There's a video of the SMOFCon presentation for the Chengdu Worldcon on YouTube. People are seriously talking about whether it will even happen.Yes, everything that goes on in China of any note has the party's slimy
I've posted a commentary on my blog, with a link to the video:
https://garymcgath.com/wp/dark-clouds-chengdu-worldcon/
The involvement of "governmental entities" shouldn't surprise anyone.
There's a video of the SMOFCon presentation for the Chengdu Worldcon on >YouTube. People are seriously talking about whether it will even happen.
I've posted a commentary on my blog, with a link to the video:
https://garymcgath.com/wp/dark-clouds-chengdu-worldcon/
The involvement of "governmental entities" shouldn't surprise anyone.
In article <touf1q$1o6h9$1@dont-email.me>,
Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:
There's a video of the SMOFCon presentation for the Chengdu
Worldcon on YouTube. People are seriously talking about whether
it will even happen. I've posted a commentary on my blog, with a
link to the video:
https://garymcgath.com/wp/dark-clouds-chengdu-worldcon/
The involvement of "governmental entities" shouldn't surprise
anyone.
I wonder about the feasibility of rules to, in the future,
disqualify genocidal totalitarian slave states from eligibility
to host a Worldcon.
In article <touf1q$1o6h9$1@dont-email.me>,
Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:
There's a video of the SMOFCon presentation for the Chengdu Worldcon on
YouTube. People are seriously talking about whether it will even happen.
I've posted a commentary on my blog, with a link to the video:
https://garymcgath.com/wp/dark-clouds-chengdu-worldcon/
The involvement of "governmental entities" shouldn't surprise anyone.
I wonder about the feasibility of rules to, in the future, disqualify genocidal totalitarian slave states from eligibility to host a Worldcon.
If the CCP decides to buy Worldcon, they can buy enough "memberships"
to vote all future Worldcons in China.
I wonder about the feasibility of rules to, in the future,
disqualify genocidal totalitarian slave states from eligibility
to host a Worldcon.
If the CCP decides to buy Worldcon, they can buy enough
"memberships" to vote all future Worldcons in China.
But, of course, on the other hand, there seems to be a significant
subset of fandom that thinks it's just peachy keen fine to commit
whatever atrocities you want, open-ended, as long as you attach a
"Peoples Republic" or "Progressive" sticker to your einsatzgruppen
hobnail boots.
Mike Van Pelt <usenet@mikevanpelt.com> wrote in >news:tp23rn$27aso$1@dont-email.me:
I wonder about the feasibility of rules to, in the future,Given who would be definining what constitutes a "genocidal
disqualify genocidal totalitarian slave states from eligibility
to host a Worldcon.
totalitarian slave state," that would almost certainly disqualify the
United States. (Actual facts don't matter here, only political
ideology. And if that isn't obvious to you, then you're part of the
problem.)
If the CCP decides to buy Worldcon, they can buy enough
"memberships" to vote all future Worldcons in China.
All they'd have bought is a few trademarks. The real Worldcon
community would start over under another name.
Mike Van Pelt <usenet@mikevanpelt.com> wrote:Sigh. No, it wasn't. Not in the slightest. But you're an USAian, and understand the proverbial three-fifths of five-eighths of fuck-all about politics.
But, of course, on the other hand, there seems to be a significant
subset of fandom that thinks it's just peachy keen fine to commit
whatever atrocities you want, open-ended, as long as you attach a
"Peoples Republic" or "Progressive" sticker to your einsatzgruppen
hobnail boots.
But remind them that National Socialism is socialism,
a meltdown. As if they thought you were defending Nazis rather than criticising socialism in all its many toxic flavors.
Mao did kill far more people than Hitler and Stalin combined. And
China never repudiated Mao.
If the CCP decides to buy Worldcon, they can buy enough
"memberships" to vote all future Worldcons in China.
All they'd have bought is a few trademarks. The real Worldcon
community would start over under another name.
On 04/01/2023 15:13, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
Mike Van Pelt <usenet@mikevanpelt.com> wrote:Sigh. No, it wasn't. Not in the slightest. But you're an USAian, and understand the proverbial three-fifths of five-eighths of fuck-all about politics.
