• [TVparty] The Strange Death of Roger C. Carmel

    From Ubiquitous@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jun 7 15:41:25 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.tv, rec.arts.tv

    Roger C. Carmel was a utilitarian television character actor, appearing first on Broadway and then as a supporting guest player on a wide range of TV
    dramas (Naked City, Route 66) as well as sitcoms (Patty Duke Show, Dick Van Dyke Show) beginning around 1960.

    Mothers-in-LawAfter dozens of guest appearances, Carmel was cast as a regular in 1967 on The Mothers-in-Law, Desi Arnaz' first post-Lucy production effort.

    The Mothers-in-Law starred Kaye Ballard as Kay Buell and Eve Arden as Eve Hubbard, two longtime next-door neighbors who become reluctant in-laws when their kids marry. Roger Carmel costarred as Kay's husband Roger and Herbert Rudley played Eve's husband Herb.

    For the series, Arnaz pulled together the best talent available on the Desilu lot. Madelyn Pugh Davis and Bob Carroll, Jr., who wrote so many of the
    classic I Love Lucy episodes, penned the pilot and continued on as writers
    for the run of series. The Lucy Show's original producer Elliot Lewis was tapped to produce as Lucy's show was number two in the ratings in 1967.
    Success seemed assured.

    NBC had high hopes for The Mothers-in-Law but ratings weren't spectacular -
    the network only renewed the sitcom for a second year when ABC announced they were interested in picking it up. NBC ordered 22 new episodes with one caveat
    - they weren't willing to pay any increases in budget or salaries - this was customary as a show entered each new year.

    https://youtu.be/kaaCdUCnZZA

    Even though everyone's contract specifically called for raises for the second season, the producers, crew and all of the actors agreed to forego salary increases in order to keep the show on the air. All but Roger Carmel, who announced he would quit unless he received a second season raise. Period.

    "Desi called me and put it on a personal basis," Carmel stated at the time.
    "I didn't feel it should be done that way - it was very unfair of him. Then Desi and the Morris Agency threatened I would be replaced. Kaye Ballard and
    Eve Arden also called me and asked me to go along, but I wouldn't."

    "Where else is he going to make two thousand dollars a week?" was Desi
    Arnaz's answer. He knew that if Desilu gave one cast member a raise, they
    would all have to be compensated so he had no choice but to recast the role
    of Roger Buell. The Mothers-in-Law was canceled after limping through the second season.

    Today, Roger C. Carmel is probably best known for guest-starring roles he did on another Desilu series at this same time. On Star Trek Carmel played the incorrigible space-trader Harry Mudd in two episodes of the original (1966-
    69) series. Harry Mudd, you may remember, was the guy who had the planet of beautiful female robots. He also played Colonel Gumm on TV's Batman in 1967.

    After The Mothers-in-Law, Carmel as a semi-regular on a syndicated quiz show called Stump The Stars from 1968-1970 and reprised the role of Harry Mudd on
    an episode of the animated version of Star Trek (1973-75).

    Despite the popularity of the Harry Mudd character, another regular role in
    an ongoing television series was elusive. That's where the money is in television.

    Carmel remained a popular sitcom guest-star, with character parts (mostly ethnic) all throughout the seventies on shows like Owen Marshall, All In The Family, LaVerne and Shirley, Chico and The Man, and Three's Company. He also appeared in unsuccessful B-movies like Thunder and Lightning in 1977 and
    Hardly Working in 1981.

    In 1981, Roger C. Carmel caught a break, cast as a regular on a network
    program Fitz and Bones on NBC. An hour-long drama, this show starred the Smothers Brothers as investigative reporters.

    The series bombed, lasting only one month, the lowest-rated series for the entire season.

    Roles became harder to get after 1981 as Carmel began doing cartoon voices
    for kid favorites like The Transformers (he was Bruticus, Motormaster and one of the Quintessons, if you must know).

    It was in commercials that Roger C. Carmel made his way back - his final ongoing role was as Senor Naugles, the "Mexican" spokesperson for the West Coast based Naugles fast-food chain. He was a kindly, old Mexican General,
    kind of like Colonel Sanders was for KFC.Off-screen, Senor Naugles had a voracious appetite all right - for drugs and male prostitutes.

    The commercials were very successful and the campaign seemed destined to run for a long time - the fast food chain was expanding rapidly.



