• Labour moving NZ towards 3rd world healthcare

    From JohnO@21:1/5 to All on Tue Mar 7 23:19:18 2023
    It is what you get when you put unsuitable, incompetent people such as Angry little Andy at the controls (Verrall appears to be no better). Like the rest of his mob, he seems to think any problem will go away if you throw enough money, consultants and
    spin doctors at it. Then he's scratching his head as the health outcomes get worse the more money he throws at it.

    "total systemic failure": https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/03/auckland-health-workers-say-they-re-screwed-following-emergency-department-overflow.html

    Northland rest home has *no* GP to call on: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northland-age/news/kaitaias-gp-crisis-deepens-as-medical-practice-pulls-out-of-towns-only-rest-home/26J3LCOC5BEDZB7BX6XEXMFTJY/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gordon@21:1/5 to JohnO on Wed Mar 8 21:08:51 2023
    On 2023-03-08, JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> wrote:
    It is what you get when you put unsuitable, incompetent people such as Angry little Andy at the controls (Verrall appears to be no better). Like the rest of his mob, he seems to think any problem will go away if you throw enough money, consultants and
    spin doctors at it. Then he's scratching his head as the health outcomes get worse the more money he throws at it.

    "total systemic failure": https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/03/auckland-health-workers-say-they-re-screwed-following-emergency-department-overflow.html

    Northland rest home has *no* GP to call on: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northland-age/news/kaitaias-gp-crisis-deepens-as-medical-practice-pulls-out-of-towns-only-rest-home/26J3LCOC5BEDZB7BX6XEXMFTJY/


    "More than 11,000 Northlanders, most of whom are Māori, are thought to be not enrolled with a general
    practice."

    This is a great start to ensuring that a section of the population will not have the standard of health that they could have.

    Health is something which affects everyone, waiting for the shambles to
    arrive before giving it attention is crazy.

    It will take time and money to fix.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Crash@21:1/5 to All on Thu Mar 9 11:27:00 2023
    On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 23:19:18 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    It is what you get when you put unsuitable, incompetent people such as Angry little Andy at the controls (Verrall appears to be no better). Like the rest of his mob, he seems to think any problem will go away if you throw enough money, consultants and
    spin doctors at it. Then he's scratching his head as the health outcomes get worse the more money he throws at it.

    "total systemic failure": >https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/03/auckland-health-workers-say-they-re-screwed-following-emergency-department-overflow.html

    At least with a unified national health delivery system having
    replaced the ridiculous DHB structure, there is an opportunity to
    rationalise front-line healthcare services without the overhead of 20
    fiefdoms.

    This will take time. It is too soon to judge Verrall, but at least
    she has medical experience. However she is shackled by Labour and
    their collective inexperience in holding senior Government leaders to
    account of performance objectives.

    Northland rest home has *no* GP to call on: >https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northland-age/news/kaitaias-gp-crisis-deepens-as-medical-practice-pulls-out-of-towns-only-rest-home/26J3LCOC5BEDZB7BX6XEXMFTJY/

    Northland has just 4 Hospitals - Whangarei (90 minutes drive for me),
    Kaitaia, Rawene and Kawakawa (30 minutes drive). Whangarei and
    Kaitaia have public access EDs, Kawakawa has an ED only accessible by
    ambulance and Rawene has no ED.

    I am astonished that such Rest Homes are allowed to operate with out
    sourced medical care. At least they have a nearby hospital. It is
    reasonable to expect that Te Hiku Hauora is required to enrol any new
    admission not already enrolled, so when the contract ends new
    admissions may be refused enrolment.

    I live in the Far North and every aged care facility in the town
    closest to me has their own primary medical care facility except one -
    and that facility has one under construction, presumably because ORAs
    are very hard to sell without hospital facilities included.



    --
    Crash McBash

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to All on Thu Mar 9 16:36:33 2023
    On Thu, 09 Mar 2023 11:27:00 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
    wrote:

    On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 23:19:18 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    It is what you get when you put unsuitable, incompetent people such as Angry little Andy at the controls (Verrall appears to be no better). Like the rest of his mob, he seems to think any problem will go away if you throw enough money, consultants and
    spin doctors at it. Then he's scratching his head as the health outcomes get worse the more money he throws at it.

