https://doomberg.substack.com/p/windbaggery

An energy-analysed view of the impending doom of wind turbines. After
decades of government subsidies, the powers-that-be, in their
increasingly desperate search for energy, have come face-to-face with
the ineluctable conclusion: Wind turbines _ just _ don't _ work.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wed, 27 Sep 2023 07:32:54 GMT, willynilly@qwert.com (Willy Nilly)
wrote:

https://doomberg.substack.com/p/windbaggery

An energy-analysed view of the impending doom of wind turbines. After >decades of government subsidies, the powers-that-be, in their
increasingly desperate search for energy, have come face-to-face with
the ineluctable conclusion: Wind turbines _ just _ don't _ work.

In the New Zealand context, we seem to have put more emphasis on solar generation in recent years, although some of the generators have plans
for more wind. I'm not aware of any off-shore wind turbines, or
turbines with overly large blades, but I think Chris Luxon has
indicated that National would look to more wind generation using
off-shore turbines. We do have some capacity for more hydro
generation, particularly with small generators. Our biggest problem is
that privatisation of the electricity industry was done in such a way
that the effective cartel of gen companies are able to maximise
profits rather than seek (or allow) lower costs to electricity users;
hence our use of coal generation from time to time - all the costs are
just passed on to users . . . Windbaggery is a good expression; there
is a lot of it around, but we do need to be aware that our situation
is not necessarily the same as that of the United States.

Other articles on that site are also interesting - at https://doomberg.substack.com/p/the-great-backpedaling-is-upon-us
he describes the UK Conservative Party as being "charter members of
the soft left" referring to Rishi Sunak announcing a series of
U-Turns on critical targets to tackle climate change, and relaxed a
phase-out target for the installation of new gas boilers - policies
which New Zealanders would see as right-wing.

That url does however include a chart of the UK Consumer Price Index
which demonstrates that New Zealand has done particularly well in
keeping inflation low in the last few years.

https://doomberg.substack.com/p/no-worries-mate covers some well
known facts about Australia's resource riches, and its reliance on
imports for petroleum fuels. Sadly the article stops suddenly with a
series of unanswered questions. It does however remind us that
Australia's mineral riches enable it to have a higher standard of
living than many countries; despite having higher tax rates than New
Zealand, lower levels of health provision (health insurance is
regarded as essential by most Australians - it is effectively treated
as a tax), they have higher wages and salaries than New Zealand -
which have assisted their industries to become more efficient than
some of ours in mechanisation and use of computers.

So thanks Willy Nilly!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, 28 Sep 2023, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

https://doomberg.substack.com/ ...

Other articles on that site are also interesting ...
So thanks Willy Nilly!

Well done, Rich, to have read some of the interesting topics there.
The article about the Australian infrastructure vulnerability that
they are not refining their own diesel is pertinent to NZ also -- I
think that Marsden Point refined diesel -- not sure now.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wed, 27 Sep 2023 21:55:24 GMT, willynilly@qwert.com (Willy Nilly)
wrote:

On Thu, 28 Sep 2023, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

https://doomberg.substack.com/ ...

Other articles on that site are also interesting ...
So thanks Willy Nilly!

Well done, Rich, to have read some of the interesting topics there.
The article about the Australian infrastructure vulnerability that
they are not refining their own diesel is pertinent to NZ also -- I
think that Marsden Point refined diesel -- not sure now.

Yes I think that was the major product from Marsden Point; although
they may have also assisted with our crazy preoccupation with major
roads through production of bitumen as well. Sadly the "Think Big"
concept still had appeal to the Key/English governments - we have an
underused Hamilton Expressway that could have been slightly smaller
but with a straightened rail line developed alongside; and when the
costs got too high, then then government stopped highway maintenance
elsewhere - presumably as bitumen became more expensive. The storms /
flooding we have experienced recently are being partially attributed
to global warming; they have highlighted the dangers of conflating low
rates with good government - tax cuts at National level would leave us
very vulnerable to more extreme weather events; especially as we are
also discovering that the Hawkes Bay deaths from water pollution did
not prompt other local bodies to clean up their water processes - the
chickens are not just coming home to roost - we are getting to much
shit in our water!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Another worthy site if you don't know how carbon-intensive "Green"
technology is:

https://bfrandall.substack.com/

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, 28 Sep 2023 01:29:00 GMT, willynilly@qwert.com (Willy Nilly)
wrote:

Another worthy site if you don't know how carbon-intensive "Green"
technology is:

https://bfrandall.substack.com/

Not particularly relevant to New Zealand. We are unlikely to "go
nuclear" for many years - particularly given the experience with a
reactor that did not do them much good with a large Tsunami . . .

