On Wed, 10 May 2023 21:43:01 -0000 (UTC), TonyThe interpretation is in the Treaty! There is one version of the treaty and a bullshit translation that you deny because you blindly follow anything the iwi elite and your communist masters are using to divide NZ!
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:The interpretation of Te Tiriti is with the Waitangi Tribunal; the government has not tried to change that, or impose any other
On Wed, 10 May 2023 05:07:43 +1200, BR <bl...@blah.blah> wrote:I was unaware that this government and the Maori Elite who have deliberately
On Tue, 09 May 2023 17:14:12 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:You cannot know that. Certainly from the pakeha side ending the war
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/book-of-the-week-the-first-tiriti-fraud?
Cut and pasted from the bought and paid for media.
The purpose of the treaty of Waitangi was to establish equality under >>>the law.
may have been one purpose. From the Maori side they were offered equal >>partnership in sovereignity. We now have a court to analyse claims >>relating to Ti Tiriti.
Equality under the law is the only equality that matters.
This is always subject to contract, Bill - one of the problems that
some right wing extremists appear to believe that they are able to >>reinterpret contracts after they have been formally agreed.
changed the meaning of the original treaty were right wing extremists, but now
that you have made that clear I can understand some of their behaviour. >Contracts are re-interpreted and re-negotiated all the time. THere is nothing
wrong in that.
interpretation. The Maori elite have to go through the same process as anyone else regarding claims under the Treaty. Try again.
The end.
Bill.
On Wed, 10 May 2023 21:43:01 -0000 (UTC), TonyNo need to try again. I stand by what I wrote which is correct.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2023 05:07:43 +1200, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:I was unaware that this government and the Maori Elite who have deliberately >>changed the meaning of the original treaty were right wing extremists, but >>now
On Tue, 09 May 2023 17:14:12 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>wrote:You cannot know that. Certainly from the pakeha side ending the war
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/book-of-the-week-the-first-tiriti-fraud?
Cut and pasted from the bought and paid for media.
The purpose of the treaty of Waitangi was to establish equality under >>>>the law.
may have been one purpose. From the Maori side they were offered equal >>>partnership in sovereignity. We now have a court to analyse claims >>>relating to Ti Tiriti.
Equality under the law is the only equality that matters.
This is always subject to contract, Bill - one of the problems that
some right wing extremists appear to believe that they are able to >>>reinterpret contracts after they have been formally agreed.
that you have made that clear I can understand some of their behaviour. >>Contracts are re-interpreted and re-negotiated all the time. THere is nothing >>wrong in that.
The interpretation of Te Tiriti is with the Waitangi Tribunal; the
government has not tried to change that, or impose any other
interpretation. The Maori elite have to go through the same process as
anyone else regarding claims under the Treaty. Try again.
The end.
Bill.
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2023 05:07:43 +1200, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:I was unaware that this government and the Maori Elite who have deliberately >changed the meaning of the original treaty were right wing extremists, but now >that you have made that clear I can understand some of their behaviour. >Contracts are re-interpreted and re-negotiated all the time. THere is nothing >wrong in that.
On Tue, 09 May 2023 17:14:12 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:You cannot know that. Certainly from the pakeha side ending the war
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/book-of-the-week-the-first-tiriti-fraud?
Cut and pasted from the bought and paid for media.
The purpose of the treaty of Waitangi was to establish equality under
the law.
may have been one purpose. From the Maori side they were offered equal >>partnership in sovereignity. We now have a court to analyse claims
relating to Ti Tiriti.
Equality under the law is the only equality that matters.
This is always subject to contract, Bill - one of the problems that
some right wing extremists appear to believe that they are able to >>reinterpret contracts after they have been formally agreed.
The end.
Bill.
On Tue, 9 May 2023 05:16:57 -0700 (PDT), John BowesOkay I sit corrected. But her claims are ancient. I prefer to accept the history of the Treaty in Michael Kings History of New Zealand. A more recent endeavour by a historian deeply immersed in maoritanga.
<bowes...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2023 at 10:21:02?PM UTC+12, Rich80105 wrote:Ruth Ross was an New Zealand Historian! https://teara.govt.nz/en/biographies/5r26/ross-ruth-miriam
On Tue, 9 May 2023 03:01:35 -0700 (PDT), John BowesI don't give a flying fuck! The history of the Treaty by NZ historians disagrees with her and that should take precedence over some Australian twit!
