• MT VOID, 09/17/21 -- Vol. 40, No. 12, Whole Number 2189

    From evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Sun Sep 19 06:55:51 2021
    THE MT VOID
    Mt. Holz Science Fiction Society
    09/17/21 -- Vol. 40, No. 12, Whole Number 2189

    Co-Editor: Mark Leeper, mleeper@optonline.net
    Co-Editor: Evelyn Leeper, eleeper@optonline.net
    Sending Address: evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com
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    Topics:
    Bond Songs (Part 4) (THE SPY WHO LOVED ME, MOONRAKER,
    FOR YOUR EYES ONLY) (comments by Mark R. Leeper)
    THE SAVIOR GENERALS by Victor Davis Hanson (book review
    by Gregory Frederick)
    THE FALL OF ROME (letters of comment by Fred Lerner,
    Paul Dormer, Keith F. Lynch, and Gary McGath)
    This Week's Reading (THE MARTIAN CHRONICLES)
    (book and television comments by Evelyn C. Leeper)

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: Bond Songs (Part 4) (THE SPY WHO LOVED ME, MOONRAKER, FOR
    YOUR EYES ONLY) (comments by Mark R. Leeper)

    I hardly know what to tell you about THE SPY WHO LOVED ME, the next
    song in Bond song order. It is apparently from the point of view
    of a spy at the end of his career and likely the end of his life.
    Once his lover has advertised that she in turn has a lover who is a
    spy, any hopes for discretion are dashed. In the "Diamonds" film
    she apparently knows who James Bond is and expects other people to
    know, the spy is dead. With no explanation she says over the
    phone, "You just killed JAMES BOND!" It is too easy to--with
    little effort--to put a bullet in Bond's head.

    Nobody does it better
    Makes me feel sad for the rest.
    Nobody does it half as good as you
    Baby, you're the best.

    {When she says nobody does it better or half as good, what
    kind of metric is she using? Who researched it? Was it fun?
    Maybe they held some kind of Sex Olympics?}

    I wasn't lookin' but somehow you found me
    I tried to hide from your love light

    {What is he? A firefly?}

    But like heaven above me
    The spy who loved me
    Is keepin' all my secrets safe tonight.

    {A word to the wise: they may not be all that safe. My
    suggestion would be not to invest so widely in a
    monoculture.}

    And nobody does it better
    Though sometimes I wish someone could
    Nobody does it quite the way you do

    Why'd you have to be so good?

    The way that you hold me
    Whenever you hold me
    There's some kind of magic inside you
    That keeps me from runnin'
    But just keep it comin'
    How'd you learn to do the things you do?

    {Learn? Are there courses in this stuff? Is that legal?}

    Oh, and nobody does it better
    Makes me feel sad for the rest
    Nobody does it half as good as you
    Baby, baby, darlin', you're the best

    {"baby,baby, darlin?"}

    Baby you're the best
    Darlin', you're the best
    Baby you're the best

    Oh, oh, oh...

    Oh.

    Next comes MOONRAKER, one of the worst Bond films in living memory.
    Bond gets himself shot into outer space and defends Britain with
    laser blasters. He is an astronaut and a spy at the same time. I
    wonder how many CIA agents have had missions that took them into
    space. I bet it hasn't been many.

    Where are you? Why do you hide?

    {I have a feeling we are going to find out.}

    Where is that moonlight trail that leads to your side?

    {Did he leave a trail of breadcrumbs?}

    Just like the moonraker goes in search of his dream of gold,

    {The only definition for "moonraker" in the dictionary is a
    small triangular sail that flies at the top of the tallest
    mast on a sailing ship.}

    I search for love, for someone to have and hold.

    {She doesn't want a lover. She wants a puppy. (I don't
    blame her actually.)}

    I've seen your smile in a thousand dreams,
    Felt your touch and it always seems
    You love me,
    You love me.

    {She is entirely lacking an imagination apparently.
    She has seen her lover so many times and still doesn't know
    what he looks like?}

    Where are you? When will we meet?
    Take my unfinished life and make it complete.
    Just like the Moonraker knows his dream will come true someday,
    I know that you are only a kiss away.

    I've seen your smile in a thousand dreams,
    Felt your touch and it always seems
    You love me,
    You love me.

    {It seems to me she has invested a lot of time in a very
    dodgy proposition.}

    And then comes FOR YOUR EYES ONLY.

