Remember the promises: No new Taxes; GST will not be increased?
John Key and Bill English are long gone, but here is the track record
of National when last in Government:

1. GST increase from 12.5% to 15%
2. Increased taxes on KiwiSaver
3. Compulsory student loan payment increase from 10% to 12%
4. Increased tertiary fees
5. The 2012 'Paperboy' tax
6. Civil Aviation Authority fees rise
7. Additional fuel tax increase of 9 cents with annual CPI increases
locked in for perpetuity
8. Road User Charges increased
9. New annual student loan fees introduced
10. Massive unnecessary ACC levy increases
11. Prescription fees increased by 66%
12. New online company filing fees imposed on businesses
13. Creeping expansion of the scope of Fringe Benefit Taxes - National
tried to tax car parks and plain-clothes police uniforms
14. Lowering of Working for Families abatement threshold and
increasing the abatement rate, taking money out of the pockets of
families
15. Imposing a $900 Family Court fee
16. Annual increase on excise duty to alcohol 1 July each year
17. 10% increase in tobacco tax 1 January every year
18. Two Year Brightline test Capital Gains tax
19. Border airport levy for customs
20. Airport departure tax
21. Netflix tax
22. Fire Service levy to finance Fire Service Restructure

So now they are making another promise: They _will_ remove the top tax
rate - so those earning over $180,000 taxable income will only pay 33
% on income over that level instead of 39%.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

Remember the promises: No new Taxes; GST will not be increased?
John Key and Bill English are long gone, but here is the track record
of National when last in Government:

1. GST increase from 12.5% to 15%
2. Increased taxes on KiwiSaver
3. Compulsory student loan payment increase from 10% to 12%
4. Increased tertiary fees
5. The 2012 'Paperboy' tax
6. Civil Aviation Authority fees rise
7. Additional fuel tax increase of 9 cents with annual CPI increases
locked in for perpetuity
8. Road User Charges increased
9. New annual student loan fees introduced
10. Massive unnecessary ACC levy increases
11. Prescription fees increased by 66%
12. New online company filing fees imposed on businesses
13. Creeping expansion of the scope of Fringe Benefit Taxes - National
tried to tax car parks and plain-clothes police uniforms
14. Lowering of Working for Families abatement threshold and
increasing the abatement rate, taking money out of the pockets of
families
15. Imposing a $900 Family Court fee
16. Annual increase on excise duty to alcohol 1 July each year
17. 10% increase in tobacco tax 1 January every year
18. Two Year Brightline test Capital Gains tax
19. Border airport levy for customs
20. Airport departure tax
21. Netflix tax
22. Fire Service levy to finance Fire Service Restructure

So now they are making another promise: They _will_ remove the top tax
rate - so those earning over $180,000 taxable income will only pay 33
% on income over that level instead of 39%.

An inmpartial person would provide the same data for the Labour led government since 2017.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2023-07-22, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

Remember the promises: No new Taxes; GST will not be increased?
John Key and Bill English are long gone, but here is the track record
of National when last in Government:

1. GST increase from 12.5% to 15%

It has been pointed out that everyone pays GST. it is hard to advoid.

2. Increased taxes on KiwiSaver
3. Compulsory student loan payment increase from 10% to 12%

Well, it has to be paid back and there seemed to be a move that the pay back was not happening fast enough.

4. Increased tertiary fees
5. The 2012 'Paperboy' tax

This one is almost poorly thought out as the present governments proposals.

6. Civil Aviation Authority fees rise

Probably because they had not been raied for many years.

7. Additional fuel tax increase of 9 cents with annual CPI increases
locked in for perpetuity

Look at that, a head of the times.

8. Road User Charges increased

Once again, needed to create an improvement to our roads.

9. New annual student loan fees introduced
10. Massive unnecessary ACC levy increases

Unecessary? Has the present Government lowered them to present levels?

11. Prescription fees increased by 66%

A whole $2. Sure alot of many for sum, but probably in rate with inflation.

12. New online company filing fees imposed on businesses

And to think that National is a business friendly party.

13. Creeping expansion of the scope of Fringe Benefit Taxes - National >>tried to tax car parks and plain-clothes police uniforms
14. Lowering of Working for Families abatement threshold and
increasing the abatement rate, taking money out of the pockets of
families
15. Imposing a $900 Family Court fee
16. Annual increase on excise duty to alcohol 1 July each year

That to keep up with inflation.

17. 10% increase in tobacco tax 1 January every year

Smoking is the only product which when used according to the manufactures instructions causes harm.

The public view is that we can do without it, should be discouraged.
Need money to pay for smoke induced illness. Let the smokers pay so that
money is not taken out of the pockets of families.

18. Two Year Brightline test Capital Gains tax

Another example of National being head (leading) of the situation.

