However there is also a lot of myth as well. But it's Redbaiter which explains it...
https://theredbaiter.com/2023/03/16/maori/
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 09:24:44 +1300, Crash <nog...@dontbother.invalid>wtf are you blabbering about Rich? Is Redbaiter another who makes you nervous? We don't need pontless drivel from you. Stick to topic for once in your pointless and useless life ffs!
wrote:
On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 17:23:38 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
<bowes...@gmail.com> wrote:
However there is also a lot of myth as well. But it's Redbaiter which explains it...
https://theredbaiter.com/2023/03/16/maori/
It is a particular point of view that while factually correct ignores
the injustices dealt to Maori by the Europeans both before and after
the ToW was signed. While I agree that the Treaty has little
significance today Redbaiter ignores the fact that Europeans were able
to subjugate Maori with superior military firepower in direct contrast
to what was agreed to in the Treaty.
Maori culture was suppressed. Maori children were punished at school
for speaking Maori and rural Maori in particular were treated as >second-class citizens even if they no longer lived in traditional Pa.
All of this is the primary source of the renaissance of Maori.I remember a story from immediately post WW2 - at a settlement in
Northland. The School was next to a Maori settlement and a Catholic
Church. One of the Maori Children was born with a Club foot. The
Priest (who had been come from Ireland) refused to agree to or
facilitate travel to Auckland for medical attention - his attitude was
that Maori were a dying race who were expected to die out, and that
the Club foot was a decision of God; not for him or others to
question. Stories of Pakeha teachers refusing to allow Maori to be
spoken are not always true, many Maori parents knew that succeeding in
a Pakeha world was important and that the children needed to learn
both languages - if the parents did not speak English the teachers and
any Pakeha children were the only exposure they had. Sadly in some communities Maori fluency was lost, particularly when young people
moved to cities. We are getting abtter balance today, and it is
accepted that a second (and for some a third language) are important
ways in which to encourage easier understanding of different cultures
and ways of thinking - there is an advantage in being multi-lingual
that many New Zealanders miss out on.
On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 17:23:38 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
<bowesjohn02@gmail.com> wrote:
However there is also a lot of myth as well. But it's Redbaiter which explains it...
https://theredbaiter.com/2023/03/16/maori/
It is a particular point of view that while factually correct ignores
the injustices dealt to Maori by the Europeans both before and after
the ToW was signed. While I agree that the Treaty has little
significance today Redbaiter ignores the fact that Europeans were able
to subjugate Maori with superior military firepower in direct contrast
to what was agreed to in the Treaty.
Maori culture was suppressed. Maori children were punished at school
for speaking Maori and rural Maori in particular were treated as
second-class citizens even if they no longer lived in traditional Pa.
All of this is the primary source of the renaissance of Maori.
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 09:24:44 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:
On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 17:23:38 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes >><bowesjohn02@gmail.com> wrote:
However there is also a lot of myth as well. But it's Redbaiter which explains it...
https://theredbaiter.com/2023/03/16/maori/
It is a particular point of view that while factually correct ignores
the injustices dealt to Maori by the Europeans both before and after
the ToW was signed. While I agree that the Treaty has little
significance today Redbaiter ignores the fact that Europeans were able
to subjugate Maori with superior military firepower in direct contrast
to what was agreed to in the Treaty.
Maori culture was suppressed. Maori children were punished at school
for speaking Maori and rural Maori in particular were treated as >>second-class citizens even if they no longer lived in traditional Pa.
All of this is the primary source of the renaissance of Maori.
I remember a story from immediately post WW2 - at a settlement in
Northland. The School was next to a Maori settlement and a Catholic
Church. One of the Maori Children was born with a Club foot. The
Priest (who had been come from Ireland) refused to agree to or
facilitate travel to Auckland for medical attention - his attitude was
that Maori were a dying race who were expected to die out, and that
the Club foot was a decision of God; not for him or others to
question. Stories of Pakeha teachers refusing to allow Maori to be
spoken are not always true, many Maori parents knew that succeeding in
a Pakeha world was important and that the children needed to learn
both languages - if the parents did not speak English the teachers and
any Pakeha children were the only exposure they had. Sadly in some communities Maori fluency was lost, particularly when young people
moved to cities. We are getting abtter balance today, and it is
accepted that a second (and for some a third language) are important
ways in which to encourage easier understanding of different cultures
and ways of thinking - there is an advantage in being multi-lingual
that many New Zealanders miss out on.
