https://karldufresne.blogspot.com/2024/01/the-striking-outpouring-of-empathy-for.html
Good sense, and fair.
One excellent comment among others was this one -
LNF said...
Media have said she needs sympathy. 2 brief questions
If the job is so stressful and causing her these mental issues why didn't she >stand down in October
Would the media have been so concerned and sympathetic if say Judith Collins >had been the person in the spotlight
January 17, 2024 at 2:36�PM
https://karldufresne.blogspot.com/2024/01/the-striking-outpouring-of-empathy-for.html
Good sense, and fair.
One excellent comment among others was this one -
LNF said...
Media have said she needs sympathy. 2 brief questions
If the job is so stressful and causing her these mental issues why didn't she stand down in October
Would the media have been so concerned and sympathetic if say Judith Collins had been the person in the spotlight
January 17, 2024 at 2:36 PM
https://karldufresne.blogspot.com/2024/01/the-striking-outpouring-of-empathy-for.html
Good sense, and fair.
One excellent comment among others was this one -
LNF said...
Media have said she needs sympathy. 2 brief questions
If the job is so stressful and causing her these mental issues why didn't she >stand down in October
Would the media have been so concerned and sympathetic if say Judith Collins >had been the person in the spotlight
January 17, 2024 at 2:36�PM
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 02:38:54 -0000 (UTC), TonyShe is a thief - end of story! Got it? Have you? She is a thief, you can pardon her all you like but that is bullshit and we all know it.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
https://karldufresne.blogspot.com/2024/01/the-striking-outpouring-of-empathy-for.html
Good sense, and fair.
One excellent comment among others was this one -
LNF said...
Media have said she needs sympathy. 2 brief questions
If the job is so stressful and causing her these mental issues why didn't she >>stand down in October
Would the media have been so concerned and sympathetic if say Judith Collins >>had been the person in the spotlight
January 17, 2024 at 2:36�PM
There was indeed a lot of sympathy for Judith Collins when she
arranged to be photographed praying in a church - it was rightly seen
as the end of an era for both her and her political party.
A better example may be the sympathy for Todd Muller; there was a lot
of sympathy and a willingness to let him depart quietly and give him
time to recover.
Those were both in a different time however; neither had been subject
to the vicious attacks that younger female politicians on the left
have had to suffer . . .
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 02:38:54 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
https://karldufresne.blogspot.com/2024/01/the-striking-outpouring-of-empathy-for.html
Good sense, and fair.
One excellent comment among others was this one -
LNF said...
Media have said she needs sympathy. 2 brief questions
If the job is so stressful and causing her these mental issues why didn't she >>stand down in October
Would the media have been so concerned and sympathetic if say Judith Collins >>had been the person in the spotlight
January 17, 2024 at 2:36�PM
There was indeed a lot of sympathy for Judith Collins when she
arranged to be photographed praying in a church - it was rightly seen
as the end of an era for both her and her political party.
A better example may be the sympathy for Todd Muller; there was a lot
of sympathy and a willingness to let him depart quietly and give him
time to recover.
Those were both in a different time however; neither had been subject
to the vicious attacks that younger female politicians on the left
have had to suffer . . .
On Friday 19 January 2024 at 09:32:56 UTC+13, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
This is why, democracies have to be secular -- they must look after the
welfare of all their citizens equally, regardless of ethnicity,
religion, sexuality etc. Church/temple/mosque/whatever has no place in
Government.
Indeed - and for this reason a lot of Māori nonsense needs to be removed
- specifically animist mythology that is getting in the way of people
living their lives.
There was indeed a lot of sympathy for Judith Collins when she
arranged to be photographed praying in a church - it was rightly seen
as the end of an era for both her and her political party.
On Friday 19 January 2024 at 09:32:56 UTC+13, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 21:40:40 +1300, Rich80105 wrote:
There was indeed a lot of sympathy for Judith Collins when sheThis is why, democracies have to be secular -- they must look after the
arranged to be photographed praying in a church - it was rightly seen
as the end of an era for both her and her political party.
welfare of all their citizens equally, regardless of ethnicity, religion,
sexuality etc. Church/temple/mosque/whatever has no place in Government.
Indeed - and for this reason a lot of M?ori nonsense needs to be removed - specifically animist mythology that is getting in the way of people living their lives.
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 12:42:54 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>No he doesn't you twit, keep on topic.
wrote:
On Friday 19 January 2024 at 09:32:56 UTC+13, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 21:40:40 +1300, Rich80105 wrote:
There was indeed a lot of sympathy for Judith Collins when sheThis is why, democracies have to be secular -- they must look after the
arranged to be photographed praying in a church - it was rightly seen
as the end of an era for both her and her political party.
welfare of all their citizens equally, regardless of ethnicity, religion, >>> sexuality etc. Church/temple/mosque/whatever has no place in Government.
Indeed - and for this reason a lot of M?ori nonsense needs to be removed - >>specifically animist mythology that is getting in the way of people living >>their lives.
So you want to ban religious belief?
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 12:41:34 -0800 (PST), JohnO wrote:[snip]
Lefties really are the scum of humanity.
Without lefties, you would have no free healthcare.
On Fri, 19 Jan 2024 11:58:43 +1300, Crash wrote:Taxes are in place in all countries in one form or another, they are not politically based or justified.
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 21:04:53 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 12:41:34 -0800 (PST), JohnO wrote:[snip]
Lefties really are the scum of humanity.
Without lefties, you would have no free healthcare.
We do not have free healthcare - it all has to be paid for.
Paid for the lefty way--through taxes.
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 21:04:53 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 12:41:34 -0800 (PST), JohnO wrote:[snip]
Lefties really are the scum of humanity.
Without lefties, you would have no free healthcare.
We do not have free healthcare - it all has to be paid for.
On Fri, 19 Jan 2024 11:58:43 +1300, Crash wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 21:04:53 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 12:41:34 -0800 (PST), JohnO wrote:[snip]
Lefties really are the scum of humanity.
