• MT VOID, 09/24/21 -- Vol. 40, No. 13, Whole Number 2190

    From evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Sun Sep 26 05:16:44 2021
    THE MT VOID
    Mt. Holz Science Fiction Society
    09/24/21 -- Vol. 40, No. 13, Whole Number 2190

    Co-Editor: Mark Leeper, mleeper@optonline.net
    Co-Editor: Evelyn Leeper, eleeper@optonline.net
    Sending Address: evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com
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    Topics:
    Major Correction (and Apologies to Fred Lerner) (comments
    by Evelyn C. Leeper)
    Science Fiction (and Other) Discussion Groups, Films,
    Lectures, etc. (NJ)
    My Picks for Turner Classic Movies in October (comments
    by Mark R. Leeper [and Evelyn C. Leeper])
    Stanislav Yevgrafovich Petrov (comments by Evelyn C. Leeper)
    CAPTAIN VIDEO (comments by Gregory Frederick)
    MOONRAKER (letters of comment by Gary McGath, Scott Dorsey,
    Keith F. Lynch, Tim Merrigan, Dorothy J. Heydt,
    and John Kerr-Mudd)
    The "Foundation Trilogy" (letter of comment by Jim Susky)
    The Hugo Awards, YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE, and Complications
    (letter of comment by John Hertz)
    This Week's Reading (VERITAS) (book comments
    by Evelyn C. Leeper)

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: Major Correction (and Apologies to Fred Lerner) (comments by
    Evelyn C. Leeper)

    Well, I managed to type in what he said completely backward!

    Fred Lerner writes:

    I'm afraid that you misquoted me in this issue. You have me saying
    "However, Fred notes, 'neither the galleys ... nor the published
    book itself lay claim to be other than straight fiction.'"

    What I actually wrote was "straight history". My article makes
    considerably more sense that way! [-fl]

    ARGGH! [-ecl]

    [Paul Dormer also pointed out that what I typed made no sense.]

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: Science Fiction (and Other) Discussion Groups, Films,
    Lectures, etc. (NJ)

    Both groups have returned to the B.C. (Before Covid) schedules, and
    the films will be shown as part of the Middletown meetings.

    October 7 (MTPL), 5:30PM: ANNIHILATION (2018) & novel
    by Jeff VanderMeer (2014)
    <https://readbooksnovel.com/annihilation/page-1-2885/>
    November 4 (MTPL), 5:30PM: Halloween Horror TBD
    November 18 (**NOTE DATE SHIFT**) (OBPL), 7:00PM: TBD

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: My Picks for Turner Classic Movies in October (comments by
    Mark R. Leeper)

    THE FLY (1958) is a film with a premise that really should not work
    for 21st century viewers, but if one looks closely at it one sees
    it is built on a framework of Oedipus Rex. A scientist has
    everything he would want out of life. But, as Vincent Price tells
    us, for one moment he, the scientist, was careless. He is turned
    into a shocking monster. THE FLY was an unusual horror film with
    no villains, only victims. It also has well-defined characters and
    genuine pathos. 20th Century Fox expected THE FLY to be a
    summertime adventure for the kids. But they gave it high
    production values including beautiful color and script by James
    Clavell who later wrote the novel SHOGUN.

    The film was directed by Kurt Neumann who counted among his films
    several low-budget Tarzan movies, ROCKETSHIP X-M, and more recently
    for Fox SHE DEVIL and KRONOS. With the possible exception of
    KRONOS, there is not much there to suggest that he could have been
    responsible for how well THE FLY resonated with audiences. More
    likely it is the mythic elements from the story. THE FLY is based
    on a short story by George Langelaan that appeared in Playboy
    magazine.

    [THE FLY (1958), October 30, 6:15PM]

    [-mrl]

    Evelyn adds:

    October is, as usual, a big month on TCM for horror films, and by
    extension, science fiction films as well. Some of these have
    horror elements (is CURSE OF FRANKENSTEIN a science fiction film,
    or a horror film?), but many are also just straight science
    fiction. I'll also mention some non-fantastical films worth
    seeing.

