collision events, such as the
    2007 one involving 108 passenger vehicles and 18 big-rig trucks
    on northbound State Route 99 between Fowler and Fresno.

    Not to mention how many more pedestrians get mowed down because drivers
    can't see to the front end of their hoods.... I had to drive on
    Interstate 5 in the California Central Valley once during a heavy fog.
    I was in the far right lane, emergency blinkers on, doing maybe 30 miles
    an hour because I could see more than 10 or 20 feet in front of me and
    had multiple tractor-trailer rigs go past me doing at least 60.


    --
    I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
    dirty old man.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scott Lurndal@21:1/5 to Dimensional Traveler on Tue Apr 4 16:39:45 2023
    Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> writes:
    On 4/4/2023 7:24 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
    In article <1d96eee4-5519-4e1b-b59a-25c7e2cf6295n@googlegroups.com>,
    Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:
    Quadibloc wrote:
    On Monday, April 3, 2023 at 12:44:58 PM UTC-6, Scott Lurndal wrote:

    A 60 foot diameter rock recently entered the atmosphere (10kt) and
    the resulting explosion was equivalent to 400-500 kilotons
    TNT, which is substantially
    larger than either Hiroshima or Nagasaki.

    Given all these recent news headlines of the form: NASA *warns
    humanity* that giant
    space rock is headed in Earth's direction, even though they're
    absolutely certain it
    closer to the Earth than three times the Moon's distance...

    As opposed to merely advising such members of humanity who
    might have an interest
    in such things - usually, a *warning* relates to something that
    actually poses a *threat*...

    This is the time of year when we are reminded that a "Tornado
    Watch" is an alert to watch for tornadoes; the weather conditions
    have become favorable to tornado formation.
    The "Tornado Warning" is warning of an actual sighting by eye or
    radar of a tornado. So using the correct word is important.

    Can citizen-astronomers watch these rocks a million or more miles
    out? They could pretend the press release is a notification for
    folks with large reflectors or long exposure setups, or pocket
    areciboes rather than being the chicken little boy who cried
    wolf.

    (I believe I've mentioned my brother has appointed me tech
    support for the devices he gives our mom. I've had to rehearse
    her in the word "notifications," as when her Echo Dot is
    non-responsive, with lights chasing themselves around the rim,
    she has to ask it, "what are my notifications?" to free it up.
    This is how I found out the National Weather Service has
    something called a "Dense Fog Advisory," which is about the
    stupidest alert I can think of to tie up our electronic
    communications with!")

    Dense fog can facilitate mass collision events, such as the
    2007 one involving 108 passenger vehicles and 18 big-rig trucks
    on northbound State Route 99 between Fowler and Fresno.

    Not to mention how many more pedestrians get mowed down because drivers
    can't see to the front end of their hoods.... I had to drive on
    Interstate 5 in the California Central Valley once during a heavy fog.
    I was in the far right lane, emergency blinkers on, doing maybe 30 miles
    an hour because I could see more than 10 or 20 feet in front of me and
    had multiple tractor-trailer rigs go past me doing at least 60.

    And responding to

    This is how I found out the National Weather Service has
    something called a "Dense Fog Advisory," which is about the
    stupidest alert I can think of to tie up our electronic
    communications with!")

    A driver may encounter the dense fog very suddenly, it's clear
    and then it's not. That's what the warnings are for, to give
    the drivers advance notice to keep alert when driving in certain
    areas (and yes, the central valley and san joaquin valleys are
    both noted for sudden onset dense fog). Particularly at night.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From petertrei@gmail.com@21:1/5 to Dimensional Traveler on Tue Apr 4 10:08:45 2023
    On Tuesday, April 4, 2023 at 12:01:35 PM UTC-4, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
    On 4/4/2023 7:24 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
    In article <1d96eee4-5519-4e1b...@googlegroups.com>,
    Jack Bohn <jack....@gmail.com> wrote:
    Quadibloc wrote:
    On Monday, April 3, 2023 at 12:44:58 PM UTC-6, Scott Lurndal wrote: >>>
    A 60 foot diameter rock recently entered the atmosphere (10kt) and
    the resulting explosion was equivalent to 400-500 kilotons
    TNT, which is substantially
    larger than either Hiroshima or Nagasaki.