    But Carmel's excesses caught up to him. It was widely reported that the actor (at age 54) committed suicide on November 11, 1986 - from an overdose of aspirin.

    I was told that, in fact, Roger C. Carmel died of a crack cocaine overdose while romping with a young male prostitute to celebrate his new good fortune. It was related to me by one of the prostitutes that frequented Carmel's home
    in 1986. An 'aspirin overdose' story was released to protect the client's
    image as much as possible.

    Either way, this was bad news for Naugles restaurants. After several floundering attempts to come up with another winning ad campaign, Naugles hit hard times and was bought out a few years later (at fire sale prices) by
    rival Del Taco.

    Which was a shame, because Naugles was the best Mexican fast food chain in
    the eighties and Del Taco the worst - and Roger C. Carmel was a much loved television player!

    Joel Eisner tells us:
    I have a story about The Mothers in Law I thought you might like. As you know having read my Batbook, Roger C. Carmel played Colonel Gumm in the Green
    Hornet crossover episode. I had the opportunity to meet with Roger over lunch at Musso and Franks in L.A. back in the summer of 1985.

    We discussed parts of his career including The Mothers in Law. Roger had a career in NY TV prior to moving to LA in the early 1960's. When the first season ended, Desi Arnaz told the entire cast that the show had a five year guarantee but there was no money to give the promised raises. Now the part
    that most people were not aware of was that Desi Arnaz was taking four
    salaries from the series - producer, creator, writer and director (he wrote
    and directed several episodes). So, Roger knowing Arnaz was in fact legally stealing from the show, pushed back and in fact quit the show.

    Unable or unwilling to give the cast their raises Arnaz hired Richard Deacon (whom Roger refered to as that poor schmuck who always sold himself short). When the show was cancelled, Roger said Kaye Ballard called him and told him that he was right and they all should have held Arnaz to their contract
    raises.

    Here is the clincher. When I told Roger that during the second season, Arnaz joined the cast as an out of work bullfighter, Roger smiled and said that
    Cuban SOB, no wonder their wasn't any money for raises, he planned on taking
    a fifth salary as an actor!

    Not long after the show was cancelled, Roger signed a long term contract to provide the voice of Smokey the Bear in PSA's for the forestry service, a job he kept until the day he died. So he was never in need of money, as many sources claimed.

    He also dubbed the voice of Gert Frobe as Baron Bomburst in the film Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. If you listen to Frobe in Goldfinger where he used his real voice and his voice in Chitty, you can tell it was over dubbed, and it sounds just like Roger when he did the part of Boris Serveroff, one of Colonel
    Gumm's aliases on Batman.

    By the way, the C. in Roger's name is for Charles, which was his
    grandfather's name. Charles Carmel, was a famous artesian who carved the
    horses at Rye Playland (Rye, NY), Coney Island and the NY Central park carousels. Roger was still in posession of an unfinished rocking horse, that his grandfather was carving for his younger brother, but the boy died, (of
    what causes he didn't say) before he could finish it. It was the only thing that Roger had left of both his brother and his grandfather.

    Roger's father was a doctor who had his office in the family home, a small mansion size house on the corner of Manchester and Winchester streets in the Flatbush section of Brooklyn. When his father died, he sold the house and
    moved his mother to PA to live with his sister.

    I learned of Roger's death while I was attending a sci-fi convention in Atlanta. I was still running the Irwin Allen/ Lost in Space fan club and Jonathan Harris was one of the guests. During the convention the news of Roger's death spread throughout the convention, but Jonathan, whom I had
    known for years, told me in private that he had spoken with Henry Gibson (who was a mutual friend of both Roger and Jonathan) who told him that Roger was having chest pains and called down to his doorman to call him a cab to go to the hospital.

    Minutes later the cab arrived but no Roger. The doorman waved the cab away
    and never thought to check on Roger. They found him later dead on this apt floor. It was also implied that he had been using cocaine.

    - Joel Eisner

    --
    Trump won.

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  • From A Friend@21:1/5 to weberm@polaris.net on Mon Jun 7 22:53:36 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.tv

    In article <s9lsp5$hr8$2@dont-email.me>, Ubiquitous
    <weberm@polaris.net> wrote:

    Here is the clincher. When I told Roger that during the second season, Arnaz joined the cast as an out of work bullfighter, Roger smiled and said that Cuban SOB, no wonder their wasn't any money for raises, he planned on taking a fifth salary as an actor!


