https://robertbryce.substack.com/p/ford-lost-62016-for-every-ev-it-sold
I wish that EVs made more sense but sadly, other than perhaps hybrids, they don't.
On Friday, 10 November 2023 at 09:05:12 UTC+13, Tony wrote:wearing all the costs but has only just started to earn the revenue. None of this is that surprising really.
https://robertbryce.substack.com/p/ford-lost-62016-for-every-ev-it-sold
I wish that EVs made more sense but sadly, other than perhaps hybrids, they >> don't.
It takes years and costs a lot to design a brand new model, build it, test it, build a production line, test that, then bring the model to market. It takes years to cover that cost before it starts to be profitable - if it ever does. The model is
https://robertbryce.substack.com/p/ford-lost-62016-for-every-ev-it-sold
I wish that EVs made more sense but sadly, other than perhaps hybrids, they don't.
On 2023-11-09, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
https://robertbryce.substack.com/p/ford-lost-62016-for-every-ev-it-sold
I wish that EVs made more sense but sadly, other than perhaps hybrids, they >> don't.
Good article.
There is alot of resetting going on or about to happen on the EV scene.
At present there is no where the number of fast chargers which are needed
for road trips. Or for people who can not charge at home.
The grid can not supply all the fast charging stations even if there is >enough, so battery packs are required to keep up with the fast charging.
Fast chargers are expensive, top up going to be expensive
The real on going killer, as pointed out in the article, is politics. So >which every car toy have you are on the other side to the people who have a >different powered car.
This ideological initiation of the EV being the silver bullet and you must >have it right now does not all for the early adaptors to "sell" the product >to the gate swingers and then the masses.
Al while this is going one the infrastructure can develop under the power of >market forces.
Think a back to 1900. No many cars and not a great deal of petrol stations. >But as the model T's rolled off the production line the petrol stations grew >in number to satisfy the growing number of cars.
The EV push to have all EV "overnight" while doing nothing about the >refuelling side is crazy. Still that come about from idealoglical thinking.
As things stand. For a few of the cars on the roads EV need to be able to be >charged at home over night easily, with daily trips which can be chaqrged >over night. Say 100 to 100km within the city.
High, no not obtainable, insurance along with the risk of setting the house >on fire is not taken into account.
All this pushing and shoving the silver bullet aspect of the EV is in now
way helpful to moving things forward.
On 10 Nov 2023 22:41:12 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
On 2023-11-09, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
https://robertbryce.substack.com/p/ford-lost-62016-for-every-ev-it-sold
I wish that EVs made more sense but sadly, other than perhaps hybrids, they >>> don't.
Good article.
There is alot of resetting going on or about to happen on the EV scene.
At present there is no where the number of fast chargers which are needed >>for road trips. Or for people who can not charge at home.
The grid can not supply all the fast charging stations even if there is >>enough, so battery packs are required to keep up with the fast charging.
Fast chargers are expensive, top up going to be expensive
The real on going killer, as pointed out in the article, is politics. So >>which every car toy have you are on the other side to the people who have a >>different powered car.
This ideological initiation of the EV being the silver bullet and you must >>have it right now does not all for the early adaptors to "sell" the product >>to the gate swingers and then the masses.
Al while this is going one the infrastructure can develop under the power of >>market forces.
Think a back to 1900. No many cars and not a great deal of petrol stations. >>But as the model T's rolled off the production line the petrol stations grew >>in number to satisfy the growing number of cars.
The EV push to have all EV "overnight" while doing nothing about the >>refuelling side is crazy. Still that come about from idealoglical thinking. >>
As things stand. For a few of the cars on the roads EV need to be able to be >>charged at home over night easily, with daily trips which can be chaqrged >>over night. Say 100 to 100km within the city.
High, no not obtainable, insurance along with the risk of setting the house >>on fire is not taken into account.
All this pushing and shoving the silver bullet aspect of the EV is in now >>way helpful to moving things forward.
