• Dune [2021]: A Load of Grit.

    From alvey@21:1/5 to All on Tue Oct 19 05:38:00 2021
    So much anticipation, so little reward. Unlike even David Lynch's version,
    I won't be keeping this one. I mean, it's the year 10,000 and something and adults are speaking in LA High Schoolese. My memory isn't that great but
    I'm pretty sure that Duke Paul Atridies never said "We gotta get outta
    here" in the book. And the actress playing Lady Jessica got it all wrong. Rather than being an beautiful, confident & aristocratic schemer Rebecca Ferguson played it like a simpering Scandiwegian milkmaid. And a 100 other irritating things that the geek boards will be flooded with (The eyes
    Dennis! The eyes!) over the next few days.

    Anyhoo, not recommended. Or if you've read the book, to be actively
    avoided.



    alvey

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  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to alvey on Tue Oct 19 10:07:00 2021
    On 2021-10-18 19:38:00 +0000, alvey said:

    <snip>
    ... to be actively avoided.

    Basically sums up Dune in all its boring forms. :-p

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  • From alvey@21:1/5 to Your Name on Tue Oct 19 07:49:13 2021
    On Tue, 19 Oct 2021 10:07:00 +1300, Your Name wrote:

    On 2021-10-18 19:38:00 +0000, alvey said:

    <snip>
    ... to be actively avoided.

    Basically sums up Dune in all its boring forms. :-p

    Thank you Phylis Stein...



    alvey

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  • From trotsky@21:1/5 to Your Name on Thu Oct 21 12:15:53 2021
    On 10/18/21 4:07 PM, Your Name wrote:
    On 2021-10-18 19:38:00 +0000, alvey said:

    <snip>
    ... to be actively avoided.

    Basically sums up Dune in all its boring forms.  :-p


    Dipshit alert.

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  • From RichA@21:1/5 to Your Name on Thu Oct 21 20:33:00 2021
    On Monday, 18 October 2021 at 17:07:03 UTC-4, Your Name wrote:
    On 2021-10-18 19:38:00 +0000, alvey said:

    <snip>
    ... to be actively avoided.

    Basically sums up Dune in all its boring forms. :-p

    "Sandworms? You hate 'em, right?"

    -Beetlejuice.

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  • From Ed Stasiak@21:1/5 to All on Mon Oct 25 14:29:57 2021
    alvey

    And the actress playing Lady Jessica got it all wrong.
    Rather than being an beautiful, confident & aristocratic schemer Rebecca Ferguson played it like a simpering Scandiwegian milkmaid.

    Agreed, though it's not the actresses fault, as she's just doing what the director
    directs her to do.

    I was also miffed that they didn't film the dinner party in Arrakeen scene,
    as this not only is a great scene with all kinda good lines of dialog and opportunity for the actors to do their thing, it hints at the impending events.

    They also dropped the scene of Dr.Yueh talking to Jessica about his wife,
    which sets up his betrayal of the Atreides and this is pretty important. Without it, those who haven't read the books are left wondering why he
    did what he did.

    Also, the scene of Paul and Jessica flying thru the dust storm to escape the Harkonnens went on W A Y too long and the time should have been used for
    the stuff above. Not only is the scene not very important to the story but visually there's nothing there; it's just a sand yellow tinted cockpit with the characters bouncing around.

    The movie generally skips over the set-up for the Harkonnen attack, which
    makes me worried that the director is rushing into a love story with Paul and Chani, which the story is _not_ about.

    Anyhoo, not recommended. Or if you've read the book, to be actively avoided.

    I thought it was well done overall, other then what I mentioned above, it sticks
    pretty close to the book.

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  • From alvey@21:1/5 to Ed Stasiak on Tue Oct 26 09:53:51 2021
    On Mon, 25 Oct 2021 14:29:57 -0700 (PDT), Ed Stasiak wrote:

    alvey

    And the actress playing Lady Jessica got it all wrong.
    Rather than being an beautiful, confident & aristocratic schemer Rebecca
    Ferguson played it like a simpering Scandiwegian milkmaid.

