Thankfully we don't have this sort of fundraising here - although theWhat rubbish.
"NZ Taxpayer Union" is perhaps a little similar - it does not have to >disclose who donates money to them or what they spend it on - a sort
of ACT/Nat "PAC" . . . Is the "Free Speech Union" the same as well?
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote: >>https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/25/us/politics/trump-donations-legal-fees.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur
What rubbish.
Thankfully we don't have this sort of fundraising here - although the
"NZ Taxpayer Union" is perhaps a little similar - it does not have to >>disclose who donates money to them or what they spend it on - a sort
of ACT/Nat "PAC" . . . Is the "Free Speech Union" the same as well?
You state is not here and then you ask whether itt is - do make your mind up. >The tax payer union is a privately funded non-political organisation but your >lies anout that continue.
If you were honets you would simply disagree with them but no you have to >attack them - there could be an obvious reason for thst - think about it.
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 01:21:42 -0000 (UTC), TonyNo I don't you pathetic little child. I do not support right wing politics and >never have, that you say I do is a reflection of your integrity and >intelligence.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/25/us/politics/trump-donations-legal-fees.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur
You state is not here and then you ask whether itt is - do make your mind up.
Thankfully we don't have this sort of fundraising here - although the >>>>"NZ Taxpayer Union" is perhaps a little similar - it does not have to >>>>disclose who donates money to them or what they spend it on - a sort
of ACT/Nat "PAC" . . . Is the "Free Speech Union" the same as well? >>>What rubbish.
The tax payer union is a privately funded non-political organisation but your
lies anout that continue.
If you were honets you would simply disagree with them but no you have to >>>attack them - there could be an obvious reason for thst - think about it.
I was not aware that we did have fundraising where one entity sells
contact details to another for large amounts so that political
donations can be diverted to personal legal fees. We do have "The
Taxpayer Union" which acts as a way around requirements to disclose >>political donations - it funded the "Groundswell" protests, which
while fairly ineffective, avoided the obvious link to ACT or National
. . . You do however confirm your support for the "Me First"
politics of the Right . . . - you are just not particularly honets
about it . . .
The tax payers union is not political - you are lying again. They do not >receive "political" donations, you are lying again.
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 01:21:42 -0000 (UTC), TonyNo I don't you pathetic little child. I do not support right wing politics and never have, that you say I do is a reflection of your integrity and intelligence.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/25/us/politics/trump-donations-legal-fees.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur
What rubbish.
Thankfully we don't have this sort of fundraising here - although the
"NZ Taxpayer Union" is perhaps a little similar - it does not have to >>>disclose who donates money to them or what they spend it on - a sort
of ACT/Nat "PAC" . . . Is the "Free Speech Union" the same as well?
You state is not here and then you ask whether itt is - do make your mind up. >>The tax payer union is a privately funded non-political organisation but your >>lies anout that continue.
If you were honets you would simply disagree with them but no you have to >>attack them - there could be an obvious reason for thst - think about it.
I was not aware that we did have fundraising where one entity sells
contact details to another for large amounts so that political
donations can be diverted to personal legal fees. We do have "The
Taxpayer Union" which acts as a way around requirements to disclose
political donations - it funded the "Groundswell" protests, which
while fairly ineffective, avoided the obvious link to ACT or National
. . . You do however confirm your support for the "Me First"
politics of the Right . . . - you are just not particularly honets
about it . . .
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 02:34:21 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 01:21:42 -0000 (UTC), TonyNo I don't you pathetic little child. I do not support right wing politics and
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/25/us/politics/trump-donations-legal-fees.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=curI was not aware that we did have fundraising where one entity sells >>>contact details to another for large amounts so that political
You state is not here and then you ask whether itt is - do make your mind up.
Thankfully we don't have this sort of fundraising here - although the >>>>>"NZ Taxpayer Union" is perhaps a little similar - it does not have to >>>>>disclose who donates money to them or what they spend it on - a sort >>>>>of ACT/Nat "PAC" . . . Is the "Free Speech Union" the same as well? >>>>What rubbish.
The tax payer union is a privately funded non-political organisation but your
lies anout that continue.
If you were honets you would simply disagree with them but no you have to >>>>attack them - there could be an obvious reason for thst - think about it. >>>
donations can be diverted to personal legal fees. We do have "The >>>Taxpayer Union" which acts as a way around requirements to disclose >>>political donations - it funded the "Groundswell" protests, which
while fairly ineffective, avoided the obvious link to ACT or National
. . . You do however confirm your support for the "Me First"
politics of the Right . . . - you are just not particularly honets
about it . . .
never have, that you say I do is a reflection of your integrity and >>intelligence.
The tax payers union is not political - you are lying again. They do not >>receive "political" donations, you are lying again.
You are absolutely "Right", Tony, of course they do not receive
Political Donations - only registered Political Parties can do that.
The Tax Payers Union is not a political party. So we agree on that at
least. What they do of course is merely publicise issues - some
directly, others through their astro-turf organisation Groundswell
(although that wasn't very successful, they may have given up on that
now . . .) And some 'like-minded' people just happen to give them
money for their work - some may think that political . . . but most "right-thinking" people would keep those thoughts to themselves,
wouldn't they?
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 01:21:42 -0000 (UTC), TonyAs usual Rich you're not very aware of anything that doesn't fit your far left political dogma. When it comes to lack of honesty that's the preserve of you and your inglorious left whinging political imbecilic parties in the Labour/Green/Porangi
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote: >>https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/25/us/politics/trump-donations-legal-fees.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=curI was not aware that we did have fundraising where one entity sells
What rubbish.
Thankfully we don't have this sort of fundraising here - although the >>"NZ Taxpayer Union" is perhaps a little similar - it does not have to >>disclose who donates money to them or what they spend it on - a sort
of ACT/Nat "PAC" . . . Is the "Free Speech Union" the same as well?
You state is not here and then you ask whether itt is - do make your mind up.
The tax payer union is a privately funded non-political organisation but your
lies anout that continue.
If you were honets you would simply disagree with them but no you have to >attack them - there could be an obvious reason for thst - think about it.
contact details to another for large amounts so that political
donations can be diverted to personal legal fees. We do have "The
Taxpayer Union" which acts as a way around requirements to disclose political donations - it funded the "Groundswell" protests, which
while fairly ineffective, avoided the obvious link to ACT or National
. . . You do however confirm your support for the "Me First"
politics of the Right . . . - you are just not particularly honets
about it . . .
On 2023-06-26, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:Trouble with Rich and his supposed fairness is if you disagree with the left whingers like Rich you attomatically go on his naughty far right list. His problem is he's unaware that he's so far left (which is why he can NEVER be right) that anybody he
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 02:34:21 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 01:21:42 -0000 (UTC), TonyNo I don't you pathetic little child. I do not support right wing politics and
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/25/us/politics/trump-donations-legal-fees.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur
You state is not here and then you ask whether itt is - do make your mind up.
Thankfully we don't have this sort of fundraising here - although the >>>>>"NZ Taxpayer Union" is perhaps a little similar - it does not have to >>>>>disclose who donates money to them or what they spend it on - a sort >>>>>of ACT/Nat "PAC" . . . Is the "Free Speech Union" the same as well? >>>>What rubbish.
The tax payer union is a privately funded non-political organisation but your
lies anout that continue.
If you were honets you would simply disagree with them but no you have to
attack them - there could be an obvious reason for thst - think about it.
I was not aware that we did have fundraising where one entity sells >>>contact details to another for large amounts so that political >>>donations can be diverted to personal legal fees. We do have "The >>>Taxpayer Union" which acts as a way around requirements to disclose >>>political donations - it funded the "Groundswell" protests, which >>>while fairly ineffective, avoided the obvious link to ACT or National >>>. . . You do however confirm your support for the "Me First"
politics of the Right . . . - you are just not particularly honets >>>about it . . .
never have, that you say I do is a reflection of your integrity and >>intelligence.
The tax payers union is not political - you are lying again. They do not >>receive "political" donations, you are lying again.
You are absolutely "Right", Tony, of course they do not receive
Political Donations - only registered Political Parties can do that.
The Tax Payers Union is not a political party. So we agree on that at least. What they do of course is merely publicise issues - some
directly, others through their astro-turf organisation Groundswell (although that wasn't very successful, they may have given up on that
now . . .) And some 'like-minded' people just happen to give them
money for their work - some may think that political . . . but most "right-thinking" people would keep those thoughts to themselves,
wouldn't they?
You know Rich that you have put a label on the Tax Payers Union, and this controls your thoughts/postings.
The Tax Payers Union is about getting value for tax payers. The fact that it is in your Bad group, says a great deal.
Gordon <Gor...@leaf.net.nz> wrote:Rich is a strong supporter of the coalition of chaos and as a result is unaware that he needs the help of a good psychologist. Poor wee fellow is like so many who support them a victim of Labours failure to do anything practical about mental health.
On 2023-06-26, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 02:34:21 -0000 (UTC), TonyYou know Rich that you have put a label on the Tax Payers Union, and this >controls your thoughts/postings.
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 01:21:42 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>><lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:No I don't you pathetic little child. I do not support right wing politics
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/25/us/politics/trump-donations-legal-fees.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur
You state is not here and then you ask whether itt is - do make your mind
Thankfully we don't have this sort of fundraising here - although the >>>>>>"NZ Taxpayer Union" is perhaps a little similar - it does not have to >>>>>>disclose who donates money to them or what they spend it on - a sort >>>>>>of ACT/Nat "PAC" . . . Is the "Free Speech Union" the same as well? >>>>>What rubbish.
up.
The tax payer union is a privately funded non-political organisation but
your
lies anout that continue.
If you were honets you would simply disagree with them but no you have to
attack them - there could be an obvious reason for thst - think about it.
I was not aware that we did have fundraising where one entity sells >>>>contact details to another for large amounts so that political >>>>donations can be diverted to personal legal fees. We do have "The >>>>Taxpayer Union" which acts as a way around requirements to disclose >>>>political donations - it funded the "Groundswell" protests, which >>>>while fairly ineffective, avoided the obvious link to ACT or National >>>>. . . You do however confirm your support for the "Me First" >>>>politics of the Right . . . - you are just not particularly honets >>>>about it . . .
and
never have, that you say I do is a reflection of your integrity and >>>intelligence.
The tax payers union is not political - you are lying again. They do not >>>receive "political" donations, you are lying again.
You are absolutely "Right", Tony, of course they do not receive
Political Donations - only registered Political Parties can do that.
The Tax Payers Union is not a political party. So we agree on that at
least. What they do of course is merely publicise issues - some
directly, others through their astro-turf organisation Groundswell
(although that wasn't very successful, they may have given up on that
now . . .) And some 'like-minded' people just happen to give them
money for their work - some may think that political . . . but most
"right-thinking" people would keep those thoughts to themselves,
wouldn't they?
The Tax Payers Union is about getting value for tax payers. The fact that itThey have had the effrontery to correctly criticise this government, what Rich
is in your Bad group, says a great deal.
cannot see is that they have done the same in the past for all governments since they were created. Rich is fixated on any and all criticism of his precious party.
On 2023-06-26, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:They have had the effrontery to correctly criticise this government, what Rich cannot see is that they have done the same in the past for all governments since they were created. Rich is fixated on any and all criticism of his precious party.
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 02:34:21 -0000 (UTC), TonyYou know Rich that you have put a label on the Tax Payers Union, and this >controls your thoughts/postings.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 01:21:42 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:No I don't you pathetic little child. I do not support right wing politics >>>and
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/25/us/politics/trump-donations-legal-fees.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=curI was not aware that we did have fundraising where one entity sells >>>>contact details to another for large amounts so that political >>>>donations can be diverted to personal legal fees. We do have "The >>>>Taxpayer Union" which acts as a way around requirements to disclose >>>>political donations - it funded the "Groundswell" protests, which
You state is not here and then you ask whether itt is - do make your mind >>>>>up.
Thankfully we don't have this sort of fundraising here - although the >>>>>>"NZ Taxpayer Union" is perhaps a little similar - it does not have to >>>>>>disclose who donates money to them or what they spend it on - a sort >>>>>>of ACT/Nat "PAC" . . . Is the "Free Speech Union" the same as well? >>>>>What rubbish.
The tax payer union is a privately funded non-political organisation but >>>>>your
lies anout that continue.
If you were honets you would simply disagree with them but no you have to >>>>>attack them - there could be an obvious reason for thst - think about it. >>>>
while fairly ineffective, avoided the obvious link to ACT or National
. . . You do however confirm your support for the "Me First"
politics of the Right . . . - you are just not particularly honets >>>>about it . . .
never have, that you say I do is a reflection of your integrity and >>>intelligence.
The tax payers union is not political - you are lying again. They do not >>>receive "political" donations, you are lying again.
You are absolutely "Right", Tony, of course they do not receive
Political Donations - only registered Political Parties can do that.
The Tax Payers Union is not a political party. So we agree on that at
least. What they do of course is merely publicise issues - some
directly, others through their astro-turf organisation Groundswell
(although that wasn't very successful, they may have given up on that
now . . .) And some 'like-minded' people just happen to give them
money for their work - some may think that political . . . but most
"right-thinking" people would keep those thoughts to themselves,
wouldn't they?
The Tax Payers Union is about getting value for tax payers. The fact that it >is in your Bad group, says a great deal.
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 02:34:21 -0000 (UTC), TonyYes I am right, but not right wing.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 01:21:42 -0000 (UTC), TonyNo I don't you pathetic little child. I do not support right wing politics >>and
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/25/us/politics/trump-donations-legal-fees.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=curI was not aware that we did have fundraising where one entity sells >>>contact details to another for large amounts so that political
You state is not here and then you ask whether itt is - do make your mind >>>>up.
Thankfully we don't have this sort of fundraising here - although the >>>>>"NZ Taxpayer Union" is perhaps a little similar - it does not have to >>>>>disclose who donates money to them or what they spend it on - a sort >>>>>of ACT/Nat "PAC" . . . Is the "Free Speech Union" the same as well? >>>>What rubbish.
The tax payer union is a privately funded non-political organisation but >>>>your
lies anout that continue.
If you were honets you would simply disagree with them but no you have to >>>>attack them - there could be an obvious reason for thst - think about it. >>>
donations can be diverted to personal legal fees. We do have "The >>>Taxpayer Union" which acts as a way around requirements to disclose >>>political donations - it funded the "Groundswell" protests, which
while fairly ineffective, avoided the obvious link to ACT or National
. . . You do however confirm your support for the "Me First"
politics of the Right . . . - you are just not particularly honets
about it . . .
never have, that you say I do is a reflection of your integrity and >>intelligence.
The tax payers union is not political - you are lying again. They do not >>receive "political" donations, you are lying again.
You are absolutely "Right", Tony, of course they do not receive
Political Donations - only registered Political Parties can do that.
The Tax Payers Union is not a political party. So we agree on that at
least. What they do of course is merely publicise issues - some
directly, others through their astro-turf organisation Groundswell
(although that wasn't very successful, they may have given up on that
now . . .) And some 'like-minded' people just happen to give them
money for their work - some may think that political . . . but most >"right-thinking" people would keep those thoughts to themselves,
wouldn't they?
On 2023-06-26, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 02:34:21 -0000 (UTC), TonyYou know Rich that you have put a label on the Tax Payers Union, and this >controls your thoughts/postings.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 01:21:42 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:No I don't you pathetic little child. I do not support right wing politics and
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/25/us/politics/trump-donations-legal-fees.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=curI was not aware that we did have fundraising where one entity sells >>>>contact details to another for large amounts so that political >>>>donations can be diverted to personal legal fees. We do have "The >>>>Taxpayer Union" which acts as a way around requirements to disclose >>>>political donations - it funded the "Groundswell" protests, which
You state is not here and then you ask whether itt is - do make your mind up.
Thankfully we don't have this sort of fundraising here - although the >>>>>>"NZ Taxpayer Union" is perhaps a little similar - it does not have to >>>>>>disclose who donates money to them or what they spend it on - a sort >>>>>>of ACT/Nat "PAC" . . . Is the "Free Speech Union" the same as well? >>>>>What rubbish.
The tax payer union is a privately funded non-political organisation but your
lies anout that continue.
If you were honets you would simply disagree with them but no you have to >>>>>attack them - there could be an obvious reason for thst - think about it. >>>>
while fairly ineffective, avoided the obvious link to ACT or National
. . . You do however confirm your support for the "Me First"
politics of the Right . . . - you are just not particularly honets >>>>about it . . .
never have, that you say I do is a reflection of your integrity and >>>intelligence.
The tax payers union is not political - you are lying again. They do not >>>receive "political" donations, you are lying again.
You are absolutely "Right", Tony, of course they do not receive
Political Donations - only registered Political Parties can do that.
The Tax Payers Union is not a political party. So we agree on that at
least. What they do of course is merely publicise issues - some
directly, others through their astro-turf organisation Groundswell
(although that wasn't very successful, they may have given up on that
now . . .) And some 'like-minded' people just happen to give them
money for their work - some may think that political . . . but most
"right-thinking" people would keep those thoughts to themselves,
wouldn't they?
The Tax Payers Union is about getting value for tax payers. The fact that it >is in your Bad group, says a great deal.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/25/us/politics/trump-donations-legal-fees.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur
Thankfully we don't have this sort of fundraising here - although the
"NZ Taxpayer Union" is perhaps a little similar - it does not have to >disclose who donates money to them or what they spend it on - a sort
of ACT/Nat "PAC" . . . Is the "Free Speech Union" the same as well?
