XPost: nz.politics

https://thebfd.co.nz/2023/08/17/truth-takes-time/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=truth-takes-time
The power of the big pharmas kept the truth hidden.
People should be going to prison because of this.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 9:15:25 AM UTC+12, Tony wrote:

https://thebfd.co.nz/2023/08/17/truth-takes-time/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=truth-takes-time
The power of the big pharmas kept the truth hidden.
People should be going to prison because of this.

I'm hoping National will do an investigation of Labours stupid and in place illegal response to covid.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:15:23 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

https://thebfd.co.nz/2023/08/17/truth-takes-time/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=truth-takes-time
The power of the big pharmas kept the truth hidden.
People should be going to prison because of this.

So now you are a fan of ivermectin . . . perhaps because (from the
article): During mass IVM treatments in Peru, excess deaths fell by a
mean of 74% over 30 days in its ten states with the most extensive
treatments.

If a reduction of 74% is good, how about around 100% or even more? https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cumulative-excess-mortality-p-scores-projected-baseline?tab=chart&country=USA~NZL~AUS~GBR

So the results for New Zealand were better than relying solely on
Invermectin which at that time was not recommended for treatment of
Covid, or to prevent deaths from Covid. We do not know whether
Ivermectin prevents death but does not affect long Covid in those so
afflicted, either.

I suspect most New Zealanders would be happy with the results in the
graph I have cited above. What do you think gave us such good results
in saving lives, Tony?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 9:57:45 AM UTC+12, Rich80105 wrote:

On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:15:23 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

https://thebfd.co.nz/2023/08/17/truth-takes-time/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=truth-takes-time
The power of the big pharmas kept the truth hidden.
People should be going to prison because of this.

So now you are a fan of ivermectin . . . perhaps because (from the
article): During mass IVM treatments in Peru, excess deaths fell by a
mean of 74% over 30 days in its ten states with the most extensive treatments.

Perhaps because he isn't dumb enough like you to believe everything your feral and useless Labour government demands Rich!

If a reduction of 74% is good, how about around 100% or even more? https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cumulative-excess-mortality-p-scores-projected-baseline?tab=chart&country=USA~NZL~AUS~GBR

So the results for New Zealand were better than relying solely on Invermectin which at that time was not recommended for treatment of
Covid, or to prevent deaths from Covid. We do not know whether
Ivermectin prevents death but does not affect long Covid in those so afflicted, either.

Without the government allowing the use of ivermectin your claim is just another lie from you Rich!

I suspect most New Zealanders would be happy with the results in the
graph I have cited above. What do you think gave us such good results
in saving lives, Tony?

Take your sycophantic crap and piss off Rich! As usual your flogging a dead horse.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:15:23 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

https://thebfd.co.nz/2023/08/17/truth-takes-time/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=truth-takes-time
The power of the big pharmas kept the truth hidden.
People should be going to prison because of this.

So now you are a fan of ivermectin .

Don't you dare to believe that you know me - you cretin.

. . perhaps because (from the

article): During mass IVM treatments in Peru, excess deaths fell by a
mean of 74% over 30 days in its ten states with the most extensive >treatments.

If a reduction of 74% is good, how about around 100% or even more? >https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cumulative-excess-mortality-p-scores-projected-baseline?tab=chart&country=USA~NZL~AUS~GBR

Completely off topic. It does not demonstrate anything about IVM.

So the results for New Zealand were better than relying solely on
Invermectin which at that time was not recommended for treatment of
Covid, or to prevent deaths from Covid.

Not true, another lie.

We do not know whether
Ivermectin prevents death but does not affect long Covid in those so >afflicted, either.

So you know better than the author of the report and the peer reviewers. Jolly good, time you edxplaioned how that works.

I suspect most New Zealanders would be happy with the results in the
graph I have cited above. What do you think gave us such good results
in saving lives, Tony?

Our results were nowhere near as good as they should have been. The article demonstrates that. We were lied to, but you sucked it up and are still doing so.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:

On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:15:23 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

https://thebfd.co.nz/2023/08/17/truth-takes-time/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=truth-takes-time
The power of the big pharmas kept the truth hidden.
People should be going to prison because of this.

While interesting, it is worth noting why we had compulsory treatment
options for COVID19. This is not covered much in this article.

The NZ Health system is universal - if you present to a hospital or GP
you will receive treatment regardless of the cause of your illness.
Using unapproved drugs or treatments may result in health harm that
should be considered self-inflicted - but if you show up for treatment
you will be treated, potentially blocking out time to treat others who
used only approved treatments.