<bowes...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2023 at 5:21:32?PM UTC+12, Rich80105 wrote:Those in Dunedin may like to hear more here:
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/book-of-the-week-the-first-tiriti-fraud?Trust you to do a cut and paste about a book that looks like utter garbage by an Australian!
from which:
"In 1972, The New Zealand Journal of History published the article "Te >> >> Tiriti o Waitangi: Texts and Translations" by Ruth Ross (1920-1982). >> >> Its impact continues 50 years later, and is likely to remain
significant in another 50 years. It's one of the most influential
pieces of work by a New Zealand historian, not only for its impact on >> >> our understanding of our history but because of its role in
establishing the Waitangi Tribunal. However, when the work on the
article had first been done two decades earlier, it had been dismissed >> >> by historians as of no great significance. The new book A Bloody
Difficult Subject: Ruth Ross, te Tiriti o Waitangi, and the Making of >> >> History by New Zealand historian Bain Attwood, professor of history at >> >> Australia’s Monash University, tells the story of the paper, traces >> >> its consequences and raises more general questions about the way
histories of Te Tiriti and related texts have been written during the >> >> last 50 years and the implications for the history profession.
Ross had been commissioned by John Beaglehole in 1953 to write a new >> >> introduction for a government republishing of the Facsimiles of the
Declaration of Independence and the Treaty of Waitangi. Ross tackled >> >> the task by treating the documents not as sacred texts, but as human >> >> documents, written by humans in a context which can analysed in a
scholarly manner (rather like the German theological scholars did to >> >> the Bible at the beginning of the 19th century). She spent a lot of
time rummaging around in archives. From Attwood’s description of the >> >> period, this appears to have been unusual.
Ross concluded that there was, in fact, no Treaty of Waitangi. There >> >> was certainly Te Tiriti o Waitangi, a document signed at Waitangi on >> >> February 6, 1840. But on that day there was no English equivalent
which was a translation of Te Tiriti. I remember being astonished by >> >> her conclusion when I first read her paper. I was chasing up the
meaning of ‘taonga’ for a Waitangi claim. Until then, I had believed
the standard story that there were two documents on signing day of
roughly equivalent status. (International law gives precedence to the >> >> one in the indigenous language.) But there wasn’t one in English. To >> >> use the term ‘Treaty of Waitangi’ as if it existed in 1840 is a dead
giveaway that the user is 50 years out of date.
Governor William Hobson forwarded five different English versions to >> >> his superiors in Sydney and London, which surely suggests he did not >> >> have an authoritative text. Shortly after the signing, the US consul, >> >> James Clendon, hunted around for an official English text but no one >> >> could provide it. Those translations of Te Tiriti, made for land
dealing purposes in Auckland a decade later, would have been quite
unnecessary if there were an official English language version of Te >> >> Tiriti."
https://www.otago.ac.nz/news/events/otago0233609.html
The research and writings of Ruth Ross are accepted by historians -
the reality is that the English versions are not authoritative. Sadly
some in New Zealand will only believe what their prejudices persuade
them to believe - they lie to themselves and hence cannot ever be
trusted.
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:And I do not expect otherwise from you Tony - your inability to
On Wed, 10 May 2023 21:43:01 -0000 (UTC), TonyNo need to try again. I stand by what I wrote which is correct.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2023 05:07:43 +1200, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:I was unaware that this government and the Maori Elite who have deliberately >>>changed the meaning of the original treaty were right wing extremists, but >>>now
On Tue, 09 May 2023 17:14:12 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>wrote:You cannot know that. Certainly from the pakeha side ending the war
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/book-of-the-week-the-first-tiriti-fraud?
Cut and pasted from the bought and paid for media.
The purpose of the treaty of Waitangi was to establish equality under >>>>>the law.
may have been one purpose. From the Maori side they were offered equal >>>>partnership in sovereignity. We now have a court to analyse claims >>>>relating to Ti Tiriti.
Equality under the law is the only equality that matters.
