It's fallen right off onto the muddy ground.dumbing down of education in New Zealand's history.
In last night's debate all Hipkins did was tell lies about the economy and shout over the top of Luxon. Ably assisted by that harridan Mutch-Mackay.
We got to see the real Chris Hipkins and it is not pretty. It is consistent with the Hipkins who attacked and lied about Charlotte Bellis. The one who kept New Zealanders locked out of their own country. The one who has presided over the greatest
It's fallen right off onto the muddy ground.dumbing down of education in New Zealand's history.
In last night's debate all Hipkins did was tell lies about the economy and shout over the top of Luxon. Ably assisted by that harridan Mutch-Mackay.
We got to see the real Chris Hipkins and it is not pretty. It is consistent with the Hipkins who attacked and lied about Charlotte Bellis. The one who kept New Zealanders locked out of their own country. The one who has presided over the greatest
Ably assisted by that harridan Mutch-Mackay.
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 12:44:50 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>dumbing down of education in New Zealand's history.
wrote:
It's fallen right off onto the muddy ground.
In last night's debate all Hipkins did was tell lies about the economy and shout over the top of Luxon. Ably assisted by that harridan Mutch-Mackay.
We got to see the real Chris Hipkins and it is not pretty. It is consistent with the Hipkins who attacked and lied about Charlotte Bellis. The one who kept New Zealanders locked out of their own country. The one who has presided over the greatest
To be fair, when Hipkins took over from Ardern he knew he had
inherited a polluted chalice. His role was therefore do whatever he
could to rescue Labour's fortunes. He started with a 'policy bonfire'
that stopped future initiatives from going any further but he could
not reverse legislation already passed (such as the Water reforms).
He has done the best he can to defend the indefensible. The worry is
that so many still support Labour, and NZF has (again) risen from the
dead. Considering his political inexperience, Luxon has done fairly
well.
On Friday, 13 October 2023 at 11:05:18 UTC+13, Crash wrote:dumbing down of education in New Zealand's history.
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 12:44:50 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>
wrote:
It's fallen right off onto the muddy ground.
In last night's debate all Hipkins did was tell lies about the economy and shout over the top of Luxon. Ably assisted by that harridan Mutch-Mackay.
We got to see the real Chris Hipkins and it is not pretty. It is consistent with the Hipkins who attacked and lied about Charlotte Bellis. The one who kept New Zealanders locked out of their own country. The one who has presided over the greatest
disaster but Chippie was stoking coal in the engine room.To be fair, when Hipkins took over from Ardern he knew he had
inherited a polluted chalice. His role was therefore do whatever he
I think you are being far too kind. He didn't just inherit it - he was directly responsible for much of the polluting himself. He was the MIQ minister. He was education minister. He was police minister. Ardern was the smiling hand-waving face of the
could to rescue Labour's fortunes. He started with a 'policy bonfire'
that stopped future initiatives from going any further but he could
not reverse legislation already passed (such as the Water reforms).
He has done the best he can to defend the indefensible. The worry is
that so many still support Labour, and NZF has (again) risen from the
dead. Considering his political inexperience, Luxon has done fairly
well.
--
Crash McBash
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 12:44:50 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>dumbing down of education in New Zealand's history.
wrote:
It's fallen right off onto the muddy ground.
In last night's debate all Hipkins did was tell lies about the economy and shout over the top of Luxon. Ably assisted by that harridan Mutch-Mackay.
We got to see the real Chris Hipkins and it is not pretty. It is consistent with the Hipkins who attacked and lied about Charlotte Bellis. The one who kept New Zealanders locked out of their own country. The one who has presided over the greatest
To be fair, when Hipkins took over from Ardern he knew he had
inherited a polluted chalice. His role was therefore do whatever he
could to rescue Labour's fortunes. He started with a 'policy bonfire'
that stopped future initiatives from going any further but he could
not reverse legislation already passed (such as the Water reforms).
He has done the best he can to defend the indefensible. The worry is
that so many still support Labour, and NZF has (again) risen from the
dead. Considering his political inexperience, Luxon has done fairly
well.
--
Crash McBash
On Friday, 13 October 2023 at 11:05:18 UTC+13, Crash wrote:dumbing down of education in New Zealand's history.
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 12:44:50 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>
wrote:
It's fallen right off onto the muddy ground.
In last night's debate all Hipkins did was tell lies about the economy and shout over the top of Luxon. Ably assisted by that harridan Mutch-Mackay.
We got to see the real Chris Hipkins and it is not pretty. It is consistent with the Hipkins who attacked and lied about Charlotte Bellis. The one who kept New Zealanders locked out of their own country. The one who has presided over the greatest
disaster but Chippie was stoking coal in the engine room.To be fair, when Hipkins took over from Ardern he knew he had
inherited a polluted chalice. His role was therefore do whatever he
I think you are being far too kind. He didn't just inherit it - he was directly responsible for much of the polluting himself. He was the MIQ minister. He was education minister. He was police minister. Ardern was the smiling hand-waving face of the
could to rescue Labour's fortunes. He started with a 'policy bonfire'
that stopped future initiatives from going any further but he could
not reverse legislation already passed (such as the Water reforms).
He has done the best he can to defend the indefensible. The worry is
that so many still support Labour, and NZF has (again) risen from the
dead. Considering his political inexperience, Luxon has done fairly
well.
--
Crash McBash
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 16:30:15 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>dumbing down of education in New Zealand's history.
wrote:
On Friday, 13 October 2023 at 11:05:18 UTC+13, Crash wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 12:44:50 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>
wrote:
It's fallen right off onto the muddy ground.
In last night's debate all Hipkins did was tell lies about the economy and shout over the top of Luxon. Ably assisted by that harridan Mutch-Mackay.
We got to see the real Chris Hipkins and it is not pretty. It is consistent with the Hipkins who attacked and lied about Charlotte Bellis. The one who kept New Zealanders locked out of their own country. The one who has presided over the greatest
disaster but Chippie was stoking coal in the engine room.To be fair, when Hipkins took over from Ardern he knew he had
inherited a polluted chalice. His role was therefore do whatever he
I think you are being far too kind. He didn't just inherit it - he was directly responsible for much of the polluting himself. He was the MIQ minister. He was education minister. He was police minister. Ardern was the smiling hand-waving face of the
As a minister you don't get to choose what you have to do - you either accept what you have to do or resign. Hipkins probably got to
participate in policy debates but that is far from certain. Resigning
is an extremely career-limiting move so comes with its own baggage, regardless of which party is involved.
--could to rescue Labour's fortunes. He started with a 'policy bonfire'
that stopped future initiatives from going any further but he could
not reverse legislation already passed (such as the Water reforms).
He has done the best he can to defend the indefensible. The worry is
that so many still support Labour, and NZF has (again) risen from the
dead. Considering his political inexperience, Luxon has done fairly
well.
--
Crash McBash
Crash McBash
On Friday, 13 October 2023 at 12:48:58 UTC+13, Crash wrote:dumbing down of education in New Zealand's history.
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 16:30:15 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Friday, 13 October 2023 at 11:05:18 UTC+13, Crash wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 12:44:50 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>
wrote:
It's fallen right off onto the muddy ground.
In last night's debate all Hipkins did was tell lies about the economy and shout over the top of Luxon. Ably assisted by that harridan Mutch-Mackay.
