• Fall of the Roman Empire(1964) vs. Gladiator(2000)

    From Eva Wolves@21:1/5 to All on Sun Sep 5 21:10:56 2021
    While I agree Stephen Boyd as not a good choice looking back in hindsight the man is actually a very capable actor. There's a reason why his performance as Massala n Ben-Hurt is still seen as some of the greatest villainry ever n cinema. The problem with
    Boyd IMO is that he lacked experience in a lead role esp in a big epic like this. He may not be the best actor as how he as unable to make a comeback in Hollywood but later roles in European cinema still showed he had it as an actor.

    As for the casting of the female lead, while Natalie Wood was a great acress I do not think she'd be able to handle Fall of the Roman Empire esp with its script and other flaws. She lacked experience in historical epics and was too used to other genres.


    The casting of Sophia Loren was a completely obvious one even looking back in hindsight for how weak it was compared to the film. SOphia Loren as the first non-English actress to win the Best Actress in the Oscar and more importantly than anything else,
    she had worked for the producer of the movie Samuel Bronston for years in a couple of box office hits. So even with all the mistakes made with the film, I wouldn't be surprised if Samuel still chose Sophia Loren. Esp since she isn't even weak in terms of
    her acting in the movie since her resume goe far beyond Boyd both before the film and afterwards and does brilliance n later stuff like Man of La MAncha wth Peter O'Toole......

    The bigger issue is the very weak acting direction. Its not the worst but its not strong enough. By itself it isn't bad but hen combined with the script and other flaws of the movie combined with troubled somewhat rushed production and esp with how
    despite being legitimately skilled actors both Boyd and Loren are not high enough caliber esp n proportion to the movie's massive production values and epic scale and the factor they are the leads to make up for weak direction on their own, it devastates
    the film's quality. Add to the relatively weak (compared to other romance movies like Audrey Hepburn and Albert Finley in Two For the Road) onscreen portrayal of Livius and Lucilla Romane hich makes up a core premise behind the movie it was no surprised
    the movie underperformed.

    If I were to replace the lead, Peter O'Toole is the BEST MALE lead. NO need to change Sophia Loren........ Because O'Toole basically acted as the same archetype that Livius as in the Miniseries Masada where he plays Filvius Silva but he also played the
    disillusioned idealist to legendary levels in his breakout role as Lawrence of Arabia (considered to this day as one of the greatest movie performances ever despite O'Toole not ultimately winning in the Oscar nominations). Add in his role as King Henry
    in The Lion of the Winter (also nominated for best actor and it was an upset he lost in the Academy Awards) where family issues and political struggle is the core o the story (even if he played the role of a father and not brother) and the role of Livius
    is perfect for O'Toole even with the flawed script and everything else......

    And O'Toole is why there s no need to replace Sophia Loren-another widely praised performance is his role as Don Quixote in Man of La Mancha outside of singing bits where Sophia is his lead lady. Despite the story not being a direct romance Sophia and
    Peter has incredble chemistry and breathtaking performances. O'Toole in the movie doesn't spend his time wooing Loren and Loren asn' even interested ina romance. But the chemistry of sexual tensions is there and you begin to see hot brain wires as they
    ineract together. The scrip has Sophia fall for O'Toole's role in the end but taht isn't the focus of the story unlike Fall of the Roman Empire--yet the chemistry soo perfect you feel hot sizzzles between them by their final scenes together.

    So with a story focused on romance and esp epic scale, O'Toole would not only make up BOyd's underwhelmng perfoormances but the romance between Livius and Lucilla will truly flourish if Loren is casted wth a performer as strong as he is. Esp since irl O'
    Tool has a power to charm legendarily gorgeous women including those who don't end up romantically interested with him or even see him as their physical type such as Audrey Hepburn. Sophia crtaily thought he had charm in La Mancha and e are not even
    counting the fact irl he as a womanizer..............

    I can go on and on but I'll stop because I really lack aith people will respond to this post esp since this is a 10 year old discussion. Hopefully someone replies and I can send more 2 cents!