All this points to is that EVs are a good second car for around-town
use. Recharging away from home is in many cases impossible (not
enough fast-chargers as mentioned) but even with fast-chargers it is >extremely slow (15-30 minutes). So most of us will also need an ICE
vehicle.
On Sat, 11 Nov 2023 12:50:33 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:
On 10 Nov 2023 22:41:12 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
On 2023-11-09, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
https://robertbryce.substack.com/p/ford-lost-62016-for-every-ev-it-sold >>>> I wish that EVs made more sense but sadly, other than perhaps hybrids, they
don't.
Good article.
There is alot of resetting going on or about to happen on the EV scene.
At present there is no where the number of fast chargers which are needed >>>for road trips. Or for people who can not charge at home.
The grid can not supply all the fast charging stations even if there is >>>enough, so battery packs are required to keep up with the fast charging.
Fast chargers are expensive, top up going to be expensive
The real on going killer, as pointed out in the article, is politics. So >>>which every car toy have you are on the other side to the people who have a >>>different powered car.
This ideological initiation of the EV being the silver bullet and you must >>>have it right now does not all for the early adaptors to "sell" the product >>>to the gate swingers and then the masses.
Al while this is going one the infrastructure can develop under the power of >>>market forces.
Think a back to 1900. No many cars and not a great deal of petrol stations. >>>But as the model T's rolled off the production line the petrol stations grew >>>in number to satisfy the growing number of cars.
The EV push to have all EV "overnight" while doing nothing about the >>>refuelling side is crazy. Still that come about from idealoglical thinking. >>>
As things stand. For a few of the cars on the roads EV need to be able to be >>>charged at home over night easily, with daily trips which can be chaqrged >>>over night. Say 100 to 100km within the city.
High, no not obtainable, insurance along with the risk of setting the house >>>on fire is not taken into account.
All this pushing and shoving the silver bullet aspect of the EV is in now >>>way helpful to moving things forward.
All this points to is that EVs are a good second car for around-town
use. Recharging away from home is in many cases impossible (not
enough fast-chargers as mentioned) but even with fast-chargers it is >>extremely slow (15-30 minutes). So most of us will also need an ICE >>vehicle.
I have a relative who has an old Nissan Leaf - its range is around
200km, and that is far enough for well over 90% of their use. I also
know two people with new Teslas - both have made Auckland/ Wellington
trips and recharged over lunch - their range is sufficient to get more
than half-way. Many more people these days cannot afford a vehicle
at all, which is why buses are getting more popular - they do not care >whether the bus they travel on is an EV or ICE.
Many New Zealand houses were built on hills, with car parking not
always available or often on the roadside - it can cost $1500 to $2000
to get a charging point from a house to a park - hybrids are however
still effective. I agree that the encouragement has been way helpful
in giving a wider choice to New Zealanders and enabled NZ to move
forward - Winston at least will be well aware of the cost of not
meeting targets in the international agreement a previous National-led >government signed us up to.
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:If that is the case - and it may well be as it is a few years since we discussed range - that does not matter to them - I suspect they seldom
On Sat, 11 Nov 2023 12:50:33 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>wrote:It can't be too old if it's still doing 200Km on a charge. Most of
On 10 Nov 2023 22:41:12 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
On 2023-11-09, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
https://robertbryce.substack.com/p/ford-lost-62016-for-every-ev-it-sold >>>>> I wish that EVs made more sense but sadly, other than perhaps hybrids, they
don't.
Good article.
There is alot of resetting going on or about to happen on the EV scene. >>>> At present there is no where the number of fast chargers which are needed >>>>for road trips. Or for people who can not charge at home.
The grid can not supply all the fast charging stations even if there is >>>>enough, so battery packs are required to keep up with the fast charging. >>>>
Fast chargers are expensive, top up going to be expensive
The real on going killer, as pointed out in the article, is politics. So >>>>which every car toy have you are on the other side to the people who have a >>>>different powered car.
This ideological initiation of the EV being the silver bullet and you must >>>>have it right now does not all for the early adaptors to "sell" the product >>>>to the gate swingers and then the masses.