We got to see the real Chris Hipkins and it is not pretty. It is consistent with the Hipkins who attacked and lied about Charlotte Bellis. The one who kept New Zealanders locked out of their own country. The one who has presided over the greatest
disaster but Chippie was stoking coal in the engine room.To be fair, when Hipkins took over from Ardern he knew he had
inherited a polluted chalice. His role was therefore do whatever he
I think you are being far too kind. He didn't just inherit it - he was directly responsible for much of the polluting himself. He was the MIQ minister. He was education minister. He was police minister. Ardern was the smiling hand-waving face of the
As a minister you don't get to choose what you have to do - you either
accept what you have to do or resign. Hipkins probably got to
That is completely incorrect. The minister formulates and dictates the policy and ensures it is implemented by the department. That is his job. Ardern certainly wasn't doing this - she has little detail capability.
participate in policy debates but that is far from certain. Resigning
is an extremely career-limiting move so comes with its own baggage,
regardless of which party is involved.
--could to rescue Labour's fortunes. He started with a 'policy bonfire'
that stopped future initiatives from going any further but he could
not reverse legislation already passed (such as the Water reforms).
He has done the best he can to defend the indefensible. The worry is
that so many still support Labour, and NZF has (again) risen from the
dead. Considering his political inexperience, Luxon has done fairly
well.
--
Crash McBash
Crash McBash
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 16:59:28 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>dumbing down of education in New Zealand's history.
wrote:
On Friday, 13 October 2023 at 12:48:58 UTC+13, Crash wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 16:30:15 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Friday, 13 October 2023 at 11:05:18 UTC+13, Crash wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 12:44:50 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>
wrote:
It's fallen right off onto the muddy ground.
In last night's debate all Hipkins did was tell lies about the economy and shout over the top of Luxon. Ably assisted by that harridan Mutch-Mackay.
We got to see the real Chris Hipkins and it is not pretty. It is consistent with the Hipkins who attacked and lied about Charlotte Bellis. The one who kept New Zealanders locked out of their own country. The one who has presided over the greatest
disaster but Chippie was stoking coal in the engine room.To be fair, when Hipkins took over from Ardern he knew he had
inherited a polluted chalice. His role was therefore do whatever he
I think you are being far too kind. He didn't just inherit it - he was directly responsible for much of the polluting himself. He was the MIQ minister. He was education minister. He was police minister. Ardern was the smiling hand-waving face of the
I believe you are wrong - your statement should read "The CabinetAs a minister you don't get to choose what you have to do - you either
accept what you have to do or resign. Hipkins probably got to
That is completely incorrect. The minister formulates and dictates the policy and ensures it is implemented by the department. That is his job. Ardern certainly wasn't doing this - she has little detail capability.
formulates and collectively dictates policy and the minister ensures
it is implemented by the department". This is my reading of clause
2.21: >https://www.dpmc.govt.nz/our-business-units/cabinet-office/supporting-work-cabinet/cabinet-manual/2-ministers-crown-3
I acknowledge though that I am no expert on this.
participate in policy debates but that is far from certain. Resigning
is an extremely career-limiting move so comes with its own baggage,
regardless of which party is involved.
--could to rescue Labour's fortunes. He started with a 'policy bonfire' >>> >> that stopped future initiatives from going any further but he could
not reverse legislation already passed (such as the Water reforms).
He has done the best he can to defend the indefensible. The worry is
that so many still support Labour, and NZF has (again) risen from the >>> >> dead. Considering his political inexperience, Luxon has done fairly
well.
--
Crash McBash
Crash McBash
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 12:44:50 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>dumbing down of education in New Zealand's history.
wrote:
It's fallen right off onto the muddy ground.
In last night's debate all Hipkins did was tell lies about the economy and shout over the top of Luxon. Ably assisted by that harridan Mutch-Mackay.
We got to see the real Chris Hipkins and it is not pretty. It is consistent with the Hipkins who attacked and lied about Charlotte Bellis. The one who kept New Zealanders locked out of their own country. The one who has presided over the greatest
To be fair, when Hipkins took over from Ardern he knew he had
inherited a polluted chalice. His role was therefore do whatever he
could to rescue Labour's fortunes. He started with a 'policy bonfire'
that stopped future initiatives from going any further but he could
not reverse legislation already passed (such as the Water reforms).
He has done the best he can to defend the indefensible. The worry is
that so many still support Labour, and NZF has (again) risen from the
dead. Considering his political inexperience, Luxon has done fairly
well.
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 16:59:28 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>dumbing down of education in New Zealand's history.
wrote:
On Friday, 13 October 2023 at 12:48:58 UTC+13, Crash wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 16:30:15 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Friday, 13 October 2023 at 11:05:18 UTC+13, Crash wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 12:44:50 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>
wrote:
It's fallen right off onto the muddy ground.
In last night's debate all Hipkins did was tell lies about the economy and shout over the top of Luxon. Ably assisted by that harridan Mutch-Mackay.
We got to see the real Chris Hipkins and it is not pretty. It is consistent with the Hipkins who attacked and lied about Charlotte Bellis. The one who kept New Zealanders locked out of their own country. The one who has presided over the greatest
disaster but Chippie was stoking coal in the engine room.To be fair, when Hipkins took over from Ardern he knew he had
inherited a polluted chalice. His role was therefore do whatever he
I think you are being far too kind. He didn't just inherit it - he was directly responsible for much of the polluting himself. He was the MIQ minister. He was education minister. He was police minister. Ardern was the smiling hand-waving face of the
I believe you are wrong - your statement should read "The CabinetAs a minister you don't get to choose what you have to do - you either
accept what you have to do or resign. Hipkins probably got to
That is completely incorrect. The minister formulates and dictates the policy and ensures it is implemented by the department. That is his job. Ardern certainly wasn't doing this - she has little detail capability.
formulates and collectively dictates policy and the minister ensures
it is implemented by the department". This is my reading of clause
2.21: https://www.dpmc.govt.nz/our-business-units/cabinet-office/supporting-work-cabinet/cabinet-manual/2-ministers-crown-3
I acknowledge though that I am no expert on this.
participate in policy debates but that is far from certain. Resigning
is an extremely career-limiting move so comes with its own baggage,
regardless of which party is involved.
--could to rescue Labour's fortunes. He started with a 'policy bonfire' >>> >> that stopped future initiatives from going any further but he could
not reverse legislation already passed (such as the Water reforms).
He has done the best he can to defend the indefensible. The worry is
that so many still support Labour, and NZF has (again) risen from the >>> >> dead. Considering his political inexperience, Luxon has done fairly
well.
--
Crash McBash
Crash McBash
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 16:30:15 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>Nonsense - prove it.
wrote:
On Friday, 13 October 2023 at 11:05:18 UTC+13, Crash wrote:And did well in all those roles - certainly Luxon has never suggested >otherwise; he knows he would be on a loser in that regard.