    Given all these recent news headlines of the form: NASA *warns
    humanity* that giant
    space rock is headed in Earth's direction, even though they're
    absolutely certain it
    closer to the Earth than three times the Moon's distance...

    As opposed to merely advising such members of humanity who
    might have an interest
    in such things - usually, a *warning* relates to something that
    actually poses a *threat*...

    This is the time of year when we are reminded that a "Tornado
    Watch" is an alert to watch for tornadoes; the weather conditions
    have become favorable to tornado formation.
    The "Tornado Warning" is warning of an actual sighting by eye or
    radar of a tornado. So using the correct word is important.

    Can citizen-astronomers watch these rocks a million or more miles
    out? They could pretend the press release is a notification for
    folks with large reflectors or long exposure setups, or pocket
    areciboes rather than being the chicken little boy who cried
    wolf.

    (I believe I've mentioned my brother has appointed me tech
    support for the devices he gives our mom. I've had to rehearse
    her in the word "notifications," as when her Echo Dot is
    non-responsive, with lights chasing themselves around the rim,
    she has to ask it, "what are my notifications?" to free it up.
    This is how I found out the National Weather Service has
    something called a "Dense Fog Advisory," which is about the
    stupidest alert I can think of to tie up our electronic
    communications with!")

    Dense fog can facilitate mass collision events, such as the
    2007 one involving 108 passenger vehicles and 18 big-rig trucks
    on northbound State Route 99 between Fowler and Fresno.
    Not to mention how many more pedestrians get mowed down because drivers can't see to the front end of their hoods.... I had to drive on
    Interstate 5 in the California Central Valley once during a heavy fog.
    I was in the far right lane, emergency blinkers on, doing maybe 30 miles
    an hour because I could see more than 10 or 20 feet in front of me and
    had multiple tractor-trailer rigs go past me doing at least 60.

    Thick fogs also occur in Belgium, where I used to live. The highway system there has streetlights along its entire length, which can be strikingly seen in
    night time satellite images, and cars are required to have a super-bright rear mounted red light to turn on in fog, to reduce the chances of being rear-ended.

    pt

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Robert Carnegie@21:1/5 to Scott Lurndal on Tue Apr 4 12:47:06 2023
    On Tuesday, 4 April 2023 at 17:39:50 UTC+1, Scott Lurndal wrote:
    Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> writes:
    On 4/4/2023 7:24 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
    In article <1d96eee4-5519-4e1b...@googlegroups.com>,
    Jack Bohn <jack....@gmail.com> wrote:
    This is how I found out the National Weather Service has
    something called a "Dense Fog Advisory," which is about the
    stupidest alert I can think of to tie up our electronic
    communications with!")

    A driver may encounter the dense fog very suddenly, it's clear
    and then it's not. That's what the warnings are for, to give
    the drivers advance notice to keep alert when driving in certain
    areas (and yes, the central valley and san joaquin valleys are
    both noted for sudden onset dense fog). Particularly at night.

    My understanding is that mostly it's not fog arising suddenly
    in one location, but fog resting in one location - large or
    small - that you happen to drive into at speed from a
    relatively fogless location.

    On the other hand... there may be no fog when you set out
    on a journey, but soon after, there is fog.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dorothy J Heydt@21:1/5 to dtravel@sonic.net on Tue Apr 4 20:17:46 2023
    In article <u0hhkq$3fomk$1@dont-email.me>,
    Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
    Not to mention how many more pedestrians get mowed down because drivers
    can't see to the front end of their hoods.... I had to drive on
    Interstate 5 in the California Central Valley once during a heavy fog.
    I was in the far right lane, emergency blinkers on, doing maybe 30 miles
    an hour because I could see more than 10 or 20 feet in front of me and
    had multiple tractor-trailer rigs go past me doing at least 60.

