I have seen a number of instances where the leadership of this party
(Rawiri Waititi, Debbie Ngarewa-Parker or John Tamahere) claim to
speak on behalf of Maori. They do not. While Waititi is the member
for Waiariki, he did so with a vote count of 12,389, from a total of
27,699. Because the electionresults website does not list the party affiliation of candidates (I knew Waititi was the Maori Party
candidate in Waiariki) it is not easy to see how well Maori party
candidates did in the other Maori electorates.
What is clear though is that Maori voters did not support the Maori
Party to anywhere near a level that allows the party to justifiably
claim to represent Maori. Labour, on the other hand, do have such a
mandate. As chair of the Labour Maori caucus, Willie Jackson can
quite clearly justify the mantle of Maori political leadership.
It is equally interesting to see the political parties most fervently opposing co-governance as contained in the water forms legislation
(NZF and ACT) have leaders that have Maori ancestry. The mass media
don't seem to consider this an issue worth exploring - that the
'opposition to co-governance' is led my Maori.
On 2023-10-05, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:Not only is is under attack but it is unashamedly so (Ardern speeches on the subject to the UN and elsewhere are proof of that).
I have seen a number of instances where the leadership of this partyIt is important that elites (who want power, money and control) are a small >group which exists in any race. When using Maori and Co-governence together >it is important to make the distinction that not all Maori are elites. Co-governance is about power and about the deliberate removal of democracy. At least one of the so-called Maori "leaders" has stated as much.
(Rawiri Waititi, Debbie Ngarewa-Parker or John Tamahere) claim to
speak on behalf of Maori. They do not. While Waititi is the member
for Waiariki, he did so with a vote count of 12,389, from a total of
27,699. Because the electionresults website does not list the party
affiliation of candidates (I knew Waititi was the Maori Party
candidate in Waiariki) it is not easy to see how well Maori party
candidates did in the other Maori electorates.
What is clear though is that Maori voters did not support the Maori
Party to anywhere near a level that allows the party to justifiably
claim to represent Maori. Labour, on the other hand, do have such a
mandate. As chair of the Labour Maori caucus, Willie Jackson can
quite clearly justify the mantle of Maori political leadership.
It is equally interesting to see the political parties most fervently
opposing co-governance as contained in the water forms legislation
(NZF and ACT) have leaders that have Maori ancestry. The mass media
don't seem to consider this an issue worth exploring - that the
'opposition to co-governance' is led my Maori.
The elites want confusion and division so that they can rule, grab power and >money.
Last year John Bowes posted (from memory) that the average Maori was angry
at this co-governace water issue.
The mass media are almost incapable or unwilling to dig into any serious >topics. So we have the alternatives springing up like weeds in the garden
and the Government trying to shut them down. Freedom of speech is under >attack.
On 2023-10-05, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
I have seen a number of instances where the leadership of this partyIt is important that elites (who want power, money and control) are a small >group which exists in any race. When using Maori and Co-governence together >it is important to make the distinction that not all Maori are elites.
(Rawiri Waititi, Debbie Ngarewa-Parker or John Tamahere) claim to
speak on behalf of Maori. They do not. While Waititi is the member
for Waiariki, he did so with a vote count of 12,389, from a total of
27,699. Because the electionresults website does not list the party
affiliation of candidates (I knew Waititi was the Maori Party
candidate in Waiariki) it is not easy to see how well Maori party
candidates did in the other Maori electorates.
What is clear though is that Maori voters did not support the Maori
Party to anywhere near a level that allows the party to justifiably
claim to represent Maori. Labour, on the other hand, do have such a
mandate. As chair of the Labour Maori caucus, Willie Jackson can
quite clearly justify the mantle of Maori political leadership.
It is equally interesting to see the political parties most fervently
opposing co-governance as contained in the water forms legislation
(NZF and ACT) have leaders that have Maori ancestry. The mass media
don't seem to consider this an issue worth exploring - that the
'opposition to co-governance' is led my Maori.
The elites want confusion and division so that they can rule, grab power and >money.
Last year John Bowes posted (from memory) that the average Maori was angry
at this co-governace water issue.
The mass media are almost incapable or unwilling to dig into any serious >topics. So we have the alternatives springing up like weeds in the garden
and the Government trying to shut them down. Freedom of speech is under >attack.
On 5 Oct 2023 23:59:24 GMT, Gordon <Gor...@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
On 2023-10-05, Crash <nog...@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
I have seen a number of instances where the leadership of this partyIt is important that elites (who want power, money and control) are a small >group which exists in any race. When using Maori and Co-governence together >it is important to make the distinction that not all Maori are elites.