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 12:44:50 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>
wrote:
It's fallen right off onto the muddy ground.To be fair, when Hipkins took over from Ardern he knew he had
In last night's debate all Hipkins did was tell lies about the economy and >>> >shout over the top of Luxon. Ably assisted by that harridan Mutch-Mackay. >>> >
We got to see the real Chris Hipkins and it is not pretty. It is
consistent with the Hipkins who attacked and lied about Charlotte Bellis. The
one who kept New Zealanders locked out of their own country. The one who has
presided over the greatest dumbing down of education in New Zealand's history.
inherited a polluted chalice. His role was therefore do whatever he
I think you are being far too kind. He didn't just inherit it - he was >>directly responsible for much of the polluting himself. He was the MIQ >>minister. He was education minister. He was police minister. Ardern was the >>smiling hand-waving face of the disaster but Chippie was stoking coal in the >>engine room.
A lie.
could to rescue Labour's fortunes. He started with a 'policy bonfire'
that stopped future initiatives from going any further but he could
not reverse legislation already passed (such as the Water reforms).
The changes in priorities were due to heavy commitments on new urgent
issues - storms and floods and the need to immediately divert
resources to affected areas. Yet another unplanned event nevertheless
well handled by Labour.
He never discussed a single Labour win or success because there have bbn none for 3-6 years.
He has done the best he can to defend the indefensible. The worry is
that so many still support Labour, and NZF has (again) risen from the
dead. Considering his political inexperience, Luxon has done fairly
well.
He certainly tried to avoid discussing Nationals policies and the
obvious questions about them - see for example : >https://twitter.com/i/status/1712359085960753419
--
Crash McBash
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 16:30:15 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>dumbing down of education in New Zealand's history.
wrote:
On Friday, 13 October 2023 at 11:05:18 UTC+13, Crash wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 12:44:50 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>
wrote:
It's fallen right off onto the muddy ground.
In last night's debate all Hipkins did was tell lies about the economy and shout over the top of Luxon. Ably assisted by that harridan Mutch-Mackay.
We got to see the real Chris Hipkins and it is not pretty. It is consistent with the Hipkins who attacked and lied about Charlotte Bellis. The one who kept New Zealanders locked out of their own country. The one who has presided over the greatest
disaster but Chippie was stoking coal in the engine room.To be fair, when Hipkins took over from Ardern he knew he had
inherited a polluted chalice. His role was therefore do whatever he
I think you are being far too kind. He didn't just inherit it - he was directly responsible for much of the polluting himself. He was the MIQ minister. He was education minister. He was police minister. Ardern was the smiling hand-waving face of the
As a minister you don't get to choose what you have to do - you either accept what you have to do or resign. Hipkins probably got to
participate in policy debates but that is far from certain. Resigning
is an extremely career-limiting move so comes with its own baggage, regardless of which party is involved.
could to rescue Labour's fortunes. He started with a 'policy bonfire'
that stopped future initiatives from going any further but he could
not reverse legislation already passed (such as the Water reforms).
He has done the best he can to defend the indefensible. The worry is
that so many still support Labour, and NZF has (again) risen from the
dead. Considering his political inexperience, Luxon has done fairly
well.
On Fri, 13 Oct 2023 11:05:23 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>Off topic.
wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 12:44:50 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> >>wrote:
It's fallen right off onto the muddy ground.To be fair, when Hipkins took over from Ardern he knew he had
In last night's debate all Hipkins did was tell lies about the economy and >>>shout over the top of Luxon. Ably assisted by that harridan Mutch-Mackay. >>>
We got to see the real Chris Hipkins and it is not pretty. It is consistent >>>with the Hipkins who attacked and lied about Charlotte Bellis. The one who kept
New Zealanders locked out of their own country. The one who has presided over
the greatest dumbing down of education in New Zealand's history.
inherited a polluted chalice. His role was therefore do whatever he
could to rescue Labour's fortunes. He started with a 'policy bonfire'
that stopped future initiatives from going any further but he could
not reverse legislation already passed (such as the Water reforms).
He has done the best he can to defend the indefensible. The worry is
that so many still support Labour, and NZF has (again) risen from the
dead. Considering his political inexperience, Luxon has done fairly
well.
He has a role in making it clear that National is blatantly lying
about their proposals - in effect taking from the poor to give to the
wealthy - see for example : >https://norightturn.blogspot.com/2023/10/more-class-warfare.html
I do agree that Mutch-Mackay ("Muck in your eye") has been a harridanMaybe one of them, the rest were far worse than Luxon especillay Chiipie.
- she has often put herself above anyone else, but showed bias in
allowing answers from some to go unchallenged, and shouting over
answers she did not want to hear.
The best interviewer has probably been Jack Tame - well researched
one-on-one interviews that were in the best tradition of old-style
Morning Report - allowed those being interviewed to bury themselves by
not being as well prepared; his exposure of the hypocrisy of Luxons
return on spending for benefit fraud compared with money on tax fraud
was excellent public interest journalism with no hint of bias - he was
just as hard on other politicians; they however were better prepared >themselves . . .
On Fri, 13 Oct 2023 13:18:02 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>Entirely off topic. As usual.
wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 16:59:28 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> >>wrote:
On Friday, 13 October 2023 at 12:48:58 UTC+13, Crash wrote:I believe you are wrong - your statement should read "The Cabinet >>formulates and collectively dictates policy and the minister ensures
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 16:30:15 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Friday, 13 October 2023 at 11:05:18 UTC+13, Crash wrote:As a minister you don't get to choose what you have to do - you either >>>> accept what you have to do or resign. Hipkins probably got to
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 12:44:50 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com> >>>> >> wrote:I think you are being far too kind. He didn't just inherit it - he was >>>> >directly responsible for much of the polluting himself. He was the MIQ >>>> >minister. He was education minister. He was police minister. Ardern was the
It's fallen right off onto the muddy ground.To be fair, when Hipkins took over from Ardern he knew he had
In last night's debate all Hipkins did was tell lies about the economy >>>> >> >and shout over the top of Luxon. Ably assisted by that harridan Mutch-Mackay.
We got to see the real Chris Hipkins and it is not pretty. It is
consistent with the Hipkins who attacked and lied about Charlotte Bellis. The
one who kept New Zealanders locked out of their own country. The one who has
presided over the greatest dumbing down of education in New Zealand's history.
inherited a polluted chalice. His role was therefore do whatever he >>>> >
smiling hand-waving face of the disaster but Chippie was stoking coal in the
engine room.
That is completely incorrect. The minister formulates and dictates the >>>policy and ensures it is implemented by the department. That is his job. Ardern
certainly wasn't doing this - she has little detail capability.
it is implemented by the department". This is my reading of clause
2.21: >>https://www.dpmc.govt.nz/our-business-units/cabinet-office/supporting-work-cabinet/cabinet-manual/2-ministers-crown-3
I acknowledge though that I am no expert on this.
The reality is that Cabinet Ministers usually put policies relating to
their areas of responsibility before Cabinet, and assist that group
make important decisions relating to all portfolios. It was also clear
that Hipkins was one of those most valued and trusted in the various
roles he took during traumatic times for our country. That MIQ worked
better than in some other places (particularly Melbourne!) is well
known; the increase in police numbers has made it clear that Labour
puts more importance of those resources than National, and in
Education there is significantly more support for Labour policies
among teachers than those of National - we are still suffering from
the excessive bureaucracy of National Standards which diverted
teachers from teaching; their policies of an hour a day for three
topics is a farce; professional teachers combine subjects to maximise
the extent of learning and to make each subject understandable in real
life contexts. National would drive many teachers to retirement or
move to other jobs.
participate in policy debates but that is far from certain. Resigning
is an extremely career-limiting move so comes with its own baggage,
regardless of which party is involved.