Without lefties, you would have no free healthcare.
We do not have free healthcare - it all has to be paid for.
Paid for the lefty way--through taxes.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jan 2024 11:58:43 +1300, Crash wrote:Taxes are in place in all countries in one form or another, they are not politically based or justified.
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 21:04:53 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 12:41:34 -0800 (PST), JohnO wrote:
Lefties really are the scum of humanity.
Without lefties, you would have no free healthcare.
And I suspect you are of the age when you need it.
We do not have free healthcare - it all has to be paid for.
Paid for the lefty way--through taxes.
Care to identify any governments since 1930 that has not funded
healthcare with taxes?
On Fri, 19 Jan 2024 00:01:42 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:That was not my point. I was pointing out that taxes are exacted everywhere and therefore are not poltically motivated. I suspect never were. Therefore taxes are not a left wing initiative.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jan 2024 11:58:43 +1300, Crash wrote:Taxes are in place in all countries in one form or another, they are not
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 21:04:53 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 12:41:34 -0800 (PST), JohnO wrote:
Lefties really are the scum of humanity.
Without lefties, you would have no free healthcare.
And I suspect you are of the age when you need it.
We do not have free healthcare - it all has to be paid for.
Paid for the lefty way--through taxes.
politically based or justified.
Countries which try to rely on non-free healthcare tend to find it ...
very expensive.
On Fri, 19 Jan 2024 14:38:02 +1300, Crash wrote:
Care to identify any governments since 1930 that has not funded
healthcare with taxes?
The USA certainly seems to be trying. At great cost to its citizens.
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 12:41:34 -0800 (PST), JohnO wrote:
Lefties really are the scum of humanity.
Without lefties, you would have no free healthcare.
On Fri, 19 Jan 2024, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jan 2024 14:38:02 +1300, Crash wrote:
Care to identify any governments since 1930 that has not funded
healthcare with taxes?
The USA certainly seems to be trying. At great cost to its citizens.
Obamacare has been defined, by the USA Supreme Court, as a tax.
Without that definition, it would have been ruled unconstitutional.
Didn't you know that?
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
Countries which try to rely on non-free healthcare tend to find it ...
very expensive.
That was not my point. I was pointing out that taxes are exacted
everywhere and therefore are not poltically motivated.
On Fri, 19 Jan 2024, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jan 2024 14:38:02 +1300, Crash wrote:
Care to identify any governments since 1930 that has not funded
healthcare with taxes?
The USA certainly seems to be trying. At great cost to its citizens.
Obamacare has been defined, by the USA Supreme Court, as a tax.
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 21:04:53 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 12:41:34 -0800 (PST), JohnO wrote:
Lefties really are the scum of humanity.
Without lefties, you would have no free healthcare.
"Free" is just another word for "somebody else is paying".
On Fri, 19 Jan 2024 05:31:59 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:That is an interesting statement - and it is absolutely wrong - I am not a lefty (god forbid) and I want all people to have excellent health care for the lowest possible cost (ideally completely free)- and I know of many who feel the same - probably thousands - and if I know of thousands then how many are there?. Your claim is wrong.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
Countries which try to rely on non-free healthcare tend to find it ... >>>very expensive.
That was not my point. I was pointing out that taxes are exacted
everywhere and therefore are not poltically motivated.
But only lefties want to use them to give people free healthcare.
On Sat, 20 Jan 2024 05:48:35 +1300, BR wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 21:04:53 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 12:41:34 -0800 (PST), JohnO wrote:
Lefties really are the scum of humanity.
Without lefties, you would have no free healthcare.
"Free" is just another word for "somebody else is paying".
We all are paying. About half what it costs per head to fund a US-style >health-insurance system. So we all are paying ... and saving.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Sat, 20 Jan 2024 05:48:35 +1300, BR wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 21:04:53 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 12:41:34 -0800 (PST), JohnO wrote:
Lefties really are the scum of humanity.
Without lefties, you would have no free healthcare.
"Free" is just another word for "somebody else is paying".
We all are paying. About half what it costs per head to fund a US-style >>health-insurance system. So we all are paying ... and saving.
In NZ these days if you want good health care for the likes of
specialist and hospital treatments you need health insurance here as
well.. Without it and if you're non Maori you go to the bottom of
the waiting list.
With Covid still needed around 300 hospital beds around the country,
and up to ten ICU places, our hospitals are still under abnormal
pressure
On Sat, 20 Jan 2024, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
With Covid still needed around 300 hospital beds around the country,
and up to ten ICU places, our hospitals are still under abnormal
pressure
This is just false. The recent increase of hospital covid admissions
is simply because they have spare capacity, and get well-paid from the >government for used covid beds, so they encourage anybody with a
drippy nose, especially children. to take a bed for a few days.
Hospitals and clinics around NZ are getting every bit of government
funding they can, so expensive treatments are utilised as possible.
But there is plenty of capacity, and if demand went up, they would
simply stop offering beds for drippy noses.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jan 2024 05:31:59 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
Countries which try to rely on non-free healthcare tend to find it ... >>>>very expensive.
That was not my point. I was pointing out that taxes are exacted
everywhere and therefore are not poltically motivated.
But only lefties want to use them to give people free healthcare.
That is an interesting statement - and it is absolutely wrong - I am not
a lefty (god forbid) and I want all people to have excellent health care
for the lowest possible cost (ideally completely free)- and I know of
many who feel the same - probably thousands - and if I know of thousands
then how many are there?. Your claim is wrong.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
We all are paying. About half what it costs per head to fund a US-style >>health-insurance system. So we all are paying ... and saving.
In NZ these days if you want good health care for the likes of
specialist and hospital treatments you need health insurance here as
well..
On Fri, 19 Jan 2024 23:01:03 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:I have actually done that and on many occasions.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jan 2024 05:31:59 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
Countries which try to rely on non-free healthcare tend to find it ... >>>>>very expensive.
That was not my point. I was pointing out that taxes are exacted
everywhere and therefore are not poltically motivated.
But only lefties want to use them to give people free healthcare.
