https://tinyurl.com/bdfjvvtf

Personally I believe that imprisonment is required to keep crims off
the streets. I acknowledge that prison can be a place where crims can
learn how to outsmart law enforcement and join criminal gangs, however
the protection of society trumps these concerns.


--
Crash McBash

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:

https://tinyurl.com/bdfjvvtf

Personally I believe that imprisonment is required to keep crims off
the streets. I acknowledge that prison can be a place where crims can
learn how to outsmart law enforcement and join criminal gangs, however
the protection of society trumps these concerns.

--
Crash McBash

This government has deliberately reduced the number of inmates. No wonder gangs are increasing in size and no wonder crime is increasing.
Prisons are a vital part of keeping people safe. By all means educate and attempt to rehabilitate them but those are secondary to protecting the community.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Sun, 4 Jun 2023 00:35:17 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:

https://tinyurl.com/bdfjvvtf

Personally I believe that imprisonment is required to keep crims off
the streets. I acknowledge that prison can be a place where crims can >>learn how to outsmart law enforcement and join criminal gangs, however
the protection of society trumps these concerns.


--
Crash McBash

This government has deliberately reduced the number of inmates. No wonder gangs
are increasing in size and no wonder crime is increasing.
Prisons are a vital part of keeping people safe. By all means educate and >attempt to rehabilitate them but those are secondary to protecting the >community.

I agree. Those that believe that prisons as rehab and/or educate are
a failure forget why we have prisons, which is for the benefit of
society in general and victims in particular (past, present and
future). There is no alternative except what we are seeing today.


--
Crash McBash

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Sun, 4 Jun 2023 00:35:17 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:

https://tinyurl.com/bdfjvvtf

Personally I believe that imprisonment is required to keep crims off
the streets. I acknowledge that prison can be a place where crims can >>>learn how to outsmart law enforcement and join criminal gangs, however >>>the protection of society trumps these concerns.


--
Crash McBash

This government has deliberately reduced the number of inmates. No wonder >>gangs
are increasing in size and no wonder crime is increasing.
Prisons are a vital part of keeping people safe. By all means educate and >>attempt to rehabilitate them but those are secondary to protecting the >>community.

I am not aware of any changes to sentencing provisions or the
procedures for approving bail. What are you talking about, Tony?

I did not mention sentencing provisions or bail, what are you talking about?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun, 4 Jun 2023 00:35:17 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:

https://tinyurl.com/bdfjvvtf

Personally I believe that imprisonment is required to keep crims off
the streets. I acknowledge that prison can be a place where crims can >>learn how to outsmart law enforcement and join criminal gangs, however
the protection of society trumps these concerns.


--
Crash McBash

This government has deliberately reduced the number of inmates. No wonder gangs
are increasing in size and no wonder crime is increasing.
Prisons are a vital part of keeping people safe. By all means educate and >attempt to rehabilitate them but those are secondary to protecting the >community.

I am not aware of any changes to sentencing provisions or the
procedures for approving bail. What are you talking about, Tony?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, June 5, 2023 at 4:10:50 PM UTC+12, Tony wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Sun, 4 Jun 2023 00:35:17 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Crash <nog...@dontbother.invalid> wrote:

https://tinyurl.com/bdfjvvtf

Personally I believe that imprisonment is required to keep crims off >>>the streets. I acknowledge that prison can be a place where crims can >>>learn how to outsmart law enforcement and join criminal gangs, however >>>the protection of society trumps these concerns.


--
Crash McBash

This government has deliberately reduced the number of inmates. No wonder >>gangs
are increasing in size and no wonder crime is increasing.
Prisons are a vital part of keeping people safe. By all means educate and >>attempt to rehabilitate them but those are secondary to protecting the >>community.

I am not aware of any changes to sentencing provisions or the
procedures for approving bail. What are you talking about, Tony?

I did not mention sentencing provisions or bail, what are you talking about?

Trying to distract because we know the police have been told to ease up on the charging because the Prison service is undermanned because of Labours incompetence!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 2023-06-05, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Sun, 4 Jun 2023 00:35:17 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:

https://tinyurl.com/bdfjvvtf

Personally I believe that imprisonment is required to keep crims off
the streets. I acknowledge that prison can be a place where crims can >>>learn how to outsmart law enforcement and join criminal gangs, however >>>the protection of society trumps these concerns.