--could to rescue Labour's fortunes. He started with a 'policy bonfire' >>>> >> that stopped future initiatives from going any further but he could >>>> >> not reverse legislation already passed (such as the Water reforms). >>>> >>
He has done the best he can to defend the indefensible. The worry is >>>> >> that so many still support Labour, and NZF has (again) risen from the >>>> >> dead. Considering his political inexperience, Luxon has done fairly >>>> >> well.
--
Crash McBash
Crash McBash
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:get lost - you are wrong as usual
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 16:30:15 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> >>wrote:Nonsense - prove it.
On Friday, 13 October 2023 at 11:05:18 UTC+13, Crash wrote:And did well in all those roles - certainly Luxon has never suggested >>otherwise; he knows he would be on a loser in that regard.
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 12:44:50 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>
wrote:
It's fallen right off onto the muddy ground.To be fair, when Hipkins took over from Ardern he knew he had
In last night's debate all Hipkins did was tell lies about the economy and
shout over the top of Luxon. Ably assisted by that harridan Mutch-Mackay. >>>> >
We got to see the real Chris Hipkins and it is not pretty. It is
consistent with the Hipkins who attacked and lied about Charlotte Bellis. The
one who kept New Zealanders locked out of their own country. The one who has
presided over the greatest dumbing down of education in New Zealand's history.
inherited a polluted chalice. His role was therefore do whatever he
I think you are being far too kind. He didn't just inherit it - he was >>>directly responsible for much of the polluting himself. He was the MIQ >>>minister. He was education minister. He was police minister. Ardern was the >>>smiling hand-waving face of the disaster but Chippie was stoking coal in the >>>engine room.
Wrong as usualA lie.
could to rescue Labour's fortunes. He started with a 'policy bonfire'
that stopped future initiatives from going any further but he could
not reverse legislation already passed (such as the Water reforms).
The changes in priorities were due to heavy commitments on new urgent >>issues - storms and floods and the need to immediately divert
resources to affected areas. Yet another unplanned event nevertheless
well handled by Labour.
Off topicHe never discussed a single Labour win or success because there have bbn none >for 3-6 years.
He has done the best he can to defend the indefensible. The worry is
that so many still support Labour, and NZF has (again) risen from the
dead. Considering his political inexperience, Luxon has done fairly
well.
He certainly tried to avoid discussing Nationals policies and the
obvious questions about them - see for example : >>https://twitter.com/i/status/1712359085960753419
--
Crash McBash
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:On the contrary; entirely relevant - and true.
On Fri, 13 Oct 2023 11:05:23 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>wrote:Off topic.
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 12:44:50 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> >>>wrote:
It's fallen right off onto the muddy ground.To be fair, when Hipkins took over from Ardern he knew he had
In last night's debate all Hipkins did was tell lies about the economy and >>>>shout over the top of Luxon. Ably assisted by that harridan Mutch-Mackay. >>>>
We got to see the real Chris Hipkins and it is not pretty. It is consistent >>>>with the Hipkins who attacked and lied about Charlotte Bellis. The one who kept
New Zealanders locked out of their own country. The one who has presided over
the greatest dumbing down of education in New Zealand's history.
inherited a polluted chalice. His role was therefore do whatever he >>>could to rescue Labour's fortunes. He started with a 'policy bonfire' >>>that stopped future initiatives from going any further but he could
not reverse legislation already passed (such as the Water reforms).
He has done the best he can to defend the indefensible. The worry is >>>that so many still support Labour, and NZF has (again) risen from the >>>dead. Considering his political inexperience, Luxon has done fairly >>>well.
He has a role in making it clear that National is blatantly lying
about their proposals - in effect taking from the poor to give to the >>wealthy - see for example : >>https://norightturn.blogspot.com/2023/10/more-class-warfare.html
You are losing it, Tony . . .Maybe one of them, the rest were far worse than Luxon especillay Chiipie.
I do agree that Mutch-Mackay ("Muck in your eye") has been a harridan
- she has often put herself above anyone else, but showed bias in
allowing answers from some to go unchallenged, and shouting over
answers she did not want to hear.
The best interviewer has probably been Jack Tame - well researched >>one-on-one interviews that were in the best tradition of old-style
Morning Report - allowed those being interviewed to bury themselves by
not being as well prepared; his exposure of the hypocrisy of Luxons
return on spending for benefit fraud compared with money on tax fraud
was excellent public interest journalism with no hint of bias - he was
just as hard on other politicians; they however were better prepared >>themselves . . .
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:Entirely wrong - as usual.
On Fri, 13 Oct 2023 13:18:02 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>wrote:Entirely off topic. As usual.
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 16:59:28 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> >>>wrote:
On Friday, 13 October 2023 at 12:48:58 UTC+13, Crash wrote:I believe you are wrong - your statement should read "The Cabinet >>>formulates and collectively dictates policy and the minister ensures
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 16:30:15 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Friday, 13 October 2023 at 11:05:18 UTC+13, Crash wrote:As a minister you don't get to choose what you have to do - you either >>>>> accept what you have to do or resign. Hipkins probably got to
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 12:44:50 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com> >>>>> >> wrote:I think you are being far too kind. He didn't just inherit it - he was >>>>> >directly responsible for much of the polluting himself. He was the MIQ >>>>> >minister. He was education minister. He was police minister. Ardern was the
It's fallen right off onto the muddy ground.To be fair, when Hipkins took over from Ardern he knew he had
In last night's debate all Hipkins did was tell lies about the economy
and shout over the top of Luxon. Ably assisted by that harridan Mutch-Mackay.
We got to see the real Chris Hipkins and it is not pretty. It is >>>>> >> >consistent with the Hipkins who attacked and lied about Charlotte Bellis. The
one who kept New Zealanders locked out of their own country. The one who has
presided over the greatest dumbing down of education in New Zealand's history.
inherited a polluted chalice. His role was therefore do whatever he >>>>> >
smiling hand-waving face of the disaster but Chippie was stoking coal in the
engine room.
That is completely incorrect. The minister formulates and dictates the >>>>policy and ensures it is implemented by the department. That is his job. Ardern
certainly wasn't doing this - she has little detail capability.
it is implemented by the department". This is my reading of clause
2.21: >>>https://www.dpmc.govt.nz/our-business-units/cabinet-office/supporting-work-cabinet/cabinet-manual/2-ministers-crown-3
I acknowledge though that I am no expert on this.
The reality is that Cabinet Ministers usually put policies relating to >>their areas of responsibility before Cabinet, and assist that group
make important decisions relating to all portfolios. It was also clear
that Hipkins was one of those most valued and trusted in the various
roles he took during traumatic times for our country. That MIQ worked >>better than in some other places (particularly Melbourne!) is well
known; the increase in police numbers has made it clear that Labour
puts more importance of those resources than National, and in
Education there is significantly more support for Labour policies
among teachers than those of National - we are still suffering from
the excessive bureaucracy of National Standards which diverted
teachers from teaching; their policies of an hour a day for three
topics is a farce; professional teachers combine subjects to maximise
the extent of learning and to make each subject understandable in real
life contexts. National would drive many teachers to retirement or
move to other jobs.
participate in policy debates but that is far from certain. Resigning >>>>> is an extremely career-limiting move so comes with its own baggage,
regardless of which party is involved.