    "total systemic failure": >>https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/03/auckland-health-workers-say-they-re-screwed-following-emergency-department-overflow.html

    At least with a unified national health delivery system having
    replaced the ridiculous DHB structure, there is an opportunity to
    rationalise front-line healthcare services without the overhead of 20 >fiefdoms.

    This will take time. It is too soon to judge Verrall, but at least
    she has medical experience. However she is shackled by Labour and
    their collective inexperience in holding senior Government leaders to
    account of performance objectives.

    Northland rest home has *no* GP to call on: >>https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northland-age/news/kaitaias-gp-crisis-deepens-as-medical-practice-pulls-out-of-towns-only-rest-home/26J3LCOC5BEDZB7BX6XEXMFTJY/

    Northland has just 4 Hospitals - Whangarei (90 minutes drive for me), >Kaitaia, Rawene and Kawakawa (30 minutes drive). Whangarei and
    Kaitaia have public access EDs, Kawakawa has an ED only accessible by >ambulance and Rawene has no ED.

    I am astonished that such Rest Homes are allowed to operate with out
    sourced medical care. At least they have a nearby hospital. It is
    reasonable to expect that Te Hiku Hauora is required to enrol any new >admission not already enrolled, so when the contract ends new
    admissions may be refused enrolment.

    I live in the Far North and every aged care facility in the town
    closest to me has their own primary medical care facility except one -
    and that facility has one under construction, presumably because ORAs
    are very hard to sell without hospital facilities included.

    I have family connections with the Far North, and have a couple of the
    books by Dr Smith of Rawene - he developed the use of 'nurse
    practitioners" to give some assistance to those unable to get to
    hospital - there were no private GPs in the area in those days.

    Effectively we have an expectation that when the private sector fails,
    it is up to government to fill the gap. Neither National or Labour
    were prepared to anticipate the failure of the private market in that
    area, but in hindsight it was highly likely. There have been some
    innovative approaches - one GP did some consultations using video
    services - he also publicised the problems in the area before I
    believe moving away. Shane Reti was a GP who for some time was a
    member of the Northland District Health Board; he rightly received
    praise for helping Northland with first meningococcal vaccine, and
    more well known later with Covid vaccines.

    You have pointed out that some of the Rest Home operators anticipated
    potential issues with health care, but not enough. That would not have
    been helped by the shrinking budget for other than acute services
    under National, and the independent Health Boards operating in their
    own silos had no brief to extend hospital services to cover GP work.

    It is debatable whether a little of the money spent on roads would
    have been better spent on extending hospital services. In the past
    teachers were encouraged to move to rural areas by using a commitment
    to service in lieu of training costs; that requires coordination at a
    national level, and the Health Dept has been fairly stretched with
    Covid and other demands.

    I went to a hospital in England some years ago - they had a problem
    that most GP lists were full, and they had a site where all wanting
    medical services who did not have a GP went and were triaged as to
    whether they could be served there when a doctor became available or
    whether they were sent to one of four hospitals. The reality is that
    there comes a stage with any occupation that is reliant on government
    for funding needs to be regarded as a public service. Integrating
    hospital and GP services may result in better integrated and more
    widely distributed services in Northland, with more travelling by air
    to larger hospitals.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From JohnO@21:1/5 to All on Thu Mar 9 01:37:46 2023
    On Thursday, 9 March 2023 at 16:38:32 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
    On Thu, 09 Mar 2023 11:27:00 +1300, Crash <nog...@dontbother.invalid>
    wrote:
    On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 23:19:18 -0800 (PST), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    It is what you get when you put unsuitable, incompetent people such as Angry little Andy at the controls (Verrall appears to be no better). Like the rest of his mob, he seems to think any problem will go away if you throw enough money, consultants
    and spin doctors at it. Then he's scratching his head as the health outcomes get worse the more money he throws at it.

    "total systemic failure": >>https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/03/auckland-health-workers-say-they-re-screwed-following-emergency-department-overflow.html

    At least with a unified national health delivery system having
    replaced the ridiculous DHB structure, there is an opportunity to >rationalise front-line healthcare services without the overhead of 20 >fiefdoms.

    This will take time. It is too soon to judge Verrall, but at least
    she has medical experience. However she is shackled by Labour and
    their collective inexperience in holding senior Government leaders to >account of performance objectives.

