• Direct Order origins?

    From J. Clarke@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 21 07:38:15 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    I was watching "Raised By Wolves" last night and the phrase "Direct
    Order" was used to instruct an android to do something it didn't want
    to do.

    The only other place I have seen that term used in that context is in
    Mark Stanley's "Freefall" web comic, where it is used not only with
    androids but with all AIs including organic ones.

    I don't recall seeing it elsewhere. Does anybody have an earlier
    usage?

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  • From Dimensional Traveler@21:1/5 to J. Clarke on Mon Feb 21 07:18:42 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 2/21/2022 4:38 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
    I was watching "Raised By Wolves" last night and the phrase "Direct
    Order" was used to instruct an android to do something it didn't want
    to do.

    The only other place I have seen that term used in that context is in
    Mark Stanley's "Freefall" web comic, where it is used not only with
    androids but with all AIs including organic ones.

    I don't recall seeing it elsewhere. Does anybody have an earlier
    usage?

    Its a military term (which I expect you know) so anything that involves military probably will use the phrase at some point.

    --
    I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
    dirty old man.

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  • From J. Clarke@21:1/5 to dtravel@sonic.net on Mon Feb 21 12:51:15 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 07:18:42 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
    <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

    On 2/21/2022 4:38 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
    I was watching "Raised By Wolves" last night and the phrase "Direct
    Order" was used to instruct an android to do something it didn't want
    to do.

    The only other place I have seen that term used in that context is in
    Mark Stanley's "Freefall" web comic, where it is used not only with
    androids but with all AIs including organic ones.

    I don't recall seeing it elsewhere. Does anybody have an earlier
    usage?

    Its a military term (which I expect you know) so anything that involves >military probably will use the phrase at some point.

    It's also a term of art in medicine. But neither the medical
    establishment nor the military are staffed with androids or AIs at
    this time. I'm curious about its history in that specific context.

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  • From Dimensional Traveler@21:1/5 to J. Clarke on Mon Feb 21 10:35:34 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 2/21/2022 9:51 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
    On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 07:18:42 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
    <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

    On 2/21/2022 4:38 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
    I was watching "Raised By Wolves" last night and the phrase "Direct
    Order" was used to instruct an android to do something it didn't want
    to do.

    The only other place I have seen that term used in that context is in
    Mark Stanley's "Freefall" web comic, where it is used not only with
    androids but with all AIs including organic ones.

    I don't recall seeing it elsewhere. Does anybody have an earlier
    usage?

    Its a military term (which I expect you know) so anything that involves
    military probably will use the phrase at some point.

    It's also a term of art in medicine. But neither the medical
    establishment nor the military are staffed with androids or AIs at
    this time. I'm curious about its history in that specific context.

    Then change "involves military" to "involves military androids or AIs".

    --
    I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
    dirty old man.

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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From J. Clarke@21:1/5 to dtravel@sonic.net on Mon Feb 21 17:07:40 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 10:35:34 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
    <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

    On 2/21/2022 9:51 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
    On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 07:18:42 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
    <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

    On 2/21/2022 4:38 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
    I was watching "Raised By Wolves" last night and the phrase "Direct
    Order" was used to instruct an android to do something it didn't want
    to do.

    The only other place I have seen that term used in that context is in
    Mark Stanley's "Freefall" web comic, where it is used not only with
    androids but with all AIs including organic ones.

    I don't recall seeing it elsewhere. Does anybody have an earlier
    usage?

    Its a military term (which I expect you know) so anything that involves
    military probably will use the phrase at some point.

    It's also a term of art in medicine. But neither the medical
    establishment nor the military are staffed with androids or AIs at
    this time. I'm curious about its history in that specific context.

    Then change "involves military" to "involves military androids or AIs".

    So do you have an actual example that predates "Freefall"?

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  • From Dorothy J Heydt@21:1/5 to jclarke.873638@gmail.com on Tue Feb 22 05:20:59 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    In article <bt171hljuqivr80r0obd5afiocuutevmgi@4ax.com>,
    J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
    I was watching "Raised By Wolves" last night and the phrase "Direct
    Order" was used to instruct an android to do something it didn't want
    to do.

    The only other place I have seen that term used in that context is in
    Mark Stanley's "Freefall" web comic, where it is used not only with
    androids but with all AIs including organic ones.

    I don't recall seeing it elsewhere. Does anybody have an earlier
    usage?

    In the webcomic _Freefall_, humans command robots and other AIs
    by surrounding them with the phrases "Direct order:" and "End
    order." I borrowed them for a similar use in my space opera that
    currently nears completion but will probably never see print.

