• Covid - Sweden's response

    From Gordon@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 5 04:00:28 2023
    Apologies if some view this as off topic, but I found it interesting.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC5AG7JDUfY

    "The Swedish government's decision to forgo lockdowns as most of Europe, Asia,
    and North America's political leaders forcibly closed businesses and schools in the early days of the pandemic became one of the most controversial COVID policies of 2020.

    The New York Times in April 2020 designated Sweden "the world's cautionary tale," and President Donald Trump proclaimed that "Sweden is paying heavily
    for its decision not to lockdown" as an early wave of COVID deaths hit
    Sweden harder than its Nordic neighbors.

    But to Swedish officials, "it looked like it was other countries that were engaging in a dangerous experiment," writes Cato Institute senior fellow
    Johan Norberg in a policy paper entitled "Sweden during the pandemic:
    Pariah or paragon?"

    The attacks on Sweden's laissez-faire approach were short-sighted,
    says Norberg. Today, Sweden's COVID-19 death rate is not an
    outlier, and its excess death rate from 2020 to the present is
    the lowest in Europe.

    In a retrospective report on the country's pandemic response,
    Sweden's public health officials say that they should have
    more aggressively protected senior citizens and tested and quarantined travelers from COVID hotspots in those early days, but consider the
    focus on public health recommendations that people can "follow voluntarily" over coercive lockdowns was "fundamentally correct."

    Norberg also points out that Sweden avoided the economic contraction
    that its neighboring countries suffered, as well as the learning loss experienced in countries that closed schools for months or even years.

    Unquote

    This is long 84 mins.

    The second half (41 mins on) is much more about the political system in
    Sweden in General along with the recent history.

    The world really needs to thank Sweden for being the control sample.

    When viewing this thinking back to how NZ did it does indeed show a good contrast.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to Gordon on Thu Oct 5 18:00:56 2023
    On 5 Oct 2023 04:00:28 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:

    Apologies if some view this as off topic, but I found it interesting.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC5AG7JDUfY

    "The Swedish government's decision to forgo lockdowns as most of Europe, Asia,
    and North America's political leaders forcibly closed businesses and schools
    in the early days of the pandemic became one of the most controversial COVID >policies of 2020.

    The New York Times in April 2020 designated Sweden "the world's cautionary >tale," and President Donald Trump proclaimed that "Sweden is paying heavily >for its decision not to lockdown" as an early wave of COVID deaths hit
    Sweden harder than its Nordic neighbors.

    But to Swedish officials, "it looked like it was other countries that were >engaging in a dangerous experiment," writes Cato Institute senior fellow >Johan Norberg in a policy paper entitled "Sweden during the pandemic:
    Pariah or paragon?"

    The attacks on Sweden's laissez-faire approach were short-sighted,
    says Norberg. Today, Sweden's COVID-19 death rate is not an
    outlier, and its excess death rate from 2020 to the present is
    the lowest in Europe.

    In a retrospective report on the country's pandemic response,
    Sweden's public health officials say that they should have
    more aggressively protected senior citizens and tested and quarantined >travelers from COVID hotspots in those early days, but consider the
    focus on public health recommendations that people can "follow voluntarily" >over coercive lockdowns was "fundamentally correct."

    Norberg also points out that Sweden avoided the economic contraction
    that its neighboring countries suffered, as well as the learning loss >experienced in countries that closed schools for months or even years.

    Unquote

    This is long 84 mins.

    The second half (41 mins on) is much more about the political system in >Sweden in General along with the recent history.

    The world really needs to thank Sweden for being the control sample.

    When viewing this thinking back to how NZ did it does indeed show a good >contrast.

    On 2 October in a similar thread I posted this:

    What we do know is that, in the absence of a lot of scientific
    knowledge, doctors and governments had to make choices on limited
    information, and for various reasons, not always totally as a result
    of those decisions, different countries had different results.

    One of the results is the estimated cumulative excess deaths per
    100,000 people during Covid. Those numbers continue to change, but
    using the most recent data, results so far (and again, Covid has not
    yet disappeared) we have:
    (Central estimates for excess deaths per 100,000 people): https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-deaths-cumulative-per-100k-economist?tab=chart&facet=none&country=NZL~SWE~USA~AUS~FRA~DEU~NOR

    United States 402
    Germany 302
    France 219
    Sweden 184
    Norway 167
    Australia 121
    New Zealand 2

    So over the whole period (until the end of September this year) Norway
    had lower deaths than Sweden, but New Zealand results are
    significantly better than all those of all European countries.
    Comparing New Zealand results with that of New Zealand; if we had
    their death rate we would have experienced 9506 additional deaths
    arising from Covid. How many additional deaths would you have seen as acceptable, Gordon?

    Covid, and Covid deaths have of course not stopped in New Zealand or
    elsewhere, but we continue to well as far as avoiding deaths is
    concerned. Were a new more infectious and/or deadly virus to emerge,
    we may well have react slightly differently from when Covid emerged,
    but I hope that we would give ourselves time to avoid high death
    rates; time to assess whether a different virus requires a different
    reaction; but we can be very thankful that we had a government that
    cared about lives, and at the same time gave us a very quick economic
    recovery as well.
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    So Norway had lower excess deaths than Sweden - Norway held lock-downs
    for longer - from the url above it is fairly easy to compare the
    progress of rates for the two countries, and to change countries in
    the comparison.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Willy Nilly@21:1/5 to Rich80105@hotmail.com on Sat Oct 7 05:13:52 2023
    On Thu, 05 Oct 2023, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    New Zealand 2

    That's because NZ hides their eyes, Rich. Here's a list of plausible
    NZ vaxx deaths from https://nzdsos.com/2022/05/24/deaths-following-c-19-vaccination/

    Surnames are redacted in the list but are provided to MPs & police:

    Timothy, 33, Paraparaumu. Died of heart attack at home 2 days after
    jab.

    Janice, 35, Taupare, healthy, found dead in bathroom approx 12 days
    after shot..

    Aneela, in 30s, died suddenly during childbirth in Auckland, a week
    prior had her jab. She was found to have blood clots. Her baby was
    delivered by caesarean and died at 4 days.

    Piotr, 53, Auckland. Found dead by his mother sometime shortly after
    first dose. Unexplained

    Tongan couple, South Auckland, BOTH died mid-March 2021, within 12
    hours of each other. 5 children left who have been awarded
    compensation during teenage years. Names withheld. Lawyers confirm the
    case.