--
Crash McBash

This government has deliberately reduced the number of inmates. No wonder gangs
are increasing in size and no wonder crime is increasing.
Prisons are a vital part of keeping people safe. By all means educate and >>attempt to rehabilitate them but those are secondary to protecting the >>community.

I am not aware of any changes to sentencing provisions or the
procedures for approving bail. What are you talking about, Tony?

Right, a quick check finds

https://www.corrections.govt.nz/resources/statistics/quarterly_prison_statistics/prison_stats_march_2023

along with alot of other pages of data.

There is a chart Total Prison Population.

March 2023 8376 inmates
Feb 2020 10250
March - July 2022 7750
March 2018 10645

So the number has come down, but it has gone up in recent times. To ne this suggests that the crime rate has gone up since August 2022. This would tie
in with the perception that the crime rate is now way up on what it has been.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Mon, 5 Jun 2023 04:10:48 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Sun, 4 Jun 2023 00:35:17 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:

https://tinyurl.com/bdfjvvtf

Personally I believe that imprisonment is required to keep crims off >>>>the streets. I acknowledge that prison can be a place where crims can >>>>learn how to outsmart law enforcement and join criminal gangs, however >>>>the protection of society trumps these concerns.


--
Crash McBash

This government has deliberately reduced the number of inmates. No wonder >>>gangs
are increasing in size and no wonder crime is increasing.
Prisons are a vital part of keeping people safe. By all means educate and >>>attempt to rehabilitate them but those are secondary to protecting the >>>community.

I am not aware of any changes to sentencing provisions or the
procedures for approving bail. What are you talking about, Tony?

I did not mention sentencing provisions or bail, what are you talking about?

So you accept that, once convicted, sentences have not changed - so
there must be other reasons for the small decline in prison
population. One of course that there is less crime - that is
consistent with Labour increasing the number of police as planned -
about the only area of crime that really gets in the news are those
with youth involved in ram raids - and currently they are not usually
facing prison (although adults are). Do you object to there being more
police? We do not know of course whether an ACT / Nat government would
continue to fund those higher levels of police.

You claim there has been a deliberate reduction in the number of
inmates, and implied that this was by action of the government.
Perhaps you could explain just what actions government have taken that
may have contributed to fewer prisoners other than increasing the
number of police.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Mon, 5 Jun 2023 04:10:48 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Sun, 4 Jun 2023 00:35:17 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:

https://tinyurl.com/bdfjvvtf

Personally I believe that imprisonment is required to keep crims off >>>>>the streets. I acknowledge that prison can be a place where crims can >>>>>learn how to outsmart law enforcement and join criminal gangs, however >>>>>the protection of society trumps these concerns.


--
Crash McBash

This government has deliberately reduced the number of inmates. No wonder >>>>gangs
are increasing in size and no wonder crime is increasing.
Prisons are a vital part of keeping people safe. By all means educate and >>>>attempt to rehabilitate them but those are secondary to protecting the >>>>community.

I am not aware of any changes to sentencing provisions or the
procedures for approving bail. What are you talking about, Tony?

I did not mention sentencing provisions or bail, what are you talking about?

So you accept that, once convicted, sentences have not changed - so
there must be other reasons for the small decline in prison
population. One of course that there is less crime - that is
consistent with Labour increasing the number of police as planned -
about the only area of crime that really gets in the news are those
with youth involved in ram raids - and currently they are not usually
facing prison (although adults are). Do you object to there being more >police? We do not know of course whether an ACT / Nat government would >continue to fund those higher levels of police.

Nothing to do with National or ACT. Keep on topic.
I accept nothing that you have written.

You claim there has been a deliberate reduction in the number of
inmates, and implied that this was by action of the government.
Perhaps you could explain just what actions government have taken that
may have contributed to fewer prisoners other than increasing the
number of police.