Al while this is going one the infrastructure can develop under the power of
market forces.
Think a back to 1900. No many cars and not a great deal of petrol stations. >>>>But as the model T's rolled off the production line the petrol stations grew
in number to satisfy the growing number of cars.
The EV push to have all EV "overnight" while doing nothing about the >>>>refuelling side is crazy. Still that come about from idealoglical thinking. >>>>
As things stand. For a few of the cars on the roads EV need to be able to be
charged at home over night easily, with daily trips which can be chaqrged >>>>over night. Say 100 to 100km within the city.
High, no not obtainable, insurance along with the risk of setting the house >>>>on fire is not taken into account.
All this pushing and shoving the silver bullet aspect of the EV is in now >>>>way helpful to moving things forward.
All this points to is that EVs are a good second car for around-town
use. Recharging away from home is in many cases impossible (not
enough fast-chargers as mentioned) but even with fast-chargers it is >>>extremely slow (15-30 minutes). So most of us will also need an ICE >>>vehicle.
I have a relative who has an old Nissan Leaf - its range is around
200km, and that is far enough for well over 90% of their use. I also
know two people with new Teslas - both have made Auckland/ Wellington
trips and recharged over lunch - their range is sufficient to get more
than half-way. Many more people these days cannot afford a vehicle
at all, which is why buses are getting more popular - they do not care >>whether the bus they travel on is an EV or ICE.
Many New Zealand houses were built on hills, with car parking not
always available or often on the roadside - it can cost $1500 to $2000
to get a charging point from a house to a park - hybrids are however
still effective. I agree that the encouragement has been way helpful
in giving a wider choice to New Zealanders and enabled NZ to move
forward - Winston at least will be well aware of the cost of not
meeting targets in the international agreement a previous National-led >>government signed us up to.
the old ones are lucky these days to get 100KM .
On Sun, 12 Nov 2023 13:26:33 +1300, Mutley <mutley2000@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:If that is the case - and it may well be as it is a few years since we discussed range - that does not matter to them - I suspect they seldom
On Sat, 11 Nov 2023 12:50:33 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>wrote:It can't be too old if it's still doing 200Km on a charge. Most of
On 10 Nov 2023 22:41:12 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
On 2023-11-09, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
https://robertbryce.substack.com/p/ford-lost-62016-for-every-ev-it-sold >>>>>> I wish that EVs made more sense but sadly, other than perhaps hybrids, they
don't.
Good article.
There is alot of resetting going on or about to happen on the EV scene. >>>>> At present there is no where the number of fast chargers which are needed >>>>>for road trips. Or for people who can not charge at home.
The grid can not supply all the fast charging stations even if there is >>>>>enough, so battery packs are required to keep up with the fast charging. >>>>>
Fast chargers are expensive, top up going to be expensive
The real on going killer, as pointed out in the article, is politics. So >>>>>which every car toy have you are on the other side to the people who have a
different powered car.
This ideological initiation of the EV being the silver bullet and you must >>>>>have it right now does not all for the early adaptors to "sell" the product
to the gate swingers and then the masses.
Al while this is going one the infrastructure can develop under the power of
market forces.
Think a back to 1900. No many cars and not a great deal of petrol stations.
But as the model T's rolled off the production line the petrol stations grew
in number to satisfy the growing number of cars.
The EV push to have all EV "overnight" while doing nothing about the >>>>>refuelling side is crazy. Still that come about from idealoglical thinking.
As things stand. For a few of the cars on the roads EV need to be able to be
charged at home over night easily, with daily trips which can be chaqrged >>>>>over night. Say 100 to 100km within the city.
High, no not obtainable, insurance along with the risk of setting the house
on fire is not taken into account.
All this pushing and shoving the silver bullet aspect of the EV is in now >>>>>way helpful to moving things forward.
All this points to is that EVs are a good second car for around-town >>>>use. Recharging away from home is in many cases impossible (not >>>>enough fast-chargers as mentioned) but even with fast-chargers it is >>>>extremely slow (15-30 minutes). So most of us will also need an ICE >>>>vehicle.