    Harry, 76, died of heart attack on the day of 1st vaccine. Leaves wife
    and 4 children.

    Moana age 39. Died 4 days post jab in Whangarei in Sept 2021. Cause of
    death blood clot/brain aneurysm.

    Martin, 62, Auckland. Advised that coroner confirmed verbally was a post-vaccine death but refused to put in writing or report to CARM.
    Leaves a devastated family.

    Ruth, 57, Dunedin, teenagers found mum dead in bed 12 hours after
    first dose. Massive brain bleed.

    Simon, 59, heart attack in August ’21, sudden after first shot, no
    prior issues. Rugby mad.

    Phillip, 50s. Hamilton, died 25/8/21, 2 days after 1st jab. Body sent
    away for cremation, “hushed up” according to family.

    Ray, 52, Auckland. Died 26/5/21, post first vax. Well-controlled
    diabetic. Found slumped at computer, undrunk cup of tea next to him.

    Joe, 41, of Auckland. Found dead by police a week after his first
    dose. Very unexpected.

    Frith, 79, massive stroke 2 days after 2nd dose. Some chronic
    conditions but stable.

    Willy, 66, Auckland, died June 21. Healthy fit man, sudden death,
    heart attack 3 days after 2nd shot. Found on floor, died alone.

    Ashley, 70s, Auckland. Brain bleed 2 days after 2nd dose 14/8/21.
    Family dissuaded from PM.

    Violet, 72, Napier, died of brain bleed on 14/6/21. 2 days after 2nd
    jab. Vaccinator in family so CARM report not submitted.

    Martin, 65, Papakura, 5 days after 1st shot, died of multiple blood
    clots in brain . Fit outdoorsman

    Jake, 51, died 30/12/21 at home post jab in Dunedin, neighbour had
    noted slurred speech ? Stroke.

    Curtis, 71, Wellsford , unexpected sudden death at home 3 days after
    jab.

    Mike, 47, Wanaka. Suddenly died at work, unknown cause, 3 days after
    1st jab. Family said they have been gagged, but believe vaccine killed
    him.

    Matt, 59, Masterton, died whilst logging , one week after 1st or 2nd
    jab. Heart attack.

    Basil, 57, Queenstown truck driver, heart attack 5 days after his
    first vax too. Doctors denied autopsy request. Concern expressed that
    his vax death was covered up.

    Ngaire, 64, Dannevirke. Died in hospital several weeks after 2nd shot, neurological symptoms. Previously well.

    Max, 49, Christchurch, sudden death at work May ’22 after 2nd jab.

    Keith, 68, Canterbury, fell off a ladder sometime after booster, but
    autopsy showed no injuries to explain his death. Perhaps cardiac
    arrest or stroke leading to the fall?

    Maureen, 61, Timaru in Feb ’22. Progressively unwell after each jab,
    had booster tho extremely fearful, died 2 weeks following this. Some preconditions but obvious decline after 1st shot.

    Gregory 57, long term hospitalised, 7 days after 1st, sudden death.
    IHC patient, lacked capacity to consent.

    Horace, 91. Elderly but stable. Severe stroke within 24 hours of vax,
    died 4 days later in Rotorua hospital.

    Ivan, 75 of Turangi, in Jan ’22. Healthy man, collapsed and died in
    the bush after booster. Family calling for painstaking investigation.

    Merv, 50s, of Taranaki. Healthy but died in sleep sometime after 2nd
    shot. Well people dying unexpectedly in sleep is unusual but not the
    number in this list.

    Elizabeth, 65, a nurse, collapsed from blood clots only hours after
    first jab in April ’21. Allegedly a senior medical civil servant rang
    her workmates to say it was the flu jab. They knew otherwise. This
    might be fraud if so.

    Robynne, 57, of Foxton, suddenly died day following booster,
    unexpected.

    Karl, 63, Fielding, died 2 weeks after 2nd shot of heart attack.

    Maggie age 69, died July ’21, 6 weeks after 2nd jab. Had a common
    clotting disorder called factor V Leiden. Usually well. Had a heart
    attack and multiple partial strokes. Clinical trials did not include
    inherited blood disorders.

    Hohepa, age 67, Northland, ex NZDF, collapsed and died at work the day
    after 1st jab. Workmates forbidden to talk. His DHB did vaccination
    drive shortly following his death.

    Colleen, 61, counsellor. Admitted immediately after 2nd jab, feeling
    of dread. Healthy woman. Died of massive stroke (brain bleed or clot)

    Riki, 60s, Dargaville, Died following his jab, the same day. In his
    wheelchair with a cup of tea. Medical centre alleged to have told
    family to keep quiet.

    Roger, 63, of Northland. Died 2 days after 2nd jab this January.

    Helena, also 63, of Remuera, died the night after her 2nd jab.
    Newspaper printed this then removed it. 9 day scene exam by Police but
    no charges laid. She managed rollout for a DHB.

    Katie age 13. Died October 2021 in the arms of a camp helper about a
    week following her first jab. Cause of death myocarditis, initially
    diagnosed and treated as asthma by GP.

    Allen Tardrew age 52. Bay of Islands. Especially poignant. Died 13 Dec
    2021 First jab at pop up tent 1/11/21, noticed heart irregularity
    immediately, suffered Severe heart attack about 4.5 wks later. 2 days
    in hospital where he told Dr his suspicions but Dr disagreed, was
    released & died 3 days later. He asked friend to make his case heard
    when he died!

    Susan age 41. Hokianga. Had first jab May 2021 and found dead in bed 4
    days later. Cause of death 3 blood clots in L lung, blood clot in
    aorta. Coroner has just ruled “coincidental”.

    Robert age 21. Northland. Died Oct 2021 1-2 days after jab. Cause of
    death brain bleed and cardiac arrest. Fit and healthy active man.

    Paul age 52. Died Oct 2021 2 weeks after jab. Found dead in truck
    sleeper cab.

    Simon age in his 50s. Usually healthy. Died suddenly at work in
    October 2021, of heart failure shortly after vaccination. Details of
    dates not available.

    Aio age 16. Whangarei school girl. Died Dec 2021 2 weeks after jab
    from brain bleed and blood clots. Some hospital staff agreed privately
    that vaccine had killed her according to family members.