(Rawiri Waititi, Debbie Ngarewa-Parker or John Tamahere) claim to
speak on behalf of Maori. They do not. While Waititi is the member
for Waiariki, he did so with a vote count of 12,389, from a total of
27,699. Because the electionresults website does not list the party
affiliation of candidates (I knew Waititi was the Maori Party
candidate in Waiariki) it is not easy to see how well Maori party
candidates did in the other Maori electorates.
What is clear though is that Maori voters did not support the Maori
Party to anywhere near a level that allows the party to justifiably
claim to represent Maori. Labour, on the other hand, do have such a
mandate. As chair of the Labour Maori caucus, Willie Jackson can
quite clearly justify the mantle of Maori political leadership.
It is equally interesting to see the political parties most fervently
opposing co-governance as contained in the water forms legislation
(NZF and ACT) have leaders that have Maori ancestry. The mass media
don't seem to consider this an issue worth exploring - that the
'opposition to co-governance' is led my Maori.
The elites want confusion and division so that they can rule, grab power and
money.
In the culture brought to NZ by the colonists, everyone has a chance
at making it to 'elite status. You can inherit it with wealth, or you
can earn it with wealth and/or through democratic election. in Maori
culture it is not clear to me whether they knew of the concept of
voting and elections.
Last year John Bowes posted (from memory) that the average Maori was angry >at this co-governace water issue.
Angry about what though?
The mass media are almost incapable or unwilling to dig into any serious >topics. So we have the alternatives springing up like weeds in the garden >and the Government trying to shut them down. Freedom of speech is under >attack.--
Crash McBash
On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 2:03:34?PM UTC+13, Crash wrote:
On 5 Oct 2023 23:59:24 GMT, Gordon <Gor...@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
On 2023-10-05, Crash <nog...@dontbother.invalid> wrote:In the culture brought to NZ by the colonists, everyone has a chance
I have seen a number of instances where the leadership of this partyIt is important that elites (who want power, money and control) are a small >> >group which exists in any race. When using Maori and Co-governence together >> >it is important to make the distinction that not all Maori are elites.
(Rawiri Waititi, Debbie Ngarewa-Parker or John Tamahere) claim to
speak on behalf of Maori. They do not. While Waititi is the member
for Waiariki, he did so with a vote count of 12,389, from a total of
27,699. Because the electionresults website does not list the party
affiliation of candidates (I knew Waititi was the Maori Party
candidate in Waiariki) it is not easy to see how well Maori party
candidates did in the other Maori electorates.
What is clear though is that Maori voters did not support the Maori
Party to anywhere near a level that allows the party to justifiably
claim to represent Maori. Labour, on the other hand, do have such a
mandate. As chair of the Labour Maori caucus, Willie Jackson can
quite clearly justify the mantle of Maori political leadership.
It is equally interesting to see the political parties most fervently
opposing co-governance as contained in the water forms legislation
(NZF and ACT) have leaders that have Maori ancestry. The mass media
don't seem to consider this an issue worth exploring - that the
'opposition to co-governance' is led my Maori.
The elites want confusion and division so that they can rule, grab power and
money.
at making it to 'elite status. You can inherit it with wealth, or you
can earn it with wealth and/or through democratic election. in Maori
culture it is not clear to me whether they knew of the concept of
voting and elections.
Last year John Bowes posted (from memory) that the average Maori was angry >> >at this co-governace water issue.Angry about what though?
Angry that it would only benefit the Maori elite.
They saw it as an attack on democracy as well!
The mass media are almost incapable or unwilling to dig into any serious--
topics. So we have the alternatives springing up like weeds in the garden >> >and the Government trying to shut them down. Freedom of speech is under
attack.
Crash McBash
On Thu, 5 Oct 2023 18:37:45 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
<bowes...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 2:03:34?PM UTC+13, Crash wrote:
On 5 Oct 2023 23:59:24 GMT, Gordon <Gor...@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
On 2023-10-05, Crash <nog...@dontbother.invalid> wrote:In the culture brought to NZ by the colonists, everyone has a chance
I have seen a number of instances where the leadership of this party >> >> (Rawiri Waititi, Debbie Ngarewa-Parker or John Tamahere) claim toIt is important that elites (who want power, money and control) are a small
speak on behalf of Maori. They do not. While Waititi is the member
for Waiariki, he did so with a vote count of 12,389, from a total of >> >> 27,699. Because the electionresults website does not list the party
affiliation of candidates (I knew Waititi was the Maori Party
candidate in Waiariki) it is not easy to see how well Maori party
candidates did in the other Maori electorates.
