• [O'Reilly Factor] Undecided Voters React to the Debate

    From Ubiquitous@21:1/5 to All on Wed Sep 28 05:00:02 2016
    XPost: alt.politics.usa, alt.tv.oreilly-factor, rec.arts.tv
    XPost: alt.politics.elections

    Pollster Frank Luntz, who gathered undecided voters to watch the
    debate, entered the No Spin Zone with his findings. "Hillary Clinton's
    worst moment," he said, "was when she said let's get the fact-checkers involved. They thought that was an ad hominem attack. Donald Trump's
    worst moments came when he was talking over Lester Holt. The cardinal
    rule of debates is to not talk over the moderator, but Trump did it
    three times and the participants found it rude." Luntz turned to each candidate's most sparkling moment. "Hillary Clinton's best moment was
    when she talked about working together with Muslim Americans. Donald
    Trump's high point came when he talked about applying his business
    principles to Washington." Luntz reported that his group was evenly
    split as to who won the debate and few votes were changed.

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  • From FPP@21:1/5 to Ubiquitous on Wed Sep 28 06:32:34 2016
    XPost: alt.politics.usa, alt.tv.oreilly-factor, rec.arts.tv
    XPost: alt.politics.elections

    On 2016-09-28 10:00:02 +0000, Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net> said:

    Pollster Frank Luntz, who gathered undecided voters to watch the
    debate, entered the No Spin Zone with his findings. "Hillary Clinton's
    worst moment," he said, "was when she said let's get the fact-checkers involved. They thought that was an ad hominem attack. Donald Trump's
    worst moments came when he was talking over Lester Holt. The cardinal
    rule of debates is to not talk over the moderator, but Trump did it
    three times and the participants found it rude." Luntz turned to each candidate's most sparkling moment. "Hillary Clinton's best moment was
    when she talked about working together with Muslim Americans. Donald
    Trump's high point came when he talked about applying his business
    principles to Washington." Luntz reported that his group was evenly
    split as to who won the debate and few votes were changed.

    Amazing. You buried the conclusions. Why is that?
    Maybe because it wasn't flattering to Hair Furor, maybe?

    So, here's the rest of the story:

    After the debate, 16 viewers voted that Clinton had won, including the
    man who had the beginning of the night had identified himself as the
    most pro-Trump in the room. (ÒHe definitely didnŐt help himself,Ó he
    said of Trump afterwards.) Only six people said Trump had won.

    http://time.com/4509038/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-debate-voter-focus-group/

    Many were frustrated at TrumpŐs long-winded answers, which to them
    seemed to be full of sound and fury but signifying nothing, to borrow a phrase. ÒHe dug his own grave by just talking, and talking, and
    talking,Ó one viewer said.

    ÒIf he was a student in my middle school classroom, I would have told
    him to finish answering the question you were being asked, and then
    shut your mouth,Ó a woman said.
    --
    Oxymorons: Tight slacks. Plastic glasses. Original Copy. Old news.
    Clearly misunderstood. Almost exactly. Act Natural. Microsoft Works.
    Fox News.

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  • From Ubiquitous@21:1/5 to fredp151@gmail.com on Wed Sep 28 06:33:00 2016
    XPost: alt.politics.usa, alt.tv.oreilly-factor, rec.arts.tv
    XPost: alt.politics.elections

    In article <nsg67n$t5n$1@dont-email.me>, fredp151@gmail.com wrote:
    On 2016-09-28 10:00:02 +0000, Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net> said:

    Pollster Frank Luntz, who gathered undecided voters to watch the
    debate, entered the No Spin Zone with his findings. "Hillary Clinton's
    worst moment," he said, "was when she said let's get the fact-checkers
    involved. They thought that was an ad hominem attack. Donald Trump's
    worst moments came when he was talking over Lester Holt. The cardinal
    rule of debates is to not talk over the moderator, but Trump did it
    three times and the participants found it rude." Luntz turned to each
    candidate's most sparkling moment. "Hillary Clinton's best moment was
    when she talked about working together with Muslim Americans. Donald
    Trump's high point came when he talked about applying his business
    principles to Washington." Luntz reported that his group was evenly
    split as to who won the debate and few votes were changed.

    Amazing. You buried the conclusions. Why is that?

    Strawman noted.

    Maybe because it wasn't flattering to Hair Furor, maybe?

    Epithet noted.
    Goodwin's law violation noted.

    Get back to us when you have a real argument to make.

    --
    Hillary's portion of the debate was sponsored by:
    Luden's
    Mom & Pop Servers
    BleachBit
    Rent-a-Stool
    The delete button
    The 5th Amendment

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  • From FPP@21:1/5 to Ubiquitous on Wed Sep 28 18:35:55 2016
    XPost: alt.politics.usa, alt.tv.oreilly-factor, rec.arts.tv
    XPost: alt.politics.elections

    On 2016-09-28 06:33:00 -0400, Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net> said:

    In article <nsg67n$t5n$1@dont-email.me>, fredp151@gmail.com wrote:
    On 2016-09-28 10:00:02 +0000, Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net> said:

    Pollster Frank Luntz, who gathered undecided voters to watch the
    debate, entered the No Spin Zone with his findings. "Hillary Clinton's
    worst moment," he said, "was when she said let's get the fact-checkers
    involved. They thought that was an ad hominem attack. Donald Trump's
    worst moments came when he was talking over Lester Holt. The cardinal
    rule of debates is to not talk over the moderator, but Trump did it
    three times and the participants found it rude." Luntz turned to each
    candidate's most sparkling moment. "Hillary Clinton's best moment was
    when she talked about working together with Muslim Americans. Donald
    Trump's high point came when he talked about applying his business
    principles to Washington." Luntz reported that his group was evenly
    split as to who won the debate and few votes were changed.