On 18 Mar 2023 03:52:16 GMT, Gordon <Gor...@leaf.net.nz> wrote:So how about pointing out what this so called disinformation is Rich. Much better idea than another rant about how important the bullshit translation of the treaty is...
On 2023-03-17, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 09:24:44 +1300, Crash <nog...@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:
On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 17:23:38 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes >>><bowes...@gmail.com> wrote:
However there is also a lot of myth as well. But it's Redbaiter which explains it...
https://theredbaiter.com/2023/03/16/maori/
It is a particular point of view that while factually correct ignores >>>the injustices dealt to Maori by the Europeans both before and after >>>the ToW was signed. While I agree that the Treaty has little >>>significance today Redbaiter ignores the fact that Europeans were able >>>to subjugate Maori with superior military firepower in direct contrast >>>to what was agreed to in the Treaty.
Maori culture was suppressed. Maori children were punished at school >>>for speaking Maori and rural Maori in particular were treated as >>>second-class citizens even if they no longer lived in traditional Pa.
All of this is the primary source of the renaissance of Maori.
I remember a story from immediately post WW2 - at a settlement in
Northland. The School was next to a Maori settlement and a Catholic
Church. One of the Maori Children was born with a Club foot. The
Priest (who had been come from Ireland) refused to agree to or
facilitate travel to Auckland for medical attention - his attitude was
that Maori were a dying race who were expected to die out, and that
the Club foot was a decision of God; not for him or others to
question. Stories of Pakeha teachers refusing to allow Maori to be
spoken are not always true, many Maori parents knew that succeeding in
a Pakeha world was important and that the children needed to learn
both languages - if the parents did not speak English the teachers and
any Pakeha children were the only exposure they had. Sadly in some
communities Maori fluency was lost, particularly when young people
moved to cities. We are getting abtter balance today, and it is
accepted that a second (and for some a third language) are important
ways in which to encourage easier understanding of different cultures
and ways of thinking - there is an advantage in being multi-lingual
that many New Zealanders miss out on.
This is an unusal post from Rich. No politics. Just a story of the past and >the conditions which existed at the time.
To get through this current Maori/Pakeha tension it is necessary that both >sides see/understand how the other side feels. We can not do the wrongs of >the past, only go forward towards easing the tensions.
The way of understanding of history often has story telling in as part of >it.The Treaty of Waitangi has been instrumental in enabling good research relating to past actions, and a legal process and method of coming to
an agreement as to a level of compensation. Our laws give authority to
that Treaty, and both National and Labour have both honoured the
spirit of the Treaty. Methods of settlement have developed as
different issues are covered, and we are not getting to issues which
are not as easy, and require both recognition of past wrongs, but a
method of ensuring that the commitments of the treaty are met in the
future. National introduced a form of agreement that they called co-governance, which retained sovereignity with the crown, but
involved both Treaty partners in ongoing decision-making subject to parliamentary direction.
Sadly dis-information from the likes of the racist "Redbaiter" have
caused some with similar views to assert all sorts of crazy views,
possibly with the aim of de-stabilising community relationships within
New Zealand. Such actions are of course to be deplored, I expect the
leaders of opposition parties will return to a more responsible
affirmation of their commitment to the Treaty and our Laws as we get
closer to the election - no party can afford to alienate a
considerable portion of the population.
On 2023-03-17, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:Or was it an attempt at changing the subject?
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 09:24:44 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:
On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 17:23:38 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes >>><bowesjohn02@gmail.com> wrote:
However there is also a lot of myth as well. But it's Redbaiter which >>>>explains it...
https://theredbaiter.com/2023/03/16/maori/
It is a particular point of view that while factually correct ignores
the injustices dealt to Maori by the Europeans both before and after
the ToW was signed. While I agree that the Treaty has little >>>significance today Redbaiter ignores the fact that Europeans were able
to subjugate Maori with superior military firepower in direct contrast
to what was agreed to in the Treaty.
Maori culture was suppressed. Maori children were punished at school
for speaking Maori and rural Maori in particular were treated as >>>second-class citizens even if they no longer lived in traditional Pa.
All of this is the primary source of the renaissance of Maori.