    Isabella Alexander age 17. Died Sept 2021. Cause of death multiple
    blood clots. Collapsed in father’s arms out running. Had felt unwell
    since a week after 1st jab. 3 days later PM told nation on TV that it
    was not the jab. Coroner still not reported as of writing, 9 months
    later.

    Grace age 23/24. Died Sept 2021. Cause of death blood clots. Had
    second jab 10 days prior, unwell after, small seizures, last seizure
    neck broke during and a friend found her purple on bathroom floor,
    dead. Hospital denying, saying “it couldn’t have been the vaccine”.
    Why on earth not?

    Karl age 33. Died 17 May 2021. Intellectual handicap, died in his
    sleep sometime after first jab.

    Annabelle age 38. Died two hours after 2nd jab in Sept 2021, was a
    care worker and no choice – doctors declared bad reaction to covid
    shot caused blood to clot. Allegedly, hospital agreed the jab killed
    her but asked family to sign a gag order.

    Vaj age 37. health care worker, cause of death massive brain bleed.
    Body shipped to India shortly after death. Had been vaccinated in
    order to travel to see girlfriend in Australia.

    Bryan age 57. Died suddenly Aug 2021 a few weeks after vaccine, clot
    in the brain. Well known in hospitality industry.

    Val age 44, shortly after her 2nd or booster shot. Went for drive with
    parents, suddenly felt unwell then died in the car.

    Maggie age 47, after death coroner said she should not have had the
    booster due to immune compromise. Was immediately ill following and
    declined over 2 weeks.

    Rawiri age 51, 2 days after 1st jab. Truckie, suddenly went pale
    immediately after injection. and later died. Sudden brain bleed,
    blamed on recent minor head bump.

    Joy 67, 5 days after 2nd jab, Pahiatua, where several other post vax
    deaths noted.

    Gladys age 66, Taupo. 1 month after 2nd jab, found dead 30 mins after
    went to fetch firewood. Police and a Dr attended, who said no to a
    post mortem.

    Valerie 31, Hamilton. Rest home nurse, sudden cardiac arrest 2 weeks
    after booster.

    Seamus, age 54. Sudden unexpected heart attack post jab, putting on
    6th green. Married 27 years.

    Bev in her 60s, developed severe autoimmune condition after 2nd dose,
    admitted hospital and died after a month.

    Mark, age 52, sudden death in sleep following 2nd jab. Leaves 2
    children and many sad colleagues at work.

    Jane 56, sudden death following 2nd vaccine, in Jan ’22. Admired elder
    care worker.

    Gavin, 30, of Napier. 3 weeks after 1st jab, sudden death at home,
    Police queried accident but was no evidence. Autopsy was inconclusive. Myocarditis can present as sudden cardiac arrest.

    Robbie , male age 17, Hawkes Bay. 2 days after 1st shot. Few details
    but strong confirmation on local FB group.

    Bonnie, 42 of Napier. Sudden unexpected death 2 months following 2nd
    vaccine. In-home carer, mandated vax. Cremated before autopsy could be
    done. 4 children.

    Roger, age 44. Body pains following 2nd jab. A month after his booster developed a rattly chest. GP said he was fine, he died 2 hours later.
    Family asked for autopsy.

    Byron of Mount Manganui, in his 40s, sudden heart attack days after
    his booster.

    Connie, 46, died 1 day after 1st shot, sudden and unexpected.

    Bruce, age 65, popular doctor. Died suddenly after likely booster
    December 2021.

    Alyss age 31. Allegedly coerced by GP, headache on day 1, had a brain
    bleed day 10 and died next day.

    Allen, age 70, retired medical specialist. Fatal myocarditis after 2nd
    shot. A hospital specialist agreed was the vaccine.

    Sean, age 26. Rugby player. Unwell since 1st jab but mandated 2nd .
    Died shortly after low-speed impact of work vehicle against a tree,
    possible brain or heart event. Found away from the car. Airbags not
    deployed. Media said suicide by MVA, but no history or corroboration
    from family, no autopsy or OSH investigation, both highly irregular.

    Paula, 62, of Rotorua. Very unwell after 1st jab, died the day after
    her 2nd jab. Blood clots in legs.

    Wallace, 50, sudden cardiac arrest a week after 1st jab. Work
    colleagues allegedly told “it COULDN’T be the jab” by the boss, who is
    not known to be a doctor.

    Anau, age 53, sudden heart attack day after 1st jab. Gentle Tongan
    man, leaves 2 kids and grandkids.

    Ruha, in 50s, of Tauranga, died suddenly day following 2nd jab in
    August ’21.

    Daniel, middle-aged man, port worker, reported by colleague as
    allegedly a ‘spate of deaths there’. Chest pains after 2nd jab, sent
    home from work, died hours later.

    Don, age 73, also of Tauranga port. Mandated vax to keep job, died
    suddenly 2 days after 1st jab, 16th March 2021.

    Alex, age 25. Mandated by Countdown supermarket, strong, a body
    builder, died in sleep shortly after 1st jab.

    John, 70s, radio presenter. Died before going on air. Colleague said
    he felt unwell, wanted a rest, put head on desk and just died. Some
    weeks after 2nd or booster jab, in April 22. Like all these deaths,
    Bruce was part of a clinical trial and his death demands detailed
    investigation “in case” – of risks to others, and for possible
    compensation.

    Satya, in 40s, died in her sleep in Manurewa. Mandated masseur. Mother
    of 3.

    Ana, 43, also of Manurewa, and died 2 days later late march ’22,
    shortly after her booster. Heart attack during sleep.

    Lefty, 23, of Mt Wellington. Major seizures following 2nd jab,
    including a fatal one in his sleep in Feb ’22. Known occasional
    seizures but control worsened markedly after jabs began. Autopsy
    result cause of death simply “complications of epilepsy”. No
    epileptics were included in the Pfizer trials.

    Jack, in his 30s, of Auckland, died suddenly early ’22 after 2nd jab.

    Corey, 26, sudden death after 2nd jab, same week as Jack, both
    mandated by traffic management company.

    Tonya, in her 50s, fatal heart inflammation. Admitted Auckland
    hospital with breathing trouble 2 weeks following booster, fluid round
    heart (?pericarditis or heart failure), died after 2 days.

    Kath, 40s, shortly after booster. Registered nurse. Died suddenly Jan
    22.