That is an interesting statement - and it is absolutely wrong - I am not
a lefty (god forbid) and I want all people to have excellent health care
for the lowest possible cost (ideally completely free)- and I know of
many who feel the same - probably thousands - and if I know of thousands
then how many are there?. Your claim is wrong.
Go talk to somebody in the US, then, about state-funded healthcare. They
will tell you you’re a leftie.
Public hospitals are not paid any more for having Covid patients.
Those in ICU make it more difficult to plan some operations,
They do not admit patients for drippy noses unless there is a lot more
behind that symptom.
On Sat, 20 Jan 2024 15:48:53 +1300, Mutley wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
We all are paying. About half what it costs per head to fund a US-style >>>health-insurance system. So we all are paying ... and saving.
In NZ these days if you want good health care for the likes of
specialist and hospital treatments you need health insurance here as
well..
Sure. But the cost of that health insurance is a fraction of what it is in >the USA.
On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 02:34:25 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro ><ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Sat, 20 Jan 2024 15:48:53 +1300, Mutley wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
We all are paying. About half what it costs per head to fund a US-style >>>>health-insurance system. So we all are paying ... and saving.
In NZ these days if you want good health care for the likes of
specialist and hospital treatments you need health insurance here as
well..
Sure. But the cost of that health insurance is a fraction of what it is in >>the USA.
That is because the biggest cost factor in healthcare provision (at
ALL levels) in the USA is public liability (ie negligence lawsuit)
liability.
When I lived in the USA in the early 90s I provided software support
to a mutually-owned (ie owned by its customers) insurance company (a
customer of my employer) that insured what we call GPs. Doctors were >required to come to the assistance of anyone they encountered at any
time that required treatment they were qualified to provide, so
liability applied 7/24. In those pre-internet days, GPs used an 1-800
number to call in each day when they went on and off duty (ie 'on'
when opening their practice, 'off' for 'lunch break', 'on' for >'back-from-lunch', 'off' for close-of-practice). Their monthly
premiums were calculated for their 'on' hours because their liability
was considerably higher for 'on' vs 'off' hours.
Other overheads such as rent, staff costs etc. were less.
Punitive damages as a concept is the biggest contributor to public
liability insurance costs in the USA, particularly for GPs.
On Sat, 20 Jan 2024 05:48:35 +1300, BR wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 21:04:53 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 12:41:34 -0800 (PST), JohnO wrote:
Lefties really are the scum of humanity.
Without lefties, you would have no free healthcare.
"Free" is just another word for "somebody else is paying".
We all are paying.
About half what it costs per head to fund a US-style
health-insurance system. So we all are paying ... and saving.
On Fri, 19 Jan 2024 21:14:21 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro ><ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:A lovely word bludging - I presume you are thinking of more than just
On Sat, 20 Jan 2024 05:48:35 +1300, BR wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 21:04:53 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 12:41:34 -0800 (PST), JohnO wrote:
Lefties really are the scum of humanity.
Without lefties, you would have no free healthcare.
"Free" is just another word for "somebody else is paying".
We all are paying.
No we are not all paying. There are many people who have never paid
anything, i.e. there are people who have spent their whole lives
bludging.
About half what it costs per head to fund a US-style
health-insurance system. So we all are paying ... and saving.
Some people are paying twice. They have private medical insurance, but
are still required to fund government healthcare via taxes.
Bill.
Thanks Crash for that clarification. We can be very thankful for ACC
and Pharmac - combined they save us millions. ACC is not perfect, but >thankfully National have given up on trying to privatise it - it runs
at much lower cost than private companies could run that sort of
insurance.
On Fri, 19 Jan 2024 21:14:21 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro ><ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Sat, 20 Jan 2024 05:48:35 +1300, BR wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 21:04:53 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 12:41:34 -0800 (PST), JohnO wrote:
Lefties really are the scum of humanity.
Without lefties, you would have no free healthcare.
"Free" is just another word for "somebody else is paying".
We all are paying.
No we are not all paying. There are many people who have never paid
anything, i.e. there are people who have spent their whole lives
bludging.
About half what it costs per head to fund a US-style
health-insurance system. So we all are paying ... and saving.
Some people are paying twice. They have private medical insurance, but
are still required to fund government healthcare via taxes.
On Mon, 22 Jan 2024 05:07:05 +1300, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:Can you give a reference for those payments, Crash. I do know that
On Fri, 19 Jan 2024 21:14:21 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro >><ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Sat, 20 Jan 2024 05:48:35 +1300, BR wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 21:04:53 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 12:41:34 -0800 (PST), JohnO wrote:
Lefties really are the scum of humanity.
Without lefties, you would have no free healthcare.
"Free" is just another word for "somebody else is paying".
We all are paying.
No we are not all paying. There are many people who have never paid >>anything, i.e. there are people who have spent their whole lives
bludging.
About half what it costs per head to fund a US-style
health-insurance system. So we all are paying ... and saving.
Some people are paying twice. They have private medical insurance, but
are still required to fund government healthcare via taxes.
That is a bit misleading in that all private health providers receive
state subsidies that is supposed to cover what it would have cost to
for equivalent taxpayer-funded care.
It is completely inadequate
because private providers provide a higher level of care and in some >circumstances care that the taxpayer does not provide. Health
insurance helps bridge the funding gap but does not always cover the
total cost of treatment.
On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 11:02:26 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>Oh what a fool you are, if you knew anything about the USA you would not ask that question - oh wait, maybe you would - just because you are asinine.
wrote:
On Sunday 21 January 2024 at 15:34:27 UTC+13, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Sat, 20 Jan 2024 15:48:53 +1300, Mutley wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l...@nz.invalid> wrote:Sure. But the cost of that health insurance is a fraction of what it is in >>> the USA.
We all are paying. About half what it costs per head to fund a US-style >>> >>health-insurance system. So we all are paying ... and saving.
In NZ these days if you want good health care for the likes of
specialist and hospital treatments you need health insurance here as
well..