This is always subject to contract, Bill - one of the problems that >>>>some right wing extremists appear to believe that they are able to >>>>reinterpret contracts after they have been formally agreed.
that you have made that clear I can understand some of their behaviour. >>>Contracts are re-interpreted and re-negotiated all the time. THere is nothing
wrong in that.
The interpretation of Te Tiriti is with the Waitangi Tribunal; the >>government has not tried to change that, or impose any other >>interpretation. The Maori elite have to go through the same process as >>anyone else regarding claims under the Treaty. Try again.
The end.
Bill.
On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 10:30:33?AM UTC+12, Rich80105 wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2023 21:43:01 -0000 (UTC), TonyThe interpretation is in the Treaty! There is one version of the treaty and a bullshit translation that you deny because you blindly follow anything the iwi elite and your communist masters are using to divide NZ!
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:The interpretation of Te Tiriti is with the Waitangi Tribunal; the
On Wed, 10 May 2023 05:07:43 +1200, BR <bl...@blah.blah> wrote:I was unaware that this government and the Maori Elite who have deliberately
On Tue, 09 May 2023 17:14:12 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com>You cannot know that. Certainly from the pakeha side ending the war
wrote:
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/book-of-the-week-the-first-tiriti-fraud?
Cut and pasted from the bought and paid for media.
The purpose of the treaty of Waitangi was to establish equality under
the law.
may have been one purpose. From the Maori side they were offered equal
partnership in sovereignity. We now have a court to analyse claims
relating to Ti Tiriti.
Equality under the law is the only equality that matters.
This is always subject to contract, Bill - one of the problems that
some right wing extremists appear to believe that they are able to
reinterpret contracts after they have been formally agreed.
changed the meaning of the original treaty were right wing extremists, but now
that you have made that clear I can understand some of their behaviour.
Contracts are re-interpreted and re-negotiated all the time. THere is nothing
wrong in that.
government has not tried to change that, or impose any other
interpretation. The Maori elite have to go through the same process as
anyone else regarding claims under the Treaty. Try again.
The end.
Bill.
On Wed, 10 May 2023 22:43:58 -0000 (UTC), TonyThe wrong treaty document. What don't you understand about something so simple?
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:And I do not expect otherwise from you Tony - your inability to
On Wed, 10 May 2023 21:43:01 -0000 (UTC), TonyNo need to try again. I stand by what I wrote which is correct.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2023 05:07:43 +1200, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:I was unaware that this government and the Maori Elite who have >>>>deliberately
On Tue, 09 May 2023 17:14:12 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>wrote:You cannot know that. Certainly from the pakeha side ending the war >>>>>may have been one purpose. From the Maori side they were offered equal >>>>>partnership in sovereignity. We now have a court to analyse claims >>>>>relating to Ti Tiriti.
Cut and pasted from the bought and paid for media.https://www.newsroom.co.nz/book-of-the-week-the-first-tiriti-fraud? >>>>>>
The purpose of the treaty of Waitangi was to establish equality under >>>>>>the law.
Equality under the law is the only equality that matters.
This is always subject to contract, Bill - one of the problems that >>>>>some right wing extremists appear to believe that they are able to >>>>>reinterpret contracts after they have been formally agreed.
changed the meaning of the original treaty were right wing extremists, but >>>>now
that you have made that clear I can understand some of their behaviour. >>>>Contracts are re-interpreted and re-negotiated all the time. THere is >>>>nothing
wrong in that.
The interpretation of Te Tiriti is with the Waitangi Tribunal; the >>>government has not tried to change that, or impose any other >>>interpretation. The Maori elite have to go through the same process as >>>anyone else regarding claims under the Treaty. Try again.
understand anything other than your own unsupported opinions is
eviddent in most of your posts. Did you read the url I gave, and
understand why Maori are quite reasonably expecting that all
governments will abide by the contract signed between the Crown and
their people so many years ago?
The end.
Bill.
On Wed, 10 May 2023 05:07:43 +1200, BR <bl...@blah.blah> wrote:
On Tue, 09 May 2023 17:14:12 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/book-of-the-week-the-first-tiriti-fraud?
Cut and pasted from the bought and paid for media.
The purpose of the treaty of Waitangi was to establish equality underYou cannot know that. Certainly from the pakeha side ending the war
the law.
may have been one purpose.
From the Maori side they were offered equal
partnership in sovereignity. We now have a court to analyse claims
relating to Ti Tiriti.
