• Oh the lies we are told.

    From Tony@21:1/5 to All on Sun Sep 10 23:44:28 2023
    XPost: nz.politics

    https://i0.wp.com/waikanaewatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/image2-55.png?ssl=1
    It amazes me how easy it is for Hipkins to be so mendacious.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Crash@21:1/5 to lizandtony@orcon.net.nz on Mon Sep 11 13:36:24 2023
    On Sun, 10 Sep 2023 23:44:28 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

    https://i0.wp.com/waikanaewatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/image2-55.png?ssl=1
    It amazes me how easy it is for Hipkins to be so mendacious.

    Hipkins is technically right in that no law was ever passed making
    vaccination mandatory, but those who were required to be vaccinated to
    keep their Government-funded jobs can quite justifiably say that
    getting vaccinated to keep your job is equivalent to a mandate.


    --
    Crash McBash

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to Crash on Mon Sep 11 04:07:14 2023
    Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
    On Sun, 10 Sep 2023 23:44:28 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

    https://i0.wp.com/waikanaewatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/image2-55.png?ssl=1
    It amazes me how easy it is for Hipkins to be so mendacious.

    Hipkins is technically right in that no law was ever passed making >vaccination mandatory, but those who were required to be vaccinated to
    keep their Government-funded jobs can quite justifiably say that
    getting vaccinated to keep your job is equivalent to a mandate.

    Yes of course it is, using the technicality is almost worse than a downright lie, it is at least as bad.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to lizandtony@orcon.net.nz on Sat Sep 16 20:58:53 2023
    On Mon, 11 Sep 2023 04:07:14 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

    Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
    On Sun, 10 Sep 2023 23:44:28 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
    https://i0.wp.com/waikanaewatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/image2-55.png?ssl=1
    It amazes me how easy it is for Hipkins to be so mendacious.

    Hipkins is technically right in that no law was ever passed making >>vaccination mandatory, but those who were required to be vaccinated to
    keep their Government-funded jobs can quite justifiably say that
    getting vaccinated to keep your job is equivalent to a mandate.

    Yes of course it is, using the technicality is almost worse than a downright >lie, it is at least as bad.

    Well that went right over your head, didn't it Tony. There is no lie
    except that on Waikanae Watch - you are confusing the deceptive
    "Right" with the 'right' answer given by Crash.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to All on Sat Sep 16 20:54:43 2023
    On Mon, 11 Sep 2023 13:36:24 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 10 Sep 2023 23:44:28 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

    https://i0.wp.com/waikanaewatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/image2-55.png?ssl=1
    It amazes me how easy it is for Hipkins to be so mendacious.

    Hipkins is technically right in that no law was ever passed making >vaccination mandatory, but those who were required to be vaccinated to
    keep their Government-funded jobs can quite justifiably say that
    getting vaccinated to keep your job is equivalent to a mandate.

    Well done Crash. I visited a retirement village earlier today to talk
    to a resident who had just returned from hospital - we were required
    to wear a mask, which we readily acceded to. The wearing of masks in
    the presence of vulnerable people has long been a requirement for
    medical staff and anyone assisting at for example an operation. The
    efficacy of mask wearing varies considerably, but for at least 50
    years it has been accepted as a reasonable precaution for operations.
    The requirement is enforced through a mixture of employer requirements
    and professional practice requirements. It is accepted as being
    reasonable by all but the most stupid. It became good practice to
    ear masks on busses, as having children and adults in close proximity
    in a bus was seen as a potential source of infection to be carried to
    others - it is from my observations still one of the most common
    places to see masks.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to lizandtony@orcon.net.nz on Sat Sep 16 20:27:51 2023
    On Sun, 10 Sep 2023 23:44:28 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

    https://i0.wp.com/waikanaewatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/image2-55.png?ssl=1
    It amazes me how easy it is for Hipkins to be so mendacious.

    I agree Tony - Waikanae Watch has in the past frequently included
    deliberately misleading material, and this is another occasion. They
    may if challenged claim that the character is fictional, therefore the
    lie should not be taken seriously, but clearly it is intended that the
    audience for the website would get fooled as you appear to have been.
    It amazes me that you should be so gullible . . .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Bowes@21:1/5 to All on Sat Sep 16 02:55:39 2023
    On Saturday, September 16, 2023 at 8:35:30 PM UTC+12, Rich80105 wrote:
    On Sun, 10 Sep 2023 23:44:28 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote: >https://i0.wp.com/waikanaewatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/image2-55.png?ssl=1
    It amazes me how easy it is for Hipkins to be so mendacious.
    I agree Tony - Waikanae Watch has in the past frequently included deliberately misleading material, and this is another occasion. They
    may if challenged claim that the character is fictional, therefore the
    lie should not be taken seriously, but clearly it is intended that the audience for the website would get fooled as you appear to have been.
    It amazes me that you should be so gullible . . .
    Sorry Rich. Waikanae Watch isn't anything like you! We leave it up to you and your toxic Labour party to use disinformation to make you look good! We are never surprised at your gullibility ti believe anything Labour claims!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Crash@21:1/5 to All on Sun Sep 17 09:15:17 2023
    On Sat, 16 Sep 2023 20:54:43 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Mon, 11 Sep 2023 13:36:24 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 10 Sep 2023 23:44:28 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
    https://i0.wp.com/waikanaewatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/image2-55.png?ssl=1
    It amazes me how easy it is for Hipkins to be so mendacious.