There are many differences in the USA - starting with the cost of litigation. >>Drawing comparisons with them is pointless and misleading.
What is misleading, JohnO?
On Sun, 21 Jan 2024, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Crash for that clarification. We can be very thankful for ACC
and Pharmac - combined they save us millions. ACC is not perfect, but >>thankfully National have given up on trying to privatise it - it runs
at much lower cost than private companies could run that sort of
insurance.
Aaanndd, just for a change -- I completely agree with Rich here.
However, Labour always tinkers with ACC, such as providing suicide
cover back in the 1990's (a disaster as it prompted people to commit >suicide), and there were other disastrous modifications proposed a few
years ago by Labour (all guaranteed to make ACC costs spiral out of
control), the details of which I don't remember, and which hopefully
never got implemented, or if they did then we're counting on National
to revoke them. Right, Rich?
On Mon, 22 Jan 2024 05:07:05 +1300, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:Wow you really do hate freedom of action don't you. Fess up - you would ban private health care - indeed you have suggested that before- You are a creep/
On Fri, 19 Jan 2024 21:14:21 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro >><ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:A lovely word bludging - I presume you are thinking of more than just >partners of senior politicians, stay at home parents, children,
On Sat, 20 Jan 2024 05:48:35 +1300, BR wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 21:04:53 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 12:41:34 -0800 (PST), JohnO wrote:
Lefties really are the scum of humanity.
Without lefties, you would have no free healthcare.
"Free" is just another word for "somebody else is paying".
We all are paying.
No we are not all paying. There are many people who have never paid >>anything, i.e. there are people who have spent their whole lives
bludging.
prisoners, those in residential care of various kinds, and those
surviving (less well than previously) on NZ Superannuation. Who have I
missed that you were trying to insult, BR; I presume you were not
just referring to the partners of successive Prime Ministers . . .
For all of those of course someone is paying taxes such as GST on any
costs incurred in looking after their welfare - in fact one of the
most significant moves in our tax system was the move from income tax
being the major form of taxation to introduce and then increase
consumption taxes such as GST, excise taxes etc.
About half what it costs per head to fund a US-style
health-insurance system. So we all are paying ... and saving.
Some people are paying twice. They have private medical insurance, but
are still required to fund government healthcare via taxes.
And that is their choice of course; many are not able to afford
medical insurance (especially as they get older), but there are still >substantial costs to the health system though subsidies for General >Practitioners, and to cover medical care that private health insurers
do not cover - many of our most expensive cancer treatments for
example are not covered under most health insurance policies. So by
all means take out private medical insurance - it may enable you to
"jump the queue" for some elective treatments, and avoid having to
wait while more urgent cases get dealt with; and in a few cases
private hospitals are able to encourage such preferential treatment by
being able to afford new technology - but you will still be relying on
the public system for affordable GP consultation fees, for a lot of
free medical testing, for emergency treatment, and for some services
not sufficiently profitable for your insurance company.
Bill.
On Sunday 21 January 2024 at 15:34:27 UTC+13, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Sat, 20 Jan 2024 15:48:53 +1300, Mutley wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l...@nz.invalid> wrote:Sure. But the cost of that health insurance is a fraction of what it is in >> the USA.
We all are paying. About half what it costs per head to fund a US-style
health-insurance system. So we all are paying ... and saving.
In NZ these days if you want good health care for the likes of
specialist and hospital treatments you need health insurance here as
well..
There are many differences in the USA - starting with the cost of litigation. Drawing comparisons with them is pointless and misleading.
On Monday 22 January 2024 at 05:04:43 UTC+13, BR wrote:Could you give a theoretical example of that, JohnO, based on a family
On Fri, 19 Jan 2024 21:14:21 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<l...@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Sat, 20 Jan 2024 05:48:35 +1300, BR wrote:No we are not all paying. There are many people who have never paid
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 21:04:53 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<l...@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 12:41:34 -0800 (PST), JohnO wrote:
Lefties really are the scum of humanity.
Without lefties, you would have no free healthcare.
"Free" is just another word for "somebody else is paying".
We all are paying.
anything, i.e. there are people who have spent their whole lives
bludging.
About half what it costs per head to fund a US-styleSome people are paying twice. They have private medical insurance, but
health-insurance system. So we all are paying ... and saving.
are still required to fund government healthcare via taxes.
Bill.
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
Indeed. The top 10% pay most of the tax in NZ. Due to WFF transfers there's a vast segment of NZ that pay no net tax despite having significant incomes.
On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 21:11:06 -0000 (UTC), TonyYou!
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 22 Jan 2024 05:07:05 +1300, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:Wow you really do hate freedom of action don't you. Fess up - you would ban >>private health care - indeed you have suggested that before- You are a creep/
On Fri, 19 Jan 2024 21:14:21 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro >>>><ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:A lovely word bludging - I presume you are thinking of more than just >>>partners of senior politicians, stay at home parents, children, >>>prisoners, those in residential care of various kinds, and those >>>surviving (less well than previously) on NZ Superannuation. Who have I >>>missed that you were trying to insult, BR; I presume you were not
On Sat, 20 Jan 2024 05:48:35 +1300, BR wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 21:04:53 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 12:41:34 -0800 (PST), JohnO wrote:
Lefties really are the scum of humanity.
Without lefties, you would have no free healthcare.
"Free" is just another word for "somebody else is paying".
We all are paying.
No we are not all paying. There are many people who have never paid >>>>anything, i.e. there are people who have spent their whole lives >>>>bludging.
just referring to the partners of successive Prime Ministers . . .
For all of those of course someone is paying taxes such as GST on any >>>costs incurred in looking after their welfare - in fact one of the
most significant moves in our tax system was the move from income tax >>>being the major form of taxation to introduce and then increase >>>consumption taxes such as GST, excise taxes etc.
About half what it costs per head to fund a US-style
health-insurance system. So we all are paying ... and saving.
Some people are paying twice. They have private medical insurance, but >>>>are still required to fund government healthcare via taxes.