--could to rescue Labour's fortunes. He started with a 'policy bonfire' >>>>> >> that stopped future initiatives from going any further but he could >>>>> >> not reverse legislation already passed (such as the Water reforms). >>>>> >>
He has done the best he can to defend the indefensible. The worry is >>>>> >> that so many still support Labour, and NZF has (again) risen from the >>>>> >> dead. Considering his political inexperience, Luxon has done fairly >>>>> >> well.
--
Crash McBash
Crash McBash
On Fri, 13 Oct 2023 02:29:03 -0000 (UTC), TonyOh OK, so you insist that you are not off topic merely entirely wrong. I suggest you are both.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:Entirely wrong - as usual.
On Fri, 13 Oct 2023 13:18:02 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>wrote:Entirely off topic. As usual.
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 16:59:28 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> >>>>wrote:
On Friday, 13 October 2023 at 12:48:58 UTC+13, Crash wrote:I believe you are wrong - your statement should read "The Cabinet >>>>formulates and collectively dictates policy and the minister ensures
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 16:30:15 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote:
On Friday, 13 October 2023 at 11:05:18 UTC+13, Crash wrote:As a minister you don't get to choose what you have to do - you either >>>>>> accept what you have to do or resign. Hipkins probably got to
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 12:44:50 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com> >>>>>> >> wrote:I think you are being far too kind. He didn't just inherit it - he was >>>>>> >directly responsible for much of the polluting himself. He was the MIQ >>>>>> >minister. He was education minister. He was police minister. Ardern was >>>>>> >the
It's fallen right off onto the muddy ground.To be fair, when Hipkins took over from Ardern he knew he had
In last night's debate all Hipkins did was tell lies about the >>>>>> >> >economy
and shout over the top of Luxon. Ably assisted by that harridan >>>>>> >> >Mutch-Mackay.
We got to see the real Chris Hipkins and it is not pretty. It is >>>>>> >> >consistent with the Hipkins who attacked and lied about Charlotte >>>>>> >> >Bellis. The
one who kept New Zealanders locked out of their own country. The one >>>>>> >> >who has
presided over the greatest dumbing down of education in New
Zealand's history.
inherited a polluted chalice. His role was therefore do whatever he >>>>>> >
smiling hand-waving face of the disaster but Chippie was stoking coal >>>>>> >in the
engine room.
That is completely incorrect. The minister formulates and dictates the >>>>>policy and ensures it is implemented by the department. That is his job. >>>>>Ardern
certainly wasn't doing this - she has little detail capability.
it is implemented by the department". This is my reading of clause >>>>2.21: >>>>https://www.dpmc.govt.nz/our-business-units/cabinet-office/supporting-work-cabinet/cabinet-manual/2-ministers-crown-3
I acknowledge though that I am no expert on this.
The reality is that Cabinet Ministers usually put policies relating to >>>their areas of responsibility before Cabinet, and assist that group
make important decisions relating to all portfolios. It was also clear >>>that Hipkins was one of those most valued and trusted in the various >>>roles he took during traumatic times for our country. That MIQ worked >>>better than in some other places (particularly Melbourne!) is well
known; the increase in police numbers has made it clear that Labour
puts more importance of those resources than National, and in
Education there is significantly more support for Labour policies
among teachers than those of National - we are still suffering from
the excessive bureaucracy of National Standards which diverted
teachers from teaching; their policies of an hour a day for three
topics is a farce; professional teachers combine subjects to maximise
the extent of learning and to make each subject understandable in real >>>life contexts. National would drive many teachers to retirement or
move to other jobs.
participate in policy debates but that is far from certain. Resigning >>>>>> is an extremely career-limiting move so comes with its own baggage, >>>>>> regardless of which party is involved.
--could to rescue Labour's fortunes. He started with a 'policy bonfire' >>>>>> >> that stopped future initiatives from going any further but he could >>>>>> >> not reverse legislation already passed (such as the Water reforms). >>>>>> >>
He has done the best he can to defend the indefensible. The worry is >>>>>> >> that so many still support Labour, and NZF has (again) risen from the >>>>>> >> dead. Considering his political inexperience, Luxon has done fairly >>>>>> >> well.
--
Crash McBash
Crash McBash
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 13 Oct 2023 02:29:03 -0000 (UTC), TonyOh OK, so you insist that you are not off topic merely entirely wrong. I >suggest you are both.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:Entirely wrong - as usual.
On Fri, 13 Oct 2023 13:18:02 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>wrote:Entirely off topic. As usual.
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 16:59:28 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> >>>>>wrote:
On Friday, 13 October 2023 at 12:48:58 UTC+13, Crash wrote:I believe you are wrong - your statement should read "The Cabinet >>>>>formulates and collectively dictates policy and the minister ensures >>>>>it is implemented by the department". This is my reading of clause >>>>>2.21: >>>>>https://www.dpmc.govt.nz/our-business-units/cabinet-office/supporting-work-cabinet/cabinet-manual/2-ministers-crown-3
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 16:30:15 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com> >>>>>>> wrote:
On Friday, 13 October 2023 at 11:05:18 UTC+13, Crash wrote:As a minister you don't get to choose what you have to do - you either >>>>>>> accept what you have to do or resign. Hipkins probably got to
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 12:44:50 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com> >>>>>>> >> wrote:I think you are being far too kind. He didn't just inherit it - he was >>>>>>> >directly responsible for much of the polluting himself. He was the MIQ >>>>>>> >minister. He was education minister. He was police minister. Ardern was
It's fallen right off onto the muddy ground.To be fair, when Hipkins took over from Ardern he knew he had >>>>>>> >> inherited a polluted chalice. His role was therefore do whatever he >>>>>>> >
In last night's debate all Hipkins did was tell lies about the >>>>>>> >> >economy
and shout over the top of Luxon. Ably assisted by that harridan >>>>>>> >> >Mutch-Mackay.
We got to see the real Chris Hipkins and it is not pretty. It is >>>>>>> >> >consistent with the Hipkins who attacked and lied about Charlotte >>>>>>> >> >Bellis. The
one who kept New Zealanders locked out of their own country. The one
who has
presided over the greatest dumbing down of education in New
Zealand's history.
the
smiling hand-waving face of the disaster but Chippie was stoking coal >>>>>>> >in the
engine room.
That is completely incorrect. The minister formulates and dictates the >>>>>>policy and ensures it is implemented by the department. That is his job. >>>>>>Ardern
certainly wasn't doing this - she has little detail capability.
I acknowledge though that I am no expert on this.
The reality is that Cabinet Ministers usually put policies relating to >>>>their areas of responsibility before Cabinet, and assist that group >>>>make important decisions relating to all portfolios. It was also clear >>>>that Hipkins was one of those most valued and trusted in the various >>>>roles he took during traumatic times for our country. That MIQ worked >>>>better than in some other places (particularly Melbourne!) is well >>>>known; the increase in police numbers has made it clear that Labour >>>>puts more importance of those resources than National, and in
Education there is significantly more support for Labour policies
among teachers than those of National - we are still suffering from
the excessive bureaucracy of National Standards which diverted
teachers from teaching; their policies of an hour a day for three >>>>topics is a farce; professional teachers combine subjects to maximise >>>>the extent of learning and to make each subject understandable in real >>>>life contexts. National would drive many teachers to retirement or
move to other jobs.
participate in policy debates but that is far from certain. Resigning >>>>>>> is an extremely career-limiting move so comes with its own baggage, >>>>>>> regardless of which party is involved.