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, 28 Sep 2023, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, 28 Sep 2023 ... willynilly@qwert.com (Willy Nilly) wrote:

Another worthy site if you don't know how carbon-intensive "Green" >>technology is:

https://bfrandall.substack.com/

Not particularly relevant to New Zealand.

Very relevant to New Zealand as we are still building more environmentally-and-electricity-grid-destructive wind turbines.
NZ must wake up and stop building those.

We are unlikely to "go nuclear" for many years -

But we can develop more hydro, especially in the North Island.

particularly given the experience with a reactor that
did not do them much good with a large Tsunami . . .

Well, Japan have learned from that experience, resolved to do better,
and have now re-started their nuclear power plants. Germany are the
only lunatics to have switched theirs off just when it was most needed

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, 28 Sep 2023 03:25:39 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, 28 Sep 2023 01:29:00 GMT, willynilly@qwert.com (Willy Nilly)
wrote:

Another worthy site if you don't know how carbon-intensive "Green" >>>technology is:

https://bfrandall.substack.com/

Not particularly relevant to New Zealand. We are unlikely to "go
nuclear" for many years - particularly given the experience with a
reactor that did not do them much good with a large Tsunami . . .

Off topic the topic was clearly "THE DIRTY SECRET OF THE PHOTOVOLTAIC INDUSTRY:
"CARBON INTENSITY" JUNK SCIENCE" which you ignored.

There were a lot of articles - I was responding to one or more of: https://bfrandall.substack.com/p/john-lee-pettimore-mine-tailings
and
https://bfrandall.substack.com/p/co2-payback-magic-thinking-wind-and
and
https://bfrandall.substack.com/p/used-nuclear-fuel-is-fuel-not-waste
and
https://bfrandall.substack.com/p/what-is-it-with-the-yellow-radioactive
and
https://bfrandall.substack.com/p/nuclear-power-has-no-natural-constituency

Perhaps you could ask Willy Nilly what he was expecting . . . .

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, 28 Sep 2023 03:25:39 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, 28 Sep 2023 01:29:00 GMT, willynilly@qwert.com (Willy Nilly) >>>wrote:

Another worthy site if you don't know how carbon-intensive "Green" >>>>technology is:

https://bfrandall.substack.com/

Not particularly relevant to New Zealand. We are unlikely to "go
nuclear" for many years - particularly given the experience with a >>>reactor that did not do them much good with a large Tsunami . . .

Off topic the topic was clearly "THE DIRTY SECRET OF THE PHOTOVOLTAIC >>INDUSTRY:
"CARBON INTENSITY" JUNK SCIENCE" which you ignored.

There were a lot of articles - I was responding to one or more of: >https://bfrandall.substack.com/p/john-lee-pettimore-mine-tailings
and
https://bfrandall.substack.com/p/co2-payback-magic-thinking-wind-and
and
https://bfrandall.substack.com/p/used-nuclear-fuel-is-fuel-not-waste
and
https://bfrandall.substack.com/p/what-is-it-with-the-yellow-radioactive
and >https://bfrandall.substack.com/p/nuclear-power-has-no-natural-constituency

Perhaps you could ask Willy Nilly what he was expecting . . . .

He posted the one at the top of this thread. The very first item was the one he clearly directed your meagre attention to. And you went straight to the bottom of the list. Did you always go to the bottom of the class at school?
You are pathetic.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, 28 Sep 2023 02:46:58 GMT, willynilly@qwert.com (Willy Nilly)
wrote:

On Thu, 28 Sep 2023, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, 28 Sep 2023 ... willynilly@qwert.com (Willy Nilly) wrote:

Another worthy site if you don't know how carbon-intensive "Green" >>>technology is:

https://bfrandall.substack.com/

Not particularly relevant to New Zealand.