19. Border airport levy for customs

User pays

20. Airport departure tax

This has been in place for years

21. Netflix tax

This was nothing more than GST, which is applied to all products.

22. Fire Service levy to finance Fire Service Restructure

It has to be paid from somewhere. Once again this is user pays. (A directed tax)

So now they are making another promise: They _will_ remove the top tax
rate - so those earning over $180,000 taxable income will only pay 33
% on income over that level instead of 39%.

An inmpartial person would provide the same data for the Labour led government
since 2017.

Or put another way, what is Labour promising? The past has gone, let us move on.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 9:06:58 AM UTC+12, Tony wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Remember the promises: No new Taxes; GST will not be increased?
John Key and Bill English are long gone, but here is the track record
of National when last in Government:

1. GST increase from 12.5% to 15%
2. Increased taxes on KiwiSaver
3. Compulsory student loan payment increase from 10% to 12%
4. Increased tertiary fees
5. The 2012 'Paperboy' tax
6. Civil Aviation Authority fees rise
7. Additional fuel tax increase of 9 cents with annual CPI increases >locked in for perpetuity
8. Road User Charges increased
9. New annual student loan fees introduced
10. Massive unnecessary ACC levy increases
11. Prescription fees increased by 66%
12. New online company filing fees imposed on businesses
13. Creeping expansion of the scope of Fringe Benefit Taxes - National >tried to tax car parks and plain-clothes police uniforms
14. Lowering of Working for Families abatement threshold and
increasing the abatement rate, taking money out of the pockets of
families
15. Imposing a $900 Family Court fee
16. Annual increase on excise duty to alcohol 1 July each year
17. 10% increase in tobacco tax 1 January every year
18. Two Year Brightline test Capital Gains tax
19. Border airport levy for customs
20. Airport departure tax
21. Netflix tax
22. Fire Service levy to finance Fire Service Restructure

So now they are making another promise: They _will_ remove the top tax >rate - so those earning over $180,000 taxable income will only pay 33
% on income over that level instead of 39%.

An inmpartial person would provide the same data for the Labour led government
since 2017.

Like the way Rich equates a measly 2.5% increase in GST as being worse than Labour slamming us wit 12.5% GST and all their current taxes and levies slipped in the back door.
Guess this really blows the fake news of Richie's denial of left whinge support. Typical of liars of Rich and the left!
All up just more gaslighting and mis/disinformation from Rich!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sat, 22 Jul 2023 22:31:29 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Remember the promises: No new Taxes; GST will not be increased?
John Key and Bill English are long gone, but here is the track record
of National when last in Government:

1. GST increase from 12.5% to 15%
2. Increased taxes on KiwiSaver
3. Compulsory student loan payment increase from 10% to 12%
4. Increased tertiary fees
5. The 2012 'Paperboy' tax
6. Civil Aviation Authority fees rise
7. Additional fuel tax increase of 9 cents with annual CPI increases
locked in for perpetuity
8. Road User Charges increased
9. New annual student loan fees introduced
10. Massive unnecessary ACC levy increases
11. Prescription fees increased by 66%
12. New online company filing fees imposed on businesses
13. Creeping expansion of the scope of Fringe Benefit Taxes - National
tried to tax car parks and plain-clothes police uniforms
14. Lowering of Working for Families abatement threshold and
increasing the abatement rate, taking money out of the pockets of
families
15. Imposing a $900 Family Court fee
16. Annual increase on excise duty to alcohol 1 July each year
17. 10% increase in tobacco tax 1 January every year
18. Two Year Brightline test Capital Gains tax
19. Border airport levy for customs
20. Airport departure tax
21. Netflix tax
22. Fire Service levy to finance Fire Service Restructure

If these increases were so bad perhaps you could outline which were
reversed by which Labour government since then? Which of these
increases resulted in a defeat for National at the following general
election? I await your response with anticipation.

So now they are making another promise: They _will_ remove the top tax
rate - so those earning over $180,000 taxable income will only pay 33
% on income over that level instead of 39%.

We can use the same logic to say that the current Labour government is
burdened with decisions (of all types) that were made by previous
Labour governments. Front of mind was the Health system reforms of
2002 reversed by the current government.

The reality today is that senior leadership of National today is not
the same as senior leadership in previous National governments. Rich
- do you need to be reminded that the current Parliamentary leader was
not part of any previous government.

So much for your political neutrality. It was short-lived (if it ever
existed) and your normal habit of anti-National rhetoric has resumed
without any increase in quality.


