https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300809224/cyclone-gabrielle-scepticism-is-a-sting-in-covids-tail
This is a good article. It has some points in it which asks the question >where we are as a country?
Yes, the slow movment and stalling helped along with the urgent warning did >not help.
To me a dose of history would have been valuable to help people understand. >Like mud slides, more water than you thought possible, and faster than >possible.What past event are you referring to, Gordon? Most people had
One scource of thruth, the weather service did the heavy lifting but unless >you went searching for some additional information the main stream news was >rather vauge.Agreed, but free speech is important to most of us - how do you think
Thay had plotted the Gaberille's path 7 days before it arrived at Auckland. >It was accurate. What was not well enough communicated was the dates on the >path of the map. The one in main stream media had the dates in very small >print.As described in the article that I quoted from above, there is some
The delivery of the warning was some what hyped up. Calm clear facts were >needed.
The cyclone, is weather and as the saying goes, the forecast is right in
what will happen, but the timing might be way out.
So how much was the public's faith in the message as a result of the Covid >response and the facts which have resulted since.
On 18 Feb 2023 20:57:35 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300809224/cyclone-gabrielle-scepticism-is-a-sting-in-covids-tail
This is a good article. It has some points in it which asks the question >>where we are as a country?
Yes, the slow movment and stalling helped along with the urgent warning did >>not help.
The cyclone did not move slowly, just erratically, which made its path >difficult to predict - well covered in the article:
''Cyclones are difficult to track with precision. Parts of Auckland
were not badly hit on Monday because the system slowed over Coromandel
and north Auckland before it bounced east.
Like the pandemic, where crude scenario modelling was mistaken for >prediction, scientific uncertainty about the cyclone’s exact path was >difficult to communicate.
The messengers of that uncertainty – weather forecasters and civil
defence officials, via the mainstream media – were either criticised
for their inexactitude or accused of fearmongering, even though they
were broadly correct.
It was clear on Monday morning that, even if it wouldn’t directly hit
central Auckland, the cyclone would not apologetically turn around and
slink home to the tropics in disgrace. It was going to hit somewhere
in the eastern North Island, and it would do so viciously, including
in places that contained schools and other public buildings.''
Some people in Northland apparently listened to ZB - instead of
hearing the warnings on Radio NZ they heard arguments about whether
Schools in Auckland should have been closed; with references to
Auckland Grammar who put political ideology ahead of pupil safety . .
Perhaps we need to make it a requirement that National safety notices
(from say NEMA) be required to be transmitted by all radio stations
and TV Channels. How we get warning notices out tot he public clearly
cannot rely on shock-jock random radio announcers that happen to be on
duty - especially if they are the likes of the ZB idiots.
What past event are you referring to, Gordon? Most people had
To me a dose of history would have been valuable to help people understand. >>Like mud slides, more water than you thought possible, and faster than >>possible.
forgotten flooding from only a few years ago, and Hoskins and Hawkesby
are famous for never being convinced of any truths they do not like.
One scource of thruth, the weather service did the heavy lifting but unless >>you went searching for some additional information the main stream news was >>rather vauge.Agreed, but free speech is important to most of us - how do you think
the system could be improved?
As described in the article that I quoted from above, there is some >uncertainty in the weather forecasts - any uncertainty is expoloited
Thay had plotted the Gaberille's path 7 days before it arrived at Auckland. >>It was accurate. What was not well enough communicated was the dates on the >>path of the map. The one in main stream media had the dates in very small >>print.
by those that do not want to believe - and had the forecasts not
proven correct we would never believe any forecasts again . . .
It is the duty of opposition politicians to hold the government to account - that is how our democracy works. To suggest that in so doing they are "attacking" the government is childish and naive.
The delivery of the warning was some what hyped up. Calm clear facts were >>needed.
That is what people got on RNZ - but it is in the nature of commercial >broadcasters to hype some things up and provide free interpretation -
you sometimes get the value of advice that you have paid for . . .
The cyclone, is weather and as the saying goes, the forecast is right in >>what will happen, but the timing might be way out.
So how much was the public's faith in the message as a result of the Covid >>response and the facts which have resulted since.
I suspect that your conclusins are correct that some will be mor
inclined to beliwve scientific forcasts, but others will lie, distort
or attack minor variances between forecasts and actual events. I doubt
it will be changed by legislation - it is false rumour and
scare-mongering that is the problem, and that is not helped by
politicians using any excuse to attack government . . .
On 18 Feb 2023 20:57:35 GMT, Gordon <Gor...@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300809224/cyclone-gabrielle-scepticism-is-a-sting-in-covids-tail
This is a good article. It has some points in it which asks the question >where we are as a country?