    For your eyes only, can see me through the night

    {Has she tried a good flashlight?}

    For your eyes only, I never need to hide

    {It is saying she does not have to hide for her lover's
    eyes.}

    You can see so much in me, so much in me that's new
    I never felt until I looked at you

    {I guess they must be playing some kind of silly Hide and
    Seek game.}

    For your eyes only, only for you
    You'll see what no one else can see, and now I'm breaking free
    For your eyes only, only for you
    The love I know you need in me, the fantasy you've freed in me
    Only for you, only for you

    For your eyes only, the nights are never cold

    {If it gets a bit chilly just throw a couple of eyeballs on
    the fire.}

    You really know me, that's all I need to know
    Maybe I'm an open book because I know you're mine
    But you won't need to read between the lines

    For your eyes only, only for you
    You see what no one else can see, and now I'm breaking free
    For your eyes only, only for you
    The passions that collide in me, the wild abandoned side of me
    Only for you, for your eyes only

    [-mrl]

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: THE SAVIOR GENERALS: HOW FIVE GREAT COMMANDERS SAVED WARS
    THAT WERE LOST-FROM ANCIENT GREECE TO IRAQ by Victor Davis Hanson
    (book review by Gregory Frederick)

    This is my second book from Victor Hanson. The author selected
    five generals to discuss in detail for this history book. He chose
    as subjects three Americans and two ancient generals. Many
    American readers maybe familiar with David H. Petraeus and William
    T. Sherman and some may have heard of Matthew B. Ridgway.
    Themistocles of Athens and Belisarius of the Byzantine Empire are
    not names known by many today, but they make for excellent
    additions to this group of military leaders who saved the day for
    their state.

    Petraeus's move to push for a surge in US forces in Iraq in 2007
    helped to quell the increasing violence and allowed the US to
    greatly reduce their military presence in Iraq. Sherman's actions
    in capturing Atlanta helped to reshape the results of the Civil War
    and aided Lincoln in his re-election bid for a second term which he
    got. Ridgeway turned the impending defeat from the huge Communist
    Chinese army that entered the Korean War into a route of the
    Chinese and then forced a stalemate at the 38th parallel. The
    Chinese entered the Korean War due to General MacArthur's ill
    advised drive into the far northern areas of North Korea which was
    too close to the Chinese border. Themistocles from ancient Athens
    defeated the Persians in the naval battle at Salamis causing the
    eventual triumph of the Greeks over the Persians. Belisarius was
    Emperor Justinian's most successful general in expanding the empire
    in an effort to regain the lost territories of the fallen Western
    Roman Empire. The Byzantine Empire was actually the Eastern Roman
    Empire. Belisarius's army was typically undermanned and not
    supported enough financially but he still won many battles. Victor
    Hanson is a great author of military history and his books are
    filled with fascinating facts and details. [gf]

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: THE FALL OF ROME (letters of comment by Fred Lerner, Paul
    Dormer, Keith F. Lynch, and Gary McGath)

    In response to comments on R. A. Lafferty's THE FALL OF ROME in the
    09/10/21 issue of the MT VOID, Fred Lerner sent a PDF of his
    (Fred's) article in the 25 February 1972 issue of the Science
    Fiction Research Association Newsletter (Vol. 2, No. 2). The
    article, entitled "The Curious Case of THE FALL OF ROME", reports
    that Lafferty himself repeatedly claimed it was a novel (and
    includes a letter from Lafferty that says he is surprised that
    people don't recognize that it is a novel). However, Fred notes,"
    neither the galleys ... nor the published book itself lay claim to
    be other than straight fiction. So it has been reviewed, and so
    the librarians have classified it. My own reading of the volume
    leaves me no grounds for disagreement with this decision, except
    that I have a bias toward accepting an author's own classification
    of his work." Fred ultimately calls it a "quasi-novel". [-ecl/fl]

    Paul Dormer responds to the line between history and fiction with:

    Co-incidentally, I've just been reading a biography of the last
    Shogun of Japan. You could have a similar discussion about that.
    In the introduction, it is suggested it is a similar work to Shelby
    Foote's Civil War history. [-pd]

    Keith F. Lynch adds:

    I'm reminded of Alex Haley's best-selling _Roots_, and the
    miniseries based on it. At the time I'm pretty sure it was
    described and marketed at non-fiction, but today it's universally
    described as fiction. [-kfl]

    Gary McGath notes:

    Haley was sued for plagiarizing from a novel called THE AFRICAN. He
    admitted that "various materials from THE AFRICAN by Harold
    Courtlander found their way into his book ROOTS." The matter was
    settled for an undisclosed sum rumored to be in the 6-digit range.