    (Hal Heydt)
    One technique--if your nerves can take it--is to follow someone
    else, regardless of how fast they're gooing. Just stay far
    enough back that you *just* have solid visibility on their tail
    lights. If said lights get suddenly brighter, move the shoulder
    and hit the brakes.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dorothy J Heydt@21:1/5 to jack.bohn64@gmail.com on Tue Apr 4 20:14:55 2023
    In article <1d96eee4-5519-4e1b-b59a-25c7e2cf6295n@googlegroups.com>,
    Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:
    (I believe I've mentioned my brother has appointed me tech support for
    the devices he gives our mom. I've had to rehearse her in the word >"notifications," as when her Echo Dot is non-responsive, with lights
    chasing themselves around the rim, she has to ask it, "what are my >notifications?" to free it up. This is how I found out the National
    Weather Service has something called a "Dense Fog Advisory," which is
    about the stupidest alert I can think of to tie up our electronic >communications with!")

    (Hal Heydt)
    You've never driven in the California Central Valley in a Tule
    Fog. The conditions tend to produce chain reaction accidents
    with upwards of 100 vehcles involved.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dimensional Traveler@21:1/5 to Dorothy J Heydt on Tue Apr 4 13:40:18 2023
    On 4/4/2023 1:17 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
    In article <u0hhkq$3fomk$1@dont-email.me>,
    Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
    Not to mention how many more pedestrians get mowed down because drivers
    can't see to the front end of their hoods.... I had to drive on
    Interstate 5 in the California Central Valley once during a heavy fog.
    I was in the far right lane, emergency blinkers on, doing maybe 30 miles
    an hour because I could see more than 10 or 20 feet in front of me and
    had multiple tractor-trailer rigs go past me doing at least 60.

    (Hal Heydt)
    One technique--if your nerves can take it--is to follow someone
    else, regardless of how fast they're gooing. Just stay far
    enough back that you *just* have solid visibility on their tail
    lights. If said lights get suddenly brighter, move the shoulder
    and hit the brakes.

    I only had about another 10 miles to go to the off-ramp to the county
    Sheriff's dispatch center that was my destination. ;)

    --
    I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
    dirty old man.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scott Lurndal@21:1/5 to Dorothy J Heydt on Tue Apr 4 21:32:44 2023
    djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
    In article <u0hhkq$3fomk$1@dont-email.me>,
    Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
    Not to mention how many more pedestrians get mowed down because drivers >>can't see to the front end of their hoods.... I had to drive on
    Interstate 5 in the California Central Valley once during a heavy fog.
    I was in the far right lane, emergency blinkers on, doing maybe 30 miles
    an hour because I could see more than 10 or 20 feet in front of me and
    had multiple tractor-trailer rigs go past me doing at least 60.

    (Hal Heydt)
    One technique--if your nerves can take it--is to follow someone
    else, regardless of how fast they're gooing. Just stay far
    enough back that you *just* have solid visibility on their tail
    lights. If said lights get suddenly brighter, move the shoulder
    and hit the brakes.

    I once drove (in the 1980s) from Los Angeles to Las Vegas after
    dark, on a freshly paved stretch of unstriped blacktop, in a heavy
    downpour - followed the tail lights of the car ahead and
    hoped they stayed on the highway.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jay E. Morris@21:1/5 to Dimensional Traveler on Tue Apr 4 16:41:42 2023
    On 4/4/2023 11:01 AM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
    On 4/4/2023 7:24 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
    In article <1d96eee4-5519-4e1b-b59a-25c7e2cf6295n@googlegroups.com>,
    Jack Bohn  <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:
    Quadibloc wrote:
    On Monday, April 3, 2023 at 12:44:58 PM UTC-6, Scott Lurndal wrote:

    A 60 foot diameter rock recently entered the atmosphere (10kt) and
    the resulting explosion was equivalent to 400-500 kilotons
    TNT, which is substantially
    larger than either Hiroshima or Nagasaki.

    Given all these recent news headlines of the form: NASA *warns
    humanity* that giant
    space rock is headed in Earth's direction, even though they're
    absolutely certain it
    closer to the Earth than three times the Moon's distance...

    As opposed to merely advising such members of humanity who
    might have an interest
    in such things - usually, a *warning* relates to something that
    actually poses a *threat*...