The COVID19 pandemic measures were simply universal and designed to
protect our health system from being swamped in total. That is a
prudent general approach.

Whether the Government made the right choices in respect of lockdowns, >vaccines and everything else associated with the COVID19 pandemic is
another matter that should be fully reviewed.

That is why I posted this Crash. There is a reluctance to actually review the approach we took, I believe that must change.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:15:23 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

https://thebfd.co.nz/2023/08/17/truth-takes-time/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=truth-takes-time
The power of the big pharmas kept the truth hidden.
People should be going to prison because of this.

While interesting, it is worth noting why we had compulsory treatment
options for COVID19. This is not covered much in this article.

The NZ Health system is universal - if you present to a hospital or GP
you will receive treatment regardless of the cause of your illness.
Using unapproved drugs or treatments may result in health harm that
should be considered self-inflicted - but if you show up for treatment
you will be treated, potentially blocking out time to treat others who
used only approved treatments.

The COVID19 pandemic measures were simply universal and designed to
protect our health system from being swamped in total. That is a
prudent general approach.

Whether the Government made the right choices in respect of lockdowns,
vaccines and everything else associated with the COVID19 pandemic is
another matter that should be fully reviewed.


--
Crash McBash

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 23:05:46 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:

On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:15:23 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

https://thebfd.co.nz/2023/08/17/truth-takes-time/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=truth-takes-time

The power of the big pharmas kept the truth hidden.
People should be going to prison because of this.

While interesting, it is worth noting why we had compulsory treatment >>options for COVID19. This is not covered much in this article.

The NZ Health system is universal - if you present to a hospital or GP
you will receive treatment regardless of the cause of your illness.
Using unapproved drugs or treatments may result in health harm that
should be considered self-inflicted - but if you show up for treatment
you will be treated, potentially blocking out time to treat others who
used only approved treatments.

The COVID19 pandemic measures were simply universal and designed to
protect our health system from being swamped in total. That is a
prudent general approach.

Whether the Government made the right choices in respect of lockdowns, >>vaccines and everything else associated with the COVID19 pandemic is >>another matter that should be fully reviewed.

That is why I posted this Crash. There is a reluctance to actually review the >approach we took, I believe that must change.

There is already a review under way, Tony. It is possible that if
National become government they would stop it as it is likely to
confirm that the overall result for New Zealand of the actions taken
was world-leading in terms of minimising deaths, and very good as far
as the economic response which resulted in us being ahead of most
countries in terms of keeping people in work, keeping company profits
high and hence keeping the financial cost to government capital levels
lower than it would otherwise have been. Let us hope that the review
is allowed to proceed regardless of who forms government later this
year.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 22:12:09 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:15:23 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

https://thebfd.co.nz/2023/08/17/truth-takes-time/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=truth-takes-time

The power of the big pharmas kept the truth hidden.
People should be going to prison because of this.

So now you are a fan of ivermectin .

Don't you dare to believe that you know me - you cretin.

. . perhaps because (from the

article): During mass IVM treatments in Peru, excess deaths fell by a
mean of 74% over 30 days in its ten states with the most extensive >>treatments.

If a reduction of 74% is good, how about around 100% or even more? >>https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cumulative-excess-mortality-p-scores-projected-baseline?tab=chart&country=USA~NZL~AUS~GBR

Completely off topic. It does not demonstrate anything about IVM.

You posted an article about Ivermectin that claimed a 74% reduction in
excess deaths. I showed you that New Zealand achieved a better than
100% reduction in deaths (and now sitting at near zero excess deaths.

That is a legitimate comparison, Tony.

So the results for New Zealand were better than relying solely on >>Invermectin which at that time was not recommended for treatment of
Covid, or to prevent deaths from Covid.

Not true, another lie.

So you assert - what reasons do you have for that statement, Tony?

We do not know whether
Ivermectin prevents death but does not affect long Covid in those so >>afflicted, either.

So you know better than the author of the report and the peer reviewers. Jolly >good, time you edxplaioned how that works.

I made no such claim - I was merely pointing out that more people
catching Covid but fewer dying from it may not eliminate other effects
of Covid. Long Covid is not nice . . .

I suspect most New Zealanders would be happy with the results in the
graph I have cited above. What do you think gave us such good results
in saving lives, Tony?

