• Um....where is everybody?

    From bobthrollop@gmail.com@21:1/5 to Johnny Tindalos on Wed Dec 12 14:38:59 2018
    On Tuesday, August 21, 2018 at 10:50:41 PM UTC-7, Johnny Tindalos wrote:
    Hullo rasfc'ers, where did everyone go? Have we changed venue?

    I'm dropping back in after a hiatus of nearly ten years...I stopped posting because I'd just run out of things to say. I never did learn how to write, either.

    I took up one of my old story beginnings last week and started working on it again, and I got bogged down about two pages in. This time, I identified a problem in my style that I never noticed before, and right now I'm thinking about how to overcome it.

    The problem is that everything I write is from exactly the same point of view and when the story requires a change, I can't do it. I've been looking over whatever fiction books happened to be sitting around and studying, much more carefully than ever
    before, how different point of view effects are achieved.

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  • From Joy Beeson@21:1/5 to bobthrollop@gmail.com on Wed Dec 12 22:36:24 2018
    On Wed, 12 Dec 2018 14:38:59 -0800 (PST), bobthrollop@gmail.com wrote:

    The problem is that everything I write is from exactly the same point of vi= ew and when the story requires a change, I can't do it. I've been looking = over whatever fiction books happened to be sitting around and studying, muc= h more carefully than ever before, how different point of view effects are = achieved. =20

    I've nothing helpful to say, except "start reading Patricia Wrede's
    blog < http://pcwrede.com/blog/ > right now." I think you can archive
    binge.

    But this reminds me of way back before I found out that I'm a
    non-fiction writer, and my writing class and I took "Two Broken Toys"
    through half a dozen re-writes, me muttering to myself all the while
    "This is Kossel's story, and ought to be told from Kossel's point of
    view -- but Kossel doesn't *have* a point of view!"

    Finally I gave up and wrote the story from the viewpoint of a man who
    lives in an endless "now", and the class acclaimed it as a tour de
    force -- but nobody else can figure out what is going on.

    Well, *I* like it.

    And some of my non-fiction has gotten fan letters.

    ----------------------------------------------------

    Maybe I do have a suggestion after all.

    I used to have an inhibition that prevented me from buying paperbacks.
    One day I got fed up with that and rode to the Book House determined
    to fill my pannier clear to the top. I couldn't find quite that many
    books that I wanted, but it broke the inhibition.

    So maybe you can brute-force the problem: write a paragraph with two
    or more people in it, then let each person tell what happened in his
    own words, then re-write from every point of view that you can think
    of: tight third, camera eye, fly-on-the-wall, unreliable narrator,
    little green man in orbit watching a surveillance camera, . . .

    --
    Joy Beeson
    joy beeson at comcast dot net
    http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

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  • From Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)@21:1/5 to bobthrollop@gmail.com on Fri Dec 14 06:58:35 2018
    On 12/12/18 5:38 PM, bobthrollop@gmail.com wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 21, 2018 at 10:50:41 PM UTC-7, Johnny Tindalos wrote:
    Hullo rasfc'ers, where did everyone go? Have we changed venue?

    I'm dropping back in after a hiatus of nearly ten years...I stopped posting because I'd just run out of things to say. I never did learn how to write, either.

    I took up one of my old story beginnings last week and started working on it again, and I got bogged down about two pages in. This time, I identified a problem in my style that I never noticed before, and right now I'm thinking about how to overcome
    it.

    The problem is that everything I write is from exactly the same point of view and when the story requires a change, I can't do it. I've been looking over whatever fiction books happened to be sitting around and studying, much more carefully than ever
    before, how different point of view effects are achieved.



    Whether that's a PROBLEM depends on what that point of view is, I guess. I mean, the entirety of any first-person novel, of which there
    are many, is told from that one character's point of view. There's never
    a change of point of view, because that's the POINT of the first-person
    novel; you see things as they are seen from the one main character's (or sometimes a sidekick of the main character) point of view.

    I always think of "Point of View" as "where is the camera and microphone located?". In First Person, it's located right on the head of
    the main character. You can see only what they see, know only what they
    know, etc. In Third Person, the camera is focused on the current PoV
    character, but from a remove.





    --
    Sea Wasp
    /^\
    ;;;
    Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
    http://seawasp.dreamwidth.org

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  • From A. Tina Hall@21:1/5 to All on Fri Dec 14 16:47:00 2018
    On 14.12.18, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com>
    wrote:
    On 12/12/18 5:38 PM, bobthrollop@gmail.com wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 21, 2018 at 10:50:41 PM UTC-7, Johnny Tindalos
    wrote:


    Hullo rasfc'ers, where did everyone go? Have we changed venue?

    I've been wondering that, too.

    Maybe I should un-ignore some folks, if I can find them in the list, to repopulate my view of rasfc with the few that do turn up.

    .. Seems Johnny's message just got lost because I forgot to get new
    ones when he posted it.

    I'm hanging out on Steam, playing games, missing the ability to ramble
    on about my stories. It really helps with solving problems, even if none
    of the suggestions are applicable, just the rambling gets my mind back
    on the right track. (I distinctly remember how I finally found a way to
    get rid of my defined-as-irremovable top two evil overlords, for
    example.)

    The third book of the S&E still needs more text. Some rambling in a
    group on Steam helped with a bit, but that was only a short thread.

    So, anyone here up to bearing me think out loud, offering the odd
    comment? (Please no arguing, I grew allergic to that here and in rasfw
    all those years ago. Of course, some statements of "this HAS to be THAT
    way" inspired me to do it NOT THAT way. :)) )

    The problem is that everything I write is from exactly the same
    point of view and when the story requires a change, I can't do it.
    I've been looking over whatever fiction books happened to be sitting
    around and studying, much more carefully than ever before, how
    different point of view effects are achieved.

    I have every point of view be their own "scene", even if it's connecting
    right to a previous bit of text, I separate it and then write from the
    new (third person) point of view.

    Might not work if you're switching back and forth a lot within even the
    same conversation.

    I vaguely remember a viewpoint shift in some Dune book, which I always
    thought had multiple third person in separate scenes too. (I forgot
    whether I just came across it or someone pointed it out here or in
    rasfw.) If you have that lying around you could have a look. The scene I remember was in a greenhouse, or similar, between Paul and Jessica, I
    think. (The guy might have been someone else, my memory is vague.)

    Whether that's a PROBLEM depends on what that point of view is, I
    guess. I mean, the entirety of any first-person novel, of which there
    are many, is told from that one character's point of view. There's
    never a change of point of view, because that's the POINT of the
    first-person novel; you see things as they are seen from the one main character's (or sometimes a sidekick of the main character) point of
    view.

    I wouldn't know, and wouldn't want to know, how to even do that. :)
    Writing as 'I' would just feel wrong.

    I distinctly remember that in my memory your Digital Knight had been
    converted to third person, too, and I think you pointed out that that
    was wrong.

    I always think of "Point of View" as "where is the camera and
    microphone located?". In First Person, it's located right on the head
    of the main character. You can see only what they see, know only what
    they know, etc. In Third Person, the camera is focused on the current
    PoV character, but from a remove.

    I'm in pretty close with my third person. It's he, and she, and it,
    right inside their head, what they think, feel, see, do. It's just not
    'I', because, well, it's not me, after all, it's them.


