Wnat will become of Gideon Reeves?
Mayor Johnson to end ShotSpotter deal after summer, making good on key campaign promise
After Sun-Times first reported the decision, Johnson issued a
statement saying the city "will decommission" the gunshot detection
system on Sept. 22, meaning cops will have access to it throughout
the violent summer months and the Democratic National Convention.
By Tom Schuba and Fran Spielman
Chicago Sun-Times
Feb 13, 2024, 10:41am CST https://chicago.suntimes.com/2024/02/13/mayor-johnson-to-end-shotspotter-deal-after-summer
Note that Johnson's brand new police commissioner said publicly that
he wanted the contract renewed.
Tue, 13 Feb 2024 21:16:29 -0000 (UTC) Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>:
Wnat will become of Gideon Reeves?
Mayor Johnson to end ShotSpotter deal after summer, making good on key >>campaign promise
After Sun-Times first reported the decision, Johnson issued a
statement saying the city "will decommission" the gunshot detection
system on Sept. 22, meaning cops will have access to it throughout
the violent summer months and the Democratic National Convention.
By Tom Schuba and Fran Spielman
Chicago Sun-Times
Feb 13, 2024, 10:41am CST >>https://chicago.suntimes.com/2024/02/13/mayor-johnson-to-end-shotspotter-deal-after-summer
Note that Johnson's brand new police commissioner said publicly that
he wanted the contract renewed.
What's your take on this, Adam? Are the anti-ShotSpotter activists
actually sincere or are they worried that criminals might get caught if
the technology stays in place? Are the pro-ShotSpotter people really
seeing positive results or are they just keen to maintain the contract
for benefits to themselves?
Wnat will become of Gideon Reeves?
Mayor Johnson to end ShotSpotter deal after summer, making good on key campaign promise
After Sun-Times first reported the decision, Johnson issued a statement saying the city "will decommission" the gunshot detection system on
Sept. 22, meaning cops will have access to it throughout the violent
summer months and the Democratic National Convention.
By Tom Schuba and Fran Spielman
Chicago Sun-Times
Feb 13, 2024, 10:41am CST https://chicago.suntimes.com/2024/02/13/mayor-johnson-to-end-shotspotter-deal-after-summer
Note that Johnson's brand new police commissioner said publicly that he wanted the contract renewed.
Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
Wnat will become of Gideon Reeves?
Mayor Johnson to end ShotSpotter deal after summer, making good on key
campaign promise
After Sun-Times first reported the decision, Johnson issued a statement
saying the city "will decommission" the gunshot detection system on
Sept. 22, meaning cops will have access to it throughout the violent
summer months and the Democratic National Convention.
By Tom Schuba and Fran Spielman
Chicago Sun-Times
Feb 13, 2024, 10:41am CST
https://chicago.suntimes.com/2024/02/13/mayor-johnson-to-end-shotspotter-deal-after-summer
Note that Johnson's brand new police commissioner said publicly that he
wanted the contract renewed.
The question is, is the system effective and accurate?
If it is, then the mayor's decision is reprehensible.
If it's not, then the decision is a good one that benefits taxpayers.
"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
After Sun-Times first reported the decision, Johnson issued a
statement saying the city "will decommission" the gunshot detection
system on Sept. 22, meaning cops will have access to it throughout
the violent summer months and the Democratic National Convention.
Note that Johnson's brand new police commissioner said publicly that
he wanted the contract renewed.
What's your take on this, Adam? Are the anti-ShotSpotter activists
actually sincere or are they worried that criminals might get caught if
the technology stays in place? Are the pro-ShotSpotter people really
seeing positive results or are they just keen to maintain the contract
for benefits to themselves?
Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
Wnat will become of Gideon Reeves?
Mayor Johnson to end ShotSpotter deal after summer, making good on key >>campaign promise
After Sun-Times first reported the decision, Johnson issued a statement >>saying the city "will decommission" the gunshot detection system on
Sept. 22, meaning cops will have access to it throughout the violent
summer months and the Democratic National Convention.