--could to rescue Labour's fortunes. He started with a 'policy bonfire'
that stopped future initiatives from going any further but he could >>>>>>> >> not reverse legislation already passed (such as the Water reforms). >>>>>>> >>
He has done the best he can to defend the indefensible. The worry is >>>>>>> >> that so many still support Labour, and NZF has (again) risen from the
dead. Considering his political inexperience, Luxon has done fairly >>>>>>> >> well.
--
Crash McBash
Crash McBash
On Fri, 13 Oct 2023 04:21:32 -0000 (UTC), TonyNot at all, I see you for exactly what you are. And it disgusts me as it disgusts so many others.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 13 Oct 2023 02:29:03 -0000 (UTC), TonyOh OK, so you insist that you are not off topic merely entirely wrong. I >>suggest you are both.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:Entirely wrong - as usual.
On Fri, 13 Oct 2023 13:18:02 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>>wrote:Entirely off topic. As usual.
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 16:59:28 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> >>>>>>wrote:
On Friday, 13 October 2023 at 12:48:58 UTC+13, Crash wrote:I believe you are wrong - your statement should read "The Cabinet >>>>>>formulates and collectively dictates policy and the minister ensures >>>>>>it is implemented by the department". This is my reading of clause >>>>>>2.21: >>>>>>https://www.dpmc.govt.nz/our-business-units/cabinet-office/supporting-work-cabinet/cabinet-manual/2-ministers-crown-3
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 16:30:15 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote:
On Friday, 13 October 2023 at 11:05:18 UTC+13, Crash wrote:As a minister you don't get to choose what you have to do - you either >>>>>>>> accept what you have to do or resign. Hipkins probably got to
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 12:44:50 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> >> wrote:I think you are being far too kind. He didn't just inherit it - he >>>>>>>> >was
It's fallen right off onto the muddy ground.To be fair, when Hipkins took over from Ardern he knew he had >>>>>>>> >> inherited a polluted chalice. His role was therefore do whatever he >>>>>>>> >
In last night's debate all Hipkins did was tell lies about the >>>>>>>> >> >economy
and shout over the top of Luxon. Ably assisted by that harridan >>>>>>>> >> >Mutch-Mackay.
We got to see the real Chris Hipkins and it is not pretty. It is >>>>>>>> >> >consistent with the Hipkins who attacked and lied about Charlotte >>>>>>>> >> >Bellis. The
one who kept New Zealanders locked out of their own country. The >>>>>>>> >> >one
who has
presided over the greatest dumbing down of education in New >>>>>>>> >> >Zealand's history.
directly responsible for much of the polluting himself. He was the >>>>>>>> >MIQ
minister. He was education minister. He was police minister. Ardern >>>>>>>> >was
the
smiling hand-waving face of the disaster but Chippie was stoking coal >>>>>>>> >in the
engine room.
That is completely incorrect. The minister formulates and dictates the >>>>>>>policy and ensures it is implemented by the department. That is his job. >>>>>>>Ardern
certainly wasn't doing this - she has little detail capability.
I acknowledge though that I am no expert on this.
The reality is that Cabinet Ministers usually put policies relating to >>>>>their areas of responsibility before Cabinet, and assist that group >>>>>make important decisions relating to all portfolios. It was also clear >>>>>that Hipkins was one of those most valued and trusted in the various >>>>>roles he took during traumatic times for our country. That MIQ worked >>>>>better than in some other places (particularly Melbourne!) is well >>>>>known; the increase in police numbers has made it clear that Labour >>>>>puts more importance of those resources than National, and in >>>>>Education there is significantly more support for Labour policies >>>>>among teachers than those of National - we are still suffering from >>>>>the excessive bureaucracy of National Standards which diverted >>>>>teachers from teaching; their policies of an hour a day for three >>>>>topics is a farce; professional teachers combine subjects to maximise >>>>>the extent of learning and to make each subject understandable in real >>>>>life contexts. National would drive many teachers to retirement or >>>>>move to other jobs.
Very droll - what a silly distorted view of the world you have, Tony.
participate in policy debates but that is far from certain. Resigning >>>>>>>> is an extremely career-limiting move so comes with its own baggage, >>>>>>>> regardless of which party is involved.
--could to rescue Labour's fortunes. He started with a 'policy >>>>>>>> >>bonfire'
that stopped future initiatives from going any further but he could >>>>>>>> >> not reverse legislation already passed (such as the Water reforms). >>>>>>>> >>
He has done the best he can to defend the indefensible. The worry >>>>>>>> >>is
that so many still support Labour, and NZF has (again) risen from >>>>>>>> >>the
dead. Considering his political inexperience, Luxon has done fairly >>>>>>>> >> well.
--
Crash McBash
Crash McBash
On Fri, 13 Oct 2023 11:05:23 +1300, Crash <nog...@dontbother.invalid>dumbing down of education in New Zealand's history.
wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 12:44:50 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>
wrote:
It's fallen right off onto the muddy ground.
In last night's debate all Hipkins did was tell lies about the economy and shout over the top of Luxon. Ably assisted by that harridan Mutch-Mackay.
We got to see the real Chris Hipkins and it is not pretty. It is consistent with the Hipkins who attacked and lied about Charlotte Bellis. The one who kept New Zealanders locked out of their own country. The one who has presided over the greatest
To be fair, when Hipkins took over from Ardern he knew he had
inherited a polluted chalice. His role was therefore do whatever he
could to rescue Labour's fortunes. He started with a 'policy bonfire'
that stopped future initiatives from going any further but he could
not reverse legislation already passed (such as the Water reforms).
He has done the best he can to defend the indefensible. The worry isHe has a role in making it clear that National is blatantly lying
that so many still support Labour, and NZF has (again) risen from the >dead. Considering his political inexperience, Luxon has done fairly
well.
about their proposals - in effect taking from the poor to give to the wealthy - see for example : https://norightturn.blogspot.com/2023/10/more-class-warfare.html
I do agree that Mutch-Mackay ("Muck in your eye") has been a harridan
- she has often put herself above anyone else, but showed bias in
allowing answers from some to go unchallenged, and shouting over
answers she did not want to hear.
The best interviewer has probably been Jack Tame - well researched one-on-one interviews that were in the best tradition of old-style
Morning Report - allowed those being interviewed to bury themselves by
not being as well prepared; his exposure of the hypocrisy of Luxons
return on spending for benefit fraud compared with money on tax fraud
was excellent public interest journalism with no hint of bias - he was
just as hard on other politicians; they however were better prepared themselves . . .
On Fri, 13 Oct 2023 02:32:19 -0000 (UTC), TonyAs you have written several times in this thread, you are wrong - youn were and are off topic.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:On the contrary; entirely relevant - and true.
On Fri, 13 Oct 2023 11:05:23 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>wrote:Off topic.