    Agreed, though it's not the actresses fault, as she's just doing what the director
    directs her to do.

    I was also miffed that they didn't film the dinner party in Arrakeen scene, as this not only is a great scene with all kinda good lines of dialog and opportunity for the actors to do their thing, it hints at the impending events.

    They also dropped the scene of Dr.Yueh talking to Jessica about his wife, which sets up his betrayal of the Atreides and this is pretty important. Without it, those who haven't read the books are left wondering why he
    did what he did.

    Also, the scene of Paul and Jessica flying thru the dust storm to escape the Harkonnens went on W A Y too long and the time should have been used for
    the stuff above. Not only is the scene not very important to the story but visually there's nothing there; it's just a sand yellow tinted cockpit with the
    characters bouncing around.

    The movie generally skips over the set-up for the Harkonnen attack, which makes me worried that the director is rushing into a love story with Paul and Chani, which the story is _not_ about.

    Anyhoo, not recommended. Or if you've read the book, to be actively avoided.

    I thought it was well done overall, other then what I mentioned above, it sticks
    pretty close to the book.

    As for the next film... "Fear is the anticipation-killer"...


    alvey
    Noting that Paul Atreides is an anagram of Pause Dilater. Gotta be a gag in that somewhere.

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  • From J.B. Nicholson@21:1/5 to alvey on Wed Oct 27 03:03:03 2021
    alvey wrote:
    Anyhoo, not recommended. Or if you've read the book, to be actively
    avoided.

    I concur; I didn't read the book but I did see both this 2021 version
    and the Lynch version. It's been a while since I saw the Lynch version
    so I'll try to remember the story details but I'll probably get some
    of them wrong.

    I didn't care for either version because both versions seem to me to
    share the same major underlying story flaws -- it seems to me that the
    whole of the story is making a big deal of a minor changing of the
    guard. We watch how an empire passes control of a valuable and limited
    resource (spice from planet Arrakis) from one family/house to
    another. Both the old boss (Harkonnen) and new boss (Atreides) are
    wealthy empire apparatchiks.

    I didn't see the new boss as worth celebrating (like the the end of
    the Lynch version indicated). I never got a clear sense that life for
    spice workers or for Fremen toiling under the Atreides family (either
    father Leto or son Paul) went from being horrible to being much
    better. Therefore I wasn't emotionally moved when Arrakis was handed
    off to Atreides or when Paul became emporer. If clairvoyance is what
    one gains from being the Kwisatz Haderach (the messiah, which Paul
    also becomes), I don't understand why one would also need or desire to
    become emperor. It seems like the clairvoyance alone is worth way
    more.

    Dune requires way too much time to tell a dull story which offered no characters or plot lines I could identify with, was told almost
    without regard to the lower classes (even while basing much of the
    conflicts around class struggle), and was peppered with magic (which I
    took to be lazy writing).

    I won't be seeing more Dune. I'm done with Dune. For me it's not the
    case of Dune being too difficult to translate into a movie, it's a
    case of Dune not being worth the effort of translation.

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  • From Ted Nolan @21:1/5 to J.B. Nicholson on Wed Oct 27 03:38:03 2021
    In article <slrnsnhgb7.3ad0.jbn@forestfield.org>,
    J.B. Nicholson <jbn@forestfield.org> wrote:
    alvey wrote:
    Anyhoo, not recommended. Or if you've read the book, to be actively
    avoided.

    I concur; I didn't read the book but I did see both this 2021 version
    and the Lynch version. It's been a while since I saw the Lynch version
    so I'll try to remember the story details but I'll probably get some
    of them wrong.

    ...
    ...

    I won't be seeing more Dune. I'm done with Dune. For me it's not the
    case of Dune being too difficult to translate into a movie, it's a
    case of Dune not being worth the effort of translation.

    That's an interesting take: I don't like the movie, so the book is bad.
    --
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    What's not in Columbia anymore..