    Glad to see some life here. Would be cool if we could keep that up. :)


    --
    "This was your idea." Kaymen pointed out.
    "Damn. Isn't there anyone else to blame?"
    "Oh, I think I could come up with a very short list, and blame everything
    else on the same name as well." -- Magic Earth I: Getting Caught


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  • From Joy Beeson@21:1/5 to A_Tina_Hall@kruemel.org on Fri Dec 14 22:50:47 2018
    On Fri, 14 Dec 2018 16:47:00 +0100, "A. Tina Hall"
    <A_Tina_Hall@kruemel.org> wrote:

    So, anyone here up to bearing me think out loud, offering the odd
    comment?

    Ramble away. We've all got "mark read" filters we can deploy if we
    get bored.

    On this group, wetware filters work fine.

    --
    joy beeson at comcast dot net
    http://wlweather.net/PAGESEW/
    The above message is a Usenet post.
    I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.

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  • From Brian Pickrell@21:1/5 to Brian Pickrell on Fri Dec 14 20:13:29 2018
    On Friday, December 14, 2018 at 7:40:04 PM UTC-8, Brian Pickrell wrote:
    ...it
    occurred to me that I always use the same point-of-view and voice to
    write things like this and it really doesn't work.

    The point of view I speak of is one that's in the third person, a person noticing details of the place she is in, events as they happen, and few to no thoughts of her own about any of it. (I've decided that for my purposes the definition of point of view
    means not only where or in whose head is the "camera" located, but how does the chronology flow and what higher-level conclusions are involved.) My lead character E. is on a journey from A to B in a foreign countryside, and I thought I'd set the scene
    for the next action by describing the trip. This sometimes works, but here it's a boring travelogue.

    Why did I put my character E. in such a scene if it's not interesting? Well, I'm asking myself that too. Part of the reason is that I thought it was going to be interesting. Also, the general plot outline has her preparing for an easy battle and then
    finding that it's going to be much harder than she thought; here is where I establish the easy part.

    I'd like to summarize more and make these descriptions get to the point, but it feels out of character every time I try to do so. E's personality is a tricky mix of passivity and action that I haven't mastered. Right now she should not be too observant.
    More specifically, she's travelling with a character B. who's a story instigator, and I need to work out why, with all this time on their hands, she doesn't come out and ask him directly why he's involving her in his cockamamie plans. I currently
    envision B. as a detached character whose goals must always remain cryptic, something like Gandalf.

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  • From Brian Pickrell@21:1/5 to All on Fri Dec 14 19:40:02 2018
    On Friday, December 14, 2018 at 3:58:39 AM UTC-8, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
    On 12/12/18 5:38 PM, bobthrollop@gmail.com wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 21, 2018 at 10:50:41 PM UTC-7, Johnny Tindalos wrote:
    Hullo rasfc'ers, where did everyone go? Have we changed venue?

    I'm dropping back in after a hiatus of nearly ten years...I stopped posting because I'd just run out of things to say. I never did learn how to write, either.

    I took up one of my old story beginnings last week and started working on it again, and I got bogged down about two pages in. This time, I identified a problem in my style that I never noticed before...

    Thanks for the suggestions so far, although I'm not really asking for
    advice here. Once one gets the notion of points of view--and we've
    certainly discussed it to death here--I think the rest is something
    one really has to work out for oneself. So, if I don't want to discuss
    my story, why bring it up in a discussion group? Well, I'm glad to
    discuss it, but I don't necessarily want advice.

    My motivation is that I'm trying to make myself look at the work in
    progress through other eyes. The scene I'm lately having difficulty
    with--why is it in the story, and what needs to happen to E. in the
    scene?

    I'm struggling to describe just what needs to happen for story
    purposes; how it will play out; and consequently, how it will be
    described. And make all that consistent with the evolving character
    arcs.

    I decided that my heroine needs a reason to get involved in the
    struggles that follow. This is about the third chapter, and the
    second plot twist. She was introduced to a foreign world in the first,
    and in the second she grew dissatisfied with her mundane life. Now,
    she gets a chance to go back to that world and a cause to fight for.


    So...what does that look like? I just made up a new location for her
    to visit. She'll meet some good friends there. The Chapter 3 scene
    is not the same place as Chapter 1. But I just made the new place up
    and I'm having trouble conceptualizing what it's even like. But what
    really set me off is that when I started to write the description, it
    occurred to me that I always use the same point-of-view and voice to
    write things like this and it really doesn't work.

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  • From A. Tina Hall@21:1/5 to jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid on Sun Dec 16 01:53:00 2018
    <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
    On 14 Dec 2018 "A. Tina Hall" <A_Tina_Hall@kruemel.org> wrote:

    So, anyone here up to bearing me think out loud, offering the odd
    comment?

    Ramble away. We've all got "mark read" filters we can deploy if we
    get bored.

    LOL. Encouraging. :)

    Please do offer the odd comment, even if only to let me know you're not
    bored yet.

    Even suggestions that won't work can help a lot.

    --
    "Hah! A joke!"
    "Must be the influence of the bad company I can't get rid of."
    -- Karja & Sil, Magic Earth 7/6
    Excerpts at: <http://home.htp-tel.de/fkoerper/ath/athintro.htm>


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  • From A. Tina Hall@21:1/5 to bobthrollop@gmail.com on Sun Dec 16 02:03:00 2018
    On 16.12.18, Brian Pickrell <bobthrollop@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 12/12/18 5:38 PM, bobthrollop@gmail.com wrote:

    I took up one of my old story beginnings last week and started
    working on it again, and I got bogged down about two pages in.
    This time, I identified a problem in my style that I never noticed
    before...

    Thanks for the suggestions so far, although I'm not really asking for
    advice here.

    Just thinking out loud too? :)

    I know talking about it can help, will comments be welcome, or would you
    rather not have replies?

    [...]

    So...what does that look like? I just made up a new location for her
    to visit. She'll meet some good friends there. The Chapter 3 scene
    is not the same place as Chapter 1. But I just made the new place
    up and I'm having trouble conceptualizing what it's even like. But
    what really set me off is that when I started to write the
    description, it occurred to me that I always use the same
    point-of-view and voice to write things like this and it really
    doesn't work.

    The obvious thing would be to look at it through one of the friends she
    meets.

    Finding a new viewpoint, even when I know where, was/is one of my
    problems in the bit I got stuck, too, but the bigger problem is 'what',
    though I got some spark there now, just need to find out a specific
    thing before I can really continue that. I'll make my own post with
    those ramblings though.

    Good luck with finding the right approach. :)

    --
    Arentus threw up his hands. "How crazy do you have to be to think you're the ultimate power and everyone has to jump at your whim?" He looked at Ranes as
    if expecting an answer.
    Ranes grinned. "How crazy are you?" -- Magic Earth II: Without Heart


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  • From Joy Beeson@21:1/5 to A_Tina_Hall@kruemel.org on Sat Dec 15 23:35:34 2018
    On Sun, 16 Dec 2018 01:53:00 +0100, "A. Tina Hall"
    <A_Tina_Hall@kruemel.org> wrote:

    Even suggestions that won't work can help a lot.

    Comments that are completely off base are quite useful, once you
    figure out why they are off base, or how the reader came to think that
    your far-future war story took place in peacetime in the distant past.

