Apologies if some view this as off topic, but I found it interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC5AG7JDUfY
"The Swedish government's decision to forgo lockdowns as most of Europe, Asia,
and North America's political leaders forcibly closed businesses and schools
in the early days of the pandemic became one of the most controversial COVID >policies of 2020.
The New York Times in April 2020 designated Sweden "the world's cautionary >tale," and President Donald Trump proclaimed that "Sweden is paying heavily >for its decision not to lockdown" as an early wave of COVID deaths hit
Sweden harder than its Nordic neighbors.
But to Swedish officials, "it looked like it was other countries that were >engaging in a dangerous experiment," writes Cato Institute senior fellow >Johan Norberg in a policy paper entitled "Sweden during the pandemic:
Pariah or paragon?"
The attacks on Sweden's laissez-faire approach were short-sighted,
says Norberg. Today, Sweden's COVID-19 death rate is not an
outlier, and its excess death rate from 2020 to the present is
the lowest in Europe.
In a retrospective report on the country's pandemic response,
Sweden's public health officials say that they should have
more aggressively protected senior citizens and tested and quarantined >travelers from COVID hotspots in those early days, but consider the
focus on public health recommendations that people can "follow voluntarily" >over coercive lockdowns was "fundamentally correct."
Norberg also points out that Sweden avoided the economic contraction
that its neighboring countries suffered, as well as the learning loss >experienced in countries that closed schools for months or even years.
Unquote
This is long 84 mins.
The second half (41 mins on) is much more about the political system in >Sweden in General along with the recent history.
The world really needs to thank Sweden for being the control sample.
When viewing this thinking back to how NZ did it does indeed show a good >contrast.
New Zealand 2
On Thu, 05 Oct 2023, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
New Zealand 2
That's because NZ hides their eyes, Rich. Here's a list of plausible
NZ vaxx deaths from >https://nzdsos.com/2022/05/24/deaths-following-c-19-vaccination/
Surnames are redacted in the list but are provided to MPs & police:
On Sat, 07 Oct 2023 05:13:52 GMT, willynilly@qwert.com (Willy Nilly)
wrote:
On Thu, 05 Oct 2023, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
New Zealand 2
That's because NZ hides their eyes, Rich. Here's a list of plausible
NZ vaxx deaths from >>https://nzdsos.com/2022/05/24/deaths-following-c-19-vaccination/
Surnames are redacted in the list but are provided to MPs & police:
The surnames were also changed in some cases; they are readily
available at the url you have given, so to assist comments I have
deleted them from this reply.
First each of the deaths will have had a cause of death identified by
the attending physician, or they will have been referred to a coroner.
The implication that no cause of death was identified may well be
incorrect
You assertions do however emphasise the excellence of the response
from our government.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/485033/it-s-been-3-years-since-covid-19-entered-new-zealand-here-are-3-ways-to-improve-our-response
With hindsight, the first response to minimise the number of people
coming in was good - we were lucky to be in a position to do that. The
same strategy was taken by some states in Australia, albeit a little
later than New Zealand; those that minimised infection in the first
place did better overall than other states. Secondly the lock-downs
were also the right thing to do - as was modifying a general lock down
to regional lockdowns only as needed. In the early stages of the
pandemic there were no vaccines of course; those early actions gave
New Zealand time by minimising infection in those early days.
When vaccines became available, priority was given to countries where
either the vaccine was being manufactured or where infections rates
were highest. That caused some concern among some New Zealanders who
wanted the vaccine to be provided more quickly. It did however mean
that New Zealand did not get the earliest vaccines; and we fairly
quickly had a few different vaccines able to be used.
Most new vaccines do have adverse results for some who receive it -
but overall it has clearly reduced death rates; Michael Baker (one of
the authors of the article in the link I gave above) has said recently
that we probably saved 20,000 lives - using the same reference I have >frequently used. I suspect his comparison is against the experience of
the United States and the United Kingdom who did not generally follow >sensible precautions - taking our population at say 5.5 million, an
extra 400 deaths per 100,000 population (the difference between the
USA and New Zealand (central estimates) gives 22,000 additional deaths
that we would have had if we had the same experience as the United
States. See >https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-deaths-cumulative-per-100k-economist?tab=chart&facet=none&uniformYAxis=0&country=USA~AUS~NZL~NOR~SWE~GBR
(You can add other countries - the USA did not have the worst
percentage of population that died from Covid . . .)
On Sat, 07 Oct 2023 05:13:52 GMT, willynilly@qwert.com (Willy Nilly)
wrote:
On Thu, 05 Oct 2023, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
New Zealand 2
That's because NZ hides their eyes, Rich. Here's a list of plausible
NZ vaxx deaths from >>https://nzdsos.com/2022/05/24/deaths-following-c-19-vaccination/
Surnames are redacted in the list but are provided to MPs & police:
The surnames were also changed in some cases; they are readily
available at the url you have given, so to assist comments I have
deleted them from this reply.