Our results were nowhere near as good as they should have been. The article >demonstrates that. We were lied to, but you sucked it up and are still doing so.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 23:05:46 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:

On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:15:23 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

https://thebfd.co.nz/2023/08/17/truth-takes-time/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=truth-takes-time

The power of the big pharmas kept the truth hidden.
People should be going to prison because of this.

While interesting, it is worth noting why we had compulsory treatment >>>options for COVID19. This is not covered much in this article.

The NZ Health system is universal - if you present to a hospital or GP >>>you will receive treatment regardless of the cause of your illness.
Using unapproved drugs or treatments may result in health harm that >>>should be considered self-inflicted - but if you show up for treatment >>>you will be treated, potentially blocking out time to treat others who >>>used only approved treatments.

The COVID19 pandemic measures were simply universal and designed to >>>protect our health system from being swamped in total. That is a
prudent general approach.

Whether the Government made the right choices in respect of lockdowns, >>>vaccines and everything else associated with the COVID19 pandemic is >>>another matter that should be fully reviewed.

That is why I posted this Crash. There is a reluctance to actually review the >>approach we took, I believe that must change.

There is already a review under way, Tony. It is possible that if
National become government Yadee yadee ya.

You lie by omission. The current review is far too restricted in scope. National are nothing to do with this thread.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 22:12:09 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:15:23 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

https://thebfd.co.nz/2023/08/17/truth-takes-time/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=truth-takes-time

The power of the big pharmas kept the truth hidden.
People should be going to prison because of this.

So now you are a fan of ivermectin .

Don't you dare to believe that you know me - you cretin.

. . perhaps because (from the

article): During mass IVM treatments in Peru, excess deaths fell by a >>>mean of 74% over 30 days in its ten states with the most extensive >>>treatments.

If a reduction of 74% is good, how about around 100% or even more? >>>https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cumulative-excess-mortality-p-scores-projected-baseline?tab=chart&country=USA~NZL~AUS~GBR

Completely off topic. It does not demonstrate anything about IVM.

You posted an article about Ivermectin that claimed a 74% reduction in
excess deaths. I showed you that New Zealand achieved a better than
100% reduction in deaths (and now sitting at near zero excess deaths.

That is a legitimate comparison, Tony.

Bullshit, you couldn't compare a chicken and a pig.
Your article does not mention IVM therefore it is not coparing anything. You cannot use logic at all can you?

So the results for New Zealand were better than relying solely on >>>Invermectin which at that time was not recommended for treatment of >>>Covid, or to prevent deaths from Covid.

Not true, another lie.

So you assert - what reasons do you have for that statement, Tony?

No you prove what you wrote.

We do not know whether
Ivermectin prevents death but does not affect long Covid in those so >>>afflicted, either.

So you know better than the author of the report and the peer reviewers. >>Jolly
good, time you edxplaioned how that works.

I made no such claim - I was merely pointing out that more people
catching Covid but fewer dying from it may not eliminate other effects
of Covid. Long Covid is not nice . . .

Yes you did claim that in effect. And you know it. You refuse to accept the learned findings of people significantly more competent than you could ever be - therefore you pretend to know more than them.

I suspect most New Zealanders would be happy with the results in the >>>graph I have cited above. What do you think gave us such good results
in saving lives, Tony?

You graph does not in any way negate the article I cited, grow up little boy. >>Our results were nowhere near as good as they should have been. The article >>demonstrates that. We were lied to, but you sucked it up and are still doing >>so.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 11:42:48 AM UTC+12, Rich80105 wrote:

On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 22:12:09 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:15:23 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

https://thebfd.co.nz/2023/08/17/truth-takes-time/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=truth-takes-time

The power of the big pharmas kept the truth hidden.
People should be going to prison because of this.

So now you are a fan of ivermectin .

Don't you dare to believe that you know me - you cretin.

. . perhaps because (from the

article): During mass IVM treatments in Peru, excess deaths fell by a >>mean of 74% over 30 days in its ten states with the most extensive >>treatments.

If a reduction of 74% is good, how about around 100% or even more? >>https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cumulative-excess-mortality-p-scores-projected-baseline?tab=chart&country=USA~NZL~AUS~GBR

Completely off topic. It does not demonstrate anything about IVM.

You posted an article about Ivermectin that claimed a 74% reduction in excess deaths. I showed you that New Zealand achieved a better than
100% reduction in deaths (and now sitting at near zero excess deaths.

A better than 100% reduction in deaths? Don't be fucking stupider than usual Rich! The death rate has been up since covid so your comment here is just another stupid lie from a serial liar!