    Hipkins is technically right in that no law was ever passed making >>vaccination mandatory, but those who were required to be vaccinated to
    keep their Government-funded jobs can quite justifiably say that
    getting vaccinated to keep your job is equivalent to a mandate.

    Well done Crash. I visited a retirement village earlier today to talk
    to a resident who had just returned from hospital - we were required
    to wear a mask, which we readily acceded to. The wearing of masks in
    the presence of vulnerable people has long been a requirement for
    medical staff and anyone assisting at for example an operation. The
    efficacy of mask wearing varies considerably, but for at least 50
    years it has been accepted as a reasonable precaution for operations.
    The requirement is enforced through a mixture of employer requirements
    and professional practice requirements. It is accepted as being
    reasonable by all but the most stupid. It became good practice to
    ear masks on busses, as having children and adults in close proximity
    in a bus was seen as a potential source of infection to be carried to
    others - it is from my observations still one of the most common
    places to see masks.

    You are correct Rich - but have posted to the wrong thread. This one
    is about vaccination mandates, not mask-wearing requirements.


    --
    Crash McBash

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to Rich80105@hotmail.com on Sat Sep 16 20:54:08 2023
    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Mon, 11 Sep 2023 04:07:14 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

    Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
    On Sun, 10 Sep 2023 23:44:28 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
    https://i0.wp.com/waikanaewatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/image2-55.png?ssl=1
    It amazes me how easy it is for Hipkins to be so mendacious.

    Hipkins is technically right in that no law was ever passed making >>>vaccination mandatory, but those who were required to be vaccinated to >>>keep their Government-funded jobs can quite justifiably say that
    getting vaccinated to keep your job is equivalent to a mandate.

    Yes of course it is, using the technicality is almost worse than a downright >>lie, it is at least as bad.

    Well that went right over your head, didn't it Tony. There is no lie
    except that on Waikanae Watch - you are confusing the deceptive
    "Right" with the 'right' answer given by Crash.
    Welcome back, the newsgroup is now back to where you shoved it over the years, you are always the first to become abusive demonstrated here nicely.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to Rich80105@hotmail.com on Sat Sep 16 20:51:39 2023
    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Sun, 10 Sep 2023 23:44:28 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

    https://i0.wp.com/waikanaewatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/image2-55.png?ssl=1
    It amazes me how easy it is for Hipkins to be so mendacious.

    I agree Tony - Waikanae Watch has in the past frequently included >deliberately misleading material, and this is another occasion. They
    may if challenged claim that the character is fictional, therefore the
    lie should not be taken seriously, but clearly it is intended that the >audience for the website would get fooled as you appear to have been.
    It amazes me that you should be so gullible . . .
    So you agree finally that Hipkins is mendacious. Well done.
    Interesting that we have had more than a week of your absence and not a single post from anyone that was unkind, slightly rude or abusive,
    Then you return and you are into the sarcasm and other abusiveness straight away. Your transparent lack of integrity and common courtesy is clear.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From James Christophers@21:1/5 to Crash on Sat Sep 16 15:00:50 2023
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 1:36:22 PM UTC+12, Crash wrote:
    On Sun, 10 Sep 2023 23:44:28 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

    https://i0.wp.com/waikanaewatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/image2-55.png?ssl=1
    It amazes me how easy it is for Hipkins to be so mendacious.
    Hipkins is technically right in that no law was ever passed making vaccination mandatory, but those who were required to be vaccinated to
    keep their Government-funded jobs can quite justifiably say that
    getting vaccinated to keep your job is equivalent to a mandate.