    --
    Dorothy J. Heydt
    Vallejo, California
    djheydt at gmail dot com
    Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

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  • From smw@21:1/5 to Dorothy J Heydt on Tue Feb 22 08:09:30 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    In <r7oxIz.21wn@kithrup.com> djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:

    In the webcomic _Freefall_, humans command robots and other AIs
    by surrounding them with the phrases "Direct order:" and "End
    order."

    ...the very best example of which has to be this one:

    http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff1800/fc01780.htm

    Note that the everyone on the right side of the fifth panel is compelled
    to follow direct orders; in addition to Florence and Helix (the obvious
    robot standing beside her), the three police officers are also robots.

    This is the culmination of a sequence which begins 33 strips earlier, at

    http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff1800/fc01747.htm

    ...but I think it stands well enough on its own. :-)

    - Steven
    --
    ___________________________________________________________________________ Steven Winikoff | "The man who has ceased to learn ought
    Montreal, QC, Canada | not to be allowed to wander around
    smw@smwonline.ca | loose in these dangerous days."
    http://smwonline.ca |
    | - M. M. Coady

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  • From J. Clarke@21:1/5 to All on Tue Feb 22 07:23:44 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 08:09:30 -0000 (UTC), smw <smw@mort.smwonline.ca>
    wrote:

    In <r7oxIz.21wn@kithrup.com> djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:

    In the webcomic _Freefall_, humans command robots and other AIs
    by surrounding them with the phrases "Direct order:" and "End
    order."

    ...the very best example of which has to be this one:

    http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff1800/fc01780.htm

    Note that the everyone on the right side of the fifth panel is compelled
    to follow direct orders; in addition to Florence and Helix (the obvious
    robot standing beside her), the three police officers are also robots.

    This is the culmination of a sequence which begins 33 strips earlier, at

    http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff1800/fc01747.htm

    ...but I think it stands well enough on its own. :-)

    The thing is, I was wondering if it had been used anywhere in the
    context of humans giving orders to robots or AIs _before_ "Freefall".

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  • From smw@21:1/5 to J. Clarke on Tue Feb 22 17:47:28 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    In <kcl91hh1tqjnjhot42djlu5k3h16g1vfgb@4ax.com>
    J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:

    The thing is, I was wondering if it had been used anywhere in the
    context of humans giving orders to robots or AIs _before_ "Freefall".

    I know, and I'm sorry I can't help with that. I just thought that cartoon
    was far too good not to share.

    - Steven
    --
    ___________________________________________________________________________ Steven Winikoff | Sometimes the questions are complicated
    Montreal, QC, Canada | and the answers are simple.
    smw@smwonline.ca |
    http://smwonline.ca | - Dr. Seuss

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  • From Michael F. Stemper@21:1/5 to All on Tue Feb 22 14:02:58 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    In <kcl91hh1tqjnjhot42djlu5k3h16g1vfgb@4ax.com>
    J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:

    The thing is, I was wondering if it had been used anywhere in the
    context of humans giving orders to robots or AIs _before_ "Freefall".

    I just came across the term "direct order" in Vonnegut's _The
    Sirens of Titan_ (1959), but it's a Martian giving an order
    to a human conscripted into the Martian army.

    So it's an older use of the term, and in SF.

    Oh, and the human has just come out of a mind-wipe treatment,
    so he's almost a robot. And the order is to strangle his best
    friend. (Shades of _The Manchurian Candidate_!)


    --
    Michael F. Stemper
    A preposition is something you should never end a sentence with.

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  • From Titus G@21:1/5 to Michael F. Stemper on Wed Feb 23 16:10:10 2022
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 23/02/22 09:02, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
    In <kcl91hh1tqjnjhot42djlu5k3h16g1vfgb@4ax.com>
    J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:

    The thing is, I was wondering if it had been used anywhere in the
    context of humans giving orders to robots or AIs _before_ "Freefall".

    I just came across the term "direct order" in Vonnegut's _The
    Sirens of Titan_ (1959), but it's a Martian giving an order
    to a human conscripted into the Martian army.

    So it's an older use of the term, and in SF.

    Oh, and the human has just come out of a mind-wipe treatment,
    so he's almost a robot. And the order is to strangle his best
    friend. (Shades of _The Manchurian Candidate_!)

    .
    Vonnegut's _The Sirens of Titan_ was once my favourite book but much of
    it is now forgotten unfortunately. I own less than 50 paper books that I
    have bought for myself and Sirens is one of them, a cheap US Dell
    edition, $2.25 ($2.75 in Canada). I have just got a copy for the Kindle
    so will re-read it as I suspect it will pass the test of time, (fingers crossed).

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