What is clear though is that Maori voters did not support the Maori
Party to anywhere near a level that allows the party to justifiably
claim to represent Maori. Labour, on the other hand, do have such a
mandate. As chair of the Labour Maori caucus, Willie Jackson can
quite clearly justify the mantle of Maori political leadership.
It is equally interesting to see the political parties most fervently >> >> opposing co-governance as contained in the water forms legislation
(NZF and ACT) have leaders that have Maori ancestry. The mass media
don't seem to consider this an issue worth exploring - that the
'opposition to co-governance' is led my Maori.
group which exists in any race. When using Maori and Co-governence together
it is important to make the distinction that not all Maori are elites. >> >
The elites want confusion and division so that they can rule, grab power and
money.
at making it to 'elite status. You can inherit it with wealth, or you
can earn it with wealth and/or through democratic election. in Maori
culture it is not clear to me whether they knew of the concept of
voting and elections.
Last year John Bowes posted (from memory) that the average Maori was angryAngry about what though?
at this co-governace water issue.
Angry that it would only benefit the Maori elite.So, how does a Maori join that elite?
They saw it as an attack on democracy as well!
Maori culture has no concept of elected leadership - unless someone
can credibly demonstrate otherwise. Maori leadership is therefore not directly connected to ordinary Maori (whether they are urban or iwi-connected).
--The mass media are almost incapable or unwilling to dig into any serious >> >topics. So we have the alternatives springing up like weeds in the garden--
and the Government trying to shut them down. Freedom of speech is under >> >attack.
Crash McBash
Crash McBash
On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 3:57:54 PM UTC+13, Crash wrote:
On Thu, 5 Oct 2023 18:37:45 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
<bowes...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 2:03:34?PM UTC+13, Crash wrote:
On 5 Oct 2023 23:59:24 GMT, Gordon <Gor...@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
On 2023-10-05, Crash <nog...@dontbother.invalid> wrote:In the culture brought to NZ by the colonists, everyone has a chance
I have seen a number of instances where the leadership of this party >> >> (Rawiri Waititi, Debbie Ngarewa-Parker or John Tamahere) claim toIt is important that elites (who want power, money and control) are a small
speak on behalf of Maori. They do not. While Waititi is the member >> >> for Waiariki, he did so with a vote count of 12,389, from a total of >> >> 27,699. Because the electionresults website does not list the party >> >> affiliation of candidates (I knew Waititi was the Maori Party
candidate in Waiariki) it is not easy to see how well Maori party
candidates did in the other Maori electorates.
What is clear though is that Maori voters did not support the Maori >> >> Party to anywhere near a level that allows the party to justifiably >> >> claim to represent Maori. Labour, on the other hand, do have such a >> >> mandate. As chair of the Labour Maori caucus, Willie Jackson can
quite clearly justify the mantle of Maori political leadership.
It is equally interesting to see the political parties most fervently
opposing co-governance as contained in the water forms legislation >> >> (NZF and ACT) have leaders that have Maori ancestry. The mass media >> >> don't seem to consider this an issue worth exploring - that the
'opposition to co-governance' is led my Maori.
group which exists in any race. When using Maori and Co-governence together
it is important to make the distinction that not all Maori are elites. >> >
The elites want confusion and division so that they can rule, grab power and
money.
at making it to 'elite status. You can inherit it with wealth, or you >> can earn it with wealth and/or through democratic election. in Maori
culture it is not clear to me whether they knew of the concept of
voting and elections.
Last year John Bowes posted (from memory) that the average Maori was angryAngry about what though?
at this co-governace water issue.
I suspect by birth or by service. Not all are like Willie Jackson or John Tamahere or Mahuta. I'll try and remember to ask next time I'm with those who may be able to answer my question.Angry that it would only benefit the Maori elite.So, how does a Maori join that elite?
They saw it as an attack on democracy as well!
Maori culture has no concept of elected leadership - unless someone
can credibly demonstrate otherwise. Maori leadership is therefore not directly connected to ordinary Maori (whether they are urban or iwi-connected).
Before Europeans arrived I'm pretty sure any elite got their by hard work and earning mana. Many disparage Maori from the 1820's as being stone age savages but ignore the fact they picked up on a lot of 'coloniser' practices like kingitanga pretty damnquickly :)
--The mass media are almost incapable or unwilling to dig into any serious--
topics. So we have the alternatives springing up like weeds in the garden
and the Government trying to shut them down. Freedom of speech is under
attack.
Crash McBash
Crash McBash
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