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 12:44:50 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> >>>>wrote:
It's fallen right off onto the muddy ground.To be fair, when Hipkins took over from Ardern he knew he had
In last night's debate all Hipkins did was tell lies about the economy and >>>>>shout over the top of Luxon. Ably assisted by that harridan Mutch-Mackay. >>>>>
We got to see the real Chris Hipkins and it is not pretty. It is >>>>>consistent
with the Hipkins who attacked and lied about Charlotte Bellis. The one who >>>>>kept
New Zealanders locked out of their own country. The one who has presided >>>>>over
the greatest dumbing down of education in New Zealand's history.
inherited a polluted chalice. His role was therefore do whatever he >>>>could to rescue Labour's fortunes. He started with a 'policy bonfire' >>>>that stopped future initiatives from going any further but he could
not reverse legislation already passed (such as the Water reforms).
He has done the best he can to defend the indefensible. The worry is >>>>that so many still support Labour, and NZF has (again) risen from the >>>>dead. Considering his political inexperience, Luxon has done fairly >>>>well.
He has a role in making it clear that National is blatantly lying
about their proposals - in effect taking from the poor to give to the >>>wealthy - see for example : >>>https://norightturn.blogspot.com/2023/10/more-class-warfare.html
No. not me. Chippy was appalling in the way he shouted and bawled his way through the charade. Almost as disgraceful as you, but only almost!Maybe one of them, the rest were far worse than Luxon especillay Chiipie. >You are losing it, Tony . . .
I do agree that Mutch-Mackay ("Muck in your eye") has been a harridan
- she has often put herself above anyone else, but showed bias in >>>allowing answers from some to go unchallenged, and shouting over
answers she did not want to hear.
The best interviewer has probably been Jack Tame - well researched >>>one-on-one interviews that were in the best tradition of old-style >>>Morning Report - allowed those being interviewed to bury themselves by >>>not being as well prepared; his exposure of the hypocrisy of Luxons >>>return on spending for benefit fraud compared with money on tax fraud
was excellent public interest journalism with no hint of bias - he was >>>just as hard on other politicians; they however were better prepared >>>themselves . . .
On Fri, 13 Oct 2023 02:30:32 -0000 (UTC), TonyNo I shall not get lost - you have me for the duration. And I am not wrong. Prove what you wrote, I doubt you can.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:get lost - you are wrong as usual
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 16:30:15 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> >>>wrote:Nonsense - prove it.
On Friday, 13 October 2023 at 11:05:18 UTC+13, Crash wrote:And did well in all those roles - certainly Luxon has never suggested >>>otherwise; he knows he would be on a loser in that regard.
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 12:44:50 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>
wrote:
It's fallen right off onto the muddy ground.To be fair, when Hipkins took over from Ardern he knew he had
In last night's debate all Hipkins did was tell lies about the economy >>>>> >and
shout over the top of Luxon. Ably assisted by that harridan
Mutch-Mackay.
We got to see the real Chris Hipkins and it is not pretty. It is
consistent with the Hipkins who attacked and lied about Charlotte
Bellis. The
one who kept New Zealanders locked out of their own country. The one who >>>>> >has
presided over the greatest dumbing down of education in New Zealand's >>>>> >history.
inherited a polluted chalice. His role was therefore do whatever he
I think you are being far too kind. He didn't just inherit it - he was >>>>directly responsible for much of the polluting himself. He was the MIQ >>>>minister. He was education minister. He was police minister. Ardern was the >>>>smiling hand-waving face of the disaster but Chippie was stoking coal in >>>>the
engine room.
Indeed you are.Wrong as usualA lie.
could to rescue Labour's fortunes. He started with a 'policy bonfire' >>>>> that stopped future initiatives from going any further but he could
not reverse legislation already passed (such as the Water reforms).
The changes in priorities were due to heavy commitments on new urgent >>>issues - storms and floods and the need to immediately divert
resources to affected areas. Yet another unplanned event nevertheless >>>well handled by Labour.
Off topicHe never discussed a single Labour win or success because there have bbn none >>for 3-6 years.
He has done the best he can to defend the indefensible. The worry is >>>>> that so many still support Labour, and NZF has (again) risen from the >>>>> dead. Considering his political inexperience, Luxon has done fairly
well.
He certainly tried to avoid discussing Nationals policies and the
obvious questions about them - see for example : >>>https://twitter.com/i/status/1712359085960753419
--
Crash McBash
On Fri, 13 Oct 2023 11:05:23 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>dumbing down of education in New Zealand's history.
wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 12:44:50 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> >>wrote:
It's fallen right off onto the muddy ground.
In last night's debate all Hipkins did was tell lies about the economy and shout over the top of Luxon. Ably assisted by that harridan Mutch-Mackay.
We got to see the real Chris Hipkins and it is not pretty. It is consistent with the Hipkins who attacked and lied about Charlotte Bellis. The one who kept New Zealanders locked out of their own country. The one who has presided over the greatest
To be fair, when Hipkins took over from Ardern he knew he had
inherited a polluted chalice. His role was therefore do whatever he
could to rescue Labour's fortunes. He started with a 'policy bonfire'
that stopped future initiatives from going any further but he could
not reverse legislation already passed (such as the Water reforms).
He has done the best he can to defend the indefensible. The worry is
that so many still support Labour, and NZF has (again) risen from the
dead. Considering his political inexperience, Luxon has done fairly
well.
He has a role in making it clear that National is blatantly lying
about their proposals - in effect taking from the poor to give to the
wealthy - see for example : >https://norightturn.blogspot.com/2023/10/more-class-warfare.html
I do agree that Mutch-Mackay ("Muck in your eye") has been a harridan
- she has often put herself above anyone else, but showed bias in
allowing answers from some to go unchallenged, and shouting over
answers she did not want to hear.
The best interviewer has probably been Jack Tame - well researched
one-on-one interviews that were in the best tradition of old-style
Morning Report - allowed those being interviewed to bury themselves by
not being as well prepared; his exposure of the hypocrisy of Luxons
return on spending for benefit fraud compared with money on tax fraud
was excellent public interest journalism with no hint of bias - he was
just as hard on other politicians; they however were better prepared >themselves . . .
On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 12:48:58?PM UTC+13, Crash wrote:dumbing down of education in New Zealand's history.
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 16:30:15 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Friday, 13 October 2023 at 11:05:18 UTC+13, Crash wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 12:44:50 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>
wrote:
It's fallen right off onto the muddy ground.
In last night's debate all Hipkins did was tell lies about the economy and shout over the top of Luxon. Ably assisted by that harridan Mutch-Mackay.
We got to see the real Chris Hipkins and it is not pretty. It is consistent with the Hipkins who attacked and lied about Charlotte Bellis. The one who kept New Zealanders locked out of their own country. The one who has presided over the greatest
disaster but Chippie was stoking coal in the engine room.To be fair, when Hipkins took over from Ardern he knew he had
inherited a polluted chalice. His role was therefore do whatever he
I think you are being far too kind. He didn't just inherit it - he was directly responsible for much of the polluting himself. He was the MIQ minister. He was education minister. He was police minister. Ardern was the smiling hand-waving face of the
As a minister you don't get to choose what you have to do - you either
accept what you have to do or resign. Hipkins probably got to
participate in policy debates but that is far from certain. Resigning
is an extremely career-limiting move so comes with its own baggage,
regardless of which party is involved.
could to rescue Labour's fortunes. He started with a 'policy bonfire'
that stopped future initiatives from going any further but he could
not reverse legislation already passed (such as the Water reforms).