    Maybe, maybe not. I was around then, though, and Desi showing up on
    The Mothers-in-Law was a huge, huge story. It had been a while since
    he'd done the Lucy hour-longs, and people wanted to see him again.

    As I recall, the plot was that the mothers-in-law were trapped
    overnight in a department store that had closed, and when they tried to
    call the local cops, they somehow got Desi in Spain instead. They did
    another episode with Desi in which he visits the moms in America, but
    that episode wasn't nearly as good as the first.

    BTW the story about the raises (or lack of same) was in the papers at
    the time. Carmel did not come off well.

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  • From anim8rfsk@21:1/5 to A Friend on Mon Jun 7 22:27:31 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.tv

    A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
    In article <s9lsp5$hr8$2@dont-email.me>, Ubiquitous
    <weberm@polaris.net> wrote:

    Here is the clincher. When I told Roger that during the second season, Arnaz >> joined the cast as an out of work bullfighter, Roger smiled and said that
    Cuban SOB, no wonder their wasn't any money for raises, he planned on taking >> a fifth salary as an actor!


    Maybe, maybe not. I was around then, though, and Desi showing up on
    The Mothers-in-Law was a huge, huge story. It had been a while since
    he'd done the Lucy hour-longs, and people wanted to see him again.

    As I recall, the plot was that the mothers-in-law were trapped
    overnight in a department store that had closed, and when they tried to
    call the local cops, they somehow got Desi in Spain instead. They did another episode with Desi in which he visits the moms in America, but
    that episode wasn't nearly as good as the first.

    BTW the story about the raises (or lack of same) was in the papers at
    the time. Carmel did not come off well.


    Eisner’s contention that Desi was legally stealing four and later five salaries is ludicrous on its face. If he was doing four or five jobs why shouldn’t he be taking four or five salaries? Besides, all we know for
    sure is that he was getting four or five credits.


    “The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it’s still on my list.”

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  • From super70s@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 8 01:47:42 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.tv, rec.arts.tv

    He also dubbed the voice of Gert Frobe as Baron Bomburst in the
    film Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. If you listen to Frobe in Goldfinger where
    he used his real voice and his voice in Chitty, you can tell it was over dubbed,

    ? I've always heard that the voice of Frobe (who reportedly didn't speak
    a word of English) was dubbed in Goldfinger, maybe he's talking about
    some isolated grunt or something.

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  • From A Friend@21:1/5 to anim8rfsk@cox.net on Tue Jun 8 06:11:55 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.tv

    In article
    <1563868029.644817683.960077.anim8rfsk-cox.net@news.easynews.com>,
    anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:

    A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
    In article <s9lsp5$hr8$2@dont-email.me>, Ubiquitous
    <weberm@polaris.net> wrote:

    Here is the clincher. When I told Roger that during the second
    season, Arnaz joined the cast as an out of work bullfighter, Roger
    smiled and said that Cuban SOB, no wonder their wasn't any money
    for raises, he planned on taking a fifth salary as an actor!


    Maybe, maybe not. I was around then, though, and Desi showing up on
    The Mothers-in-Law was a huge, huge story. It had been a while since
    he'd done the Lucy hour-longs, and people wanted to see him again.

    As I recall, the plot was that the mothers-in-law were trapped
    overnight in a department store that had closed, and when they tried to call the local cops, they somehow got Desi in Spain instead. They did another episode with Desi in which he visits the moms in America, but
    that episode wasn't nearly as good as the first.

    BTW the story about the raises (or lack of same) was in the papers at
    the time. Carmel did not come off well.


    Eisners contention that Desi was legally stealing four and later five salaries is ludicrous on its face. If he was doing four or five jobs why shouldnt he be taking four or five salaries? Besides, all we know for
    sure is that he was getting four or five credits.


    I'd also like to add that the series didn't stand a chance to begin
    with. It ran on Sundays at 830p ET for both of its seasons, opposite
    the second half-hours of Ed Sullivan's variety show and Efrem
    Zimbalist's FBI series.

    Desi Arnaz had, and still has, a reputation for generosity and fair
    dealing. I don't buy Carmel's take on this.