    There is a Fay Wray festival (with a few non-Fay-Wray films; the
    Fay Wray films are asterisked), with two of the films made at the
    same time:
    10/01/2021 06:00 AM King Kong (1933)*
    10/01/2021 08:00 AM The Most Dangerous Game (1932)*
    10/01/2021 09:15 AM The Vampire Bat (1933)*
    10/01/2021 10:30 AM The Testament of Dr. Mabuse (1933)
    10/01/2021 12:45 PM White Zombie (1932)
    10/01/2021 02:00 PM Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde (1932)
    10/01/2021 03:45 PM Mystery of the Wax Museum (1933)*
    10/01/2021 05:15 PM Doctor X (1932)*
    10/01/2021 06:45 PM Freaks (1932)

    There is an entire evening devoted to the centenary of Fleischer
    Brothers animation:
    10/02/2021 08:00 PM Cartoon Carnival (2021)
    10/02/2021 09:45 PM 100th Anniversary of Fleischer Animation
    Part 1: The Silent Era (2021) 10/02/2021 10:45 PM 100th Anniversary of Fleischer Animation
    Part 2: The Sound Era (2021)

    There is a new documentary about Francis X. Bushman09/18/21 the
    star of the silent BEN-HUR, followed by the silent BEN-HUR, which
    in my opinion has a more exciting chariot race than the Charleton
    Heston version:
    10/04/2021 12:30 AM This Is Francis X. Bushman (2021)
    10/04/2021 02:00 AM Ben-Hur (1925)

    There are all the Val Lewton horror films except THE LEOPARD MAN
    (which does show up twice later in the month):
    10/04/2021 08:00 AM Bedlam (1946)
    10/04/2021 09:30 AM The Body Snatcher (1945)
    10/04/2021 11:00 AM Isle of the Dead (1945)
    10/04/2021 12:30 PM The Curse of the Cat People (1944)
    10/04/2021 02:00 PM The Ghost Ship (1943)
    10/04/2021 03:15 PM I Walked with a Zombie (1943)
    10/04/2021 04:30 PM The Seventh Victim (1943)
    10/04/2021 06:00 PM Cat People (1942)

    There is another evening of classic post-war Italian films:
    10/05/2021 08:00 PM Open City (1946)
    10/05/2021 10:00 PM La Strada (1954) (re-runs 10/25/2021
    02:00 AM)
    10/06/2021 12:00 AM The Sound of Trumpets (1961)
    10/06/2021 01:45 AM Eclipse (1962)
    10/06/2021 04:00 AM I Knew Her Well (1965)
    10/06/2021 06:15 AM Mamma Roma (1962)

    And later the French classic:
    10/25/2021 06:00 PM The Rules of the Game (1939)

    Another day of science fiction:
    10/06/2021 08:15 AM 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968)
    10/06/2021 10:45 AM 2010 (1984)
    10/06/2021 12:45 PM Forbidden Planet (1956)
    10/06/2021 02:30 PM The Invisible Boy (1957)
    10/06/2021 04:15 PM The Terminal Man (1974)
    10/06/2021 06:15 PM Deadly Friend (1986)

    Then there is:
    10/09/2021 08:00 PM Fantastic Voyage (1966)
    10/09/2021 11:30 PM A Look at the World of "Soylent Green"
    (1973)
    but weirdly, they are not running the film SOYLENT GREEN.

    An afternoon of horror films:
    10/14/2021 11:00 AM M (1931)
    10/14/2021 02:45 PM Seance on a Wet Afternoon (1964)
    10/14/2021 04:45 PM Eyes Without a Face (1959)
    10/14/2021 06:30 PM House of Wax (1953)

    A vampire day:
    10/21/2021 07:45 AM Dracula--Prince of Darkness (1965)
    10/21/2021 09:30 AM Frankenstein Created Woman (1967)
    10/21/2021 01:00 PM Frankenstein Must Be Destroyed (1970)
    10/21/2021 02:45 PM Taste the Blood of Dracula (1970)
    10/21/2021 06:15 PM Dracula A.D. 1972 (1972)
    10/22/2021 04:45 PM The Bat (1959)

    A "day of the animals":
    10/26/2021 06:30 AM Razorback (1984)
    10/26/2021 08:30 AM The Swarm (1978)
    10/26/2021 11:15 AM The Pack (1977)
    10/26/2021 01:00 PM Rattlers (1976)
    10/26/2021 02:45 PM Night of the Lepus (1972)
    10/26/2021 04:30 PM The Killer Shrews (1959)
    10/26/2021 06:15 PM Them! (1954)

