https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/swarbrick-not-backing-down-green-mp-refuses-to-apologise-over-luxon-demonstrable-lie-claim/ar-AA1lpZLD?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=58f58cb172c343668eae175bbc64f025&ei=16
Swarbrick makes up her own rules as she continues down the path of trying to damage our democracy - This should go to the Privileges Committee, she needs to
mature.
On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 02:18:01 -0000 (UTC), TonyThere are MPs (not just National) who know infinitely more than you about this and in fact probably about everything (and most of them are not all that bright). Many of them believe the Privileges Committee is appropriate. Why don't you stick to something you understand like lying, defamation, and sarcasm.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/swarbrick-not-backing-down-green-mp-refuses-to-apologise-over-luxon-demonstrable-lie-claim/ar-AA1lpZLD?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=58f58cb172c343668eae175bbc64f025&ei=16
Swarbrick makes up her own rules as she continues down the path of trying to >>damage our democracy - This should go to the Privileges Committee, she needs >>to
mature.
Brownlee is not that silly, Tony. She has already apologised for using
the word lie, and clarified that she should have said it was
demonstrably false. See:- >https://nickrockel.substack.com/p/demonstrations-and-demonstrables?
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/swarbrick-not-backing-down-green-mp-refuses-to-apologise-over-luxon-demonstrable-lie-claim/ar-AA1lpZLD?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=58f58cb172c343668eae175bbc64f025&ei=16
Swarbrick makes up her own rules as she continues down the path of trying to >damage our democracy - This should go to the Privileges Committee, she needs to
mature.
On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 02:18:01 -0000 (UTC), TonySorry to disagree with you Bill, but she has already won it by several laps. She probably went to the same school as Greta Thunberg from which they were expelled for being too nice.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/swarbrick-not-backing-down-green-mp-refuses-to-apologise-over-luxon-demonstrable-lie-claim/ar-AA1lpZLD?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=58f58cb172c343668eae175bbc64f025&ei=16
Swarbrick makes up her own rules as she continues down the path of trying to >>damage our democracy - This should go to the Privileges Committee, she needs >>to
mature.
Swarbrick is winning the race to become the most toxic politician in >parliament.
Bill.
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This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
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https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/swarbrick-not-backing-down-green-mp-refuses-to-apologise-over-luxon-demonstrable-lie-claim/ar-AA1lpZLD?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=58f58cb172c343668eae175bbc64f025&ei=16
Swarbrick makes up her own rules as she continues down the path of trying to >damage our democracy - This should go to the Privileges Committee, she needs to
mature.
On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 02:18:01 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/swarbrick-not-backing-down-green-mp-refuses-to-apologise-over-luxon-demonstrable-lie-claim/ar-AA1lpZLD?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=58f58cb172c343668eae175bbc64f025&ei=16
Swarbrick makes up her own rules as she continues down the path of trying to >>damage our democracy - This should go to the Privileges Committee, she needs to
mature.
Brownlee is not that silly, Tony. She has already apologised for using
the word lie, and clarified that she should have said it was
demonstrably false. See:- >https://nickrockel.substack.com/p/demonstrations-and-demonstrables?
On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 17:15:35 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 02:18:01 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Swarbrick makes up her own rules as she continues down the path of trying to >>>damage our democracy - This should go to the Privileges Committee, she needs tohttps://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/swarbrick-not-backing-down-green-mp-refuses-to-apologise-over-luxon-demonstrable-lie-claim/ar-AA1lpZLD?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=58f58cb172c343668eae175bbc64f025&ei=16
mature.
Brownlee is not that silly, Tony. She has already apologised for using
the word lie, and clarified that she should have said it was
demonstrably false. See:- >>https://nickrockel.substack.com/p/demonstrations-and-demonstrables?
Well that was a load of partisan twaddle, but it seems to me that
Swarbrick did not label the PM as a liar. She did comment on what
Luxon said as a 'demonstrable lie'. I personally have no problem with
this - it is not a direct accusation of lying and Parliament is
political theatre for sure. However the outcry from this serves to
remind non-government MPs that heat-of-the-moment inflammatory
comments like this are to be avoided if they wish to keep the focus on
the subject at hand rather than the response to it.