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  • From anim8rfsk@21:1/5 to A Friend on Tue Jun 8 04:44:16 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.tv

    A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
    In article
    <1563868029.644817683.960077.anim8rfsk-cox.net@news.easynews.com>,
    anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:

    A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
    In article <s9lsp5$hr8$2@dont-email.me>, Ubiquitous
    <weberm@polaris.net> wrote:

    Here is the clincher. When I told Roger that during the second
    season, Arnaz joined the cast as an out of work bullfighter, Roger
    smiled and said that Cuban SOB, no wonder their wasn't any money
    for raises, he planned on taking a fifth salary as an actor!


    Maybe, maybe not. I was around then, though, and Desi showing up on
    The Mothers-in-Law was a huge, huge story. It had been a while since
    he'd done the Lucy hour-longs, and people wanted to see him again.

    As I recall, the plot was that the mothers-in-law were trapped
    overnight in a department store that had closed, and when they tried to
    call the local cops, they somehow got Desi in Spain instead. They did
    another episode with Desi in which he visits the moms in America, but
    that episode wasn't nearly as good as the first.

    BTW the story about the raises (or lack of same) was in the papers at
    the time. Carmel did not come off well.


    Eisner¹s contention that Desi was legally stealing four and later five
    salaries is ludicrous on its face. If he was doing four or five jobs why
    shouldn¹t he be taking four or five salaries? Besides, all we know for
    sure is that he was getting four or five credits.


    I'd also like to add that the series didn't stand a chance to begin
    with. It ran on Sundays at 830p ET for both of its seasons, opposite
    the second half-hours of Ed Sullivan's variety show and Efrem
    Zimbalist's FBI series.

    Desi Arnaz had, and still has, a reputation for generosity and fair
    dealing. I don't buy Carmel's take on this.


    I agree although I think it’s Eisner whose take I don’t buy.

    There are lots of examples of the networks pulling this kind of crap though
    at that time in history, saying they’d renew a show if said show will cut their budget. Supposedly that’s what happened to both lost in space and the time tunnel. And Star Trek was getting similar notes in it’s third season with the network wanting planet shows instead of ship shows But also
    wanting them at a lower cost.


    “The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it’s still on my list.”

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  • From Adam H. Kerman@21:1/5 to A Friend on Tue Jun 8 14:01:58 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.tv

    A Friend wrote:
    Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net> wrote:

    Here is the clincher. When I told Roger that during the second season, Arnaz >>joined the cast as an out of work bullfighter, Roger smiled and said that >>Cuban SOB, no wonder their wasn't any money for raises, he planned on taking >>a fifth salary as an actor!

    Maybe, maybe not. I was around then, though, and Desi showing up on
    The Mothers-in-Law was a huge, huge story. It had been a while since
    he'd done the Lucy hour-longs, and people wanted to see him again.

    As I recall, the plot was that the mothers-in-law were trapped
    overnight in a department store that had closed, and when they tried to
    call the local cops, they somehow got Desi in Spain instead. They did >another episode with Desi in which he visits the moms in America, but
    that episode wasn't nearly as good as the first.

    BTW the story about the raises (or lack of same) was in the papers at
    the time. Carmel did not come off well.

    Why would the show have had a five-year guarantee? I don't buy that.

    I'm calling bullshit on the headline. Ubi just lies about everything.

    Harry Mudd's drug overdose! (superimposed over a photograph of Carmel in character)
    The Death of Roger C. Carmel?
    by Bob Tulley
    with added commentary by Joel Eisner

    The Web page's title is "Roger C. Carmel / Sad Death of Roger C. Carmel" http://www.tvparty.com/mysmudd.html

    Unfortunately, there's nothing "strange" about death by apparent drug
    overdose or bad reaction to drugs.

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  • From Adam H. Kerman@21:1/5 to super70s@super70s.invalid on Tue Jun 8 13:51:53 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.tv, rec.arts.tv

    super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:

    He also dubbed the voice of Gert Frobe as Baron Bomburst in the
    film Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. If you listen to Frobe in Goldfinger where
    he used his real voice and his voice in Chitty, you can tell it was over >>dubbed,

    ? I've always heard that the voice of Frobe (who reportedly didn't speak
    a word of English) was dubbed in Goldfinger, maybe he's talking about
    some isolated grunt or something.