And that is their choice of course; many are not able to afford
medical insurance (especially as they get older), but there are still >>>substantial costs to the health system though subsidies for General >>>Practitioners, and to cover medical care that private health insurers
do not cover - many of our most expensive cancer treatments for
example are not covered under most health insurance policies. So by
all means take out private medical insurance - it may enable you to
"jump the queue" for some elective treatments, and avoid having to
wait while more urgent cases get dealt with; and in a few cases
private hospitals are able to encourage such preferential treatment by >>>being able to afford new technology - but you will still be relying on >>>the public system for affordable GP consultation fees, for a lot of
free medical testing, for emergency treatment, and for some services
not sufficiently profitable for your insurance company.
Where did that come from, Tony?
I had health insurance for most of myYour health is not the topic - do try to keep up.
working life, in New Zealand and Australia, but not in the UK; and I
was at one time a Director of a health insurance company in New
Zealand. Taking private health insurance is nearly essential in the
USA, desirable in Australia, and I believe for most people optional in
the UK and New Zealand. I do take out travel insurance however;
primarily for the health cover included. I have no problems with
people taking out health insurance, but it is not an efficient way of >providing services for needs that are largely identical for all people
- the higher transaction costs are in an economic sense wasted money
for our community - the costs of assessing cover and collecting
premiums takes around 15% to 20% of the premiums that policyholders
pay. That was part of the reason that part payments were abandoned
for public hospitals. Freedom of choice is all very well, but from a >nation-wide perspective most governments would rather spend money on
medical staff than on pushing paper.
Bill.
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 22 Jan 2024 05:07:05 +1300, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:Wow you really do hate freedom of action don't you. Fess up - you would ban >private health care - indeed you have suggested that before- You are a creep/
On Fri, 19 Jan 2024 21:14:21 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro >>><ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:A lovely word bludging - I presume you are thinking of more than just >>partners of senior politicians, stay at home parents, children,
On Sat, 20 Jan 2024 05:48:35 +1300, BR wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 21:04:53 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 12:41:34 -0800 (PST), JohnO wrote:
Lefties really are the scum of humanity.
Without lefties, you would have no free healthcare.
"Free" is just another word for "somebody else is paying".
We all are paying.
No we are not all paying. There are many people who have never paid >>>anything, i.e. there are people who have spent their whole lives >>>bludging.
prisoners, those in residential care of various kinds, and those
surviving (less well than previously) on NZ Superannuation. Who have I >>missed that you were trying to insult, BR; I presume you were not
just referring to the partners of successive Prime Ministers . . .
For all of those of course someone is paying taxes such as GST on any
costs incurred in looking after their welfare - in fact one of the
most significant moves in our tax system was the move from income tax
being the major form of taxation to introduce and then increase
consumption taxes such as GST, excise taxes etc.
About half what it costs per head to fund a US-style
health-insurance system. So we all are paying ... and saving.
Some people are paying twice. They have private medical insurance, but >>>are still required to fund government healthcare via taxes.
And that is their choice of course; many are not able to afford
medical insurance (especially as they get older), but there are still >>substantial costs to the health system though subsidies for General >>Practitioners, and to cover medical care that private health insurers
do not cover - many of our most expensive cancer treatments for
example are not covered under most health insurance policies. So by
all means take out private medical insurance - it may enable you to
"jump the queue" for some elective treatments, and avoid having to
wait while more urgent cases get dealt with; and in a few cases
private hospitals are able to encourage such preferential treatment by >>being able to afford new technology - but you will still be relying on
the public system for affordable GP consultation fees, for a lot of
free medical testing, for emergency treatment, and for some services
not sufficiently profitable for your insurance company.
Bill.
On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 20:13:07 GMT, wn@qwert.com (Willy Nilly) wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jan 2024, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:Not an easy policy area - see for example: >https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/126063842/acc-rules-have-failed-grieving-families-of-suicide-victims-since-2010
Thanks Crash for that clarification. We can be very thankful for ACC
and Pharmac - combined they save us millions. ACC is not perfect, but >>>thankfully National have given up on trying to privatise it - it runs
at much lower cost than private companies could run that sort of >>>insurance.
Aaanndd, just for a change -- I completely agree with Rich here.
However, Labour always tinkers with ACC, such as providing suicide
cover back in the 1990's (a disaster as it prompted people to commit >>suicide), and there were other disastrous modifications proposed a few >>years ago by Labour (all guaranteed to make ACC costs spiral out of >>control), the details of which I don't remember, and which hopefully
never got implemented, or if they did then we're counting on National
to revoke them. Right, Rich?
and >https://www.acc.co.nz/assets/Policy-and-procedure-documents/cover-criteria-for-accidental-death-claim-policy.pdf
On Mon, 22 Jan 2024, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:No I don't - where did you get that idea from?
On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 20:13:07 GMT, wn@qwert.com (Willy Nilly) wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jan 2024, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:Not an easy policy area - see for example: >>https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/126063842/acc-rules-have-failed-grieving-families-of-suicide-victims-since-2010
Thanks Crash for that clarification. We can be very thankful for ACC >>>>and Pharmac - combined they save us millions. ACC is not perfect, but >>>>thankfully National have given up on trying to privatise it - it runs >>>>at much lower cost than private companies could run that sort of >>>>insurance.
Aaanndd, just for a change -- I completely agree with Rich here.
However, Labour always tinkers with ACC, such as providing suicide
cover back in the 1990's (a disaster as it prompted people to commit >>>suicide), and there were other disastrous modifications proposed a few >>>years ago by Labour (all guaranteed to make ACC costs spiral out of >>>control), the details of which I don't remember, and which hopefully >>>never got implemented, or if they did then we're counting on National
to revoke them. Right, Rich?
and >>https://www.acc.co.nz/assets/Policy-and-procedure-documents/cover-criteria-for-accidental-death-claim-policy.pdf
Rich, you weasel, first you praise ACC for its low cost, then you want
to burden it with huge additional costs. The only principle that you
ever consistently apply is -- more Communism.