First each of the deaths will have had a cause of death identified by
the attending physician, or they will have been referred to a coroner.
The implication that no cause of death was identified may well be
incorrect
You assertions do however emphasise the excellence of the response
from our government.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/485033/it-s-been-3-years-since-covid-19-entered-new-zealand-here-are-3-ways-to-improve-our-response
With hindsight, the first response to minimise the number of people
coming in was good - we were lucky to be in a position to do that.
The
same strategy was taken by some states in Australia, albeit a little
later than New Zealand; those that minimised infection in the first
place did better overall than other states. Secondly the lock-downs
were also the right thing to do - as was modifying a general lock down
to regional lockdowns only as needed.
In the early stages of the
pandemic there were no vaccines of course; those early actions gave
New Zealand time by minimising infection in those early days.
When vaccines became available, priority was given to countries where
either the vaccine was being manufactured or where infections rates
were highest. That caused some concern among some New Zealanders who
wanted the vaccine to be provided more quickly.
It did however mean
that New Zealand did not get the earliest vaccines; and we fairly
quickly had a few different vaccines able to be used.
Most new vaccines do have adverse results for some who receive it -
but overall it has clearly reduced death rates; Michael Baker (one of
the authors of the article in the link I gave above) has said recently
that we probably saved 20,000 lives - using the same reference I have frequently used. I suspect his comparison is against the experience of
the United States and the United Kingdom who did not generally follow sensible precautions - taking our population at say 5.5 million, an
extra 400 deaths per 100,000 population (the difference between the
USA and New Zealand (central estimates) gives 22,000 additional deaths
that we would have had if we had the same experience as the United
States. See https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-deaths-cumulative-per-100k-economist?tab=chart&facet=none&uniformYAxis=0&country=USA~AUS~NZL~NOR~SWE~GBR
(You can add other countries - the USA did not have the worst
percentage of population that died from Covid . . .)
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 07 Oct 2023 05:13:52 GMT, willynilly@qwert.com (Willy Nilly)Unfortunately Willy there's no politician that has the balls now or
wrote:
On Thu, 05 Oct 2023, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
New Zealand 2
That's because NZ hides their eyes, Rich. Here's a list of plausible
NZ vaxx deaths from >>>https://nzdsos.com/2022/05/24/deaths-following-c-19-vaccination/
Surnames are redacted in the list but are provided to MPs & police:
The surnames were also changed in some cases; they are readily
available at the url you have given, so to assist comments I have
deleted them from this reply.
First each of the deaths will have had a cause of death identified by
the attending physician, or they will have been referred to a coroner.
The implication that no cause of death was identified may well be
incorrect
You assertions do however emphasise the excellence of the response
from our government.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/485033/it-s-been-3-years-since-covid-19-entered-new-zealand-here-are-3-ways-to-improve-our-response
With hindsight, the first response to minimise the number of people
coming in was good - we were lucky to be in a position to do that. The
same strategy was taken by some states in Australia, albeit a little
later than New Zealand; those that minimised infection in the first
place did better overall than other states. Secondly the lock-downs
were also the right thing to do - as was modifying a general lock down
to regional lockdowns only as needed. In the early stages of the
pandemic there were no vaccines of course; those early actions gave
New Zealand time by minimising infection in those early days.
When vaccines became available, priority was given to countries where >>either the vaccine was being manufactured or where infections rates
were highest. That caused some concern among some New Zealanders who
wanted the vaccine to be provided more quickly. It did however mean
that New Zealand did not get the earliest vaccines; and we fairly
quickly had a few different vaccines able to be used.
Most new vaccines do have adverse results for some who receive it -
but overall it has clearly reduced death rates; Michael Baker (one of
the authors of the article in the link I gave above) has said recently
that we probably saved 20,000 lives - using the same reference I have >>frequently used. I suspect his comparison is against the experience of
the United States and the United Kingdom who did not generally follow >>sensible precautions - taking our population at say 5.5 million, an
extra 400 deaths per 100,000 population (the difference between the
USA and New Zealand (central estimates) gives 22,000 additional deaths
that we would have had if we had the same experience as the United
States. See >>https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-deaths-cumulative-per-100k-economist?tab=chart&facet=none&uniformYAxis=0&country=USA~AUS~NZL~NOR~SWE~GBR
(You can add other countries - the USA did not have the worst
percentage of population that died from Covid . . .)
with the next government to ask for an inquiry. They're all guilty of
these deaths.