Equality under the law is the only equality that matters.This is always subject to contract, Bill - one of the problems that
some right wing extremists appear to believe that they are able to reinterpret contracts after they have been formally agreed.
The end.
Bill.
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2023 22:43:58 -0000 (UTC), TonyThe wrong treaty document. What don't you understand about something so simple?
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:And I do not expect otherwise from you Tony - your inability to
On Wed, 10 May 2023 21:43:01 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:No need to try again. I stand by what I wrote which is correct.
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2023 05:07:43 +1200, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:I was unaware that this government and the Maori Elite who have >>>>>deliberately
On Tue, 09 May 2023 17:14:12 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>>wrote:You cannot know that. Certainly from the pakeha side ending the war >>>>>>may have been one purpose. From the Maori side they were offered equal >>>>>>partnership in sovereignity. We now have a court to analyse claims >>>>>>relating to Ti Tiriti.
Cut and pasted from the bought and paid for media.https://www.newsroom.co.nz/book-of-the-week-the-first-tiriti-fraud? >>>>>>>
The purpose of the treaty of Waitangi was to establish equality under >>>>>>>the law.
Equality under the law is the only equality that matters.
This is always subject to contract, Bill - one of the problems that >>>>>>some right wing extremists appear to believe that they are able to >>>>>>reinterpret contracts after they have been formally agreed.
changed the meaning of the original treaty were right wing extremists, but >>>>>now
that you have made that clear I can understand some of their behaviour. >>>>>Contracts are re-interpreted and re-negotiated all the time. THere is >>>>>nothing
wrong in that.
The interpretation of Te Tiriti is with the Waitangi Tribunal; the >>>>government has not tried to change that, or impose any other >>>>interpretation. The Maori elite have to go through the same process as >>>>anyone else regarding claims under the Treaty. Try again.
understand anything other than your own unsupported opinions is
eviddent in most of your posts. Did you read the url I gave, and
understand why Maori are quite reasonably expecting that all
governments will abide by the contract signed between the Crown and
their people so many years ago?
The end.
Bill.
On Wed, 10 May 2023 23:57:04 -0000 (UTC), TonyNo you are wrong - simple.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2023 22:43:58 -0000 (UTC), TonyThe wrong treaty document. What don't you understand about something so >>simple?
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:And I do not expect otherwise from you Tony - your inability to >>>understand anything other than your own unsupported opinions is
On Wed, 10 May 2023 21:43:01 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:No need to try again. I stand by what I wrote which is correct.
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2023 05:07:43 +1200, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:I was unaware that this government and the Maori Elite who have >>>>>>deliberately
On Tue, 09 May 2023 17:14:12 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>>>wrote:You cannot know that. Certainly from the pakeha side ending the war >>>>>>>may have been one purpose. From the Maori side they were offered equal >>>>>>>partnership in sovereignity. We now have a court to analyse claims >>>>>>>relating to Ti Tiriti.
Cut and pasted from the bought and paid for media.https://www.newsroom.co.nz/book-of-the-week-the-first-tiriti-fraud? >>>>>>>>
The purpose of the treaty of Waitangi was to establish equality under >>>>>>>>the law.
Equality under the law is the only equality that matters.
This is always subject to contract, Bill - one of the problems that >>>>>>>some right wing extremists appear to believe that they are able to >>>>>>>reinterpret contracts after they have been formally agreed.
changed the meaning of the original treaty were right wing extremists, >>>>>>but
now
that you have made that clear I can understand some of their behaviour. >>>>>>Contracts are re-interpreted and re-negotiated all the time. THere is >>>>>>nothing
wrong in that.
The interpretation of Te Tiriti is with the Waitangi Tribunal; the >>>>>government has not tried to change that, or impose any other >>>>>interpretation. The Maori elite have to go through the same process as >>>>>anyone else regarding claims under the Treaty. Try again.
eviddent in most of your posts. Did you read the url I gave, and >>>understand why Maori are quite reasonably expecting that all
governments will abide by the contract signed between the Crown and
their people so many years ago?
Why would anyone want to use any document other than the vversion
signed at Waitangi and then taken around New Zealand for further
signatures?
That was teh point of the url I posted - some beleived that the
document actually signed is the wrong retay document. They are of
course wring themselves.