That is a legitimate comparison, Tony.

It's bullshit Rich! typical of the crap you post in a vain effort to deny Labour fucked up the whole covid response!

So the results for New Zealand were better than relying solely on >>Invermectin which at that time was not recommended for treatment of >>Covid, or to prevent deaths from Covid.

Not true, another lie.

So you assert - what reasons do you have for that statement, Tony?

We do not know whether
Ivermectin prevents death but does not affect long Covid in those so >>afflicted, either.

So you know better than the author of the report and the peer reviewers. Jolly
good, time you edxplaioned how that works.

I made no such claim - I was merely pointing out that more people
catching Covid but fewer dying from it may not eliminate other effects
of Covid. Long Covid is not nice . . .

I suspect most New Zealanders would be happy with the results in the >>graph I have cited above. What do you think gave us such good results
in saving lives, Tony?

Our results were nowhere near as good as they should have been. The article >demonstrates that. We were lied to, but you sucked it up and are still doing so.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2023-08-18, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:15:23 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

https://thebfd.co.nz/2023/08/17/truth-takes-time/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=truth-takes-time
The power of the big pharmas kept the truth hidden.
People should be going to prison because of this.

So now you are a fan of ivermectin . . . perhaps because (from the
article): During mass IVM treatments in Peru, excess deaths fell by a
mean of 74% over 30 days in its ten states with the most extensive treatments.

If a reduction of 74% is good, how about around 100% or even more? https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cumulative-excess-mortality-p-scores-projected-baseline?tab=chart&country=USA~NZL~AUS~GBR

So the results for New Zealand were better than relying solely on
Invermectin which at that time was not recommended for treatment of
Covid, or to prevent deaths from Covid. We do not know whether
Ivermectin prevents death but does not affect long Covid in those so afflicted, either.

I suspect most New Zealanders would be happy with the results in the
graph I have cited above. What do you think gave us such good results
in saving lives, Tony?

The point is Rich, is that IVM was used and it was having good results, the
so called conspiricay folks pointed this out and then were totally shut down
by the covid Narrative. Nope, not allowed to even consider this.

Rich, what do think are causing all the excess deaths around the world, including NZ?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2023-08-18, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:

On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:15:23 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

https://thebfd.co.nz/2023/08/17/truth-takes-time/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=truth-takes-time

The power of the big pharmas kept the truth hidden.
People should be going to prison because of this.

While interesting, it is worth noting why we had compulsory treatment >>options for COVID19. This is not covered much in this article.

The NZ Health system is universal - if you present to a hospital or GP
you will receive treatment regardless of the cause of your illness.
Using unapproved drugs or treatments may result in health harm that
should be considered self-inflicted - but if you show up for treatment
you will be treated, potentially blocking out time to treat others who
used only approved treatments.

The COVID19 pandemic measures were simply universal and designed to
protect our health system from being swamped in total. That is a
prudent general approach.

Whether the Government made the right choices in respect of lockdowns, >>vaccines and everything else associated with the COVID19 pandemic is >>another matter that should be fully reviewed.

That is why I posted this Crash. There is a reluctance to actually review the approach we took, I believe that must change.

We were promised a royal comission which might sort this mess out.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2023-08-18, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

https://thebfd.co.nz/2023/08/17/truth-takes-time/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=truth-takes-time
The power of the big pharmas kept the truth hidden.
People should be going to prison because of this.

There is enough evidence to show that some humans have known about
information which should have been released to the public. The dawn of realisation has yet to arrive but when it does things are going to get
really out of hand.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:

On 2023-08-18, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:

On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:15:23 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

https://thebfd.co.nz/2023/08/17/truth-takes-time/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=truth-takes-time

The power of the big pharmas kept the truth hidden.
People should be going to prison because of this.

While interesting, it is worth noting why we had compulsory treatment >>>options for COVID19. This is not covered much in this article.

The NZ Health system is universal - if you present to a hospital or GP >>>you will receive treatment regardless of the cause of your illness.
Using unapproved drugs or treatments may result in health harm that >>>should be considered self-inflicted - but if you show up for treatment >>>you will be treated, potentially blocking out time to treat others who >>>used only approved treatments.

The COVID19 pandemic measures were simply universal and designed to >>>protect our health system from being swamped in total. That is a
prudent general approach.

Whether the Government made the right choices in respect of lockdowns, >>>vaccines and everything else associated with the COVID19 pandemic is >>>another matter that should be fully reviewed.