On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 20:37:00 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>You would know, you are the ultimate partisan here and your twaddle is legion.
wrote:
On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 17:15:35 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:
On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 02:18:01 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Swarbrick makes up her own rules as she continues down the path of trying >>>>tohttps://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/swarbrick-not-backing-down-green-mp-refuses-to-apologise-over-luxon-demonstrable-lie-claim/ar-AA1lpZLD?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=58f58cb172c343668eae175bbc64f025&ei=16
damage our democracy - This should go to the Privileges Committee, she >>>>needs to
mature.
Brownlee is not that silly, Tony. She has already apologised for using >>>the word lie, and clarified that she should have said it was
demonstrably false. See:- >>>https://nickrockel.substack.com/p/demonstrations-and-demonstrables?
Well that was a load of partisan twaddle, but it seems to me that
Swarbrick did not label the PM as a liar. She did comment on what
Luxon said as a 'demonstrable lie'. I personally have no problem with
this - it is not a direct accusation of lying and Parliament is
political theatre for sure. However the outcry from this serves to
remind non-government MPs that heat-of-the-moment inflammatory
comments like this are to be avoided if they wish to keep the focus on
the subject at hand rather than the response to it.
Partisan twaddle is perhaps different for different people. I hope
that all MPs have been reminded that inflammatory comments are to be
avoided if they wish to keep the focus on the subject at hand rather
than the response to it. It probably applies to nz.general too . . .
On 14/12/23 15:18, Tony wrote:That is irrelevant. This is not about who lies. All politicians lie.
Swarbrick makes up her own rules as she continues down the path of trying to >> damage our democracy - This should go to the Privileges Committee, she needs >>tohttps://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/swarbrick-not-backing-down-green-mp-refuses-to-apologise-over-luxon-demonstrable-lie-claim/ar-AA1lpZLD?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=58f58cb172c343668eae175bbc64f025&ei=16
mature.
She's not wrong, tho.
Luxon lies.
Now there's a phrase that slips off the tongue.
Rimu Atkinson <rimuatkinson+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On 14/12/23 15:18, Tony wrote:That is irrelevant. This is not about who lies. All politicians lie.
Swarbrick makes up her own rules as she continues down the path of trying tohttps://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/swarbrick-not-backing-down-green-mp-refuses-to-apologise-over-luxon-demonstrable-lie-claim/ar-AA1lpZLD?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=58f58cb172c343668eae175bbc64f025&ei=16
damage our democracy - This should go to the Privileges Committee, she needs
to
mature.
She's not wrong, tho.
Luxon lies.
Now there's a phrase that slips off the tongue.
However saying so in parliament is a serious matter. And for very good reason.
On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 21:40:19 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rimu Atkinson <rimuatkinson+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On 14/12/23 15:18, Tony wrote:That is irrelevant. This is not about who lies. All politicians lie. >>However saying so in parliament is a serious matter. And for very good reason.
Swarbrick makes up her own rules as she continues down the path of trying tohttps://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/swarbrick-not-backing-down-green-mp-refuses-to-apologise-over-luxon-demonstrable-lie-claim/ar-AA1lpZLD?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=58f58cb172c343668eae175bbc64f025&ei=16
damage our democracy - This should go to the Privileges Committee, she needs
to
mature.
She's not wrong, tho.
Luxon lies.
Now there's a phrase that slips off the tongue.
Exactly, Tony - it was right that Swarbrick drew out attention to a
statement that was demonstrably false.
On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 21:40:19 -0000 (UTC), TonyFunny you should say that - I have spend significantly more time with left wing politicians than all others (many years dealing with left wing politicians only), they may have soured my opinion of politicians and maybe centre right politicians are more honest. I am sorry your opinions of politicians does not reflect reality.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rimu Atkinson <rimuatkinson+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On 14/12/23 15:18, Tony wrote:That is irrelevant. This is not about who lies. All politicians lie. >>However saying so in parliament is a serious matter. And for very good reason.