I remember a story from immediately post WW2 - at a settlement in
Northland. The School was next to a Maori settlement and a Catholic
Church. One of the Maori Children was born with a Club foot. The
Priest (who had been come from Ireland) refused to agree to or
facilitate travel to Auckland for medical attention - his attitude was
that Maori were a dying race who were expected to die out, and that
the Club foot was a decision of God; not for him or others to
question. Stories of Pakeha teachers refusing to allow Maori to be
spoken are not always true, many Maori parents knew that succeeding in
a Pakeha world was important and that the children needed to learn
both languages - if the parents did not speak English the teachers and
any Pakeha children were the only exposure they had. Sadly in some
communities Maori fluency was lost, particularly when young people
moved to cities. We are getting abtter balance today, and it is
accepted that a second (and for some a third language) are important
ways in which to encourage easier understanding of different cultures
and ways of thinking - there is an advantage in being multi-lingual
that many New Zealanders miss out on.
This is an unusal post from Rich. No politics. Just a story of the past and >the conditions which existed at the time.
To get through this current Maori/Pakeha tension it is necessary that both >sides see/understand how the other side feels. We can not do the wrongs of >the past, only go forward towards easing the tensions.Absolutely - but part of that is the removal of any attempt to reduce democratic rights in NZ. Nothing in the past justifies an attack on democracy (te huahua to name but one example).
The way of understanding of history often has story telling in as part ofAs it should.
it.
On 2023-03-17, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 09:24:44 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:
On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 17:23:38 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes >>><bowesjohn02@gmail.com> wrote:
However there is also a lot of myth as well. But it's Redbaiter which explains it...
https://theredbaiter.com/2023/03/16/maori/
It is a particular point of view that while factually correct ignores
the injustices dealt to Maori by the Europeans both before and after
the ToW was signed. While I agree that the Treaty has little >>>significance today Redbaiter ignores the fact that Europeans were able
to subjugate Maori with superior military firepower in direct contrast
to what was agreed to in the Treaty.
Maori culture was suppressed. Maori children were punished at school
for speaking Maori and rural Maori in particular were treated as >>>second-class citizens even if they no longer lived in traditional Pa.
All of this is the primary source of the renaissance of Maori.
I remember a story from immediately post WW2 - at a settlement in
Northland. The School was next to a Maori settlement and a Catholic
Church. One of the Maori Children was born with a Club foot. The
Priest (who had been come from Ireland) refused to agree to or
facilitate travel to Auckland for medical attention - his attitude was
that Maori were a dying race who were expected to die out, and that
the Club foot was a decision of God; not for him or others to
question. Stories of Pakeha teachers refusing to allow Maori to be
spoken are not always true, many Maori parents knew that succeeding in
a Pakeha world was important and that the children needed to learn
both languages - if the parents did not speak English the teachers and
any Pakeha children were the only exposure they had. Sadly in some
communities Maori fluency was lost, particularly when young people
moved to cities. We are getting abtter balance today, and it is
accepted that a second (and for some a third language) are important
ways in which to encourage easier understanding of different cultures
and ways of thinking - there is an advantage in being multi-lingual
that many New Zealanders miss out on.
This is an unusal post from Rich. No politics. Just a story of the past and >the conditions which existed at the time.
To get through this current Maori/Pakeha tension it is necessary that both >sides see/understand how the other side feels. We can not do the wrongs of >the past, only go forward towards easing the tensions.
The way of understanding of history often has story telling in as part of
it.
... Stories of Pakeha teachers refusing to allow Maori to be spoken
are not always true, many Maori parents knew that succeeding in a
Pakeha world was important and that the children needed to learn both languages - if the parents did not speak English the teachers and any
Pakeha children were the only exposure they had.
On 18 Mar 2023 03:52:16 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
On 2023-03-17, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 09:24:44 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:
On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 17:23:38 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes >>>><bowesjohn02@gmail.com> wrote:
However there is also a lot of myth as well. But it's Redbaiter which explains it...
https://theredbaiter.com/2023/03/16/maori/
It is a particular point of view that while factually correct ignores >>>>the injustices dealt to Maori by the Europeans both before and after >>>>the ToW was signed. While I agree that the Treaty has little >>>>significance today Redbaiter ignores the fact that Europeans were able >>>>to subjugate Maori with superior military firepower in direct contrast >>>>to what was agreed to in the Treaty.
Maori culture was suppressed. Maori children were punished at school >>>>for speaking Maori and rural Maori in particular were treated as >>>>second-class citizens even if they no longer lived in traditional Pa.
All of this is the primary source of the renaissance of Maori.