The end.
Bill.
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2023 23:57:04 -0000 (UTC), TonyNo you are wrong - simple.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2023 22:43:58 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:The wrong treaty document. What don't you understand about something so >>>simple?
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:And I do not expect otherwise from you Tony - your inability to >>>>understand anything other than your own unsupported opinions is >>>>eviddent in most of your posts. Did you read the url I gave, and >>>>understand why Maori are quite reasonably expecting that all >>>>governments will abide by the contract signed between the Crown and >>>>their people so many years ago?
On Wed, 10 May 2023 21:43:01 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:No need to try again. I stand by what I wrote which is correct.
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2023 05:07:43 +1200, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:I was unaware that this government and the Maori Elite who have >>>>>>>deliberately
On Tue, 09 May 2023 17:14:12 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>>>>wrote:You cannot know that. Certainly from the pakeha side ending the war >>>>>>>>may have been one purpose. From the Maori side they were offered equal >>>>>>>>partnership in sovereignity. We now have a court to analyse claims >>>>>>>>relating to Ti Tiriti.
Cut and pasted from the bought and paid for media.https://www.newsroom.co.nz/book-of-the-week-the-first-tiriti-fraud? >>>>>>>>>
The purpose of the treaty of Waitangi was to establish equality under >>>>>>>>>the law.
Equality under the law is the only equality that matters.
This is always subject to contract, Bill - one of the problems that >>>>>>>>some right wing extremists appear to believe that they are able to >>>>>>>>reinterpret contracts after they have been formally agreed.
changed the meaning of the original treaty were right wing extremists, >>>>>>>but
now
that you have made that clear I can understand some of their behaviour. >>>>>>>Contracts are re-interpreted and re-negotiated all the time. THere is >>>>>>>nothing
wrong in that.
The interpretation of Te Tiriti is with the Waitangi Tribunal; the >>>>>>government has not tried to change that, or impose any other >>>>>>interpretation. The Maori elite have to go through the same process as >>>>>>anyone else regarding claims under the Treaty. Try again.
Why would anyone want to use any document other than the vversion
signed at Waitangi and then taken around New Zealand for further >>signatures?
That was teh point of the url I posted - some beleived that the
document actually signed is the wrong retay document. They are of
course wring themselves.
There are two treaty tyexts accepted in this country. They are very different. >You cannot hang on to the one that suits your political bent, you have to allow
for them both.
And that, dear old chap, is what I was trying to explain.
The end.
Bill.
On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 8:33:59?AM UTC+12, Rich80105 wrote:Do you have evidence to suppert that, John? Perhaps there was an
On Wed, 10 May 2023 05:07:43 +1200, BR <bl...@blah.blah> wrote:
On Tue, 09 May 2023 17:14:12 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com>You cannot know that. Certainly from the pakeha side ending the war
wrote:
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/book-of-the-week-the-first-tiriti-fraud?
Cut and pasted from the bought and paid for media.
The purpose of the treaty of Waitangi was to establish equality under
the law.
may have been one purpose.
Ending what war Rich? The treaty wasn't about that. It was about responding to a request from Maori for protection by Victoria!
I look forward to any evidence of another view John - now is yourFrom the Maori side they were offered equal
partnership in sovereignity. We now have a court to analyse claims
relating to Ti Tiriti.
Talk about rewriting history! Why you persist in airing your total lack of knowledge on subjects is beyond me rich. I just put it down to typical communist practice when they know they can't win honestly!
It's a treaty Rich and none in the history of the world have been so abused as the treaty of Waitangi by stupid little semi literate commissars like you!This is always subject to contract, Bill - one of the problems that
Equality under the law is the only equality that matters.
some right wing extremists appear to believe that they are able to
reinterpret contracts after they have been formally agreed.
Besides which nobody who signed the treaty is alive today...
The end.
Bill.
On Wed, 10 May 2023 18:31:34 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
<bowes...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 8:33:59?AM UTC+12, Rich80105 wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2023 05:07:43 +1200, BR <bl...@blah.blah> wrote:
On Tue, 09 May 2023 17:14:12 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com>You cannot know that. Certainly from the pakeha side ending the war
wrote:
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/book-of-the-week-the-first-tiriti-fraud?