    Amanda, 46, call centre in Auckland. Went to hospital after jab,
    cardiac arrest x2, then discharged on blood thinners only to die at
    home on early Jan 22.

    Sitia, aged 30, father of two, week after 2nd jab sudden death. Family devastated.

    Adam, age 19, S. Auckland. 18 days after 1st vax, in November 2021.

    Jon, in 50s, double vaxxed and then got covid, died while isolating in
    Auckland . Family know but afraid of recriminations if complain. Post
    mortem research on covd-19 victims shows higher tissue levels of spike
    protein in the vaccinated, implying poorer immunity. This may be antibody-dependent enhancement ( ADE).

    Graham, 65, slim and fit, unexpected fatal heart attack, 2 weeks after
    2nd jab. Friend reported death as all family very pro jab.

    Stephen, 62, of Red Beach. Had beaten cancer. Unexpected sudden heart
    attack 3 weeks after 2nd dose. 2 daughters.

    Elena, 64, health care worker. Fit healthy woman. Sudden heart attack
    12 days after second shot.

    Sonny age 41, found dead a week after first dose in Auckland.
    ‘Suspected heart attack.’

    Cathryn, 42, teacher in Palmerston North. Sudden death in sleep in
    March ’22. She was vaccinated at least 2 doses, part of the ongoing
    phase 3 clinical trial that all recipients are in, though most
    unaware.

    Cheryl, 40-something, of Masterton, sudden death in April ’22.
    Mandated jabs at workplace, and recent booster.

    Jason, early 20s, mandated to study, sudden death at Uni in March
    ‘2022 . leaves large number of siblings.

    Liam, age 17, in Dunedin, died after rapid onset rare autoimmune
    disease following vaccination, however death in hospital was
    unexpected.

    Mark, 47, Dunedin, unexpected suicide early 2022. Acute mental health
    symptoms must be investigated properly, some treatments can cause
    depression and suicidality.

    Brian, Nelson, 46, both jabs then sudden onset pancreatic cancer and
    rapid death. Around 21st Jan 2022. Cancer may have been present but
    dormant or slow growing. Needs investigating as the vaccine disables
    cancer protection genes and immune defences.

    Candy age 17, sudden illness and death ICU following first jab.
    Already disabled but developed severe seizures post jab.

    Esra, 55, Christchurch. Died March 2022. Back pain immediately
    following 1st jab August 2021. Relentlessly worsened, but disbelieved.
    Died in palliative care.

    Jason, 44, of Wellington died 24th Jan 2022 whilst moving furniture
    for shift. Brain bleed.

    Richard, aged 18, got a rare and rapid spinal tumour that spread
    fatally. Died January 2022. Gene injection known to disable cancer
    protection genes as above.

    Melvyn, 63 of Auckland, died after very rapid cancer illness, double
    vaxxed. Again, new and especially aggressive rapid cancers must be
    investigated for causation.

    James, age 70, Queenstown. Had his booster and dropped dead the next
    day. Healthy vegetarian.

    Peter age 55. Dunedin. Fit and healthy. Sudden massive blood clot from
    heart to brain in the week following 2nd jab. Life support turned off
    October ’21.

    Douggie age 58, transport worker from Dunedin. Died 10 days after 2nd
    jab, from “unexplained” multiple bleeds in October 2021.

    Grant, 62 of Queenstown, CEO, in April 2022, sometime following 2nd
    jab, sudden death out walking.

    Angela, 30s, barista, sudden death TWO DAYS after booster, April ’22.
    left 2 children.

    Julio, age 19, Feb ’22. Known epilepsy but had a seizure and DIED 2
    HOURS AFTER 2nd jab. Shouldn’t this be investigated? All medical
    conditions were excluded from clinical trials.

    Steffy, age 20, Dunedin. Disabling side effects, felt abandoned and
    ignored by hospital system, committed suicide. Past mental health
    history or not, this is another tragedy, potentially avoidable.

    Girelle, age 58, died of myocarditis, 5 days after the shot. On
    15/9/21

    Harry, 40s, Dunedin. died suddenly hours after first jab. Sudden
    seizure/death whilst walking.

    Carlos, age 50, September ’21 at the beach whilst surfing. Medical
    event suspected, the day following his first jab. No co-morbidities.

    Dave, age 43, Timaru. Died suddenly at home following 2nd jab. Health
    and fitness professional.

    Stefan, age 54, Lyttleton, paralysed a few days after booster.
    Emergency operation to remove a clot in neck partially successful but re-clotted and declared brain dead in February 2022.

    James, age 63, Christchurch. Chest pain and breathless day after
    booster, day following that he died. 23rd December 2021. Family
    divided on cause so unlikely reported to CARM.

    Claire, 33, Christchurch, sudden post vaccine death just after Xmas
    day 2021. Shocking and sudden. Mandated by elder care company.

    Annabelle, age 51, at home in Christchurch, found dead in bed in
    October 2021 by partner. Had 2nd jab 2-3 days before.

    Clarice, 54, Rangiora, died 3 weeks after 2nd jab. Sudden. Leaves 6
    children.

    William, 57, Timaru. Died from apparent heart attack 2 days after
    first shot.

    David, 46, teacher, died in Christchurch hospital, 2 days after 1st
    jab, massive heart attack.

    Bryce, age 58, Canterbury. 9 days after 1st jab, from heart attack.
    Symptoms started day 2, previously fit and well man.

    Bryn, age 65, Christchurch. Pilot, had a brain bleed one week
    following his first jab. Regular checkups, not known to have had an
    aneurysm, but had a bad 2 day headache 3 weeks prior so this was
    blamed. This might not be a vaccine injury, or it could be related.
    Only painstaking investigation can answer this.

    Clive, Christchurch, in his 70s but told by specialist the week prior
    he had many years left in him. First vax on 21/7/21, immediate
    headache, felt he would die, did do that night in hospital.

    Susanne, age 67. Breathing issues following first jab, collapsed in
    her bathroom, died a week later July ’21.

    Jane age 50. Broke ankle the week before her jab, so this blamed as
    she was in a cast. Died from a blood clot, presumably from her calf
    travelling to the heart or lungs. May ’21. Worked at a Medical Centre.

    Jim of West Coast. Age 56. 3 days after booster he suddenly died
    Christmas 2021.