    Northland rest home has *no* GP to call on: >>https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northland-age/news/kaitaias-gp-crisis-deepens-as-medical-practice-pulls-out-of-towns-only-rest-home/26J3LCOC5BEDZB7BX6XEXMFTJY/

    Northland has just 4 Hospitals - Whangarei (90 minutes drive for me), >Kaitaia, Rawene and Kawakawa (30 minutes drive). Whangarei and
    Kaitaia have public access EDs, Kawakawa has an ED only accessible by >ambulance and Rawene has no ED.

    I am astonished that such Rest Homes are allowed to operate with out >sourced medical care. At least they have a nearby hospital. It is >reasonable to expect that Te Hiku Hauora is required to enrol any new >admission not already enrolled, so when the contract ends new
    admissions may be refused enrolment.

    I live in the Far North and every aged care facility in the town
    closest to me has their own primary medical care facility except one -
    and that facility has one under construction, presumably because ORAs
    are very hard to sell without hospital facilities included.
    I have family connections with the Far North, and have a couple of the
    books by Dr Smith of Rawene - he developed the use of 'nurse
    practitioners" to give some assistance to those unable to get to
    hospital - there were no private GPs in the area in those days.

    Effectively we have an expectation that when the private sector fails,
    it is up to government to fill the gap. Neither National or Labour
    were prepared to anticipate the failure of the private market in that
    area, but in hindsight it was highly likely. There have been some
    innovative approaches - one GP did some consultations using video
    services - he also publicised the problems in the area before I
    believe moving away. Shane Reti was a GP who for some time was a
    member of the Northland District Health Board; he rightly received
    praise for helping Northland with first meningococcal vaccine, and
    more well known later with Covid vaccines.

    You have pointed out that some of the Rest Home operators anticipated potential issues with health care, but not enough. That would not have
    been helped by the shrinking budget for other than acute services
    under National, and the independent Health Boards operating in their
    own silos had no brief to extend hospital services to cover GP work.

    It is debatable whether a little of the money spent on roads would
    have been better spent on extending hospital services. In the past
    teachers were encouraged to move to rural areas by using a commitment
    to service in lieu of training costs; that requires coordination at a national level, and the Health Dept has been fairly stretched with
    Covid and other demands.

    I went to a hospital in England some years ago - they had a problem
    that most GP lists were full, and they had a site where all wanting
    medical services who did not have a GP went and were triaged as to
    whether they could be served there when a doctor became available or
    whether they were sent to one of four hospitals. The reality is that
    there comes a stage with any occupation that is reliant on government
    for funding needs to be regarded as a public service. Integrating
    hospital and GP services may result in better integrated and more
    widely distributed services in Northland, with more travelling by air
    to larger hospitals.

    No word on whether any of the three interviewees were hired. Or if they were even suitable. What a staggering waste of money.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/03/500k-overseas-recruitment-ad-campaign-called-a-failure-after-just-3-people-were-interviewed.html

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to All on Fri Mar 10 05:47:39 2023
    On Thu, 9 Mar 2023 01:37:46 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Thursday, 9 March 2023 at 16:38:32 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
    On Thu, 09 Mar 2023 11:27:00 +1300, Crash <nog...@dontbother.invalid>
    wrote:
    On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 23:19:18 -0800 (PST), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    It is what you get when you put unsuitable, incompetent people such as Angry little Andy at the controls (Verrall appears to be no better). Like the rest of his mob, he seems to think any problem will go away if you throw enough money, consultants
    and spin doctors at it. Then he's scratching his head as the health outcomes get worse the more money he throws at it.

    "total systemic failure":
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/03/auckland-health-workers-say-they-re-screwed-following-emergency-department-overflow.html

    At least with a unified national health delivery system having
    replaced the ridiculous DHB structure, there is an opportunity to
    rationalise front-line healthcare services without the overhead of 20
    fiefdoms.

    This will take time. It is too soon to judge Verrall, but at least
    she has medical experience. However she is shackled by Labour and
    their collective inexperience in holding senior Government leaders to
    account of performance objectives.

    Northland rest home has *no* GP to call on:
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northland-age/news/kaitaias-gp-crisis-deepens-as-medical-practice-pulls-out-of-towns-only-rest-home/26J3LCOC5BEDZB7BX6XEXMFTJY/

    Northland has just 4 Hospitals - Whangarei (90 minutes drive for me),
    Kaitaia, Rawene and Kawakawa (30 minutes drive). Whangarei and
    Kaitaia have public access EDs, Kawakawa has an ED only accessible by
    ambulance and Rawene has no ED.