Yes, the slow movment and stalling helped along with the urgent warning did >not help.The cyclone did not move slowly, just erratically, which made its path difficult to predict - well covered in the article:
''Cyclones are difficult to track with precision. Parts of Auckland
were not badly hit on Monday because the system slowed over Coromandel
and north Auckland before it bounced east.
Like the pandemic, where crude scenario modelling was mistaken for prediction, scientific uncertainty about the cyclone’s exact path was difficult to communicate.
The messengers of that uncertainty – weather forecasters and civil
defence officials, via the mainstream media – were either criticised
for their inexactitude or accused of fearmongering, even though they
were broadly correct.
It was clear on Monday morning that, even if it wouldn’t directly hit central Auckland, the cyclone would not apologetically turn around and
slink home to the tropics in disgrace. It was going to hit somewhere
in the eastern North Island, and it would do so viciously, including
in places that contained schools and other public buildings.''
Some people in Northland apparently listened to ZB - instead of
hearing the warnings on Radio NZ they heard arguments about whether
Schools in Auckland should have been closed; with references to
Auckland Grammar who put political ideology ahead of pupil safety . . Perhaps we need to make it a requirement that National safety notices
(from say NEMA) be required to be transmitted by all radio stations
and TV Channels. How we get warning notices out tot he public clearly
cannot rely on shock-jock random radio announcers that happen to be on
duty - especially if they are the likes of the ZB idiots.
To me a dose of history would have been valuable to help people understand. >Like mud slides, more water than you thought possible, and faster than >possible.What past event are you referring to, Gordon? Most people had
forgotten flooding from only a few years ago, and Hoskins and Hawkesby
are famous for never being convinced of any truths they do not like.
One scource of thruth, the weather service did the heavy lifting but unless >you went searching for some additional information the main stream news was >rather vauge.Agreed, but free speech is important to most of us - how do you think
the system could be improved?
Thay had plotted the Gaberille's path 7 days before it arrived at Auckland. >It was accurate. What was not well enough communicated was the dates on the >path of the map. The one in main stream media had the dates in very small >print.As described in the article that I quoted from above, there is some uncertainty in the weather forecasts - any uncertainty is expoloited
by those that do not want to believe - and had the forecasts not
proven correct we would never believe any forecasts again . . .
The delivery of the warning was some what hyped up. Calm clear facts were >needed.That is what people got on RNZ - but it is in the nature of commercial broadcasters to hype some things up and provide free interpretation -
you sometimes get the value of advice that you have paid for . . .
The cyclone, is weather and as the saying goes, the forecast is right in >what will happen, but the timing might be way out.
Or loopy left wing apologists like you posting bullshit in government defence Rich. If they can't take criticisim let them follow Ardern's lead and quit!So how much was the public's faith in the message as a result of the Covid >response and the facts which have resulted since.I suspect that your conclusins are correct that some will be mor
inclined to beliwve scientific forcasts, but others will lie, distort
or attack minor variances between forecasts and actual events. I doubt
it will be changed by legislation - it is false rumour and
scare-mongering that is the problem, and that is not helped by
politicians using any excuse to attack government . . .
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 18 Feb 2023 20:57:35 GMT, Gordon <Gor...@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300809224/cyclone-gabrielle-scepticism-is-a-sting-in-covids-tail
This is a good article. It has some points in it which asks the question >>where we are as a country?
Yes, the slow movment and stalling helped along with the urgent warning did
not help.
The cyclone did not move slowly, just erratically, which made its path >difficult to predict - well covered in the article:
''Cyclones are difficult to track with precision. Parts of Auckland
were not badly hit on Monday because the system slowed over Coromandel
and north Auckland before it bounced east.
Like the pandemic, where crude scenario modelling was mistaken for >prediction, scientific uncertainty about the cyclone’s exact path was >difficult to communicate.
The messengers of that uncertainty – weather forecasters and civil >defence officials, via the mainstream media – were either criticised
for their inexactitude or accused of fearmongering, even though they
were broadly correct.
It was clear on Monday morning that, even if it wouldn’t directly hit >central Auckland, the cyclone would not apologetically turn around and >slink home to the tropics in disgrace. It was going to hit somewhere
in the eastern North Island, and it would do so viciously, including
in places that contained schools and other public buildings.''
Some people in Northland apparently listened to ZB - instead of
hearing the warnings on Radio NZ they heard arguments about whether >Schools in Auckland should have been closed; with references to
Auckland Grammar who put political ideology ahead of pupil safety . . >Perhaps we need to make it a requirement that National safety notices >(from say NEMA) be required to be transmitted by all radio stations
and TV Channels. How we get warning notices out tot he public clearly >cannot rely on shock-jock random radio announcers that happen to be on >duty - especially if they are the likes of the ZB idiots.
What past event are you referring to, Gordon? Most people had
To me a dose of history would have been valuable to help people understand.