--
Crash McBash

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun, 23 Jul 2023 10:38:01 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:

On Sat, 22 Jul 2023 22:31:29 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Remember the promises: No new Taxes; GST will not be increased?
John Key and Bill English are long gone, but here is the track record
of National when last in Government:

1. GST increase from 12.5% to 15%
2. Increased taxes on KiwiSaver
3. Compulsory student loan payment increase from 10% to 12%
4. Increased tertiary fees
5. The 2012 'Paperboy' tax
6. Civil Aviation Authority fees rise
7. Additional fuel tax increase of 9 cents with annual CPI increases
locked in for perpetuity
8. Road User Charges increased
9. New annual student loan fees introduced
10. Massive unnecessary ACC levy increases
11. Prescription fees increased by 66%
12. New online company filing fees imposed on businesses
13. Creeping expansion of the scope of Fringe Benefit Taxes - National >>tried to tax car parks and plain-clothes police uniforms
14. Lowering of Working for Families abatement threshold and
increasing the abatement rate, taking money out of the pockets of
families
15. Imposing a $900 Family Court fee
16. Annual increase on excise duty to alcohol 1 July each year
17. 10% increase in tobacco tax 1 January every year
18. Two Year Brightline test Capital Gains tax
19. Border airport levy for customs
20. Airport departure tax
21. Netflix tax
22. Fire Service levy to finance Fire Service Restructure

If these increases were so bad perhaps you could outline which were
reversed by which Labour government since then? Which of these
increases resulted in a defeat for National at the following general >election? I await your response with anticipation.

So now they are making another promise: They _will_ remove the top tax
rate - so those earning over $180,000 taxable income will only pay 33
% on income over that level instead of 39%.

We can use the same logic to say that the current Labour government is >burdened with decisions (of all types) that were made by previous
Labour governments. Front of mind was the Health system reforms of
2002 reversed by the current government.

The reality today is that senior leadership of National today is not
the same as senior leadership in previous National governments. Rich
- do you need to be reminded that the current Parliamentary leader was
not part of any previous government.

So much for your political neutrality. It was short-lived (if it ever >existed) and your normal habit of anti-National rhetoric has resumed
without any increase in quality.

I have rightly claimed that I am politically neutral in exactly the
same way as Tony is politically neutral.

If there is a quality issue with the list I posted, perhaps you could
indicate where it was not accurate.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sat, 22 Jul 2023 21:06:55 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

Remember the promises: No new Taxes; GST will not be increased?
John Key and Bill English are long gone, but here is the track record
of National when last in Government:

1. GST increase from 12.5% to 15%
2. Increased taxes on KiwiSaver
3. Compulsory student loan payment increase from 10% to 12%
4. Increased tertiary fees
5. The 2012 'Paperboy' tax
6. Civil Aviation Authority fees rise
7. Additional fuel tax increase of 9 cents with annual CPI increases
locked in for perpetuity
8. Road User Charges increased
9. New annual student loan fees introduced
10. Massive unnecessary ACC levy increases
11. Prescription fees increased by 66%
12. New online company filing fees imposed on businesses
13. Creeping expansion of the scope of Fringe Benefit Taxes - National >>tried to tax car parks and plain-clothes police uniforms
14. Lowering of Working for Families abatement threshold and
increasing the abatement rate, taking money out of the pockets of
families
15. Imposing a $900 Family Court fee
16. Annual increase on excise duty to alcohol 1 July each year
17. 10% increase in tobacco tax 1 January every year
18. Two Year Brightline test Capital Gains tax
19. Border airport levy for customs
20. Airport departure tax
21. Netflix tax
22. Fire Service levy to finance Fire Service Restructure

So now they are making another promise: They _will_ remove the top tax
rate - so those earning over $180,000 taxable income will only pay 33
% on income over that level instead of 39%.

An inmpartial person would provide the same data for the Labour led government >since 2017.

Clearly you do not see yourself as being an impartial person, Tony.

Here are a couple of links that may be of interest: https://www.labour.org.nz/our-record https://twitter.com/rugbyintel/status/1682697713060843522

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 11:48:59 AM UTC+12, Rich80105 wrote:

On Sun, 23 Jul 2023 10:38:01 +1200, Crash <nog...@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:

On Sat, 22 Jul 2023 22:31:29 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Remember the promises: No new Taxes; GST will not be increased?
John Key and Bill English are long gone, but here is the track record
of National when last in Government:

1. GST increase from 12.5% to 15%
2. Increased taxes on KiwiSaver
3. Compulsory student loan payment increase from 10% to 12%
4. Increased tertiary fees
5. The 2012 'Paperboy' tax
6. Civil Aviation Authority fees rise
7. Additional fuel tax increase of 9 cents with annual CPI increases >>locked in for perpetuity
8. Road User Charges increased
9. New annual student loan fees introduced
10. Massive unnecessary ACC levy increases
11. Prescription fees increased by 66%
12. New online company filing fees imposed on businesses
13. Creeping expansion of the scope of Fringe Benefit Taxes - National >>tried to tax car parks and plain-clothes police uniforms
14. Lowering of Working for Families abatement threshold and
increasing the abatement rate, taking money out of the pockets of >>families
15. Imposing a $900 Family Court fee
16. Annual increase on excise duty to alcohol 1 July each year
17. 10% increase in tobacco tax 1 January every year
18. Two Year Brightline test Capital Gains tax
19. Border airport levy for customs
20. Airport departure tax
21. Netflix tax
22. Fire Service levy to finance Fire Service Restructure

If these increases were so bad perhaps you could outline which were >reversed by which Labour government since then? Which of these
increases resulted in a defeat for National at the following general >election? I await your response with anticipation.