    A tribute to Universal horror films:
    10/27/2021 08:00 PM Carl Laemmle (2019)
    10/27/2021 09:45 PM Dracula (1931)
    10/28/2021 01:45 AM Carl Laemmle (2019)
    10/28/2021 03:30 AM The Phantom of the Opera (1925)
    10/28/2021 05:00 AM Frankenstein (1931)

    And starting on October 29, an almost non-stop horror fest:
    10/29/2021 08:00 PM The Abominable Dr. Phibes (1971)
    10/29/2021 10:00 PM Night of the Living Dead (1968)
    10/30/2021 12:00 AM Invasion of the Body Snatchers (1978)
    10/30/2021 03:45 AM Exorcist II: The Heretic (1977)
    10/30/2021 05:45 AM Creature From the Haunted Sea (1961)
    10/30/2021 06:45 AM The Hypnotic Eye (1960)
    10/30/2021 08:15 AM Chamber of Horrors (1966)
    10/30/2021 10:00 AM Spider Baby (1964)
    10/30/2021 11:30 AM The Devil's Own (1966)
    10/30/2021 01:15 PM The Curse of Frankenstein (1957)
    10/30/2021 02:45 PM The Haunting (1963)
    10/30/2021 04:45 PM The Tomb of Ligeia (1965)
    10/30/2021 06:15 PM The Fly (1958)
    10/30/2021 08:00 PM Frankenstein (1931)
    10/30/2021 09:30 PM Young Frankenstein (1974)
    10/31/2021 12:00 AM Cat People (1942)
    10/31/2021 01:30 AM The Leopard Man (1943)
    10/31/2021 04:30 AM Carnival of Souls (1962)
    10/31/2021 06:00 AM Phantom of the Rue Morgue (1954)
    10/31/2021 07:30 AM Macabre (1958)
    10/31/2021 08:45 AM White Zombie (1932)
    10/31/2021 10:00 AM Cat People (1942)
    10/31/2021 11:30 AM The Leopard Man (1943)
    10/31/2021 12:45 PM Mad Love (1935)
    10/31/2021 03:30 PM The Pit and the Pendulum (1961)
    10/31/2021 05:00 PM Curse of the Demon (1958)
    10/31/2021 06:30 PM Horror Hotel (1960)
    11/01/2021 01:00 AM Metropolis (1926)
    11/01/2021 03:45 AM Vampyr (1932)
    11/01/2021 05:15 AM Haxan (1922)

    And some miscellaneous offerings:
    10/09/2021 04:45 AM Schizoid (1980)
    10/09/2021 06:15 AM Dementia 13 (1963)
    10/10/2021 08:00 PM The Bad Seed (1956)
    10/10/2021 10:15 PM It's Alive (1974)
    10/11/2021 06:00 PM Arsenic and Old Lace (1944)
    10/15/2021 06:15 PM Carnival of Souls (1962)
    10/16/2021 06:00 AM Ghosts--Italian Style (1969)
    10/17/2021 08:00 PM Poltergeist (1982)
    10/17/2021 10:00 PM Burnt Offerings (1976)
    10/18/2021 02:30 AM Stalker (1979)
    10/19/2021 03:45 PM The Crimson Pirate (1952)
    10/19/2021 06:15 PM The Ice Pirates (1984)
    10/20/2021 06:15 PM Blithe Spirit (1945)
    10/21/2021 06:00 AM The Nanny (1965)
    10/22/2021 06:15 PM House on Haunted Hill (1958)
    10/22/2021 08:00 PM Jason And The Argonauts (1963)
    10/23/2021 06:00 AM The Mummy's Shroud (1967)
    10/23/2021 12:00 PM Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde (1941)
    10/24/2021 08:00 PM What Ever Happened to Baby Jane? (1962)
    10/25/2021 12:15 AM The Monster (1925)

    [-ecl]

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: Stanislav Yevgrafovich Petrov (comments by Evelyn C. Leeper)

    On 26 September 1983, Stanislav Yevgrafovich Petrov probably
    averted nuclear war. Shortly after the Soviet military had shot
    down Korean Air Lines Flight 007, the Soviet nuclear early-warning
    system reported that a missile had been launched from the United
    States. As Wikipedia describes it, "Petrov judged the reports to
    be a false alarm, and his decision to disobey orders, against
    Soviet military protocol, is credited with having prevented an
    erroneous retaliatory nuclear attack on the United States and its
    NATO allies that could have resulted in a large-scale nuclear war."

