• Government to rely on ""magic beans""

    From Rich80105@21:1/5 to All on Sun Dec 10 23:47:07 2023
    https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/09/new-zealands-environmental-credentials-on-the-line-as-coalition-takes-power

    Sad to see our reputation being wrecked by the need for a three way
    coalition - National appears to have given up even those few
    environmental policies that they held prior to election day . . .

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  • From BR@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 11 05:02:24 2023
    On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 23:47:07 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/09/new-zealands-environmental-credentials-on-the-line-as-coalition-takes-power

    Sad to see our reputation being wrecked by the need for a three way
    coalition - National appears to have given up even those few
    environmental policies that they held prior to election day . . .

    If it were up to me all climate change policy would be dustbin bound.

    Bill.

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  • From Tony@21:1/5 to Rich80105@hotmail.com on Sun Dec 10 20:21:25 2023
    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote: >https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/09/new-zealands-environmental-credentials-on-the-line-as-coalition-takes-power

    Sad to see our reputation being wrecked by the need for a three way
    coalition - National appears to have given up even those few
    environmental policies that they held prior to election day . . .
    No damage will be done in the long term - the facts are slowly becoming common knowledge. Short term damage is OK, in fact I look forward to it.

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  • From Crash@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 11 09:42:23 2023
    On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 23:47:07 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/09/new-zealands-environmental-credentials-on-the-line-as-coalition-takes-power

    Sad to see our reputation being wrecked by the need for a three way
    coalition - National appears to have given up even those few
    environmental policies that they held prior to election day . . .

    Rich, to cannibalise a quote for context:

    "They won, you lost, eat that".

    Our reputation on environmental issues has changed. Such is life. Our
    impact on the planet is negligible and only noticed by those that
    oppose it on principle.


    --
    Crash McBash

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  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 11 10:55:43 2023
    On Mon, 11 Dec 2023 09:42:23 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 23:47:07 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/09/new-zealands-environmental-credentials-on-the-line-as-coalition-takes-power

    Sad to see our reputation being wrecked by the need for a three way >>coalition - National appears to have given up even those few
    environmental policies that they held prior to election day . . .

    Rich, to cannibalise a quote for context:

    "They won, you lost, eat that".

    Our reputation on environmental issues has changed. Such is life. Our
    impact on the planet is negligible and only noticed by those that
    oppose it on principle.

    Whatever your views on the impact New Zealand may have on global
    climate, there is a cost to not meeting the international agreement
    and thereby the financial commitments we made when the National Party
    signed us up to the International Agreements. Whether other countries
    notice is one thing; spending money to other countries if we do not
    meet our commitments is something else again - we do have other issues
    we would prefer to spend money on. I do not know what that cost is
    however; if it is likely that it will need to be paid it will
    presumably appear as a budget item at some stage . . .

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  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 11 11:52:48 2023
    On Mon, 11 Dec 2023 11:21:13 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
    wrote:

    On Mon, 11 Dec 2023 10:55:43 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Mon, 11 Dec 2023 09:42:23 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>wrote:

    On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 23:47:07 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:
    https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/09/new-zealands-environmental-credentials-on-the-line-as-coalition-takes-power

    Sad to see our reputation being wrecked by the need for a three way >>>>coalition - National appears to have given up even those few >>>>environmental policies that they held prior to election day . . .

    Rich, to cannibalise a quote for context:

    "They won, you lost, eat that".

    Our reputation on environmental issues has changed. Such is life. Our >>>impact on the planet is negligible and only noticed by those that
    oppose it on principle.

    Whatever your views on the impact New Zealand may have on global
    climate, there is a cost to not meeting the international agreement
    and thereby the financial commitments we made when the National Party >>signed us up to the International Agreements. Whether other countries >>notice is one thing; spending money to other countries if we do not
    meet our commitments is something else again - we do have other issues
    we would prefer to spend money on. I do not know what that cost is
    however; if it is likely that it will need to be paid it will
    presumably appear as a budget item at some stage . . .


    Can you name any instances where a change of Government has actually
    cost us anything in respect of agreements made by a previous
    government and no longer honoured?

    No, but there may have been cases - but I suspect we have normally
    worked very hard to meet commitments under international treaties we
    have signed up to. I also do not know how much we may be up for - at
    some point any such payments will presumably need to be planned for as
    a budget item; I do not get the impression that costs would be small
    enough to ignore. Perhaps others reading nz.general may know more . .
    .

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  • From Crash@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 11 11:21:13 2023
    On Mon, 11 Dec 2023 10:55:43 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Mon, 11 Dec 2023 09:42:23 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 23:47:07 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:
    https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/09/new-zealands-environmental-credentials-on-the-line-as-coalition-takes-power

    Sad to see our reputation being wrecked by the need for a three way >>>coalition - National appears to have given up even those few >>>environmental policies that they held prior to election day . . .

    Rich, to cannibalise a quote for context:

    "They won, you lost, eat that".

    Our reputation on environmental issues has changed. Such is life. Our >>impact on the planet is negligible and only noticed by those that
    oppose it on principle.

    Whatever your views on the impact New Zealand may have on global
    climate, there is a cost to not meeting the international agreement
    and thereby the financial commitments we made when the National Party
    signed us up to the International Agreements. Whether other countries
    notice is one thing; spending money to other countries if we do not
    meet our commitments is something else again - we do have other issues
    we would prefer to spend money on. I do not know what that cost is
    however; if it is likely that it will need to be paid it will
    presumably appear as a budget item at some stage . . .