By Tom Schuba and Fran Spielman
Chicago Sun-Times
Feb 13, 2024, 10:41am CST >>https://chicago.suntimes.com/2024/02/13/mayor-johnson-to-end-shotspotter-deal-after-summer
Note that Johnson's brand new police commissioner said publicly that he >>wanted the contract renewed.
The question is, is the system effective and accurate?
If it is, then the mayor's decision is reprehensible.
If it's not, then the decision is a good one that benefits taxpayers.
BTR1701 <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
Wnat will become of Gideon Reeves?
Mayor Johnson to end ShotSpotter deal after summer, making good on key >>>campaign promise
After Sun-Times first reported the decision, Johnson issued a statement >>>saying the city "will decommission" the gunshot detection system on
Sept. 22, meaning cops will have access to it throughout the violent >>>summer months and the Democratic National Convention.
By Tom Schuba and Fran Spielman
Chicago Sun-Times
Feb 13, 2024, 10:41am CST >>>https://chicago.suntimes.com/2024/02/13/mayor-johnson-to-end-shotspotter-deal-after-summer
Note that Johnson's brand new police commissioner said publicly that he >>>wanted the contract renewed.
The question is, is the system effective and accurate?
If it is, then the mayor's decision is reprehensible.
If it's not, then the decision is a good one that benefits taxpayers.
The Inspector General report from some time back said that cops weren't >necessarily showing up in time to make arrests, and more recently, the >state's attorney helpfully said it wasn't creating evidence for
prosecution. I don't see that as the issue.
In recent months, the police department said it let the fire department
get to crime scenes more quickly to treat victims of gunshots. No one
really has offered good statistics.
The manufacturer claims 97% accuracy.
There are certain community organizers who defend the technology. Father >Pfleger, a Catholic priest long assigned to the same parish in a black >neighborhood, a well-known anti-gun and anti-gang activist, said that
it's justified if just one life has been saved.
Here's Fran Spielman's news analysis. She's written for the Chicago
Sun-Times for decades, the city hall correspondent.
https://chicago.suntimes.com/city-hall/2024/02/13/chicago-mayor-brandon-johnson-shotspotter-ends-leadership
shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
Wed, 14 Feb 2024 23:15:02 -0000 (UTC), Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>: >>>BTR1701 <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
Wnat will become of Gideon Reeves?
Mayor Johnson to end ShotSpotter deal after summer, making good on key >>>>>campaign promise
After Sun-Times first reported the decision, Johnson issued a statement >>>>>saying the city "will decommission" the gunshot detection system on >>>>>Sept. 22, meaning cops will have access to it throughout the violent >>>>>summer months and the Democratic National Convention.
By Tom Schuba and Fran Spielman
Chicago Sun-Times
Feb 13, 2024, 10:41am CST >>>>>https://chicago.suntimes.com/2024/02/13/mayor-johnson-to-end-shotspotter-deal-after-summer
Note that Johnson's brand new police commissioner said publicly that he >>>>>wanted the contract renewed.
The question is, is the system effective and accurate?
If it is, then the mayor's decision is reprehensible.
If it's not, then the decision is a good one that benefits taxpayers.
The Inspector General report from some time back said that cops weren't >>>necessarily showing up in time to make arrests, and more recently, the >>>state's attorney helpfully said it wasn't creating evidence for >>>prosecution. I don't see that as the issue.
That's an issue with either the cops or the number of cops available
to respond.
No, just the coincidence if the cop called to the location is near
enough. We don't expect police to travel long distances to show up while
the crime is taking place as we see on tv.
In recent months, the police department said it let the fire department >>>get to crime scenes more quickly to treat victims of gunshots. No one >>>really has offered good statistics.
The manufacturer claims 97% accuracy.
I'm sure they would.
That statistic is about false positives. There is no statistic about
false negatives.
There are certain community organizers who defend the technology. Father >>>Pfleger, a Catholic priest long assigned to the same parish in a black >>>neighborhood, a well-known anti-gun and anti-gang activist, said that >>>it's justified if just one life has been saved.