That is why I posted this Crash. There is a reluctance to actually review >>the
approach we took, I believe that must change.

We were promised a royal comission which might sort this mess out.

I don't see it, do you?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 19:34:42 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
<bowesjohn02@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 11:42:48?AM UTC+12, Rich80105 wrote:

On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 22:12:09 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:15:23 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

https://thebfd.co.nz/2023/08/17/truth-takes-time/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=truth-takes-time
The power of the big pharmas kept the truth hidden.
People should be going to prison because of this.

So now you are a fan of ivermectin .

Don't you dare to believe that you know me - you cretin.

. . perhaps because (from the

article): During mass IVM treatments in Peru, excess deaths fell by a
mean of 74% over 30 days in its ten states with the most extensive
treatments.

If a reduction of 74% is good, how about around 100% or even more?
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cumulative-excess-mortality-p-scores-projected-baseline?tab=chart&country=USA~NZL~AUS~GBR

Completely off topic. It does not demonstrate anything about IVM.

You posted an article about Ivermectin that claimed a 74% reduction in
excess deaths. I showed you that New Zealand achieved a better than
100% reduction in excess deaths (and now sitting at near zero excess deaths.

A better than 100% reduction in deaths? Don't be fucking stupider than usual Rich! The death rate has been up since covid so your comment here is just another stupid lie from a serial liar!

What it means, John, is that as well as not losing lives through
Covid, we also had fewer deaths from normal winter ailments and road
accidents for example - so we had fewer deaths then would have been
expected based on pre-covid mortality. Look at the graph I posted
above and draw your own conclusions.

That is a legitimate comparison, Tony.

It's bullshit Rich! typical of the crap you post in a vain effort to deny Labour fucked up the whole covid response!

So the results for New Zealand were better than relying solely on
Invermectin which at that time was not recommended for treatment of
Covid, or to prevent deaths from Covid.

Not true, another lie.

So you assert - what reasons do you have for that statement, Tony?

We do not know whether
Ivermectin prevents death but does not affect long Covid in those so
afflicted, either.

So you know better than the author of the report and the peer reviewers. Jolly
good, time you edxplaioned how that works.

I made no such claim - I was merely pointing out that more people
catching Covid but fewer dying from it may not eliminate other effects
of Covid. Long Covid is not nice . . .

I suspect most New Zealanders would be happy with the results in the
graph I have cited above. What do you think gave us such good results
in saving lives, Tony?

Our results were nowhere near as good as they should have been. The article >> >demonstrates that. We were lied to, but you sucked it up and are still doing so.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 19 Aug 2023 03:33:14 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:

On 2023-08-18, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:15:23 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

https://thebfd.co.nz/2023/08/17/truth-takes-time/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=truth-takes-time

The power of the big pharmas kept the truth hidden.
People should be going to prison because of this.

So now you are a fan of ivermectin . . . perhaps because (from the
article): During mass IVM treatments in Peru, excess deaths fell by a
mean of 74% over 30 days in its ten states with the most extensive
treatments.

If a reduction of 74% is good, how about around 100% or even more?
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cumulative-excess-mortality-p-scores-projected-baseline?tab=chart&country=USA~NZL~AUS~GBR

So the results for New Zealand were better than relying solely on
Invermectin which at that time was not recommended for treatment of
Covid, or to prevent deaths from Covid. We do not know whether
Ivermectin prevents death but does not affect long Covid in those so
afflicted, either.

I suspect most New Zealanders would be happy with the results in the
graph I have cited above. What do you think gave us such good results
in saving lives, Tony?

The point is Rich, is that IVM was used and it was having good results, the >so called conspiricay folks pointed this out and then were totally shut down >by the covid Narrative. Nope, not allowed to even consider this.

Rich, what do think are causing all the excess deaths around the world, >including NZ?

Before I get to that last question, in view of the Peru study referred
to, I have added their results to the comparison of excess deaths : https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cumulative-excess-mortality-p-scores-projected-baseline?tab=chart&country=USA~NZL~AUS~GBR~PER

Clearly Peru had a different (and worse) experience from Covid than
New Zealand, which may have been for a variety of reasons. It is not
clear about the timing of the Ivermectin trials in Peru. We do not
have results for Peru after October 2022 either - but at the time when
data stopped for them, they were experiencing excess mortality of 41%,
compared with 4% for Australia and -1% for New Zealand (put the cursor
over the end of the Peru line to get the results for all countries
shown at that date.) We do know that there were many influences on
infection rates - the extent of travel, susceptibility due to age,
general physical fitness, concentration of living conditions, etc,
etc. Through 2020 / 2021 we had travel restrictions and a campaign to
get vaccinated; they affected our results, and so cannot be clear
about the extent to which any one factor reduced deaths - compared
with Peru for example the effort put into hospital admissions may have
been a major difference in saving lives, if not infection rates.