    Frobe was dubbed in Goldfinger. Frobe spoke English poorly and read his
    lines too slowly attempting to say them phonetically, so he was dubbed
    by Michael Collins. But Saltzman and Broccoli had lots of actors and
    actresses dubbed, even the ones whose English was perfectly fine, most notoriously Pedro Armendarez in From Russia With Love.

    There's the notoriety of Goldfinger getting banned in Israel because
    Frobe gave an interview in which he stated he had been a Nazi Party
    member for 8 years starting in 1929 but became disenchanted and left the
    party. While a party member, he hid two Jews from the Gestapo, a boy and
    his mother. The news story was edited, or the reporter elided Frobe's
    comments, so all that was published was the bit about his party
    membership. The son went to the Israeli embassy to state that Frobe had
    save him and his mother, which got Goldfinger distributed in Israel.

    https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/films/939270/James-Bond-Goldfinger-Gert-Frobe-Nazi-Sean-Connery-Israel-movie-ban

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  • From anim8rfsk@21:1/5 to Adam H. Kerman on Tue Jun 8 07:29:08 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.tv

    Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
    super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:

    He also dubbed the voice of Gert Frobe as Baron Bomburst in the
    film Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. If you listen to Frobe in Goldfinger where >>> he used his real voice and his voice in Chitty, you can tell it was over >>> dubbed,

    ? I've always heard that the voice of Frobe (who reportedly didn't speak
    a word of English) was dubbed in Goldfinger, maybe he's talking about
    some isolated grunt or something.

    Frobe was dubbed in Goldfinger.

    Thank you for catching that, I forgot to mention it. That was a serious
    “what is Eisner’s agenda here” moment.


    Frobe spoke English poorly and read his
    lines too slowly attempting to say them phonetically, so he was dubbed
    by Michael Collins. But Saltzman and Broccoli had lots of actors and actresses dubbed, even the ones whose English was perfectly fine, most notoriously Pedro Armendarez in From Russia With Love.

    There's the notoriety of Goldfinger getting banned in Israel because
    Frobe gave an interview in which he stated he had been a Nazi Party
    member for 8 years starting in 1929 but became disenchanted and left the party. While a party member, he hid two Jews from the Gestapo, a boy and
    his mother. The news story was edited, or the reporter elided Frobe's comments, so all that was published was the bit about his party
    membership. The son went to the Israeli embassy to state that Frobe had
    save him and his mother, which got Goldfinger distributed in Israel.

    https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/films/939270/James-Bond-Goldfinger-Gert-Frobe-Nazi-Sean-Connery-Israel-movie-ban


    I had not heard that anecdote. Thank you.


    --
    “The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it’s still on my list.”

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  • From anim8rfsk@21:1/5 to Adam H. Kerman on Tue Jun 8 07:29:08 2021
    XPost: rec.arts.tv

    Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
    A Friend wrote:
    Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net> wrote:

    Here is the clincher. When I told Roger that during the second season, Arnaz
    joined the cast as an out of work bullfighter, Roger smiled and said that >>> Cuban SOB, no wonder their wasn't any money for raises, he planned on taking
    a fifth salary as an actor!

    Maybe, maybe not. I was around then, though, and Desi showing up on
    The Mothers-in-Law was a huge, huge story. It had been a while since
    he'd done the Lucy hour-longs, and people wanted to see him again.

    As I recall, the plot was that the mothers-in-law were trapped
    overnight in a department store that had closed, and when they tried to
    call the local cops, they somehow got Desi in Spain instead. They did
    another episode with Desi in which he visits the moms in America, but
    that episode wasn't nearly as good as the first.

    BTW the story about the raises (or lack of same) was in the papers at
    the time. Carmel did not come off well.

    Why would the show have had a five-year guarantee? I don't buy that.


    It happens. It seems unlikely in this case but it’s been known to happen
    when they’re trying to sign a major star for instance. And then when the show sucks they have to pay off some sort of penalty clause to get rid of
    it. A case in point is Bewitched. It became unwatchable when it got its
    new dick and just started recycling scripts which let you see what it was
    like with a real lead actor and without. But it had a multi year guarantee
    in which the network bought out with a series of bad TV movies.

    By the way, auto correct is insisting I don’t mean “multi“ and keeps trying
    to change it to “mufti“
    WTF?



    “The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it’s still on my list.”

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