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  • From Ted Nolan @21:1/5 to J.B. Nicholson on Wed Oct 27 05:03:25 2021
    In article <slrnsnhluf.3er6.jbn@forestfield.org>,
    J.B. Nicholson <jbn@forestfield.org> wrote:
    Ted Nolan <tednolan> <ted@loft.tnolan.com> wrote:
    That's an interesting take: I don't like the movie, so the book is bad.

    That's not what I said, so your glib attempt at a joke is lame and
    bad. I didn't review the book. I reviewed the story I had been shown
    in the movies.


    It wasn't intended to be glib or a joke, that's what I got out of your
    post.

    I won't be seeing more Dune. I'm done with Dune. For me it's not the
    case of Dune being too difficult to translate into a movie, it's a
    case of Dune not being worth the effort of translation.

    I don't see another way to take that than as a diss of the source
    material (book). Which is fine -- I don't like the book as much as
    many people do. But I came to that conclusion after reading it.

    FWIW I thought the Lynch movie was a disaster back in the day. I didn't
    see 2000 mini-series, and I haven't yet seen the new movie, though I hope
    to make time for it in the next few weeks.
    --
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    What's not in Columbia anymore..

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  • From J.B. Nicholson@21:1/5 to ted@loft.tnolan.com on Wed Oct 27 04:38:39 2021
    Ted Nolan <tednolan> <ted@loft.tnolan.com> wrote:
    That's an interesting take: I don't like the movie, so the book is bad.

    That's not what I said, so your glib attempt at a joke is lame and
    bad. I didn't review the book. I reviewed the story I had been shown
    in the movies.

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  • From J.B. Nicholson@21:1/5 to ted@loft.tnolan.com on Wed Oct 27 06:24:50 2021
    Ted Nolan <tednolan> <ted@loft.tnolan.com> wrote:
    I don't see another way to take that than as a diss of the source
    material (book). Which is fine -- I don't like the book as much as
    many people do. But I came to that conclusion after reading it.

    A reasonable interpretation is not to assume that I'm critiquing the
    book which I explicitly mentioned I hadn't read but that I'm
    discussing the two Dune movie variants I wrote that I saw.

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  • From Ted Nolan @21:1/5 to J.B. Nicholson on Wed Oct 27 12:02:08 2021
    In article <slrnsnhs5i.5keq.jbn@forestfield.org>,
    J.B. Nicholson <jbn@forestfield.org> wrote:
    Ted Nolan <tednolan> <ted@loft.tnolan.com> wrote:
    I don't see another way to take that than as a diss of the source
    material (book). Which is fine -- I don't like the book as much as
    many people do. But I came to that conclusion after reading it.

    A reasonable interpretation is not to assume that I'm critiquing the
    book which I explicitly mentioned I hadn't read but that I'm
    discussing the two Dune movie variants I wrote that I saw.

    OK. I think I will see it this weekend, for better or worse.
    --
    columbiaclosings.com
    What's not in Columbia anymore..

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  • From Ed Stasiak@21:1/5 to All on Wed Oct 27 14:07:52 2021
    J.B. Nicholson
    alvey

    Anyhoo, not recommended. Or if you've read the book, to be actively avoided.

    I didn't read the book

    If you haven’t read the book(s) then you can’t say the story sucks
    and isn’t worth adapting.

    but I did see both this 2021 version and the Lynch version

    The Lynch version from 1984 is a great sci-fi flick but a terrible
    adaption and while the 2000-03 SyFy tv series was reasonably
    close to the books, it looked cheesy.

    The planned (14 hour long!) adaption by Alejandro Jodorowsky
    in the 1970s would have looked cool as hell but would have been
    a complete acid trip of a movie that had almost nothing to do with
    the original story (yet Frank Herbert was cool with it).

    The new movie looks good and I’m cautiously optimistic while at the
    same time, worried that the director is rushing thru the story to get
    to the action scenes and turn it into a love story, at the behest of his Chinese overlords producing the movie.

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  • From J.B. Nicholson@21:1/5 to Ed Stasiak on Wed Oct 27 22:54:19 2021
    Ed Stasiak <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote:
    If you haven’t read the book(s) then you can’t say the story sucks
    and isn’t worth adapting.