On 26 Jun 2023 03:51:54 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:What a crock - you are just spinning dirt against people who are trying to do good. Shame on you.
On 2023-06-26, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 02:34:21 -0000 (UTC), TonyYou know Rich that you have put a label on the Tax Payers Union, and this >>controls your thoughts/postings.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 01:21:42 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:No I don't you pathetic little child. I do not support right wing politics >>>>and
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/25/us/politics/trump-donations-legal-fees.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=curI was not aware that we did have fundraising where one entity sells >>>>>contact details to another for large amounts so that political >>>>>donations can be diverted to personal legal fees. We do have "The >>>>>Taxpayer Union" which acts as a way around requirements to disclose >>>>>political donations - it funded the "Groundswell" protests, which >>>>>while fairly ineffective, avoided the obvious link to ACT or National >>>>>. . . You do however confirm your support for the "Me First" >>>>>politics of the Right . . . - you are just not particularly honets >>>>>about it . . .
You state is not here and then you ask whether itt is - do make your mind >>>>>>up.
Thankfully we don't have this sort of fundraising here - although the >>>>>>>"NZ Taxpayer Union" is perhaps a little similar - it does not have to >>>>>>>disclose who donates money to them or what they spend it on - a sort >>>>>>>of ACT/Nat "PAC" . . . Is the "Free Speech Union" the same as well? >>>>>>What rubbish.
The tax payer union is a privately funded non-political organisation but >>>>>>your
lies anout that continue.
If you were honets you would simply disagree with them but no you have to >>>>>>attack them - there could be an obvious reason for thst - think about it. >>>>>
never have, that you say I do is a reflection of your integrity and >>>>intelligence.
The tax payers union is not political - you are lying again. They do not >>>>receive "political" donations, you are lying again.
You are absolutely "Right", Tony, of course they do not receive
Political Donations - only registered Political Parties can do that.
The Tax Payers Union is not a political party. So we agree on that at
least. What they do of course is merely publicise issues - some
directly, others through their astro-turf organisation Groundswell
(although that wasn't very successful, they may have given up on that
now . . .) And some 'like-minded' people just happen to give them
money for their work - some may think that political . . . but most
"right-thinking" people would keep those thoughts to themselves,
wouldn't they?
The Tax Payers Union is about getting value for tax payers. The fact that it >>is in your Bad group, says a great deal.
See: https://www.taxpayers.org.nz/our_team
Jordan Williams : "... His background is in law and accounting and in
2011 he was spokesperson for Vote for Change, a lobby group that
campaigned against the retention of the MMP electoral system. In 2019
Jordan was elected onto the Board of World Taxpayers Associations –
the global network of taxpayers groups working together for lower
taxes, limited and accountable government, and taxpayer rights all
over the world. "
David Farrar: "David is a well known political blogger and
commentator. David also owns and manages the specialist polling agency
Curia Market Research and has an active involvement in Internet
issues. He is an experienced political campaigner and former
parliamentary staffer."
Laurence Kubiak: "... Government spending needs to create value for
the New Zealand taxpayer, and robust, independent scrutiny is of vital >importance in any healthy democracy. The work of the Union will never
be more important than in the years ahead."
Casey Costello: "... Since 2016 she has been co-spokesperson of
Hobson’s Pledge advocating for equality before the law for all New >Zealanders. . . ."
Hon. Ruth Richardson : "Since 2016 she has been co-spokesperson of
Hobson’s Pledge advocating for equality before the law for all New >Zealanders. . . ."
Chris Milne: "Chris is a councillor at Hutt City Council, . . . .He
is a former ACT Party Parliamentary Chief of Staff.""
Hon. John Boscowan: ""John is a businessman and former ACT MP and
Minister of Consumer Affairs and Associate Minister of Commerce in the
John Key Government. . . .""
Jim Rose: ". . . "A lot of money would be saved by taxpayers if
bureaucrats always had to put forward "Lilley’s option" – the option
of doing nothing – whenever there is a problem or a crisis."
And 7 staff (including 2 Research Interns)
Looking at the War on Waste, there is nothing of real significance -
similar spending was criticised under the Key/English governments.
Cut corporate Welfare is a weak argument against ''picking winners"" -
with one of the examples being payment of some of the costs of
Kiwirail - a State Owned Enterprise that is critical to our transport >network. Another example is the film industry - the Key government
increased previous subsidies and they have largely been continued
under Ardern/Hipkins - and over time we have developed a large film
and movie processing industry that has more than justified the
expenditure.
Not mentioned are the Covid payments to enable businesses to continue
to pay staff - despite a purported philosophical objection, the NZ
Taxpayer Union applied for and received government funds . . .
Their objection to Three Waters is more on objecting to structural
changes that amend technical ownership and responsibilities of local >Councils. There have been many re-organisations of local government -
one of the largest was undertaken by National, with a large number
being merged. It is arguable that the merged Auckland Council is not
working well, but that is more on the governance impediments put in by >National. This section appears to not be concerned about money at all,
just on political views that are essentially Labour Bad, ACT/National
good.
Overall, it is a surprise how little they have to report given the
level of staff employed. we do know they get involved in other issues
however - I mentioned one above. Importantly
With Farrar being a key player in Dirty Tricks, and both Farrar and
Williams heavily embroiled in right wing politics for many years
(initially National, but more recently with ACT as well), this is an >organisation that is politically driven and motivated, and is hardly
a group of raving lefties - do you agree, Gordon?
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 13:10:02 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/25/us/politics/trump-donations-legal-fees.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur
Thankfully we don't have this sort of fundraising here - although the
"NZ Taxpayer Union" is perhaps a little similar - it does not have to >>disclose who donates money to them or what they spend it on - a sort
of ACT/Nat "PAC" . . . Is the "Free Speech Union" the same as well?
Do you have any credible evidence of these accusations?
Labour is of course a bit short of party funds since Trade Union
membership subs are well down given the eradication of compulsory
unionism. As I recall, all Union subs included a Labour Party
donation. The subs were compulsory if you wished to work, therefore
every unionised worker was forced to contribute to the Labour Party.
Did you really want to go down this way Rich?
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 20:47:07 +1200, Crash <nog...@dontbother.invalid>You need to start treating the posts in thestranded as the flagrant Labour propaganda they are Rich. They just make you look sillier by the day!
wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 13:10:02 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/25/us/politics/trump-donations-legal-fees.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur
Thankfully we don't have this sort of fundraising here - although the >>"NZ Taxpayer Union" is perhaps a little similar - it does not have to >>disclose who donates money to them or what they spend it on - a sort
of ACT/Nat "PAC" . . . Is the "Free Speech Union" the same as well?
Do you have any credible evidence of these accusations?
Labour is of course a bit short of party funds since Trade Union >membership subs are well down given the eradication of compulsory >unionism. As I recall, all Union subs included a Labour PartyI think it does still apply for some unions; but not all. Just as many businesses used to donate to National (and some to both parties), now
donation. The subs were compulsory if you wished to work, therefore
every unionised worker was forced to contribute to the Labour Party.
Did you really want to go down this way Rich?
some wealthy business people find a donation to the Taxpayers Union
more conveniently anonymous, with much the same effect - they don't
want a National-only government anyway.
On Tuesday, June 27, 2023 at 9:42:54?AM UTC+12, Rich80105 wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 20:47:07 +1200, Crash <nog...@dontbother.invalid>You need to start treating the posts in thestranded as the flagrant Labour propaganda they are Rich. They just make you look sillier by the day!
wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 13:10:02 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com>I think it does still apply for some unions; but not all. Just as many
wrote:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/25/us/politics/trump-donations-legal-fees.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur
Thankfully we don't have this sort of fundraising here - although the
"NZ Taxpayer Union" is perhaps a little similar - it does not have to
disclose who donates money to them or what they spend it on - a sort
of ACT/Nat "PAC" . . . Is the "Free Speech Union" the same as well?
Do you have any credible evidence of these accusations?
Labour is of course a bit short of party funds since Trade Union
membership subs are well down given the eradication of compulsory
unionism. As I recall, all Union subs included a Labour Party
donation. The subs were compulsory if you wished to work, therefore
every unionised worker was forced to contribute to the Labour Party.
Did you really want to go down this way Rich?
businesses used to donate to National (and some to both parties), now
some wealthy business people find a donation to the Taxpayers Union
more conveniently anonymous, with much the same effect - they don't
want a National-only government anyway.
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 26 Jun 2023 03:51:54 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:What a crock - you are just spinning dirt against people who are trying to do >good. Shame on you.
On 2023-06-26, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 02:34:21 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:You know Rich that you have put a label on the Tax Payers Union, and this >>>controls your thoughts/postings.
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 01:21:42 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:No I don't you pathetic little child. I do not support right wing politics >>>>>and
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/25/us/politics/trump-donations-legal-fees.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur
You state is not here and then you ask whether itt is - do make your mind
Thankfully we don't have this sort of fundraising here - although the >>>>>>>>"NZ Taxpayer Union" is perhaps a little similar - it does not have to >>>>>>>>disclose who donates money to them or what they spend it on - a sort >>>>>>>>of ACT/Nat "PAC" . . . Is the "Free Speech Union" the same as well? >>>>>>>What rubbish.
up.
The tax payer union is a privately funded non-political organisation but >>>>>>>your
lies anout that continue.
If you were honets you would simply disagree with them but no you have to
attack them - there could be an obvious reason for thst - think about it.
I was not aware that we did have fundraising where one entity sells >>>>>>contact details to another for large amounts so that political >>>>>>donations can be diverted to personal legal fees. We do have "The >>>>>>Taxpayer Union" which acts as a way around requirements to disclose >>>>>>political donations - it funded the "Groundswell" protests, which >>>>>>while fairly ineffective, avoided the obvious link to ACT or National >>>>>>. . . You do however confirm your support for the "Me First" >>>>>>politics of the Right . . . - you are just not particularly honets >>>>>>about it . . .
never have, that you say I do is a reflection of your integrity and >>>>>intelligence.
The tax payers union is not political - you are lying again. They do not >>>>>receive "political" donations, you are lying again.
You are absolutely "Right", Tony, of course they do not receive
Political Donations - only registered Political Parties can do that.
The Tax Payers Union is not a political party. So we agree on that at
least. What they do of course is merely publicise issues - some
directly, others through their astro-turf organisation Groundswell
(although that wasn't very successful, they may have given up on that
now . . .) And some 'like-minded' people just happen to give them
money for their work - some may think that political . . . but most
"right-thinking" people would keep those thoughts to themselves,
wouldn't they?
The Tax Payers Union is about getting value for tax payers. The fact that it >>>is in your Bad group, says a great deal.
See: https://www.taxpayers.org.nz/our_team
Jordan Williams : "... His background is in law and accounting and in
2011 he was spokesperson for Vote for Change, a lobby group that
campaigned against the retention of the MMP electoral system. In 2019 >>Jordan was elected onto the Board of World Taxpayers Associations –
the global network of taxpayers groups working together for lower
taxes, limited and accountable government, and taxpayer rights all
over the world. "
David Farrar: "David is a well known political blogger and
commentator. David also owns and manages the specialist polling agency >>Curia Market Research and has an active involvement in Internet
issues. He is an experienced political campaigner and former
parliamentary staffer."
Laurence Kubiak: "... Government spending needs to create value for
the New Zealand taxpayer, and robust, independent scrutiny is of vital >>importance in any healthy democracy. The work of the Union will never
be more important than in the years ahead."
Casey Costello: "... Since 2016 she has been co-spokesperson of
Hobson’s Pledge advocating for equality before the law for all New >>Zealanders. . . ."
Hon. Ruth Richardson : "Since 2016 she has been co-spokesperson of
Hobson’s Pledge advocating for equality before the law for all New >>Zealanders. . . ."
Chris Milne: "Chris is a councillor at Hutt City Council, . . . .He
is a former ACT Party Parliamentary Chief of Staff.""
Hon. John Boscowan: ""John is a businessman and former ACT MP and
Minister of Consumer Affairs and Associate Minister of Commerce in the
John Key Government. . . .""
Jim Rose: ". . . "A lot of money would be saved by taxpayers if
bureaucrats always had to put forward "Lilley’s option" – the option
of doing nothing – whenever there is a problem or a crisis."
And 7 staff (including 2 Research Interns)
Looking at the War on Waste, there is nothing of real significance - >>similar spending was criticised under the Key/English governments.
Cut corporate Welfare is a weak argument against ''picking winners"" -
with one of the examples being payment of some of the costs of
Kiwirail - a State Owned Enterprise that is critical to our transport >>network. Another example is the film industry - the Key government >>increased previous subsidies and they have largely been continued
under Ardern/Hipkins - and over time we have developed a large film
and movie processing industry that has more than justified the
expenditure.
Not mentioned are the Covid payments to enable businesses to continue
to pay staff - despite a purported philosophical objection, the NZ
Taxpayer Union applied for and received government funds . . .
Their objection to Three Waters is more on objecting to structural
changes that amend technical ownership and responsibilities of local >>Councils. There have been many re-organisations of local government -
one of the largest was undertaken by National, with a large number
being merged. It is arguable that the merged Auckland Council is not >>working well, but that is more on the governance impediments put in by >>National. This section appears to not be concerned about money at all,
just on political views that are essentially Labour Bad, ACT/National
good.
Overall, it is a surprise how little they have to report given the
level of staff employed. we do know they get involved in other issues >>however - I mentioned one above. Importantly
With Farrar being a key player in Dirty Tricks, and both Farrar and >>Williams heavily embroiled in right wing politics for many years
(initially National, but more recently with ACT as well), this is an >>organisation that is politically driven and motivated, and is hardly
a group of raving lefties - do you agree, Gordon?
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 20:08:42 -0000 (UTC), TonyNearly all of what you have written are lies.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 26 Jun 2023 03:51:54 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:What a crock - you are just spinning dirt against people who are trying to do >>good. Shame on you.
On 2023-06-26, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 02:34:21 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:You know Rich that you have put a label on the Tax Payers Union, and this >>>>controls your thoughts/postings.
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 01:21:42 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:No I don't you pathetic little child. I do not support right wing >>>>>>politics
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/25/us/politics/trump-donations-legal-fees.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur
You state is not here and then you ask whether itt is - do make your >>>>>>>>mind
Thankfully we don't have this sort of fundraising here - although the >>>>>>>>>"NZ Taxpayer Union" is perhaps a little similar - it does not have to >>>>>>>>>disclose who donates money to them or what they spend it on - a sort >>>>>>>>>of ACT/Nat "PAC" . . . Is the "Free Speech Union" the same as well? >>>>>>>>What rubbish.
up.
The tax payer union is a privately funded non-political organisation >>>>>>>>but
your
lies anout that continue.
If you were honets you would simply disagree with them but no you have >>>>>>>>to
attack them - there could be an obvious reason for thst - think about >>>>>>>>it.
I was not aware that we did have fundraising where one entity sells >>>>>>>contact details to another for large amounts so that political >>>>>>>donations can be diverted to personal legal fees. We do have "The >>>>>>>Taxpayer Union" which acts as a way around requirements to disclose >>>>>>>political donations - it funded the "Groundswell" protests, which >>>>>>>while fairly ineffective, avoided the obvious link to ACT or National >>>>>>>. . . You do however confirm your support for the "Me First" >>>>>>>politics of the Right . . . - you are just not particularly honets >>>>>>>about it . . .
and
never have, that you say I do is a reflection of your integrity and >>>>>>intelligence.
The tax payers union is not political - you are lying again. They do not >>>>>>receive "political" donations, you are lying again.
You are absolutely "Right", Tony, of course they do not receive
Political Donations - only registered Political Parties can do that. >>>>> The Tax Payers Union is not a political party. So we agree on that at >>>>> least. What they do of course is merely publicise issues - some
directly, others through their astro-turf organisation Groundswell
(although that wasn't very successful, they may have given up on that >>>>> now . . .) And some 'like-minded' people just happen to give them
money for their work - some may think that political . . . but most >>>>> "right-thinking" people would keep those thoughts to themselves,
wouldn't they?
The Tax Payers Union is about getting value for tax payers. The fact that it
is in your Bad group, says a great deal.
See: https://www.taxpayers.org.nz/our_team
Jordan Williams : "... His background is in law and accounting and in >>>2011 he was spokesperson for Vote for Change, a lobby group that >>>campaigned against the retention of the MMP electoral system. In 2019 >>>Jordan was elected onto the Board of World Taxpayers Associations –
the global network of taxpayers groups working together for lower
taxes, limited and accountable government, and taxpayer rights all
over the world. "
David Farrar: "David is a well known political blogger and
commentator. David also owns and manages the specialist polling agency >>>Curia Market Research and has an active involvement in Internet
issues. He is an experienced political campaigner and former >>>parliamentary staffer."
Laurence Kubiak: "... Government spending needs to create value for
the New Zealand taxpayer, and robust, independent scrutiny is of vital >>>importance in any healthy democracy. The work of the Union will never
be more important than in the years ahead."
Casey Costello: "... Since 2016 she has been co-spokesperson of
Hobson’s Pledge advocating for equality before the law for all New >>>Zealanders. . . ."
Hon. Ruth Richardson : "Since 2016 she has been co-spokesperson of >>>Hobson’s Pledge advocating for equality before the law for all New >>>Zealanders. . . ."
Chris Milne: "Chris is a councillor at Hutt City Council, . . . .He
is a former ACT Party Parliamentary Chief of Staff.""
Hon. John Boscowan: ""John is a businessman and former ACT MP and >>>Minister of Consumer Affairs and Associate Minister of Commerce in the >>>John Key Government. . . .""