On the other hand wasn't their a report about some lives being lost
because the cops showed up ready to shoot and ending up shooting
innocent people? So if the cost is one innocent life is it worth
keeping? I know that some would say yes, it's worth it.
That's why I mentioned the killing of Adam Toledo. In that case,
ShotSpotter did its job and it was horrifically bad police work.
It's ridiculous to blame ShotSpotter. All we expect of the technology is >sound analysis, nothing more. And I've pointed out that police will come
in hot if they hear an "officer needs assistance" radio call, or
dispatch or a 9-1-1 report sends them to a "shots fired" call.
Police are responsible for their reaction to a situation no matter if
the call came in due to technology or a citizen report.
Wed, 14 Feb 2024 23:15:02 -0000 (UTC), Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>: >>BTR1701 <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
Wnat will become of Gideon Reeves?
Mayor Johnson to end ShotSpotter deal after summer, making good on key >>>>campaign promise
After Sun-Times first reported the decision, Johnson issued a statement >>>>saying the city "will decommission" the gunshot detection system on >>>>Sept. 22, meaning cops will have access to it throughout the violent >>>>summer months and the Democratic National Convention.
By Tom Schuba and Fran Spielman
Chicago Sun-Times
Feb 13, 2024, 10:41am CST >>>>https://chicago.suntimes.com/2024/02/13/mayor-johnson-to-end-shotspotter-deal-after-summer
Note that Johnson's brand new police commissioner said publicly that he >>>>wanted the contract renewed.
The question is, is the system effective and accurate?
If it is, then the mayor's decision is reprehensible.
If it's not, then the decision is a good one that benefits taxpayers.
The Inspector General report from some time back said that cops weren't >>necessarily showing up in time to make arrests, and more recently, the >>state's attorney helpfully said it wasn't creating evidence for >>prosecution. I don't see that as the issue.
That's an issue with either the cops or the number of cops available
to respond.
In recent months, the police department said it let the fire department
get to crime scenes more quickly to treat victims of gunshots. No one >>really has offered good statistics.
The manufacturer claims 97% accuracy.
I'm sure they would.
There are certain community organizers who defend the technology. Father >>Pfleger, a Catholic priest long assigned to the same parish in a black >>neighborhood, a well-known anti-gun and anti-gang activist, said that
it's justified if just one life has been saved.
On the other hand wasn't their a report about some lives being lost
because the cops showed up ready to shoot and ending up shooting
innocent people? So if the cost is one innocent life is it worth
keeping? I know that some would say yes, it's worth it.
. . .
Thu, 15 Feb 2024 01:33:23 -0000 (UTC), Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>: >>shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
Wed, 14 Feb 2024 23:15:02 -0000 (UTC), Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>: >>>>BTR1701 <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
Wnat will become of Gideon Reeves?
Mayor Johnson to end ShotSpotter deal after summer, making good on key >>>>>>campaign promise
After Sun-Times first reported the decision, Johnson issued a statement >>>>>>saying the city "will decommission" the gunshot detection system on >>>>>>Sept. 22, meaning cops will have access to it throughout the violent >>>>>>summer months and the Democratic National Convention.
By Tom Schuba and Fran Spielman
Chicago Sun-Times
Feb 13, 2024, 10:41am CST >>>>>>https://chicago.suntimes.com/2024/02/13/mayor-johnson-to-end-shotspotter-deal-after-summer
Note that Johnson's brand new police commissioner said publicly that he >>>>>>wanted the contract renewed.
The question is, is the system effective and accurate?
If it is, then the mayor's decision is reprehensible.
If it's not, then the decision is a good one that benefits taxpayers.
The Inspector General report from some time back said that cops weren't >>>>necessarily showing up in time to make arrests, and more recently, the >>>>state's attorney helpfully said it wasn't creating evidence for >>>>prosecution. I don't see that as the issue.
That's an issue with either the cops or the number of cops available
to respond.
No, just the coincidence if the cop called to the location is near
enough. We don't expect police to travel long distances to show up while >>the crime is taking place as we see on tv.