    I am astonished that such Rest Homes are allowed to operate with out
    sourced medical care. At least they have a nearby hospital. It is
    reasonable to expect that Te Hiku Hauora is required to enrol any new
    admission not already enrolled, so when the contract ends new
    admissions may be refused enrolment.

    I live in the Far North and every aged care facility in the town
    closest to me has their own primary medical care facility except one -
    and that facility has one under construction, presumably because ORAs
    are very hard to sell without hospital facilities included.
    I have family connections with the Far North, and have a couple of the
    books by Dr Smith of Rawene - he developed the use of 'nurse
    practitioners" to give some assistance to those unable to get to
    hospital - there were no private GPs in the area in those days.

    Effectively we have an expectation that when the private sector fails,
    it is up to government to fill the gap. Neither National or Labour
    were prepared to anticipate the failure of the private market in that
    area, but in hindsight it was highly likely. There have been some
    innovative approaches - one GP did some consultations using video
    services - he also publicised the problems in the area before I
    believe moving away. Shane Reti was a GP who for some time was a
    member of the Northland District Health Board; he rightly received
    praise for helping Northland with first meningococcal vaccine, and
    more well known later with Covid vaccines.

    You have pointed out that some of the Rest Home operators anticipated
    potential issues with health care, but not enough. That would not have
    been helped by the shrinking budget for other than acute services
    under National, and the independent Health Boards operating in their
    own silos had no brief to extend hospital services to cover GP work.

    It is debatable whether a little of the money spent on roads would
    have been better spent on extending hospital services. In the past
    teachers were encouraged to move to rural areas by using a commitment
    to service in lieu of training costs; that requires coordination at a
    national level, and the Health Dept has been fairly stretched with
    Covid and other demands.

    I went to a hospital in England some years ago - they had a problem
    that most GP lists were full, and they had a site where all wanting
    medical services who did not have a GP went and were triaged as to
    whether they could be served there when a doctor became available or
    whether they were sent to one of four hospitals. The reality is that
    there comes a stage with any occupation that is reliant on government
    for funding needs to be regarded as a public service. Integrating
    hospital and GP services may result in better integrated and more
    widely distributed services in Northland, with more travelling by air
    to larger hospitals.

    No word on whether any of the three interviewees were hired. Or if they were even suitable. What a staggering waste of money.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/03/500k-overseas-recruitment-ad-campaign-called-a-failure-after-just-3-people-were-interviewed.html

    Good on them for trying

    "We need more general practitioners. I think the fundamental core
    issue is we need to be training more home-grown New Zealand general practitioners," Dr Betty said.

    That is very true - but it takes about 10 years to get that having an
    effect - yet another failure of the previous National-led government.
    There will likely be a sufficient change in 4 years time when if
    National may be elected they can make the same mistake again . . .

    Meanwhile, the structure in NOrthland needs to change - time the
    hospital system employed GPs - not to compete with private GPS, but to supplement them.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Bowes@21:1/5 to All on Thu Mar 9 12:13:29 2023
    On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 5:49:37 AM UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
    On Thu, 9 Mar 2023 01:37:46 -0800 (PST), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Thursday, 9 March 2023 at 16:38:32 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
    On Thu, 09 Mar 2023 11:27:00 +1300, Crash <nog...@dontbother.invalid>
    wrote:
    On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 23:19:18 -0800 (PST), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    It is what you get when you put unsuitable, incompetent people such as Angry little Andy at the controls (Verrall appears to be no better). Like the rest of his mob, he seems to think any problem will go away if you throw enough money, consultants
    and spin doctors at it. Then he's scratching his head as the health outcomes get worse the more money he throws at it.

    "total systemic failure":
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/03/auckland-health-workers-say-they-re-screwed-following-emergency-department-overflow.html

    At least with a unified national health delivery system having
    replaced the ridiculous DHB structure, there is an opportunity to
    rationalise front-line healthcare services without the overhead of 20
    fiefdoms.

    This will take time. It is too soon to judge Verrall, but at least
    she has medical experience. However she is shackled by Labour and
    their collective inexperience in holding senior Government leaders to
    account of performance objectives.