Very relevant to New Zealand as we are still building more >environmentally-and-electricity-grid-destructive wind turbines.
NZ must wake up and stop building those.

The article talked about the energy use in making and replacing
components of wind turbines, but how are they
electricity-grid-destructive?

We are unlikely to "go nuclear" for many years -

But we can develop more hydro, especially in the North Island.

Why especially in the North Island? I agree that we should be able to
develop more hydro from smaller generators in a lot of places - they
are getting more desirable as prices rise to deliver high profits to
the market generators. Where did you have in mind for additional hydro generation?

particularly given the experience with a reactor that
did not do them much good with a large Tsunami . . .

Well, Japan have learned from that experience, resolved to do better,
and have now re-started their nuclear power plants. Germany are the
only lunatics to have switched theirs off just when it was most needed

We have the potential for tsunami, earthquake, flooding, and slips -
and as for others a problem with waste disposal . . .

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, 28 Sep 2023 01:29:00 GMT, willynilly@qwert.com (Willy Nilly)
wrote:

Another worthy site if you don't know how carbon-intensive "Green" >>technology is:

https://bfrandall.substack.com/

Not particularly relevant to New Zealand. We are unlikely to "go
nuclear" for many years - particularly given the experience with a
reactor that did not do them much good with a large Tsunami . . .

Off topic the topic was clearly "THE DIRTY SECRET OF THE PHOTOVOLTAIC INDUSTRY: "CARBON INTENSITY" JUNK SCIENCE" which you ignored.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, 28 Sep 2023, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, 28 Sep 2023 ... willynilly@qwert.com (Willy Nilly) wrote:

Very relevant to New Zealand as we are still building more >>environmentally-and-electricity-grid-destructive wind turbines.
NZ must wake up and stop building those.

The article talked about the energy use in making and replacing
components of wind turbines, but how are they
electricity-grid-destructive?

Because the grid must have 100% replaceability for wind (for when
there is no wind), so complexity must be built into the grid to handle
on&off inputs from wind. What's worse is that oil & coal generators
run efficiently at full throttle but inefficiently at half-throttle
(as is true of any machine), so putting them on half-throttle to
accomodate some incoming wind power means the total carbon output is
*higher* than if there was no wind power at all. Here's more:
https://bfrandall.substack.com/p/chaos-theory-meet-the-grid

But we can develop more hydro, especially in the North Island.

Why especially in the North Island?

Because that's where the energy consumers are, duh.

Where did you have in mind for additional hydro generation?

A few years ago they were going to build some on the Whanganui River,
I think it was, but got vetoed by iwi. But there has to be a limit on
what iwi can veto, if something is sufficiently important.

We have the potential for tsunami, earthquake, flooding, and slips -
and as for others a problem with waste disposal . . .

There is no problem of waste disposal for the new generation of
nuclear breeder reactors, which re-use their own waste -- because you
change the settings -- until there's basically nothing left. Also
there are numerous industrial applications for breeder waste which, in
its use, gets refined to a precisely specified output product.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 3:47:45 PM UTC+13, Willy Nilly wrote:

On Thu, 28 Sep 2023, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, 28 Sep 2023 ... willy...@qwert.com (Willy Nilly) wrote:

Another worthy site if you don't know how carbon-intensive "Green" >>technology is:

https://bfrandall.substack.com/

Not particularly relevant to New Zealand.

Very relevant to New Zealand as we are still building more environmentally-and-electricity-grid-destructive wind turbines.
NZ must wake up and stop building those.

We are unlikely to "go nuclear" for many years -

But we can develop more hydro, especially in the North Island.

particularly given the experience with a reactor that
did not do them much good with a large Tsunami . . .

Well, Japan have learned from that experience, resolved to do better,
and have now re-started their nuclear power plants. Germany are the
only lunatics to have switched theirs off just when it was most needed

We forget geothermal power at our own expense. After all it's the ultimate non polluting nuclear power....