    --
    Joy Beeson
    joy beeson at comcast dot net
    http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

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  • From A. Tina Hall@21:1/5 to jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid on Tue Dec 18 01:23:00 2018
    On 18.12.18, Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
    16 Dec 2018 "A. Tina Hall" <A_Tina_Hall@kruemel.org> wrote:

    Even suggestions that won't work can help a lot.

    Comments that are completely off base are quite useful, once you
    figure out why they are off base,

    I tend to know why something is off base, but it still puts my mind in
    the story. Thus any comments are welcome. (Well, maybe not 'this is
    crap, go away'. :) )

    I wonder if people are already bored with my (admittedly a bit large)
    rambling in the other post. ;P

    or how the reader came to think that your far-future war story took
    place in peacetime in the distant past.

    I'd like to ask a reader, but for that I'd need a beta-reader.

    Friend on Steam actually read the two big things, and commented on the
    ME, didn't get round to comment on the S&E, too busy.

    She said I should publish the ME. Even if I wanted to (if I got money
    for it), I don't think I'd even be able to find out how exactly, and
    then do all that work.

    (I'm by now pensioned early, for health reasons.)

    Maybe if Steam ever decides to add books. I know that place. But I would
    surely get a headache even trying to find out how to publish something
    on it.

    --
    [horns] "I tried them when they first made it up, but no one got the joke."
    -- Arentus, Magic Earth I: Getting Caught Excerpts at: <http://home.htp-tel.de/fkoerper/ath/athintro.htm>


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  • From NoReplies@jymes.com@21:1/5 to A_Tina_Hall@kruemel.org on Mon Dec 17 20:11:44 2018
    On Sun, 16 Dec 2018 01:53:00 +0100, "A. Tina Hall"
    <A_Tina_Hall@kruemel.org> wrote:

    Even suggestions that won't work can help a lot.

    For me, suggestions generally fall into three categories:

    1) Straightforward answer to the problem. This is very, very, very
    rare, but it can happen.

    2) Worse than useless. If I say "this is the situation, what can
    happen next?" and someone says "that situation stinks, it should be
    +this+ way." Yeah, I'm going to delete 30,000 words because someone
    thinks my 50-word synopsis of it doesn't parallel their writing enough
    to be readable.

    3) Wrong but great. Most suggestions fall into this category. Thinking
    about why it's wrong makes me dig deeper into aspects I was
    overlooking or hadn't delved into very deeply. It gives me a deeper
    perspective of the world or characters. Even if that perspective
    doesn't yield an immediate answer to the problem, it helps frame the
    region of space which holds the answer.

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  • From Brian Pickrell@21:1/5 to A. Tina Hall on Tue Dec 18 06:07:03 2018
    On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 6:48:12 PM UTC-8, A. Tina Hall wrote:
    On 16.12.18, Brian Pickrell wrote:
    On 12/12/18 5:38 PM,

    I took up one of my old story beginnings last week and started
    working on it again, and I got bogged down about two pages in.
    This time, I identified a problem in my style that I never noticed
    before...

    Thanks for the suggestions so far, although I'm not really asking for advice here.

    Just thinking out loud too? :)

    I know talking about it can help, will comments be welcome, or would you rather not have replies?


    Oh, it can't hurt.


    What I have actually been doing, since the last posts, is reading Virginia Woolf (Of course! you say--why didn't he think of that a long time ago?) Posting here prompted me to check in on Patricia Wrede's blog, and she mentioned Ursula K. Le Guin's _
    Steering the Craft_ which gave an approving citation of a character study from a Woolf novel, so I got a completely different one of her novels because it was available at Half Price Books...Virginia Woolf has her strengths and weaknesses, which may or
    may not ever bear on anything I do. At least her near-magical way of setting a scene is less magical now that I'm starting to understand it.

    A follow-on question to ask myself is: why did I begin to care about the style of authors like Woolf when I never did before?

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  • From A. Tina Hall@21:1/5 to NoReplies@jymes.com on Tue Dec 18 19:53:00 2018
    On 18.12.18, NoReplies@jymes.com <NoReplies@jymes.com> wrote:
    On 16 Dec 2018 "A. Tina Hall" <A_Tina_Hall@kruemel.org> wrote:

    Even suggestions that won't work can help a lot.

    For me, suggestions generally fall into three categories:

    1) Straightforward answer to the problem. This is very, very, very
    rare, but it can happen.

    Going by the meteor joke suggestion I got, they might happen
    accidentally too. :)

    2) Worse than useless. If I say "this is the situation, what can
    happen next?" and someone says "that situation stinks, it should be
    +this+ way." Yeah, I'm going to delete 30,000 words because someone
    thinks my 50-word synopsis of it doesn't parallel their writing
    enough to be readable.

    Reminds me of people telling me what to put into my vampire story, when
    I just wanted to know how to write better (as in arranging the words).

    Also, 50 words not getting across 30k words (or in my case, 1000 words
    not getting across 400k words - I do ramble, I know) sounds very
    familiar. I remember arguing against stuff people made up based on what
    I'd said, rather than taking what I'd said as fact. (How can you do the
    former when you don't believe the latter?)

    Oh well. That's people. <giggle>

    3) Wrong but great. Most suggestions fall into this category.
    Thinking about why it's wrong makes me dig deeper into aspects I was overlooking or hadn't delved into very deeply. It gives me a deeper perspective of the world or characters. Even if that perspective
    doesn't yield an immediate answer to the problem, it helps frame the
    region of space which holds the answer.

    For me, it tends to touch stuff I already know, but once I get rambling
    I might find an answer myself, as long as I have something to ramble
    'against'. (Not rant, just something to reply to.) I'm easily
    distracted, or (due to past discussions) feel the need to point out in
    advance that this or that wouldn't work, and then get an idea of what to
    do instead.

    In the end, there _is_ something very helpful in the replies, no matter
    what kind. :) Can try to treat even the 2nd option as if it were the
    3rd, after all.

    --
    "Boy, you should learn not to believe everything some nasty Shan
    tells you. We aren't known to be all that honest."
    -- Thalos, Magic Earth VI
    Excerpts at: <http://home.htp-tel.de/fkoerper/ath/athintro.htm>


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  • From A. Tina Hall@21:1/5 to bobthrollop@gmail.com on Tue Dec 18 19:56:00 2018
    On 18.12.18, Brian Pickrell <bobthrollop@gmail.com> wrote:
    On December 15, 2018 Tina Hall wrote:
    On 16.12.18, Brian Pickrell wrote:

    Thanks for the suggestions so far, although I'm not really asking
    for advice here.

    Just thinking out loud too? :)

    I know talking about it can help, will comments be welcome, or would
    you rather not have replies?

    Oh, it can't hurt.

    Great. :)

    What I have actually been doing, since the last posts, is reading
    Virginia Woolf (Of course! you say--why didn't he think of that a
    long time ago?) Posting here prompted me to check in on Patricia
    Wrede's blog, and she mentioned Ursula K. Le Guin's _Steering the
    Craft_ which gave an approving citation of a character study from a
    Woolf novel, so I got a completely different one of her novels
    because it was available at Half Price Books...Virginia Woolf has her strengths and weaknesses, which may or may not ever bear on anything
    I do. At least her near-magical way of setting a scene is less
    magical now that I'm starting to understand it.

    Interesting. Not that I know any of those books. :) It's cool though
    that you found something that helps.