    Sure I can, in fact I already did. It's unfortunate that you didn't
    like the Lynch Dune movie but that movie, like any mainstream
    Hollywood movie aimed at a general audience, ought to be able to stand
    up on its own including the uninitiated.

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  • From trotsky@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 28 09:57:31 2021
    On 10/27/21 7:02 AM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
    In article <slrnsnhs5i.5keq.jbn@forestfield.org>,
    J.B. Nicholson <jbn@forestfield.org> wrote:
    Ted Nolan <tednolan> <ted@loft.tnolan.com> wrote:
    I don't see another way to take that than as a diss of the source
    material (book). Which is fine -- I don't like the book as much as
    many people do. But I came to that conclusion after reading it.

    A reasonable interpretation is not to assume that I'm critiquing the
    book which I explicitly mentioned I hadn't read but that I'm
    discussing the two Dune movie variants I wrote that I saw.

    OK. I think I will see it this weekend, for better or worse.


    For better or worse? It's practically flawless.

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  • From Ed Stasiak@21:1/5 to All on Fri Oct 29 13:12:28 2021
    J.B. Nicholson
    Ed Stasiak

    If you haven’t read the book(s) then you can’t say the story sucks
    and isn’t worth adapting.

    Sure I can, in fact I already did.

    No, you're saying the 1984 and 2021 movies story sucks, you haven't
    read the original story and so you can't say it sucks.

    It's unfortunate that you didn't like the Lynch Dune movie

    I liked it as a sci-fi flick but I didn't like it as an adaption of "Dune".

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  • From J.B. Nicholson@21:1/5 to Ed Stasiak on Fri Oct 29 22:04:39 2021
    Ed Stasiak <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote:
    No, you're saying the 1984 and 2021 movies story sucks, you haven't
    read the original story and so you can't say it sucks.

    The gatekeeping you and one other poster bring up here suggests you
    two have some other interest in defending the story against anyone who
    dares to critique it. Since I initially posted on this thread friends
    of mine who have read the first book told me that the Lynch movie is a reasonable adaptation of that story. According to the early-80s
    interviews around the release of Lynch's Dune Frank Herbert seems to
    be fine with the Lynch movie. I take their words for that. I think I
    get enough of the story to be sufficiently well-versed in it to stand
    by my views of both movies and I remain convinced that Dune is simply
    highly overrated.

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  • From trotsky@21:1/5 to J.B. Nicholson on Sat Oct 30 06:44:47 2021
    On 10/29/21 5:04 PM, J.B. Nicholson wrote:
    Ed Stasiak <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote:
    No, you're saying the 1984 and 2021 movies story sucks, you haven't
    read the original story and so you can't say it sucks.

    The gatekeeping you and one other poster bring up here suggests you
    two have some other interest in defending the story against anyone who
    dares to critique it. Since I initially posted on this thread friends
    of mine who have read the first book told me that the Lynch movie is a reasonable adaptation of that story.


    I can't tell if you're lying or just misinformed. According to wiki the
    "rough cut" of the movie was over four hours long, and there was a 186
    minute version of the story that was shown on TV that Lynch disavowed.
    So much more story was shot, but it sounds like Lynch wanted a link that
    could be shown in the theaters that wasn't too long so it stands to
    reason a large amount of storytelling was missing from his version.


    According to the early-80s
    interviews around the release of Lynch's Dune Frank Herbert seems to
    be fine with the Lynch movie.


    A Google search doesn't yield any such comments, and I wonder if they exist.


    I take their words for that. I think I
    get enough of the story to be sufficiently well-versed in it to stand
    by my views of both movies and I remain convinced that Dune is simply
    highly overrated.


    The new Dune has the best cast I've ever seen in a movie. The special
    effects and set designs are state of the art. The sound, even watching
    it streaming on TV was incredible. And it captures the spirit of the
    book very well. What it doesn't do is capture the sense of machinations
    behind the scenes that are constantly going on, showing the book to be
    as much political commentary as it was "science fiction". If you want
    the proper Dune experience you have to read the book. The movie is a
    nice companion piece though, especially seeing the sandworms brought to
    life.