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

willynilly@qwert.com (Willy Nilly) wrote:

On Thu, 28 Sep 2023, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, 28 Sep 2023 ... willynilly@qwert.com (Willy Nilly) wrote:

Very relevant to New Zealand as we are still building more >>>environmentally-and-electricity-grid-destructive wind turbines.
NZ must wake up and stop building those.

The article talked about the energy use in making and replacing
components of wind turbines, but how are they
electricity-grid-destructive?

Because the grid must have 100% replaceability for wind (for when
there is no wind), so complexity must be built into the grid to handle
on&off inputs from wind. What's worse is that oil & coal generators
run efficiently at full throttle but inefficiently at half-throttle
(as is true of any machine), so putting them on half-throttle to
accomodate some incoming wind power means the total carbon output is
*higher* than if there was no wind power at all. Here's more:
https://bfrandall.substack.com/p/chaos-theory-meet-the-grid

But that is science and not politics. Rich prefers the latter.

But we can develop more hydro, especially in the North Island.

Why especially in the North Island?

Because that's where the energy consumers are, duh.

Where did you have in mind for additional hydro generation?

A few years ago they were going to build some on the Whanganui River,
I think it was, but got vetoed by iwi. But there has to be a limit on
what iwi can veto, if something is sufficiently important.

We have the potential for tsunami, earthquake, flooding, and slips -
and as for others a problem with waste disposal . . .

There is no problem of waste disposal for the new generation of
nuclear breeder reactors, which re-use their own waste -- because you
change the settings -- until there's basically nothing left. Also
there are numerous industrial applications for breeder waste which, in
its use, gets refined to a precisely specified output product.

And fusion reactors very near now - no chance of meltdown and very clean waste. Another scientific discussion - not something that Rich likes.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2023-09-28, Willy Nilly <willynilly@qwert.com> wrote:

On Thu, 28 Sep 2023, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, 28 Sep 2023 ... willynilly@qwert.com (Willy Nilly) wrote:

Another worthy site if you don't know how carbon-intensive "Green" >>>technology is:

https://bfrandall.substack.com/

Not particularly relevant to New Zealand.

Very relevant to New Zealand as we are still building more environmentally-and-electricity-grid-destructive wind turbines.
NZ must wake up and stop building those.

We are unlikely to "go nuclear" for many years -

But we can develop more hydro, especially in the North Island.

particularly given the experience with a reactor that
did not do them much good with a large Tsunami . . .

Well, Japan have learned from that experience, resolved to do better,
and have now re-started their nuclear power plants. Germany are the
only lunatics to have switched theirs off just when it was most needed

The Japanese plant was poorly designed, or the wave was too big for the
design wall height.

Placing the emergency generators in the basement was not the best place.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2023-09-28, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

willynilly@qwert.com (Willy Nilly) wrote:

On Thu, 28 Sep 2023, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, 28 Sep 2023 ... willynilly@qwert.com (Willy Nilly) wrote:

Very relevant to New Zealand as we are still building more >>>>environmentally-and-electricity-grid-destructive wind turbines.
NZ must wake up and stop building those.

The article talked about the energy use in making and replacing >>>components of wind turbines, but how are they >>>electricity-grid-destructive?

Because the grid must have 100% replaceability for wind (for when
there is no wind), so complexity must be built into the grid to handle >>on&off inputs from wind. What's worse is that oil & coal generators
run efficiently at full throttle but inefficiently at half-throttle
(as is true of any machine), so putting them on half-throttle to
accomodate some incoming wind power means the total carbon output is >>*higher* than if there was no wind power at all. Here's more:
https://bfrandall.substack.com/p/chaos-theory-meet-the-grid

But that is science and not politics. Rich prefers the latter.

But we can develop more hydro, especially in the North Island.

Why especially in the North Island?

Because that's where the energy consumers are, duh.

Where did you have in mind for additional hydro generation?

A few years ago they were going to build some on the Whanganui River,
I think it was, but got vetoed by iwi. But there has to be a limit on
what iwi can veto, if something is sufficiently important.