So now they are making another promise: They _will_ remove the top tax >>rate - so those earning over $180,000 taxable income will only pay 33
% on income over that level instead of 39%.

We can use the same logic to say that the current Labour government is >burdened with decisions (of all types) that were made by previous
Labour governments. Front of mind was the Health system reforms of
2002 reversed by the current government.

The reality today is that senior leadership of National today is not
the same as senior leadership in previous National governments. Rich
- do you need to be reminded that the current Parliamentary leader was
not part of any previous government.

So much for your political neutrality. It was short-lived (if it ever >existed) and your normal habit of anti-National rhetoric has resumed >without any increase in quality.

I have rightly claimed that I am politically neutral in exactly the
same way as Tony is politically neutral.

Just another lie from a compulsive liar as well proven since you made the false claim that you're politically neutral Rich.

If there is a quality issue with the list I posted, perhaps you could indicate where it was not accurate.

It's six years old and doesn't include the Labour failures which I list here for you to ignore as usual!

KiwiBuild
Illegal mandates
Insistence we believe the lies from the podium of truth "the one source of truth according to the consummate liar Ardern!
Dividing the country racially
Constant lies from Labour ministers
Lack of skilled people in important jobs such as Health, police,corrections,teaching
Rewriting NZ history in the schools
Failing education in reading, writing and arithmetic
Disinformation project
Failed mental health system
Failing dual health system
More people in emergency accomodation
Introduction of apartheid practices to NZ
A rise in crime rates
Lies about the true number of police now on the streets

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 11:40:29 AM UTC+12, Rich80105 wrote:

On Sat, 22 Jul 2023 21:06:55 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Remember the promises: No new Taxes; GST will not be increased?
John Key and Bill English are long gone, but here is the track record
of National when last in Government:

1. GST increase from 12.5% to 15%
2. Increased taxes on KiwiSaver
3. Compulsory student loan payment increase from 10% to 12%
4. Increased tertiary fees
5. The 2012 'Paperboy' tax
6. Civil Aviation Authority fees rise
7. Additional fuel tax increase of 9 cents with annual CPI increases >>locked in for perpetuity
8. Road User Charges increased
9. New annual student loan fees introduced
10. Massive unnecessary ACC levy increases
11. Prescription fees increased by 66%
12. New online company filing fees imposed on businesses
13. Creeping expansion of the scope of Fringe Benefit Taxes - National >>tried to tax car parks and plain-clothes police uniforms
14. Lowering of Working for Families abatement threshold and
increasing the abatement rate, taking money out of the pockets of >>families
15. Imposing a $900 Family Court fee
16. Annual increase on excise duty to alcohol 1 July each year
17. 10% increase in tobacco tax 1 January every year
18. Two Year Brightline test Capital Gains tax
19. Border airport levy for customs
20. Airport departure tax
21. Netflix tax
22. Fire Service levy to finance Fire Service Restructure

So now they are making another promise: They _will_ remove the top tax >>rate - so those earning over $180,000 taxable income will only pay 33
% on income over that level instead of 39%.

An inmpartial person would provide the same data for the Labour led government
since 2017.

Clearly you do not see yourself as being an impartial person, Tony.

Here are a couple of links that may be of interest: https://www.labour.org.nz/our-record

Funny how Labour were boasting about how low the prison population disappeared early thursday.

https://twitter.com/rugbyintel/status/1682697713060843522

Very interesting. Funny how the National party beat the government to praising excellent work from the police.
Guess it show how stupid Labour is. Great NZ had record low unemployment. But only because so many workers from key industries have fled to Australia since 2017! Yet the government still hasn't lifted the mandate on medical personnel!
btw have you been looking at the school lunches being served up in Taranaki? Reality as usual doesn't match Labours trumpeting of dubious success!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun, 23 Jul 2023 11:45:25 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 23 Jul 2023 10:38:01 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:

On Sat, 22 Jul 2023 22:31:29 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:

Remember the promises: No new Taxes; GST will not be increased?
John Key and Bill English are long gone, but here is the track record
of National when last in Government:

1. GST increase from 12.5% to 15%
2. Increased taxes on KiwiSaver
3. Compulsory student loan payment increase from 10% to 12%
4. Increased tertiary fees
5. The 2012 'Paperboy' tax
6. Civil Aviation Authority fees rise
7. Additional fuel tax increase of 9 cents with annual CPI increases >>>locked in for perpetuity
8. Road User Charges increased
9. New annual student loan fees introduced
10. Massive unnecessary ACC levy increases
11. Prescription fees increased by 66%
12. New online company filing fees imposed on businesses
13. Creeping expansion of the scope of Fringe Benefit Taxes - National >>>tried to tax car parks and plain-clothes police uniforms
14. Lowering of Working for Families abatement threshold and
increasing the abatement rate, taking money out of the pockets of >>>families
15. Imposing a $900 Family Court fee
16. Annual increase on excise duty to alcohol 1 July each year
17. 10% increase in tobacco tax 1 January every year
18. Two Year Brightline test Capital Gains tax
19. Border airport levy for customs
20. Airport departure tax
21. Netflix tax
22. Fire Service levy to finance Fire Service Restructure

If these increases were so bad perhaps you could outline which were >>reversed by which Labour government since then? Which of these
increases resulted in a defeat for National at the following general >>election? I await your response with anticipation.

So now they are making another promise: They _will_ remove the top tax >>>rate - so those earning over $180,000 taxable income will only pay 33
% on income over that level instead of 39%.

We can use the same logic to say that the current Labour government is >>burdened with decisions (of all types) that were made by previous
Labour governments. Front of mind was the Health system reforms of
2002 reversed by the current government.

The reality today is that senior leadership of National today is not
the same as senior leadership in previous National governments. Rich
- do you need to be reminded that the current Parliamentary leader was
not part of any previous government.

So much for your political neutrality. It was short-lived (if it ever >>existed) and your normal habit of anti-National rhetoric has resumed >>without any increase in quality.

I have rightly claimed that I am politically neutral in exactly the
same way as Tony is politically neutral.

If there is a quality issue with the list I posted, perhaps you could >indicate where it was not accurate.

Where did I say that what you posted was not accurate?

You answered the last part of my post but made to comment on what I
said about current governments being burdened by their history.


--
Crash McBash

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Sat, 22 Jul 2023 21:06:55 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

Remember the promises: No new Taxes; GST will not be increased?
John Key and Bill English are long gone, but here is the track record
of National when last in Government:

1. GST increase from 12.5% to 15%
2. Increased taxes on KiwiSaver
3. Compulsory student loan payment increase from 10% to 12%
4. Increased tertiary fees
5. The 2012 'Paperboy' tax
6. Civil Aviation Authority fees rise
7. Additional fuel tax increase of 9 cents with annual CPI increases >>>locked in for perpetuity
8. Road User Charges increased
9. New annual student loan fees introduced
10. Massive unnecessary ACC levy increases
11. Prescription fees increased by 66%
12. New online company filing fees imposed on businesses
13. Creeping expansion of the scope of Fringe Benefit Taxes - National >>>tried to tax car parks and plain-clothes police uniforms
14. Lowering of Working for Families abatement threshold and
increasing the abatement rate, taking money out of the pockets of >>>families
15. Imposing a $900 Family Court fee
16. Annual increase on excise duty to alcohol 1 July each year
17. 10% increase in tobacco tax 1 January every year
18. Two Year Brightline test Capital Gains tax
19. Border airport levy for customs
20. Airport departure tax
21. Netflix tax
22. Fire Service levy to finance Fire Service Restructure

So now they are making another promise: They _will_ remove the top tax >>>rate - so those earning over $180,000 taxable income will only pay 33
% on income over that level instead of 39%.

An inmpartial person would provide the same data for the Labour led >>government
since 2017.

Clearly you do not see yourself as being an impartial person, Tony.

Off topic.

Here are a couple of links that may be of interest: >https://www.labour.org.nz/our-record

Propaganda.

https://twitter.com/rugbyintel/status/1682697713060843522

Off topic.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Sun, 23 Jul 2023 10:38:01 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:

On Sat, 22 Jul 2023 22:31:29 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:

Remember the promises: No new Taxes; GST will not be increased?
John Key and Bill English are long gone, but here is the track record
of National when last in Government:

1. GST increase from 12.5% to 15%
2. Increased taxes on KiwiSaver
3. Compulsory student loan payment increase from 10% to 12%
4. Increased tertiary fees
5. The 2012 'Paperboy' tax
6. Civil Aviation Authority fees rise
7. Additional fuel tax increase of 9 cents with annual CPI increases >>>locked in for perpetuity
8. Road User Charges increased
9. New annual student loan fees introduced
10. Massive unnecessary ACC levy increases
11. Prescription fees increased by 66%
12. New online company filing fees imposed on businesses
13. Creeping expansion of the scope of Fringe Benefit Taxes - National >>>tried to tax car parks and plain-clothes police uniforms
14. Lowering of Working for Families abatement threshold and
increasing the abatement rate, taking money out of the pockets of >>>families
15. Imposing a $900 Family Court fee
16. Annual increase on excise duty to alcohol 1 July each year
17. 10% increase in tobacco tax 1 January every year
18. Two Year Brightline test Capital Gains tax
19. Border airport levy for customs
20. Airport departure tax
21. Netflix tax
22. Fire Service levy to finance Fire Service Restructure

If these increases were so bad perhaps you could outline which were >>reversed by which Labour government since then? Which of these
increases resulted in a defeat for National at the following general >>election? I await your response with anticipation.