Most Americans are to the right of most New Zealanders but that does not
make us lefties.
On Sunday 21 January 2024 at 15:34:27 UTC+13, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Sat, 20 Jan 2024 15:48:53 +1300, Mutley wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l...@nz.invalid> wrote:
We all are paying. About half what it costs per head to fund a
US-style health-insurance system. So we all are paying ... and
saving.
In NZ these days if you want good health care for the likes of
specialist and hospital treatments you need health insurance here as
well..
Sure. But the cost of that health insurance is a fraction of what it is
in the USA.
There are many differences in the USA - starting with the cost of
litigation. Drawing comparisons with them is pointless and misleading.
On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 03:26:37 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:Not in any meaningful way - just because the USA is to the right does not mean we hold lefty views - there is no logic in that.
Most Americans are to the right of most New Zealanders but that does not
make us lefties.
Since they are pretty much the centre of mass of the rightie world, yes it >does.
On Monday 22 January 2024 at 19:54:27 UTC+13, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 03:26:37 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:
Most Americans are to the right of most New Zealanders but that does not >> > make us lefties.Since they are pretty much the centre of mass of the rightie world, yes it >> does.
You don't understand the USA and its federal nature. Some states especially the west coast states from Washington to California and the North East are absolutely miles to the left of New Zealand.
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 22 Jan 2024 11:13:43 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> >>wrote:Nonsense - the Democrats are well to the right of National.
On Monday 22 January 2024 at 19:54:27 UTC+13, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: >>>> On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 03:26:37 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:
Most Americans are to the right of most New Zealanders but that does not >>>> > make us lefties.Since they are pretty much the centre of mass of the rightie world, yes it >>>> does.
You don't understand the USA and its federal nature. Some states especially >>>the west coast states from Washington to California and the North East are >>>absolutely miles to the left of New Zealand.
New Zealand's dealings with the USA are largely in relation to trade, >>tourism and defence - we may get a bit closer as National has for a
long time encouraged mutual support between their party here and the >>Republicans in the USA, but we will I believe try to retain an
independent foreign policy stance.
Both the Democratic and Republican parties are overall very much to
the right on economic issues - with the Democrats about as right wing
as National here.
Federal politics dominate economic policies; as forNo, Labour are well to the left in NZ and the Greens are even further left in >fact Marxist or communist.
Australia, the States are limited in how much they can impact on such >>matters, and as federal decisions on matters such as termination of >>pregnancies show, their Supreme Court is extremely right wing.
I would however be interested in any evidence of the left-leaning
status of the west coast states - how is that evident?
Labour is centre-right in New Zealand,
but still definitely to theThe fact is they are centre right.
left of National, and hence even further to the left of ACT. National
like to call themselves "centre-right", but the reality is that they >>attract very few from the centre of politics.
Why do you persist with these obvious lies, you have never provided credible >evidence for your fantasies.
On Tuesday 23 January 2024 at 14:38:02 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:See here:
On Mon, 22 Jan 2024 11:13:43 -0800 (PST), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Monday 22 January 2024 at 19:54:27 UTC+13, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:New Zealand's dealings with the USA are largely in relation to trade,
On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 03:26:37 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:
Most Americans are to the right of most New Zealanders but that does notSince they are pretty much the centre of mass of the rightie world, yes it
make us lefties.
does.
You don't understand the USA and its federal nature. Some states especially the west coast states from Washington to California and the North East are absolutely miles to the left of New Zealand.
tourism and defence - we may get a bit closer as National has for a
long time encouraged mutual support between their party here and the
Republicans in the USA, but we will I believe try to retain an
independent foreign policy stance.
Both the Democratic and Republican parties are overall very much to
the right on economic issues - with the Democrats about as right wing
as National here. Federal politics dominate economic policies; as for
Australia, the States are limited in how much they can impact on such
matters, and as federal decisions on matters such as termination of
pregnancies show, their Supreme Court is extremely right wing.
I would however be interested in any evidence of the left-leaning
status of the west coast states - how is that evident?
Labour is centre-right in New Zealand,
You are an ignorant fool.
On Mon, 22 Jan 2024 11:13:43 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>Nonsense - the Democrats are well to the right of National.
wrote:
On Monday 22 January 2024 at 19:54:27 UTC+13, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 03:26:37 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:
Most Americans are to the right of most New Zealanders but that does not >>> > make us lefties.Since they are pretty much the centre of mass of the rightie world, yes it >>> does.
You don't understand the USA and its federal nature. Some states especially >>the west coast states from Washington to California and the North East are >>absolutely miles to the left of New Zealand.
New Zealand's dealings with the USA are largely in relation to trade,
tourism and defence - we may get a bit closer as National has for a
long time encouraged mutual support between their party here and the >Republicans in the USA, but we will I believe try to retain an
independent foreign policy stance.
Both the Democratic and Republican parties are overall very much to
the right on economic issues - with the Democrats about as right wing
as National here.
Federal politics dominate economic policies; as forNo, Labour are well to the left in NZ and the Greens are even further left in fact Marxist or communist.
Australia, the States are limited in how much they can impact on such >matters, and as federal decisions on matters such as termination of >pregnancies show, their Supreme Court is extremely right wing.
I would however be interested in any evidence of the left-leaning
status of the west coast states - how is that evident?
Labour is centre-right in New Zealand,
but still definitely to theThe fact is they are centre right.
left of National, and hence even further to the left of ACT. National
like to call themselves "centre-right", but the reality is that they
attract very few from the centre of politics.
On Tuesday 23 January 2024 at 14:38:02 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:He is a paid political Labour supporter and believes whatever he is fed by his masters. He reminds me of the dog on the HMV logo, patiently absorbing everything he hears from the one source of truth.
On Mon, 22 Jan 2024 11:13:43 -0800 (PST), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Monday 22 January 2024 at 19:54:27 UTC+13, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:New Zealand's dealings with the USA are largely in relation to trade,
On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 03:26:37 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:
Most Americans are to the right of most New Zealanders but that doesSince they are pretty much the centre of mass of the rightie world, yes >> >>it
not
make us lefties.
does.