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  • From moviePig@21:1/5 to Ed Stasiak on Mon Nov 1 23:32:56 2021
    On 10/25/2021 5:29 PM, Ed Stasiak wrote:
    alvey

    And the actress playing Lady Jessica got it all wrong.
    Rather than being an beautiful, confident & aristocratic schemer Rebecca
    Ferguson played it like a simpering Scandiwegian milkmaid.

    Agreed, though it's not the actresses fault, as she's just doing what the director
    directs her to do.

    I was also miffed that they didn't film the dinner party in Arrakeen scene, as this not only is a great scene with all kinda good lines of dialog and opportunity for the actors to do their thing, it hints at the impending events.

    They also dropped the scene of Dr.Yueh talking to Jessica about his wife, which sets up his betrayal of the Atreides and this is pretty important. Without it, those who haven't read the books are left wondering why he
    did what he did.

    Also, the scene of Paul and Jessica flying thru the dust storm to escape the Harkonnens went on W A Y too long and the time should have been used for
    the stuff above. Not only is the scene not very important to the story but visually there's nothing there; it's just a sand yellow tinted cockpit with the
    characters bouncing around.

    The movie generally skips over the set-up for the Harkonnen attack, which makes me worried that the director is rushing into a love story with Paul and Chani, which the story is _not_ about.

    Anyhoo, not recommended. Or if you've read the book, to be actively avoided.

    I thought it was well done overall, other then what I mentioned above, it sticks
    pretty close to the book.

    I think "well done overall" sums up my reaction, too ...at least as far
    as recreating the book's ambience. (This was an Art Director's movie,
    and I thought they pulled it off.) Do miss the Guild, though...

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  • From Otto J. Makela@21:1/5 to moviePig on Wed Nov 3 14:40:34 2021
    moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:

    I think "well done overall" sums up my reaction, too ...at least as
    far as recreating the book's ambience. (This was an Art Director's
    movie, and I thought they pulled it off.) Do miss the Guild, though...

    I suspect we'll encounter the Guild at a later point. If I remember
    correctly, they didn't really manifest as individuals in the first book
    which was a clear change in the Lynch movie.

    --
    /* * * Otto J. Makela <om@iki.fi> * * * * * * * * * */
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  • From moviePig@21:1/5 to Otto J. Makela on Wed Nov 3 10:26:07 2021
    On 11/3/2021 8:40 AM, Otto J. Makela wrote:
    moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:

    I think "well done overall" sums up my reaction, too ...at least as
    far as recreating the book's ambience. (This was an Art Director's
    movie, and I thought they pulled it off.) Do miss the Guild, though...

    I suspect we'll encounter the Guild at a later point. If I remember correctly, they didn't really manifest as individuals in the first book
    which was a clear change in the Lynch movie.

    I only vaguely remember them as a political presence. But I thought the "technology" they afforded was one of 'Dune's better sci-fi conceits.

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  • From trotsky@21:1/5 to moviePig on Sun Nov 7 13:33:28 2021
    On 11/3/2021 9:26 AM, moviePig wrote:
    On 11/3/2021 8:40 AM, Otto J. Makela wrote:
    moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:

    I think "well done overall" sums up my reaction, too ...at least as
    far as recreating the book's ambience. (This was an Art Director's
    movie, and I thought they pulled it off.) Do miss the Guild, though...

    I suspect we'll encounter the Guild at a later point. If I remember
    correctly, they didn't really manifest as individuals in the first book
    which was a clear change in the Lynch movie.

    I only vaguely remember them as a political presence.  But I thought the "technology" they afforded was one of 'Dune's better sci-fi conceits.



    Tech was never a focus of Herbert, intrigue was.

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  • From moviePig@21:1/5 to trotsky on Sun Nov 7 15:39:19 2021
    On 11/7/2021 2:33 PM, trotsky wrote:
    On 11/3/2021 9:26 AM, moviePig wrote:
    On 11/3/2021 8:40 AM, Otto J. Makela wrote:
    moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:

    I think "well done overall" sums up my reaction, too ...at least as
    far as recreating the book's ambience. (This was an Art Director's
    movie, and I thought they pulled it off.) Do miss the Guild, though...