    This is the time of year when we are reminded that a "Tornado
    Watch" is an alert to watch for tornadoes; the weather conditions
    have become favorable to tornado formation.
    The "Tornado Warning" is warning of an actual sighting by eye or
    radar of a tornado.  So using the correct word is important.

    Can citizen-astronomers watch these rocks a million or more miles
    out?  They could pretend the press release is a notification for
    folks with large reflectors or long exposure setups, or pocket
    areciboes rather than being the chicken little boy who cried
    wolf.

    (I believe I've mentioned my brother has appointed me tech
    support for the devices he gives our mom.  I've had to rehearse
    her in the word "notifications," as when her Echo Dot is
    non-responsive, with lights chasing themselves around the rim,
    she has to ask it, "what are my notifications?" to free it up.
    This is how I found out the National Weather Service has
    something called a "Dense Fog Advisory," which is about the
    stupidest alert I can think of to tie up our electronic
    communications with!")

    Dense fog can facilitate mass collision events, such as the
    2007 one involving 108 passenger vehicles and 18 big-rig trucks
    on northbound State Route 99 between Fowler and Fresno.

    Not to mention how many more pedestrians get mowed down because drivers
    can't see to the front end of their hoods....  I had to drive on
    Interstate 5 in the California Central Valley once during a heavy fog. I
    was in the far right lane, emergency blinkers on, doing maybe 30 miles
    an hour because I could see more than 10 or 20 feet in front of me and
    had multiple tractor-trailer rigs go past me doing at least 60.



    Once had a trucker tell me that in some cases the fog can be very dense
    but not very high. He sits high enough up that he's not catching much
    fog and can see the lights of the other vehicles.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jaimie Vandenbergh@21:1/5 to All on Tue Apr 4 21:45:04 2023
    On 4 Apr 2023 at 14:41:46 BST, "Jack Bohn" <jack.bohn64@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    (I believe I've mentioned my brother has appointed me tech support for the devices he gives our mom. I've had to rehearse her in the word "notifications," as when her Echo Dot is non-responsive, with lights chasing themselves around the rim, she has
    to ask it, "what are my notifications?" to free it up. This is how I found out the National Weather Service has something called a "Dense Fog Advisory," which is about the stupidest alert I can think of to tie up our electronic communications with!")

    We got Yellow Snow Warnings this winter. Naturally it meant "Snow
    warning, grade yellow" on a scale of no-warning/yellow/red. But I liked
    the phrasing and hope it was intentional.

    Cheers - Jaimie
    --
    The Daily Mail should be forced to print the words
    'The Paper That Supported Hitler' on its masthead,
    just so that there is something that's true on the
    front page every day. -- Mark Thomas

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dimensional Traveler@21:1/5 to Scott Lurndal on Tue Apr 4 16:24:02 2023
    On 4/4/2023 2:32 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
    djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
    In article <u0hhkq$3fomk$1@dont-email.me>,
    Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
    Not to mention how many more pedestrians get mowed down because drivers
    can't see to the front end of their hoods.... I had to drive on
    Interstate 5 in the California Central Valley once during a heavy fog.
    I was in the far right lane, emergency blinkers on, doing maybe 30 miles >>> an hour because I could see more than 10 or 20 feet in front of me and
    had multiple tractor-trailer rigs go past me doing at least 60.

    (Hal Heydt)
    One technique--if your nerves can take it--is to follow someone
    else, regardless of how fast they're gooing. Just stay far
    enough back that you *just* have solid visibility on their tail
    lights. If said lights get suddenly brighter, move the shoulder
    and hit the brakes.

    I once drove (in the 1980s) from Los Angeles to Las Vegas after
    dark, on a freshly paved stretch of unstriped blacktop, in a heavy
    downpour - followed the tail lights of the car ahead and
    hoped they stayed on the highway.

    Reminded of an old joke about someone doing that on city streets. When
    they ran into the rear of the leading vehicle they wanted to know why
    the lead driver hadn't used his brakes. "I was pulling into my driveway."