    Alistair, age 62, Westland dairy farmer. A large stroke (brain clot or
    bleed) 7 days after first jab. Life support turned off after 24 hours.

    Timothy, 60s, West Coast, died out walking on 28/6/21 just 3 HOURS
    after 1st jab from a heart attack. Was fit.

    Chris, age 37, kayaker and adventurer. “Heart attack” just hours after
    booster, January ’22.

    Kenneth, 64 of Motueka, on 27/5/21. Doctor had given clean bill of
    health to have the vaccine. Died 2 weeks after 2nd covid jab, became
    dizzy 3 days before death. Cardiac blood clot on autopsy.

    Harriet, 65 of Picton. Died suddenly from a stroke whilst teaching,
    just 2 days after her first jab.

    Mal, age 60. Fit rugby ref, got both vaccines to attend his gym.
    Sudden medical event on March ’22.

    Nigel, in his 40s, fully vaccinated when swam the Cook straight.
    Collapsed and died immediately afterwards.

    Bryan, age 45, Carterton. Bizarre work accident, pre-existing
    neurological issue but worsened markedly to alleged severe cognitive
    decline and fell out of a loader. Early 2022. Both jabs as was
    mandated. Did OSH thoroughly investigate the RMP and possible jab
    involvement?

    Nikau, 40s, Kapiti Coast, dad, entertainer. Sudden death Jan ’21 about
    3 weeks after 2nd jab. Had just attended a tangi for another possible
    vax victim.

    Donna age 61, Hutt valley. Mandated by her employer, where she died
    suddenly serving a customer. She had visited hospital with heart
    symptoms after 2nd jab but was released.

    Deborah, worked with animals, suddenly November 2021. Complained of
    brain fog after 2nd jab. Suicide 1 month later. Brain
    damage/inflammation can cause depression. Hard to rule out on routine
    autopsy.

    Randy, 56, Paraparaumu. Collapsed at the mall day after 2nd jab, brain
    bleed. Leaves 3 girls.

    Kathy, age 53, Kapiti. Sudden large brain bleed, died after 2nd jab.
    Adored family woman.

    Morty, Karori, age 21. Sudden medical event at home after the first
    jab, details sparse though.

    Florence, 42, Wellington. Unexpected fatal brain blood clot sometime
    after 1st jab on 16/7/21. Health care worker.

    Hettie, age 50, Pahiatua. Unexpected death March 2022. Just had 2nd or
    booster. Had an inherited neuromuscular disorder that was not assessed
    in the brief Pfizer trial before roll-out. One of your authors has the
    same condition.

    Lousia, 67, Manawatu. Known heart issues prior but cardiologist
    assured would be safe and effective for her as she was scared to be
    jabbed. She collapsed the same morning and died in ED later that day.

    Anne, 42. Invercargill. Fit and healthy. Sat up in bed with a head
    rush then just died. 10 days after 2nd jab in February 2022. Autopsy
    showed no known cause.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to All on Sun Oct 8 13:13:26 2023
    On Sat, 07 Oct 2023 05:13:52 GMT, willynilly@qwert.com (Willy Nilly)
    wrote:

    On Thu, 05 Oct 2023, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    New Zealand 2

    That's because NZ hides their eyes, Rich. Here's a list of plausible
    NZ vaxx deaths from >https://nzdsos.com/2022/05/24/deaths-following-c-19-vaccination/

    Surnames are redacted in the list but are provided to MPs & police:

    The surnames were also changed in some cases; they are readily
    available at the url you have given, so to assist comments I have
    deleted them from this reply.

    First each of the deaths will have had a cause of death identified by
    the attending physician, or they will have been referred to a coroner.
    The implication that no cause of death was identified may well be
    incorrect

    You assertions do however emphasise the excellence of the response
    from our government.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/485033/it-s-been-3-years-since-covid-19-entered-new-zealand-here-are-3-ways-to-improve-our-response

    With hindsight, the first response to minimise the number of people
    coming in was good - we were lucky to be in a position to do that. The
    same strategy was taken by some states in Australia, albeit a little
    later than New Zealand; those that minimised infection in the first
    place did better overall than other states. Secondly the lock-downs
    were also the right thing to do - as was modifying a general lock down
    to regional lockdowns only as needed. In the early stages of the
    pandemic there were no vaccines of course; those early actions gave
    New Zealand time by minimising infection in those early days.

    When vaccines became available, priority was given to countries where
    either the vaccine was being manufactured or where infections rates
    were highest. That caused some concern among some New Zealanders who
    wanted the vaccine to be provided more quickly. It did however mean
    that New Zealand did not get the earliest vaccines; and we fairly
    quickly had a few different vaccines able to be used.

    Most new vaccines do have adverse results for some who receive it -
    but overall it has clearly reduced death rates; Michael Baker (one of
    the authors of the article in the link I gave above) has said recently
    that we probably saved 20,000 lives - using the same reference I have frequently used. I suspect his comparison is against the experience of
    the United States and the United Kingdom who did not generally follow
    sensible precautions - taking our population at say 5.5 million, an
    extra 400 deaths per 100,000 population (the difference between the
    USA and New Zealand (central estimates) gives 22,000 additional deaths
    that we would have had if we had the same experience as the United
    States. See https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-deaths-cumulative-per-100k-economist?tab=chart&facet=none&uniformYAxis=0&country=USA~AUS~NZL~NOR~SWE~GBR

    (You can add other countries - the USA did not have the worst
    percentage of population that died from Covid . . .)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mutley@21:1/5 to Rich80105@hotmail.com on Sun Oct 8 13:29:45 2023
    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

    On Sat, 07 Oct 2023 05:13:52 GMT, willynilly@qwert.com (Willy Nilly)
    wrote:

    On Thu, 05 Oct 2023, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    New Zealand 2

    That's because NZ hides their eyes, Rich. Here's a list of plausible
    NZ vaxx deaths from >>https://nzdsos.com/2022/05/24/deaths-following-c-19-vaccination/

    Surnames are redacted in the list but are provided to MPs & police:

    The surnames were also changed in some cases; they are readily
    available at the url you have given, so to assist comments I have
    deleted them from this reply.

