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On Sun, 31 Mar 2024 02:25:09 -0000 (UTC)
"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

I keep posting without the article body. Sorry about that.

No party in Israel has ever had a majority in Knesset, so coalition governments are often formed by making deals with the religious
parties. This includes tuition and massive stipends for living
expenses.

Do you have any idea why Israel chose to have a proportional
representation system in the first place? I'm guessing that it was
because this was deemed the fairest system at the time but maybe it's historical.

They would probably make their lives easier if they had a
non-proportional system or even just a different proportional system - apparently there are many - but maybe that would fly in the face of
centuries of tradition?

Frankly, I've always been surprised that Israel chose proportional representation so soon after WW II. After all, Hitler had ascended to
power by means of the proportional representation system in Germany
after WW I. Surely many of the founders of the Israeli state were aware
of this.

Proportional representation also caused a great deal of instability in
Italy after WW II. They were averaging elections every 10 or 11 months
for several decades. (I think they finally changed their system 20 or
30 years back, probably under Berlusconi, and now have elections at a
more normal frequency.)

The high court ruled that it's at the expense of the secular
population and must be dismantled.

Seminary students were exempt from three years of army service. They protested when this was to be required. I think it was finally forced through.

This could easily cause the government to fall.

I know that Bibi was trying to rein in the high court a year or two
back and that it raised a huge controversy in Israel. I'm not clear
on how things ended up or even if the reforms were finally implemented,
changed or abandoned.

I've seen plenty of predictions that Bibi was done in the wake of Oct.
7 but other pundits say it's premature to count him out. I know that
I'm not even going to TRY to predict his future beyond the fact that he
will die eventually.

I've been amazed and deeply impressed at how the Israeli public,
especially those hating Bibi, have put their animosity on hold while
the current war is taking place. They may be counting
the minutes until the war is over so that Bibi can be dealt with but
they are "keeping their powder dry" until then. Or so it seems in the
things I've read and seen. Only Schumer seems to be trying to push
Israel into dumping Bibi now.

If Bibi's coalition fractures, who will likely be the beneficiary? A
couple of years back, Ganz seemed to be the guy that everyone seemed to
think should be PM but I'm not sure if they still feel that way.

--
Rhino

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I keep posting without the article body. Sorry about that.

No party in Israel has ever had a majority in Knesset, so coalition
governments are often formed by making deals with the religious parties.
This includes tuition and massive stipends for living expenses.

The high court ruled that it's at the expense of the secular population
and must be dismantled.

Seminary students were exempt from three years of army service. They
protested when this was to be required. I think it was finally forced
through.

This could easily cause the government to fall.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

Sun, 31 Mar 2024 02:25:09 -0000 (UTC) Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>:

I keep posting without the article body. Sorry about that.

No party in Israel has ever had a majority in Knesset, so coalition >>governments are often formed by making deals with the religious
parties. This includes tuition and massive stipends for living
expenses.

Do you have any idea why Israel chose to have a proportional
representation system in the first place? I'm guessing that it was
because this was deemed the fairest system at the time but maybe it's >historical.

Israel still lacks a constitution and works on a series of organic laws
that may be repealed by the Knesset at any time. Some laws of the
British Mandate are still on the books, as are some laws from the
Ottoman Turks, especially relevant with Easter and the Status Quo. (Each denomination enters through a different gate.) There are no constituencies.

Israel was going to get around to writing a constitution but there was
no time, what with several wars for independence.

They would probably make their lives easier if they had a
non-proportional system or even just a different proportional system - >apparently there are many - but maybe that would fly in the face of
centuries of tradition?

There is a government in reaction to the Palestinians, whatever the
crisis of the moment is. Israel's politics are tremendously subject to
outside influence. If there were true peace, things would be very much different.

. . .

I know that Bibi was trying to rein in the high court a year or two
back and that it raised a huge controversy in Israel. I'm not clear
on how things ended up or even if the reforms were finally implemented, >changed or abandoned.

The war put everything on hold. Protests over the supreme court made the
time right for the attack.

I've seen plenty of predictions that Bibi was done in the wake of Oct.
7 but other pundits say it's premature to count him out. I know that
I'm not even going to TRY to predict his future beyond the fact that he
will die eventually.

I have no clue.

I've been amazed and deeply impressed at how the Israeli public,
especially those hating Bibi, have put their animosity on hold while
the current war is taking place.

Netanyahu might as well be a caretaker. It's their country and they will
hold on to it at all cost.

They may be counting the minutes until the war is over so that Bibi can
be dealt with but they are "keeping their powder dry" until then. Or so
it seems in the things I've read and seen.

I think that's the least of their problems.

Only Schumer seems to be trying to push Israel into dumping Bibi now.

I know Schumer did it to bail out Biden but it was a huge mistake.

If Bibi's coalition fractures, who will likely be the beneficiary? A
couple of years back, Ganz seemed to be the guy that everyone seemed to
think should be PM but I'm not sure if they still feel that way.

I haven't a clue. Ganz isn't as impressive as Netanyahu, a genuine war hero.

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On Sun, 31 Mar 2024 03:21:36 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

I haven't a clue. Ganz isn't as impressive as Netanyahu, a genuine war hero.

Bibi's a war hero?!? I know his brother was (he led the raid on
Entebbe and was the only casualty on the Israeli side) but I have
never before heard it claimed that the brothers either served together
or that Bibi himself was one.

When and where did he serve?