I have a relative who has an old Nissan Leaf - its range is around
200km, and that is far enough for well over 90% of their use. I also
know two people with new Teslas - both have made Auckland/ Wellington >>>trips and recharged over lunch - their range is sufficient to get more >>>than half-way. Many more people these days cannot afford a vehicle
at all, which is why buses are getting more popular - they do not care >>>whether the bus they travel on is an EV or ICE.
Many New Zealand houses were built on hills, with car parking not
always available or often on the roadside - it can cost $1500 to $2000
to get a charging point from a house to a park - hybrids are however >>>still effective. I agree that the encouragement has been way helpful
in giving a wider choice to New Zealanders and enabled NZ to move
forward - Winston at least will be well aware of the cost of not
meeting targets in the international agreement a previous National-led >>>government signed us up to.
the old ones are lucky these days to get 100KM .
travel more than 50 km in any given day. Quite a few people are in
that situation.
On 2023-11-12, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, 12 Nov 2023 13:26:33 +1300, Mutley <mutley2000@hotmail.com>True, but what happens when they wish to go on holiday? A rental might do it >I guess.
wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:If that is the case - and it may well be as it is a few years since we
On Sat, 11 Nov 2023 12:50:33 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>wrote:It can't be too old if it's still doing 200Km on a charge. Most of
On 10 Nov 2023 22:41:12 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
On 2023-11-09, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
https://robertbryce.substack.com/p/ford-lost-62016-for-every-ev-it-sold >>>>>>> I wish that EVs made more sense but sadly, other than perhaps hybrids, they
don't.
Good article.
There is alot of resetting going on or about to happen on the EV scene. >>>>>> At present there is no where the number of fast chargers which are needed
for road trips. Or for people who can not charge at home.
The grid can not supply all the fast charging stations even if there is >>>>>>enough, so battery packs are required to keep up with the fast charging. >>>>>>
Fast chargers are expensive, top up going to be expensive
The real on going killer, as pointed out in the article, is politics. So >>>>>>which every car toy have you are on the other side to the people who have a
different powered car.
This ideological initiation of the EV being the silver bullet and you must
have it right now does not all for the early adaptors to "sell" the product
to the gate swingers and then the masses.
Al while this is going one the infrastructure can develop under the power of
market forces.
Think a back to 1900. No many cars and not a great deal of petrol stations.
But as the model T's rolled off the production line the petrol stations grew
in number to satisfy the growing number of cars.
The EV push to have all EV "overnight" while doing nothing about the >>>>>>refuelling side is crazy. Still that come about from idealoglical thinking.
As things stand. For a few of the cars on the roads EV need to be able to be
charged at home over night easily, with daily trips which can be chaqrged >>>>>>over night. Say 100 to 100km within the city.
High, no not obtainable, insurance along with the risk of setting the house
on fire is not taken into account.
All this pushing and shoving the silver bullet aspect of the EV is in now >>>>>>way helpful to moving things forward.
All this points to is that EVs are a good second car for around-town >>>>>use. Recharging away from home is in many cases impossible (not >>>>>enough fast-chargers as mentioned) but even with fast-chargers it is >>>>>extremely slow (15-30 minutes). So most of us will also need an ICE >>>>>vehicle.
I have a relative who has an old Nissan Leaf - its range is around >>>>200km, and that is far enough for well over 90% of their use. I also >>>>know two people with new Teslas - both have made Auckland/ Wellington >>>>trips and recharged over lunch - their range is sufficient to get more >>>>than half-way. Many more people these days cannot afford a vehicle
at all, which is why buses are getting more popular - they do not care >>>>whether the bus they travel on is an EV or ICE.
Many New Zealand houses were built on hills, with car parking not >>>>always available or often on the roadside - it can cost $1500 to $2000 >>>>to get a charging point from a house to a park - hybrids are however >>>>still effective. I agree that the encouragement has been way helpful
in giving a wider choice to New Zealanders and enabled NZ to move >>>>forward - Winston at least will be well aware of the cost of not >>>>meeting targets in the international agreement a previous National-led >>>>government signed us up to.
the old ones are lucky these days to get 100KM .
discussed range - that does not matter to them - I suspect they seldom
travel more than 50 km in any given day. Quite a few people are in
that situation.