    You need to watch those manuscripts of yours carefully, or things
    you didn't write might "find their way" in while you're sleeping.
    [-gmg]

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: This Week's Reading (book and television comments by Evelyn
    C. Leeper)

    In conjunction with the book RICHARD MATHESON ON THE SCREEN by
    Matthew R. Bradley, we have been watching all of Richard Matheson's
    film and television works, and I just finished the mini-series, THE
    MARTIAN CHRONICLES.

    This starts with "based on the novel" but THE MARTIAN CHRONICLES is
    not a novel. (Or maybe it is in the sense that we talk about a
    "fix-up novel"--after all, we talk about the "Foundation Trilogy"
    as three novels, but none of the books is a novel.)

    Presumably we would have scouted the area before choosing a landing
    spot, and seen the city.

    The second mission suggests the first mission built the town, but
    doesn't ask why there is grass, or trees, any other macro Earth
    life that wasn't noticed in survey missions.

    The second mission recognizes that the air is too thin, which sort
    of makes sense--you could be hypnotized to think you are seeing or
    hearing things, but you couldn't be hypnotized to survive in a
    vacuum (for example). But the thin air barely affects them--this
    is definitely "Old Mars" in the sense of having the environment
    science fiction gave it pre-1976: air a little thin, but breathable
    (maybe with some supplemental oxygen), temperature maybe a little
    chilly but nothing that people couldn't survive, and of course,
    Martians. This is clear from the very beginning of the movie: the
    view of Mars they show has clouds in the Martian sky.

    Based on the interiors shown in "The Settlers", weight did not seem
    to be a consideration for what they could bring from Earth--not
    just knick-knacks and decorative objects, but large pieces of
    furniture were apparently transported. This is doubly strange, as
    we never see a ship large enough to have carried enough for even
    one house, let alone an entire settlement.

    I know Bradbury wrote "The Fire Balloons" before it, but I was
    getting a whole "Canticle for Leibowitz" vibe from its version in
    "The Settlers". It's probably the monks in the desolate desert
    setting and everything.

    The phone book seems awfully thick for the level of colonization on
    Mars, even if it is for the entire planet.

    I realize asking about scientific realism in a Bradbury story is
    foolish, but in the last segment, what does the Rock Hudson think
    he and his family are going to eat? (He seems to be planning not
    to return when he tells his family to take only what they can't do
    without. Only after his kids and wife object does he agree to go
    back until they're ready.)

    Is burning the books at the end of the series supposed to be
    reminiscent of FAHRENHEIT 451? He says, "Burning what's behind us,
    burning a way of life." True, but is he burning civilization in
    exchange for primitivism?

    The mini-series was in three parts; the primary stories adapted
    were:

    "The Expeditions":
    - "Ylla"
    - "The Third Expedition"/"Mars Is Heaven"

    "The Settlers":
    - "The Locusts"
    - "The Fire Balloons"
    - "The Off Season"

    "The Martians":
    - "The Silent Towns"
    - "The Long Years"
    - "Night Meeting"
    - "The Million-Year Picnic"

    (However, some elements of other stories were also included.)

    [-ecl]

    ===================================================================

    Mark Leeper
    mleeper@optonline.net


    Some of my best leading men have been dogs and horses.
    --Elizabeth Taylor

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  • From Paul Dormer@21:1/5 to evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com on Sun Sep 19 15:44:00 2021
    In article <af3848cc-9cff-4541-a784-aeaa1d7d8925n@googlegroups.com>, evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com () wrote:

    Lafferty himself repeatedly claimed it was a novel (and
    includes a letter from Lafferty that says he is surprised that
    people don't recognize that it is a novel). However, Fred notes,"
    neither the galleys ... nor the published book itself lay claim to
    be other than straight fiction. So it has been reviewed, and so
    the librarians have classified it.

    Does that make sense? If it was a novel, it would be fiction, and not a
    novel, history.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com@21:1/5 to Paul Dormer on Sun Sep 19 08:24:57 2021
    Fred pointed out that I had mis-typed it as the complete reverse of what he said ("straight history"). A correction will run next week.