    Northland rest home has *no* GP to call on:
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northland-age/news/kaitaias-gp-crisis-deepens-as-medical-practice-pulls-out-of-towns-only-rest-home/26J3LCOC5BEDZB7BX6XEXMFTJY/

    Northland has just 4 Hospitals - Whangarei (90 minutes drive for me),
    Kaitaia, Rawene and Kawakawa (30 minutes drive). Whangarei and
    Kaitaia have public access EDs, Kawakawa has an ED only accessible by
    ambulance and Rawene has no ED.

    I am astonished that such Rest Homes are allowed to operate with out
    sourced medical care. At least they have a nearby hospital. It is
    reasonable to expect that Te Hiku Hauora is required to enrol any new
    admission not already enrolled, so when the contract ends new
    admissions may be refused enrolment.

    I live in the Far North and every aged care facility in the town
    closest to me has their own primary medical care facility except one - >> >and that facility has one under construction, presumably because ORAs
    are very hard to sell without hospital facilities included.
    I have family connections with the Far North, and have a couple of the
    books by Dr Smith of Rawene - he developed the use of 'nurse
    practitioners" to give some assistance to those unable to get to
    hospital - there were no private GPs in the area in those days.

    Effectively we have an expectation that when the private sector fails,
    it is up to government to fill the gap. Neither National or Labour
    were prepared to anticipate the failure of the private market in that
    area, but in hindsight it was highly likely. There have been some
    innovative approaches - one GP did some consultations using video
    services - he also publicised the problems in the area before I
    believe moving away. Shane Reti was a GP who for some time was a
    member of the Northland District Health Board; he rightly received
    praise for helping Northland with first meningococcal vaccine, and
    more well known later with Covid vaccines.

    You have pointed out that some of the Rest Home operators anticipated
    potential issues with health care, but not enough. That would not have
    been helped by the shrinking budget for other than acute services
    under National, and the independent Health Boards operating in their
    own silos had no brief to extend hospital services to cover GP work.

    It is debatable whether a little of the money spent on roads would
    have been better spent on extending hospital services. In the past
    teachers were encouraged to move to rural areas by using a commitment
    to service in lieu of training costs; that requires coordination at a
    national level, and the Health Dept has been fairly stretched with
    Covid and other demands.

    I went to a hospital in England some years ago - they had a problem
    that most GP lists were full, and they had a site where all wanting
    medical services who did not have a GP went and were triaged as to
    whether they could be served there when a doctor became available or
    whether they were sent to one of four hospitals. The reality is that
    there comes a stage with any occupation that is reliant on government
    for funding needs to be regarded as a public service. Integrating
    hospital and GP services may result in better integrated and more
    widely distributed services in Northland, with more travelling by air
    to larger hospitals.

    No word on whether any of the three interviewees were hired. Or if they were even suitable. What a staggering waste of money.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/03/500k-overseas-recruitment-ad-campaign-called-a-failure-after-just-3-people-were-interviewed.html
    Good on them for trying

    With the demand for medical personnel worldwide it was a waste of money. It would have made more sense to increase the pay of medical professionals so they don't keep pissing off to Australia. Another failure of your ever more useless government Rich!


    "We need more general practitioners. I think the fundamental core
    issue is we need to be training more home-grown New Zealand general practitioners," Dr Betty said.

    That is very true - but it takes about 10 years to get that having an
    effect - yet another failure of the previous National-led government.
    There will likely be a sufficient change in 4 years time when if
    National may be elected they can make the same mistake again . . .

    Labour has had five fucking years to do something about it Rich. Time you faced up to that fact and the fact Labour has frittered that time away on stupid and senseless policies rather than addressing the shortage. Hell Dr. Do Little denied we had a
    staffing problem in health for most of that time! Time you faced up to those facts Rich!


    Meanwhile, the structure in NOrthland needs to change - time the
    hospital system employed GPs - not to compete with private GPS, but to supplement them.