My take was that if you have enough cops there should always be one
nearby. Though not many places can afford that. I'm reminded of this
Youtube video I watched yesterday about the Beverly Hills police
department where the officer said they average a 3 minute response
time.
In recent months, the police department said it let the fire department >>>>get to crime scenes more quickly to treat victims of gunshots. No one >>>>really has offered good statistics.
The manufacturer claims 97% accuracy.
I'm sure they would.
That statistic is about false positives. There is no statistic about
false negatives.
There are certain community organizers who defend the technology. Father >>>>Pfleger, a Catholic priest long assigned to the same parish in a black >>>>neighborhood, a well-known anti-gun and anti-gang activist, said that >>>>it's justified if just one life has been saved.
On the other hand wasn't their a report about some lives being lost >>>because the cops showed up ready to shoot and ending up shooting
innocent people? So if the cost is one innocent life is it worth
keeping? I know that some would say yes, it's worth it.
That's why I mentioned the killing of Adam Toledo. In that case, >>ShotSpotter did its job and it was horrifically bad police work.
Was it as bad as this: >https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/02/14/acorn-florida-police-shoot-unarmed/
. . .
It's ridiculous to blame ShotSpotter. All we expect of the technology is >>sound analysis, nothing more. And I've pointed out that police will come
in hot if they hear an "officer needs assistance" radio call, or
dispatch or a 9-1-1 report sends them to a "shots fired" call.
Police are responsible for their reaction to a situation no matter if
the call came in due to technology or a citizen report.
Agreed. Though at least with a citizen call there may be some context
given to what is happening. With something like ShotSpotter there's no >context other than a weapon was discharged.
The TL;dr of it is a guy was arrested, checked for weapons, handcuffed
and put in the back of the police car. Then one of the cops thought he
heard a shot and had been shot and unloaded on the police car thinking
the guy had somehow magically got a weapon and shot at him. Luckily
the guy in handcuffs wasn't hit. Turns out the police cam video shows
the officer heard an acorn hit the car and thought that was a gun
shot.
Chicago is 234 square miles and has a relatively high crime rate. I
don't see how that's possible. What is Beverly Hills going to have but property crime?
On 2024-02-15 02:11:20 +0000, shawn said:
The TL;dr of it is a guy was arrested, checked for weapons, handcuffed
and put in the back of the police car. Then one of the cops thought he
heard a shot and had been shot and unloaded on the police car thinking
the guy had somehow magically got a weapon and shot at him. Luckily
the guy in handcuffs wasn't hit. Turns out the police cam video shows
the officer heard an acorn hit the car and thought that was a gun
shot.
I wasn't paying a whole lot of attention but on the local news tonight
they were showing some new technology that can detect an automatic
rifle just on sight -- the gun doesn't even have to be fired.
Probably only practical in a school setting though, especially with all
these states that have open carry laws.
On 2024-02-15 02:11:20 +0000, shawn said:
The TL;dr of it is a guy was arrested, checked for weapons, handcuffed
and put in the back of the police car. Then one of the cops thought he heard a shot and had been shot and unloaded on the police car thinking
the guy had somehow magically got a weapon and shot at him. Luckily
the guy in handcuffs wasn't hit. Turns out the police cam video shows
the officer heard an acorn hit the car and thought that was a gun
shot.
I wasn't paying a whole lot of attention but on the local news tonight
they were showing some new technology that can detect an automatic
rifle just on sight -- the gun doesn't even have to be fired.
In article <uqk2cm$32c6o$1@dont-email.me>,
super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:
On 2024-02-15 02:11:20 +0000, shawn said:
The TL;dr of it is a guy was arrested, checked for weapons, handcuffed and put in the back of the police car. Then one of the cops thought he heard a shot and had been shot and unloaded on the police car thinking the guy had somehow magically got a weapon and shot at him. Luckily
the guy in handcuffs wasn't hit. Turns out the police cam video shows
the officer heard an acorn hit the car and thought that was a gun
shot.
I wasn't paying a whole lot of attention but on the local news tonight
they were showing some new technology that can detect an automatic
rifle just on sight -- the gun doesn't even have to be fired.