    First each of the deaths will have had a cause of death identified by
    the attending physician, or they will have been referred to a coroner.
    The implication that no cause of death was identified may well be
    incorrect

    You assertions do however emphasise the excellence of the response
    from our government.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/485033/it-s-been-3-years-since-covid-19-entered-new-zealand-here-are-3-ways-to-improve-our-response

    With hindsight, the first response to minimise the number of people
    coming in was good - we were lucky to be in a position to do that. The
    same strategy was taken by some states in Australia, albeit a little
    later than New Zealand; those that minimised infection in the first
    place did better overall than other states. Secondly the lock-downs
    were also the right thing to do - as was modifying a general lock down
    to regional lockdowns only as needed. In the early stages of the
    pandemic there were no vaccines of course; those early actions gave
    New Zealand time by minimising infection in those early days.

    When vaccines became available, priority was given to countries where
    either the vaccine was being manufactured or where infections rates
    were highest. That caused some concern among some New Zealanders who
    wanted the vaccine to be provided more quickly. It did however mean
    that New Zealand did not get the earliest vaccines; and we fairly
    quickly had a few different vaccines able to be used.

    Most new vaccines do have adverse results for some who receive it -
    but overall it has clearly reduced death rates; Michael Baker (one of
    the authors of the article in the link I gave above) has said recently
    that we probably saved 20,000 lives - using the same reference I have >frequently used. I suspect his comparison is against the experience of
    the United States and the United Kingdom who did not generally follow >sensible precautions - taking our population at say 5.5 million, an
    extra 400 deaths per 100,000 population (the difference between the
    USA and New Zealand (central estimates) gives 22,000 additional deaths
    that we would have had if we had the same experience as the United
    States. See >https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-deaths-cumulative-per-100k-economist?tab=chart&facet=none&uniformYAxis=0&country=USA~AUS~NZL~NOR~SWE~GBR

    (You can add other countries - the USA did not have the worst
    percentage of population that died from Covid . . .)


    Unfortunately Willy there's no politician that has the balls now or
    with the next government to ask for an inquiry. They're all guilty of
    these deaths.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gordon@21:1/5 to Rich80105@hotmail.com on Sun Oct 8 03:11:23 2023
    On 2023-10-08, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Sat, 07 Oct 2023 05:13:52 GMT, willynilly@qwert.com (Willy Nilly)
    wrote:

    On Thu, 05 Oct 2023, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    New Zealand 2

    That's because NZ hides their eyes, Rich. Here's a list of plausible
    NZ vaxx deaths from >>https://nzdsos.com/2022/05/24/deaths-following-c-19-vaccination/

    Surnames are redacted in the list but are provided to MPs & police:

    The surnames were also changed in some cases; they are readily
    available at the url you have given, so to assist comments I have
    deleted them from this reply.

    First each of the deaths will have had a cause of death identified by
    the attending physician, or they will have been referred to a coroner.
    The implication that no cause of death was identified may well be
    incorrect

    You assertions do however emphasise the excellence of the response
    from our government.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/485033/it-s-been-3-years-since-covid-19-entered-new-zealand-here-are-3-ways-to-improve-our-response

    With hindsight, the first response to minimise the number of people
    coming in was good - we were lucky to be in a position to do that.

    Neverthe less the rule is that by the time one closes the boarder the vrius
    is with the coutry and it is on the multiply.

    It is the tracing which has an effect at cutting the virus off at the pass.

    The
    same strategy was taken by some states in Australia, albeit a little
    later than New Zealand; those that minimised infection in the first
    place did better overall than other states. Secondly the lock-downs
    were also the right thing to do - as was modifying a general lock down
    to regional lockdowns only as needed.

    Lockdowns have been shown as useless at best. As the Professor points out
    lock downs only work is you have quantrine.

    In the early stages of the
    pandemic there were no vaccines of course; those early actions gave
    New Zealand time by minimising infection in those early days.

    When vaccines became available, priority was given to countries where
    either the vaccine was being manufactured or where infections rates
    were highest. That caused some concern among some New Zealanders who
    wanted the vaccine to be provided more quickly.

    It did however mean
    that New Zealand did not get the earliest vaccines; and we fairly
    quickly had a few different vaccines able to be used.

    Nevermind that the vaccines were profit generating at best. Certainly not
    safe and effective.

    Most new vaccines do have adverse results for some who receive it -
    but overall it has clearly reduced death rates; Michael Baker (one of
    the authors of the article in the link I gave above) has said recently
    that we probably saved 20,000 lives - using the same reference I have frequently used. I suspect his comparison is against the experience of
    the United States and the United Kingdom who did not generally follow sensible precautions - taking our population at say 5.5 million, an
    extra 400 deaths per 100,000 population (the difference between the
    USA and New Zealand (central estimates) gives 22,000 additional deaths
    that we would have had if we had the same experience as the United
    States. See https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-deaths-cumulative-per-100k-economist?tab=chart&facet=none&uniformYAxis=0&country=USA~AUS~NZL~NOR~SWE~GBR

    (You can add other countries - the USA did not have the worst
    percentage of population that died from Covid . . .)

    No but it is a big country and thus 1% extra is a lot of invividuals.


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to All on Sun Oct 8 15:30:48 2023
    On Sun, 08 Oct 2023 13:29:45 +1300, Mutley <mutley2000@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

    On Sat, 07 Oct 2023 05:13:52 GMT, willynilly@qwert.com (Willy Nilly)
    wrote:

    On Thu, 05 Oct 2023, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    New Zealand 2

    That's because NZ hides their eyes, Rich. Here's a list of plausible
    NZ vaxx deaths from >>>https://nzdsos.com/2022/05/24/deaths-following-c-19-vaccination/

    Surnames are redacted in the list but are provided to MPs & police:

    The surnames were also changed in some cases; they are readily
    available at the url you have given, so to assist comments I have
    deleted them from this reply.

    First each of the deaths will have had a cause of death identified by
    the attending physician, or they will have been referred to a coroner.
    The implication that no cause of death was identified may well be
    incorrect

    You assertions do however emphasise the excellence of the response
    from our government.
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/485033/it-s-been-3-years-since-covid-19-entered-new-zealand-here-are-3-ways-to-improve-our-response

    With hindsight, the first response to minimise the number of people
    coming in was good - we were lucky to be in a position to do that. The
    same strategy was taken by some states in Australia, albeit a little
    later than New Zealand; those that minimised infection in the first
    place did better overall than other states. Secondly the lock-downs
    were also the right thing to do - as was modifying a general lock down
    to regional lockdowns only as needed. In the early stages of the
    pandemic there were no vaccines of course; those early actions gave
    New Zealand time by minimising infection in those early days.