Like mud slides, more water than you thought possible, and faster than >>possible.
forgotten flooding from only a few years ago, and Hoskins and Hawkesby
are famous for never being convinced of any truths they do not like.
One scource of thruth, the weather service did the heavy lifting but unlessAgreed, but free speech is important to most of us - how do you think
you went searching for some additional information the main stream news was
rather vauge.
the system could be improved?
As described in the article that I quoted from above, there is some >uncertainty in the weather forecasts - any uncertainty is expoloited
Thay had plotted the Gaberille's path 7 days before it arrived at Auckland.
It was accurate. What was not well enough communicated was the dates on the
path of the map. The one in main stream media had the dates in very small >>print.
by those that do not want to believe - and had the forecasts not
proven correct we would never believe any forecasts again . . .
Bleating is one of the few things rich can accomplish successfully :)
The delivery of the warning was some what hyped up. Calm clear facts were >>needed.
That is what people got on RNZ - but it is in the nature of commercial >broadcasters to hype some things up and provide free interpretation -
you sometimes get the value of advice that you have paid for . . .
The cyclone, is weather and as the saying goes, the forecast is right in >>what will happen, but the timing might be way out.
So how much was the public's faith in the message as a result of the Covid >>response and the facts which have resulted since.
I suspect that your conclusins are correct that some will be morIt is the duty of opposition politicians to hold the government to account - that is how our democracy works. To suggest that in so doing they are "attacking" the government is childish and naive.
inclined to beliwve scientific forcasts, but others will lie, distort
or attack minor variances between forecasts and actual events. I doubt
it will be changed by legislation - it is false rumour and
scare-mongering that is the problem, and that is not helped by
politicians using any excuse to attack government . . .
Additionally, it is the right, and I believe duty, of all New Zealanders to do
the same thing. Democracy at work. Bleating about that is silliness personified.
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 18 Feb 2023 20:57:35 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:It is the duty of opposition politicians to hold the government to account - >that is how our democracy works. To suggest that in so doing they are >"attacking" the government is childish and naive.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300809224/cyclone-gabrielle-scepticism-is-a-sting-in-covids-tail
This is a good article. It has some points in it which asks the question >>>where we are as a country?
Yes, the slow movment and stalling helped along with the urgent warning did >>>not help.
The cyclone did not move slowly, just erratically, which made its path >>difficult to predict - well covered in the article:
''Cyclones are difficult to track with precision. Parts of Auckland
were not badly hit on Monday because the system slowed over Coromandel
and north Auckland before it bounced east.
Like the pandemic, where crude scenario modelling was mistaken for >>prediction, scientific uncertainty about the cyclone’s exact path was >>difficult to communicate.
The messengers of that uncertainty – weather forecasters and civil
defence officials, via the mainstream media – were either criticised
for their inexactitude or accused of fearmongering, even though they
were broadly correct.
It was clear on Monday morning that, even if it wouldn’t directly hit >>central Auckland, the cyclone would not apologetically turn around and >>slink home to the tropics in disgrace. It was going to hit somewhere
in the eastern North Island, and it would do so viciously, including
in places that contained schools and other public buildings.''
Some people in Northland apparently listened to ZB - instead of
hearing the warnings on Radio NZ they heard arguments about whether
Schools in Auckland should have been closed; with references to
Auckland Grammar who put political ideology ahead of pupil safety . . >>Perhaps we need to make it a requirement that National safety notices
(from say NEMA) be required to be transmitted by all radio stations
and TV Channels. How we get warning notices out tot he public clearly >>cannot rely on shock-jock random radio announcers that happen to be on
duty - especially if they are the likes of the ZB idiots.
What past event are you referring to, Gordon? Most people had
To me a dose of history would have been valuable to help people understand. >>>Like mud slides, more water than you thought possible, and faster than >>>possible.
forgotten flooding from only a few years ago, and Hoskins and Hawkesby
are famous for never being convinced of any truths they do not like.
One scource of thruth, the weather service did the heavy lifting but unless >>>you went searching for some additional information the main stream news was >>>rather vauge.Agreed, but free speech is important to most of us - how do you think
the system could be improved?
As described in the article that I quoted from above, there is some >>uncertainty in the weather forecasts - any uncertainty is expoloited
Thay had plotted the Gaberille's path 7 days before it arrived at Auckland. >>>It was accurate. What was not well enough communicated was the dates on the >>>path of the map. The one in main stream media had the dates in very small >>>print.
by those that do not want to believe - and had the forecasts not
proven correct we would never believe any forecasts again . . .
The delivery of the warning was some what hyped up. Calm clear facts were >>>needed.
That is what people got on RNZ - but it is in the nature of commercial >>broadcasters to hype some things up and provide free interpretation -
you sometimes get the value of advice that you have paid for . . .