Is it actually an automatic rifle or is that just what the media called
it? Because the media is notorious for calling semi-autos "automatic
guns" when there's a world of difference between two.
BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:
I wasn't paying a whole lot of attention but on the local news tonight >>>they were showing some new technology that can detect an automatic
rifle just on sight -- the gun doesn't even have to be fired.
Is it actually an automatic rifle or is that just what the media called
it? Because the media is notorious for calling semi-autos "automatic
guns" when there's a world of difference between two.
I don't know that it makes a hell of a lot of difference if the
technology is used in a school -- even if someone is walking around with
a plastic toy gun it will create widespread panic.
Wnat will become of Gideon Reeves?
Mayor Johnson to end ShotSpotter deal after summer, making good on key >campaign promise
After Sun-Times first reported the decision, Johnson issued a statement >saying the city "will decommission" the gunshot detection system on
Sept. 22, meaning cops will have access to it throughout the violent
summer months and the Democratic National Convention.
By Tom Schuba and Fran Spielman
Chicago Sun-Times
Feb 13, 2024, 10:41am CST >https://chicago.suntimes.com/2024/02/13/mayor-johnson-to-end-shotspotter-deal-after-summer
Note that Johnson's brand new police commissioner said publicly that he >wanted the contract renewed.
Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
Wnat will become of Gideon Reeves?
Mayor Johnson to end ShotSpotter deal after summer, making good on key >campaign promise
After Sun-Times first reported the decision, Johnson issued a statement >saying the city "will decommission" the gunshot detection system on
Sept. 22, meaning cops will have access to it throughout the violent
summer months and the Democratic National Convention.
By Tom Schuba and Fran Spielman
Chicago Sun-Times
Feb 13, 2024, 10:41am CST >https://chicago.suntimes.com/2024/02/13/mayor-johnson-to-end-shotspotter-deal
-after-summer
Note that Johnson's brand new police commissioner said publicly that he >wanted the contract renewed.
Johnson is unbelievable. The ShotSpotter contract ended February 16,
2024. In the years that Chicago police have been using it, it got fully integrated into police dispatching systems.
Johnson made a campaign promise to end its use, then since he became
mayor, did nothing about changing police dispatching to a system without ShotSpotter integration. Then his brand new police commissioner said
publicly he wanted to retain the contract, which sure made it seem like Johnson changed his mind. Again.
Instead of sticking with things he's said, Johnson has a pattern of equivocating; ShotSpotter is no different. He's afraid to move in any particular direction, so he pisses off allies plus everyone who
disagrees with him.
In this case, he made things even worse than usual. When he made his announcement February 13 that the contract would be extended till a few
weeks after the Democratic National Convention, he was LYING. He hadn't entered into a contract negotiation. The owner of ShotSpotter was
infuriated with the city. Their stock price had just dropped, and they
were in no mood to do Johnson this favor.
The contract extension wasn't actually entered into till the afternoon
of the day it was set to expire.
Wnat will become of Gideon Reeves?
Mayor Johnson to end ShotSpotter deal after summer, making good on key >campaign promise
After Sun-Times first reported the decision, Johnson issued a statement >saying the city "will decommission" the gunshot detection system on
Sept. 22, meaning cops will have access to it throughout the violent
summer months and the Democratic National Convention.
By Tom Schuba and Fran Spielman
Chicago Sun-Times
Feb 13, 2024, 10:41am CST >https://chicago.suntimes.com/2024/02/13/mayor-johnson-to-end-shotspotter-deal-after-summer
Note that Johnson's brand new police commissioner said publicly that he >wanted the contract renewed.
Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
Wnat will become of Gideon Reeves?
Mayor Johnson to end ShotSpotter deal after summer, making good on
key campaign promise
After Sun-Times first reported the decision, Johnson issued a
statement saying the city "will decommission" the gunshot detection
system on Sept. 22, meaning cops will have access to it throughout
the violent summer months and the Democratic National Convention.