    --
    I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
    dirty old man.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jack Bohn@21:1/5 to Dorothy J Heydt on Wed Apr 5 05:09:08 2023
    Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

    In article <1d96eee4-5519-4e1b...@googlegroups.com>,
    Jack Bohn <jack....@gmail.com> wrote:
    (I believe I've mentioned my brother has appointed me tech support for
    the devices he gives our mom. I've had to rehearse her in the word >"notifications," as when her Echo Dot is non-responsive, with lights >chasing themselves around the rim, she has to ask it, "what are my >notifications?" to free it up. This is how I found out the National
    Weather Service has something called a "Dense Fog Advisory," which is
    about the stupidest alert I can think of to tie up our electronic >communications with!")

    (Hal Heydt)
    You've never driven in the California Central Valley in a Tule
    Fog. The conditions tend to produce chain reaction accidents
    with upwards of 100 vehcles involved.

    Flatlander here. Our fog could be anywhere, and, if I'm in the middle of it, as far as I can tell, it's everywhere.
    With a certain local that you can report on the existence or not of a hazard I can see some sense -- we have caution signs that say "Bridge freezes before road surface" that we leave up year-round.
    It just seems strange to me to warn that there may be places where you can't see, the indication of it will be that you can't see.

    --
    -Jack

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rkshullat@rosettacondot.com@21:1/5 to Jack Bohn on Wed Apr 5 13:17:37 2023
    Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:
    Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

    In article <1d96eee4-5519-4e1b...@googlegroups.com>,
    Jack Bohn <jack....@gmail.com> wrote:
    (I believe I've mentioned my brother has appointed me tech support for
    the devices he gives our mom. I've had to rehearse her in the word
    "notifications," as when her Echo Dot is non-responsive, with lights
    chasing themselves around the rim, she has to ask it, "what are my
    notifications?" to free it up. This is how I found out the National
    Weather Service has something called a "Dense Fog Advisory," which is
    about the stupidest alert I can think of to tie up our electronic
    communications with!")

    (Hal Heydt)
    You've never driven in the California Central Valley in a Tule
    Fog. The conditions tend to produce chain reaction accidents
    with upwards of 100 vehcles involved.

    Flatlander here. Our fog could be anywhere, and, if I'm in the middle of it, as far as I can tell, it's everywhere.
    With a certain local that you can report on the existence or not of a hazard I can see some sense -- we have caution signs that say "Bridge freezes before road surface" that we leave up year-round.
    It just seems strange to me to warn that there may be places where you can't see, the indication of it will be that you can't see.

    Most advisories are meant to give advance notice so that you can do something different...stay home, leave early, take a different route, etc.
    For fog, if it normally takes me 30 minutes to get to work I might leave 15 minutes early. For apocalyptic snowfall (2 or more inches in the Dallas area) or ice I'd stay home.

    Robert
    --
    Robert K. Shull Email: rkshull at rosettacon dot com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Robert Carnegie@21:1/5 to Jack Bohn on Wed Apr 5 13:47:19 2023
    On Wednesday, 5 April 2023 at 13:09:18 UTC+1, Jack Bohn wrote:
    Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

    In article <1d96eee4-5519-4e1b...@googlegroups.com>,
    Jack Bohn <jack....@gmail.com> wrote:
    (I believe I've mentioned my brother has appointed me tech support for >the devices he gives our mom. I've had to rehearse her in the word >"notifications," as when her Echo Dot is non-responsive, with lights >chasing themselves around the rim, she has to ask it, "what are my >notifications?" to free it up. This is how I found out the National >Weather Service has something called a "Dense Fog Advisory," which is >about the stupidest alert I can think of to tie up our electronic >communications with!")

    (Hal Heydt)
    You've never driven in the California Central Valley in a Tule
    Fog. The conditions tend to produce chain reaction accidents
    with upwards of 100 vehcles involved.
    Flatlander here. Our fog could be anywhere, and, if I'm in the middle of it, as far as I can tell, it's everywhere.
    With a certain local that you can report on the existence or not of a hazard I can see some sense -- we have caution signs that say "Bridge freezes before road surface" that we leave up year-round.
    It just seems strange to me to warn that there may be places where you can't see, the indication of it will be that you can't see.

    You can see, but not so far. So, drive slower.
    Stop before you hit something is a normal part
    of driving. In fog you get less time for it.