But, of course, on the other hand, there seems to be a significant
subset of fandom that thinks it's just peachy keen fine to commit
whatever atrocities you want, open-ended, as long as you attach a
"Peoples Republic" or "Progressive" sticker to your einsatzgruppen
hobnail boots.
But remind them that National Socialism is socialism,
On 1/4/23 6:18 AM, Gary R. Schmidt wrote:
On 04/01/2023 15:13, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
Mike Van Pelt <usenet@mikevanpelt.com> wrote:Sigh. No, it wasn't. Not in the slightest. But you're an USAian, and >> understand the proverbial three-fifths of five-eighths of fuck-all about
But, of course, on the other hand, there seems to be a significant
subset of fandom that thinks it's just peachy keen fine to commit
whatever atrocities you want, open-ended, as long as you attach a
"Peoples Republic" or "Progressive" sticker to your einsatzgruppen
hobnail boots.
But remind them that National Socialism is socialism,
politics.
I'll skip over the bigotry expressed in that last sentence.
The question is messy. The NSDAP called itself socialist in its name.
The Fascists of Italy said they weren't socialist.
On 1/4/23 6:18 AM, Gary R. Schmidt wrote:
On 04/01/2023 15:13, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
Mike Van Pelt <usenet@mikevanpelt.com> wrote:Sigh. No, it wasn't. Not in the slightest. But you're an
But, of course, on the other hand, there seems to be a
significant subset of fandom that thinks it's just peachy
keen fine to commit whatever atrocities you want, open-ended,
as long as you attach a "Peoples Republic" or "Progressive"
sticker to your einsatzgruppen hobnail boots.
But remind them that National Socialism is socialism,
USAian, and understand the proverbial three-fifths of
five-eighths of fuck-all about politics.
I'll skip over the bigotry expressed in that last sentence.
The question is messy. The NSDAP called itself socialist in its
name. The Fascists of Italy said they weren't socialist. The
reason for the difference was strategic, not ideological. Most
people these days can't tell Fascism from Nazism, and discussing
the question sensibly is hard.
If socialism requires direct governmental (or "people's") title
to the bulk of the means of production, then Nazism and Fascism
weren't socialist. They were, however, close relatives of
socialism. All these variants grew out of the "uniting the
people" philosophies of the 19th century. The common factor was
the subordination of the individual to the group.
For socialists, this meant expropriation and nationalization.
For fascists (in the broad sense, including Nazis), it meant
keeping the existing economic structure but subordinating it to
central authority. The difference in practice wasn't great,
aside from which people reaped the benefits.
You can put fascism on either side of the borderline and say
it's socialist or not-quite-socialist. But saying it's "not in
the slightest" socialist is plain nonsense.
But I'm a "USAian", so Schmidt will probably "refute" me with an
ad hominem argument.
On 1/4/23 11:00 AM, Andy Leighton wrote:
We all know why the NSDAP called itself what it did - and it
wasn't some huge desire for socialism - if was to keep people
away from the Communist Party and the Volkisch movements.
Which is to say, it was competing with those movements for the
support of the same people, because their ideas weren't too far
apart.
On 04/01/2023 15:13, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
Mike Van Pelt <usenet@mikevanpelt.com> wrote:Sigh. No, it wasn't. Not in the slightest. But you're an
But, of course, on the other hand, there seems to be a
significant subset of fandom that thinks it's just peachy keen
fine to commit whatever atrocities you want, open-ended, as
long as you attach a "Peoples Republic" or "Progressive"
sticker to your einsatzgruppen hobnail boots.
But remind them that National Socialism is socialism,
USAian, and understand the proverbial three-fifths of
five-eighths of fuck-all about politics.
We all know why the NSDAP called itself what it did - and it wasn't
some huge desire for socialism - if was to keep people away from the Communist Party and the Volkisch movements.
Keith F. Lynch wrote:
But remind them that National Socialism is socialism, and they have
a meltdown.
Sigh. No, it wasn't. Not in the slightest. But you're an USAian,
and understand the proverbial three-fifths of five-eighths of
fuck-all about politics.