Jim Rose: ". . . "A lot of money would be saved by taxpayers if >>>bureaucrats always had to put forward "Lilley’s option" – the option
of doing nothing – whenever there is a problem or a crisis."
And 7 staff (including 2 Research Interns)
Looking at the War on Waste, there is nothing of real significance - >>>similar spending was criticised under the Key/English governments.
Cut corporate Welfare is a weak argument against ''picking winners"" - >>>with one of the examples being payment of some of the costs of
Kiwirail - a State Owned Enterprise that is critical to our transport >>>network. Another example is the film industry - the Key government >>>increased previous subsidies and they have largely been continued
under Ardern/Hipkins - and over time we have developed a large film
and movie processing industry that has more than justified the >>>expenditure.
Not mentioned are the Covid payments to enable businesses to continue
to pay staff - despite a purported philosophical objection, the NZ >>>Taxpayer Union applied for and received government funds . . .
Their objection to Three Waters is more on objecting to structural >>>changes that amend technical ownership and responsibilities of local >>>Councils. There have been many re-organisations of local government -
one of the largest was undertaken by National, with a large number
being merged. It is arguable that the merged Auckland Council is not >>>working well, but that is more on the governance impediments put in by >>>National. This section appears to not be concerned about money at all, >>>just on political views that are essentially Labour Bad, ACT/National >>>good.
Overall, it is a surprise how little they have to report given the
level of staff employed. we do know they get involved in other issues >>>however - I mentioned one above. Importantly
With Farrar being a key player in Dirty Tricks, and both Farrar and >>>Williams heavily embroiled in right wing politics for many years >>>(initially National, but more recently with ACT as well), this is an >>>organisation that is politically driven and motivated, and is hardly
a group of raving lefties - do you agree, Gordon?
Spinning dirt? What a strange perception of recognition that this is a >political lobbying group that advocates for policies shared by ACT and
the Right of the National Party. From their website:
"Our Vision: A prosperous, low-tax New Zealand with efficient,
transparent and accountable government
Founded by David Farrar and Jordan Williams in 2013, we enjoy the
support of nearly 200,000 registered members and supporters, making us
the most popular campaign group championing fiscal conservatism and >transparency in New Zealand. "
"We’re here to represent the common interests of all taxpayers and to
provide them with a voice in the corridors of power."
"We believe that new taxes should only be introduced when there are
equal decreases in other taxes."
"We are a pressure group not just a traditional ‘think tank’ or
business association. Our grassroots advocacy model is based on
international taxpayer-group counterparts, particularly in the United
Kingdom and Canada."
"The Taxpayers' Union is a member of the World Taxpayers Associations
– a coalition of taxpayer advocacy groups working together for lower
taxes, limited and accountable government, and taxpayer rights in more
than 60 countries. One of our cofounders sits on the WTA's board."
"When we launched in 2013, the Union was little more than an idea that
there was a need for a fiscally conservative lobby group in New
Zealand."
So it appears that you regard pointing out that they advocate pushing
for the aims of the ACT party is ''spinning dirt" - that says more
about you than anyone else, Tony.
What they are is a lobby group that is not accountable to anyone
(other than their strong links to ACT and National), is not subject to >requirements to give the source of donations or restrictions on
spending during an election period (although they may have to be
careful in how blatant they can be . . .). Quite similar to the USA
Political Action Committees - see >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_action_committee
There some Representatives at State and Federal level are so dependent
on PAC support that it influences the way they are prepared to vote -
that is said to be one reason why the Republican Party is so adamant
about not wanting any control on guns . . .
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 15:29:33 -0700 (PDT), John BowesIt does however have a tendencies to be left leaning like so much of the NZ media you quote Rich! I'd put the Taxpayer Union, BFD and Kiwiblog as being a lot more reliable and truthful than any of the garbage you soak up from thestranded Rich :)
<bowes...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, June 27, 2023 at 9:42:54?AM UTC+12, Rich80105 wrote:The New York Times is not The Standard, John B - I only occasionally
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 20:47:07 +1200, Crash <nog...@dontbother.invalid>You need to start treating the posts in thestranded as the flagrant Labour propaganda they are Rich. They just make you look sillier by the day!
wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 13:10:02 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com>I think it does still apply for some unions; but not all. Just as many
wrote:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/25/us/politics/trump-donations-legal-fees.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur
Thankfully we don't have this sort of fundraising here - although the >> >>"NZ Taxpayer Union" is perhaps a little similar - it does not have to >> >>disclose who donates money to them or what they spend it on - a sort
of ACT/Nat "PAC" . . . Is the "Free Speech Union" the same as well?
Do you have any credible evidence of these accusations?
Labour is of course a bit short of party funds since Trade Union
membership subs are well down given the eradication of compulsory
unionism. As I recall, all Union subs included a Labour Party
donation. The subs were compulsory if you wished to work, therefore
every unionised worker was forced to contribute to the Labour Party.
Did you really want to go down this way Rich?
businesses used to donate to National (and some to both parties), now
some wealthy business people find a donation to the Taxpayers Union
more conveniently anonymous, with much the same effect - they don't
want a National-only government anyway.
refer to articles from The Standard - you look very silly however for
your high dependency on ''thebfd'' and Kiwiblog as well as
disinformation and misinformation sites.
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 20:47:07 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 13:10:02 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/25/us/politics/trump-donations-legal-fees.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur
Thankfully we don't have this sort of fundraising here - although the
"NZ Taxpayer Union" is perhaps a little similar - it does not have to >>>disclose who donates money to them or what they spend it on - a sort
of ACT/Nat "PAC" . . . Is the "Free Speech Union" the same as well?
Do you have any credible evidence of these accusations?
Labour is of course a bit short of party funds since Trade Union
membership subs are well down given the eradication of compulsory
unionism. As I recall, all Union subs included a Labour Party
donation. The subs were compulsory if you wished to work, therefore
every unionised worker was forced to contribute to the Labour Party.
Did you really want to go down this way Rich?
I think it does still apply for some unions; but not all.
Just as many
businesses used to donate to National (and some to both parties), now
some wealthy business people find a donation to the Taxpayers Union
more conveniently anonymous, with much the same effect - they don't
want a National-only government anyway.
On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 09:41:15 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 20:47:07 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 13:10:02 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/25/us/politics/trump-donations-legal-fees.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur
Thankfully we don't have this sort of fundraising here - although the >>>>"NZ Taxpayer Union" is perhaps a little similar - it does not have to >>>>disclose who donates money to them or what they spend it on - a sort
of ACT/Nat "PAC" . . . Is the "Free Speech Union" the same as well?
Do you have any credible evidence of these accusations?
Labour is of course a bit short of party funds since Trade Union >>>membership subs are well down given the eradication of compulsory >>>unionism. As I recall, all Union subs included a Labour Party
donation. The subs were compulsory if you wished to work, therefore >>>every unionised worker was forced to contribute to the Labour Party.
Did you really want to go down this way Rich?
I think it does still apply for some unions; but not all.
Were you not able to see that my real point was the compulsory nature
of Union membership and therefore Labour funding from said compulsory
subs? Thankfully this is long gone but should be remembered in any >discussion on political party funding.
Just as many
businesses used to donate to National (and some to both parties), now
some wealthy business people find a donation to the Taxpayers Union
more conveniently anonymous, with much the same effect - they don't
want a National-only government anyway.
You are given to make such assertions but you cannot cite them. Your
naked attempt to distract with an irrelevancy is noted. There is no >compulsion in anything you have claimed - both on the part of
businesses and their customers.
On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 15:25:49 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 09:41:15 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 20:47:07 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 13:10:02 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>wrote:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/25/us/politics/trump-donations-legal-fees.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur
Thankfully we don't have this sort of fundraising here - although the >>>>>"NZ Taxpayer Union" is perhaps a little similar - it does not have to >>>>>disclose who donates money to them or what they spend it on - a sort >>>>>of ACT/Nat "PAC" . . . Is the "Free Speech Union" the same as well?
Do you have any credible evidence of these accusations?
Labour is of course a bit short of party funds since Trade Union >>>>membership subs are well down given the eradication of compulsory >>>>unionism. As I recall, all Union subs included a Labour Party >>>>donation. The subs were compulsory if you wished to work, therefore >>>>every unionised worker was forced to contribute to the Labour Party. >>>>Did you really want to go down this way Rich?
I think it does still apply for some unions; but not all.
Were you not able to see that my real point was the compulsory nature
of Union membership and therefore Labour funding from said compulsory
subs? Thankfully this is long gone but should be remembered in any >>discussion on political party funding.
If it is long gone is no longer relevant. Organisations such as the
Business Round Table used to make donations - but it is gone now. This
is 2023 - deal with it!
Just as many
businesses used to donate to National (and some to both parties), now >>>some wealthy business people find a donation to the Taxpayers Union
more conveniently anonymous, with much the same effect - they don't
want a National-only government anyway.
You are given to make such assertions but you cannot cite them. Your
naked attempt to distract with an irrelevancy is noted. There is no >>compulsion in anything you have claimed - both on the part of
businesses and their customers.
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 20:08:42 -0000 (UTC), TonyNearly all of what you have written are lies.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 26 Jun 2023 03:51:54 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:What a crock - you are just spinning dirt against people who are trying to do
On 2023-06-26, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 02:34:21 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:You know Rich that you have put a label on the Tax Payers Union, and this >>>>>controls your thoughts/postings.
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 01:21:42 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:No I don't you pathetic little child. I do not support right wing >>>>>>>politics
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/25/us/politics/trump-donations-legal-fees.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur
You state is not here and then you ask whether itt is - do make your >>>>>>>>>mind
Thankfully we don't have this sort of fundraising here - although the >>>>>>>>>>"NZ Taxpayer Union" is perhaps a little similar - it does not have to >>>>>>>>>>disclose who donates money to them or what they spend it on - a sort >>>>>>>>>>of ACT/Nat "PAC" . . . Is the "Free Speech Union" the same as well? >>>>>>>>>What rubbish.
up.
The tax payer union is a privately funded non-political organisation >>>>>>>>>but
your
lies anout that continue.
If you were honets you would simply disagree with them but no you have >>>>>>>>>to
attack them - there could be an obvious reason for thst - think about >>>>>>>>>it.
I was not aware that we did have fundraising where one entity sells >>>>>>>>contact details to another for large amounts so that political >>>>>>>>donations can be diverted to personal legal fees. We do have "The >>>>>>>>Taxpayer Union" which acts as a way around requirements to disclose >>>>>>>>political donations - it funded the "Groundswell" protests, which >>>>>>>>while fairly ineffective, avoided the obvious link to ACT or National >>>>>>>>. . . You do however confirm your support for the "Me First" >>>>>>>>politics of the Right . . . - you are just not particularly honets >>>>>>>>about it . . .
and
never have, that you say I do is a reflection of your integrity and >>>>>>>intelligence.
The tax payers union is not political - you are lying again. They do not >>>>>>>receive "political" donations, you are lying again.
You are absolutely "Right", Tony, of course they do not receive
Political Donations - only registered Political Parties can do that. >>>>>> The Tax Payers Union is not a political party. So we agree on that at >>>>>> least. What they do of course is merely publicise issues - some
directly, others through their astro-turf organisation Groundswell >>>>>> (although that wasn't very successful, they may have given up on that >>>>>> now . . .) And some 'like-minded' people just happen to give them >>>>>> money for their work - some may think that political . . . but most >>>>>> "right-thinking" people would keep those thoughts to themselves,
wouldn't they?
The Tax Payers Union is about getting value for tax payers. The fact that it
is in your Bad group, says a great deal.
See: https://www.taxpayers.org.nz/our_team
Jordan Williams : "... His background is in law and accounting and in >>>>2011 he was spokesperson for Vote for Change, a lobby group that >>>>campaigned against the retention of the MMP electoral system. In 2019 >>>>Jordan was elected onto the Board of World Taxpayers Associations –
the global network of taxpayers groups working together for lower >>>>taxes, limited and accountable government, and taxpayer rights all
over the world. "
David Farrar: "David is a well known political blogger and
commentator. David also owns and manages the specialist polling agency >>>>Curia Market Research and has an active involvement in Internet
issues. He is an experienced political campaigner and former >>>>parliamentary staffer."
Laurence Kubiak: "... Government spending needs to create value for
the New Zealand taxpayer, and robust, independent scrutiny is of vital >>>>importance in any healthy democracy. The work of the Union will never >>>>be more important than in the years ahead."
Casey Costello: "... Since 2016 she has been co-spokesperson of >>>>Hobson’s Pledge advocating for equality before the law for all New >>>>Zealanders. . . ."
Hon. Ruth Richardson : "Since 2016 she has been co-spokesperson of >>>>Hobson’s Pledge advocating for equality before the law for all New >>>>Zealanders. . . ."
Chris Milne: "Chris is a councillor at Hutt City Council, . . . .He
is a former ACT Party Parliamentary Chief of Staff.""
Hon. John Boscowan: ""John is a businessman and former ACT MP and >>>>Minister of Consumer Affairs and Associate Minister of Commerce in the >>>>John Key Government. . . .""
Jim Rose: ". . . "A lot of money would be saved by taxpayers if >>>>bureaucrats always had to put forward "Lilley’s option" – the option
of doing nothing – whenever there is a problem or a crisis."
And 7 staff (including 2 Research Interns)
Looking at the War on Waste, there is nothing of real significance - >>>>similar spending was criticised under the Key/English governments.
Cut corporate Welfare is a weak argument against ''picking winners"" - >>>>with one of the examples being payment of some of the costs of
Kiwirail - a State Owned Enterprise that is critical to our transport >>>>network. Another example is the film industry - the Key government >>>>increased previous subsidies and they have largely been continued
under Ardern/Hipkins - and over time we have developed a large film
and movie processing industry that has more than justified the >>>>expenditure.
Not mentioned are the Covid payments to enable businesses to continue >>>>to pay staff - despite a purported philosophical objection, the NZ >>>>Taxpayer Union applied for and received government funds . . .
Their objection to Three Waters is more on objecting to structural >>>>changes that amend technical ownership and responsibilities of local >>>>Councils. There have been many re-organisations of local government - >>>>one of the largest was undertaken by National, with a large number >>>>being merged. It is arguable that the merged Auckland Council is not >>>>working well, but that is more on the governance impediments put in by >>>>National. This section appears to not be concerned about money at all, >>>>just on political views that are essentially Labour Bad, ACT/National >>>>good.
Overall, it is a surprise how little they have to report given the >>>>level of staff employed. we do know they get involved in other issues >>>>however - I mentioned one above. Importantly
With Farrar being a key player in Dirty Tricks, and both Farrar and >>>>Williams heavily embroiled in right wing politics for many years >>>>(initially National, but more recently with ACT as well), this is an >>>>organisation that is politically driven and motivated, and is hardly
a group of raving lefties - do you agree, Gordon?
good. Shame on you.
Spinning dirt? What a strange perception of recognition that this is a >>political lobbying group that advocates for policies shared by ACT and
the Right of the National Party. From their website:
"Our Vision: A prosperous, low-tax New Zealand with efficient,
transparent and accountable government
Founded by David Farrar and Jordan Williams in 2013, we enjoy the
support of nearly 200,000 registered members and supporters, making us
the most popular campaign group championing fiscal conservatism and >>transparency in New Zealand. "
"We’re here to represent the common interests of all taxpayers and to >>provide them with a voice in the corridors of power."
"We believe that new taxes should only be introduced when there are
equal decreases in other taxes."
"We are a pressure group not just a traditional ‘think tank’ or
business association. Our grassroots advocacy model is based on >>international taxpayer-group counterparts, particularly in the United >>Kingdom and Canada."
"The Taxpayers' Union is a member of the World Taxpayers Associations
– a coalition of taxpayer advocacy groups working together for lower
taxes, limited and accountable government, and taxpayer rights in more
than 60 countries. One of our cofounders sits on the WTA's board."
"When we launched in 2013, the Union was little more than an idea that >>there was a need for a fiscally conservative lobby group in New
Zealand."
So it appears that you regard pointing out that they advocate pushing
for the aims of the ACT party is ''spinning dirt" - that says more
about you than anyone else, Tony.
What they are is a lobby group that is not accountable to anyone
(other than their strong links to ACT and National), is not subject to >>requirements to give the source of donations or restrictions on
spending during an election period (although they may have to be
careful in how blatant they can be . . .). Quite similar to the USA >>Political Action Committees - see >>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_action_committee
There some Representatives at State and Federal level are so dependent
on PAC support that it influences the way they are prepared to vote -
that is said to be one reason why the Republican Party is so adamant
about not wanting any control on guns . . .
They are not a political lobby group. No question about that.Well there is a question, since that is what they claim to be . . .
On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 01:58:17 -0000 (UTC), TonyNo they do not - they claim to represent tax payers regardless of the government in power All else is silliness by you.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 20:08:42 -0000 (UTC), TonyNearly all of what you have written are lies.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 26 Jun 2023 03:51:54 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:What a crock - you are just spinning dirt against people who are trying to >>>>do
On 2023-06-26, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 02:34:21 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:You know Rich that you have put a label on the Tax Payers Union, and this >>>>>>controls your thoughts/postings.
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 01:21:42 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:No I don't you pathetic little child. I do not support right wing >>>>>>>>politics
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/25/us/politics/trump-donations-legal-fees.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur
What rubbish.
Thankfully we don't have this sort of fundraising here - although the
"NZ Taxpayer Union" is perhaps a little similar - it does not have to
disclose who donates money to them or what they spend it on - a sort >>>>>>>>>>>of ACT/Nat "PAC" . . . Is the "Free Speech Union" the same as well?