    I suspect we'll encounter the Guild at a later point. If I remember
    correctly, they didn't really manifest as individuals in the first book
    which was a clear change in the Lynch movie.

    I only vaguely remember them as a political presence.  But I thought
    the "technology" they afforded was one of 'Dune's better sci-fi conceits.



    Tech was never a focus of Herbert, intrigue was.

    ...which is perhaps why that particular tech wafted into mysticism.

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  • From moviePig@21:1/5 to trotsky on Sun Nov 7 17:01:15 2021
    On 11/7/2021 4:18 PM, trotsky wrote:
    On 11/7/2021 2:39 PM, moviePig wrote:
    On 11/7/2021 2:33 PM, trotsky wrote:
    On 11/3/2021 9:26 AM, moviePig wrote:
    On 11/3/2021 8:40 AM, Otto J. Makela wrote:
    moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:

    I think "well done overall" sums up my reaction, too ...at least as >>>>>> far as recreating the book's ambience. (This was an Art Director's >>>>>> movie, and I thought they pulled it off.) Do miss the Guild,
    though...

    I suspect we'll encounter the Guild at a later point. If I remember
    correctly, they didn't really manifest as individuals in the first
    book
    which was a clear change in the Lynch movie.

    I only vaguely remember them as a political presence.  But I thought
    the "technology" they afforded was one of 'Dune's better sci-fi
    conceits.



    Tech was never a focus of Herbert, intrigue was.

    ...which is perhaps why that particular tech wafted into mysticism.


    Yeah, I would say it's as much fantasy as science fiction. In fact, does science really enter into it?

    Well, the plausibility of giant mobile creatures is always dicey, but I
    did like the just-loopy-enough idea of warping space (with spice) to
    achieve interstellar travel. One reviewer had the temerity to compare
    this movie to STAR WARS, as if they were in the same genre...

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  • From trotsky@21:1/5 to moviePig on Sun Nov 7 15:18:11 2021
    On 11/7/2021 2:39 PM, moviePig wrote:
    On 11/7/2021 2:33 PM, trotsky wrote:
    On 11/3/2021 9:26 AM, moviePig wrote:
    On 11/3/2021 8:40 AM, Otto J. Makela wrote:
    moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:

    I think "well done overall" sums up my reaction, too ...at least as
    far as recreating the book's ambience. (This was an Art Director's
    movie, and I thought they pulled it off.) Do miss the Guild, though... >>>>
    I suspect we'll encounter the Guild at a later point. If I remember
    correctly, they didn't really manifest as individuals in the first book >>>> which was a clear change in the Lynch movie.

    I only vaguely remember them as a political presence.  But I thought
    the "technology" they afforded was one of 'Dune's better sci-fi
    conceits.



    Tech was never a focus of Herbert, intrigue was.

    ...which is perhaps why that particular tech wafted into mysticism.


    Yeah, I would say it's as much fantasy as science fiction. In fact, does science really enter into it?

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  • From J.B. Nicholson@21:1/5 to trotsky on Sun Nov 7 22:31:42 2021
    trotsky <gmsingh@email.com> wrote:
    Yeah, I would say it's as much fantasy as science fiction. In fact,
    does science really enter into it?

    Dune is certainly fantasy and not science fiction despite the
    spaceships. The "voice" (the ability to push a virtually unignorable
    and seemingly highly suggestive command into anyone else's head at
    will where only the trained or familiar can resist the command) is
    pure fantasy. Spice seems magical -- a mild hallucinogen that causes
    small effects in the human-like creatures of Dune (blue eyes, if I
    recall the movies) when one is exposed to enough spice, but spice is
    also powerful enough to play a key role in giant spaceships traversing
    great distances via space folding. Both are piles of unanswered
    questions that the story doesn't seem to want the audience to ask. The
    limits are basically undiscussed in both Lynch's Dune and the new Dune
    part 1 movies. I got the impression that scientific inquiry is also
    absent; the long movies trudge along without seeing people conduct
    experiments in order to learn how their universe works. Instead,
    learning the voice takes a secret-shared-among-the-few mode like
    witches practicing magic spells.