On Sun, 08 Oct 2023 13:29:45 +1300, Mutley <mutle...@hotmail.com>Who's running the supposed enquiry Rich? Verrall? She did a brilliant job of writing a glowing report for Labour. So good it got her into parliament and a cabinet post! Any enquiry by the Labour party on their covid actions will be about as much use as
wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
As I understand it there is an enquiry being held now. Why do you seeOn Sat, 07 Oct 2023 05:13:52 GMT, willy...@qwert.com (Willy Nilly) >>wrote:Unfortunately Willy there's no politician that has the balls now or
On Thu, 05 Oct 2023, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
New Zealand 2
That's because NZ hides their eyes, Rich. Here's a list of plausible >>>NZ vaxx deaths from >>>https://nzdsos.com/2022/05/24/deaths-following-c-19-vaccination/
Surnames are redacted in the list but are provided to MPs & police:
The surnames were also changed in some cases; they are readily
available at the url you have given, so to assist comments I have >>deleted them from this reply.
First each of the deaths will have had a cause of death identified by >>the attending physician, or they will have been referred to a coroner. >>The implication that no cause of death was identified may well be >>incorrect
You assertions do however emphasise the excellence of the response
from our government.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/485033/it-s-been-3-years-since-covid-19-entered-new-zealand-here-are-3-ways-to-improve-our-response
With hindsight, the first response to minimise the number of people >>coming in was good - we were lucky to be in a position to do that. The >>same strategy was taken by some states in Australia, albeit a little >>later than New Zealand; those that minimised infection in the first >>place did better overall than other states. Secondly the lock-downs
were also the right thing to do - as was modifying a general lock down >>to regional lockdowns only as needed. In the early stages of the >>pandemic there were no vaccines of course; those early actions gave
New Zealand time by minimising infection in those early days.
When vaccines became available, priority was given to countries where >>either the vaccine was being manufactured or where infections rates
were highest. That caused some concern among some New Zealanders who >>wanted the vaccine to be provided more quickly. It did however mean
that New Zealand did not get the earliest vaccines; and we fairly >>quickly had a few different vaccines able to be used.
Most new vaccines do have adverse results for some who receive it -
but overall it has clearly reduced death rates; Michael Baker (one of >>the authors of the article in the link I gave above) has said recently >>that we probably saved 20,000 lives - using the same reference I have >>frequently used. I suspect his comparison is against the experience of >>the United States and the United Kingdom who did not generally follow >>sensible precautions - taking our population at say 5.5 million, an >>extra 400 deaths per 100,000 population (the difference between the
USA and New Zealand (central estimates) gives 22,000 additional deaths >>that we would have had if we had the same experience as the United >>States. See >>https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-deaths-cumulative-per-100k-economist?tab=chart&facet=none&uniformYAxis=0&country=USA~AUS~NZL~NOR~SWE~GBR
(You can add other countries - the USA did not have the worst
percentage of population that died from Covid . . .)
with the next government to ask for an inquiry. They're all guilty of >these deaths.
the government as being responsible for the Covid pandemic - the
deaths measured in the chart I posted were from Covid, at lower levels
in New Zealand due to the excellent actions taken by our government,
but the government and the Labour / Green politicians in that
government were not responsible for the deaths.
On Sun, 08 Oct 2023 13:29:45 +1300, Mutley <mutley2000@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 07 Oct 2023 05:13:52 GMT, willynilly@qwert.com (Willy Nilly) >>>wrote:Unfortunately Willy there's no politician that has the balls now or
On Thu, 05 Oct 2023, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
New Zealand 2
That's because NZ hides their eyes, Rich. Here's a list of plausible >>>>NZ vaxx deaths from >>>>https://nzdsos.com/2022/05/24/deaths-following-c-19-vaccination/
Surnames are redacted in the list but are provided to MPs & police:
The surnames were also changed in some cases; they are readily
available at the url you have given, so to assist comments I have
deleted them from this reply.
First each of the deaths will have had a cause of death identified by
the attending physician, or they will have been referred to a coroner. >>>The implication that no cause of death was identified may well be >>>incorrect
You assertions do however emphasise the excellence of the response
from our government.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/485033/it-s-been-3-years-since-covid-19-entered-new-zealand-here-are-3-ways-to-improve-our-response
With hindsight, the first response to minimise the number of people >>>coming in was good - we were lucky to be in a position to do that. The >>>same strategy was taken by some states in Australia, albeit a little >>>later than New Zealand; those that minimised infection in the first
place did better overall than other states. Secondly the lock-downs
were also the right thing to do - as was modifying a general lock down
to regional lockdowns only as needed. In the early stages of the
pandemic there were no vaccines of course; those early actions gave
New Zealand time by minimising infection in those early days.