    So on Sunday, raise a glass to Stanislav Yevgrafovich Petrov.

    [See also Vasily Aleksandrovich Arkhipov and the Cuban Missile
    Crisis.]

    [-ecl]

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: CAPTAIN VIDEO (comments by Gregory Frederick)

    I was surprised to find out that many famous SF writers wrote
    episodes of CAPTAIN VIDEO. That old SF television show even had
    one of my favorites, Jack Vance, writing for it. And he usually
    had very little to do with writing for television or any films.
    It's hard to even find any books written by Vance used as the basis
    for any films. BAD RONALD is one exception. CAPTAIN VIDEO was
    filmed in the film studio of a department store and their props
    sometimes were things they found in the store to use. Below is a
    list of the writers for CAPTAIN VIDEO. That show and other early
    50's SF television were before my time so I never watched them.

    Writers include:

    Damon Knight
    James Blish
    Jack Vance
    Arthur C. Clarke
    Isaac Asimov
    Cyril M. Kornbluth
    Milt Lesser
    Walter M. Miller, Jr.
    Robert Sheckley
    J. T. McIntosh
    Robert S. Richardson
    Maurice C. Brachhausen (M. C. Brock)

    [-gf]

    Mark responds:

    I was vaguely aware that some famous SF authors got their start
    writing for early SF television.

    It had to be simple SF for the kiddoes to understand. Much was
    cowboy stuff with six-guns becoming blasters, etc. I think I liked
    it but I don't remember much. I would have been about two or three
    years old, but I think I remember bits. The "Star Trek" animated
    series also had several stories by popular authors. [-mrl]

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: MOONRAKER (letters of comment by Gary McGath, Scott Dorsey,
    Keith F. Lynch, Tim Merrigan, Dorothy J. Heydt, and John Kerr-Mudd)

    In response to Mark's comments on MOONRAKER in the 09/17/21 issue
    of the MT VOID, Gary McGath writes:

    When the movie came out, there was a novelization of it. The movie
    was (however loosely) based on an Ian Fleming novel of the same
    title. Maybe they could make another movie of the novelization,
    and then novelize that? [-gmg]

    Scott Dorsey asks:

    Didn't Disney do that with THE JUNGLE BOOK? [-sd]

    Keith F. Lynch replies:

    They, or someone, certainly did with the 1967 version. I don't know
    about the remakes. I don't remember the author, not having read the
    book or seen the movie in 54 years, but I know it wasn't Kipling.

    Gary responds:

    A search turns up a "novelization" of the 1994 version which is
    actually a ten-page children's book. It credits Kipling as a co-
    author, which I think compounds the crime. [-gmg]

    Tim Merrigan notes:

    I've read the original novel(*), and the only similarities to the
    movie, or, presumably, the mobilization, which I haven't read, was
    the title, and that James Bond was in it.

    In the book, Moonraker is a V-2, or equivalent, being set up
    somewhere (I forget, it's been a while) in the west of England,
    targeted at London. (It really should have been an MI-5, rather
    than MI-6, problem.)

    * One of the two James Bond books I've read, the other was CASINO
    ROYALE. [-tm]

    And Dorothy J. Heydt writes:

    Speaking of FORBIDDEN PLANET, which we were doing a week or so ago,
    that film got a novelization after the fact. (It stank. I think
    I've still got a copy, Cat knows why.) [-djh]

    Evelyn notes:

    The novelization of FORBIDDEN PLANET was credited to W. J. Stuart,
    a pen name for Philip MacDonald, primarily known as a mystery
    writer (and not to be confused with John D. MacDonald). [-ecl]

    And regarding the title, John Kerr-Mudd writes:

    A Moonraker was a West Country smuggler (or bunch of them) who were
    recovering some smuggled goods that they'd stashed in a pond. When
    spotted doing so by the Revenue/local cops they claimed to be
    Moonraking - trying to catch the image of the moon reflected on the
    pond, so were left alone as a bunch of stupid yokels.