    A follow-on question to ask myself is: why did I begin to care about
    the style of authors like Woolf when I never did before?

    Some subconscious part of your mind says it's needed for the story?

    --
    "They didn't want him as court jester. Perhaps you would just
    keep him, and I'll get a room in the city."
    -- Sil about Karja, Magic Earth 7/6
    Excerpts at: <http://home.htp-tel.de/fkoerper/ath/athintro.htm>


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  • From Brian P.@21:1/5 to A. Tina Hall on Tue Dec 18 18:29:11 2018
    On Tuesday, December 18, 2018 at 12:48:16 PM UTC-8, A. Tina Hall wrote:
    On 18.12.18, Brian Pickrell <bobthrollop # gmail.com> wrote:
    On December 15, 2018 Tina Hall wrote:
    On 16.12.18, Brian Pickrell wrote:

    Thanks for the suggestions so far, although I'm not really asking
    for advice here.

    Just thinking out loud too? :)

    I know talking about it can help, will comments be welcome, or would
    you rather not have replies?

    Oh, it can't hurt.

    Great. :)

    What I have actually been doing, since the last posts, is reading
    Virginia Woolf (Of course! you say--why didn't he think of that a
    long time ago?) Posting here prompted me to check in on Patricia
    Wrede's blog, and she mentioned Ursula K. Le Guin's _Steering the
    Craft_ which gave an approving citation of a character study from a
    Woolf novel, so I got a completely different one of her novels
    because it was available at Half Price Books...Virginia Woolf has her strengths and weaknesses, which may or may not ever bear on anything
    I do. At least her near-magical way of setting a scene is less
    magical now that I'm starting to understand it.

    Interesting. Not that I know any of those books. :) It's cool though
    that you found something that helps.

    I'm 70 pages into her first novel, _The Voyage Out_ (1915). Two passages from her other novels were cited in the Le Guin book; Woolf describes the contents of a bedroom in a way that leaps deftly from item to item and from thought to thought, throwing
    in the "omniscient" narrator's judgments at times, resulting in a pretty potent portrait of the room's resident's personality without ever mentioning him in the flesh.

    The current book is much the same. It catches every glance and fleeting thought as a suite of characters talk, jumping into each one's head at times. She seems to notice everyone and is exquisitely sensitive to their thoughts. Could I do the same and
    sustain it for an entire novel?

    The catch is that the author doesn't notice anything else. There's a slight bit of physical description of the characters, and none of their surroundings. The setting is on board a ship, and there's zero mention of the ship, or the crew, or anything
    outside of the two staterooms and saloon where the conversations take place. There have been a couple of meals, but no idea where the food came from; at one point someone notices that the ship has started moving, but that's it--I don't even know if it's
    by sail or steam. I remember once reading a comment about sword-and-sorcery novels to the effect that the world of the story seemed to end six feet from the path the heroes were on; this book reads exactly like that.

    Conclusion: this sort of description won't do for any story that depends on setting or action, i.e. I'm not missing much.

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  • From A. Tina Hall@21:1/5 to bobthrollop@gmail.com on Wed Dec 19 13:19:00 2018
    On 19.12.18, Brian P. <bobthrollop@gmail.com> wrote:
    On December 18, 2018 A. Tina Hall wrote:
    On 18.12.18, Brian Pickrell <bobthrollop # gmail.com> wrote:
    On December 15, 2018 Tina Hall wrote:

    What I have actually been doing, since the last posts, is reading
    Virginia Woolf

    [...]

    I remember once reading a comment about sword-and-sorcery novels to
    the effect that the world of the story seemed to end six feet from the
    path the heroes were on; this book reads exactly like that.

    LOL. Sounds very strange, though. And that's from someone who doesn't
    like lengthy descriptions. I add some environment and scenery and even
    clothes, when I feel it needs to be mentioned. (Or rather, feeling that mentioning it is the right thing to do.)

    I'm confused though. Up there you said there's a description of items in
    a room, and then that there's barely any mention of things outside the characters.

    Conclusion: this sort of description won't do for any story that
    depends on setting or action, i.e. I'm not missing much.

    Hehe. You could still try for a bit of the looks inside the characters,
    find your own way to make it fit into with what you need.

    --
    The duke turned his head to look at Thalos. "You're creepy."
    He grinned. "Now you sound like one of my citizens who actually know me."
    -- Magic Earth IV: Seeing Far Excerpts at: <http://home.htp-tel.de/fkoerper/ath/athintro.htm>


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  • From Brian P.@21:1/5 to Brian P. on Sat Dec 22 10:06:05 2018
    On Friday, December 14, 2018 at 7:40:04 PM UTC-8, Brian P. wrote:

    [...]
    My motivation is that I'm trying to make myself look at the work in
    progress through other eyes. The scene I'm lately having difficulty with--why is it in the story, and what needs to happen to E. in the
    scene?

    I'm struggling to describe just what needs to happen for story
    purposes; how it will play out; and consequently, how it will be
    described. And make all that consistent with the evolving character
    arcs.

    I decided that my heroine needs a reason to get involved in the
    struggles that follow. This is about the third chapter, and the
    second plot twist. She was introduced to a foreign world in the first,
    and in the second she grew dissatisfied with her mundane life. Now,
    she gets a chance to go back to that world and a cause to fight for.


    So...what does that look like? I just made up a new location for her
    to visit. She'll meet some good friends there. The Chapter 3 scene
    is not the same place as Chapter 1. But I just made the new place up
    and I'm having trouble conceptualizing what it's even like. But what
    really set me off is that when I started to write the description, it occurred to me that I always use the same point-of-view and voice to
    write things like this and it really doesn't work.

    More thinking out loud about Chapter 3.

    I've rethought the "what needs to happen" plan for Chapter 3 to be more strategic. E. will still "meet some friends," but before she can connect emotionally, she needs to let her guard down as completely as possible. I'm going to tell her that this is
    a short vacation, perhaps just a weekend, from her regular life and she can just lay back and enjoy the luxury. There's also a plum job for her to do when she feels like it, something that's not much work but depends on the nerdy interests^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^
    H^H^unique skills that only she has; she'll be a hero when it's finished. The mentor figure B. will be on hand to oversee things just in case. (No chance of anything going wrong with that plan, no, sir! This is all going to go like clockwork...)

    So now, instead of the flat farmlands and boring houses that first popped into my head, I'm putting together an idealized vacation spot for her to drop in to. It starts as the sort of paradise that's implied in travel brochures and cruise ship packages:
    warm weather, luxurious lodgings with plentiful servants, beautiful scenery. Shopping and other idle-time activities like massages are there too, although as a Midwestern girl E. isn't too comfortable with throwing money around.

    Further in, she'll meet the fascinating local culture and history as well as the good companions you'd like on a perfect vacation. But those things can't just be made up on the spot; they have to actually BE interesting. They're the actual background
    and characters of the story.

    ---
    One thing about this paradise that's going to keep bugging me, though: it's always driven me crazy the way that characters in action movies can get dumped in a foreign country with no preparation, and somehow never lack for a place to stay and money to
    live on. Now I'm going to be guilty of the same thing.

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  • From A. Tina Hall@21:1/5 to bobthrollop@gmail.com on Sun Dec 23 01:32:00 2018
    On 23.12.18, Brian P. <bobthrollop@gmail.com> wrote:

    More thinking out loud about Chapter 3.