Cut and pasted from the bought and paid for media.
The purpose of the treaty of Waitangi was to establish equality under
the law.
may have been one purpose.
Ending what war Rich? The treaty wasn't about that. It was about responding to a request from Maori for protection by Victoria!Do you have evidence to suppert that, John? Perhaps there was an
element of self-interest from both sides . . .
From the Maori side they were offered equal
partnership in sovereignity. We now have a court to analyse claims
relating to Ti Tiriti.
Talk about rewriting history! Why you persist in airing your total lack of knowledge on subjects is beyond me rich. I just put it down to typical communist practice when they know they can't win honestly!I look forward to any evidence of another view John - now is your opportunity to refute any part of the summary of a book that I posted
. . .
I have not been involved in any Treaty Claims, but have seen theIt's a treaty Rich and none in the history of the world have been so abused as the treaty of Waitangi by stupid little semi literate commissars like you!This is always subject to contract, Bill - one of the problems that
Equality under the law is the only equality that matters.
some right wing extremists appear to believe that they are able to
reinterpret contracts after they have been formally agreed.
evidence that both National and Labour governments have made some good settlements; but also seen that we are facing less simple claims
relating to broader issues such as land, water and air.
Besides which nobody who signed the treaty is alive today...So? What difference does that make, John? It was accepted that the
Treaty would remain valid after all that had signed it had died, and
that has happened. What is wrong with that?
The end.
Bill.
On Thu, 11 May 2023 03:05:15 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:It has been determined that the Treaty signed by both parties is the effective Treaty - you have provided no evidence to the contrary.
On Wed, 10 May 2023 23:57:04 -0000 (UTC), TonyNo you are wrong - simple.
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2023 22:43:58 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>><lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:The wrong treaty document. What don't you understand about something so >>>simple?
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:And I do not expect otherwise from you Tony - your inability to >>>>understand anything other than your own unsupported opinions is >>>>eviddent in most of your posts. Did you read the url I gave, and >>>>understand why Maori are quite reasonably expecting that all >>>>governments will abide by the contract signed between the Crown and >>>>their people so many years ago?
On Wed, 10 May 2023 21:43:01 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>><lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:No need to try again. I stand by what I wrote which is correct.
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2023 05:07:43 +1200, BR <bl...@blah.blah> wrote: >>>>>>>>I was unaware that this government and the Maori Elite who have >>>>>>>deliberately
On Tue, 09 May 2023 17:14:12 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> >>>>>>>>>wrote:You cannot know that. Certainly from the pakeha side ending the war >>>>>>>>may have been one purpose. From the Maori side they were offered equal
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/book-of-the-week-the-first-tiriti-fraud?
Cut and pasted from the bought and paid for media.
The purpose of the treaty of Waitangi was to establish equality under
the law.
partnership in sovereignity. We now have a court to analyse claims >>>>>>>>relating to Ti Tiriti.
Equality under the law is the only equality that matters.
This is always subject to contract, Bill - one of the problems that >>>>>>>>some right wing extremists appear to believe that they are able to >>>>>>>>reinterpret contracts after they have been formally agreed.
changed the meaning of the original treaty were right wing extremists,
but
now
that you have made that clear I can understand some of their behaviour.
Contracts are re-interpreted and re-negotiated all the time. THere is >>>>>>>nothing
wrong in that.
The interpretation of Te Tiriti is with the Waitangi Tribunal; the >>>>>>government has not tried to change that, or impose any other >>>>>>interpretation. The Maori elite have to go through the same process as >>>>>>anyone else regarding claims under the Treaty. Try again.
Why would anyone want to use any document other than the vversion
signed at Waitangi and then taken around New Zealand for further >>signatures?
That was teh point of the url I posted - some beleived that the
document actually signed is the wrong retay document. They are of
course wring themselves.
There are two treaty tyexts accepted in this country. They are very different.
You cannot hang on to the one that suits your political bent, you have to allow
for them both.
And that, dear old chap, is what I was trying to explain.
The end.
Bill.
On Wed, 10 May 2023 23:57:04 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:Why would anyone want to use any document other than the vversion
On Wed, 10 May 2023 22:43:58 -0000 (UTC), TonyThe wrong treaty document. What don't you understand about something so simple?