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonrakers> says it better than my
    attempt. [-jkm]

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: The "Foundation Trilogy" (letter of comment by Jim Susky)

    In response to Evelyn's comments on THE MARTIAN CHRONICLES in the
    09/17/21 issue of the MT VOID, Jim Susky writes:

    In the 2021SEP17 MT VOID, Evelyn wrote (in the lead-up to a notice
    on THE MARTIAN CHRONICLES mini-series):

    "THE MARTIAN CHRONICLES is not a novel. (Or maybe it is in the
    sense that we talk about a "fix-up novel"--after all, we talk about
    the "Foundation Trilogy" as three novels, but none of the books is
    a novel.)"

    So now I have a "bone to pick" albeit a trivial one:

    Fans of the Good Doctor, especially those who read his two-volume,
    800,000-word auto-biography, are aware that the "Foundation"
    stories (all of them?) were first published, over a decade or so,
    in Campbell's rag, then in collections. Yet I suspect the vast
    majority of readers (well over 95% including the redoubtable
    Leepers) read them bound together as "novels".

    (Another triviality--that "95%" could be validated with some
    counting of "editions" and estimates of Astounding subscription
    figures--with suitable overlaps and reader/issue multipliers.)

    May I pose a rhetorical question? Is THE PICKWICK PAPERS "a
    novel"? What about OLIVER TWIST? NICHOLAS NICKELBY? All were
    serials--see the wiki entry for Charles Dickens:

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Dickens>

    You could say that these were rolled out in the same way that in-
    arguable "novels" have been for decades in ANALOG (what ASTOUNDING
    was called when I was a but mere whelp).

    But NO! That Dickens entry states:

    "The installment format allowed Dickens to evaluate his audience's
    reaction, and he often modified his plot and character development
    based on such feedback."

    There may be more meat on this bone--I am confident others will
    weigh in. [-js]

    Evelyn responds:

    The Dickens novels were serialized novels; a single chapter would
    not stand alone. The "Foundation" stories were eight individual
    stories, published over a span of nine years, and--while set in the
    same universe--had no real through-thread and could stand
    individually.

    Similarly, ACCELERANDO by Charles Stross is (IMHO) a collection of
    stories, not a novel.

    Or will you now say that (for example) the twenty-one volumes set
    in C. J. Cherryh's "Foreigner" universe are a single novel? [-ecl]

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: The Hugo Awards, YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE, and Complications
    (letter of comment by John Hertz)

    In response to various items, John Hertz writes:

    John Purcell in Issue 2179, 9 Jul 21, joins those who fold their
    arms while a body falls. then look where it struck and cry "What a
    mess the street is in this neighborhood!" The Hugo Awards are what
    we make them. When we fail to nominate, the ballot is the work of
    those who do nominate. If the result is that we think everything
    in a category is unworthy we are left with voting "No Award".

    Mark's complaint (Issue 2181, 23 Jul) that the James Bond film YOU
    ONLY LIVE TWICE should have been entitled YOU LIVE ONLY TWICE
    disregards the poem Bond composes in the book (ch. 11). The poem
    says, not that a person has only two lives, but that there are only
    two moments when a person is really alive. In having Bond compose
    it the author well points to the ennui Bond is suffering from.

    Thank you for ending that issue, in which you print my letter
    observing that the Marquis de Custine who said the circumstances of
    human society were too complicated lived millennia before Hari
    Seldon, by quoting John von Neumann's saying people who don't
    believe math is simple fail to realize the complications of life it
    expresses. [-jh]

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: This Week's Reading (book and film comments by Evelyn C.
    Leeper)

    VERITAS: A HARVARD PROFESSOR, A CON MAN, AND THE GOSPEL OF JESUS'S
    WIFE by Ariel Sabar (Doubleday, ISBN 978-0-385-54258-6) is yet
    another book about forgery, which you have probably figured out is
    an interest of mine. In this case, the items in question are not
    paintings or even Mormon manuscripts, but Coptic papyri which
    appear to be previously unknown Gnostic gospels or other writings
    that would subvert the official accounts. (Originally it was only
    the Gospel of Jesus's Wife, but tracing its origins led to the
    belief that other, previously accept, papyri were also forged.)

    The con man, Walter Fritz, seems to be somewhat sloppy in a number
    of ways in his forgery, and in the forging of the provenance of it,
    but the target of his forgeries, Professor Karen King, is also
    sloppy in that he desire for the works to be authentic makes her
    cut corners in testing the age of the papyri, the make-up of the
    ink, the style of the writing, or even the grammar of the Coptic.
    These details are what I found the most interesting. For example,
    the papyrus is a fragment from the center of a page and written in
    the style that has no spaces and ignores line breaks, yet there are
    no partial letters, but rather gaps at the ends of lines, as if the
    writer knew he did not have enough room to write the whole letter.