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  • From gggg gggg@21:1/5 to Eva Wolves on Sun Sep 5 21:57:02 2021
    On Sunday, September 5, 2021 at 9:10:58 PM UTC-7, Eva Wolves wrote:
    While I agree Stephen Boyd as not a good choice looking back in hindsight the man is actually a very capable actor. There's a reason why his performance as Massala n Ben-Hurt is still seen as some of the greatest villainry ever n cinema. The problem
    with Boyd IMO is that he lacked experience in a lead role esp in a big epic like this. He may not be the best actor as how he as unable to make a comeback in Hollywood but later roles in European cinema still showed he had it as an actor.

    As for the casting of the female lead, while Natalie Wood was a great acress I do not think she'd be able to handle Fall of the Roman Empire esp with its script and other flaws. She lacked experience in historical epics and was too used to other genres.



    The casting of Sophia Loren was a completely obvious one even looking back in hindsight for how weak it was compared to the film. SOphia Loren as the first non-English actress to win the Best Actress in the Oscar and more importantly than anything else,
    she had worked for the producer of the movie Samuel Bronston for years in a couple of box office hits. So even with all the mistakes made with the film, I wouldn't be surprised if Samuel still chose Sophia Loren. Esp since she isn't even weak in terms
    of her acting in the movie since her resume goe far beyond Boyd both before the film and afterwards and does brilliance n later stuff like Man of La MAncha wth Peter O'Toole......

    The bigger issue is the very weak acting direction. Its not the worst but its not strong enough. By itself it isn't bad but hen combined with the script and other flaws of the movie combined with troubled somewhat rushed production and esp with how
    despite being legitimately skilled actors both Boyd and Loren are not high enough caliber esp n proportion to the movie's massive production values and epic scale and the factor they are the leads to make up for weak direction on their own, it devastates
    the film's quality. Add to the relatively weak (compared to other romance movies like Audrey Hepburn and Albert Finley in Two For the Road) onscreen portrayal of Livius and Lucilla Romane hich makes up a core premise behind the movie it was no surprised
    the movie underperformed.

    If I were to replace the lead, Peter O'Toole is the BEST MALE lead. NO need to change Sophia Loren........ Because O'Toole basically acted as the same archetype that Livius as in the Miniseries Masada where he plays Filvius Silva but he also played the
    disillusioned idealist to legendary levels in his breakout role as Lawrence of Arabia (considered to this day as one of the greatest movie performances ever despite O'Toole not ultimately winning in the Oscar nominations). Add in his role as King Henry
    in The Lion of the Winter (also nominated for best actor and it was an upset he lost in the Academy Awards) where family issues and political struggle is the core o the story (even if he played the role of a father and not brother) and the role of Livius
    is perfect for O'Toole even with the flawed script and everything else......

    And O'Toole is why there s no need to replace Sophia Loren-another widely praised performance is his role as Don Quixote in Man of La Mancha outside of singing bits where Sophia is his lead lady. Despite the story not being a direct romance Sophia and
    Peter has incredble chemistry and breathtaking performances. O'Toole in the movie doesn't spend his time wooing Loren and Loren asn' even interested ina romance. But the chemistry of sexual tensions is there and you begin to see hot brain wires as they
    ineract together. The scrip has Sophia fall for O'Toole's role in the end but taht isn't the focus of the story unlike Fall of the Roman Empire--yet the chemistry soo perfect you feel hot sizzzles between them by their final scenes together.

    So with a story focused on romance and esp epic scale, O'Toole would not only make up BOyd's underwhelmng perfoormances but the romance between Livius and Lucilla will truly flourish if Loren is casted wth a performer as strong as he is. Esp since irl
    O'Tool has a power to charm legendarily gorgeous women including those who don't end up romantically interested with him or even see him as their physical type such as Audrey Hepburn. Sophia crtaily thought he had charm in La Mancha and e are not even
    counting the fact irl he as a womanizer..............

    I can go on and on but I'll stop because I really lack aith people will respond to this post esp since this is a 10 year old discussion. Hopefully someone replies and I can send more 2 cents!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fall_of_the_Roman_Empire_(film)#Reception

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