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:And I do not expect otherwise from you Tony - your inability to >>understand anything other than your own unsupported opinions is
On Wed, 10 May 2023 21:43:01 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>><lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:No need to try again. I stand by what I wrote which is correct.
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2023 05:07:43 +1200, BR <bl...@blah.blah> wrote:I was unaware that this government and the Maori Elite who have >>>>>deliberately
On Tue, 09 May 2023 17:14:12 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> >>>>>>>wrote:You cannot know that. Certainly from the pakeha side ending the war >>>>>>may have been one purpose. From the Maori side they were offered equal >>>>>>partnership in sovereignity. We now have a court to analyse claims >>>>>>relating to Ti Tiriti.
Cut and pasted from the bought and paid for media.https://www.newsroom.co.nz/book-of-the-week-the-first-tiriti-fraud? >>>>>>>
The purpose of the treaty of Waitangi was to establish equality under >>>>>>>the law.
Equality under the law is the only equality that matters.
This is always subject to contract, Bill - one of the problems that >>>>>>some right wing extremists appear to believe that they are able to >>>>>>reinterpret contracts after they have been formally agreed.
changed the meaning of the original treaty were right wing extremists, but
now
that you have made that clear I can understand some of their behaviour. >>>>>Contracts are re-interpreted and re-negotiated all the time. THere is >>>>>nothing
wrong in that.
The interpretation of Te Tiriti is with the Waitangi Tribunal; the >>>>government has not tried to change that, or impose any other >>>>interpretation. The Maori elite have to go through the same process as >>>>anyone else regarding claims under the Treaty. Try again.
eviddent in most of your posts. Did you read the url I gave, and >>understand why Maori are quite reasonably expecting that all
governments will abide by the contract signed between the Crown and >>their people so many years ago?
signed at Waitangi and then taken around New Zealand for further
signatures?
That was teh point of the url I posted - some beleived that the
document actually signed is the wrong retay document. They are of
course wring themselves.
The end.
Bill.
On Thu, 11 May 2023 03:05:15 -0000 (UTC), TonyNo I have not but you are so ignorant that you cannot do any research.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2023 23:57:04 -0000 (UTC), TonyNo you are wrong - simple.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2023 22:43:58 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:The wrong treaty document. What don't you understand about something so >>>>simple?
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:And I do not expect otherwise from you Tony - your inability to >>>>>understand anything other than your own unsupported opinions is >>>>>eviddent in most of your posts. Did you read the url I gave, and >>>>>understand why Maori are quite reasonably expecting that all >>>>>governments will abide by the contract signed between the Crown and >>>>>their people so many years ago?
On Wed, 10 May 2023 21:43:01 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:No need to try again. I stand by what I wrote which is correct.
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2023 05:07:43 +1200, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote: >>>>>>>>>I was unaware that this government and the Maori Elite who have >>>>>>>>deliberately
On Tue, 09 May 2023 17:14:12 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>wrote:You cannot know that. Certainly from the pakeha side ending the war >>>>>>>>>may have been one purpose. From the Maori side they were offered equal >>>>>>>>>partnership in sovereignity. We now have a court to analyse claims >>>>>>>>>relating to Ti Tiriti.
Cut and pasted from the bought and paid for media.https://www.newsroom.co.nz/book-of-the-week-the-first-tiriti-fraud? >>>>>>>>>>
The purpose of the treaty of Waitangi was to establish equality under >>>>>>>>>>the law.
Equality under the law is the only equality that matters.
This is always subject to contract, Bill - one of the problems that >>>>>>>>>some right wing extremists appear to believe that they are able to >>>>>>>>>reinterpret contracts after they have been formally agreed.
changed the meaning of the original treaty were right wing extremists, >>>>>>>>but
now
that you have made that clear I can understand some of their behaviour. >>>>>>>>Contracts are re-interpreted and re-negotiated all the time. THere is >>>>>>>>nothing
wrong in that.
The interpretation of Te Tiriti is with the Waitangi Tribunal; the >>>>>>>government has not tried to change that, or impose any other >>>>>>>interpretation. The Maori elite have to go through the same process as >>>>>>>anyone else regarding claims under the Treaty. Try again.
Why would anyone want to use any document other than the vversion
signed at Waitangi and then taken around New Zealand for further >>>signatures?