By Tom Schuba and Fran Spielman
Chicago Sun-Times
Feb 13, 2024, 10:41am CST >https://chicago.suntimes.com/2024/02/13/mayor-johnson-to-end-shotspotter-deal-after-summer
Note that Johnson's brand new police commissioner said publicly that
he wanted the contract renewed.
Whoops
Police, again defying Mayor Brandon Johnson (I have no idea how it is
that none of the executive department heads report to Johnson) publish statistics that police response was FASTER with a ShotSpotter alert
alone, two minutes slower with a ShotSpotter alert and a 911 call for
the same incident, and almost another minute slower with a 911 call
but no ShotSpotter alert.
https://chicago.suntimes.com/city-hall/2024/05/01/shotspotter-response-times-911-call-chicago-police-statistics-city-council-contract-mayor-johnson
Wed, 1 May 2024 22:19:02 -0000 (UTC) Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>:
Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
Wnat will become of Gideon Reeves?
Mayor Johnson to end ShotSpotter deal after summer, making good on
key campaign promise
After Sun-Times first reported the decision, Johnson issued a
statement saying the city "will decommission" the gunshot detection >>>system on Sept. 22, meaning cops will have access to it throughout
the violent summer months and the Democratic National Convention.
By Tom Schuba and Fran Spielman
Chicago Sun-Times
Feb 13, 2024, 10:41am CST >>>https://chicago.suntimes.com/2024/02/13/mayor-johnson-to-end-shotspotter-deal-after-summer
Note that Johnson's brand new police commissioner said publicly that
he wanted the contract renewed.
Whoops
Police, again defying Mayor Brandon Johnson (I have no idea how it is
that none of the executive department heads report to Johnson) publish >>statistics that police response was FASTER with a ShotSpotter alert
alone, two minutes slower with a ShotSpotter alert and a 911 call for
the same incident, and almost another minute slower with a 911 call
but no ShotSpotter alert.
https://chicago.suntimes.com/city-hall/2024/05/01/shotspotter-response-times-911-call-chicago-police-statistics-city-council-contract-mayor-johnson
I don't understand why the mayor wants to dump ShotSpotter. I could
only read the first couple of paragraphs of the story without a
subscription.
Johnson seems to be another "progressive" activist type so I'm guessing
he sees something racist in technology that is going to get police to
scenes of shootings faster because more black people are going to get >arrested, upsetting his base. Of course he's unlikely to actually say
that and would cloak it in some other improbable argument.
https://chicago.suntimes.com/city-hall/2024/05/01/shotspotter-response-times-911-call-chicago-police-statistics-city-council-contract-mayor-johnson
I don't understand why the mayor wants to dump ShotSpotter. I could
only read the first couple of paragraphs of the story without a
subscription.
Johnson seems to be another "progressive" activist type so I'm guessing
he sees something racist in technology that is going to get police to
scenes of shootings faster because more black people are going to get >arrested, upsetting his base. Of course he's unlikely to actually say
that and would cloak it in some other improbable argument.
Thu, 2 May 2024 18:33:45 -0400, Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com>:
https://chicago.suntimes.com/city-hall/2024/05/01/shotspotter-response-times-911-call-chicago-police-statistics-city-council-contract-mayor-johnson
I don't understand why the mayor wants to dump ShotSpotter. I could
only read the first couple of paragraphs of the story without a >>subscription.
Johnson seems to be another "progressive" activist type so I'm guessing
he sees something racist in technology that is going to get police to >>scenes of shootings faster because more black people are going to get >>arrested, upsetting his base. Of course he's unlikely to actually say
that and would cloak it in some other improbable argument.
Which to me is strange since presumably this service is also tied in
to the local 911 service which in MOST communities is also tied in to
the ambulance dispatcher (it certainly is in my town). Most of us
would consider getting ambulances to where they need to go a plus, no? >PARTICULARLY if it involves a shooting.
To me this is as personal as it gets since as on 30 Jan 2005 my mother
was run over by a runaway RV and while the ambulance came, she died
literally on the doorsteps of the hospital - leaving my family always >wondering if a faster response might have saved her.
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