We have the potential for tsunami, earthquake, flooding, and slips -
and as for others a problem with waste disposal . . .

There is no problem of waste disposal for the new generation of
nuclear breeder reactors, which re-use their own waste -- because you >>change the settings -- until there's basically nothing left. Also
there are numerous industrial applications for breeder waste which, in
its use, gets refined to a precisely specified output product.

And fusion reactors very near now - no chance of meltdown and very clean waste.
Another scientific discussion - not something that Rich likes.

There are alot of options, and devlopment going on. We need to keep up and understand that there will be some debate about the best option for NZ.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2023-09-28, Willy Nilly <willynilly@qwert.com> wrote:

On Thu, 28 Sep 2023, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, 28 Sep 2023 ... willynilly@qwert.com (Willy Nilly) wrote:

Very relevant to New Zealand as we are still building more >>>environmentally-and-electricity-grid-destructive wind turbines.
NZ must wake up and stop building those.

The article talked about the energy use in making and replacing
components of wind turbines, but how are they
electricity-grid-destructive?

Because the grid must have 100% replaceability for wind (for when
there is no wind), so complexity must be built into the grid to handle
on&off inputs from wind.

True there will need to be further controls on the network. Same will apply
for solar.

Also the demand varies throught the day (and seasons).

Green energy needs storage, just as does conventional power generation, but
it has this by stockpiles of coal, and dams etc.

What's worse is that oil & coal generators
run efficiently at full throttle but inefficiently at half-throttle
(as is true of any machine),

The diesel engine runs more efficiently at partial throttle/load.

so putting them on half-throttle to
accomodate some incoming wind power means the total carbon output is
*higher* than if there was no wind power at all. Here's more:
https://bfrandall.substack.com/p/chaos-theory-meet-the-grid

I'll go off and read some stuff on this site. Bound to learn something.

But we can develop more hydro, especially in the North Island.

Why especially in the North Island?

Because that's where the energy consumers are, duh.

Where did you have in mind for additional hydro generation?

A few years ago they were going to build some on the Whanganui River,
I think it was, but got vetoed by iwi. But there has to be a limit on
what iwi can veto, if something is sufficiently important.

We have the potential for tsunami, earthquake, flooding, and slips -
and as for others a problem with waste disposal . . .

There is no problem of waste disposal for the new generation of
nuclear breeder reactors, which re-use their own waste -- because you
change the settings -- until there's basically nothing left. Also
there are numerous industrial applications for breeder waste which, in
its use, gets refined to a precisely specified output product.

Read, nuclear pwer stations are not the same as 70 years ago. There has been development.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 28 Sep 2023 07:20:03 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:

On 2023-09-28, Willy Nilly <willynilly@qwert.com> wrote:

https://bfrandall.substack.com/p/chaos-theory-meet-the-grid

Need to page down a little before hitting the good stuff.

I'll go off and read some stuff on this site. Bound to learn something.

Yep.

Read, nuclear pwer stations are not the same as 70 years ago. There has been >development.

Only the Russians have built and are using a modern "fast" breeder
reactor, so far -- they didn't have moronic "greenies" to oppose it.
The technology is basically solved and in design & proposals.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wed, 27 Sep 2023 21:45:04 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
<bowesjohn02@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 3:47:45?PM UTC+13, Willy Nilly wrote:

On Thu, 28 Sep 2023, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, 28 Sep 2023 ... willy...@qwert.com (Willy Nilly) wrote:

Another worthy site if you don't know how carbon-intensive "Green"
technology is:

https://bfrandall.substack.com/

Not particularly relevant to New Zealand.

Very relevant to New Zealand as we are still building more
environmentally-and-electricity-grid-destructive wind turbines.
NZ must wake up and stop building those.

We are unlikely to "go nuclear" for many years -

But we can develop more hydro, especially in the North Island.

particularly given the experience with a reactor that
did not do them much good with a large Tsunami . . .

Well, Japan have learned from that experience, resolved to do better,
and have now re-started their nuclear power plants. Germany are the
only lunatics to have switched theirs off just when it was most needed

We forget geothermal power at our own expense. After all it's the ultimate non polluting nuclear power....