    Some truth from you once in your pointless and useless posting history. Well done Rich...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Crash@21:1/5 to All on Fri Mar 10 11:03:33 2023
    On Fri, 10 Mar 2023 05:47:39 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 9 Mar 2023 01:37:46 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Thursday, 9 March 2023 at 16:38:32 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
    On Thu, 09 Mar 2023 11:27:00 +1300, Crash <nog...@dontbother.invalid>
    wrote:
    On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 23:19:18 -0800 (PST), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    It is what you get when you put unsuitable, incompetent people such as Angry little Andy at the controls (Verrall appears to be no better). Like the rest of his mob, he seems to think any problem will go away if you throw enough money, consultants
    and spin doctors at it. Then he's scratching his head as the health outcomes get worse the more money he throws at it.

    "total systemic failure":
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/03/auckland-health-workers-say-they-re-screwed-following-emergency-department-overflow.html

    At least with a unified national health delivery system having
    replaced the ridiculous DHB structure, there is an opportunity to
    rationalise front-line healthcare services without the overhead of 20
    fiefdoms.

    This will take time. It is too soon to judge Verrall, but at least
    she has medical experience. However she is shackled by Labour and
    their collective inexperience in holding senior Government leaders to
    account of performance objectives.

    Northland rest home has *no* GP to call on:
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northland-age/news/kaitaias-gp-crisis-deepens-as-medical-practice-pulls-out-of-towns-only-rest-home/26J3LCOC5BEDZB7BX6XEXMFTJY/

    Northland has just 4 Hospitals - Whangarei (90 minutes drive for me),
    Kaitaia, Rawene and Kawakawa (30 minutes drive). Whangarei and
    Kaitaia have public access EDs, Kawakawa has an ED only accessible by
    ambulance and Rawene has no ED.

    I am astonished that such Rest Homes are allowed to operate with out
    sourced medical care. At least they have a nearby hospital. It is
    reasonable to expect that Te Hiku Hauora is required to enrol any new
    admission not already enrolled, so when the contract ends new
    admissions may be refused enrolment.

    I live in the Far North and every aged care facility in the town
    closest to me has their own primary medical care facility except one -
    and that facility has one under construction, presumably because ORAs
    are very hard to sell without hospital facilities included.
    I have family connections with the Far North, and have a couple of the
    books by Dr Smith of Rawene - he developed the use of 'nurse
    practitioners" to give some assistance to those unable to get to
    hospital - there were no private GPs in the area in those days.

    Effectively we have an expectation that when the private sector fails,
    it is up to government to fill the gap. Neither National or Labour
    were prepared to anticipate the failure of the private market in that
    area, but in hindsight it was highly likely. There have been some
    innovative approaches - one GP did some consultations using video
    services - he also publicised the problems in the area before I
    believe moving away. Shane Reti was a GP who for some time was a
    member of the Northland District Health Board; he rightly received
    praise for helping Northland with first meningococcal vaccine, and
    more well known later with Covid vaccines.

    You have pointed out that some of the Rest Home operators anticipated
    potential issues with health care, but not enough. That would not have
    been helped by the shrinking budget for other than acute services
    under National, and the independent Health Boards operating in their
    own silos had no brief to extend hospital services to cover GP work.

    It is debatable whether a little of the money spent on roads would
    have been better spent on extending hospital services. In the past
    teachers were encouraged to move to rural areas by using a commitment
    to service in lieu of training costs; that requires coordination at a
    national level, and the Health Dept has been fairly stretched with
    Covid and other demands.

    I went to a hospital in England some years ago - they had a problem
    that most GP lists were full, and they had a site where all wanting
    medical services who did not have a GP went and were triaged as to
    whether they could be served there when a doctor became available or
    whether they were sent to one of four hospitals. The reality is that
    there comes a stage with any occupation that is reliant on government
    for funding needs to be regarded as a public service. Integrating
    hospital and GP services may result in better integrated and more
    widely distributed services in Northland, with more travelling by air
    to larger hospitals.

    No word on whether any of the three interviewees were hired. Or if they were even suitable. What a staggering waste of money.
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/03/500k-overseas-recruitment-ad-campaign-called-a-failure-after-just-3-people-were-interviewed.html

    Good on them for trying

    "We need more general practitioners. I think the fundamental core
    issue is we need to be training more home-grown New Zealand general >practitioners," Dr Betty said.

    That is very true - but it takes about 10 years to get that having an
    effect - yet another failure of the previous National-led government.
    There will likely be a sufficient change in 4 years time when if
    National may be elected they can make the same mistake again . . .