Swarbrick makes up her own rules as she continues down the path of trying >>>>tohttps://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/swarbrick-not-backing-down-green-mp-refuses-to-apologise-over-luxon-demonstrable-lie-claim/ar-AA1lpZLD?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=58f58cb172c343668eae175bbc64f025&ei=16
damage our democracy - This should go to the Privileges Committee, she >>>>needs
to
mature.
She's not wrong, tho.
Luxon lies.
Now there's a phrase that slips off the tongue.
Exactly, Tony - it was right that Swarbrick drew out attention to a
statement that was demonstrably false. All politicians can make
mistakes, as in the article referenced C Luxon appears to have done;
but I disagree with your statement that all politicians lie. Perhaps
you have been spending too much time with politicians from NActFirst .
. .
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 21:40:19 -0000 (UTC), TonyFunny you should say that - I have spend significantly more time with left wing
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rimu Atkinson <rimuatkinson+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On 14/12/23 15:18, Tony wrote:That is irrelevant. This is not about who lies. All politicians lie. >>>However saying so in parliament is a serious matter. And for very good reason.
Swarbrick makes up her own rules as she continues down the path of trying >>>>>tohttps://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/swarbrick-not-backing-down-green-mp-refuses-to-apologise-over-luxon-demonstrable-lie-claim/ar-AA1lpZLD?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=58f58cb172c343668eae175bbc64f025&ei=16
damage our democracy - This should go to the Privileges Committee, she >>>>>needs
to
mature.
She's not wrong, tho.
Luxon lies.
Now there's a phrase that slips off the tongue.
Exactly, Tony - it was right that Swarbrick drew out attention to a >>statement that was demonstrably false. All politicians can make
mistakes, as in the article referenced C Luxon appears to have done;
but I disagree with your statement that all politicians lie. Perhaps
you have been spending too much time with politicians from NActFirst .
. .
politicians than all others (many years dealing with left wing politicians >only), they may have soured my opinion of politicians and maybe centre right >politicians are more honest. I am sorry your opinions of politicians does not >reflect reality.
On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 19:08:00 +1300, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:I am sure that Bill will be happy to read that nonsense - you clearly don't have an answer for his question.
On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 16:19:44 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:
On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 21:40:19 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rimu Atkinson <rimuatkinson+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On 14/12/23 15:18, Tony wrote:That is irrelevant. This is not about who lies. All politicians lie. >>>>However saying so in parliament is a serious matter. And for very good >>>>reason.
Swarbrick makes up her own rules as she continues down the path of >>>>>>trying tohttps://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/swarbrick-not-backing-down-green-mp-refuses-to-apologise-over-luxon-demonstrable-lie-claim/ar-AA1lpZLD?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=58f58cb172c343668eae175bbc64f025&ei=16
damage our democracy - This should go to the Privileges Committee, she >>>>>>needs
to
mature.
She's not wrong, tho.
Luxon lies.
Now there's a phrase that slips off the tongue.
Exactly, Tony - it was right that Swarbrick drew out attention to a >>>statement that was demonstrably false.
What was the statement that was demonstrably false?
Bill.
From the url above:
She said she was "speaking to the content of the policies as put
forward by this Government and the fact that the content of those
policies are a lie".
"If the inference is that therefore the minister or the Prime Minister
are a liar, that wasn't the statement I was making, but I was pointing
out it is demonstrable on the evidence that the undertakings from this >Government is completely contrary to our climate commitments."
Asked by Newshub after Question Time whether she would apologise,
Swarbrick replied: "The evidence is clear and the facts speak for
themselves"
"I came to this House to tell the truth and the Government's policies
are active climate denialism."
Does she stand by effectively calling Luxon a liar?
"Demonstrably, the policies that the government is undertaking will
not keep us within 1.5 degrees of warming."
She said, "demonstrably the content of that statement, as I said in
the House, was a lie."