    Unfortunately, Sabar spends a lot of time on irrelevant details,
    e.g., what the scenery looked like as he drove to talk to someone
    in Florida, or how the professor spent a year of high school with a
    Norwegian family. It's a convoluted enough tale without adding
    this, or backgrounds for the many peripheral characters.
    Eventually, I started doing what Mark has called "cheat-reading"--
    reading just the first sentences of each paragraph. This was after
    the tangled tale of the background of the papyri had been revealed
    and all the details that indicated it was a forgery, and was mostly
    the part about the aftermath. Still, if you're willing to get
    through all the peripheral details, the detection part is
    definitely fascinating. [-ecl]

    ===================================================================

    Mark Leeper
    mleeper@optonline.net


    One picture is worth 1,000 denials.
    --Ronald Reagan

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gary McGath@21:1/5 to eleeper@optonline.net on Sun Sep 26 10:57:23 2021
    On 9/26/21 8:16 AM, eleeper@optonline.net wrote:
    TOPIC: Stanislav Yevgrafovich Petrov (comments by Evelyn C. Leeper)

    On 26 September 1983, Stanislav Yevgrafovich Petrov probably
    averted nuclear war. Shortly after the Soviet military had shot
    down Korean Air Lines Flight 007, the Soviet nuclear early-warning
    system reported that a missile had been launched from the United
    States. As Wikipedia describes it, "Petrov judged the reports to
    be a false alarm, and his decision to disobey orders, against
    Soviet military protocol, is credited with having prevented an
    erroneous retaliatory nuclear attack on the United States and its
    NATO allies that could have resulted in a large-scale nuclear war."

    So on Sunday, raise a glass to Stanislav Yevgrafovich Petrov.

    The notification Petrov got said there were five missiles. Even with
    that number, the lack of any additional ones made him suspicious. I have
    a song about him:

    http://www.mcgath.com/songs/StanislavPetrov.pdf

    --
    Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul Dormer@21:1/5 to evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com on Sun Sep 26 15:31:00 2021
    In article <899bb0f7-815f-4e53-a84b-9ddc6522bcd4n@googlegroups.com>, evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com () wrote:


    Mark's complaint (Issue 2181, 23 Jul) that the James Bond film YOU
    ONLY LIVE TWICE should have been entitled YOU LIVE ONLY TWICE
    disregards the poem Bond composes in the book (ch. 11). The poem
    says, not that a person has only two lives, but that there are only
    two moments when a person is really alive. In having Bond compose
    it the author well points to the ennui Bond is suffering from.

    Reminds me of an exchange reported in a paper many years ago. When
    examining some report in committee, the Labour MP Ian Mikardo pointed out
    that the word "only" was in the wrong place. A Tory on the committee
    (probably went to Eton and Oxford or Cambridge) suggest he should also
    take Ben Jonson to task for "Drink to me only with thine eyes."

    Mikardo (left school at an early age) pointed out that Jonson meant drink
    to me with thine eyes and not with a pint of beer. Drink only to me
    would me mean drink to me and not the barmaid at the Dog and Duck.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tim Merrigan@21:1/5 to garym@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com on Sun Sep 26 15:42:06 2021
    On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 10:57:23 -0400, Gary McGath
    <garym@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com> wrote:

    On 9/26/21 8:16 AM, eleeper@optonline.net wrote:
    TOPIC: Stanislav Yevgrafovich Petrov (comments by Evelyn C. Leeper)

    On 26 September 1983, Stanislav Yevgrafovich Petrov probably
    averted nuclear war. Shortly after the Soviet military had shot
    down Korean Air Lines Flight 007, the Soviet nuclear early-warning
    system reported that a missile had been launched from the United
    States. As Wikipedia describes it, "Petrov judged the reports to
    be a false alarm, and his decision to disobey orders, against
    Soviet military protocol, is credited with having prevented an
    erroneous retaliatory nuclear attack on the United States and its
    NATO allies that could have resulted in a large-scale nuclear war."

    So on Sunday, raise a glass to Stanislav Yevgrafovich Petrov.