When vaccines became available, priority was given to countries where >>>either the vaccine was being manufactured or where infections rates
were highest. That caused some concern among some New Zealanders who >>>wanted the vaccine to be provided more quickly. It did however mean
that New Zealand did not get the earliest vaccines; and we fairly
quickly had a few different vaccines able to be used.
Most new vaccines do have adverse results for some who receive it -
but overall it has clearly reduced death rates; Michael Baker (one of
the authors of the article in the link I gave above) has said recently >>>that we probably saved 20,000 lives - using the same reference I have >>>frequently used. I suspect his comparison is against the experience of >>>the United States and the United Kingdom who did not generally follow >>>sensible precautions - taking our population at say 5.5 million, an
extra 400 deaths per 100,000 population (the difference between the
USA and New Zealand (central estimates) gives 22,000 additional deaths >>>that we would have had if we had the same experience as the United >>>States. See >>>https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-deaths-cumulative-per-100k-economist?tab=chart&facet=none&uniformYAxis=0&country=USA~AUS~NZL~NOR~SWE~GBR
(You can add other countries - the USA did not have the worst
percentage of population that died from Covid . . .)
with the next government to ask for an inquiry. They're all guilty of >>these deaths.
As I understand it there is an enquiry being held now. Why do you see
the government as being responsible for the Covid pandemic
deaths measured in the chart I posted were from Covid, at lower levels
in New Zealand due to the excellent actions taken by our government,
but the government and the Labour / Green politicians in that
government were not responsible for the deaths.
On 2023-10-08, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, 08 Oct 2023 13:29:45 +1300, Mutley <mutley2000@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 07 Oct 2023 05:13:52 GMT, willynilly@qwert.com (Willy Nilly) >>>>wrote:Unfortunately Willy there's no politician that has the balls now or
On Thu, 05 Oct 2023, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
New Zealand 2
That's because NZ hides their eyes, Rich. Here's a list of plausible >>>>>NZ vaxx deaths from >>>>>https://nzdsos.com/2022/05/24/deaths-following-c-19-vaccination/
Surnames are redacted in the list but are provided to MPs & police:
The surnames were also changed in some cases; they are readily >>>>available at the url you have given, so to assist comments I have >>>>deleted them from this reply.
First each of the deaths will have had a cause of death identified by >>>>the attending physician, or they will have been referred to a coroner. >>>>The implication that no cause of death was identified may well be >>>>incorrect
You assertions do however emphasise the excellence of the response
from our government.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/485033/it-s-been-3-years-since-covid-19-entered-new-zealand-here-are-3-ways-to-improve-our-response
With hindsight, the first response to minimise the number of people >>>>coming in was good - we were lucky to be in a position to do that. The >>>>same strategy was taken by some states in Australia, albeit a little >>>>later than New Zealand; those that minimised infection in the first >>>>place did better overall than other states. Secondly the lock-downs >>>>were also the right thing to do - as was modifying a general lock down >>>>to regional lockdowns only as needed. In the early stages of the >>>>pandemic there were no vaccines of course; those early actions gave
New Zealand time by minimising infection in those early days.
When vaccines became available, priority was given to countries where >>>>either the vaccine was being manufactured or where infections rates >>>>were highest. That caused some concern among some New Zealanders who >>>>wanted the vaccine to be provided more quickly. It did however mean >>>>that New Zealand did not get the earliest vaccines; and we fairly >>>>quickly had a few different vaccines able to be used.
Most new vaccines do have adverse results for some who receive it -
but overall it has clearly reduced death rates; Michael Baker (one of >>>>the authors of the article in the link I gave above) has said recently >>>>that we probably saved 20,000 lives - using the same reference I have >>>>frequently used. I suspect his comparison is against the experience of >>>>the United States and the United Kingdom who did not generally follow >>>>sensible precautions - taking our population at say 5.5 million, an >>>>extra 400 deaths per 100,000 population (the difference between the
USA and New Zealand (central estimates) gives 22,000 additional deaths >>>>that we would have had if we had the same experience as the United >>>>States. See >>>>https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-deaths-cumulative-per-100k-economist?tab=chart&facet=none&uniformYAxis=0&country=USA~AUS~NZL~NOR~SWE~GBR
(You can add other countries - the USA did not have the worst >>>>percentage of population that died from Covid . . .)
with the next government to ask for an inquiry. They're all guilty of >>>these deaths.
As I understand it there is an enquiry being held now. Why do you see
the government as being responsible for the Covid pandemic
It was the response to, not the cause of the pandemic which has cause, is >still causing deaths. This is why Sweden's response is so interesting.
- the
deaths measured in the chart I posted were from Covid, at lower levels
in New Zealand due to the excellent actions taken by our government,
but the government and the Labour / Green politicians in that
government were not responsible for the deaths.
Never your fault eh?
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