"So far, as there is an inconsistency between the flowery rhetoric
that is being used and what is necessary to keep us within 1.5 degrees
of warming. This is an existential crisis."
On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 16:19:44 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 21:40:19 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rimu Atkinson <rimuatkinson+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On 14/12/23 15:18, Tony wrote:That is irrelevant. This is not about who lies. All politicians lie. >>>However saying so in parliament is a serious matter. And for very good reason.
Swarbrick makes up her own rules as she continues down the path of trying tohttps://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/swarbrick-not-backing-down-green-mp-refuses-to-apologise-over-luxon-demonstrable-lie-claim/ar-AA1lpZLD?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=58f58cb172c343668eae175bbc64f025&ei=16
damage our democracy - This should go to the Privileges Committee, she needs
to
mature.
She's not wrong, tho.
Luxon lies.
Now there's a phrase that slips off the tongue.
Exactly, Tony - it was right that Swarbrick drew out attention to a >>statement that was demonstrably false.
What was the statement that was demonstrably false?
Bill.
On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 06:39:29 -0000 (UTC), TonyThat is political rhetoric and nothing more.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 21:40:19 -0000 (UTC), TonyFunny you should say that - I have spend significantly more time with left >>wing
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rimu Atkinson <rimuatkinson+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On 14/12/23 15:18, Tony wrote:That is irrelevant. This is not about who lies. All politicians lie. >>>>However saying so in parliament is a serious matter. And for very good >>>>reason.
Swarbrick makes up her own rules as she continues down the path of >>>>>>tryinghttps://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/swarbrick-not-backing-down-green-mp-refuses-to-apologise-over-luxon-demonstrable-lie-claim/ar-AA1lpZLD?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=58f58cb172c343668eae175bbc64f025&ei=16
to
damage our democracy - This should go to the Privileges Committee, she >>>>>>needs
to
mature.
She's not wrong, tho.
Luxon lies.
Now there's a phrase that slips off the tongue.
Exactly, Tony - it was right that Swarbrick drew out attention to a >>>statement that was demonstrably false. All politicians can make
mistakes, as in the article referenced C Luxon appears to have done;
but I disagree with your statement that all politicians lie. Perhaps
you have been spending too much time with politicians from NActFirst .
. .
politicians than all others (many years dealing with left wing politicians >>only), they may have soured my opinion of politicians and maybe centre right >>politicians are more honest. I am sorry your opinions of politicians does not >>reflect reality.
I deliberately referred to NActFirst politicians as they are very new,
and do appear to be a step backwards from previous generations of
politicians of whatever hue. C Luxon and NWillis appear to be
sufficiently out of their depth that they may genuinely believe some
of the rubbish they speak; we can hope that they will learn quickly.
From the article in the url above, you can see that C Luxon may well
have really believed what he said. The point that was being made is
that based on evidence, the statement was so wrong as to be fairly
called a lie, but one that CLuxon may well have genuinely convinced
himself was correct, even while many others knew that it was
demonstrably wrong. Ignorance and incompetence can give the appearance
of dishonesty, and to others have the same effect. Do you understand
the distinction being made, Tony?
On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 19:08:00 +1300, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:
On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 16:19:44 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:
On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 21:40:19 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rimu Atkinson <rimuatkinson+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On 14/12/23 15:18, Tony wrote:That is irrelevant. This is not about who lies. All politicians lie. >>>>However saying so in parliament is a serious matter. And for very good reason.
Swarbrick makes up her own rules as she continues down the path of trying tohttps://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/swarbrick-not-backing-down-green-mp-refuses-to-apologise-over-luxon-demonstrable-lie-claim/ar-AA1lpZLD?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=58f58cb172c343668eae175bbc64f025&ei=16
damage our democracy - This should go to the Privileges Committee, she needs
to
mature.
She's not wrong, tho.
Luxon lies.
Now there's a phrase that slips off the tongue.
Exactly, Tony - it was right that Swarbrick drew out attention to a >>>statement that was demonstrably false.
What was the statement that was demonstrably false?
Bill.