So now they are making another promise: They _will_ remove the top tax >>>rate - so those earning over $180,000 taxable income will only pay 33
% on income over that level instead of 39%.

We can use the same logic to say that the current Labour government is >>burdened with decisions (of all types) that were made by previous
Labour governments. Front of mind was the Health system reforms of
2002 reversed by the current government.

The reality today is that senior leadership of National today is not
the same as senior leadership in previous National governments. Rich
- do you need to be reminded that the current Parliamentary leader was
not part of any previous government.

So much for your political neutrality. It was short-lived (if it ever >>existed) and your normal habit of anti-National rhetoric has resumed >>without any increase in quality.

I have rightly claimed that I am politically neutral in exactly the
same way as Tony is politically neutral.

Horseshit. You are not politically neutral.
As an aside you are also not morally or socially neutral.
I am totally poltically neutral and have voted for candidares from several parties including Labour.

If there is a quality issue with the list I posted, perhaps you could >indicate where it was not accurate.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 22 Jul 2023 22:43:32 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:

On 2023-07-22, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

Remember the promises: No new Taxes; GST will not be increased?
John Key and Bill English are long gone, but here is the track record
of National when last in Government:

1. GST increase from 12.5% to 15%

It has been pointed out that everyone pays GST. it is hard to advoid.

Indeed. GST is regarded as regressive - it had a higher impact on
those earning lower incomes than those on the highest incomes - and
the increase was made following a specific pre-election promise made
by John Key that National would not increase GST.

2. Increased taxes on KiwiSaver
3. Compulsory student loan payment increase from 10% to 12%

Well, it has to be paid back and there seemed to be a move that the pay back >was not happening fast enough.

I'm sure banks feel the same way about mortgage repayments at times -
how would you feel if you had a 25 year term for a mortgage and the
bank told you that your monthly payments were going up as they had
decided it should be repaid by 20 years . . .

4. Increased tertiary fees
5. The 2012 'Paperboy' tax

This one is almost poorly thought out as the present governments proposals. What are you referring to here?

6. Civil Aviation Authority fees rise

Probably because they had not been raied for many years.

To be fair I don't know a lot about those fees. One that most of us
know about was the significant increase in the cost of a drivers
license renewal, and a reduction from 10 to 5 years so they could
collect more frequently. It was a blatant money grab; Labour was able
to reduce the charge and still cover actual costs, while extending the
term back to 10 years.

7. Additional fuel tax increase of 9 cents with annual CPI increases >>>locked in for perpetuity

Look at that, a head of the times.

8. Road User Charges increased

Once again, needed to create an improvement to our roads.

Except the money was not used for maintenance - almost all spending
was on new "Roads of National Party significance". Two of those
projects have been completed since Labour was elected. They are
regarded as not having been well established in their structure -
Transmission Gully being particularly poor in financial arrangements
but also all of them allowing poor quality work to be done. The drive
to deliver profit to the company or companies taking on the contract
over-rode the duty of care to New Zealanders. I have said previously
that the best road project under National was the Kaikoura coastal
road - there was no time to arrange fancy contracts to guarantee
finance profits and it was arranged like an MoW project -
professionals employed directly by government working with contracting companies to get it done.

9. New annual student loan fees introduced
10. Massive unnecessary ACC levy increases

Unecessary? Has the present Government lowered them to present levels? National had previously tried to privatise ACC - it is in many

respects similar to a general insurance company, but on a larger
scale, and in Australia some private companies are used. The
privatisation failed as the additional costs of contracts and
collection required increased costs over then current ACC charges.
National wanted to show private companies that there was room to cover
higher costs and give room for a profit, so they ignored professional
advice and increased levies. The Australian companies had however been
burned once and did not have a bar of it; so yes the levies were able
to be reduced back to those recommended by the actuaries. It was a
cynical ideological move to make government smaller at the expense of efficiency, so perhaps does not fit precisely with the promise not to
increase GST that was not honoured.

11. Prescription fees increased by 66%

A whole $2. Sure alot of many for sum, but probably in rate with inflation. And they have now largely been reduced to zero

12. New online company filing fees imposed on businesses

And to think that National is a business friendly party.