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On Sat, 30 Mar 2024 22:57:35 -0400, Rhino
<no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

I've been amazed and deeply impressed at how the Israeli public,
especially those hating Bibi, have put their animosity on hold while
the current war is taking place. They may be counting
the minutes until the war is over so that Bibi can be dealt with but
they are "keeping their powder dry" until then. Or so it seems in the
things I've read and seen. Only Schumer seems to be trying to push
Israel into dumping Bibi now.

A lot of that is due to the history of the Israeli prime minister
(Golda Meir) "walking the plank" after the war of 1973 which the
Israelis were the undeniable winner but had been caught completely
flat-footed at the beginning of the war.

Frankly I expect Bibi to go very soon after the shooting eventually
stops.

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The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:

Sun, 31 Mar 2024 03:21:36 -0000 (UTC), Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>:

I haven't a clue. Ganz isn't as impressive as Netanyahu, a genuine war hero.

Bibi's a war hero?!? I know his brother was (he led the raid on
Entebbe and was the only casualty on the Israeli side) but I have
never before heard it claimed that the brothers either served together
or that Bibi himself was one.

When and where did he serve?

From his Wikipedia page

After graduating from high school in 1967, Netanyahu returned to
Israel to enlist in the Israel Defense Forces. He trained as a
combat soldier and served for five years in a special forces
unit of the IDF, Sayeret Matkal. He took part in numerous
cross-border raids during the 1967.70 War of Attrition,
including the March 1968 Battle of Karameh, when the IDF
attacked Jordan to capture PLO leader Yasser Arafat but were
repulsed with heavy casualties, rising to become a team-leader
in the unit. He was wounded in combat on multiple occasions. He
was involved in many other missions, including the 1968 Israeli
raid on Lebanon and the rescue of the hijacked Sabena Flight 571
in May 1972, in which he was shot in the shoulder. He was
discharged from active service in 1972 but remained in the
Sayeret Matkal reserves. Following his discharge, he left to
study in the United States but returned in October 1973 to serve
in the Yom Kippur War. He took part in special forces raids
along the Suez Canal against Egyptian forces before leading a
commando attack deep inside Syrian territory, the details of
which remain classified today.

There's nothing unusual here. Everybody serves, and a lot of men had war records like this during that era.

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The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:

Sat, 30 Mar 2024 22:57:35 -0400, Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com>:

I've been amazed and deeply impressed at how the Israeli public,
especially those hating Bibi, have put their animosity on hold while
the current war is taking place. They may be counting
the minutes until the war is over so that Bibi can be dealt with but
they are "keeping their powder dry" until then. Or so it seems in the >>things I've read and seen. Only Schumer seems to be trying to push
Israel into dumping Bibi now.

A lot of that is due to the history of the Israeli prime minister
(Golda Meir) "walking the plank" after the war of 1973 which the
Israelis were the undeniable winner but had been caught completely >flat-footed at the beginning of the war.

Frankly I expect Bibi to go very soon after the shooting eventually
stops.

It's really not comparable. She never wanted to be prime minister. He
kept getting elected to deal with various serious escalations from the Palestinians after Oslo failed to achieve much in the way of peace.

Instead, to get out of personal legal difficulty, he tried to put the
Supreme Court under Parliament, destroying it as an independent branch
of the government, which most Israelis would not stand for. It led to resignations from the Reserves. It's Israel. This has never happened
before. Between that and distracting the Saudis from signing a peace
treaty, that's why Hamas chose that time to attack.

Meir's government missed signs of war preparations but she was not
accused of creating massive dissent within Israeli society to get out of potential criminal charges.

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In article <uuag52$1eqfr$2@dont-email.me>, ahk@chinet.com wrote:



Nah, just the Democrats.

--
Let's go Brandon!

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On Tue, 2 Apr 2024 13:57:36 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:

Sun, 31 Mar 2024 03:21:36 -0000 (UTC), Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>:

I haven't a clue. Ganz isn't as impressive as Netanyahu, a genuine war hero.

Bibi's a war hero?!? I know his brother was (he led the raid on
Entebbe and was the only casualty on the Israeli side) but I have
never before heard it claimed that the brothers either served together
or that Bibi himself was one.

When and where did he serve?

From his Wikipedia page

After graduating from high school in 1967, Netanyahu returned to
Israel to enlist in the Israel Defense Forces. He trained as a
combat soldier and served for five years in a special forces
unit of the IDF, Sayeret Matkal. He took part in numerous
cross-border raids during the 1967.70 War of Attrition,
including the March 1968 Battle of Karameh, when the IDF
attacked Jordan to capture PLO leader Yasser Arafat but were
repulsed with heavy casualties, rising to become a team-leader
in the unit. He was wounded in combat on multiple occasions. He
was involved in many other missions, including the 1968 Israeli
raid on Lebanon and the rescue of the hijacked Sabena Flight 571
in May 1972, in which he was shot in the shoulder. He was
discharged from active service in 1972 but remained in the
Sayeret Matkal reserves. Following his discharge, he left to
study in the United States but returned in October 1973 to serve
in the Yom Kippur War. He took part in special forces raids
along the Suez Canal against Egyptian forces before leading a
commando attack deep inside Syrian territory, the details of
which remain classified today.

There's nothing unusual here. Everybody serves, and a lot of men had war >records like this during that era.

OK thanks for the heads' up - and I've seen enough Israeli Youtubes to understand your last point.

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