    If you can't see the road - that is way too much fog.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chris Buckley@21:1/5 to Robert Carnegie on Thu Apr 6 02:49:06 2023
    On 2023-04-05, Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
    On Wednesday, 5 April 2023 at 13:09:18 UTC+1, Jack Bohn wrote:
    Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

    In article <1d96eee4-5519-4e1b...@googlegroups.com>,
    Jack Bohn <jack....@gmail.com> wrote:
    (I believe I've mentioned my brother has appointed me tech support for
    the devices he gives our mom. I've had to rehearse her in the word
    "notifications," as when her Echo Dot is non-responsive, with lights
    chasing themselves around the rim, she has to ask it, "what are my
    notifications?" to free it up. This is how I found out the National
    Weather Service has something called a "Dense Fog Advisory," which is
    about the stupidest alert I can think of to tie up our electronic
    communications with!")

    (Hal Heydt)
    You've never driven in the California Central Valley in a Tule
    Fog. The conditions tend to produce chain reaction accidents
    with upwards of 100 vehcles involved.
    Flatlander here. Our fog could be anywhere, and, if I'm in the middle of it, as far as I can tell, it's everywhere.
    With a certain local that you can report on the existence or not of a hazard I can see some sense -- we have caution signs that say "Bridge freezes before road surface" that we leave up year-round.
    It just seems strange to me to warn that there may be places where you can't see, the indication of it will be that you can't see.

    You can see, but not so far. So, drive slower.
    Stop before you hit something is a normal part
    of driving. In fog you get less time for it.

    If you can't see the road - that is way too much fog.

    But what do you do when it's perfectly clear for you going 70 mph, and
    then you ascend a bit further up the hill and can no longer see the road?
    If you stop, you'll get rear-ended. You drive slowly and hope the cars
    behind and ahead of you are going about the same speed.

    This is a not uncommon occurrence on I-99 when going through the
    mountains of northern Pennsylvania. There are permanent signs
    warning of fog, and they try to put portable electronic signs for the
    areas when the dense fog patches come out. But it's an
    adventure when there are non-locals around!

    Chris

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Quadibloc@21:1/5 to James Nicoll on Fri Apr 7 15:12:53 2023
    On Monday, April 3, 2023 at 8:11:49 AM UTC-6, James Nicoll wrote:
    Five Ways to Justify Huge Rocks Smashing Into Earth (in Spite of
    Science)

    How to salvage a beloved stock science fiction plot from the cruel
    ravages of applied science.

    I was very surprised to hear that we are now so scientifically advanced that
    we don't have to worry about being hit by asteroids any more. I thought that the engineering discipline of diverting incoming asteroids was still in its infancy, and we could only divert an asteroid heading for Earth if we were really lucky in sighting it long before the actual impact, so that the tiny changes
    we are able to make in an asteroid's orbit would suffice.

    And lots of other space disasters can happen that are beyond our power.

    Remember the Carrington event? I've recently heard that something far
    worse, a Miyaki event, comes from the depths of space rather than our
    Sun, which we can do nothing to avoid. And there was the possibility of Betelgeuse going nova, although that danger appears to have been
    downgraded.

    And a post here already referenced the recent news item of an ultramassive black hole, turning the interstellar medium into new stars behind it, is sweeping
    through distant space. Imagine if such a thing were to have a close encounter with our Solar System - the Sun and its planets would, at the very least, be flung out in all directions separately away from each other.

    We are still very weak and fragile creatures, who could easily be doomed
    by any of hundreds of possible chance interactions involving the great
    energies and masses that are all about us. Our Milky Way is on a collision course with the Andromeda Galaxy, so our days are numbered, even if _that_ number is a rather large one.

    John Savard

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Horny Goat@21:1/5 to All on Sat Apr 8 16:03:57 2023
    On Tue, 04 Apr 2023 21:32:44 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
    wrote:

    I once drove (in the 1980s) from Los Angeles to Las Vegas after
    dark, on a freshly paved stretch of unstriped blacktop, in a heavy
    downpour - followed the tail lights of the car ahead and
    hoped they stayed on the highway.

    Back in the late 1960s my father did that through the Siskiyou
    mountains in northern California snowstorm where visibility was
    "somewhat limited"

    In the end we got hot drinks at a truck stop and I don't recall what
    happened from there.