See https://consultations.justice.govt.nz/sector/long-term-insights-briefing/user_uploads/long-term-insights-briefing-consulation-document-1.pdf
It is all there.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Tuesday, 6 June 2023 at 08:24:05 UTC+12, Crash wrote:

On Mon, 05 Jun 2023 22:27:41 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

On Mon, 5 Jun 2023 04:10:48 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Sun, 4 Jun 2023 00:35:17 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Crash <nog...@dontbother.invalid> wrote: >>>>>https://tinyurl.com/bdfjvvtf

Personally I believe that imprisonment is required to keep crims off >>>>>the streets. I acknowledge that prison can be a place where crims can >>>>>learn how to outsmart law enforcement and join criminal gangs, however >>>>>the protection of society trumps these concerns.


--
Crash McBash

This government has deliberately reduced the number of inmates. No wonder >>>>gangs
are increasing in size and no wonder crime is increasing.
Prisons are a vital part of keeping people safe. By all means educate and >>>>attempt to rehabilitate them but those are secondary to protecting the >>>>community.

I am not aware of any changes to sentencing provisions or the >>>procedures for approving bail. What are you talking about, Tony?

I did not mention sentencing provisions or bail, what are you talking about?

So you accept that, once convicted, sentences have not changed - so
there must be other reasons for the small decline in prison
population.

Rich this is an example of how you irrationally twist an attribution
of a viewpoint from another poster. You don't respond to Tony's
assertion that he has made no comment (in this thread) about
sentencing provisions or bail. Having not addressed that you cannot reasonably draw any conclusion about what Tony does or does not
accept.

One of course that there is less crime - that is
consistent with Labour increasing the number of police as planned -
about the only area of crime that really gets in the news are those
with youth involved in ram raids - and currently they are not usually >facing prison (although adults are). Do you object to there being more >police? We do not know of course whether an ACT / Nat government would >continue to fund those higher levels of police.

You claim there has been a deliberate reduction in the number of
inmates, and implied that this was by action of the government.
Perhaps you could explain just what actions government have taken that
may have contributed to fewer prisoners other than increasing the
number of police.

--
Crash McBash

It has been Special K's mission to empty out the prisons from Day One, Dickbot.

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1711/S00027/lower-prison-muster-a-priority-in-corrections.htm

Of course you know this, but you are so dishonest you always attempt to twist and deflect and flat out lie to grease your way out of it.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Mon, 05 Jun 2023 22:27:41 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:

On Mon, 5 Jun 2023 04:10:48 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Sun, 4 Jun 2023 00:35:17 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:

https://tinyurl.com/bdfjvvtf

Personally I believe that imprisonment is required to keep crims off >>>>>the streets. I acknowledge that prison can be a place where crims can >>>>>learn how to outsmart law enforcement and join criminal gangs, however >>>>>the protection of society trumps these concerns.


--
Crash McBash

This government has deliberately reduced the number of inmates. No wonder >>>>gangs
are increasing in size and no wonder crime is increasing.
Prisons are a vital part of keeping people safe. By all means educate and >>>>attempt to rehabilitate them but those are secondary to protecting the >>>>community.

I am not aware of any changes to sentencing provisions or the
procedures for approving bail. What are you talking about, Tony?

I did not mention sentencing provisions or bail, what are you talking about?

So you accept that, once convicted, sentences have not changed - so
there must be other reasons for the small decline in prison
population.

Rich this is an example of how you irrationally twist an attribution
of a viewpoint from another poster. You don't respond to Tony's
assertion that he has made no comment (in this thread) about
sentencing provisions or bail. Having not addressed that you cannot
reasonably draw any conclusion about what Tony does or does not
accept.

One of course that there is less crime - that is
consistent with Labour increasing the number of police as planned -
about the only area of crime that really gets in the news are those
with youth involved in ram raids - and currently they are not usually
facing prison (although adults are). Do you object to there being more >police? We do not know of course whether an ACT / Nat government would >continue to fund those higher levels of police.

You claim there has been a deliberate reduction in the number of
inmates, and implied that this was by action of the government.
Perhaps you could explain just what actions government have taken that
may have contributed to fewer prisoners other than increasing the
number of police.

--
Crash McBash

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)