That was teh point of the url I posted - some beleived that the
document actually signed is the wrong retay document. They are of
course wring themselves.
There are two treaty tyexts accepted in this country. They are very >>different.
You cannot hang on to the one that suits your political bent, you have to >>allow
for them both.
And that, dear old chap, is what I was trying to explain.
It has been determined that the Treaty signed by both parties is the >effective Treaty - you have provided no evidence to the contrary.
The end.
Bill.
On Wed, 10 May 2023 05:07:43 +1200, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:
On Tue, 09 May 2023 17:14:12 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:You cannot know that.
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/book-of-the-week-the-first-tiriti-fraud?
Cut and pasted from the bought and paid for media.
The purpose of the treaty of Waitangi was to establish equality under
the law.
Certainly from the pakeha side ending the war may have been one purpose.
From the Maori side they were offered equal partnership in sovereignity.
We now have a court to analyse claims relating to Ti Tiriti.
Equality under the law is the only equality that matters.
This is always subject to contract,
Bill - one of the problems that
some right wing extremists appear to believe
that they are able to reinterpret contracts after they have been formally agreed.
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 11 May 2023 03:05:15 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2023 23:57:04 -0000 (UTC), TonyNo you are wrong - simple.
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2023 22:43:58 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>><lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:The wrong treaty document. What don't you understand about something so >>>>simple?
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2023 21:43:01 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>>><lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:No need to try again. I stand by what I wrote which is correct. >>>>>And I do not expect otherwise from you Tony - your inability to >>>>>understand anything other than your own unsupported opinions is >>>>>eviddent in most of your posts. Did you read the url I gave, and >>>>>understand why Maori are quite reasonably expecting that all >>>>>governments will abide by the contract signed between the Crown and >>>>>their people so many years ago?
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2023 05:07:43 +1200, BR <bl...@blah.blah> wrote: >>>>>>>>>changed the meaning of the original treaty were right wing extremists,
On Tue, 09 May 2023 17:14:12 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com>You cannot know that. Certainly from the pakeha side ending the war >>>>>>>>>may have been one purpose. From the Maori side they were offered equal
wrote:
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/book-of-the-week-the-first-tiriti-fraud?
Cut and pasted from the bought and paid for media.
The purpose of the treaty of Waitangi was to establish equality under
the law.
partnership in sovereignity. We now have a court to analyse claims >>>>>>>>>relating to Ti Tiriti.
This is always subject to contract, Bill - one of the problems that >>>>>>>>>some right wing extremists appear to believe that they are able to >>>>>>>>>reinterpret contracts after they have been formally agreed. >>>>>>>>I was unaware that this government and the Maori Elite who have >>>>>>>>deliberately
Equality under the law is the only equality that matters. >>>>>>>>>
but
now
that you have made that clear I can understand some of their behaviour.
Contracts are re-interpreted and re-negotiated all the time. THere is
nothing
wrong in that.
The interpretation of Te Tiriti is with the Waitangi Tribunal; the >>>>>>>government has not tried to change that, or impose any other >>>>>>>interpretation. The Maori elite have to go through the same process as
anyone else regarding claims under the Treaty. Try again.
Why would anyone want to use any document other than the vversion >>>signed at Waitangi and then taken around New Zealand for further >>>signatures?
That was teh point of the url I posted - some beleived that the >>>document actually signed is the wrong retay document. They are of >>>course wring themselves.
There are two treaty tyexts accepted in this country. They are very >>different.
You cannot hang on to the one that suits your political bent, you have to >>allow
for them both.
And that, dear old chap, is what I was trying to explain.
It has been determined that the Treaty signed by both parties is the >effective Treaty - you have provided no evidence to the contrary.No I have not but you are so ignorant that you cannot do any research.
There has been no such determination that you have presented except by you and
your political whores.
Here you go, it is just a start but you can do the rest for yourself, with a little luck. https://nzhistory.govt.nz/politics/treaty/read-the-Treaty/differences-between-the-texts
From guess who - oh wow the bleeding government, who would have thought?
Imbeciles like Rich don't even understand that the Maori so called translation doesn't even bare a vague resemblance to the english version. The loons just trolling because he's far to stupid to even try to debate!
The end.
Bill.
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