    'Terms and Conditions of Employment' covers it. No worries, then.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Crash@21:1/5 to jmschristophers@gmail.com on Sun Sep 17 10:26:58 2023
    On Sat, 16 Sep 2023 15:00:50 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers <jmschristophers@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 1:36:22?PM UTC+12, Crash wrote:
    On Sun, 10 Sep 2023 23:44:28 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

    https://i0.wp.com/waikanaewatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/image2-55.png?ssl=1
    It amazes me how easy it is for Hipkins to be so mendacious.
    Hipkins is technically right in that no law was ever passed making
    vaccination mandatory, but those who were required to be vaccinated to
    keep their Government-funded jobs can quite justifiably say that
    getting vaccinated to keep your job is equivalent to a mandate.

    'Terms and Conditions of Employment' covers it. No worries, then.

    Employment Ts&Cs content is permanent and can only be changed by
    mutual consent. The vaccination mandates were temporary (new removed)
    and imposed without any attempt to gain consent.


    --
    Crash McBash

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to lizandtony@orcon.net.nz on Sun Sep 17 11:53:21 2023
    On Sat, 16 Sep 2023 20:51:39 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Sun, 10 Sep 2023 23:44:28 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
    https://i0.wp.com/waikanaewatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/image2-55.png?ssl=1
    It amazes me how easy it is for Hipkins to be so mendacious.

    I agree Tony - Waikanae Watch has in the past frequently included >>deliberately misleading material, and this is another occasion. They
    may if challenged claim that the character is fictional, therefore the
    lie should not be taken seriously, but clearly it is intended that the >>audience for the website would get fooled as you appear to have been.
    It amazes me that you should be so gullible . . .
    So you agree finally that Hipkins is mendacious. Well done.
    No I do not; I was pointing out that the article is deliberately
    misleading - including statements about politicians.


    Interesting that we have had more than a week of your absence and not a single >post from anyone that was unkind, slightly rude or abusive,
    Then you return and you are into the sarcasm and other abusiveness straight >away. Your transparent lack of integrity and common courtesy is clear.

    The post I was replying to deliberately gave a link that is itself
    lacking in integrity; but I find it not surprising at all that you
    have no capacity for critical thinking; but just lash out at other
    posters. You confirm your gullibility . . .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to jmschristophers@gmail.com on Sun Sep 17 11:57:32 2023
    On Sat, 16 Sep 2023 15:00:50 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers <jmschristophers@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 1:36:22?PM UTC+12, Crash wrote:
    On Sun, 10 Sep 2023 23:44:28 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

    https://i0.wp.com/waikanaewatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/image2-55.png?ssl=1
    It amazes me how easy it is for Hipkins to be so mendacious.
    Hipkins is technically right in that no law was ever passed making
    vaccination mandatory, but those who were required to be vaccinated to
    keep their Government-funded jobs can quite justifiably say that
    getting vaccinated to keep your job is equivalent to a mandate.

    'Terms and Conditions of Employment' covers it. No worries, then.

    And such terms were enthusiastically adopted by most if not all GP
    surgeries, and many other businesses. Apparently there was a cafe on
    the West Coast that advertised they did not require masks to be worn,
    and then had to close when too many customers caught Covid . . .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to Rich80105@hotmail.com on Sun Sep 17 00:13:19 2023
    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Sat, 16 Sep 2023 20:51:39 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Sun, 10 Sep 2023 23:44:28 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
    https://i0.wp.com/waikanaewatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/image2-55.png?ssl=1
    It amazes me how easy it is for Hipkins to be so mendacious.

    I agree Tony - Waikanae Watch has in the past frequently included >>>deliberately misleading material, and this is another occasion. They
    may if challenged claim that the character is fictional, therefore the >>>lie should not be taken seriously, but clearly it is intended that the >>>audience for the website would get fooled as you appear to have been.
    It amazes me that you should be so gullible . . .
    So you agree finally that Hipkins is mendacious. Well done.
    No I do not; I was pointing out that the article is deliberately
    misleading - including statements about politicians.


    Interesting that we have had more than a week of your absence and not a >>single
    post from anyone that was unkind, slightly rude or abusive,
    Then you return and you are into the sarcasm and other abusiveness straight >>away. Your transparent lack of integrity and common courtesy is clear.

    The post I was replying to deliberately gave a link that is itself
    lacking in integrity; but I find it not surprising at all that you
    have no capacity for critical thinking; but just lash out at other
    posters. You confirm your gullibility . . .
    Not at all. I never lash out. It is you that is so immature that you cannot avoid abusing those that have different opinions.
    You returned from your absence from the group and immediately the abuse started again. I rest my case.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to Crash on Sat Sep 16 23:30:35 2023
    Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
    On Sat, 16 Sep 2023 15:00:50 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers ><jmschristophers@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 1:36:22?PM UTC+12, Crash wrote:
    On Sun, 10 Sep 2023 23:44:28 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:


    https://i0.wp.com/waikanaewatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/image2-55.png?ssl=1
    It amazes me how easy it is for Hipkins to be so mendacious.
    Hipkins is technically right in that no law was ever passed making
    vaccination mandatory, but those who were required to be vaccinated to
    keep their Government-funded jobs can quite justifiably say that
    getting vaccinated to keep your job is equivalent to a mandate.