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  • From Eddie Grove@21:1/5 to trotsky on Sun Nov 7 14:30:10 2021
    trotsky <gmsingh@email.com> writes:

    On 11/7/2021 2:39 PM, moviePig wrote:
    On 11/7/2021 2:33 PM, trotsky wrote:
    On 11/3/2021 9:26 AM, moviePig wrote:
    On 11/3/2021 8:40 AM, Otto J. Makela wrote:
    moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:

    I think "well done overall" sums up my reaction, too ...at least as >>>>>> far as recreating the book's ambience. (This was an Art Director's >>>>>> movie, and I thought they pulled it off.) Do miss the Guild, though... >>>>>
    I suspect we'll encounter the Guild at a later point. If I remember
    correctly, they didn't really manifest as individuals in the first book >>>>> which was a clear change in the Lynch movie.

    I only vaguely remember them as a political presence.  But I
    thought the "technology" they afforded was one of 'Dune's better
    sci-fi conceits.



    Tech was never a focus of Herbert, intrigue was.

    ...which is perhaps why that particular tech wafted into mysticism.


    Yeah, I would say it's as much fantasy as science fiction. In fact,
    does science really enter into it?

    Most stuff passed off as science fiction is just fantasy with silly
    impossible tech explanations for how the magic works.

    The series is the creation story of a god. That's how I approach it.
    The science is about as good as a 40 night storm drowning the earth.
    Shoot a laser at a shield and -boom- devastating explosion.
    Conservation of mass, energy, or even water don't apply.

    Don't get me wrong. I enjoyed the book, and will watch whatever movies
    come out.

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  • From Bice@21:1/5 to All on Mon Nov 8 12:36:22 2021
    On Sun, 7 Nov 2021 17:01:15 -0500, moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
    wrote:

    Well, the plausibility of giant mobile creatures is always dicey, but I
    did like the just-loopy-enough idea of warping space (with spice) to
    achieve interstellar travel.

    It's been a while since I've read the books, but I don't think the
    spice was actually used to warp space. It just made the navigators
    prescient enough to know which warped paths through space would be
    safe to travel.

    -- Bob

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  • From moviePig@21:1/5 to Bice on Mon Nov 8 09:33:37 2021
    On 11/8/2021 7:36 AM, Bice wrote:
    On Sun, 7 Nov 2021 17:01:15 -0500, moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
    wrote:

    Well, the plausibility of giant mobile creatures is always dicey, but I
    did like the just-loopy-enough idea of warping space (with spice) to
    achieve interstellar travel.

    It's been a while since I've read the books, but I don't think the
    spice was actually used to warp space. It just made the navigators
    prescient enough to know which warped paths through space would be
    safe to travel.

    A while for me, too, and I'll readily defer. Nor did I mean any
    methodology specific enough to exclude that description.

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  • From J.B. Nicholson@21:1/5 to trotsky on Thu Nov 11 02:24:37 2021
    trotsky <gmsingh@email.com> wrote:
    If you want the proper Dune experience you have to read the book.

    No, nobody needs to do that. You're trying to distract attention from
    a disapproving review of a movie with a hamfisted no true Scotsman
    retort.

    What you offer in response doesn't address any point I raised in my
    review. I'm guessing that you don't repeat that rubbish to anyone who
    didn't read the book but tells you that they liked Villeneuve's Dune.

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  • From trotsky@21:1/5 to moviePig on Thu Nov 11 20:49:10 2021
    On 11/7/2021 4:01 PM, moviePig wrote:
    On 11/7/2021 4:18 PM, trotsky wrote:
    On 11/7/2021 2:39 PM, moviePig wrote:
    On 11/7/2021 2:33 PM, trotsky wrote:
    On 11/3/2021 9:26 AM, moviePig wrote:
    On 11/3/2021 8:40 AM, Otto J. Makela wrote:
    moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:

    I think "well done overall" sums up my reaction, too ...at least as >>>>>>> far as recreating the book's ambience. (This was an Art Director's >>>>>>> movie, and I thought they pulled it off.) Do miss the Guild,
    though...