    The notification Petrov got said there were five missiles. Even with
    that number, the lack of any additional ones made him suspicious. I have
    a song about him:

    http://www.mcgath.com/songs/StanislavPetrov.pdf

    For which, he got both a reprimanded from his superiors in the
    Kremlin, and a "Hero of the Soviet Union" medal (the highest me del
    awarded in the Soviet Union).
    --

    Qualified immuninity = vertual impunity.

    Tim Merrigan

    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
    https://www.avg.com

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  • From Gary McGath@21:1/5 to Tim Merrigan on Sun Sep 26 19:44:39 2021
    On 9/26/21 6:42 PM, Tim Merrigan wrote:

    For which, he got both a reprimanded from his superiors in the
    Kremlin, and a "Hero of the Soviet Union" medal (the highest me del
    awarded in the Soviet Union).


    Petrov got the Dresden Prize and the Future of Life Award, the latter posthumously, but I can't find any reference to his getting an award
    from the Soviet Union.

    --
    Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com

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  • From Dorothy J Heydt@21:1/5 to tppm@ca.rr.com on Sun Sep 26 23:25:33 2021
    In article <2it1lgltfijhfo4tv5rfuj8e8qnlhhrm3u@4ax.com>,
    Tim Merrigan <tppm@ca.rr.com> wrote:
    On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 10:57:23 -0400, Gary McGath ><garym@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com> wrote:

    On 9/26/21 8:16 AM, eleeper@optonline.net wrote:
    TOPIC: Stanislav Yevgrafovich Petrov (comments by Evelyn C. Leeper)

    On 26 September 1983, Stanislav Yevgrafovich Petrov probably
    averted nuclear war. Shortly after the Soviet military had shot
    down Korean Air Lines Flight 007, the Soviet nuclear early-warning
    system reported that a missile had been launched from the United
    States. As Wikipedia describes it, "Petrov judged the reports to
    be a false alarm, and his decision to disobey orders, against
    Soviet military protocol, is credited with having prevented an
    erroneous retaliatory nuclear attack on the United States and its
    NATO allies that could have resulted in a large-scale nuclear war."

    So on Sunday, raise a glass to Stanislav Yevgrafovich Petrov.

    The notification Petrov got said there were five missiles. Even with
    that number, the lack of any additional ones made him suspicious. I have
    a song about him:

    http://www.mcgath.com/songs/StanislavPetrov.pdf

    For which, he got both a reprimanded from his superiors in the
    Kremlin, and a "Hero of the Soviet Union" medal (the highest me del
    awarded in the Soviet Union).

    Hey, it beat what Napoleon said to one of his marshals: "For
    winning the battle, I'm giving you the Croix de Guerre. For
    disobeying orders, I'm going to have you shot."

    --
    Dorothy J. Heydt
    Vallejo, California
    djheydt at gmail dot com
    Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

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  • From Tim Merrigan@21:1/5 to garym@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com on Sun Sep 26 21:02:51 2021
    On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 19:44:39 -0400, Gary McGath
    <garym@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com> wrote:

    On 9/26/21 6:42 PM, Tim Merrigan wrote:

    For which, he got both a reprimanded from his superiors in the
    Kremlin, and a "Hero of the Soviet Union" medal (the highest me del
    awarded in the Soviet Union).


    Petrov got the Dresden Prize and the Future of Life Award, the latter >posthumously, but I can't find any reference to his getting an award
    from the Soviet Union.

    One of the episodes of "Mysteries at the Museum" covered his medal, I
    think it was at an American Museum, and explained why he got it, and
    why it was on display in an American museum.
    --

    Qualified immuninity = vertual impunity.

    Tim Merrigan

    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
    https://www.avg.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Gary McGath@21:1/5 to Dorothy J Heydt on Mon Sep 27 11:59:43 2021
    On 9/26/21 7:25 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

    Hey, it beat what Napoleon said to one of his marshals: "For
    winning the battle, I'm giving you the Croix de Guerre. For
    disobeying orders, I'm going to have you shot."


    There's a similar bit in Hugo's novel _Ninety-three_. A man carelessly
    lets a cannon get loose on the deck of a ship, where it rolls around
    wrecking stuff and killing people. (After reading that, I understood
    where "loose cannon" comes from.) He then restrains it at great personal
    risk. The Marquis de Lantenac gives him a high commendation and then has
    him executed.