Who has forgotten our use of geothermal power? I do not regard it as
being the same as nuclear power.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, 28 Sep 2023 04:37:05 GMT, willynilly@qwert.com (Willy Nilly)
wrote:

On Thu, 28 Sep 2023, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, 28 Sep 2023 ... willynilly@qwert.com (Willy Nilly) wrote:

Very relevant to New Zealand as we are still building more >>>environmentally-and-electricity-grid-destructive wind turbines.
NZ must wake up and stop building those.

The article talked about the energy use in making and replacing
components of wind turbines, but how are they
electricity-grid-destructive?

Because the grid must have 100% replaceability for wind (for when
there is no wind), so complexity must be built into the grid to handle
on&off inputs from wind. What's worse is that oil & coal generators
run efficiently at full throttle but inefficiently at half-throttle
(as is true of any machine), so putting them on half-throttle to
accomodate some incoming wind power means the total carbon output is
*higher* than if there was no wind power at all. Here's more:
https://bfrandall.substack.com/p/chaos-theory-meet-the-grid

Thanks Willy Nilly. Hydro power generation is able to be adjusted
rapidly in normal conditions; our grid has to cope with changing
generation from solar, wind, hydro, geothermal and input from some
users with rights to feedback excess solar generation; they also cope
with transmission losses, line capacity and changing demand. I was not
aware that we use oil generation any more; any generation from Huntly
coal power will have been planned (within a few hours at least) and
the system adjusted to allow for it. Complexity is relative; the
system is largely computer controlled.

But we can develop more hydro, especially in the North Island.

Why especially in the North Island?

Because that's where the energy consumers are, duh.

Where did you have in mind for additional hydro generation?

A few years ago they were going to build some on the Whanganui River,
I think it was, but got vetoed by iwi. But there has to be a limit on
what iwi can veto, if something is sufficiently important.

We have the potential for tsunami, earthquake, flooding, and slips -
and as for others a problem with waste disposal . . .

There is no problem of waste disposal for the new generation of
nuclear breeder reactors, which re-use their own waste -- because you
change the settings -- until there's basically nothing left. Also
there are numerous industrial applications for breeder waste which, in
its use, gets refined to a precisely specified output product.

Do the other potential problems apply more to New Zealand than other
countries though?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Fri, 29 Sep 2023, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, 28 Sep 2023 ... willynilly@qwert.com (Willy Nilly) wrote:

On Thu, 28 Sep 2023, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

We have the potential for tsunami, earthquake, flooding, and slips -
and as for others a problem with waste disposal . . .

There is no problem of waste disposal ...

Do the other potential problems apply more to New Zealand than other >countries though?

No, because we have excellent alternatives of hydro and maybe geo in
NZ. I didn't suggest nuclear for NZ, rather, the point of this thread
is in the title -- Wind turbines are a disaster and we need to stop
building them.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 12:03:58 AM UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:

On Wed, 27 Sep 2023 21:45:04 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
<bowes...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 3:47:45?PM UTC+13, Willy Nilly wrote:

On Thu, 28 Sep 2023, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, 28 Sep 2023 ... willy...@qwert.com (Willy Nilly) wrote:

Another worthy site if you don't know how carbon-intensive "Green"
technology is:

https://bfrandall.substack.com/

Not particularly relevant to New Zealand.

Very relevant to New Zealand as we are still building more
environmentally-and-electricity-grid-destructive wind turbines.
NZ must wake up and stop building those.

We are unlikely to "go nuclear" for many years -

But we can develop more hydro, especially in the North Island.

particularly given the experience with a reactor that
did not do them much good with a large Tsunami . . .

Well, Japan have learned from that experience, resolved to do better,
and have now re-started their nuclear power plants. Germany are the
only lunatics to have switched theirs off just when it was most needed

We forget geothermal power at our own expense. After all it's the ultimate non polluting nuclear power....

Who has forgotten our use of geothermal power? I do not regard it as
being the same as nuclear power.

You seem to forget it whenever we talk about power generation. The trouble with your favourite solar and wind is they're never available 24/7 and in a few years the equipment is only fir for landfill!

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