    I've rethought the "what needs to happen" plan for Chapter 3 to be
    more strategic. E. will still "meet some friends," but before she
    can connect emotionally, she needs to let her guard down as
    completely as possible. I'm going to tell her that this is a short
    vacation, perhaps just a weekend, from her regular life and she can
    just lay back and enjoy the luxury.

    It's always fascinating to see the concept of talking to one's
    characters. :)

    [...]
    (No chance of anything going wrong with that plan, no, sir! This is
    all going to go like clockwork...)

    LOL, of course!

    So now, instead of the flat farmlands and boring houses that first
    popped into my head, I'm putting together an idealized vacation spot
    for her to drop in to.

    Reminds me of the one trip one of my characters is having, but he's
    already landed near the farms. Plus there's a reason, and it might not
    be that boring. :)

    It starts as the sort of paradise that's implied in travel brochures
    and cruise ship packages: warm weather, luxurious lodgings with
    plentiful servants, beautiful scenery. Shopping and other idle-time activities like massages are there too, although as a Midwestern girl
    E. isn't too comfortable with throwing money around.

    My mind can't help comparing that to the characters I want to continue
    the story of, and it stands out how very human yours is. :) (Or how much
    mine are not, they'd not know what to do with any of that.)

    Not to get too distracted, it sounds like a good idea. Certainly draws
    an image in my mind. :)

    Further in, she'll meet the fascinating local culture and history as
    well as the good companions you'd like on a perfect vacation. But
    those things can't just be made up on the spot; they have to actually
    BE interesting. They're the actual background and characters of the
    story.

    Hm, depends on how you write. I'm best with making up on the spot, which
    is why I'm so stuck right now. :)

    Planning in advance, how do you do that, do you make notes? Draw charts?
    Just imagine it in your head? Something else?

    -+-
    One thing about this paradise that's going to keep bugging me,
    though: it's always driven me crazy the way that characters in
    action movies can get dumped in a foreign country with no
    preparation, and somehow never lack for a place to stay and money to
    live on. Now I'm going to be guilty of the same thing.

    Can't she have won the trip, or some mysterious source gifted it to her?

    Is there someone who wants her to go there, and thus arranged for it in
    the most inconspicious way you can think of?

    (Apart from you, I mean. :) )

    --
    "Did you make a mistake when you cut off your end of the tie and
    somehow swapped identities with Thalos?"
    Arentus grinned. "Maybe you and I did."
    -- Senar and Arentus, Magic Earth IV: Seeing Far


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  • From Brian P.@21:1/5 to A. Tina Hall on Sun Dec 23 04:56:06 2018
    On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 6:48:12 PM UTC-8, A. Tina Hall wrote:
    On 23.12.18, Brian P. wrote:
    [...]
    My mind can't help comparing that to the characters I want to continue
    the story of, and it stands out how very human yours is. :) (Or how much mine are not, they'd not know what to do with any of that.)

    Not to get too distracted, it sounds like a good idea. Certainly draws
    an image in my mind. :)

    Don't try to adapt my ideas too literally. If you're writing a grand festival sequence, ask yourself what your characters _expect_ a grand festival to be like in the abstract, and then invent details to make it happen like that, only better--or not. (
    Is it traditional to meet new relatives? To hear grander music than is available during the year? Do parents think it's going to be good for the children? etc.)






    Planning in advance, how do you do that, do you make notes? Draw charts? Just imagine it in your head? Something else?

    I'm the last person you should ask, since I've never done it successfully. In general, I plan by writing outlines, but I've never figured out how to follow them once written.



    [...] it's always driven me crazy the way that characters in
    action movies can get dumped in a foreign country with no
    preparation, and somehow never lack for a place to stay and money to
    live on. Now I'm going to be guilty of the same thing.

    Can't she have won the trip, or some mysterious source gifted it to her?

    Is there someone who wants her to go there, and thus arranged for it in
    the most inconspicious way you can think of?

    (Apart from you, I mean. :) )

    Explaining it in the story is relatively easy. But that's different than justifying it as an author. I'm sure there's a good expression for the two concepts, but I can't think what it is; can anyone help me out?

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  • From Brian P.@21:1/5 to Brian P. on Sun Dec 23 05:05:18 2018
    On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 10:06:07 AM UTC-8, Brian P. wrote:



    So now, instead of the flat farmlands and boring houses that first popped into my head, I'm putting together an idealized vacation spot for her to drop in to[...]

    It's funny that after I posted the above message, I went back to writing and rewrote a scene of boring farms that was almost exactly the same as what I had before. Then I took a break, looked at this, and remembered that I said I wasn't going to do that.
    One more rewrite, coming up! I guess talking to myself online does some good after all.

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  • From A. Tina Hall@21:1/5 to bobthrollop@gmail.com on Tue Dec 25 21:06:00 2018
    On 25.12.18, Brian P. <bobthrollop@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Saturday, December 22, 2018 A. Tina Hall wrote:
    On 23.12.18, Brian P. wrote:

    [...]
    Not to get too distracted, it sounds like a good idea. Certainly
    draws an image in my mind. :)

    Don't try to adapt my ideas too literally. [...]

    Oh, I wasn't going to use that for my story, I just got distracted
    comparing the two, and then didn't want to start rambling about my stuff
    in your post. :)

    I've already got the festival. :) I mentioned the details somewhere in
    my rambling, too (in the other thread, where it belongs).

    Planning in advance, how do you do that, do you make notes? Draw
    charts? Just imagine it in your head? Something else?

    I'm the last person you should ask, since I've never done it
    successfully. In general, I plan by writing outlines, but I've never
    figured out how to follow them once written.

    So you write outlines, and then start writing and just write what
    happens, kind of?

    Even if it doesn't work out as planned, I'm still curious, and would try
    it if I can at all. :)

    Maybe some frame to fill the 15 years with, with sections marked with
    what could go in there, would take away from the scare it currently
    produces.

    [...] it's always driven me crazy the way that characters in
    action movies can get dumped in a foreign country with no
    preparation, and somehow never lack for a place to stay and money
    to live on. Now I'm going to be guilty of the same thing.

    Can't she have won the trip, or some mysterious source gifted it to
    her?

    Is there someone who wants her to go there, and thus arranged for it
    in the most inconspicious way you can think of?

    (Apart from you, I mean. :) )

    Explaining it in the story is relatively easy. But that's different
    than justifying it as an author. I'm sure there's a good expression
    for the two concepts, but I can't think what it is; can anyone help
    me out?

    Hm. For me, with anything I find doubtful, justification comes from
    having a reason I can accept in the story. If I can't have that, I must
    find some other way to resolve it, tweak things until I'm satisfied.

    Like, why did X not warn Y? That would bug me, unless I find a really
    good reason that makes sense for the characters. I'm very picky on such
    things, characters doing stupid stuff for plot reasons is one of the
    reasons why I gave up on published books. (I think I mentioned that
    characters are far more important to me than story. I read/write (for)
    the characters, the rest is just to show them.)

    On the other hand, I sometimes seem to have just the right people
    present to do the job, or be in a convenient place to do it, but it's
    the other way round, those present do what they can to do it (whatever
    the 'job' may be).