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
"Gary R. Schmidt" <grschmidt@acm.org> wrote in >>news:lt3g8j-k4i.ln1@paranoia.mcleod-schmidt.id.au:
On 04/01/2023 15:13, Keith F. Lynch wrote:That has nothing to do with being from the US, and everything do
Mike Van Pelt <usenet@mikevanpelt.com> wrote:Sigh. No, it wasn't. Not in the slightest. But you're an
But, of course, on the other hand, there seems to be a
significant subset of fandom that thinks it's just peachy
keen fine to commit whatever atrocities you want,
open-ended, as long as you attach a "Peoples Republic" or
"Progressive" sticker to your einsatzgruppen hobnail boots.
But remind them that National Socialism is socialism,
USAian, and understand the proverbial three-fifths of
five-eighths of fuck-all about politics.
to with Keith being a moron.
It's true that Keith's blindness with regard to such things is
pretty famous around here.
But it's also true that civics classes have pretty much
disappeared in the US and a huge number of Americans seem to be
pretty ignorant about how their own government works, let alone
how other governments work. I attribute much of the political
chaos in the past decade primarily to this. It is especially
disturbing when you think that democracy is a DIY government
that relies on the people to govern.
--scott
"Gary R. Schmidt" <grschmidt@acm.org> wrote in >news:lt3g8j-k4i.ln1@paranoia.mcleod-schmidt.id.au:
On 04/01/2023 15:13, Keith F. Lynch wrote:That has nothing to do with being from the US, and everything do to
Mike Van Pelt <usenet@mikevanpelt.com> wrote:Sigh. No, it wasn't. Not in the slightest. But you're an
But, of course, on the other hand, there seems to be a
significant subset of fandom that thinks it's just peachy keen
fine to commit whatever atrocities you want, open-ended, as
long as you attach a "Peoples Republic" or "Progressive"
sticker to your einsatzgruppen hobnail boots.
But remind them that National Socialism is socialism,
USAian, and understand the proverbial three-fifths of
five-eighths of fuck-all about politics.
with Keith being a moron.
Heh. Your bigotry is showing.
But it's also true that civics classes have pretty much
disappeared in the US and a huge number of Americans seem to be
pretty ignorant about how their own government works, let alone
how other governments work. I attribute much of the political
chaos in the past decade primarily to this. It is especially
disturbing when you think that democracy is a DIY government
that relies on the people to govern.
There's a video of the SMOFCon presentation for the Chengdu Worldcon on >YouTube. People are seriously talking about whether it will even happen.
I've posted a commentary on my blog, with a link to the video:
https://garymcgath.com/wp/dark-clouds-chengdu-worldcon/
The involvement of "governmental entities" shouldn't surprise anyone.
--
Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com
kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in
news:tp4rr5$90d$1@panix2.panix.com:
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
"Gary R. Schmidt" <grschmidt@acm.org> wrote in >>>news:lt3g8j-k4i.ln1@paranoia.mcleod-schmidt.id.au:
On 04/01/2023 15:13, Keith F. Lynch wrote:That has nothing to do with being from the US, and everything do
Mike Van Pelt <usenet@mikevanpelt.com> wrote:Sigh. No, it wasn't. Not in the slightest. But you're an
But, of course, on the other hand, there seems to be a
significant subset of fandom that thinks it's just peachy
keen fine to commit whatever atrocities you want,
open-ended, as long as you attach a "Peoples Republic" or
"Progressive" sticker to your einsatzgruppen hobnail boots.
But remind them that National Socialism is socialism,
USAian, and understand the proverbial three-fifths of
five-eighths of fuck-all about politics.
to with Keith being a moron.
It's true that Keith's blindness with regard to such things is
pretty famous around here.
To such things? How about to *every*thing? Is there a subject he
*isn't* full of shit on?
Heh. Your bigotry is showing.
But it's also true that civics classes have pretty much
disappeared in the US and a huge number of Americans seem to be
pretty ignorant about how their own government works, let alone
how other governments work. I attribute much of the political
chaos in the past decade primarily to this. It is especially
disturbing when you think that democracy is a DIY government
that relies on the people to govern.