The cyclone, is weather and as the saying goes, the forecast is right in >>>what will happen, but the timing might be way out.
So how much was the public's faith in the message as a result of the Covid >>>response and the facts which have resulted since.
I suspect that your conclusins are correct that some will be mor
inclined to beliwve scientific forcasts, but others will lie, distort
or attack minor variances between forecasts and actual events. I doubt
it will be changed by legislation - it is false rumour and
scare-mongering that is the problem, and that is not helped by
politicians using any excuse to attack government . . .
Additionally, it is the right, and I believe duty, of all New Zealanders to do >the same thing. Democracy at work. Bleating about that is silliness personified.
On Sun, 19 Feb 2023 04:23:57 -0000 (UTC), TonyInteresting, I had not considered that. You could be correct.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 18 Feb 2023 20:57:35 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:It is the duty of opposition politicians to hold the government to account - >>that is how our democracy works. To suggest that in so doing they are >>"attacking" the government is childish and naive.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300809224/cyclone-gabrielle-scepticism-is-a-sting-in-covids-tail
This is a good article. It has some points in it which asks the question >>>>where we are as a country?
Yes, the slow movment and stalling helped along with the urgent warning did >>>>not help.
The cyclone did not move slowly, just erratically, which made its path >>>difficult to predict - well covered in the article:
''Cyclones are difficult to track with precision. Parts of Auckland
were not badly hit on Monday because the system slowed over Coromandel >>>and north Auckland before it bounced east.
Like the pandemic, where crude scenario modelling was mistaken for >>>prediction, scientific uncertainty about the cyclone’s exact path was >>>difficult to communicate.
The messengers of that uncertainty – weather forecasters and civil >>>defence officials, via the mainstream media – were either criticised
for their inexactitude or accused of fearmongering, even though they
were broadly correct.
It was clear on Monday morning that, even if it wouldn’t directly hit >>>central Auckland, the cyclone would not apologetically turn around and >>>slink home to the tropics in disgrace. It was going to hit somewhere
in the eastern North Island, and it would do so viciously, including
in places that contained schools and other public buildings.''
Some people in Northland apparently listened to ZB - instead of
hearing the warnings on Radio NZ they heard arguments about whether >>>Schools in Auckland should have been closed; with references to
Auckland Grammar who put political ideology ahead of pupil safety . . >>>Perhaps we need to make it a requirement that National safety notices >>>(from say NEMA) be required to be transmitted by all radio stations
and TV Channels. How we get warning notices out tot he public clearly >>>cannot rely on shock-jock random radio announcers that happen to be on >>>duty - especially if they are the likes of the ZB idiots.
What past event are you referring to, Gordon? Most people had
To me a dose of history would have been valuable to help people understand. >>>>Like mud slides, more water than you thought possible, and faster than >>>>possible.
forgotten flooding from only a few years ago, and Hoskins and Hawkesby >>>are famous for never being convinced of any truths they do not like.
One scource of thruth, the weather service did the heavy lifting but unless >>>>you went searching for some additional information the main stream news was >>>>rather vauge.Agreed, but free speech is important to most of us - how do you think
the system could be improved?
As described in the article that I quoted from above, there is some >>>uncertainty in the weather forecasts - any uncertainty is expoloited
Thay had plotted the Gaberille's path 7 days before it arrived at Auckland. >>>>It was accurate. What was not well enough communicated was the dates on the >>>>path of the map. The one in main stream media had the dates in very small >>>>print.
by those that do not want to believe - and had the forecasts not
proven correct we would never believe any forecasts again . . .
The delivery of the warning was some what hyped up. Calm clear facts were >>>>needed.
That is what people got on RNZ - but it is in the nature of commercial >>>broadcasters to hype some things up and provide free interpretation -
you sometimes get the value of advice that you have paid for . . .
The cyclone, is weather and as the saying goes, the forecast is right in >>>>what will happen, but the timing might be way out.
So how much was the public's faith in the message as a result of the Covid >>>>response and the facts which have resulted since.
I suspect that your conclusins are correct that some will be mor
inclined to beliwve scientific forcasts, but others will lie, distort
or attack minor variances between forecasts and actual events. I doubt
it will be changed by legislation - it is false rumour and >>>scare-mongering that is the problem, and that is not helped by >>>politicians using any excuse to attack government . . .
Tony, Rich is totally befuddled when the government is either Labour
(as now) or Labour-lead. He cannot deal with this because his modus
operandi assumes Labour is the opposition where Labour is always right
and the National-lead government is not.
Yes that is clear.Additionally, it is the right, and I believe duty, of all New Zealanders to >>do
the same thing. Democracy at work. Bleating about that is silliness >>personified.
That is a nuance that has escaped Rich entirely.
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