I remember a story from immediately post WW2 - at a settlement in
Northland. The School was next to a Maori settlement and a Catholic
Church. One of the Maori Children was born with a Club foot. The
Priest (who had been come from Ireland) refused to agree to or
facilitate travel to Auckland for medical attention - his attitude was
that Maori were a dying race who were expected to die out, and that
the Club foot was a decision of God; not for him or others to
question. Stories of Pakeha teachers refusing to allow Maori to be
spoken are not always true, many Maori parents knew that succeeding in
a Pakeha world was important and that the children needed to learn
both languages - if the parents did not speak English the teachers and
any Pakeha children were the only exposure they had. Sadly in some
communities Maori fluency was lost, particularly when young people
moved to cities. We are getting abtter balance today, and it is
accepted that a second (and for some a third language) are important
ways in which to encourage easier understanding of different cultures
and ways of thinking - there is an advantage in being multi-lingual
that many New Zealanders miss out on.
This is an unusal post from Rich. No politics. Just a story of the past and >>the conditions which existed at the time.
To get through this current Maori/Pakeha tension it is necessary that both >>sides see/understand how the other side feels. We can not do the wrongs of >>the past, only go forward towards easing the tensions.
The way of understanding of history often has story telling in as part of >>it.
The Treaty of Waitangi has been instrumental in enabling good research >relating to past actions, and a legal process and method of coming to
an agreement as to a level of compensation. Our laws give authority to
that Treaty, and both National and Labour have both honoured the
spirit of the Treaty. Methods of settlement have developed as
different issues are covered, and we are not getting to issues which
are not as easy, and require both recognition of past wrongs, but a
method of ensuring that the commitments of the treaty are met in the
future. National introduced a form of agreement that they called >co-governance, which retained sovereignity with the crown, but
involved both Treaty partners in ongoing decision-making subject to >parliamentary direction.
Sadly dis-information from the likes of the racist "Redbaiter" have
caused some with similar views to assert all sorts of crazy views,
possibly with the aim of de-stabilising community relationships within
New Zealand. Such actions are of course to be deplored, I expect the
leaders of opposition parties will return to a more responsible
affirmation of their commitment to the Treaty and our Laws as we get
closer to the election - no party can afford to alienate a
considerable portion of the population.
Maori culture was suppressed. Maori children were punished at school...
for speaking Maori
On Saturday, 18 March 2023 at 09:24:44 UTC+13, Crash wrote:
...
Maori culture was suppressed. Maori children were punished at school
for speaking Maori
This was largely instigated by enlightened Maori. They were not trying to suppress Te Reo per se. They were trying to enforce proficiency with English as they saw it as essential to the success of the Maori people.
On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 16:30:32 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Saturday, 18 March 2023 at 09:24:44 UTC+13, Crash wrote:
...
Maori culture was suppressed. Maori children were punished at school
for speaking Maori
This was largely instigated by enlightened Maori. They were not trying to suppress Te Reo per se. They were trying to enforce proficiency with English as they saw it as essential to the success of the Maori people.
I am not sure what you mean by 'enlightened Maori'. While there was
an element of truth in enforcing proficiency in English, punishment
for speaking Maori was never justified. English was and still is a compulsory subject and anyone who is not proficient in at least
speaking it suffers the consequences regardless of their birth
culture.
Consider this: (remembering it is from living victims)
https://tinyurl.com/2p8rbxwk
On Saturday, 18 March 2023 at 09:24:44 UTC+13, Crash wrote:
...
Maori culture was suppressed. Maori children were punished at school
for speaking Maori
This was largely instigated by enlightened Maori. They were not trying to suppress Te Reo per se. They were trying to enforce proficiency with English as they saw it as essential to the success of the Maori people.
On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 16:30:32 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Saturday, 18 March 2023 at 09:24:44 UTC+13, Crash wrote:
...
Maori culture was suppressed. Maori children were punished at school
for speaking Maori
This was largely instigated by enlightened Maori. They were not trying to suppress Te Reo per se. They were trying to enforce proficiency with English as they saw it as essential to the success of the Maori people.I am not sure what you mean by 'enlightened Maori'. While there was
an element of truth in enforcing proficiency in English, punishment
for speaking Maori was never justified. English was and still is a compulsory subject and anyone who is not proficient in at least
speaking it suffers the consequences regardless of their birth
culture.
Consider this: (remembering it is from living victims)
https://tinyurl.com/2p8rbxwk
--Had a Maori friend back in the sixty's who wanted to do Maori at high school. He was turned down because they surmised that he should know it! What the english did was unforgiveable. However it shouldn't be used to push Maori on every sign in NZ today...
Crash McBash
However there is also a lot of myth as well. But it's Redbaiter which explains it...
https://theredbaiter.com/2023/03/16/maori/
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