--scott
Gary R. Schmidt <grschmidt@acm.org> wrote:
Keith F. Lynch wrote:
But remind them that National Socialism is socialism, and they have
a meltdown.
Sigh. No, it wasn't. Not in the slightest. But you're an USAian,
and understand the proverbial three-fifths of five-eighths of
fuck-all about politics.
Thanks for giving us a prompt example of just such a meltdown.
I agree with everything the other Gary (McGath) said, and add that
Europe's two great examples of socialism, Russia and Germany, began
the war in 1939 as allies to together subjugate the nations that were
between them. Without Russia's backing, I doubt Germany would have
been willing to risk war. So I'm not terribly sympathetic to the true
claim that Russia suffered the most in that war. That's what happens
to someone who fights on both sides.
Instead of denouncing Americans, you should be grateful that the US
fought against Germany. The US was under no threat except from Japan,
and could have ignored the war in Europe and the Atlantic. Maybe next
time it will.
Europe's greatest examples of Socialism are most of western Europe
for the later half of the twentieth century.
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in
Heh. Your bigotry is showing.
But it's also true that civics classes have pretty much
disappeared in the US and a huge number of Americans seem to be
pretty ignorant about how their own government works, let alone
how other governments work. I attribute much of the political
chaos in the past decade primarily to this. It is especially
disturbing when you think that democracy is a DIY government
that relies on the people to govern.
Maybe. But the thing about ignorance is that it's not inherent.
Everyone starts out ignorant, and ignorance is curable.
On Wed, 04 Jan 2023 14:02:31 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in >>news:tp4rr5$90d$1@panix2.panix.com:
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com>
wrote:
"Gary R. Schmidt" <grschmidt@acm.org> wrote in >>>>news:lt3g8j-k4i.ln1@paranoia.mcleod-schmidt.id.au:
On 04/01/2023 15:13, Keith F. Lynch wrote:That has nothing to do with being from the US, and everything
Mike Van Pelt <usenet@mikevanpelt.com> wrote:Sigh. No, it wasn't. Not in the slightest. But you're an
But, of course, on the other hand, there seems to be a
significant subset of fandom that thinks it's just peachy
keen fine to commit whatever atrocities you want,
open-ended, as long as you attach a "Peoples Republic" or
"Progressive" sticker to your einsatzgruppen hobnail
boots.
But remind them that National Socialism is socialism,
USAian, and understand the proverbial three-fifths of
five-eighths of fuck-all about politics.
do to with Keith being a moron.
It's true that Keith's blindness with regard to such things is
pretty famous around here.
To such things? How about to *every*thing? Is there a subject he
*isn't* full of shit on?
Heh. Your bigotry is showing.
But it's also true that civics classes have pretty much
disappeared in the US and a huge number of Americans seem to
be pretty ignorant about how their own government works, let
alone how other governments work. I attribute much of the
political chaos in the past decade primarily to this. It is
especially disturbing when you think that democracy is a DIY
government that relies on the people to govern.
--scott
His bigotry in favor of truth?
Tim Merrigan <tppm@ca.rr.com> wrote:
Europe's greatest examples of Socialism are most of western Europe
for the later half of the twentieth century.
Where in western Europe? Which present-day European nations don't
have stock markets?
BTW has the Hong Kong stock exchange shut down yet? Or are you saying
China is (other than de facto) Capitalist?
Because everyone is working for the government, everyone pretty much has
some degree of rank, and that might be a formal rank of an informal rank. >That rank and your connections basically allow you to get stuff done. >Everything works by having rank and pull. If you are a foreigner you have
no rank and no pull.
On Thu, 5 Jan 2023 02:53:24 -0000 (UTC), "Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
Tim Merrigan <tp...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
Europe's greatest examples of Socialism are most of western Europe
for the later half of the twentieth century.
Where in western Europe? Which present-day European nations don'tThat's not an indication of Socialism.
have stock markets?
Socialism is treating Healthcare, shelter, food, and childcare (among
other things) as rights, rather than privileges.
All of which can be done along side Capitalism,
which is what having a stock market might
be an indication of.
BTW has the Hong Kong stock exchange shut down yet? Or are you saying
China is (other than de facto) Capitalist?
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