    --
    "They didn't want him as court jester. Perhaps you would just
    keep him, and I'll get a room in the city."
    -- Sil about Karja, Magic Earth 7/6
    Excerpts at: <http://home.htp-tel.de/fkoerper/ath/athintro.htm>


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  • From A. Tina Hall@21:1/5 to bobthrollop@gmail.com on Tue Dec 25 21:12:00 2018
    On 25.12.18, Brian P. <bobthrollop@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 10:06:07 AM UTC-8, Brian P. wrote:

    I guess talking to myself online does some good after all.

    Hehe, same here. I already got at least an idea and viewpoint on hand to
    write the added (inserted at the beginning) start of the third book.
    Still brewing a bit though.

    --
    "This was your idea." Kaymen pointed out.
    "Damn. Isn't there anyone else to blame?"
    "Oh, I think I could come up with a very short list, and blame everything
    else on the same name as well." -- Magic Earth I: Getting Caught


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  • From Brian P.@21:1/5 to A. Tina Hall on Fri Dec 28 21:08:03 2018
    On Tuesday, December 25, 2018 at 12:18:14 PM UTC-8, A. Tina Hall wrote:

    Planning in advance, how do you do that, do you make notes? Draw
    charts? Just imagine it in your head? Something else?

    I'm the last person you should ask, since I've never done it
    successfully. In general, I plan by writing outlines, but I've never figured out how to follow them once written.

    So you write outlines, and then start writing and just write what
    happens, kind of?

    Often I do, but the results are usually poor until I've rewritten it six or seven times. Too much irrelevant digression, and I fall into that as-it-happens-to-the-viewpoint-character narrative voice that I mentioned I don't like.

    I'm still working on the sequence I mentioned a few days ago, where B. and E. go to a spot that they think will be a vacation. I've dreamed up a nearly epic back story for the place, but for them to think about it too much would kill story momentum.
    Maybe the narrator will give the readers a quick rundown while the two vacationers get ready for the pool party.

    They've been transported back in time to a Bronze Age city just experiencing the dawn of civilization. Everything these people do is for the very first time. The air and water are very clean and the forests and wild creatures are ancient and still
    unspoiled. E. has talents that are of immense value here: she can read.

    Should I tell what the hills and farmlands look like, or the color of the sea? Do the people magically speak English, or is there a language barrier? Are any of the natives connected with the villain's evil plan, and if they're already in contact with
    each other then what do I need B. for? (He's in the story as an instigator, remember.) How much of this does E. get a glimmer of before being interrupted by the characters she was originally intended to meet, who aren't from here at all?




    Even if it doesn't work out as planned, I'm still curious, and would try
    it if I can at all. :)





    Hm. For me, with anything I find doubtful, justification comes from
    having a reason I can accept in the story. If I can't have that, I must find some other way to resolve it, tweak things until I'm satisfied.

    Like, why did X not warn Y? That would bug me, unless I find a really
    good reason that makes sense for the characters...

    I don't require a well established reason, as long as the logical gap is acknowledged. For instance, if X says, "I'm sorry, I guess I should have warned you" or Y reflects that X can't be counted on to speak up, then that's usually enough to keep it
    from bothering me.

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  • From A. Tina Hall@21:1/5 to bobthrollop@gmail.com on Sat Dec 29 18:52:00 2018
    On 29.12.18, Brian P. <bobthrollop@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Tuesday, December 25, 2018, A. Tina Hall wrote:

    I'm the last person you should ask, since I've never done it
    successfully. In general, I plan by writing outlines, but I've
    never figured out how to follow them once written.

    So you write outlines, and then start writing and just write what
    happens, kind of?

    Often I do, but the results are usually poor until I've rewritten it
    six or seven times. Too much irrelevant digression, and I fall into
    that as-it-happens-to-the-viewpoint-character narrative voice that I mentioned I don't like.

    Well, my writing is what it is, I didn't know how to do it any better
    back when I first asked here, and I don't know better now. :) [1]

    Some characters have different ways to talk when they speak, but I don't
    know where that comes from. It's just part of their personality that I
    find out along with everything else.

    I'm curious though, still. Outline, how exactly do you go about that?

    I'm still working on the sequence I mentioned a few days ago, where
    B. and E. go to a spot that they think will be a vacation. I've
    dreamed up a nearly epic back story for the place, but for them to
    think about it too much would kill story momentum. Maybe the
    narrator will give the readers a quick rundown while the two
    vacationers get ready for the pool party.

    I get that sometimes, summarizing what happened in between, with a
    character thinking about it. Sometimes that bores even me, but I don't
    know how to fix it.

    Back stories come as I write them, out of seemingly nowhere. :)

    How do you do that outside the story?

    They've been transported back in time to a Bronze Age city just
    experiencing the dawn of civilization. Everything these people do is
    for the very first time. The air and water are very clean and the
    forests and wild creatures are ancient and still unspoiled. E. has
    talents that are of immense value here: she can read.

    How does that help when no one else can read or write, and there's
    nothing _to_ read? (Or not much?) Just curious. :)

    Bronze Age is quite unexpected as vacation spot, btw. :)

    Should I tell what the hills and farmlands look like, or the color of
    the sea? Do the people magically speak English, or is there a
    language barrier?

    What would you like to see if you read it?

    Also, if they don't have a TARDIS (or equivalent) translating for them,
    I think a language barrier would make more sense. :)

    Are any of the natives connected with the villain's evil plan, and if
    they're already in contact with each other then what do I need B. for?
    (He's in the story as an instigator, remember.) How much of this does
    E. get a glimmer of before being interrupted by the characters she was originally intended to meet, who aren't from here at all?

    I'd go by what makes sense. (Am I not helpful? ;P )

    Hm. For me, with anything I find doubtful, justification comes from
    having a reason I can accept in the story. If I can't have that, I
    must find some other way to resolve it, tweak things until I'm
    satisfied.

    Like, why did X not warn Y? That would bug me, unless I find a
    really good reason that makes sense for the characters...

    I don't require a well established reason, as long as the logical gap
    is acknowledged. For instance, if X says, "I'm sorry, I guess I
    should have warned you" or Y reflects that X can't be counted on to
    speak up, then that's usually enough to keep it from bothering me.

    That'd not be a reason or justification for me, just additionally
    pointing out what's wrong. (Leaving it as that would be behaviour not
    allowed for my characters. :) Well, the good guys anyway, who must be
    the way I want them to be.)

    I'd either have to tweak things so that X does warn Y, and things happen
    the way they do despite that (because I can't change what happened, and
    notice such things after they did happen), or have a really good reason
    why they'd can't.

    I've got specific instances in mind for both.

    Then of course there's the bad guys. Depending on what kind, they can't
    be too stupid either; my evil overlords must prepare themselves within
    their abilities to not be removed by any random 5-year-old with a stick.
    (See evil overlord list - stuff from that must not apply, because
    they're too powerful, not interested, or prepared.)

    The warped ones from the S&E of course are warped. Only the very best
    could resist that (warped magic), the others had all sense removed along
    with everything else good.

    As one of those who does resist ponders on the way back to its people, contemplating if the bad ones knew it wasn't really one of them (they'd
    have to think of this and that)... "Expecting all that would mean they
    had well buried their brains somewhere and only dug them out on special occasions, since they hadn't shown any so far." :))

    Which reminds me, where on earth did I put the S&E quotes for the sig,
    all that's left is ME ones. (I went looking, but couldn't find them.)