He has done the best he can to defend the indefensible. The worry is
that so many still support Labour, and NZF has (again) risen from the
dead. Considering his political inexperience, Luxon has done fairly
well.
So what does he really have going for him that New Zealanders can't do without when he himself is not only so irredeemably lacking in both inspiration and charisma, but also so ploddingly unexceptional in his blank-eyed corporate-clone self-presentation?
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 13 Oct 2023 04:21:32 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 13 Oct 2023 02:29:03 -0000 (UTC), TonyOh OK, so you insist that you are not off topic merely entirely wrong. I >>suggest you are both.
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:Entirely wrong - as usual.
On Fri, 13 Oct 2023 13:18:02 +1300, Crash <nog...@dontbother.invalid> >>>>>wrote:Entirely off topic. As usual.
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 16:59:28 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com> >>>>>>wrote:
On Friday, 13 October 2023 at 12:48:58 UTC+13, Crash wrote:I believe you are wrong - your statement should read "The Cabinet >>>>>>formulates and collectively dictates policy and the minister ensures >>>>>>it is implemented by the department". This is my reading of clause >>>>>>2.21: >>>>>>https://www.dpmc.govt.nz/our-business-units/cabinet-office/supporting-work-cabinet/cabinet-manual/2-ministers-crown-3
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 16:30:15 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote:That is completely incorrect. The minister formulates and dictates the
On Friday, 13 October 2023 at 11:05:18 UTC+13, Crash wrote: >>>>>>>> >> On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 12:44:50 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>As a minister you don't get to choose what you have to do - you either
wrote:
It's fallen right off onto the muddy ground.To be fair, when Hipkins took over from Ardern he knew he had >>>>>>>> >> inherited a polluted chalice. His role was therefore do whatever he
In last night's debate all Hipkins did was tell lies about the >>>>>>>> >> >economy
and shout over the top of Luxon. Ably assisted by that harridan >>>>>>>> >> >Mutch-Mackay.
We got to see the real Chris Hipkins and it is not pretty. It is
consistent with the Hipkins who attacked and lied about Charlotte
Bellis. The
one who kept New Zealanders locked out of their own country. The
one
who has
presided over the greatest dumbing down of education in New >>>>>>>> >> >Zealand's history.
I think you are being far too kind. He didn't just inherit it - he >>>>>>>> >was
directly responsible for much of the polluting himself. He was the >>>>>>>> >MIQ
minister. He was education minister. He was police minister. Ardern
was
the
smiling hand-waving face of the disaster but Chippie was stoking coal
in the
engine room.
accept what you have to do or resign. Hipkins probably got to >>>>>>>
policy and ensures it is implemented by the department. That is his job.
Ardern
certainly wasn't doing this - she has little detail capability. >>>>>>>
I acknowledge though that I am no expert on this.
The reality is that Cabinet Ministers usually put policies relating to >>>>>their areas of responsibility before Cabinet, and assist that group >>>>>make important decisions relating to all portfolios. It was also clear >>>>>that Hipkins was one of those most valued and trusted in the various >>>>>roles he took during traumatic times for our country. That MIQ worked >>>>>better than in some other places (particularly Melbourne!) is well >>>>>known; the increase in police numbers has made it clear that Labour >>>>>puts more importance of those resources than National, and in >>>>>Education there is significantly more support for Labour policies >>>>>among teachers than those of National - we are still suffering from >>>>>the excessive bureaucracy of National Standards which diverted >>>>>teachers from teaching; their policies of an hour a day for three >>>>>topics is a farce; professional teachers combine subjects to maximise >>>>>the extent of learning and to make each subject understandable in real >>>>>life contexts. National would drive many teachers to retirement or >>>>>move to other jobs.
Very droll - what a silly distorted view of the world you have, Tony.Not at all, I see you for exactly what you are. And it disgusts me as it disgusts so many others.
For reasons that you have no chance of understanding.Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 13 Oct 2023 04:21:32 -0000 (UTC), TonyNot at all, I see you for exactly what you are. And it disgusts me as it
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 13 Oct 2023 02:29:03 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 13 Oct 2023 13:18:02 +1300, Crash <nog...@dontbother.invalid> >> >>>>>wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 16:59:28 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Friday, 13 October 2023 at 12:48:58 UTC+13, Crash wrote:I believe you are wrong - your statement should read "The Cabinet
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 16:30:15 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com> >> >>>>>>>> wrote:
On Friday, 13 October 2023 at 11:05:18 UTC+13, Crash wrote:As a minister you don't get to choose what you have to do - you
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 12:44:50 -0700 (PDT), JohnO
<john...@gmail.com>
wrote:
It's fallen right off onto the muddy ground.To be fair, when Hipkins took over from Ardern he knew he had
In last night's debate all Hipkins did was tell lies about the >> >>>>>>>> >> >economy
and shout over the top of Luxon. Ably assisted by that harridan >> >>>>>>>> >> >Mutch-Mackay.
We got to see the real Chris Hipkins and it is not pretty. It >> >>>>>>>> >> >is
consistent with the Hipkins who attacked and lied about
Charlotte
Bellis. The
one who kept New Zealanders locked out of their own country.
The
one
who has
presided over the greatest dumbing down of education in New
Zealand's history.
inherited a polluted chalice. His role was therefore do whatever >> >>>>>>>> >>he
I think you are being far too kind. He didn't just inherit it - he >> >>>>>>>> >was
directly responsible for much of the polluting himself. He was the >> >>>>>>>> >MIQ
minister. He was education minister. He was police minister.
Ardern
was
the
smiling hand-waving face of the disaster but Chippie was stoking >> >>>>>>>> >coal
in the
engine room.
either
accept what you have to do or resign. Hipkins probably got to
That is completely incorrect. The minister formulates and dictates
the
policy and ensures it is implemented by the department. That is his >> >>>>>>>job.
Ardern
certainly wasn't doing this - she has little detail capability.
formulates and collectively dictates policy and the minister ensures >> >>>>>>it is implemented by the department". This is my reading of clause
2.21:
Oh OK, so you insist that you are not off topic merely entirely wrong. I >> >>suggest you are both.Entirely wrong - as usual.Entirely off topic. As usual.https://www.dpmc.govt.nz/our-business-units/cabinet-office/supporting-work-cabinet/cabinet-manual/2-ministers-crown-3
I acknowledge though that I am no expert on this.
The reality is that Cabinet Ministers usually put policies relating to >> >>>>>their areas of responsibility before Cabinet, and assist that group
make important decisions relating to all portfolios. It was also clear >> >>>>>that Hipkins was one of those most valued and trusted in the various
roles he took during traumatic times for our country. That MIQ worked >> >>>>>better than in some other places (particularly Melbourne!) is well
known; the increase in police numbers has made it clear that Labour
puts more importance of those resources than National, and in
Education there is significantly more support for Labour policies
among teachers than those of National - we are still suffering from
the excessive bureaucracy of National Standards which diverted
teachers from teaching; their policies of an hour a day for three
topics is a farce; professional teachers combine subjects to maximise >> >>>>>the extent of learning and to make each subject understandable in real >> >>>>>life contexts. National would drive many teachers to retirement or
move to other jobs.
Very droll - what a silly distorted view of the world you have, Tony.
disgusts so many others.
Quite so. In which case, why persist in encouraging Rich even further?
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