    'Terms and Conditions of Employment' covers it. No worries, then.

    Employment Ts&Cs content is permanent and can only be changed by
    mutual consent. The vaccination mandates were temporary (new removed)
    and imposed without any attempt to gain consent.

    Exactly correct.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to Rich80105@hotmail.com on Sun Sep 17 00:16:06 2023
    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Sat, 16 Sep 2023 15:00:50 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers ><jmschristophers@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 1:36:22?PM UTC+12, Crash wrote:
    On Sun, 10 Sep 2023 23:44:28 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:


    https://i0.wp.com/waikanaewatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/image2-55.png?ssl=1
    It amazes me how easy it is for Hipkins to be so mendacious.
    Hipkins is technically right in that no law was ever passed making
    vaccination mandatory, but those who were required to be vaccinated to
    keep their Government-funded jobs can quite justifiably say that
    getting vaccinated to keep your job is equivalent to a mandate.

    'Terms and Conditions of Employment' covers it. No worries, then.

    And such terms were enthusiastically adopted by most if not all GP
    surgeries, and many other businesses. Apparently there was a cafe on
    the West Coast that advertised they did not require masks to be worn,
    and then had to close when too many customers caught Covid . . .
    Mask mandates had nothing at all to do with terms and conditions of employment other than in the medical prfofessions.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to Rich80105@hotmail.com on Sun Sep 17 00:51:38 2023
    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Sat, 16 Sep 2023 20:51:39 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Sun, 10 Sep 2023 23:44:28 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
    https://i0.wp.com/waikanaewatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/image2-55.png?ssl=1
    It amazes me how easy it is for Hipkins to be so mendacious.

    I agree Tony - Waikanae Watch has in the past frequently included >>>deliberately misleading material, and this is another occasion. They
    may if challenged claim that the character is fictional, therefore the >>>lie should not be taken seriously, but clearly it is intended that the >>>audience for the website would get fooled as you appear to have been.
    It amazes me that you should be so gullible . . .
    So you agree finally that Hipkins is mendacious. Well done.
    No I do not; I was pointing out that the article is deliberately
    misleading - including statements about politicians.
    No it is not!


    Interesting that we have had more than a week of your absence and not a >>single
    post from anyone that was unkind, slightly rude or abusive,
    Then you return and you are into the sarcasm and other abusiveness straight >>away. Your transparent lack of integrity and common courtesy is clear.

    The post I was replying to deliberately gave a link that is itself
    lacking in integrity; but I find it not surprising at all that you
    have no capacity for critical thinking; but just lash out at other
    posters. You confirm your gullibility . . .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From James Christophers@21:1/5 to Crash on Sat Sep 16 19:09:22 2023
    On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 10:26:54 AM UTC+12, Crash wrote:
    On Sat, 16 Sep 2023 15:00:50 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers <jmschri...@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 1:36:22?PM UTC+12, Crash wrote:
    On Sun, 10 Sep 2023 23:44:28 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

    https://i0.wp.com/waikanaewatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/image2-55.png?ssl=1
    It amazes me how easy it is for Hipkins to be so mendacious.
    Hipkins is technically right in that no law was ever passed making
    vaccination mandatory, but those who were required to be vaccinated to
    keep their Government-funded jobs can quite justifiably say that
    getting vaccinated to keep your job is equivalent to a mandate.

    'Terms and Conditions of Employment' covers it. No worries, then.
    Employment Ts&Cs content is permanent and can only be changed by
    mutual consent. The vaccination mandates were temporary (new removed)
    and imposed without any attempt to gain consent.

    As with Covid, in a fast-changing crisis where public safety and protection (esp. of the most vulnerable) are all, speed of decision-making and implementation are of the essence, such being the case on many occasions during the Covid crisis, particularly
    while the nation was getting itself sorted during the early stages and then continually modifying its approach to meet the pandemic's capricious demands.

    Yes, mistakes will be made - how could it be otherwise? Moreover, it is perfectly realistic to expect it to be no other way.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Willy Nilly@21:1/5 to jmschristophers@gmail.com on Sun Sep 17 03:33:58 2023
    On Sat, 16 Sep 2023 19:09:22 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers <jmschristophers@gmail.com> wrote:
    Yes, mistakes will be made - how could it be otherwise? Moreover, it is per= >fectly realistic to expect it to be no other way.

    But *mandating* those mistakes is beyond the pale, and inexcusable.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)