    [1] So much for "write a million words and you'll get better". I knew
    back then that that wouldn't work.


    --
    "Being raised by the secret order of not-being-very-informative
    doesn't mean you can't tell us."
    -- Ranes, Magic Earth 7/6
    Excerpts at: <http://home.htp-tel.de/fkoerper/ath/athintro.htm>


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  • From Dorothy J Heydt@21:1/5 to wswears@gci.net on Sat Jan 12 20:48:15 2019
    In article <q1dih0$qm8$1@dont-email.me>, Bill Swears <wswears@gci.net> wrote: >On 8/22/2018 11:01 PM, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:


        Maybe it's time to come back and make this place inhabited again. >> The people who made it hard to be here are gone.

    Unfortunately, I'm back again. We moved to Kansas City for better money,
    and it's been a ferociously busy year. Mom and Dad moved from Sequim,
    WA to Boise, ID in July, then Dad died in September. I've used all of
    my leave for the last year on trips to Sequim and Boise to look after
    family issues. I'm headed there again on the 18th, so the trips aren't >stopping.
    Anyway, we've had a rough year, but we're getting ahead of the ball now.
    Teri seems to like Kansas, and really likes our house here. My
    daughter is taking community college classes full time, has a part time
    job, and still lives at home (one of the major costs of college is
    dorms, so she's building savings, and paying for her coursework while
    living here, and it's working!).

    I lost Eternal September for a time, and just got around to addressing
    that. Not really sure why the server started playing dead, but I asked
    for my password, they sent it, I reentered it right where it was saved >before, and lo and behold, you lovely people are all back again!

    Well, welcome back, and sorry to hear about all your troubles.
    Maybe the new year will be better.

    --
    Dorothy J. Heydt
    Vallejo, California
    djheydt at gmail dot com
    www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

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  • From Bill Swears@21:1/5 to bobthrollop@gmail.com on Sat Jan 12 15:00:57 2019
    On 12/12/2018 4:38 PM, bobthrollop@gmail.com wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 21, 2018 at 10:50:41 PM UTC-7, Johnny Tindalos wrote:
    Hullo rasfc'ers, where did everyone go? Have we changed venue?

    I'm dropping back in after a hiatus of nearly ten years...I stopped posting because I'd just run out of things to say. I never did learn how to write, either.

    I took up one of my old story beginnings last week and started working on it again, and I got bogged down about two pages in. This time, I identified a problem in my style that I never noticed before, and right now I'm thinking about how to overcome
    it.

    The problem is that everything I write is from exactly the same point of view and when the story requires a change, I can't do it. I've been looking over whatever fiction books happened to be sitting around and studying, much more carefully than ever
    before, how different point of view effects are achieved.



    Young Sheldon had a discussion about shifting points of view in Moby
    Dick, and mentioned that the POV there shifted from Ishmael to Ahab at
    some point. I'm still in the Ishmael section, having just read the
    taxonomy of whales, and am bogged down. I've never read Moby Dick
    before, but so far I'm happy with the writing, if unhappy with
    discovering all there was to know about whales in the 1840s.

    Bill

    --
    Bill Swears
    http://www.billswears.com/
    Zook Country - http://twilighttimesbooks.com/ZookCountry_ch1.html
    Also at Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and other fine ebook emporia.
    Puppies - http://www.mtaonline.net/~wswears/
    Opinions - http://wswears.livejournal.com/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bill Swears@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 12 14:26:07 2019
    On 8/22/2018 11:01 PM, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:


        Maybe it's time to come back and make this place inhabited again. The people who made it hard to be here are gone.

    Unfortunately, I'm back again. We moved to Kansas City for better money,
    and it's been a ferociously busy year. Mom and Dad moved from Sequim,
    WA to Boise, ID in July, then Dad died in September. I've used all of
    my leave for the last year on trips to Sequim and Boise to look after
    family issues. I'm headed there again on the 18th, so the trips aren't stopping.
    Anyway, we've had a rough year, but we're getting ahead of the ball now.
    Teri seems to like Kansas, and really likes our house here. My
    daughter is taking community college classes full time, has a part time
    job, and still lives at home (one of the major costs of college is
    dorms, so she's building savings, and paying for her coursework while
    living here, and it's working!).

    I lost Eternal September for a time, and just got around to addressing
    that. Not really sure why the server started playing dead, but I asked
    for my password, they sent it, I reentered it right where it was saved
    before, and lo and behold, you lovely people are all back again!

    Bill



    --
    Bill Swears
    http://www.billswears.com/
    Zook Country - http://twilighttimesbooks.com/ZookCountry_ch1.html
    Also at Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and other fine ebook emporia.
    Puppies - http://www.mtaonline.net/~wswears/
    Opinions - http://wswears.livejournal.com/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bill Swears@21:1/5 to jdnicoll@panix.com on Tue Jan 29 20:54:35 2019
    On 8/23/2018 10:08 AM, jdnicoll@panix.com wrote:
    In article <XnsA947A15C571C0JamaisVuUnrealEmaila@85.214.115.223>,
    Johnny Tindalos <JamaisVu@UnrealEmail.arg> wrote:
    "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote in
    news:pllbie$o4k$1@dont-email.me:

    Maybe it's time to come back and make this place inhabited again.
    The
    people who made it hard to be here are gone.


    Oh dear, was there an infestation?

    Doctrinaire libertarians.

    It does seem that one must have a very long list of specific likes and
    dislikes in order to be a rugged individualist. Startling, isn't it?

    Bill

    --
    Bill Swears
    http://www.billswears.com/
    Zook Country - http://twilighttimesbooks.com/ZookCountry_ch1.html
    Also at Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and other fine ebook emporia.
    Puppies - http://www.mtaonline.net/~wswears/
    Opinions - http://wswears.livejournal.com/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Matthew Graybosch@21:1/5 to Johnny Tindalos on Tue Feb 26 12:01:26 2019
    On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 14:51:47 -0000 (UTC)
    Johnny Tindalos <JamaisVu@UnrealEmail.arg> wrote:

    Would love it if some of the old regulars (or new people!) felt like returning too; I always lurked more than I posted but I miss spending
    sunny weekend mornings peacefully catching up; rasfw was often
    hillarious but the conversations here were the best.

    I kinda missed out on USENET during its heyday, so I'm all for a
    revival since the World Wide Web no longer sparks joy -- and hasn't in
    a long time.

    --
    Matthew Graybosch
    https://matthewgraybosch.com
    gopher://asgartech.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Matthew Graybosch@21:1/5 to Bill Swears on Tue Feb 26 11:59:46 2019
    On Sat, 12 Jan 2019 14:26:07 -0600
    Bill Swears <wswears@gci.net> wrote:

    I lost Eternal September for a time, and just got around to
    addressing that.

    That's funny. I had just created an Eternal September account yesterday
    because I heard about the site from somebody on Mastodon.

    --
    Matthew Graybosch
    https://matthewgraybosch.com
    gopher://asgartech.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Matthew Graybosch@21:1/5 to Johnny Tindalos on Tue Feb 26 12:34:56 2019
    On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 15:04:32 -0000 (UTC)
    Johnny Tindalos <JamaisVu@UnrealEmail.arg> wrote:

    My SF-blog-and-forum-fu is otherwise weak as a kitten who
    ate too much lettuce...is there anything good on Reddit?