    When vaccines became available, priority was given to countries where >>either the vaccine was being manufactured or where infections rates
    were highest. That caused some concern among some New Zealanders who
    wanted the vaccine to be provided more quickly. It did however mean
    that New Zealand did not get the earliest vaccines; and we fairly
    quickly had a few different vaccines able to be used.

    Most new vaccines do have adverse results for some who receive it -
    but overall it has clearly reduced death rates; Michael Baker (one of
    the authors of the article in the link I gave above) has said recently
    that we probably saved 20,000 lives - using the same reference I have >>frequently used. I suspect his comparison is against the experience of
    the United States and the United Kingdom who did not generally follow >>sensible precautions - taking our population at say 5.5 million, an
    extra 400 deaths per 100,000 population (the difference between the
    USA and New Zealand (central estimates) gives 22,000 additional deaths
    that we would have had if we had the same experience as the United
    States. See >>https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-deaths-cumulative-per-100k-economist?tab=chart&facet=none&uniformYAxis=0&country=USA~AUS~NZL~NOR~SWE~GBR

    (You can add other countries - the USA did not have the worst
    percentage of population that died from Covid . . .)


    Unfortunately Willy there's no politician that has the balls now or
    with the next government to ask for an inquiry. They're all guilty of
    these deaths.

    As I understand it there is an enquiry being held now. Why do you see
    the government as being responsible for the Covid pandemic - the
    deaths measured in the chart I posted were from Covid, at lower levels
    in New Zealand due to the excellent actions taken by our government,
    but the government and the Labour / Green politicians in that
    government were not responsible for the deaths.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Bowes@21:1/5 to All on Sat Oct 7 21:11:51 2023
    On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 3:30:21 PM UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
    On Sun, 08 Oct 2023 13:29:45 +1300, Mutley <mutle...@hotmail.com>
    wrote:
    Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:

    On Sat, 07 Oct 2023 05:13:52 GMT, willy...@qwert.com (Willy Nilly) >>wrote:

    On Thu, 05 Oct 2023, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
    New Zealand 2

    That's because NZ hides their eyes, Rich. Here's a list of plausible >>>NZ vaxx deaths from >>>https://nzdsos.com/2022/05/24/deaths-following-c-19-vaccination/

    Surnames are redacted in the list but are provided to MPs & police:

    The surnames were also changed in some cases; they are readily
    available at the url you have given, so to assist comments I have >>deleted them from this reply.

    First each of the deaths will have had a cause of death identified by >>the attending physician, or they will have been referred to a coroner. >>The implication that no cause of death was identified may well be >>incorrect

    You assertions do however emphasise the excellence of the response
    from our government.
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/485033/it-s-been-3-years-since-covid-19-entered-new-zealand-here-are-3-ways-to-improve-our-response

    With hindsight, the first response to minimise the number of people >>coming in was good - we were lucky to be in a position to do that. The >>same strategy was taken by some states in Australia, albeit a little >>later than New Zealand; those that minimised infection in the first >>place did better overall than other states. Secondly the lock-downs
    were also the right thing to do - as was modifying a general lock down >>to regional lockdowns only as needed. In the early stages of the >>pandemic there were no vaccines of course; those early actions gave
    New Zealand time by minimising infection in those early days.

    When vaccines became available, priority was given to countries where >>either the vaccine was being manufactured or where infections rates
    were highest. That caused some concern among some New Zealanders who >>wanted the vaccine to be provided more quickly. It did however mean
    that New Zealand did not get the earliest vaccines; and we fairly >>quickly had a few different vaccines able to be used.

    Most new vaccines do have adverse results for some who receive it -
    but overall it has clearly reduced death rates; Michael Baker (one of >>the authors of the article in the link I gave above) has said recently >>that we probably saved 20,000 lives - using the same reference I have >>frequently used. I suspect his comparison is against the experience of >>the United States and the United Kingdom who did not generally follow >>sensible precautions - taking our population at say 5.5 million, an >>extra 400 deaths per 100,000 population (the difference between the
    USA and New Zealand (central estimates) gives 22,000 additional deaths >>that we would have had if we had the same experience as the United >>States. See >>https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-deaths-cumulative-per-100k-economist?tab=chart&facet=none&uniformYAxis=0&country=USA~AUS~NZL~NOR~SWE~GBR

    (You can add other countries - the USA did not have the worst
    percentage of population that died from Covid . . .)


    Unfortunately Willy there's no politician that has the balls now or
    with the next government to ask for an inquiry. They're all guilty of >these deaths.
    As I understand it there is an enquiry being held now. Why do you see
    the government as being responsible for the Covid pandemic - the
    deaths measured in the chart I posted were from Covid, at lower levels
    in New Zealand due to the excellent actions taken by our government,
    but the government and the Labour / Green politicians in that
    government were not responsible for the deaths.
    Who's running the supposed enquiry Rich? Verrall? She did a brilliant job of writing a glowing report for Labour. So good it got her into parliament and a cabinet post! Any enquiry by the Labour party on their covid actions will be about as much use as
    this post Rich.
    After all this thread is about Sweden. Not Labours abortion of a response to covid!!!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gordon@21:1/5 to Rich80105@hotmail.com on Sun Oct 8 03:17:04 2023
    On 2023-10-08, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Sun, 08 Oct 2023 13:29:45 +1300, Mutley <mutley2000@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

    On Sat, 07 Oct 2023 05:13:52 GMT, willynilly@qwert.com (Willy Nilly) >>>wrote:

    On Thu, 05 Oct 2023, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    New Zealand 2

    That's because NZ hides their eyes, Rich. Here's a list of plausible >>>>NZ vaxx deaths from >>>>https://nzdsos.com/2022/05/24/deaths-following-c-19-vaccination/

    Surnames are redacted in the list but are provided to MPs & police:

    The surnames were also changed in some cases; they are readily
    available at the url you have given, so to assist comments I have
    deleted them from this reply.