Gordon, you are correct in saying that we are still seeing deaths from
Covid, although they are still at low rates in New Zealand because of
general vaccination levels, and also a culture of self-isolating from
travel and workplaces while infected, but clearly from the graphs we
are still experiencing deaths from Covid while also returning to more
'normal' levels of deaths from other infectious diseases, traffic
deaths and accidents (work and recreational). Add to that the
possibility that the "Freedum" nutters may be taking fewer precautions
against infection (there was anecdotally a large number of infections
and hospital admissions at or from the Parliament protests for
example), our deaths are marginally higher than pre-Covid now.

So in summary, there are a range of reasons for all the excess deaths
around the world, including New Zealand, but the most common reason is
that Covid is still a real risk, with new variants emerging, albeit
with most of these short lived; but that in many advanced countries,
deaths are slowly returning to pre-covid levels as many maintain
vaccinated status, as some of those that catch covid retain some
protection for at least a period after recovery, but we are also
getting long Covid emerging which will shorten lives for some.

Ivermectin seems to be a distraction if anything - we have yet to see comparative trials against other vaccines (and I do not know if there
are significant other risks with Ivermectin - the high rates of deaths
in Peru may indicate that their different experience may be a long
term effect of not using the same vaccines that we have.

Good to see New Zealand well up in world rankings for continuing to
avoid high death rates for our people though, isn't it?

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On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 5:18:49 PM UTC+12, Rich80105 wrote:

On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 19:34:42 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
<bowes...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 11:42:48?AM UTC+12, Rich80105 wrote:

On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 22:12:09 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:15:23 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

https://thebfd.co.nz/2023/08/17/truth-takes-time/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=truth-takes-time
The power of the big pharmas kept the truth hidden.
People should be going to prison because of this.

So now you are a fan of ivermectin .

Don't you dare to believe that you know me - you cretin.

. . perhaps because (from the

article): During mass IVM treatments in Peru, excess deaths fell by a >> >>mean of 74% over 30 days in its ten states with the most extensive
treatments.

If a reduction of 74% is good, how about around 100% or even more?
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cumulative-excess-mortality-p-scores-projected-baseline?tab=chart&country=USA~NZL~AUS~GBR

Completely off topic. It does not demonstrate anything about IVM.

You posted an article about Ivermectin that claimed a 74% reduction in
excess deaths. I showed you that New Zealand achieved a better than
100% reduction in excess deaths (and now sitting at near zero excess deaths.

A better than 100% reduction in deaths? Don't be fucking stupider than usual Rich! The death rate has been up since covid so your comment here is just another stupid lie from a serial liar!

What it means, John, is that as well as not losing lives through
Covid, we also had fewer deaths from normal winter ailments and road accidents for example - so we had fewer deaths then would have been
expected based on pre-covid mortality. Look at the graph I posted
above and draw your own conclusions.

What it means Rich is that the truth is out and Labours draconian and anti freedom, moves achieved nothing! People died yes. However we only have the word of liars like you and Ardern that thousands were saved!

That is a legitimate comparison, Tony.

It's bullshit Rich! typical of the crap you post in a vain effort to deny Labour fucked up the whole covid response!

So the results for New Zealand were better than relying solely on
Invermectin which at that time was not recommended for treatment of
Covid, or to prevent deaths from Covid.

Not true, another lie.

So you assert - what reasons do you have for that statement, Tony?

We do not know whether
Ivermectin prevents death but does not affect long Covid in those so
afflicted, either.

So you know better than the author of the report and the peer reviewers. Jolly
good, time you edxplaioned how that works.

I made no such claim - I was merely pointing out that more people
catching Covid but fewer dying from it may not eliminate other effects
of Covid. Long Covid is not nice . . .

I suspect most New Zealanders would be happy with the results in the
graph I have cited above. What do you think gave us such good results >> >>in saving lives, Tony?

Our results were nowhere near as good as they should have been. The article
demonstrates that. We were lied to, but you sucked it up and are still doing so.

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