You don't understand the USA and its federal nature. Some states especially >> >the west coast states from Washington to California and the North East are >> >absolutely miles to the left of New Zealand.
tourism and defence - we may get a bit closer as National has for a
long time encouraged mutual support between their party here and the
Republicans in the USA, but we will I believe try to retain an
independent foreign policy stance.
Both the Democratic and Republican parties are overall very much to
the right on economic issues - with the Democrats about as right wing
as National here. Federal politics dominate economic policies; as for
Australia, the States are limited in how much they can impact on such
matters, and as federal decisions on matters such as termination of
pregnancies show, their Supreme Court is extremely right wing.
I would however be interested in any evidence of the left-leaning
status of the west coast states - how is that evident?
Labour is centre-right in New Zealand,
You are an ignorant fool.
On Tue, 23 Jan 2024 03:37:28 -0000 (UTC), TonyThen you understand nothing. The political compass does not have any data on its site that supports or justifies the conclusions it publishes. You have been told that multiple times and yet you continue to use what is obviously a left wing political site to prove your folishness.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 22 Jan 2024 11:13:43 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> >>>wrote:Nonsense - the Democrats are well to the right of National.
On Monday 22 January 2024 at 19:54:27 UTC+13, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: >>>>> On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 03:26:37 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:
Most Americans are to the right of most New Zealanders but that does >>>>> >notSince they are pretty much the centre of mass of the rightie world, yes >>>>>it
make us lefties.
does.
You don't understand the USA and its federal nature. Some states especially >>>>the west coast states from Washington to California and the North East are >>>>absolutely miles to the left of New Zealand.
New Zealand's dealings with the USA are largely in relation to trade, >>>tourism and defence - we may get a bit closer as National has for a
long time encouraged mutual support between their party here and the >>>Republicans in the USA, but we will I believe try to retain an >>>independent foreign policy stance.
Both the Democratic and Republican parties are overall very much to
the right on economic issues - with the Democrats about as right wing
as National here.
Federal politics dominate economic policies; as forNo, Labour are well to the left in NZ and the Greens are even further left in >>fact Marxist or communist.
Australia, the States are limited in how much they can impact on such >>>matters, and as federal decisions on matters such as termination of >>>pregnancies show, their Supreme Court is extremely right wing.
I would however be interested in any evidence of the left-leaning
status of the west coast states - how is that evident?
Labour is centre-right in New Zealand,
but still definitely to theThe fact is they are centre right.
left of National, and hence even further to the left of ACT. National >>>like to call themselves "centre-right", but the reality is that they >>>attract very few from the centre of politics.
Why do you persist with these obvious lies, you have never provided credible >>evidence for your fantasies.
No fantasy, Tony - I leave those to you. See >https://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2023
And I do understand that you will claim it is wrong purely because you
don't like the answers . . .
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 22 Jan 2024 19:39:14 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> >>wrote:Marxist garbage.
On Tuesday 23 January 2024 at 14:38:02 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:See here:
On Mon, 22 Jan 2024 11:13:43 -0800 (PST), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Monday 22 January 2024 at 19:54:27 UTC+13, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: >>>> >> On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 03:26:37 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:New Zealand's dealings with the USA are largely in relation to trade,
Most Americans are to the right of most New Zealanders but that does >>>> >> >notSince they are pretty much the centre of mass of the rightie world, yes >>>> >>it
make us lefties.
does.
You don't understand the USA and its federal nature. Some states
especially the west coast states from Washington to California and the North
East are absolutely miles to the left of New Zealand.
tourism and defence - we may get a bit closer as National has for a
long time encouraged mutual support between their party here and the
Republicans in the USA, but we will I believe try to retain an
independent foreign policy stance.
Both the Democratic and Republican parties are overall very much to
the right on economic issues - with the Democrats about as right wing
as National here. Federal politics dominate economic policies; as for
Australia, the States are limited in how much they can impact on such
matters, and as federal decisions on matters such as termination of
pregnancies show, their Supreme Court is extremely right wing.
I would however be interested in any evidence of the left-leaning
status of the west coast states - how is that evident?
Labour is centre-right in New Zealand,
You are an ignorant fool.
https://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2023
On Tue, 23 Jan 2024 05:54:51 -0000 (UTC), TonyMaybe you could rephrase that if you have sobered up.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 22 Jan 2024 19:39:14 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> >>>wrote:Marxist garbage.
On Tuesday 23 January 2024 at 14:38:02 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:See here:
On Mon, 22 Jan 2024 11:13:43 -0800 (PST), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Monday 22 January 2024 at 19:54:27 UTC+13, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: >>>>> >> On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 03:26:37 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:New Zealand's dealings with the USA are largely in relation to trade, >>>>> tourism and defence - we may get a bit closer as National has for a
Most Americans are to the right of most New Zealanders but that does >>>>> >> >notSince they are pretty much the centre of mass of the rightie world, >>>>> >>yes
make us lefties.
it
does.
You don't understand the USA and its federal nature. Some states
especially the west coast states from Washington to California and the >>>>> >North
East are absolutely miles to the left of New Zealand.
long time encouraged mutual support between their party here and the >>>>> Republicans in the USA, but we will I believe try to retain an
independent foreign policy stance.
Both the Democratic and Republican parties are overall very much to
the right on economic issues - with the Democrats about as right wing >>>>> as National here. Federal politics dominate economic policies; as for >>>>> Australia, the States are limited in how much they can impact on such >>>>> matters, and as federal decisions on matters such as termination of
pregnancies show, their Supreme Court is extremely right wing.
I would however be interested in any evidence of the left-leaning
status of the west coast states - how is that evident?
Labour is centre-right in New Zealand,
You are an ignorant fool.
https://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2023
Indeed to Trumpists, everyone else is an enemy marxist . . .
JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tuesday 23 January 2024 at 14:38:02 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:He is a paid political Labour supporter and believes whatever he is fed by his
On Mon, 22 Jan 2024 11:13:43 -0800 (PST), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Monday 22 January 2024 at 19:54:27 UTC+13, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: >>> >> On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 03:26:37 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:New Zealand's dealings with the USA are largely in relation to trade,
Most Americans are to the right of most New Zealanders but that does >>> >> >notSince they are pretty much the centre of mass of the rightie world, yes >>> >>it
make us lefties.
does.
You don't understand the USA and its federal nature. Some states especially
the west coast states from Washington to California and the North East are >>> >absolutely miles to the left of New Zealand.
tourism and defence - we may get a bit closer as National has for a
long time encouraged mutual support between their party here and the
Republicans in the USA, but we will I believe try to retain an
independent foreign policy stance.
Both the Democratic and Republican parties are overall very much to
the right on economic issues - with the Democrats about as right wing
as National here. Federal politics dominate economic policies; as for
Australia, the States are limited in how much they can impact on such
matters, and as federal decisions on matters such as termination of
pregnancies show, their Supreme Court is extremely right wing.
I would however be interested in any evidence of the left-leaning
status of the west coast states - how is that evident?
Labour is centre-right in New Zealand,
You are an ignorant fool.
masters. He reminds me of the dog on the HMV logo, patiently absorbing everything he hears from the one source of truth.
On 2024-01-23, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:Yes that's the one.
JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tuesday 23 January 2024 at 14:38:02 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:He is a paid political Labour supporter and believes whatever he is fed by >>his
On Mon, 22 Jan 2024 11:13:43 -0800 (PST), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Monday 22 January 2024 at 19:54:27 UTC+13, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: >>>> >> On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 03:26:37 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:New Zealand's dealings with the USA are largely in relation to trade,
Most Americans are to the right of most New Zealanders but that does >>>> >> >notSince they are pretty much the centre of mass of the rightie world, yes >>>> >>it
make us lefties.
does.
You don't understand the USA and its federal nature. Some states
especially
the west coast states from Washington to California and the North East >>>> >are
absolutely miles to the left of New Zealand.
tourism and defence - we may get a bit closer as National has for a
long time encouraged mutual support between their party here and the
Republicans in the USA, but we will I believe try to retain an
independent foreign policy stance.
Both the Democratic and Republican parties are overall very much to
the right on economic issues - with the Democrats about as right wing
as National here. Federal politics dominate economic policies; as for
Australia, the States are limited in how much they can impact on such
matters, and as federal decisions on matters such as termination of
pregnancies show, their Supreme Court is extremely right wing.
I would however be interested in any evidence of the left-leaning
status of the west coast states - how is that evident?
Labour is centre-right in New Zealand,
You are an ignorant fool.
masters. He reminds me of the dog on the HMV logo, patiently absorbing
everything he hears from the one source of truth.
Was not the slogan, His masters voice. The dog as Nipper.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/His_Master%27s_Voice
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 03:26:37 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:
Most Americans are to the right of most New Zealanders but that does
not make us lefties.
Since they are pretty much the centre of mass of the rightie world, yes
it does.
Not in any meaningful way - just because the USA is to the right does
not mean we hold lefty views - there is no logic in that.
On Mon, 22 Jan 2024 19:03:44 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:Nonsense. Just because we are left of some other country does not make us "lefties". That is completely illogical.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 03:26:37 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:
Most Americans are to the right of most New Zealanders but that does
not make us lefties.
Since they are pretty much the centre of mass of the rightie world, yes >>>it does.
Not in any meaningful way - just because the USA is to the right does
not mean we hold lefty views - there is no logic in that.
No “logic” ... just the overwhelming political/religious/financial/ >military might of the USA.
On Tuesday 23 January 2024 at 14:38:02 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
Labour is centre-right in New Zealand,
You are an ignorant fool.
Rich, you weasel, first you praise ACC for its low cost, then you want
to burden it with huge additional costs.
On Friday 19 January 2024 at 10:32:35 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 12:42:54 -0800 (PST), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Friday 19 January 2024 at 09:32:56 UTC+13, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 21:40:40 +1300, Rich80105 wrote:Indeed - and for this reason a lot of M?ori nonsense needs to be removed - specifically animist mythology that is getting in the way of people living their lives.
There was indeed a lot of sympathy for Judith Collins when sheThis is why, democracies have to be secular -- they must look after the >> >> welfare of all their citizens equally, regardless of ethnicity, religion, >> >> sexuality etc. Church/temple/mosque/whatever has no place in Government. >> >
arranged to be photographed praying in a church - it was rightly seen >> >> > as the end of an era for both her and her political party.
So you want to ban religious belief? Certainly the proportion of
Not even close to what I suggested. You are such a stupid little fuck.
those stating in the census that they have no religious belief is
growing, but I suspect Christianity is still the most numerous
acknowledged religion - and that covers both Maori and Pakeha.
So how should it be removed, JohnO? And why?
Removed from legislation you dimwit. NZ law should be secular and have no imposition of some people's weird beliefs upon others.
On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 05:38:46 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:Except it is not true, lefty is an absolute - left of somewhere is relative. They are not the same.
Just because we are left of some other country does not make
us "lefties". That is completely illogical.
Doesn’t make it any less true.
Didn't what? A complete sentence would help.Next somebody will say that just because we are west of Argentina we are
westies or some other silliness.
You said it, I didn’t.
On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 22:39:28 GMT, Willy Nilly wrote:
Rich, you weasel, first you praise ACC for its low cost, then you want
to burden it with huge additional costs.
Somebody has to pay those costs. There is the social cost of the
suffering, and the consequent economic cost of the inability of the
sufferers to contribute to the economy.
The whole point of lefty/Socialist Government services is to cushion the
blow to individuals by spreading these costs over everybody. Even if you >ignore the issue of compassion, you can think of it as �social self- >interest�.
Just because we are left of some other country does not make
us "lefties". That is completely illogical.
Next somebody will say that just because we are west of Argentina we are westies or some other silliness.
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