From the url above:
On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 20:16:30 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 19:08:00 +1300, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:
On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 16:19:44 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:
On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 21:40:19 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rimu Atkinson <rimuatkinson+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On 14/12/23 15:18, Tony wrote:That is irrelevant. This is not about who lies. All politicians lie. >>>>>However saying so in parliament is a serious matter. And for very good >>>>>reason.
Swarbrick makes up her own rules as she continues down the path of >>>>>>>trying tohttps://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/swarbrick-not-backing-down-green-mp-refuses-to-apologise-over-luxon-demonstrable-lie-claim/ar-AA1lpZLD?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=58f58cb172c343668eae175bbc64f025&ei=16
damage our democracy - This should go to the Privileges Committee, she >>>>>>>needs
to
mature.
She's not wrong, tho.
Luxon lies.
Now there's a phrase that slips off the tongue.
Exactly, Tony - it was right that Swarbrick drew out attention to a >>>>statement that was demonstrably false.
What was the statement that was demonstrably false?
Bill.
From the url above:
I already know what is in the URL.
What is the statement that is "demonstrably false"?
Quote it verbatim.
Bill.
BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:The link above includes itself a link to: https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/12/green-mp-chl-e-swarbrick-accuses-prime-minister-christopher-luxon-of-telling-lie-in-heated-moment.html
On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 20:16:30 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:Wow, no response - what a surprise! Apparently there was no demonstrably false >statement and therefore no lie - Swarbrick should be censured.
On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 19:08:00 +1300, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:
On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 16:19:44 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>wrote:
On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 21:40:19 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rimu Atkinson <rimuatkinson+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On 14/12/23 15:18, Tony wrote:That is irrelevant. This is not about who lies. All politicians lie. >>>>>>However saying so in parliament is a serious matter. And for very good >>>>>>reason.
Swarbrick makes up her own rules as she continues down the path of >>>>>>>>trying tohttps://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/swarbrick-not-backing-down-green-mp-refuses-to-apologise-over-luxon-demonstrable-lie-claim/ar-AA1lpZLD?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=58f58cb172c343668eae175bbc64f025&ei=16
damage our democracy - This should go to the Privileges Committee, she >>>>>>>>needs
to
mature.
She's not wrong, tho.
Luxon lies.
Now there's a phrase that slips off the tongue.
Exactly, Tony - it was right that Swarbrick drew out attention to a >>>>>statement that was demonstrably false.
What was the statement that was demonstrably false?
Bill.
From the url above:
I already know what is in the URL.
What is the statement that is "demonstrably false"?
Quote it verbatim.
Bill.
On Sat, 16 Dec 2023 19:17:45 -0000 (UTC), TonyOnce more and twice today - sarcasm removed. {Piss off until you can debate without abuse).
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:
On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 20:16:30 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:Wow, no response - what a surprise! Apparently there was no demonstrably >>false
On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 19:08:00 +1300, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:
On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 16:19:44 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>wrote:
On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 21:40:19 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rimu Atkinson <rimuatkinson+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On 14/12/23 15:18, Tony wrote:That is irrelevant. This is not about who lies. All politicians lie. >>>>>>>However saying so in parliament is a serious matter. And for very good >>>>>>>reason.
Swarbrick makes up her own rules as she continues down the path of >>>>>>>>>trying tohttps://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/swarbrick-not-backing-down-green-mp-refuses-to-apologise-over-luxon-demonstrable-lie-claim/ar-AA1lpZLD?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=58f58cb172c343668eae175bbc64f025&ei=16
damage our democracy - This should go to the Privileges Committee, >>>>>>>>>she
needs
to
mature.
She's not wrong, tho.
Luxon lies.
Now there's a phrase that slips off the tongue.
Exactly, Tony - it was right that Swarbrick drew out attention to a >>>>>>statement that was demonstrably false.
What was the statement that was demonstrably false?
Bill.
From the url above:
I already know what is in the URL.
What is the statement that is "demonstrably false"?
Quote it verbatim.
Bill.
statement and therefore no lie - Swarbrick should be censured.
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