Our rating as being a good place to do business are not significantly
different whatever government we have, but National tend to favour
bigger companies and do not care as much about internal competition.

13. Creeping expansion of the scope of Fringe Benefit Taxes - National >>>tried to tax car parks and plain-clothes police uniforms
14. Lowering of Working for Families abatement threshold and
increasing the abatement rate, taking money out of the pockets of >>>families
15. Imposing a $900 Family Court fee
16. Annual increase on excise duty to alcohol 1 July each year

That to keep up with inflation.

I had thought they were percentage fees that did not need adjustment
for inflation - can you clarify?

17. 10% increase in tobacco tax 1 January every year

Smoking is the only product which when used according to the manufactures >instructions causes harm.

The public view is that we can do without it, should be discouraged.
Need money to pay for smoke induced illness. Let the smokers pay so that >money is not taken out of the pockets of families.

I suspect we reached the limit for such increases a year or so ago -
even in 2017 the higher price was leading to raids on dairies to steal cigarettes. Restrictions on sellers are now being worked on, but we
now have the scourge of vaping . . .

18. Two Year Brightline test Capital Gains tax

Another example of National being head (leading) of the situation.

No, they exacerbated a distortion that has led to property being
unduly favoured, at the expense of investment in shares, and leading
to a large proportion of our companies being overseas owned.

19. Border airport levy for customs

User pays

Again I do not know much about this area, but I do recall claims that
is was designed to more than cover actual costs.

20. Airport departure tax

This has been in place for years

That is fair; but I think they were increased significantly - ideally
they should have a formula increase so that there are not sudden
jumps; I don't know enough about this one.

21. Netflix tax

This was nothing more than GST, which is applied to all products.

Clearly it had not been - but fair enough; that was a good move. The
current government has extended that to other anomalies as well.

22. Fire Service levy to finance Fire Service Restructure

It has to be paid from somewhere. Once again this is user pays. (A directed >tax)

It is debatable whether the costs of restructuring should be levied
against the current generation of users - at some point government
departments are there to cover the costs of some decisions - including investigations that do not lead to change!

So now they are making another promise: They _will_ remove the top tax >>>rate - so those earning over $180,000 taxable income will only pay 33
% on income over that level instead of 39%.

An inmpartial person would provide the same data for the Labour led government
since 2017.

Or put another way, what is Labour promising? The past has gone, let us move >on.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Sun, 23 Jul 2023 01:02:03 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Sun, 23 Jul 2023 10:38:01 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>wrote:

On Sat, 22 Jul 2023 22:31:29 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:

Remember the promises: No new Taxes; GST will not be increased?
John Key and Bill English are long gone, but here is the track record >>>>of National when last in Government:

1. GST increase from 12.5% to 15%
2. Increased taxes on KiwiSaver
3. Compulsory student loan payment increase from 10% to 12%
4. Increased tertiary fees
5. The 2012 'Paperboy' tax
6. Civil Aviation Authority fees rise
7. Additional fuel tax increase of 9 cents with annual CPI increases >>>>locked in for perpetuity
8. Road User Charges increased
9. New annual student loan fees introduced
10. Massive unnecessary ACC levy increases
11. Prescription fees increased by 66%
12. New online company filing fees imposed on businesses
13. Creeping expansion of the scope of Fringe Benefit Taxes - National >>>>tried to tax car parks and plain-clothes police uniforms
14. Lowering of Working for Families abatement threshold and
increasing the abatement rate, taking money out of the pockets of >>>>families
15. Imposing a $900 Family Court fee
16. Annual increase on excise duty to alcohol 1 July each year
17. 10% increase in tobacco tax 1 January every year
18. Two Year Brightline test Capital Gains tax
19. Border airport levy for customs
20. Airport departure tax
21. Netflix tax
22. Fire Service levy to finance Fire Service Restructure

If these increases were so bad perhaps you could outline which were >>>reversed by which Labour government since then? Which of these
increases resulted in a defeat for National at the following general >>>election? I await your response with anticipation.

So now they are making another promise: They _will_ remove the top tax >>>>rate - so those earning over $180,000 taxable income will only pay 33
% on income over that level instead of 39%.

We can use the same logic to say that the current Labour government is >>>burdened with decisions (of all types) that were made by previous
Labour governments. Front of mind was the Health system reforms of
2002 reversed by the current government.

The reality today is that senior leadership of National today is not
the same as senior leadership in previous National governments. Rich
- do you need to be reminded that the current Parliamentary leader was >>>not part of any previous government.

So much for your political neutrality. It was short-lived (if it ever >>>existed) and your normal habit of anti-National rhetoric has resumed >>>without any increase in quality.

I have rightly claimed that I am politically neutral in exactly the
same way as Tony is politically neutral.