    I suspect we'll encounter the Guild at a later point. If I remember >>>>>> correctly, they didn't really manifest as individuals in the first >>>>>> book
    which was a clear change in the Lynch movie.

    I only vaguely remember them as a political presence.  But I
    thought the "technology" they afforded was one of 'Dune's better
    sci-fi conceits.



    Tech was never a focus of Herbert, intrigue was.

    ...which is perhaps why that particular tech wafted into mysticism.


    Yeah, I would say it's as much fantasy as science fiction. In fact,
    does science really enter into it?

    Well, the plausibility of giant mobile creatures is always dicey, but I
    did like the just-loopy-enough idea of warping space (with spice) to
    achieve interstellar travel.  One reviewer had the temerity to compare
    this movie to STAR WARS, as if they were in the same genre...


    Some people think labelling a movie with a "genre" is somehow
    meaningful, but I always thought Star Wars was best labelled Cowboys and Indians in space. Meanwhile Dune is a sprawling five hundred page
    fantasy with elements of science fiction. And I believe the political
    intrigue and elements of religion are its main focus. The pigeonholing
    is the sign of a small mind.

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  • From trotsky@21:1/5 to moviePig on Sun Nov 14 05:33:43 2021
    On 11/8/2021 8:33 AM, moviePig wrote:
    On 11/8/2021 7:36 AM, Bice wrote:
    On Sun, 7 Nov 2021 17:01:15 -0500, moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
    wrote:

    Well, the plausibility of giant mobile creatures is always dicey, but I
    did like the just-loopy-enough idea of warping space (with spice) to
    achieve interstellar travel.

    It's been a while since I've read the books, but I don't think the
    spice was actually used to warp space.  It just made the navigators
    prescient enough to know which warped paths through space would be
    safe to travel.

    A while for me, too, and I'll readily defer.  Nor did I mean any
    methodology specific enough to exclude that description.



    I can't remember either but Bice sounds like he's right. Maybe the book
    is unfilmable. Villeneuve took a damn good shot at it though.

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  • From Ed Stasiak@21:1/5 to All on Mon Nov 22 15:24:52 2021
    trotsky
    J.B. Nicholson

    The gatekeeping you and one other poster bring up here suggests you
    two have some other interest in defending the story against anyone who dares to critique it.

    Nonsense, if you want to shoot the shit about the books (when you get
    around to reading them) then I’m up for it but you’re saying the _story_ sucks and is unflimable, when you’ve only seen _adaptions_ of the story.

    Since I initially posted on this thread friends of mine who have read the first book told me that the Lynch movie is a reasonable adaptation of
    that story.

    I can't tell if you're lying or just misinformed. According to wiki the "rough cut" of the movie was over four hours long, and there was a 186 minute version of the story that was shown on TV that Lynch disavowed.
    So much more story was shot, but it sounds like Lynch wanted a link that could be shown in the theaters that wasn't too long so it stands to
    reason a large amount of storytelling was missing from his version.

    The best version I’ve seen is the “Alternative Edition Redux Fanedit”.

    According to the early-80s interviews around the release of Lynch's
    Dune Frank Herbert seems to be fine with the Lynch movie.

    A Google search doesn't yield any such comments, and I wonder if
    they exist.

    Wouldn’t surprise me, Frank Herbert seemed happy anyone was willing
    to film his story, he was even fine with Jodorowsky’s planned version
    even though it would have had little connection to the book.

    If you haven't seen it yet, I highly recommend "Jodorowsky’s Dune",
    a really good documentary interviewing the director and others about
    the never-filmed adaption of "Dune".

    The guy is bat-shit crazy but I would have liked to have seen his adaption,
    as it would have been cool as fuck even if only remotely connected to
    the original story.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jodorowsky%27s_Dune

    https://i.postimg.cc/0Nn2LVVy/jodorowsky-frank-herbert.jpg https://ibb.co/s2JT9dN

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