You state is not here and then you ask whether itt is - do make your >>>>>>>>>>mind
up.
The tax payer union is a privately funded non-political organisation >>>>>>>>>>but
your
lies anout that continue.
If you were honets you would simply disagree with them but no you >>>>>>>>>>have
to
attack them - there could be an obvious reason for thst - think about >>>>>>>>>>it.
I was not aware that we did have fundraising where one entity sells >>>>>>>>>contact details to another for large amounts so that political >>>>>>>>>donations can be diverted to personal legal fees. We do have "The >>>>>>>>>Taxpayer Union" which acts as a way around requirements to disclose >>>>>>>>>political donations - it funded the "Groundswell" protests, which >>>>>>>>>while fairly ineffective, avoided the obvious link to ACT or National >>>>>>>>>. . . You do however confirm your support for the "Me First" >>>>>>>>>politics of the Right . . . - you are just not particularly honets >>>>>>>>>about it . . .
and
never have, that you say I do is a reflection of your integrity and >>>>>>>>intelligence.
The tax payers union is not political - you are lying again. They do >>>>>>>>not
receive "political" donations, you are lying again.
You are absolutely "Right", Tony, of course they do not receive
Political Donations - only registered Political Parties can do that. >>>>>>> The Tax Payers Union is not a political party. So we agree on that at >>>>>>> least. What they do of course is merely publicise issues - some
directly, others through their astro-turf organisation Groundswell >>>>>>> (although that wasn't very successful, they may have given up on that >>>>>>> now . . .) And some 'like-minded' people just happen to give them >>>>>>> money for their work - some may think that political . . . but most >>>>>>> "right-thinking" people would keep those thoughts to themselves, >>>>>>> wouldn't they?
The Tax Payers Union is about getting value for tax payers. The fact that >>>>>>it
is in your Bad group, says a great deal.
See: https://www.taxpayers.org.nz/our_team
Jordan Williams : "... His background is in law and accounting and in >>>>>2011 he was spokesperson for Vote for Change, a lobby group that >>>>>campaigned against the retention of the MMP electoral system. In 2019 >>>>>Jordan was elected onto the Board of World Taxpayers Associations – >>>>>the global network of taxpayers groups working together for lower >>>>>taxes, limited and accountable government, and taxpayer rights all >>>>>over the world. "
David Farrar: "David is a well known political blogger and >>>>>commentator. David also owns and manages the specialist polling agency >>>>>Curia Market Research and has an active involvement in Internet >>>>>issues. He is an experienced political campaigner and former >>>>>parliamentary staffer."
Laurence Kubiak: "... Government spending needs to create value for >>>>>the New Zealand taxpayer, and robust, independent scrutiny is of vital >>>>>importance in any healthy democracy. The work of the Union will never >>>>>be more important than in the years ahead."
Casey Costello: "... Since 2016 she has been co-spokesperson of >>>>>Hobson’s Pledge advocating for equality before the law for all New >>>>>Zealanders. . . ."
Hon. Ruth Richardson : "Since 2016 she has been co-spokesperson of >>>>>Hobson’s Pledge advocating for equality before the law for all New >>>>>Zealanders. . . ."
Chris Milne: "Chris is a councillor at Hutt City Council, . . . .He >>>>>is a former ACT Party Parliamentary Chief of Staff.""
Hon. John Boscowan: ""John is a businessman and former ACT MP and >>>>>Minister of Consumer Affairs and Associate Minister of Commerce in the >>>>>John Key Government. . . .""
Jim Rose: ". . . "A lot of money would be saved by taxpayers if >>>>>bureaucrats always had to put forward "Lilley’s option" – the option >>>>>of doing nothing – whenever there is a problem or a crisis."
And 7 staff (including 2 Research Interns)
Looking at the War on Waste, there is nothing of real significance - >>>>>similar spending was criticised under the Key/English governments.
Cut corporate Welfare is a weak argument against ''picking winners"" - >>>>>with one of the examples being payment of some of the costs of >>>>>Kiwirail - a State Owned Enterprise that is critical to our transport >>>>>network. Another example is the film industry - the Key government >>>>>increased previous subsidies and they have largely been continued >>>>>under Ardern/Hipkins - and over time we have developed a large film >>>>>and movie processing industry that has more than justified the >>>>>expenditure.
Not mentioned are the Covid payments to enable businesses to continue >>>>>to pay staff - despite a purported philosophical objection, the NZ >>>>>Taxpayer Union applied for and received government funds . . .
Their objection to Three Waters is more on objecting to structural >>>>>changes that amend technical ownership and responsibilities of local >>>>>Councils. There have been many re-organisations of local government - >>>>>one of the largest was undertaken by National, with a large number >>>>>being merged. It is arguable that the merged Auckland Council is not >>>>>working well, but that is more on the governance impediments put in by >>>>>National. This section appears to not be concerned about money at all, >>>>>just on political views that are essentially Labour Bad, ACT/National >>>>>good.
Overall, it is a surprise how little they have to report given the >>>>>level of staff employed. we do know they get involved in other issues >>>>>however - I mentioned one above. Importantly
With Farrar being a key player in Dirty Tricks, and both Farrar and >>>>>Williams heavily embroiled in right wing politics for many years >>>>>(initially National, but more recently with ACT as well), this is an >>>>>organisation that is politically driven and motivated, and is hardly >>>>>a group of raving lefties - do you agree, Gordon?
good. Shame on you.
Spinning dirt? What a strange perception of recognition that this is a >>>political lobbying group that advocates for policies shared by ACT and >>>the Right of the National Party. From their website:
"Our Vision: A prosperous, low-tax New Zealand with efficient, >>>transparent and accountable government
Founded by David Farrar and Jordan Williams in 2013, we enjoy the
support of nearly 200,000 registered members and supporters, making us >>>the most popular campaign group championing fiscal conservatism and >>>transparency in New Zealand. "
"We’re here to represent the common interests of all taxpayers and to >>>provide them with a voice in the corridors of power."
"We believe that new taxes should only be introduced when there are
equal decreases in other taxes."
"We are a pressure group not just a traditional ‘think tank’ or
business association. Our grassroots advocacy model is based on >>>international taxpayer-group counterparts, particularly in the United >>>Kingdom and Canada."
"The Taxpayers' Union is a member of the World Taxpayers Associations
– a coalition of taxpayer advocacy groups working together for lower >>>taxes, limited and accountable government, and taxpayer rights in more >>>than 60 countries. One of our cofounders sits on the WTA's board."
"When we launched in 2013, the Union was little more than an idea that >>>there was a need for a fiscally conservative lobby group in New
Zealand."
So it appears that you regard pointing out that they advocate pushing
for the aims of the ACT party is ''spinning dirt" - that says more
about you than anyone else, Tony.
What they are is a lobby group that is not accountable to anyone
(other than their strong links to ACT and National), is not subject to >>>requirements to give the source of donations or restrictions on
spending during an election period (although they may have to be
careful in how blatant they can be . . .). Quite similar to the USA >>>Political Action Committees - see >>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_action_committee
There some Representatives at State and Federal level are so dependent
on PAC support that it influences the way they are prepared to vote - >>>that is said to be one reason why the Republican Party is so adamant >>>about not wanting any control on guns . . .
Almost all of what I wrote is quotes from the website of the ""NZ
Taxpayers Union"" - which parts did you see as lies, Tony?
They are not a political lobby group. No question about that.Well there is a question, since that is what they claim to be . . .
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 01:58:17 -0000 (UTC), TonyNo they do not - they claim to represent tax payers regardless of the >government in power All else is silliness by you.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 20:08:42 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:Nearly all of what you have written are lies.
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 26 Jun 2023 03:51:54 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:What a crock - you are just spinning dirt against people who are trying to >>>>>do
On 2023-06-26, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 02:34:21 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:You know Rich that you have put a label on the Tax Payers Union, and this
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 01:21:42 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>>>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:No I don't you pathetic little child. I do not support right wing >>>>>>>>>politics
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/25/us/politics/trump-donations-legal-fees.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur
What rubbish.
Thankfully we don't have this sort of fundraising here - although the
"NZ Taxpayer Union" is perhaps a little similar - it does not have to
disclose who donates money to them or what they spend it on - a sort
of ACT/Nat "PAC" . . . Is the "Free Speech Union" the same as well?
You state is not here and then you ask whether itt is - do make your >>>>>>>>>>>mind
up.
The tax payer union is a privately funded non-political organisation >>>>>>>>>>>but
your
lies anout that continue.
If you were honets you would simply disagree with them but no you >>>>>>>>>>>have
to
attack them - there could be an obvious reason for thst - think about
it.
I was not aware that we did have fundraising where one entity sells >>>>>>>>>>contact details to another for large amounts so that political >>>>>>>>>>donations can be diverted to personal legal fees. We do have "The >>>>>>>>>>Taxpayer Union" which acts as a way around requirements to disclose >>>>>>>>>>political donations - it funded the "Groundswell" protests, which >>>>>>>>>>while fairly ineffective, avoided the obvious link to ACT or National >>>>>>>>>>. . . You do however confirm your support for the "Me First" >>>>>>>>>>politics of the Right . . . - you are just not particularly honets >>>>>>>>>>about it . . .
and
never have, that you say I do is a reflection of your integrity and >>>>>>>>>intelligence.
The tax payers union is not political - you are lying again. They do >>>>>>>>>not
receive "political" donations, you are lying again.
You are absolutely "Right", Tony, of course they do not receive >>>>>>>> Political Donations - only registered Political Parties can do that. >>>>>>>> The Tax Payers Union is not a political party. So we agree on that at >>>>>>>> least. What they do of course is merely publicise issues - some >>>>>>>> directly, others through their astro-turf organisation Groundswell >>>>>>>> (although that wasn't very successful, they may have given up on that >>>>>>>> now . . .) And some 'like-minded' people just happen to give them >>>>>>>> money for their work - some may think that political . . . but most >>>>>>>> "right-thinking" people would keep those thoughts to themselves, >>>>>>>> wouldn't they?
controls your thoughts/postings.
The Tax Payers Union is about getting value for tax payers. The fact that
it
is in your Bad group, says a great deal.
See: https://www.taxpayers.org.nz/our_team
Jordan Williams : "... His background is in law and accounting and in >>>>>>2011 he was spokesperson for Vote for Change, a lobby group that >>>>>>campaigned against the retention of the MMP electoral system. In 2019 >>>>>>Jordan was elected onto the Board of World Taxpayers Associations – >>>>>>the global network of taxpayers groups working together for lower >>>>>>taxes, limited and accountable government, and taxpayer rights all >>>>>>over the world. "
David Farrar: "David is a well known political blogger and >>>>>>commentator. David also owns and manages the specialist polling agency >>>>>>Curia Market Research and has an active involvement in Internet >>>>>>issues. He is an experienced political campaigner and former >>>>>>parliamentary staffer."
Laurence Kubiak: "... Government spending needs to create value for >>>>>>the New Zealand taxpayer, and robust, independent scrutiny is of vital >>>>>>importance in any healthy democracy. The work of the Union will never >>>>>>be more important than in the years ahead."
Casey Costello: "... Since 2016 she has been co-spokesperson of >>>>>>Hobson’s Pledge advocating for equality before the law for all New >>>>>>Zealanders. . . ."
Hon. Ruth Richardson : "Since 2016 she has been co-spokesperson of >>>>>>Hobson’s Pledge advocating for equality before the law for all New >>>>>>Zealanders. . . ."
Chris Milne: "Chris is a councillor at Hutt City Council, . . . .He >>>>>>is a former ACT Party Parliamentary Chief of Staff.""
Hon. John Boscowan: ""John is a businessman and former ACT MP and >>>>>>Minister of Consumer Affairs and Associate Minister of Commerce in the >>>>>>John Key Government. . . .""
Jim Rose: ". . . "A lot of money would be saved by taxpayers if >>>>>>bureaucrats always had to put forward "Lilley’s option" – the option >>>>>>of doing nothing – whenever there is a problem or a crisis."
And 7 staff (including 2 Research Interns)
Looking at the War on Waste, there is nothing of real significance - >>>>>>similar spending was criticised under the Key/English governments.
Cut corporate Welfare is a weak argument against ''picking winners"" - >>>>>>with one of the examples being payment of some of the costs of >>>>>>Kiwirail - a State Owned Enterprise that is critical to our transport >>>>>>network. Another example is the film industry - the Key government >>>>>>increased previous subsidies and they have largely been continued >>>>>>under Ardern/Hipkins - and over time we have developed a large film >>>>>>and movie processing industry that has more than justified the >>>>>>expenditure.
Not mentioned are the Covid payments to enable businesses to continue >>>>>>to pay staff - despite a purported philosophical objection, the NZ >>>>>>Taxpayer Union applied for and received government funds . . .
Their objection to Three Waters is more on objecting to structural >>>>>>changes that amend technical ownership and responsibilities of local >>>>>>Councils. There have been many re-organisations of local government - >>>>>>one of the largest was undertaken by National, with a large number >>>>>>being merged. It is arguable that the merged Auckland Council is not >>>>>>working well, but that is more on the governance impediments put in by >>>>>>National. This section appears to not be concerned about money at all, >>>>>>just on political views that are essentially Labour Bad, ACT/National >>>>>>good.
Overall, it is a surprise how little they have to report given the >>>>>>level of staff employed. we do know they get involved in other issues >>>>>>however - I mentioned one above. Importantly
With Farrar being a key player in Dirty Tricks, and both Farrar and >>>>>>Williams heavily embroiled in right wing politics for many years >>>>>>(initially National, but more recently with ACT as well), this is an >>>>>>organisation that is politically driven and motivated, and is hardly >>>>>>a group of raving lefties - do you agree, Gordon?
good. Shame on you.
Spinning dirt? What a strange perception of recognition that this is a >>>>political lobbying group that advocates for policies shared by ACT and >>>>the Right of the National Party. From their website:
"Our Vision: A prosperous, low-tax New Zealand with efficient, >>>>transparent and accountable government
Founded by David Farrar and Jordan Williams in 2013, we enjoy the >>>>support of nearly 200,000 registered members and supporters, making us >>>>the most popular campaign group championing fiscal conservatism and >>>>transparency in New Zealand. "
"We’re here to represent the common interests of all taxpayers and to >>>>provide them with a voice in the corridors of power."
"We believe that new taxes should only be introduced when there are >>>>equal decreases in other taxes."
"We are a pressure group not just a traditional ‘think tank’ or >>>>business association. Our grassroots advocacy model is based on >>>>international taxpayer-group counterparts, particularly in the United >>>>Kingdom and Canada."
"The Taxpayers' Union is a member of the World Taxpayers Associations
– a coalition of taxpayer advocacy groups working together for lower >>>>taxes, limited and accountable government, and taxpayer rights in more >>>>than 60 countries. One of our cofounders sits on the WTA's board."
"When we launched in 2013, the Union was little more than an idea that >>>>there was a need for a fiscally conservative lobby group in New >>>>Zealand."
So it appears that you regard pointing out that they advocate pushing >>>>for the aims of the ACT party is ''spinning dirt" - that says more >>>>about you than anyone else, Tony.
What they are is a lobby group that is not accountable to anyone
(other than their strong links to ACT and National), is not subject to >>>>requirements to give the source of donations or restrictions on >>>>spending during an election period (although they may have to be >>>>careful in how blatant they can be . . .). Quite similar to the USA >>>>Political Action Committees - see >>>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_action_committee
There some Representatives at State and Federal level are so dependent >>>>on PAC support that it influences the way they are prepared to vote - >>>>that is said to be one reason why the Republican Party is so adamant >>>>about not wanting any control on guns . . .
Almost all of what I wrote is quotes from the website of the ""NZ
Taxpayers Union"" - which parts did you see as lies, Tony?
They are not a political lobby group. No question about that.Well there is a question, since that is what they claim to be . . .
On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 04:47:14 -0000 (UTC), TonyA real fact for you Rich. YOU are a lying bastard! https://www.taxpayers.org.nz/our_mission
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:They claim they are a fiscally conservative lobby group - they
On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 01:58:17 -0000 (UTC), TonyNo they do not - they claim to represent tax payers regardless of the >government in power All else is silliness by you.
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 20:08:42 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>><lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:Nearly all of what you have written are lies.
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 26 Jun 2023 03:51:54 GMT, Gordon <Gor...@leaf.net.nz> wrote:What a crock - you are just spinning dirt against people who are trying to
On 2023-06-26, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 02:34:21 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>>>><lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:You know Rich that you have put a label on the Tax Payers Union, and this
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 01:21:42 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>>>>>><lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:No I don't you pathetic little child. I do not support right wing >>>>>>>>>politics
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/25/us/politics/trump-donations-legal-fees.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur
What rubbish.
Thankfully we don't have this sort of fundraising here - although the
"NZ Taxpayer Union" is perhaps a little similar - it does not have to
disclose who donates money to them or what they spend it on - a sort
of ACT/Nat "PAC" . . . Is the "Free Speech Union" the same as well?
You state is not here and then you ask whether itt is - do make your
mind
up.
The tax payer union is a privately funded non-political organisation
but
your
lies anout that continue.
If you were honets you would simply disagree with them but no you >>>>>>>>>>>have
to
attack them - there could be an obvious reason for thst - think about
it.