    Reddit is basically 4chan with user accounts, a Mos Eisley disguised as
    a website, but if you're going to do Reddit then r/fantasy isn't
    terrible as long as you know what you're getting into:

    - r/fantasy allows all kinds of sf, but does lean toward fantasy.
    - The Brandon Sanderson and Malazan Book of the Fallen fandoms are
    heavily represented on r/fantasy.
    - r/fantasy seems to cater to a younger crowd, and authors active
    before 2000 don't get as much love.

    You might try r/printsf as well, but that isn't as large or as active
    a subreddit.

    --
    Matthew Graybosch
    https://matthewgraybosch.com
    gopher://asgartech.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dorothy J Heydt@21:1/5 to howdy@matthewgraybosch.com on Tue Feb 26 19:43:50 2019
    In article <20190226120126.28e59fbe@asgartech.com>,
    Matthew Graybosch <howdy@matthewgraybosch.com> wrote:
    On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 14:51:47 -0000 (UTC)
    Johnny Tindalos <JamaisVu@UnrealEmail.arg> wrote:

    Would love it if some of the old regulars (or new people!) felt like
    returning too; I always lurked more than I posted but I miss spending
    sunny weekend mornings peacefully catching up; rasfw was often
    hillarious but the conversations here were the best.

    I kinda missed out on USENET during its heyday, so I'm all for a
    revival since the World Wide Web no longer sparks joy -- and hasn't in
    a long time.

    Joy is in the thymos of the beholder. There are some good things
    on the Web (Patricia Wrede's blog, e.g., now temporarily
    suspended while she clears up her late father's estate, but
    plenty of backmatter to read in the meantime).

    What I liked about USENET in the high and palmy days was that
    people would bounce off each other's ideas and engage in
    plentiful thread drift. Can't do so much of that on somebody
    else's blog.

    --
    Dorothy J. Heydt
    Vallejo, California
    djheydt at gmail dot com
    www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

    (Particularly if you have to join something to respond to it,
    sometimes even to read it.)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Capuchin@21:1/5 to Heydt on Wed Feb 27 18:13:32 2019
    On Tue, 26 Feb 2019 19:43:50 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
    Heydt) wrote:

    (Particularly if you have to join something to respond to it,
    sometimes even to read it.)

    This.

    I have a .txt file with all my log-ins. It's simply the site name
    (usually abbreviated), a few letters to signify which mailbox I used,
    my username, and the password (usually also abbreviated).

    One line for each site. There are some groupings (three or four
    associated sites), but it's generally double-spaced so I can quickly
    find what I need.

    It runs three pages; full pages with no headers/footers.

    And those are only the sites which I need to use fairly regularly!

    I'm not about to sign up for every blog/catalog/cartoon page which I
    find interesting and will probably visit once in a while.

    Any site which requires a sign-up or white-listing in AdBlocker gets
    passed over. Besides the hassle of doing either, I simply don't like
    the mentality behind such demands, and I am persnickety about whom I
    associate with, even if it's just browsing on0line.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bill Swears@21:1/5 to Matthew Graybosch on Thu May 16 17:42:30 2019
    On 2/26/2019 10:59 AM, Matthew Graybosch wrote:
    On Sat, 12 Jan 2019 14:26:07 -0600
    Bill Swears <wswears@gci.net> wrote:

    I lost Eternal September for a time, and just got around to
    addressing that.

    That's funny. I had just created an Eternal September account yesterday because I heard about the site from somebody on Mastodon.

    I like eternal September. it's served me well for several years. I'm
    assuming that my move from Alaska to Kansas was the trigger to losing
    access, but can't really say.

    I notice that my signature here is pretty worn out.

    --
    Bill Swears
    http://www.billswears.com/
    Zook Country - http://twilighttimesbooks.com/ZookCountry_ch1.html
    Also at Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and other fine ebook emporia.
    Puppies - http://www.mtaonline.net/~wswears/
    Opinions - http://wswears.livejournal.com/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Geoffrey@21:1/5 to Bill Swears on Thu May 30 23:05:41 2019
    On 17/05/2019 00:42, Bill Swears wrote:
    On 2/26/2019 10:59 AM, Matthew Graybosch wrote:
    On Sat, 12 Jan 2019 14:26:07 -0600
    Bill Swears <wswears@gci.net> wrote:

    I lost Eternal September for a time, and just got around to
    addressing that.

    That's funny. I had just created an Eternal September account yesterday
    because I heard about the site from somebody on Mastodon.

    I like eternal September.  it's served me well for several years.  I'm assuming that my move from Alaska to Kansas was the trigger to losing
    access, but can't really say.

    I notice that my signature here is pretty worn out.


    I only get around actually checking usenet when I have time. Which turns
    out to be every few months when I visit my parents and they take care of
    the kid for a while.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dorothy J Heydt@21:1/5 to gmkeros@gmail.com on Thu May 30 22:09:07 2019
    In article <56t5sf-qkd.ln1@Shorkyne.lodz.pl>,
    John Geoffrey <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 17/05/2019 00:42, Bill Swears wrote:
    On 2/26/2019 10:59 AM, Matthew Graybosch wrote:
    On Sat, 12 Jan 2019 14:26:07 -0600
    Bill Swears <wswears@gci.net> wrote:

    I lost Eternal September for a time, and just got around to
    addressing that.

    That's funny. I had just created an Eternal September account yesterday
    because I heard about the site from somebody on Mastodon.

    I like eternal September.  it's served me well for several years.  I'm
    assuming that my move from Alaska to Kansas was the trigger to losing
    access, but can't really say.

    I notice that my signature here is pretty worn out.


    I only get around actually checking usenet when I have time. Which turns
    out to be every few months when I visit my parents and they take care of
    the kid for a while.

    Well, I check USENET at least once a day. But it's a rare day
    when I see anything posted to this group. It was poisoned by
    irrelevant real-world politics.

    --
    Dorothy J. Heydt
    Vallejo, California
    djheydt at gmail dot com
    www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Geoffrey@21:1/5 to Dorothy J Heydt on Fri May 31 12:12:46 2019
    On 31/05/2019 00:09, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
    In article <56t5sf-qkd.ln1@Shorkyne.lodz.pl>,
    John Geoffrey <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 17/05/2019 00:42, Bill Swears wrote:
    On 2/26/2019 10:59 AM, Matthew Graybosch wrote:
    On Sat, 12 Jan 2019 14:26:07 -0600
    Bill Swears <wswears@gci.net> wrote:

    I lost Eternal September for a time, and just got around to
    addressing that.

    That's funny. I had just created an Eternal September account yesterday >>>> because I heard about the site from somebody on Mastodon.

    I like eternal September.  it's served me well for several years.  I'm
    assuming that my move from Alaska to Kansas was the trigger to losing
    access, but can't really say.

    I notice that my signature here is pretty worn out.


    I only get around actually checking usenet when I have time. Which turns
    out to be every few months when I visit my parents and they take care of
    the kid for a while.

    Well, I check USENET at least once a day. But it's a rare day
    when I see anything posted to this group. It was poisoned by
    irrelevant real-world politics.


    I blocked out a lot of newsgroups so messages crossposted to them don't
    show up anymore. Alas that leaves me with a rather empty USENET.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)