    The kicker was that despite his studded snow tires the CA highway
    patrol was insisting on chains so he got one chain on (using a
    coathanger to connect the two ends of the chains since the studded
    tires had a larger circumference than the standard snow tires) and
    after he got the first one told my mother he wasn't doing the other
    one and mercifully got waved through by the patrolman.....

    The things you remember from childhood!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Horny Goat@21:1/5 to dtravel@sonic.net on Sat Apr 8 16:05:22 2023
    On Tue, 4 Apr 2023 16:24:02 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
    <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

    Reminded of an old joke about someone doing that on city streets. When
    they ran into the rear of the leading vehicle they wanted to know why
    the lead driver hadn't used his brakes. "I was pulling into my driveway."

    I've heard the same joke about a driver in a London fog - back when I
    was learning to drive.

    Some nasty relative figured it would reassure me before my road test!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Horny Goat@21:1/5 to jaimie@usually.sessile.org on Sat Apr 8 16:07:01 2023
    On 4 Apr 2023 21:45:04 GMT, Jaimie Vandenbergh
    <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:

    On 4 Apr 2023 at 14:41:46 BST, "Jack Bohn" <jack.bohn64@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    (I believe I've mentioned my brother has appointed me tech support for the devices he gives our mom. I've had to rehearse her in the word "notifications," as when her Echo Dot is non-responsive, with lights chasing themselves around the rim, she has
    to ask it, "what are my notifications?" to free it up. This is how I found out the National Weather Service has something called a "Dense Fog Advisory," which is about the stupidest alert I can think of to tie up our electronic communications with!")

    We got Yellow Snow Warnings this winter. Naturally it meant "Snow
    warning, grade yellow" on a scale of no-warning/yellow/red. But I liked
    the phrasing and hope it was intentional.

    Picture?

    We had about 3' this winter and the neighbors dutifully shovelled
    their driveways and sidewalks - and our dog did his best to make that
    sign you saw actually true.

    We only got rid of the last of our snow about 10 days ago...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Johnny1A@21:1/5 to Jack Bohn on Sun Apr 9 11:00:45 2023
    On Monday, April 3, 2023 at 3:01:54 PM UTC-5, Jack Bohn wrote:
    Johnny1A wrote:

    I've always found the 'asteroid impactor as weapon' scenario improbable, not because it couldn't be done, but because it doesn't do anything that a nuke doesn't do more easily and cheaply, plus it takes longer.
    Well, unless you already have a mass driver on the Moon you could use.

    --
    -Jack

    Yeah, you _can_ weaponize a mass driver. But it's trickier than Heinlein presented it to be. (Also, RAH deliberately or by mistake overestimated how much damage the chunks he uses in the famous story would do.)

    The advantage of using a mass driver is a limitless supply of ammo, and reasonably prompt strike time. It's also, _depending on the technology_, easier to deflect one medium-sized asteroid than it is to stop dozens of smaller chunks from a mass driver
    installation. For ex, if the enemy has a single 1000 foot rock coming at you, if you knock it just slightly off course you're fine. It would take much more time and delta-V to deflect several dozen small chunks on slightly different paths. OTOH, if
    you've got a big high power laser available and it has good enough focus, you could probably vaporize or deflect the oncoming rocks with it, because they'll still time to arrive and you can lase the targets as fast as you can redirect your beam.

    (Even if it would take too long to entirely vaporize each rock, such a laser might still knock them safely off-course by inducing outgassing and the like.)

    A mass driver would be a weapon potentially useful against fixed targets, but anything mobile could probably get out of the target zone easily in the time it would take for the projectile to arrive. Even foot traffic could probably do it, if they had
    warning at launch (which is likely given radar).

    Also, a weaponized mass driver is itself very vulnerable. Break the track anywhere along the length and it's out of action. A successful use of a Lunar mass driver as a weapon probably requires either sufficient spae control that nobody can get close
    enough to hit it, or burying the whole thing underground or something (except for the launch opening, of course).

    It's doable, yes. It might someday be done. But for it to actually _make sense_ requires specific conditions.

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