I was not aware that we did have fundraising where one entity sells
contact details to another for large amounts so that political >>>>>>>>>>donations can be diverted to personal legal fees. We do have "The >>>>>>>>>>Taxpayer Union" which acts as a way around requirements to disclose
political donations - it funded the "Groundswell" protests, which >>>>>>>>>>while fairly ineffective, avoided the obvious link to ACT or National
. . . You do however confirm your support for the "Me First" >>>>>>>>>>politics of the Right . . . - you are just not particularly honets >>>>>>>>>>about it . . .
and
never have, that you say I do is a reflection of your integrity and >>>>>>>>>intelligence.
The tax payers union is not political - you are lying again. They do
not
receive "political" donations, you are lying again.
You are absolutely "Right", Tony, of course they do not receive >>>>>>>> Political Donations - only registered Political Parties can do that.
The Tax Payers Union is not a political party. So we agree on that at
least. What they do of course is merely publicise issues - some >>>>>>>> directly, others through their astro-turf organisation Groundswell >>>>>>>> (although that wasn't very successful, they may have given up on that
now . . .) And some 'like-minded' people just happen to give them >>>>>>>> money for their work - some may think that political . . . but most >>>>>>>> "right-thinking" people would keep those thoughts to themselves, >>>>>>>> wouldn't they?
controls your thoughts/postings.
The Tax Payers Union is about getting value for tax payers. The fact that
it
is in your Bad group, says a great deal.
See: https://www.taxpayers.org.nz/our_team
Jordan Williams : "... His background is in law and accounting and in >>>>>>2011 he was spokesperson for Vote for Change, a lobby group that >>>>>>campaigned against the retention of the MMP electoral system. In 2019 >>>>>>Jordan was elected onto the Board of World Taxpayers Associations – >>>>>>the global network of taxpayers groups working together for lower >>>>>>taxes, limited and accountable government, and taxpayer rights all >>>>>>over the world. "
David Farrar: "David is a well known political blogger and >>>>>>commentator. David also owns and manages the specialist polling agency >>>>>>Curia Market Research and has an active involvement in Internet >>>>>>issues. He is an experienced political campaigner and former >>>>>>parliamentary staffer."
Laurence Kubiak: "... Government spending needs to create value for >>>>>>the New Zealand taxpayer, and robust, independent scrutiny is of vital >>>>>>importance in any healthy democracy. The work of the Union will never >>>>>>be more important than in the years ahead."
Casey Costello: "... Since 2016 she has been co-spokesperson of >>>>>>Hobson’s Pledge advocating for equality before the law for all New >>>>>>Zealanders. . . ."
Hon. Ruth Richardson : "Since 2016 she has been co-spokesperson of >>>>>>Hobson’s Pledge advocating for equality before the law for all New >>>>>>Zealanders. . . ."
Chris Milne: "Chris is a councillor at Hutt City Council, . . . .He >>>>>>is a former ACT Party Parliamentary Chief of Staff.""
Hon. John Boscowan: ""John is a businessman and former ACT MP and >>>>>>Minister of Consumer Affairs and Associate Minister of Commerce in the >>>>>>John Key Government. . . .""
Jim Rose: ". . . "A lot of money would be saved by taxpayers if >>>>>>bureaucrats always had to put forward "Lilley’s option" – the option
of doing nothing – whenever there is a problem or a crisis."
And 7 staff (including 2 Research Interns)
Looking at the War on Waste, there is nothing of real significance - >>>>>>similar spending was criticised under the Key/English governments. >>>>>>
Cut corporate Welfare is a weak argument against ''picking winners"" - >>>>>>with one of the examples being payment of some of the costs of >>>>>>Kiwirail - a State Owned Enterprise that is critical to our transport >>>>>>network. Another example is the film industry - the Key government >>>>>>increased previous subsidies and they have largely been continued >>>>>>under Ardern/Hipkins - and over time we have developed a large film >>>>>>and movie processing industry that has more than justified the >>>>>>expenditure.
Not mentioned are the Covid payments to enable businesses to continue >>>>>>to pay staff - despite a purported philosophical objection, the NZ >>>>>>Taxpayer Union applied for and received government funds . . .
Their objection to Three Waters is more on objecting to structural >>>>>>changes that amend technical ownership and responsibilities of local >>>>>>Councils. There have been many re-organisations of local government - >>>>>>one of the largest was undertaken by National, with a large number >>>>>>being merged. It is arguable that the merged Auckland Council is not >>>>>>working well, but that is more on the governance impediments put in by >>>>>>National. This section appears to not be concerned about money at all, >>>>>>just on political views that are essentially Labour Bad, ACT/National >>>>>>good.
Overall, it is a surprise how little they have to report given the >>>>>>level of staff employed. we do know they get involved in other issues >>>>>>however - I mentioned one above. Importantly
With Farrar being a key player in Dirty Tricks, and both Farrar and >>>>>>Williams heavily embroiled in right wing politics for many years >>>>>>(initially National, but more recently with ACT as well), this is an >>>>>>organisation that is politically driven and motivated, and is hardly >>>>>>a group of raving lefties - do you agree, Gordon?
do
good. Shame on you.
Spinning dirt? What a strange perception of recognition that this is a >>>>political lobbying group that advocates for policies shared by ACT and >>>>the Right of the National Party. From their website:
"Our Vision: A prosperous, low-tax New Zealand with efficient, >>>>transparent and accountable government
Founded by David Farrar and Jordan Williams in 2013, we enjoy the >>>>support of nearly 200,000 registered members and supporters, making us >>>>the most popular campaign group championing fiscal conservatism and >>>>transparency in New Zealand. "
"We’re here to represent the common interests of all taxpayers and to >>>>provide them with a voice in the corridors of power."
"We believe that new taxes should only be introduced when there are >>>>equal decreases in other taxes."
"We are a pressure group not just a traditional ‘think tank’ or >>>>business association. Our grassroots advocacy model is based on >>>>international taxpayer-group counterparts, particularly in the United >>>>Kingdom and Canada."
"The Taxpayers' Union is a member of the World Taxpayers Associations >>>>– a coalition of taxpayer advocacy groups working together for lower >>>>taxes, limited and accountable government, and taxpayer rights in more >>>>than 60 countries. One of our cofounders sits on the WTA's board."
"When we launched in 2013, the Union was little more than an idea that >>>>there was a need for a fiscally conservative lobby group in New >>>>Zealand."
So it appears that you regard pointing out that they advocate pushing >>>>for the aims of the ACT party is ''spinning dirt" - that says more >>>>about you than anyone else, Tony.
What they are is a lobby group that is not accountable to anyone >>>>(other than their strong links to ACT and National), is not subject to >>>>requirements to give the source of donations or restrictions on >>>>spending during an election period (although they may have to be >>>>careful in how blatant they can be . . .). Quite similar to the USA >>>>Political Action Committees - see >>>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_action_committee
There some Representatives at State and Federal level are so dependent >>>>on PAC support that it influences the way they are prepared to vote - >>>>that is said to be one reason why the Republican Party is so adamant >>>>about not wanting any control on guns . . .
Almost all of what I wrote is quotes from the website of the ""NZ >>Taxpayers Union"" - which parts did you see as lies, Tony?
They are not a political lobby group. No question about that.Well there is a question, since that is what they claim to be . . .
unashamedly relate nearly everything they do to their view of
government. They are a political lobby group.
On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 04:47:14 -0000 (UTC), TonyNo they are not. You have failed to prove your opinion, do try harder.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 01:58:17 -0000 (UTC), TonyNo they do not - they claim to represent tax payers regardless of the >>government in power All else is silliness by you.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 20:08:42 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:Nearly all of what you have written are lies.
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 26 Jun 2023 03:51:54 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:What a crock - you are just spinning dirt against people who are trying >>>>>>to
On 2023-06-26, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 02:34:21 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:You know Rich that you have put a label on the Tax Payers Union, and >>>>>>>>this
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 01:21:42 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>>>>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:No I don't you pathetic little child. I do not support right wing >>>>>>>>>>politics
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/25/us/politics/trump-donations-legal-fees.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur
What rubbish.
Thankfully we don't have this sort of fundraising here - although >>>>>>>>>>>>>the
"NZ Taxpayer Union" is perhaps a little similar - it does not have >>>>>>>>>>>>>to
disclose who donates money to them or what they spend it on - a >>>>>>>>>>>>>sort
of ACT/Nat "PAC" . . . Is the "Free Speech Union" the same as >>>>>>>>>>>>>well?
You state is not here and then you ask whether itt is - do make >>>>>>>>>>>>your
mind
up.
The tax payer union is a privately funded non-political >>>>>>>>>>>>organisation
but
your
lies anout that continue.
If you were honets you would simply disagree with them but no you >>>>>>>>>>>>have
to
attack them - there could be an obvious reason for thst - think >>>>>>>>>>>>about
it.
I was not aware that we did have fundraising where one entity sells >>>>>>>>>>>contact details to another for large amounts so that political >>>>>>>>>>>donations can be diverted to personal legal fees. We do have "The >>>>>>>>>>>Taxpayer Union" which acts as a way around requirements to disclose >>>>>>>>>>>political donations - it funded the "Groundswell" protests, which >>>>>>>>>>>while fairly ineffective, avoided the obvious link to ACT or National
. . . You do however confirm your support for the "Me First" >>>>>>>>>>>politics of the Right . . . - you are just not particularly honets >>>>>>>>>>>about it . . .
and
never have, that you say I do is a reflection of your integrity and >>>>>>>>>>intelligence.
The tax payers union is not political - you are lying again. They do >>>>>>>>>>not
receive "political" donations, you are lying again.
You are absolutely "Right", Tony, of course they do not receive >>>>>>>>> Political Donations - only registered Political Parties can do that. >>>>>>>>> The Tax Payers Union is not a political party. So we agree on that at >>>>>>>>> least. What they do of course is merely publicise issues - some >>>>>>>>> directly, others through their astro-turf organisation Groundswell >>>>>>>>> (although that wasn't very successful, they may have given up on that >>>>>>>>> now . . .) And some 'like-minded' people just happen to give them >>>>>>>>> money for their work - some may think that political . . . but most >>>>>>>>> "right-thinking" people would keep those thoughts to themselves, >>>>>>>>> wouldn't they?
controls your thoughts/postings.
The Tax Payers Union is about getting value for tax payers. The fact >>>>>>>>that
it
is in your Bad group, says a great deal.
See: https://www.taxpayers.org.nz/our_team
Jordan Williams : "... His background is in law and accounting and in >>>>>>>2011 he was spokesperson for Vote for Change, a lobby group that >>>>>>>campaigned against the retention of the MMP electoral system. In 2019 >>>>>>>Jordan was elected onto the Board of World Taxpayers Associations – >>>>>>>the global network of taxpayers groups working together for lower >>>>>>>taxes, limited and accountable government, and taxpayer rights all >>>>>>>over the world. "
David Farrar: "David is a well known political blogger and >>>>>>>commentator. David also owns and manages the specialist polling agency >>>>>>>Curia Market Research and has an active involvement in Internet >>>>>>>issues. He is an experienced political campaigner and former >>>>>>>parliamentary staffer."
Laurence Kubiak: "... Government spending needs to create value for >>>>>>>the New Zealand taxpayer, and robust, independent scrutiny is of vital >>>>>>>importance in any healthy democracy. The work of the Union will never >>>>>>>be more important than in the years ahead."
Casey Costello: "... Since 2016 she has been co-spokesperson of >>>>>>>Hobson’s Pledge advocating for equality before the law for all New >>>>>>>Zealanders. . . ."
Hon. Ruth Richardson : "Since 2016 she has been co-spokesperson of >>>>>>>Hobson’s Pledge advocating for equality before the law for all New >>>>>>>Zealanders. . . ."
Chris Milne: "Chris is a councillor at Hutt City Council, . . . .He >>>>>>>is a former ACT Party Parliamentary Chief of Staff.""
Hon. John Boscowan: ""John is a businessman and former ACT MP and >>>>>>>Minister of Consumer Affairs and Associate Minister of Commerce in the >>>>>>>John Key Government. . . .""
Jim Rose: ". . . "A lot of money would be saved by taxpayers if >>>>>>>bureaucrats always had to put forward "Lilley’s option" – the option >>>>>>>of doing nothing – whenever there is a problem or a crisis."
And 7 staff (including 2 Research Interns)
Looking at the War on Waste, there is nothing of real significance - >>>>>>>similar spending was criticised under the Key/English governments. >>>>>>>
Cut corporate Welfare is a weak argument against ''picking winners"" - >>>>>>>with one of the examples being payment of some of the costs of >>>>>>>Kiwirail - a State Owned Enterprise that is critical to our transport >>>>>>>network. Another example is the film industry - the Key government >>>>>>>increased previous subsidies and they have largely been continued >>>>>>>under Ardern/Hipkins - and over time we have developed a large film >>>>>>>and movie processing industry that has more than justified the >>>>>>>expenditure.
Not mentioned are the Covid payments to enable businesses to continue >>>>>>>to pay staff - despite a purported philosophical objection, the NZ >>>>>>>Taxpayer Union applied for and received government funds . . .
Their objection to Three Waters is more on objecting to structural >>>>>>>changes that amend technical ownership and responsibilities of local >>>>>>>Councils. There have been many re-organisations of local government - >>>>>>>one of the largest was undertaken by National, with a large number >>>>>>>being merged. It is arguable that the merged Auckland Council is not >>>>>>>working well, but that is more on the governance impediments put in by >>>>>>>National. This section appears to not be concerned about money at all, >>>>>>>just on political views that are essentially Labour Bad, ACT/National >>>>>>>good.
Overall, it is a surprise how little they have to report given the >>>>>>>level of staff employed. we do know they get involved in other issues >>>>>>>however - I mentioned one above. Importantly
With Farrar being a key player in Dirty Tricks, and both Farrar and >>>>>>>Williams heavily embroiled in right wing politics for many years >>>>>>>(initially National, but more recently with ACT as well), this is an >>>>>>>organisation that is politically driven and motivated, and is hardly >>>>>>>a group of raving lefties - do you agree, Gordon?
do
good. Shame on you.
Spinning dirt? What a strange perception of recognition that this is a >>>>>political lobbying group that advocates for policies shared by ACT and >>>>>the Right of the National Party. From their website:
"Our Vision: A prosperous, low-tax New Zealand with efficient, >>>>>transparent and accountable government
Founded by David Farrar and Jordan Williams in 2013, we enjoy the >>>>>support of nearly 200,000 registered members and supporters, making us >>>>>the most popular campaign group championing fiscal conservatism and >>>>>transparency in New Zealand. "
"We’re here to represent the common interests of all taxpayers and to >>>>>provide them with a voice in the corridors of power."
"We believe that new taxes should only be introduced when there are >>>>>equal decreases in other taxes."
"We are a pressure group not just a traditional ‘think tank’ or >>>>>business association. Our grassroots advocacy model is based on >>>>>international taxpayer-group counterparts, particularly in the United >>>>>Kingdom and Canada."
"The Taxpayers' Union is a member of the World Taxpayers Associations >>>>>– a coalition of taxpayer advocacy groups working together for lower >>>>>taxes, limited and accountable government, and taxpayer rights in more >>>>>than 60 countries. One of our cofounders sits on the WTA's board."
"When we launched in 2013, the Union was little more than an idea that >>>>>there was a need for a fiscally conservative lobby group in New >>>>>Zealand."
So it appears that you regard pointing out that they advocate pushing >>>>>for the aims of the ACT party is ''spinning dirt" - that says more >>>>>about you than anyone else, Tony.
What they are is a lobby group that is not accountable to anyone >>>>>(other than their strong links to ACT and National), is not subject to >>>>>requirements to give the source of donations or restrictions on >>>>>spending during an election period (although they may have to be >>>>>careful in how blatant they can be . . .). Quite similar to the USA >>>>>Political Action Committees - see >>>>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_action_committee
There some Representatives at State and Federal level are so dependent >>>>>on PAC support that it influences the way they are prepared to vote - >>>>>that is said to be one reason why the Republican Party is so adamant >>>>>about not wanting any control on guns . . .
Almost all of what I wrote is quotes from the website of the ""NZ >>>Taxpayers Union"" - which parts did you see as lies, Tony?
They are not a political lobby group. No question about that.Well there is a question, since that is what they claim to be . . .
They claim they are a fiscally conservative lobby group - they
unashamedly relate nearly everything they do to their view of
government. They are a political lobby group.
On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 04:47:14 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 01:58:17 -0000 (UTC), TonyNo they do not - they claim to represent tax payers regardless of the >>government in power All else is silliness by you.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 20:08:42 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:Nearly all of what you have written are lies.
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 26 Jun 2023 03:51:54 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:What a crock - you are just spinning dirt against people who are trying to
On 2023-06-26, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 02:34:21 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:You know Rich that you have put a label on the Tax Payers Union, and this
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 01:21:42 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>>>>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:No I don't you pathetic little child. I do not support right wing >>>>>>>>>>politics
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/25/us/politics/trump-donations-legal-fees.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur
What rubbish.
Thankfully we don't have this sort of fundraising here - although the
"NZ Taxpayer Union" is perhaps a little similar - it does not have to
disclose who donates money to them or what they spend it on - a sort
of ACT/Nat "PAC" . . . Is the "Free Speech Union" the same as well?
You state is not here and then you ask whether itt is - do make your
mind
up.
The tax payer union is a privately funded non-political organisation
but
your
lies anout that continue.
If you were honets you would simply disagree with them but no you >>>>>>>>>>>>have
to
attack them - there could be an obvious reason for thst - think about
it.