Busses are getting more important in
cities as well as cars become too expensive for many families.
On 2023-11-13, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:
On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 15:57:22 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Busses are getting more important in
cities as well as cars become too expensive for many families.
They can't be that important if you look at how many of them are
empty.
Bill.
And cars are full?
On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 15:57:22 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Busses are getting more important in
cities as well as cars become too expensive for many families.
They can't be that important if you look at how many of them are
empty.
Bill.
On 2023-11-12, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, 12 Nov 2023 13:26:33 +1300, Mutley <mutley2000@hotmail.com>True, but what happens when they wish to go on holiday? A rental might do it >I guess.
wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:If that is the case - and it may well be as it is a few years since we
On Sat, 11 Nov 2023 12:50:33 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>wrote:It can't be too old if it's still doing 200Km on a charge. Most of
On 10 Nov 2023 22:41:12 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
On 2023-11-09, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
https://robertbryce.substack.com/p/ford-lost-62016-for-every-ev-it-sold >>>>>>> I wish that EVs made more sense but sadly, other than perhaps hybrids, they
don't.
Good article.
There is alot of resetting going on or about to happen on the EV scene. >>>>>> At present there is no where the number of fast chargers which are needed
for road trips. Or for people who can not charge at home.
The grid can not supply all the fast charging stations even if there is >>>>>>enough, so battery packs are required to keep up with the fast charging. >>>>>>
Fast chargers are expensive, top up going to be expensive
The real on going killer, as pointed out in the article, is politics. So >>>>>>which every car toy have you are on the other side to the people who have a
different powered car.
This ideological initiation of the EV being the silver bullet and you must
have it right now does not all for the early adaptors to "sell" the product
to the gate swingers and then the masses.
Al while this is going one the infrastructure can develop under the power of
market forces.
Think a back to 1900. No many cars and not a great deal of petrol stations.
But as the model T's rolled off the production line the petrol stations grew
in number to satisfy the growing number of cars.
The EV push to have all EV "overnight" while doing nothing about the >>>>>>refuelling side is crazy. Still that come about from idealoglical thinking.
As things stand. For a few of the cars on the roads EV need to be able to be
charged at home over night easily, with daily trips which can be chaqrged >>>>>>over night. Say 100 to 100km within the city.
High, no not obtainable, insurance along with the risk of setting the house
on fire is not taken into account.
All this pushing and shoving the silver bullet aspect of the EV is in now >>>>>>way helpful to moving things forward.
All this points to is that EVs are a good second car for around-town >>>>>use. Recharging away from home is in many cases impossible (not >>>>>enough fast-chargers as mentioned) but even with fast-chargers it is >>>>>extremely slow (15-30 minutes). So most of us will also need an ICE >>>>>vehicle.
I have a relative who has an old Nissan Leaf - its range is around >>>>200km, and that is far enough for well over 90% of their use. I also >>>>know two people with new Teslas - both have made Auckland/ Wellington >>>>trips and recharged over lunch - their range is sufficient to get more >>>>than half-way. Many more people these days cannot afford a vehicle
at all, which is why buses are getting more popular - they do not care >>>>whether the bus they travel on is an EV or ICE.
Many New Zealand houses were built on hills, with car parking not >>>>always available or often on the roadside - it can cost $1500 to $2000 >>>>to get a charging point from a house to a park - hybrids are however >>>>still effective. I agree that the encouragement has been way helpful
in giving a wider choice to New Zealanders and enabled NZ to move >>>>forward - Winston at least will be well aware of the cost of not >>>>meeting targets in the international agreement a previous National-led >>>>government signed us up to.
the old ones are lucky these days to get 100KM .
discussed range - that does not matter to them - I suspect they seldom
travel more than 50 km in any given day. Quite a few people are in
that situation.
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