    --
    Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com

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  • From Gary McGath@21:1/5 to Tim Merrigan on Mon Sep 27 11:53:31 2021
    On 9/27/21 12:02 AM, Tim Merrigan wrote:
    On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 19:44:39 -0400, Gary McGath <garym@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com> wrote:

    On 9/26/21 6:42 PM, Tim Merrigan wrote:

    For which, he got both a reprimanded from his superiors in the
    Kremlin, and a "Hero of the Soviet Union" medal (the highest me del
    awarded in the Soviet Union).


    Petrov got the Dresden Prize and the Future of Life Award, the latter
    posthumously, but I can't find any reference to his getting an award
    from the Soviet Union.

    One of the episodes of "Mysteries at the Museum" covered his medal, I
    think it was at an American Museum, and explained why he got it, and
    why it was on display in an American museum.


    I once watched a few episodes of "Mysteries at the Museum." As reliable
    sources of information go, it's somewhere between the National Enquirer
    and Q.

    --
    Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Peter Trei@21:1/5 to Gary McGath on Mon Sep 27 09:40:06 2021
    On Monday, September 27, 2021 at 11:59:46 AM UTC-4, Gary McGath wrote:
    On 9/26/21 7:25 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

    Hey, it beat what Napoleon said to one of his marshals: "For
    winning the battle, I'm giving you the Croix de Guerre. For
    disobeying orders, I'm going to have you shot."

    There's a similar bit in Hugo's novel _Ninety-three_. A man carelessly
    lets a cannon get loose on the deck of a ship, where it rolls around
    wrecking stuff and killing people. (After reading that, I understood
    where "loose cannon" comes from.) He then restrains it at great personal risk. The Marquis de Lantenac gives him a high commendation and then has
    him executed.

    I'm reminded of Titus Manlius Imperiosus Torquatus, a 4th Century BC Roman General, who executed his own adult son for disobeying military orders. https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titus_Manlius_Imperiosus_Torquatus

    Pt

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  • From Keith F. Lynch@21:1/5 to Dorothy J Heydt on Wed Sep 29 02:38:21 2021
    Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
    Tim Merrigan <tppm@ca.rr.com> wrote:
    For which, he got both a reprimanded from his superiors in the
    Kremlin, and a "Hero of the Soviet Union" medal (the highest me del
    awarded in the Soviet Union).

    Hey, it beat what Napoleon said to one of his marshals: "For
    winning the battle, I'm giving you the Croix de Guerre. For
    disobeying orders, I'm going to have you shot."

    Pretty much the same thing happened to me, albeit on a somewhat
    smaller scale. I had finished installing a new computer in a hospital
    at an Army base. I finished early, as usual. Earlier, I had written
    the software for it.

    The person in charge asked if, in the time before my return flight,
    I could get their card embosser to work with our system. That was
    a device to create what looked like embossed credit cards, with the
    patient's name and key details on it. I said I probably could if
    they had the manual. They did. I did. They were pleased. I got
    a commendation.

    But I also got a condemnation. It turned out that my employer had bid
    some large number of programmer-hours to develop that software, and I
    had gone and done it for free. It's the most upset any employer had
    ever been with me.

    A few days later, an identical embosser arrived at our office for us
    to develop the (already written) software on. I used it to print a few
    novelty cards. Some of you may have seen my "United Individualist"
    ID card. That's where it came from.
    --
    Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
    Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From garabik-news-2005-05@kassiopeia.jul@21:1/5 to Gary McGath on Wed Sep 29 08:09:59 2021
    Gary McGath <garym@removemcgathremove.com> wrote:
    On 9/27/21 12:02 AM, Tim Merrigan wrote:
    One of the episodes of "Mysteries at the Museum" covered his medal, I
    think it was at an American Museum, and explained why he got it, and
    why it was on display in an American museum.


    I once watched a few episodes of "Mysteries at the Museum." As reliable sources of information go, it's somewhere between the National Enquirer
    and Q.

    More importantly, the Russian language wikipedia (known for its
    thoroughness and reliability, yeah right) does not mention any USSR
    medals, and it has a section on his awards.

    --
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    | Radovan GarabĂ­k http://kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk/~garabik/ |
    | __..--^^^--..__ garabik @ kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk |
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus.
    Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!

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