I was not aware that we did have fundraising where one entity sells >>>>>>>>>>>contact details to another for large amounts so that political >>>>>>>>>>>donations can be diverted to personal legal fees. We do have "The >>>>>>>>>>>Taxpayer Union" which acts as a way around requirements to disclose >>>>>>>>>>>political donations - it funded the "Groundswell" protests, which >>>>>>>>>>>while fairly ineffective, avoided the obvious link to ACT or National
. . . You do however confirm your support for the "Me First" >>>>>>>>>>>politics of the Right . . . - you are just not particularly honets >>>>>>>>>>>about it . . .
and
never have, that you say I do is a reflection of your integrity and >>>>>>>>>>intelligence.
The tax payers union is not political - you are lying again. They do >>>>>>>>>>not
receive "political" donations, you are lying again.
You are absolutely "Right", Tony, of course they do not receive >>>>>>>>> Political Donations - only registered Political Parties can do that. >>>>>>>>> The Tax Payers Union is not a political party. So we agree on that at >>>>>>>>> least. What they do of course is merely publicise issues - some >>>>>>>>> directly, others through their astro-turf organisation Groundswell >>>>>>>>> (although that wasn't very successful, they may have given up on that >>>>>>>>> now . . .) And some 'like-minded' people just happen to give them >>>>>>>>> money for their work - some may think that political . . . but most >>>>>>>>> "right-thinking" people would keep those thoughts to themselves, >>>>>>>>> wouldn't they?
controls your thoughts/postings.
The Tax Payers Union is about getting value for tax payers. The fact that
it
is in your Bad group, says a great deal.
See: https://www.taxpayers.org.nz/our_team
Jordan Williams : "... His background is in law and accounting and in >>>>>>>2011 he was spokesperson for Vote for Change, a lobby group that >>>>>>>campaigned against the retention of the MMP electoral system. In 2019 >>>>>>>Jordan was elected onto the Board of World Taxpayers Associations – >>>>>>>the global network of taxpayers groups working together for lower >>>>>>>taxes, limited and accountable government, and taxpayer rights all >>>>>>>over the world. "
David Farrar: "David is a well known political blogger and >>>>>>>commentator. David also owns and manages the specialist polling agency >>>>>>>Curia Market Research and has an active involvement in Internet >>>>>>>issues. He is an experienced political campaigner and former >>>>>>>parliamentary staffer."
Laurence Kubiak: "... Government spending needs to create value for >>>>>>>the New Zealand taxpayer, and robust, independent scrutiny is of vital >>>>>>>importance in any healthy democracy. The work of the Union will never >>>>>>>be more important than in the years ahead."
Casey Costello: "... Since 2016 she has been co-spokesperson of >>>>>>>Hobson’s Pledge advocating for equality before the law for all New >>>>>>>Zealanders. . . ."
Hon. Ruth Richardson : "Since 2016 she has been co-spokesperson of >>>>>>>Hobson’s Pledge advocating for equality before the law for all New >>>>>>>Zealanders. . . ."
Chris Milne: "Chris is a councillor at Hutt City Council, . . . .He >>>>>>>is a former ACT Party Parliamentary Chief of Staff.""
Hon. John Boscowan: ""John is a businessman and former ACT MP and >>>>>>>Minister of Consumer Affairs and Associate Minister of Commerce in the >>>>>>>John Key Government. . . .""
Jim Rose: ". . . "A lot of money would be saved by taxpayers if >>>>>>>bureaucrats always had to put forward "Lilley’s option" – the option >>>>>>>of doing nothing – whenever there is a problem or a crisis."
And 7 staff (including 2 Research Interns)
Looking at the War on Waste, there is nothing of real significance - >>>>>>>similar spending was criticised under the Key/English governments. >>>>>>>
Cut corporate Welfare is a weak argument against ''picking winners"" - >>>>>>>with one of the examples being payment of some of the costs of >>>>>>>Kiwirail - a State Owned Enterprise that is critical to our transport >>>>>>>network. Another example is the film industry - the Key government >>>>>>>increased previous subsidies and they have largely been continued >>>>>>>under Ardern/Hipkins - and over time we have developed a large film >>>>>>>and movie processing industry that has more than justified the >>>>>>>expenditure.
Not mentioned are the Covid payments to enable businesses to continue >>>>>>>to pay staff - despite a purported philosophical objection, the NZ >>>>>>>Taxpayer Union applied for and received government funds . . .
Their objection to Three Waters is more on objecting to structural >>>>>>>changes that amend technical ownership and responsibilities of local >>>>>>>Councils. There have been many re-organisations of local government - >>>>>>>one of the largest was undertaken by National, with a large number >>>>>>>being merged. It is arguable that the merged Auckland Council is not >>>>>>>working well, but that is more on the governance impediments put in by >>>>>>>National. This section appears to not be concerned about money at all, >>>>>>>just on political views that are essentially Labour Bad, ACT/National >>>>>>>good.
Overall, it is a surprise how little they have to report given the >>>>>>>level of staff employed. we do know they get involved in other issues >>>>>>>however - I mentioned one above. Importantly
With Farrar being a key player in Dirty Tricks, and both Farrar and >>>>>>>Williams heavily embroiled in right wing politics for many years >>>>>>>(initially National, but more recently with ACT as well), this is an >>>>>>>organisation that is politically driven and motivated, and is hardly >>>>>>>a group of raving lefties - do you agree, Gordon?
do
good. Shame on you.
Spinning dirt? What a strange perception of recognition that this is a >>>>>political lobbying group that advocates for policies shared by ACT and >>>>>the Right of the National Party. From their website:
"Our Vision: A prosperous, low-tax New Zealand with efficient, >>>>>transparent and accountable government
Founded by David Farrar and Jordan Williams in 2013, we enjoy the >>>>>support of nearly 200,000 registered members and supporters, making us >>>>>the most popular campaign group championing fiscal conservatism and >>>>>transparency in New Zealand. "
"We’re here to represent the common interests of all taxpayers and to >>>>>provide them with a voice in the corridors of power."
"We believe that new taxes should only be introduced when there are >>>>>equal decreases in other taxes."
"We are a pressure group not just a traditional ‘think tank’ or >>>>>business association. Our grassroots advocacy model is based on >>>>>international taxpayer-group counterparts, particularly in the United >>>>>Kingdom and Canada."
"The Taxpayers' Union is a member of the World Taxpayers Associations >>>>>– a coalition of taxpayer advocacy groups working together for lower >>>>>taxes, limited and accountable government, and taxpayer rights in more >>>>>than 60 countries. One of our cofounders sits on the WTA's board."
"When we launched in 2013, the Union was little more than an idea that >>>>>there was a need for a fiscally conservative lobby group in New >>>>>Zealand."
So it appears that you regard pointing out that they advocate pushing >>>>>for the aims of the ACT party is ''spinning dirt" - that says more >>>>>about you than anyone else, Tony.
What they are is a lobby group that is not accountable to anyone >>>>>(other than their strong links to ACT and National), is not subject to >>>>>requirements to give the source of donations or restrictions on >>>>>spending during an election period (although they may have to be >>>>>careful in how blatant they can be . . .). Quite similar to the USA >>>>>Political Action Committees - see >>>>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_action_committee
There some Representatives at State and Federal level are so dependent >>>>>on PAC support that it influences the way they are prepared to vote - >>>>>that is said to be one reason why the Republican Party is so adamant >>>>>about not wanting any control on guns . . .
Almost all of what I wrote is quotes from the website of the ""NZ >>>Taxpayers Union"" - which parts did you see as lies, Tony?
They are not a political lobby group. No question about that.Well there is a question, since that is what they claim to be . . .
They claim they are a fiscally conservative lobby group - they
unashamedly relate nearly everything they do to their view of
government. They are a political lobby group.
On Tuesday, June 27, 2023 at 5:22:01?PM UTC+12, Rich80105 wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 04:47:14 -0000 (UTC), TonyA real fact for you Rich. YOU are a lying bastard! >https://www.taxpayers.org.nz/our_mission
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:They claim they are a fiscally conservative lobby group - they
On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 01:58:17 -0000 (UTC), TonyNo they do not - they claim to represent tax payers regardless of the
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 20:08:42 -0000 (UTC), TonyNearly all of what you have written are lies.
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 26 Jun 2023 03:51:54 GMT, Gordon <Gor...@leaf.net.nz> wrote:What a crock - you are just spinning dirt against people who are trying to
On 2023-06-26, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 02:34:21 -0000 (UTC), TonyYou know Rich that you have put a label on the Tax Payers Union, and this
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 01:21:42 -0000 (UTC), TonyNo I don't you pathetic little child. I do not support right wing >> >>>>>>>>>politics
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/25/us/politics/trump-donations-legal-fees.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=curWhat rubbish.
Thankfully we don't have this sort of fundraising here - although the
"NZ Taxpayer Union" is perhaps a little similar - it does not have to
disclose who donates money to them or what they spend it on - a sort
of ACT/Nat "PAC" . . . Is the "Free Speech Union" the same as well?
You state is not here and then you ask whether itt is - do make your
mind
up.
The tax payer union is a privately funded non-political organisation
but
your
lies anout that continue.
If you were honets you would simply disagree with them but no you >> >>>>>>>>>>>have
to
attack them - there could be an obvious reason for thst - think about
it.
I was not aware that we did have fundraising where one entity sells
contact details to another for large amounts so that political
donations can be diverted to personal legal fees. We do have "The >> >>>>>>>>>>Taxpayer Union" which acts as a way around requirements to disclose
political donations - it funded the "Groundswell" protests, which >> >>>>>>>>>>while fairly ineffective, avoided the obvious link to ACT or National
. . . You do however confirm your support for the "Me First"
politics of the Right . . . - you are just not particularly honets >> >>>>>>>>>>about it . . .
and
never have, that you say I do is a reflection of your integrity and >> >>>>>>>>>intelligence.
The tax payers union is not political - you are lying again. They do
not
receive "political" donations, you are lying again.
You are absolutely "Right", Tony, of course they do not receive
Political Donations - only registered Political Parties can do that.
The Tax Payers Union is not a political party. So we agree on that at
least. What they do of course is merely publicise issues - some
directly, others through their astro-turf organisation Groundswell >> >>>>>>>> (although that wasn't very successful, they may have given up on that
now . . .) And some 'like-minded' people just happen to give them >> >>>>>>>> money for their work - some may think that political . . . but most >> >>>>>>>> "right-thinking" people would keep those thoughts to themselves,
wouldn't they?
controls your thoughts/postings.
The Tax Payers Union is about getting value for tax payers. The fact that
it
is in your Bad group, says a great deal.
See: https://www.taxpayers.org.nz/our_team
Jordan Williams : "... His background is in law and accounting and in >> >>>>>>2011 he was spokesperson for Vote for Change, a lobby group that
campaigned against the retention of the MMP electoral system. In 2019 >> >>>>>>Jordan was elected onto the Board of World Taxpayers Associations –
the global network of taxpayers groups working together for lower
taxes, limited and accountable government, and taxpayer rights all
over the world. "
David Farrar: "David is a well known political blogger and
commentator. David also owns and manages the specialist polling agency >> >>>>>>Curia Market Research and has an active involvement in Internet
issues. He is an experienced political campaigner and former
parliamentary staffer."
Laurence Kubiak: "... Government spending needs to create value for
the New Zealand taxpayer, and robust, independent scrutiny is of vital >> >>>>>>importance in any healthy democracy. The work of the Union will never >> >>>>>>be more important than in the years ahead."
Casey Costello: "... Since 2016 she has been co-spokesperson of
Hobson’s Pledge advocating for equality before the law for all New
Zealanders. . . ."
Hon. Ruth Richardson : "Since 2016 she has been co-spokesperson of
Hobson’s Pledge advocating for equality before the law for all New
Zealanders. . . ."
Chris Milne: "Chris is a councillor at Hutt City Council, . . . .He
is a former ACT Party Parliamentary Chief of Staff.""
Hon. John Boscowan: ""John is a businessman and former ACT MP and
Minister of Consumer Affairs and Associate Minister of Commerce in the >> >>>>>>John Key Government. . . .""
Jim Rose: ". . . "A lot of money would be saved by taxpayers if
bureaucrats always had to put forward "Lilley’s option" – the option >> >>>>>>of doing nothing – whenever there is a problem or a crisis."
And 7 staff (including 2 Research Interns)
Looking at the War on Waste, there is nothing of real significance - >> >>>>>>similar spending was criticised under the Key/English governments.
Cut corporate Welfare is a weak argument against ''picking winners"" - >> >>>>>>with one of the examples being payment of some of the costs of
Kiwirail - a State Owned Enterprise that is critical to our transport >> >>>>>>network. Another example is the film industry - the Key government
increased previous subsidies and they have largely been continued
under Ardern/Hipkins - and over time we have developed a large film
and movie processing industry that has more than justified the
expenditure.
Not mentioned are the Covid payments to enable businesses to continue >> >>>>>>to pay staff - despite a purported philosophical objection, the NZ
Taxpayer Union applied for and received government funds . . .
Their objection to Three Waters is more on objecting to structural
changes that amend technical ownership and responsibilities of local >> >>>>>>Councils. There have been many re-organisations of local government - >> >>>>>>one of the largest was undertaken by National, with a large number
being merged. It is arguable that the merged Auckland Council is not >> >>>>>>working well, but that is more on the governance impediments put in by >> >>>>>>National. This section appears to not be concerned about money at all, >> >>>>>>just on political views that are essentially Labour Bad, ACT/National >> >>>>>>good.
Overall, it is a surprise how little they have to report given the
level of staff employed. we do know they get involved in other issues >> >>>>>>however - I mentioned one above. Importantly
With Farrar being a key player in Dirty Tricks, and both Farrar and
Williams heavily embroiled in right wing politics for many years
(initially National, but more recently with ACT as well), this is an >> >>>>>>organisation that is politically driven and motivated, and is hardly >> >>>>>>a group of raving lefties - do you agree, Gordon?
do
good. Shame on you.
Spinning dirt? What a strange perception of recognition that this is a >> >>>>political lobbying group that advocates for policies shared by ACT and >> >>>>the Right of the National Party. From their website:
"Our Vision: A prosperous, low-tax New Zealand with efficient,
transparent and accountable government
Founded by David Farrar and Jordan Williams in 2013, we enjoy the
support of nearly 200,000 registered members and supporters, making us >> >>>>the most popular campaign group championing fiscal conservatism and
transparency in New Zealand. "
"We’re here to represent the common interests of all taxpayers and to
provide them with a voice in the corridors of power."
"We believe that new taxes should only be introduced when there are
equal decreases in other taxes."
"We are a pressure group not just a traditional ‘think tank’ or
business association. Our grassroots advocacy model is based on
international taxpayer-group counterparts, particularly in the United
Kingdom and Canada."
"The Taxpayers' Union is a member of the World Taxpayers Associations
– a coalition of taxpayer advocacy groups working together for lower
taxes, limited and accountable government, and taxpayer rights in more >> >>>>than 60 countries. One of our cofounders sits on the WTA's board."
"When we launched in 2013, the Union was little more than an idea that >> >>>>there was a need for a fiscally conservative lobby group in New
Zealand."
So it appears that you regard pointing out that they advocate pushing
for the aims of the ACT party is ''spinning dirt" - that says more
about you than anyone else, Tony.
What they are is a lobby group that is not accountable to anyone
(other than their strong links to ACT and National), is not subject to >> >>>>requirements to give the source of donations or restrictions on
spending during an election period (although they may have to be
careful in how blatant they can be . . .). Quite similar to the USA
Political Action Committees - see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_action_committee
There some Representatives at State and Federal level are so dependent >> >>>>on PAC support that it influences the way they are prepared to vote -
that is said to be one reason why the Republican Party is so adamant
about not wanting any control on guns . . .
Almost all of what I wrote is quotes from the website of the ""NZ
Taxpayers Union"" - which parts did you see as lies, Tony?
They are not a political lobby group. No question about that.Well there is a question, since that is what they claim to be . . .
government in power All else is silliness by you.
unashamedly relate nearly everything they do to their view of
government. They are a political lobby group.
On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 17:20:25 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 04:47:14 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 01:58:17 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:No they do not - they claim to represent tax payers regardless of the >>>government in power All else is silliness by you.
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 20:08:42 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:Nearly all of what you have written are lies.
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 26 Jun 2023 03:51:54 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>>What a crock - you are just spinning dirt against people who are trying to
On 2023-06-26, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 02:34:21 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>>>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:You know Rich that you have put a label on the Tax Payers Union, and this
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 01:21:42 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>>>>>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:No I don't you pathetic little child. I do not support right wing >>>>>>>>>>>politics
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/25/us/politics/trump-donations-legal-fees.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur
What rubbish.
Thankfully we don't have this sort of fundraising here - although the
"NZ Taxpayer Union" is perhaps a little similar - it does not have to
disclose who donates money to them or what they spend it on - a sort
of ACT/Nat "PAC" . . . Is the "Free Speech Union" the same as well?
You state is not here and then you ask whether itt is - do make your
mind
up.
The tax payer union is a privately funded non-political organisation
but
your
lies anout that continue.
If you were honets you would simply disagree with them but no you >>>>>>>>>>>>>have
to
attack them - there could be an obvious reason for thst - think about
it.
I was not aware that we did have fundraising where one entity sells >>>>>>>>>>>>contact details to another for large amounts so that political >>>>>>>>>>>>donations can be diverted to personal legal fees. We do have "The >>>>>>>>>>>>Taxpayer Union" which acts as a way around requirements to disclose >>>>>>>>>>>>political donations - it funded the "Groundswell" protests, which >>>>>>>>>>>>while fairly ineffective, avoided the obvious link to ACT or National
. . . You do however confirm your support for the "Me First" >>>>>>>>>>>>politics of the Right . . . - you are just not particularly honets >>>>>>>>>>>>about it . . .
and
never have, that you say I do is a reflection of your integrity and >>>>>>>>>>>intelligence.