Horseshit. You are not politically neutral.

My claim was that I am politically neutral in exactly the
same way as you claim to be politically neutral, Tony. Your deliberate misrepresentation of my statement confirms that you have limited
understanding of plain English.

As an aside you are also not morally or socially neutral.

I have never claimed to be morally or socially neutral - whatever you
think that means. Unlike some who post to this group I do hold strong
moral beliefs that I act on, and I respect those with views other than
mine, even when they demonstrate a limited understanding of morality,
and bigotry towards some groups in our community.

I am totally poltically neutral and have voted for candidares from several >parties including Labour.

So you assert, but your voting history does not change your clear lack
of political neutrality in many of your posts to nz.general.

If there is a quality issue with the list I posted, perhaps you could >>indicate where it was not accurate.

Which I note that you wisely did not attempt . . .

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Sun, 23 Jul 2023 01:02:03 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Sun, 23 Jul 2023 10:38:01 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>wrote:

On Sat, 22 Jul 2023 22:31:29 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>wrote:

Remember the promises: No new Taxes; GST will not be increased?
John Key and Bill English are long gone, but here is the track record >>>>>of National when last in Government:

1. GST increase from 12.5% to 15%
2. Increased taxes on KiwiSaver
3. Compulsory student loan payment increase from 10% to 12%
4. Increased tertiary fees
5. The 2012 'Paperboy' tax
6. Civil Aviation Authority fees rise
7. Additional fuel tax increase of 9 cents with annual CPI increases >>>>>locked in for perpetuity
8. Road User Charges increased
9. New annual student loan fees introduced
10. Massive unnecessary ACC levy increases
11. Prescription fees increased by 66%
12. New online company filing fees imposed on businesses
13. Creeping expansion of the scope of Fringe Benefit Taxes - National >>>>>tried to tax car parks and plain-clothes police uniforms
14. Lowering of Working for Families abatement threshold and >>>>>increasing the abatement rate, taking money out of the pockets of >>>>>families
15. Imposing a $900 Family Court fee
16. Annual increase on excise duty to alcohol 1 July each year
17. 10% increase in tobacco tax 1 January every year
18. Two Year Brightline test Capital Gains tax
19. Border airport levy for customs
20. Airport departure tax
21. Netflix tax
22. Fire Service levy to finance Fire Service Restructure

If these increases were so bad perhaps you could outline which were >>>>reversed by which Labour government since then? Which of these >>>>increases resulted in a defeat for National at the following general >>>>election? I await your response with anticipation.

So now they are making another promise: They _will_ remove the top tax >>>>>rate - so those earning over $180,000 taxable income will only pay 33 >>>>>% on income over that level instead of 39%.

We can use the same logic to say that the current Labour government is >>>>burdened with decisions (of all types) that were made by previous >>>>Labour governments. Front of mind was the Health system reforms of >>>>2002 reversed by the current government.

The reality today is that senior leadership of National today is not >>>>the same as senior leadership in previous National governments. Rich
- do you need to be reminded that the current Parliamentary leader was >>>>not part of any previous government.

So much for your political neutrality. It was short-lived (if it ever >>>>existed) and your normal habit of anti-National rhetoric has resumed >>>>without any increase in quality.

I have rightly claimed that I am politically neutral in exactly the
same way as Tony is politically neutral.

Horseshit. You are not politically neutral.

My claim was that I am politically neutral in exactly the
same way as you claim to be politically neutral, Tony. Your deliberate >misrepresentation of my statement confirms that you have limited >understanding of plain English.

Gee you are such a child.. You have demonstrated how bad your English comprehension is on multiple occasions and I have tried to assist you - so now you try the same on me - a failure of course. In a competition concerning the English language you would be decimated by me.
And your claim of neutrality is an obvious lie. Mine is not!

As an aside you are also not morally or socially neutral.

I have never claimed to be morally or socially neutral - whatever you
think that means. Unlike some who post to this group I do hold strong
moral beliefs that I act on, and I respect those with views other than
mine, even when they demonstrate a limited understanding of morality,
and bigotry towards some groups in our community.

Another lie - you never do that, your idea of morality is to get away with a lie or a slur on somebody's character.
Your "strong moral beliefs" are a figment of your imagination.
You remind me of the sinners that go to church on Sunday to confess and then start sinning again on Monday - are you one of those?

I am totally poltically neutral and have voted for candidares from several >>parties including Labour.

So you assert, but your voting history does not change your clear lack
of political neutrality in many of your posts to nz.general.

Provide evidence of that or piss off. (You will of course do the latter as usual because you cannot do the former).

If there is a quality issue with the list I posted, perhaps you could >>>indicate where it was not accurate.

Which I note that you wisely did not attempt . . .

You did not ask that of me - another failure of yours to use English intelligently.

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