    Can you name any instances where a change of Government has actually
    cost us anything in respect of agreements made by a previous
    government and no longer honoured?


    --
    Crash McBash

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  • From Tony@21:1/5 to Rich80105@hotmail.com on Mon Dec 11 00:14:11 2023
    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Mon, 11 Dec 2023 11:21:13 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
    wrote:

    On Mon, 11 Dec 2023 10:55:43 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:

    On Mon, 11 Dec 2023 09:42:23 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>wrote:

    On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 23:47:07 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>wrote:
    https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/09/new-zealands-environmental-credentials-on-the-line-as-coalition-takes-power

    Sad to see our reputation being wrecked by the need for a three way >>>>>coalition - National appears to have given up even those few >>>>>environmental policies that they held prior to election day . . .

    Rich, to cannibalise a quote for context:

    "They won, you lost, eat that".

    Our reputation on environmental issues has changed. Such is life. Our >>>>impact on the planet is negligible and only noticed by those that >>>>oppose it on principle.

    Whatever your views on the impact New Zealand may have on global
    climate, there is a cost to not meeting the international agreement
    and thereby the financial commitments we made when the National Party >>>signed us up to the International Agreements. Whether other countries >>>notice is one thing; spending money to other countries if we do not
    meet our commitments is something else again - we do have other issues
    we would prefer to spend money on. I do not know what that cost is >>>however; if it is likely that it will need to be paid it will
    presumably appear as a budget item at some stage . . .


    Can you name any instances where a change of Government has actually
    cost us anything in respect of agreements made by a previous
    government and no longer honoured?

    No, but there may have been cases - but I suspect we have normally
    worked very hard to meet commitments under international treaties we
    have signed up to. I also do not know how much we may be up for - at
    some point any such payments will presumably need to be planned for as
    a budget item; I do not get the impression that costs would be small
    enough to ignore. Perhaps others reading nz.general may know more . .
    .
    Once more yoiu ignore the fact that the agreement we signed was not binding, despite being told several times, you should provide some verifiable figures or go away.

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  • From BR@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 11 17:48:26 2023
    On Mon, 11 Dec 2023 10:55:43 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Mon, 11 Dec 2023 09:42:23 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 23:47:07 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:
    https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/09/new-zealands-environmental-credentials-on-the-line-as-coalition-takes-power

    Sad to see our reputation being wrecked by the need for a three way >>>coalition - National appears to have given up even those few >>>environmental policies that they held prior to election day . . .

    Rich, to cannibalise a quote for context:

    "They won, you lost, eat that".

    Our reputation on environmental issues has changed. Such is life. Our >>impact on the planet is negligible and only noticed by those that
    oppose it on principle.

    Whatever your views on the impact New Zealand may have on global
    climate, there is a cost to not meeting the international agreement
    and thereby the financial commitments we made when the National Party
    signed us up to the International Agreements.

    OK, so you think we should continue to appease the climate doomsayers,
    not NZ poses any danger to the climate, but because NZ must honour an
    agreement that National signed up to.

    Have I got that right?

    Bill.

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  • From Crash@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 11 19:52:05 2023
    On Mon, 11 Dec 2023 11:52:48 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Mon, 11 Dec 2023 11:21:13 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
    wrote:

    On Mon, 11 Dec 2023 10:55:43 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:

    On Mon, 11 Dec 2023 09:42:23 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>wrote:

    On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 23:47:07 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>wrote:
    https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/09/new-zealands-environmental-credentials-on-the-line-as-coalition-takes-power

    Sad to see our reputation being wrecked by the need for a three way >>>>>coalition - National appears to have given up even those few >>>>>environmental policies that they held prior to election day . . .

    Rich, to cannibalise a quote for context:

    "They won, you lost, eat that".

    Our reputation on environmental issues has changed. Such is life. Our >>>>impact on the planet is negligible and only noticed by those that >>>>oppose it on principle.

    Whatever your views on the impact New Zealand may have on global
    climate, there is a cost to not meeting the international agreement
    and thereby the financial commitments we made when the National Party >>>signed us up to the International Agreements. Whether other countries >>>notice is one thing; spending money to other countries if we do not
    meet our commitments is something else again - we do have other issues
    we would prefer to spend money on. I do not know what that cost is >>>however; if it is likely that it will need to be paid it will
    presumably appear as a budget item at some stage . . .


    Can you name any instances where a change of Government has actually
    cost us anything in respect of agreements made by a previous
    government and no longer honoured?

    No, but there may have been cases - but I suspect we have normally
    worked very hard to meet commitments under international treaties we
    have signed up to.

    Then if you assert that reneging on previously-negotiated
    international agreements will cost us you need to provide some
    credible evidence. Every new government in particular that we elect
    is free to repudiate international agreements made by previous
    governments. With Climate Change this may happen - but many other
    countries far bigger than us are also guilty of this. There is no international venue that can enforce the consequence of repudiating
    climate change commitments.
    I also do not know how much we may be up for - at
    some point any such payments will presumably need to be planned for as
    a budget item; I do not get the impression that costs would be small
    enough to ignore. Perhaps others reading nz.general may know more . .
    .


    --
    Crash McBash

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