The tax payers union is not political - you are lying again. They do >>>>>>>>>>>not
receive "political" donations, you are lying again.
You are absolutely "Right", Tony, of course they do not receive >>>>>>>>>> Political Donations - only registered Political Parties can do that. >>>>>>>>>> The Tax Payers Union is not a political party. So we agree on that at
least. What they do of course is merely publicise issues - some >>>>>>>>>> directly, others through their astro-turf organisation Groundswell >>>>>>>>>> (although that wasn't very successful, they may have given up on that
now . . .) And some 'like-minded' people just happen to give them >>>>>>>>>> money for their work - some may think that political . . . but most
"right-thinking" people would keep those thoughts to themselves, >>>>>>>>>> wouldn't they?
controls your thoughts/postings.
The Tax Payers Union is about getting value for tax payers. The fact that
it
is in your Bad group, says a great deal.
See: https://www.taxpayers.org.nz/our_team
Jordan Williams : "... His background is in law and accounting and in >>>>>>>>2011 he was spokesperson for Vote for Change, a lobby group that >>>>>>>>campaigned against the retention of the MMP electoral system. In 2019 >>>>>>>>Jordan was elected onto the Board of World Taxpayers Associations – >>>>>>>>the global network of taxpayers groups working together for lower >>>>>>>>taxes, limited and accountable government, and taxpayer rights all >>>>>>>>over the world. "
David Farrar: "David is a well known political blogger and >>>>>>>>commentator. David also owns and manages the specialist polling agency >>>>>>>>Curia Market Research and has an active involvement in Internet >>>>>>>>issues. He is an experienced political campaigner and former >>>>>>>>parliamentary staffer."
Laurence Kubiak: "... Government spending needs to create value for >>>>>>>>the New Zealand taxpayer, and robust, independent scrutiny is of vital >>>>>>>>importance in any healthy democracy. The work of the Union will never >>>>>>>>be more important than in the years ahead."
Casey Costello: "... Since 2016 she has been co-spokesperson of >>>>>>>>Hobson’s Pledge advocating for equality before the law for all New >>>>>>>>Zealanders. . . ."
Hon. Ruth Richardson : "Since 2016 she has been co-spokesperson of >>>>>>>>Hobson’s Pledge advocating for equality before the law for all New >>>>>>>>Zealanders. . . ."
Chris Milne: "Chris is a councillor at Hutt City Council, . . . .He >>>>>>>>is a former ACT Party Parliamentary Chief of Staff.""
Hon. John Boscowan: ""John is a businessman and former ACT MP and >>>>>>>>Minister of Consumer Affairs and Associate Minister of Commerce in the >>>>>>>>John Key Government. . . .""
Jim Rose: ". . . "A lot of money would be saved by taxpayers if >>>>>>>>bureaucrats always had to put forward "Lilley’s option" – the option >>>>>>>>of doing nothing – whenever there is a problem or a crisis."
And 7 staff (including 2 Research Interns)
Looking at the War on Waste, there is nothing of real significance - >>>>>>>>similar spending was criticised under the Key/English governments. >>>>>>>>
Cut corporate Welfare is a weak argument against ''picking winners"" - >>>>>>>>with one of the examples being payment of some of the costs of >>>>>>>>Kiwirail - a State Owned Enterprise that is critical to our transport >>>>>>>>network. Another example is the film industry - the Key government >>>>>>>>increased previous subsidies and they have largely been continued >>>>>>>>under Ardern/Hipkins - and over time we have developed a large film >>>>>>>>and movie processing industry that has more than justified the >>>>>>>>expenditure.
Not mentioned are the Covid payments to enable businesses to continue >>>>>>>>to pay staff - despite a purported philosophical objection, the NZ >>>>>>>>Taxpayer Union applied for and received government funds . . .
Their objection to Three Waters is more on objecting to structural >>>>>>>>changes that amend technical ownership and responsibilities of local >>>>>>>>Councils. There have been many re-organisations of local government - >>>>>>>>one of the largest was undertaken by National, with a large number >>>>>>>>being merged. It is arguable that the merged Auckland Council is not >>>>>>>>working well, but that is more on the governance impediments put in by >>>>>>>>National. This section appears to not be concerned about money at all, >>>>>>>>just on political views that are essentially Labour Bad, ACT/National >>>>>>>>good.
Overall, it is a surprise how little they have to report given the >>>>>>>>level of staff employed. we do know they get involved in other issues >>>>>>>>however - I mentioned one above. Importantly
With Farrar being a key player in Dirty Tricks, and both Farrar and >>>>>>>>Williams heavily embroiled in right wing politics for many years >>>>>>>>(initially National, but more recently with ACT as well), this is an >>>>>>>>organisation that is politically driven and motivated, and is hardly >>>>>>>>a group of raving lefties - do you agree, Gordon?
do
good. Shame on you.
Spinning dirt? What a strange perception of recognition that this is a >>>>>>political lobbying group that advocates for policies shared by ACT and >>>>>>the Right of the National Party. From their website:
"Our Vision: A prosperous, low-tax New Zealand with efficient, >>>>>>transparent and accountable government
Founded by David Farrar and Jordan Williams in 2013, we enjoy the >>>>>>support of nearly 200,000 registered members and supporters, making us >>>>>>the most popular campaign group championing fiscal conservatism and >>>>>>transparency in New Zealand. "
"We’re here to represent the common interests of all taxpayers and to >>>>>>provide them with a voice in the corridors of power."
"We believe that new taxes should only be introduced when there are >>>>>>equal decreases in other taxes."
"We are a pressure group not just a traditional ‘think tank’ or >>>>>>business association. Our grassroots advocacy model is based on >>>>>>international taxpayer-group counterparts, particularly in the United >>>>>>Kingdom and Canada."
"The Taxpayers' Union is a member of the World Taxpayers Associations >>>>>>– a coalition of taxpayer advocacy groups working together for lower >>>>>>taxes, limited and accountable government, and taxpayer rights in more >>>>>>than 60 countries. One of our cofounders sits on the WTA's board."
"When we launched in 2013, the Union was little more than an idea that >>>>>>there was a need for a fiscally conservative lobby group in New >>>>>>Zealand."
So it appears that you regard pointing out that they advocate pushing >>>>>>for the aims of the ACT party is ''spinning dirt" - that says more >>>>>>about you than anyone else, Tony.
What they are is a lobby group that is not accountable to anyone >>>>>>(other than their strong links to ACT and National), is not subject to >>>>>>requirements to give the source of donations or restrictions on >>>>>>spending during an election period (although they may have to be >>>>>>careful in how blatant they can be . . .). Quite similar to the USA >>>>>>Political Action Committees - see >>>>>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_action_committee
There some Representatives at State and Federal level are so dependent >>>>>>on PAC support that it influences the way they are prepared to vote - >>>>>>that is said to be one reason why the Republican Party is so adamant >>>>>>about not wanting any control on guns . . .
Almost all of what I wrote is quotes from the website of the ""NZ >>>>Taxpayers Union"" - which parts did you see as lies, Tony?
They are not a political lobby group. No question about that.Well there is a question, since that is what they claim to be . . .
They claim they are a fiscally conservative lobby group - they
unashamedly relate nearly everything they do to their view of
government. They are a political lobby group.
Incorrect. From the Taxpayers Union website:
"Our Mission: Lower Taxes, Less Waste, More Accountability
Our Vision: A prosperous, low-tax New Zealand with efficient,
transparent and accountable government"
They most certainly are a lobby group but do not claim to represent
any particular political party. They claim to represent Taxpayers
interests, and they do so regardless of which political parties run
the government.
On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 20:18:38 +1200, Crash <nog...@dontbother.invalid>I'd love to see your explanation for how you got the lie they're a lobby group out of that Rich! But guess as usual you have to twist the truth to fit your twisted and feral political opinion!
wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 17:20:25 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 04:47:14 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 01:58:17 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>><lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 20:08:42 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>><lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:Nearly all of what you have written are lies.
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 26 Jun 2023 03:51:54 GMT, Gordon <Gor...@leaf.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>>What a crock - you are just spinning dirt against people who are trying to
On 2023-06-26, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 02:34:21 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>>>>>><lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:You know Rich that you have put a label on the Tax Payers Union, and this
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 01:21:42 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>>>>>>>><lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:No I don't you pathetic little child. I do not support right wing >>>>>>>>>>>politics
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/25/us/politics/trump-donations-legal-fees.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur
What rubbish.
Thankfully we don't have this sort of fundraising here - although the
"NZ Taxpayer Union" is perhaps a little similar - it does not have to
disclose who donates money to them or what they spend it on - a sort
of ACT/Nat "PAC" . . . Is the "Free Speech Union" the same as well?
You state is not here and then you ask whether itt is - do make your
mind
up.
The tax payer union is a privately funded non-political organisation
but
your
lies anout that continue.
If you were honets you would simply disagree with them but no you
have
to
attack them - there could be an obvious reason for thst - think about
it.
I was not aware that we did have fundraising where one entity sells
contact details to another for large amounts so that political >>>>>>>>>>>>donations can be diverted to personal legal fees. We do have "The
Taxpayer Union" which acts as a way around requirements to disclose
political donations - it funded the "Groundswell" protests, which
while fairly ineffective, avoided the obvious link to ACT or National
. . . You do however confirm your support for the "Me First" >>>>>>>>>>>>politics of the Right . . . - you are just not particularly honets
about it . . .
and
never have, that you say I do is a reflection of your integrity and
intelligence.
The tax payers union is not political - you are lying again. They do
not
receive "political" donations, you are lying again.
You are absolutely "Right", Tony, of course they do not receive >>>>>>>>>> Political Donations - only registered Political Parties can do that.
The Tax Payers Union is not a political party. So we agree on that at
least. What they do of course is merely publicise issues - some >>>>>>>>>> directly, others through their astro-turf organisation Groundswell
(although that wasn't very successful, they may have given up on that
now . . .) And some 'like-minded' people just happen to give them >>>>>>>>>> money for their work - some may think that political . . . but most
"right-thinking" people would keep those thoughts to themselves, >>>>>>>>>> wouldn't they?
controls your thoughts/postings.
The Tax Payers Union is about getting value for tax payers. The fact that
it
is in your Bad group, says a great deal.
See: https://www.taxpayers.org.nz/our_team
Jordan Williams : "... His background is in law and accounting and in
2011 he was spokesperson for Vote for Change, a lobby group that >>>>>>>>campaigned against the retention of the MMP electoral system. In 2019
Jordan was elected onto the Board of World Taxpayers Associations –
the global network of taxpayers groups working together for lower >>>>>>>>taxes, limited and accountable government, and taxpayer rights all >>>>>>>>over the world. "
David Farrar: "David is a well known political blogger and >>>>>>>>commentator. David also owns and manages the specialist polling agency
Curia Market Research and has an active involvement in Internet >>>>>>>>issues. He is an experienced political campaigner and former >>>>>>>>parliamentary staffer."
Laurence Kubiak: "... Government spending needs to create value for >>>>>>>>the New Zealand taxpayer, and robust, independent scrutiny is of vital
importance in any healthy democracy. The work of the Union will never
be more important than in the years ahead."
Casey Costello: "... Since 2016 she has been co-spokesperson of >>>>>>>>Hobson’s Pledge advocating for equality before the law for all New >>>>>>>>Zealanders. . . ."
Hon. Ruth Richardson : "Since 2016 she has been co-spokesperson of >>>>>>>>Hobson’s Pledge advocating for equality before the law for all New >>>>>>>>Zealanders. . . ."
Chris Milne: "Chris is a councillor at Hutt City Council, . . . .He >>>>>>>>is a former ACT Party Parliamentary Chief of Staff.""
Hon. John Boscowan: ""John is a businessman and former ACT MP and >>>>>>>>Minister of Consumer Affairs and Associate Minister of Commerce in the
John Key Government. . . .""
Jim Rose: ". . . "A lot of money would be saved by taxpayers if >>>>>>>>bureaucrats always had to put forward "Lilley’s option" – the option
of doing nothing – whenever there is a problem or a crisis." >>>>>>>>
And 7 staff (including 2 Research Interns)
Looking at the War on Waste, there is nothing of real significance - >>>>>>>>similar spending was criticised under the Key/English governments. >>>>>>>>
Cut corporate Welfare is a weak argument against ''picking winners"" -
with one of the examples being payment of some of the costs of >>>>>>>>Kiwirail - a State Owned Enterprise that is critical to our transport
network. Another example is the film industry - the Key government >>>>>>>>increased previous subsidies and they have largely been continued >>>>>>>>under Ardern/Hipkins - and over time we have developed a large film >>>>>>>>and movie processing industry that has more than justified the >>>>>>>>expenditure.
Not mentioned are the Covid payments to enable businesses to continue
to pay staff - despite a purported philosophical objection, the NZ >>>>>>>>Taxpayer Union applied for and received government funds . . . >>>>>>>>
Their objection to Three Waters is more on objecting to structural >>>>>>>>changes that amend technical ownership and responsibilities of local >>>>>>>>Councils. There have been many re-organisations of local government -
one of the largest was undertaken by National, with a large number >>>>>>>>being merged. It is arguable that the merged Auckland Council is not >>>>>>>>working well, but that is more on the governance impediments put in by
National. This section appears to not be concerned about money at all,
just on political views that are essentially Labour Bad, ACT/National
good.
Overall, it is a surprise how little they have to report given the >>>>>>>>level of staff employed. we do know they get involved in other issues
however - I mentioned one above. Importantly
With Farrar being a key player in Dirty Tricks, and both Farrar and >>>>>>>>Williams heavily embroiled in right wing politics for many years >>>>>>>>(initially National, but more recently with ACT as well), this is an >>>>>>>>organisation that is politically driven and motivated, and is hardly >>>>>>>>a group of raving lefties - do you agree, Gordon?
do
good. Shame on you.
Spinning dirt? What a strange perception of recognition that this is a >>>>>>political lobbying group that advocates for policies shared by ACT and >>>>>>the Right of the National Party. From their website:
"Our Vision: A prosperous, low-tax New Zealand with efficient, >>>>>>transparent and accountable government
Founded by David Farrar and Jordan Williams in 2013, we enjoy the >>>>>>support of nearly 200,000 registered members and supporters, making us >>>>>>the most popular campaign group championing fiscal conservatism and >>>>>>transparency in New Zealand. "
"We’re here to represent the common interests of all taxpayers and to
provide them with a voice in the corridors of power."
"We believe that new taxes should only be introduced when there are >>>>>>equal decreases in other taxes."
"We are a pressure group not just a traditional ‘think tank’ or >>>>>>business association. Our grassroots advocacy model is based on >>>>>>international taxpayer-group counterparts, particularly in the United >>>>>>Kingdom and Canada."
"The Taxpayers' Union is a member of the World Taxpayers Associations >>>>>>– a coalition of taxpayer advocacy groups working together for lower >>>>>>taxes, limited and accountable government, and taxpayer rights in more >>>>>>than 60 countries. One of our cofounders sits on the WTA's board." >>>>>>
"When we launched in 2013, the Union was little more than an idea that >>>>>>there was a need for a fiscally conservative lobby group in New >>>>>>Zealand."
So it appears that you regard pointing out that they advocate pushing >>>>>>for the aims of the ACT party is ''spinning dirt" - that says more >>>>>>about you than anyone else, Tony.
What they are is a lobby group that is not accountable to anyone >>>>>>(other than their strong links to ACT and National), is not subject to >>>>>>requirements to give the source of donations or restrictions on >>>>>>spending during an election period (although they may have to be >>>>>>careful in how blatant they can be . . .). Quite similar to the USA >>>>>>Political Action Committees - see >>>>>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_action_committee
There some Representatives at State and Federal level are so dependent >>>>>>on PAC support that it influences the way they are prepared to vote - >>>>>>that is said to be one reason why the Republican Party is so adamant >>>>>>about not wanting any control on guns . . .
Almost all of what I wrote is quotes from the website of the ""NZ >>>>Taxpayers Union"" - which parts did you see as lies, Tony?
They are not a political lobby group. No question about that.Well there is a question, since that is what they claim to be . . . >>>No they do not - they claim to represent tax payers regardless of the >>>government in power All else is silliness by you.
They claim they are a fiscally conservative lobby group - they >>unashamedly relate nearly everything they do to their view of >>government. They are a political lobby group.
Incorrect. From the Taxpayers Union website:
"Our Mission: Lower Taxes, Less Waste, More Accountability
Our Vision: A prosperous, low-tax New Zealand with efficient,
transparent and accountable government"
They most certainly are a lobby group but do not claim to representThat is why I say they are a political lobby group - not Political
any particular political party. They claim to represent Taxpayers >interests, and they do so regardless of which political parties run
the government.
Party lobby group. From above:
""Our Vision: A prosperous, low-tax New Zealand with efficient,
transparent and accountable government
Founded by David Farrar and Jordan Williams in 2013, we enjoy the
support of nearly 200,000 registered members and supporters, making us
the most popular campaign group championing fiscal conservatism and transparency in New Zealand. "
Most political parties want to have tax at the optimal level to
maximise benefits and minimise risks to the population - this
political lobby group has low taxes as its aim . . .
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 22:33:22 -0700 (PDT), John BowesBULLSHIT! All the other parties are destroying themselves Rich. Waititi with his racist, bullshit rants against non Maori, the Greens with their racist rants against cis males and Labour with it's racist attacks on democracy!