    Amazing. You buried the conclusions. Why is that?

    Strawman noted.

    Maybe because it wasn't flattering to Hair Furor, maybe?

    Epithet noted.
    Goodwin's law violation noted.

    Get back to us when you have a real argument to make.

    Hey, if the sheet fits, wear it.
    --
    I have to admit, in the First Presidential Debate, Hillary Clinton did
    "women's work".
    She absolutely mopped the floor with Trump...

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  • From FPP@21:1/5 to Ubiquitous on Wed Sep 28 22:11:07 2016
    XPost: alt.politics.elections, alt.tv.oreilly-factor, rec.arts.tv
    XPost: alt.politics.usa

    On 2016-09-28 06:33:00 -0400, Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net> said:

    Goodwin's law violation noted.

    Yeah... let's examine why that's NOT applicable here. I'm a student of
    this period, so it's pretty obvious from where I sit.

    Here are some excerpts from a recently reviewed book on the rise of
    Hitler and nazism. See if any of this sounds vaguely familiar.

    Some have focused on the social and political conditions in post-World
    War I Germany, which Hitler expertly exploited — bitterness over the
    harsh terms of the Treaty of Versailles and a yearning for a return to
    German greatness; unemployment and economic distress amid the worldwide Depression of the early 1930s; and longstanding ethnic prejudices and
    fears of “foreignization.”

    See: The Great Recession of 2009. Anti-Immigrant sentiments: Mexicans
    are rapists and are taking our jobs. The Muslim ban.

    Volker Ullrich focused on Hitler as a politician who rose to power
    through demagoguery, showmanship and nativist appeals to the masses.
    Mr. Ullrich, like other biographers, provides vivid insight into some
    factors that helped turn a “Munich rabble-rouser” — regarded by many as a self-obsessed “clown” with a strangely “scattershot, impulsive style”

    See: The Republican Primary Debates. Trump political rallies. Any of them.

    Hitler was known, among colleagues, for a “bottomless mendacity” that would later be magnified by a slick propaganda machine that used the
    latest technology (radio, gramophone records, film) to spread his
    message. A former finance minister wrote that Hitler “was so thoroughly untruthful that he could no longer recognize the difference between
    lies and truth” and editors of one edition of “Mein Kampf” described it as a “swamp of lies, distortions, innuendoes, half-truths and real facts.”

    See: Fact checking Donald Trump at Politifact. No other candidate has
    lied more, or more brazenly.

    Hitler was an effective orator and actor, Mr. Ullrich reminds readers,
    adept at assuming various masks and feeding off the energy of his
    audiences. Although he concealed his anti-Semitism beneath a “mask of moderation” when trying to win the support of the socially liberal
    middle classes, he specialized in big, theatrical rallies staged with spectacular elements borrowed from the circus.

    See: Reality TV background. Every Trump rally. Every Trump speech.

    Here, “Hitler adapted the content of his speeches to suit the tastes of
    his lower-middle-class, nationalist-conservative, ethnic-chauvinist and anti-Semitic listeners,” Mr. Ullrich writes. He peppered his speeches
    with coarse phrases and put-downs of hecklers. Even as he fomented
    chaos by playing to crowds’ fears and resentments, he offered himself
    as the visionary leader who could restore law and order.

    See: "I'd like to punch 'em in the face." "Bomb the shit out of them".
    "I am the Law and Order candidate." Believe me, folks.

    “Hitler was often described as an egomaniac who ‘only loved himself,’”
    she notes, “a narcissist with a taste for self-dramatization and what
    Mr. Ullrich calls a ‘characteristic fondness for superlatives.’”

    See: "Great" "Tremendous" "bigly" "I'm really smart." "I'm really
    rich." "I have the BEST words."

    Hitler increasingly presented himself in messianic terms, promising “to lead Germany to a new era of national greatness,” though he was
    typically vague about his actual plans. He often harked back to a
    golden age for the country, Mr. Ullrich says, the better “to paint the present day in hues that were all the darker. Everywhere you looked
    now, there was only decline and decay.”

    See: "Make America Great Again"

    Hitler’s repertoire of topics, Mr. Ullrich notes, was limited, and
    reading his speeches in retrospect, “it seems amazing that he attracted larger and larger audiences” with “repeated mantralike phrases” consisting largely of “accusations, vows of revenge and promises for
    the future.”

    See: "Build that wall!" "Lock her up!" On Iranian boats: "We'll blow
    it out of the water."

    Mr. Ullrich suggests, and the belief of Hitler supporters that the
    country needed “a man of iron” who could shake things up. “Why not give the National Socialists a chance?”

    See: "I alone can fix this." "What do you have to lose!"

    Hitler’s ascension was aided and abetted by the naĂŻvetĂ© of domestic adversaries who failed to appreciate his ruthlessness and tenacity, and
    by foreign statesmen who believed they could control his aggression.
    Early on, revulsion at Hitler’s style and appearance, Mr. Ullrich
    writes, led some critics to underestimate the man and his popularity,
    while others dismissed him as a celebrity, a repellent but fascinating “evening’s entertainment.”

    See: The sixteen Republican candidates, all with more knowledge and
    experience than Trump. They all thought they'd eat Donald last, after
    they'd finished with their more capable rivals. So... who ended up as
    the last man standing?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/28/books/hitler-ascent-volker-ullrich.html?_r=0

    So, tell me... see anybody you recognize? Or does he have to grow an
    orange mustache first?

    --
    Donald Trump on Hillary Clinton 9-7-16: "She is trigger-happy and very unstable
"
    Four days later on 9-11-16 Trump said: "When Iran, when they circle our beautiful destroyers with their little boats, and they make gestures at
    our people that they shouldn’t be allowed to make, they will be shot
    out of the water."

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