    On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 10:44:08 AM UTC-4, Paul Dormer wrote:
    In article <af3848cc-9cff-4541...@googlegroups.com>,
    evelynchim...@gmail.com () wrote:

    Lafferty himself repeatedly claimed it was a novel (and
    includes a letter from Lafferty that says he is surprised that
    people don't recognize that it is a novel). However, Fred notes,"
    neither the galleys ... nor the published book itself lay claim to
    be other than straight fiction. So it has been reviewed, and so
    the librarians have classified it.
    Does that make sense? If it was a novel, it would be fiction, and not a novel, history.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gary McGath@21:1/5 to eleeper@optonline.net on Sun Sep 19 12:09:00 2021
    On 9/19/21 9:55 AM, eleeper@optonline.net wrote:
    Next comes MOONRAKER, one of the worst Bond films in living memory.
    Bond gets himself shot into outer space and defends Britain with
    laser blasters. He is an astronaut and a spy at the same time. I
    wonder how many CIA agents have had missions that took them into
    space. I bet it hasn't been many.

    When the movie came out, there was a novelization of it. The movie was
    (however loosely) based on an Ian Fleming novel of the same title. Maybe
    they could make another movie of the novelization, and then novelize that?

    --
    Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com

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  • From Paul Dormer@21:1/5 to evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com on Sun Sep 19 16:45:00 2021
    In article <2bdfb781-50ab-404a-a40d-85c12ed6bc7an@googlegroups.com>, evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com () wrote:


    Fred pointed out that I had mis-typed it as the complete reverse of
    what he said ("straight history"). A correction will run next week.

    Oops. :-)

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  • From Dorothy J Heydt@21:1/5 to garym@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com on Sun Sep 19 16:32:43 2021
    In article <si7nau$oqo$1@dont-email.me>,
    Gary McGath <garym@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com> wrote:
    On 9/19/21 9:55 AM, eleeper@optonline.net wrote:
    Next comes MOONRAKER, one of the worst Bond films in living memory.
    Bond gets himself shot into outer space and defends Britain with
    laser blasters. He is an astronaut and a spy at the same time. I
    wonder how many CIA agents have had missions that took them into
    space. I bet it hasn't been many.

    When the movie came out, there was a novelization of it. The movie was >(however loosely) based on an Ian Fleming novel of the same title. Maybe
    they could make another movie of the novelization, and then novelize that?

    Speaking of _Forbidden Planet_, which we were doing a week or so
    ago, that film got a novelization after the fact. (It stank. I
    think I've still got a copy, Cat knows why.)

    --
    Dorothy J. Heydt
    Vallejo, California
    djheydt at gmail dot com
    Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

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  • From Scott Dorsey@21:1/5 to garym@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com on Sun Sep 19 20:00:29 2021
    Gary McGath <garym@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com> wrote:
    On 9/19/21 9:55 AM, eleeper@optonline.net wrote:
    Next comes MOONRAKER, one of the worst Bond films in living memory.
    Bond gets himself shot into outer space and defends Britain with
    laser blasters. He is an astronaut and a spy at the same time. I
    wonder how many CIA agents have had missions that took them into
    space. I bet it hasn't been many.

    When the movie came out, there was a novelization of it. The movie was >(however loosely) based on an Ian Fleming novel of the same title. Maybe
    they could make another movie of the novelization, and then novelize that?

    Didn't Disney do that with the Jungle Book?
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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  • From Tim Merrigan@21:1/5 to garym@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com on Sun Sep 19 14:13:45 2021
    On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 12:09:00 -0400, Gary McGath
    <garym@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com> wrote:

    On 9/19/21 9:55 AM, eleeper@optonline.net wrote:
    Next comes MOONRAKER, one of the worst Bond films in living memory.
    Bond gets himself shot into outer space and defends Britain with
    laser blasters. He is an astronaut and a spy at the same time. I
    wonder how many CIA agents have had missions that took them into
    space. I bet it hasn't been many.

    When the movie came out, there was a novelization of it. The movie was >(however loosely) based on an Ian Fleming novel of the same title. Maybe
    they could make another movie of the novelization, and then novelize that?

    I've read the original novel*, and the only similarities to the movie,
    or, presumably, the mobilization, which I haven't read, was the title,
    and that James Bond was in it.

    In the book, Moonraker is a V-2, or equivalent, being set up somewhere
    (I forget, it's been a while) in the west of England, targeted at
    London. (It really should have been an MI-5, rather than MI-6,
    problem.)

    *One of the two James Bond books I've read, the other was Casino
    Royale.
    --

    Qualified immuninity = vertual impunity.

    Tim Merrigan

    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
    https://www.avg.com

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  • From Keith F. Lynch@21:1/5 to Scott Dorsey on Sun Sep 19 21:26:33 2021
    Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
    Gary McGath <garym@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com> wrote:
    When the movie came out, there was a novelization of it. The movie
    was (however loosely) based on an Ian Fleming novel of the same
    title. Maybe they could make another movie of the novelization,
    and then novelize that?