<bowes...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, June 27, 2023 at 5:22:01?PM UTC+12, Rich80105 wrote:I quoted quite a bit from that page - you are correct - it confirms
On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 04:47:14 -0000 (UTC), TonyA real fact for you Rich. YOU are a lying bastard! >https://www.taxpayers.org.nz/our_mission
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:They claim they are a fiscally conservative lobby group - they
On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 01:58:17 -0000 (UTC), TonyNo they do not - they claim to represent tax payers regardless of the
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 20:08:42 -0000 (UTC), TonyNearly all of what you have written are lies.
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 26 Jun 2023 03:51:54 GMT, Gordon <Gor...@leaf.net.nz> wrote:What a crock - you are just spinning dirt against people who are trying to
On 2023-06-26, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 02:34:21 -0000 (UTC), TonyYou know Rich that you have put a label on the Tax Payers Union, and this
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 01:21:42 -0000 (UTC), TonyNo I don't you pathetic little child. I do not support right wing
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/25/us/politics/trump-donations-legal-fees.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=curWhat rubbish.
Thankfully we don't have this sort of fundraising here - although the
"NZ Taxpayer Union" is perhaps a little similar - it does not have to
disclose who donates money to them or what they spend it on - a sort
of ACT/Nat "PAC" . . . Is the "Free Speech Union" the same as well?
You state is not here and then you ask whether itt is - do make your
mind
up.
The tax payer union is a privately funded non-political organisation
but
your
lies anout that continue.
If you were honets you would simply disagree with them but no you
have
to
attack them - there could be an obvious reason for thst - think about
it.
I was not aware that we did have fundraising where one entity sells
contact details to another for large amounts so that political >> >>>>>>>>>>donations can be diverted to personal legal fees. We do have "The
Taxpayer Union" which acts as a way around requirements to disclose
political donations - it funded the "Groundswell" protests, which
while fairly ineffective, avoided the obvious link to ACT or National
. . . You do however confirm your support for the "Me First"
politics of the Right . . . - you are just not particularly honets
about it . . .
politics
and
never have, that you say I do is a reflection of your integrity and
intelligence.
The tax payers union is not political - you are lying again. They do
not
receive "political" donations, you are lying again.
You are absolutely "Right", Tony, of course they do not receive >> >>>>>>>> Political Donations - only registered Political Parties can do that.
The Tax Payers Union is not a political party. So we agree on that at
least. What they do of course is merely publicise issues - some >> >>>>>>>> directly, others through their astro-turf organisation Groundswell
(although that wasn't very successful, they may have given up on that
now . . .) And some 'like-minded' people just happen to give them
money for their work - some may think that political . . . but most
"right-thinking" people would keep those thoughts to themselves, >> >>>>>>>> wouldn't they?
controls your thoughts/postings.
The Tax Payers Union is about getting value for tax payers. The fact that
it
is in your Bad group, says a great deal.
See: https://www.taxpayers.org.nz/our_team
Jordan Williams : "... His background is in law and accounting and in
2011 he was spokesperson for Vote for Change, a lobby group that
campaigned against the retention of the MMP electoral system. In 2019
Jordan was elected onto the Board of World Taxpayers Associations –
the global network of taxpayers groups working together for lower >> >>>>>>taxes, limited and accountable government, and taxpayer rights all >> >>>>>>over the world. "
David Farrar: "David is a well known political blogger and
commentator. David also owns and manages the specialist polling agency
Curia Market Research and has an active involvement in Internet
issues. He is an experienced political campaigner and former
parliamentary staffer."
Laurence Kubiak: "... Government spending needs to create value for >> >>>>>>the New Zealand taxpayer, and robust, independent scrutiny is of vital
importance in any healthy democracy. The work of the Union will never
be more important than in the years ahead."
Casey Costello: "... Since 2016 she has been co-spokesperson of
Hobson’s Pledge advocating for equality before the law for all New
Zealanders. . . ."
Hon. Ruth Richardson : "Since 2016 she has been co-spokesperson of >> >>>>>>Hobson’s Pledge advocating for equality before the law for all New
Zealanders. . . ."
Chris Milne: "Chris is a councillor at Hutt City Council, . . . .He >> >>>>>>is a former ACT Party Parliamentary Chief of Staff.""
Hon. John Boscowan: ""John is a businessman and former ACT MP and >> >>>>>>Minister of Consumer Affairs and Associate Minister of Commerce in the
John Key Government. . . .""
Jim Rose: ". . . "A lot of money would be saved by taxpayers if
bureaucrats always had to put forward "Lilley’s option" – the option
of doing nothing – whenever there is a problem or a crisis."
And 7 staff (including 2 Research Interns)
Looking at the War on Waste, there is nothing of real significance -
similar spending was criticised under the Key/English governments. >> >>>>>>
Cut corporate Welfare is a weak argument against ''picking winners"" -
with one of the examples being payment of some of the costs of
Kiwirail - a State Owned Enterprise that is critical to our transport
network. Another example is the film industry - the Key government >> >>>>>>increased previous subsidies and they have largely been continued >> >>>>>>under Ardern/Hipkins - and over time we have developed a large film >> >>>>>>and movie processing industry that has more than justified the
expenditure.
Not mentioned are the Covid payments to enable businesses to continue
to pay staff - despite a purported philosophical objection, the NZ >> >>>>>>Taxpayer Union applied for and received government funds . . .
Their objection to Three Waters is more on objecting to structural >> >>>>>>changes that amend technical ownership and responsibilities of local
Councils. There have been many re-organisations of local government -
one of the largest was undertaken by National, with a large number >> >>>>>>being merged. It is arguable that the merged Auckland Council is not
working well, but that is more on the governance impediments put in by
National. This section appears to not be concerned about money at all,
just on political views that are essentially Labour Bad, ACT/National
good.
Overall, it is a surprise how little they have to report given the >> >>>>>>level of staff employed. we do know they get involved in other issues
however - I mentioned one above. Importantly
With Farrar being a key player in Dirty Tricks, and both Farrar and >> >>>>>>Williams heavily embroiled in right wing politics for many years
(initially National, but more recently with ACT as well), this is an
organisation that is politically driven and motivated, and is hardly
a group of raving lefties - do you agree, Gordon?
do
good. Shame on you.
Spinning dirt? What a strange perception of recognition that this is a
political lobbying group that advocates for policies shared by ACT and
the Right of the National Party. From their website:
"Our Vision: A prosperous, low-tax New Zealand with efficient,
transparent and accountable government
Founded by David Farrar and Jordan Williams in 2013, we enjoy the
support of nearly 200,000 registered members and supporters, making us
the most popular campaign group championing fiscal conservatism and >> >>>>transparency in New Zealand. "
"We’re here to represent the common interests of all taxpayers and to
provide them with a voice in the corridors of power."
"We believe that new taxes should only be introduced when there are >> >>>>equal decreases in other taxes."
"We are a pressure group not just a traditional ‘think tank’ or >> >>>>business association. Our grassroots advocacy model is based on
international taxpayer-group counterparts, particularly in the United >> >>>>Kingdom and Canada."
"The Taxpayers' Union is a member of the World Taxpayers Associations >> >>>>– a coalition of taxpayer advocacy groups working together for lower
taxes, limited and accountable government, and taxpayer rights in more
than 60 countries. One of our cofounders sits on the WTA's board."
"When we launched in 2013, the Union was little more than an idea that
there was a need for a fiscally conservative lobby group in New
Zealand."
So it appears that you regard pointing out that they advocate pushing >> >>>>for the aims of the ACT party is ''spinning dirt" - that says more
about you than anyone else, Tony.
What they are is a lobby group that is not accountable to anyone
(other than their strong links to ACT and National), is not subject to
requirements to give the source of donations or restrictions on
spending during an election period (although they may have to be
careful in how blatant they can be . . .). Quite similar to the USA >> >>>>Political Action Committees - see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_action_committee
There some Representatives at State and Federal level are so dependent
on PAC support that it influences the way they are prepared to vote - >> >>>>that is said to be one reason why the Republican Party is so adamant >> >>>>about not wanting any control on guns . . .
Almost all of what I wrote is quotes from the website of the ""NZ
Taxpayers Union"" - which parts did you see as lies, Tony?
They are not a political lobby group. No question about that.Well there is a question, since that is what they claim to be . . .
government in power All else is silliness by you.
unashamedly relate nearly everything they do to their view of
government. They are a political lobby group.
that The Taxpayers Union is a political lobbying group - for example
from above: "When we launched in 2013, the Union was little more than
an idea that there was a need for a fiscally conservative lobby group
in New Zealand."
There is of course just such a lobby group now - headed by Jordan
Williams and David Farrar - both supporting ACT and National and
trying to destroy all other parties . . .
They most certainly are a lobby group but do not claim to represent
any particular political party. They claim to represent Taxpayers >>interests, and they do so regardless of which political parties run
the government.
That is why I say they are a political lobby group - not Political
Party lobby group. From above:
""Our Vision: A prosperous, low-tax New Zealand with efficient,
transparent and accountable government
Founded by David Farrar and Jordan Williams in 2013, we enjoy the
support of nearly 200,000 registered members and supporters, making us
the most popular campaign group championing fiscal conservatism and >transparency in New Zealand. "
Most political parties want to have tax at the optimal level to
maximise benefits and minimise risks to the population - this
political lobby group has low taxes as its aim . . .
On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 21:52:18 -0000 (UTC), TonyWhat a comprehensionless Marxist you are Rich! They hold ALL governments to account and have done so since they were formed!
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
This bit of silliness deserves its own thread.
They most certainly are a lobby group but do not claim to represent >>>any particular political party. They claim to represent Taxpayers >>>interests, and they do so regardless of which political parties run >>>the government.
That is why I say they are a political lobby group - not Political
Party lobby group. From above:
""Our Vision: A prosperous, low-tax New Zealand with efficient, >>transparent and accountable government
Founded by David Farrar and Jordan Williams in 2013, we enjoy the >>support of nearly 200,000 registered members and supporters, making us >>the most popular campaign group championing fiscal conservatism and >>transparency in New Zealand. "
Most political parties want to have tax at the optimal level to
maximise benefits and minimise risks to the population - this
political lobby group has low taxes as its aim . . .
You have consistently and repeatedly claimed that they support the National >party. By any definition, if that were true, they would be a political partyThey are not a political party, but they are a lobby group pushing a political agenda which just happens to be consistent with ACT /
lobby group. So now you say they are not that, therefore you agree that they do
not support the National party or any other party. Right?
A nice bit of squirming Rich80105.
They have consistently said that they do not suppoart any party,
So well done to change what you have previosly said and if you were honest you
would now support them in their endeavours to produce better fiscal and >governance outcomes in NZ.
They are apolitical as the rest of us and themselves have consistently pointed
out.
National policies, and is led by two individuals who have long time
links to the National Party, and on their Board are some with links to National and/or ACT.
I do not see you or me as apolitical, Tony, but I also do not see that
as a bad thing. I do try not to deny reality though . . .
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
This bit of silliness deserves its own thread.
They most certainly are a lobby group but do not claim to represent
any particular political party. They claim to represent Taxpayers >>>interests, and they do so regardless of which political parties run
the government.
That is why I say they are a political lobby group - not Political
Party lobby group. From above:
""Our Vision: A prosperous, low-tax New Zealand with efficient,
transparent and accountable government
Founded by David Farrar and Jordan Williams in 2013, we enjoy the
support of nearly 200,000 registered members and supporters, making us
the most popular campaign group championing fiscal conservatism and >>transparency in New Zealand. "
Most political parties want to have tax at the optimal level to
maximise benefits and minimise risks to the population - this
political lobby group has low taxes as its aim . . .
You have consistently and repeatedly claimed that they support the National >party. By any definition, if that were true, they would be a political party >lobby group. So now you say they are not that, therefore you agree that they do
not support the National party or any other party. Right?
A nice bit of squirming Rich80105.
They have consistently said that they do not suppoart any party,
So well done to change what you have previosly said and if you were honest you >would now support them in their endeavours to produce better fiscal and >governance outcomes in NZ.
They are apolitical as the rest of us and themselves have consistently pointed >out.
On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 21:52:18 -0000 (UTC), TonyThey have links to very party - they used to criticise the Key government - why can you not be fair?
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
This bit of silliness deserves its own thread.
They most certainly are a lobby group but do not claim to represent
any particular political party. They claim to represent Taxpayers >>>>interests, and they do so regardless of which political parties run
the government.
That is why I say they are a political lobby group - not Political
Party lobby group. From above:
""Our Vision: A prosperous, low-tax New Zealand with efficient, >>>transparent and accountable government
Founded by David Farrar and Jordan Williams in 2013, we enjoy the
support of nearly 200,000 registered members and supporters, making us >>>the most popular campaign group championing fiscal conservatism and >>>transparency in New Zealand. "
Most political parties want to have tax at the optimal level to
maximise benefits and minimise risks to the population - this
political lobby group has low taxes as its aim . . .
You have consistently and repeatedly claimed that they support the National >>party. By any definition, if that were true, they would be a political party >>lobby group. So now you say they are not that, therefore you agree that they >>do
not support the National party or any other party. Right?
A nice bit of squirming Rich80105.
They have consistently said that they do not suppoart any party,
So well done to change what you have previosly said and if you were honest >>you
would now support them in their endeavours to produce better fiscal and >>governance outcomes in NZ.
They are apolitical as the rest of us and themselves have consistently >>pointed
out.
They are not a political party, but they are a lobby group pushing a >political agenda which just happens to be consistent with ACT /
National policies, and is led by two individuals who have long time
links to the National Party, and on their Board are some with links to >National and/or ACT.
I do not see you or me as apolitical, Tony, but I also do not see thatOh you certainly do fail at that.
as a bad thing. I do try not to deny reality though . . .
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 21:52:18 -0000 (UTC), TonyThey have links to very party - they used to criticise the Key government - why
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
This bit of silliness deserves its own thread.
They most certainly are a lobby group but do not claim to represent >>>>>any particular political party. They claim to represent Taxpayers >>>>>interests, and they do so regardless of which political parties run >>>>>the government.
That is why I say they are a political lobby group - not Political >>>>Party lobby group. From above:
""Our Vision: A prosperous, low-tax New Zealand with efficient, >>>>transparent and accountable government
Founded by David Farrar and Jordan Williams in 2013, we enjoy the >>>>support of nearly 200,000 registered members and supporters, making us >>>>the most popular campaign group championing fiscal conservatism and >>>>transparency in New Zealand. "
Most political parties want to have tax at the optimal level to >>>>maximise benefits and minimise risks to the population - this
political lobby group has low taxes as its aim . . .
You have consistently and repeatedly claimed that they support the National >>>party. By any definition, if that were true, they would be a political party >>>lobby group. So now you say they are not that, therefore you agree that they >>>do
not support the National party or any other party. Right?
A nice bit of squirming Rich80105.
They have consistently said that they do not suppoart any party,
So well done to change what you have previosly said and if you were honest >>>you
would now support them in their endeavours to produce better fiscal and >>>governance outcomes in NZ.
They are apolitical as the rest of us and themselves have consistently >>>pointed
out.
They are not a political party, but they are a lobby group pushing a >>political agenda which just happens to be consistent with ACT /
National policies, and is led by two individuals who have long time
links to the National Party, and on their Board are some with links to >>National and/or ACT.
can you not be fair?
Oh you certainly do fail at that.
I do not see you or me as apolitical, Tony, but I also do not see that
as a bad thing. I do try not to deny reality though . . .
Reality is that they are apolitical just like me, but nothing like as shallow and immersed in political bullshit as you.
On 2023-06-28, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:No, I do not have to allow for that. I do accept it as a fact but I don't have to tolerate it.
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 21:52:18 -0000 (UTC), TonyThey have links to very party - they used to criticise the Key government - >>why
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
This bit of silliness deserves its own thread.
They most certainly are a lobby group but do not claim to represent >>>>>>any particular political party. They claim to represent Taxpayers >>>>>>interests, and they do so regardless of which political parties run >>>>>>the government.
That is why I say they are a political lobby group - not Political >>>>>Party lobby group. From above:
""Our Vision: A prosperous, low-tax New Zealand with efficient, >>>>>transparent and accountable government
Founded by David Farrar and Jordan Williams in 2013, we enjoy the >>>>>support of nearly 200,000 registered members and supporters, making us >>>>>the most popular campaign group championing fiscal conservatism and >>>>>transparency in New Zealand. "
Most political parties want to have tax at the optimal level to >>>>>maximise benefits and minimise risks to the population - this >>>>>political lobby group has low taxes as its aim . . .
You have consistently and repeatedly claimed that they support the National >>>>party. By any definition, if that were true, they would be a political >>>>party
lobby group. So now you say they are not that, therefore you agree that >>>>they
do
not support the National party or any other party. Right?
A nice bit of squirming Rich80105.
They have consistently said that they do not suppoart any party,
So well done to change what you have previosly said and if you were honest >>>>you
would now support them in their endeavours to produce better fiscal and >>>>governance outcomes in NZ.
They are apolitical as the rest of us and themselves have consistently >>>>pointed
out.
They are not a political party, but they are a lobby group pushing a >>>political agenda which just happens to be consistent with ACT /
National policies, and is led by two individuals who have long time
links to the National Party, and on their Board are some with links to >>>National and/or ACT.
can you not be fair?
Because Rich has a large bias. We have to allow for this, as much as it >frustrating to some.
Oh you certainly do fail at that.
I do not see you or me as apolitical, Tony, but I also do not see that
as a bad thing. I do try not to deny reality though . . .
Reality is that they are apolitical just like me, but nothing like as >>shallow
and immersed in political bullshit as you.
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