    Meanwhile, the structure in NOrthland needs to change - time the
    hospital system employed GPs - not to compete with private GPS, but to >supplement them.

    If the GP-clinics cannot find staff then neither will hospitals.
    Health NZ could conceivably recruit overseas but the newshub article
    clearly indicates how difficult this is to achieve.

    I accept that training more locals is potentially a solution but we
    would need to ensure we get the payback by bonding them to work in NZ
    after graduation rather than taking off to lucrative entry-level
    medical professional jobs overseas. It is bad enough getting good
    people to go through 6 years of training, tacking on a requirement to
    stay in NZ for a bonded period of, say, 5 years just adds to the
    burden.


    --
    Crash McBash

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to All on Sun Mar 12 10:53:43 2023
    On Fri, 10 Mar 2023 11:03:33 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
    wrote:

    On Fri, 10 Mar 2023 05:47:39 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 9 Mar 2023 01:37:46 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Thursday, 9 March 2023 at 16:38:32 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
    On Thu, 09 Mar 2023 11:27:00 +1300, Crash <nog...@dontbother.invalid>
    wrote:
    On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 23:19:18 -0800 (PST), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    It is what you get when you put unsuitable, incompetent people such as Angry little Andy at the controls (Verrall appears to be no better). Like the rest of his mob, he seems to think any problem will go away if you throw enough money, consultants
    and spin doctors at it. Then he's scratching his head as the health outcomes get worse the more money he throws at it.

    "total systemic failure":
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/03/auckland-health-workers-say-they-re-screwed-following-emergency-department-overflow.html

    At least with a unified national health delivery system having
    replaced the ridiculous DHB structure, there is an opportunity to
    rationalise front-line healthcare services without the overhead of 20 >>>> >fiefdoms.

    This will take time. It is too soon to judge Verrall, but at least
    she has medical experience. However she is shackled by Labour and
    their collective inexperience in holding senior Government leaders to >>>> >account of performance objectives.

    Northland rest home has *no* GP to call on:
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northland-age/news/kaitaias-gp-crisis-deepens-as-medical-practice-pulls-out-of-towns-only-rest-home/26J3LCOC5BEDZB7BX6XEXMFTJY/

    Northland has just 4 Hospitals - Whangarei (90 minutes drive for me), >>>> >Kaitaia, Rawene and Kawakawa (30 minutes drive). Whangarei and
    Kaitaia have public access EDs, Kawakawa has an ED only accessible by >>>> >ambulance and Rawene has no ED.

    I am astonished that such Rest Homes are allowed to operate with out
    sourced medical care. At least they have a nearby hospital. It is
    reasonable to expect that Te Hiku Hauora is required to enrol any new >>>> >admission not already enrolled, so when the contract ends new
    admissions may be refused enrolment.

    I live in the Far North and every aged care facility in the town
    closest to me has their own primary medical care facility except one - >>>> >and that facility has one under construction, presumably because ORAs >>>> >are very hard to sell without hospital facilities included.
    I have family connections with the Far North, and have a couple of the >>>> books by Dr Smith of Rawene - he developed the use of 'nurse
    practitioners" to give some assistance to those unable to get to
    hospital - there were no private GPs in the area in those days.

    Effectively we have an expectation that when the private sector fails, >>>> it is up to government to fill the gap. Neither National or Labour
    were prepared to anticipate the failure of the private market in that
    area, but in hindsight it was highly likely. There have been some
    innovative approaches - one GP did some consultations using video
    services - he also publicised the problems in the area before I
    believe moving away. Shane Reti was a GP who for some time was a
    member of the Northland District Health Board; he rightly received
    praise for helping Northland with first meningococcal vaccine, and
    more well known later with Covid vaccines.

    You have pointed out that some of the Rest Home operators anticipated
    potential issues with health care, but not enough. That would not have >>>> been helped by the shrinking budget for other than acute services
    under National, and the independent Health Boards operating in their
    own silos had no brief to extend hospital services to cover GP work.

    It is debatable whether a little of the money spent on roads would
    have been better spent on extending hospital services. In the past
    teachers were encouraged to move to rural areas by using a commitment
    to service in lieu of training costs; that requires coordination at a
    national level, and the Health Dept has been fairly stretched with
    Covid and other demands.