    First each of the deaths will have had a cause of death identified by
    the attending physician, or they will have been referred to a coroner. >>>The implication that no cause of death was identified may well be >>>incorrect

    You assertions do however emphasise the excellence of the response
    from our government.
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/485033/it-s-been-3-years-since-covid-19-entered-new-zealand-here-are-3-ways-to-improve-our-response

    With hindsight, the first response to minimise the number of people >>>coming in was good - we were lucky to be in a position to do that. The >>>same strategy was taken by some states in Australia, albeit a little >>>later than New Zealand; those that minimised infection in the first
    place did better overall than other states. Secondly the lock-downs
    were also the right thing to do - as was modifying a general lock down
    to regional lockdowns only as needed. In the early stages of the
    pandemic there were no vaccines of course; those early actions gave
    New Zealand time by minimising infection in those early days.

    When vaccines became available, priority was given to countries where >>>either the vaccine was being manufactured or where infections rates
    were highest. That caused some concern among some New Zealanders who >>>wanted the vaccine to be provided more quickly. It did however mean
    that New Zealand did not get the earliest vaccines; and we fairly
    quickly had a few different vaccines able to be used.

    Most new vaccines do have adverse results for some who receive it -
    but overall it has clearly reduced death rates; Michael Baker (one of
    the authors of the article in the link I gave above) has said recently >>>that we probably saved 20,000 lives - using the same reference I have >>>frequently used. I suspect his comparison is against the experience of >>>the United States and the United Kingdom who did not generally follow >>>sensible precautions - taking our population at say 5.5 million, an
    extra 400 deaths per 100,000 population (the difference between the
    USA and New Zealand (central estimates) gives 22,000 additional deaths >>>that we would have had if we had the same experience as the United >>>States. See >>>https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-deaths-cumulative-per-100k-economist?tab=chart&facet=none&uniformYAxis=0&country=USA~AUS~NZL~NOR~SWE~GBR

    (You can add other countries - the USA did not have the worst
    percentage of population that died from Covid . . .)


    Unfortunately Willy there's no politician that has the balls now or
    with the next government to ask for an inquiry. They're all guilty of >>these deaths.

    As I understand it there is an enquiry being held now. Why do you see
    the government as being responsible for the Covid pandemic

    It was the response to, not the cause of the pandemic which has cause, is
    still causing deaths. This is why Sweden's response is so interesting.

    - the
    deaths measured in the chart I posted were from Covid, at lower levels
    in New Zealand due to the excellent actions taken by our government,
    but the government and the Labour / Green politicians in that
    government were not responsible for the deaths.

    Never your fault eh?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to Gordon on Sun Oct 8 18:04:38 2023
    On 8 Oct 2023 03:17:04 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:

    On 2023-10-08, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Sun, 08 Oct 2023 13:29:45 +1300, Mutley <mutley2000@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

    On Sat, 07 Oct 2023 05:13:52 GMT, willynilly@qwert.com (Willy Nilly) >>>>wrote:

    On Thu, 05 Oct 2023, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    New Zealand 2

    That's because NZ hides their eyes, Rich. Here's a list of plausible >>>>>NZ vaxx deaths from >>>>>https://nzdsos.com/2022/05/24/deaths-following-c-19-vaccination/

    Surnames are redacted in the list but are provided to MPs & police:

    The surnames were also changed in some cases; they are readily >>>>available at the url you have given, so to assist comments I have >>>>deleted them from this reply.

    First each of the deaths will have had a cause of death identified by >>>>the attending physician, or they will have been referred to a coroner. >>>>The implication that no cause of death was identified may well be >>>>incorrect

    You assertions do however emphasise the excellence of the response
    from our government.
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/485033/it-s-been-3-years-since-covid-19-entered-new-zealand-here-are-3-ways-to-improve-our-response

    With hindsight, the first response to minimise the number of people >>>>coming in was good - we were lucky to be in a position to do that. The >>>>same strategy was taken by some states in Australia, albeit a little >>>>later than New Zealand; those that minimised infection in the first >>>>place did better overall than other states. Secondly the lock-downs >>>>were also the right thing to do - as was modifying a general lock down >>>>to regional lockdowns only as needed. In the early stages of the >>>>pandemic there were no vaccines of course; those early actions gave
    New Zealand time by minimising infection in those early days.

    When vaccines became available, priority was given to countries where >>>>either the vaccine was being manufactured or where infections rates >>>>were highest. That caused some concern among some New Zealanders who >>>>wanted the vaccine to be provided more quickly. It did however mean >>>>that New Zealand did not get the earliest vaccines; and we fairly >>>>quickly had a few different vaccines able to be used.

    Most new vaccines do have adverse results for some who receive it -
    but overall it has clearly reduced death rates; Michael Baker (one of >>>>the authors of the article in the link I gave above) has said recently >>>>that we probably saved 20,000 lives - using the same reference I have >>>>frequently used. I suspect his comparison is against the experience of >>>>the United States and the United Kingdom who did not generally follow >>>>sensible precautions - taking our population at say 5.5 million, an >>>>extra 400 deaths per 100,000 population (the difference between the
    USA and New Zealand (central estimates) gives 22,000 additional deaths >>>>that we would have had if we had the same experience as the United >>>>States. See >>>>https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-deaths-cumulative-per-100k-economist?tab=chart&facet=none&uniformYAxis=0&country=USA~AUS~NZL~NOR~SWE~GBR

    (You can add other countries - the USA did not have the worst >>>>percentage of population that died from Covid . . .)


    Unfortunately Willy there's no politician that has the balls now or
    with the next government to ask for an inquiry. They're all guilty of >>>these deaths.

    As I understand it there is an enquiry being held now. Why do you see
    the government as being responsible for the Covid pandemic

    It was the response to, not the cause of the pandemic which has cause, is >still causing deaths. This is why Sweden's response is so interesting.

    Why? Sweden was a bit later than NZ in limiting movement of people,
    and they moved away from that stance after a relatively short period.
    the comparison with Norway is interesting in that the two countries
    had a similar response until Sweden enabled greater movement of people
    - Sweden ended up with a greater number of excess deaths than Norway.
    their excess deaths were always higher than those of New Zealand and
    Australia. I included Norway and Sweden in the url above - it does
    demonstrate that an action praised by Conservative politicians as
    being more 'business friendly" turned out to be not so good at saving
    lives. Is there anything else that makes Sweden's Covid response
    interesting?


    - the
    deaths measured in the chart I posted were from Covid, at lower levels
    in New Zealand due to the excellent actions taken by our government,
    but the government and the Labour / Green politicians in that
    government were not responsible for the deaths.

    Never your fault eh?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)