    Didn't Disney do that with the Jungle Book?

    They, or someone, certainly did with the 1967 version. I don't know
    about the remakes. I don't remember the author, not having read the
    book or seen the movie in 54 years, but I know it wasn't Kipling.
    --
    Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
    Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

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  • From Tim Merrigan@21:1/5 to All on Sun Sep 19 14:17:10 2021
    On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 14:13:45 -0700, Tim Merrigan <tppm@ca.rr.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 12:09:00 -0400, Gary McGath ><garym@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com> wrote:

    On 9/19/21 9:55 AM, eleeper@optonline.net wrote:
    Next comes MOONRAKER, one of the worst Bond films in living memory.
    Bond gets himself shot into outer space and defends Britain with
    laser blasters. He is an astronaut and a spy at the same time. I
    wonder how many CIA agents have had missions that took them into
    space. I bet it hasn't been many.

    When the movie came out, there was a novelization of it. The movie was >>(however loosely) based on an Ian Fleming novel of the same title. Maybe >>they could make another movie of the novelization, and then novelize that?

    I've read the original novel*, and the only similarities to the movie,
    or, presumably, the mobilization, which I haven't read, was the title,
    and that James Bond was in it.
    Damned spelling checker: novelization


    In the book, Moonraker is a V-2, or equivalent, being set up somewhere
    (I forget, it's been a while) in the west of England, targeted at
    London. (It really should have been an MI-5, rather than MI-6,
    problem.)

    *One of the two James Bond books I've read, the other was Casino
    Royale.
    --

    Qualified immuninity = vertual impunity.

    Tim Merrigan
    --

    Qualified immuninity = vertual impunity.

    Tim Merrigan

    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
    https://www.avg.com

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  • From Dorothy J Heydt@21:1/5 to Scott Dorsey on Sun Sep 19 22:44:20 2021
    In article <si84st$hf2$1@panix2.panix.com>,
    Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
    Gary McGath <garym@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com> wrote:
    On 9/19/21 9:55 AM, eleeper@optonline.net wrote:
    Next comes MOONRAKER, one of the worst Bond films in living memory.
    Bond gets himself shot into outer space and defends Britain with
    laser blasters. He is an astronaut and a spy at the same time. I
    wonder how many CIA agents have had missions that took them into
    space. I bet it hasn't been many.

    When the movie came out, there was a novelization of it. The movie was >>(however loosely) based on an Ian Fleming novel of the same title. Maybe >>they could make another movie of the novelization, and then novelize that?

    Didn't Disney do that with the Jungle Book?

    Holy Cat.

    They may have done, but there were a couple of actual books
    first.

    --
    Dorothy J. Heydt
    Vallejo, California
    djheydt at gmail dot com
    Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

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  • From Gary McGath@21:1/5 to Keith F. Lynch on Sun Sep 19 18:36:37 2021
    On 9/19/21 5:26 PM, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
    Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
    Gary McGath <garym@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com> wrote:
    When the movie came out, there was a novelization of it. The movie
    was (however loosely) based on an Ian Fleming novel of the same
    title. Maybe they could make another movie of the novelization,
    and then novelize that?

    Didn't Disney do that with the Jungle Book?

    They, or someone, certainly did with the 1967 version. I don't know
    about the remakes. I don't remember the author, not having read the
    book or seen the movie in 54 years, but I know it wasn't Kipling.


    A search turns up a "novelization" of the 1994 version which is actually
    a 10-page children's book. It credits Kipling as a co-author, which I
    think compounds the crime.

    --
    Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com

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  • From Kerr-Mudd, John@21:1/5 to eleeper@optonline.net on Mon Sep 20 10:24:41 2021
    On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 06:55:51 -0700 (PDT)
    "eleeper@optonline.net" <evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com> wrote:

    []

    TOPIC: Bond Songs (Part 4) (THE SPY WHO LOVED ME, MOONRAKER, FOR
    YOUR EYES ONLY) (comments by Mark R. Leeper)

    []

    Just like the moonraker goes in search of his dream of gold,

    {The only definition for "moonraker" in the dictionary is a
    small triangular sail that flies at the top of the tallest
    mast on a sailing ship.}


    A Moonraker was a West Country smuggler (or bunch of them) who were recovering some smuggled goods that they'd stashed in a pond. When spotted doing so by the Revenue/local cops they claimed to be Moonraking - trying to catch the image of the moon
    reflected on the pond, so were left alone as a bunch of stupid yokels.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonrakers

    says it better than my attempt.
    []

    --
    Bah, and indeed Humbug.

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