    I went to a hospital in England some years ago - they had a problem
    that most GP lists were full, and they had a site where all wanting
    medical services who did not have a GP went and were triaged as to
    whether they could be served there when a doctor became available or
    whether they were sent to one of four hospitals. The reality is that
    there comes a stage with any occupation that is reliant on government
    for funding needs to be regarded as a public service. Integrating
    hospital and GP services may result in better integrated and more
    widely distributed services in Northland, with more travelling by air
    to larger hospitals.

    No word on whether any of the three interviewees were hired. Or if they were even suitable. What a staggering waste of money.
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/03/500k-overseas-recruitment-ad-campaign-called-a-failure-after-just-3-people-were-interviewed.html

    Good on them for trying

    "We need more general practitioners. I think the fundamental core
    issue is we need to be training more home-grown New Zealand general >>practitioners," Dr Betty said.

    That is very true - but it takes about 10 years to get that having an >>effect - yet another failure of the previous National-led government.
    There will likely be a sufficient change in 4 years time when if
    National may be elected they can make the same mistake again . . .

    Meanwhile, the structure in NOrthland needs to change - time the
    hospital system employed GPs - not to compete with private GPS, but to >>supplement them.

    If the GP-clinics cannot find staff then neither will hospitals.
    Health NZ could conceivably recruit overseas but the newshub article
    clearly indicates how difficult this is to achieve.

    I accept that training more locals is potentially a solution but we
    would need to ensure we get the payback by bonding them to work in NZ
    after graduation rather than taking off to lucrative entry-level
    medical professional jobs overseas. It is bad enough getting good
    people to go through 6 years of training, tacking on a requirement to
    stay in NZ for a bonded period of, say, 5 years just adds to the
    burden.
    Indeed it would but that would be a choice the students could make -
    we have done it before to ensure that there are adequate services such
    as schools in rural communities; why not other professions? Certainly
    many wouyd rather accept the debt for more flexibility - that is how a competitive market works.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From JohnO@21:1/5 to JohnO on Tue Mar 14 14:13:30 2023
    On Wednesday, 8 March 2023 at 20:19:19 UTC+13, JohnO wrote:
    It is what you get when you put unsuitable, incompetent people such as Angry little Andy at the controls (Verrall appears to be no better). Like the rest of his mob, he seems to think any problem will go away if you throw enough money, consultants and
    spin doctors at it. Then he's scratching his head as the health outcomes get worse the more money he throws at it.

    "total systemic failure": https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/03/auckland-health-workers-say-they-re-screwed-following-emergency-department-overflow.html

    Northland rest home has *no* GP to call on: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northland-age/news/kaitaias-gp-crisis-deepens-as-medical-practice-pulls-out-of-towns-only-rest-home/26J3LCOC5BEDZB7BX6XEXMFTJY/

    Health system falling apart in Christchurch https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/131487229/christchurch-hospital-slashes-surgeries-as-anaesthetic-technicians-quit-bullying-toxic-department-in-droves?cx_testId=12&cx_testVariant=cx_1&cx_artPos=4#cxrecs_s

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Bowes@21:1/5 to JohnO on Tue Mar 14 15:19:45 2023
    On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 10:13:32 AM UTC+13, JohnO wrote:
    On Wednesday, 8 March 2023 at 20:19:19 UTC+13, JohnO wrote:
    It is what you get when you put unsuitable, incompetent people such as Angry little Andy at the controls (Verrall appears to be no better). Like the rest of his mob, he seems to think any problem will go away if you throw enough money, consultants
    and spin doctors at it. Then he's scratching his head as the health outcomes get worse the more money he throws at it.

    "total systemic failure": https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/03/auckland-health-workers-say-they-re-screwed-following-emergency-department-overflow.html

    Northland rest home has *no* GP to call on: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northland-age/news/kaitaias-gp-crisis-deepens-as-medical-practice-pulls-out-of-towns-only-rest-home/26J3LCOC5BEDZB7BX6XEXMFTJY/
    Health system falling apart in Christchurch https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/131487229/christchurch-hospital-slashes-surgeries-as-anaesthetic-technicians-quit-bullying-toxic-department-in-droves?cx_testId=12&cx_testVariant=cx_1&cx_artPos=4#cxrecs_s

    The problem is poor wee Richie is bringing all these disasters for Labour into existence. It's his over positive negativity along with that of his useless Labour government that causes it all...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)