https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/the-front-page-capital-gains-tax-experts-still-want-it-so-could-this-issue-rise-from-the-dead/H66T3JMYARA5XFGY2NNZBMIIAM/

They don't say what their arguments are, but that is not really
difficult. We do have Capital Gains Tax - for historical reasons, it
just does not apply to most property. That creates a distortion in
invesment patterns that we have seen over the last thirty to fifty
years.

First, if you inherit money that you do not need to improve your
standard of living, where will you be recommended to put it. CHances
are, the recommendation would be an investment property. Easy to buy,
easy to get an agent to look after it, it will soak up most rental
income in property maintenance and capital improvements so that you
will pay little tax while you own it, but it will give a whopping
capital gain when you do sell it - and that will be tax free if you
have set it up correctly and kept it long enough.

So what are the alternatives? Put it in the bank and see it lose real
value with inflation - and the interest will be taxable.

Invest it in shares. Easy to get wrong, dividends are taxable income;
takes a bit of effort to manage, and chances are it will not give an
overall return as good as property.

So what has this produced? Ever increasing property prices - there
are no controls on rents so they can go up to whatever you can get.
Developers will make sure there is always enough of a shortage of
rentals to keep them growing. And a shortage of shares - many of the
companies in NZ are now foreign owned. We do have a fair share on
entrepreneurs - they will have an idea, grow a company, and when it
gets big emough to give each of the original investors a few million
plus enough to live - they sell to an overseas buyer and put the money
into property!

Look at politicians - they average over 2 properties each - John Key
was a notable property investor, both in NZ and in Australia. The
only more sure-fire investment is to have enough spare cash to get in
on one of National's sell offs of state assets.

So what should we do? Give ourselves a fair investment market - don;t
have one type of property able to ensure that most profict emrges as non-taxable capital gains.

Who is against that? Why of course it is the property investors!

So that is the argument for equal tax treatment of all investments
(except homes occupied by the owner; most countries do not treat them
as investments).
Does anyone have any good reasons for retaining the current system?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:

On Tue, 07 Feb 2023 14:46:33 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/the-front-page-capital-gains-tax-experts-still-want-it-so-could-this-issue-rise-from-the-dead/H66T3JMYARA5XFGY2NNZBMIIAM/

They don't say what their arguments are, but that is not really
difficult. We do have Capital Gains Tax - for historical reasons, it
just does not apply to most property. That creates a distortion in >>invesment patterns that we have seen over the last thirty to fifty
years.

First, if you inherit money that you do not need to improve your
standard of living, where will you be recommended to put it. CHances
are, the recommendation would be an investment property. Easy to buy,
easy to get an agent to look after it, it will soak up most rental
income in property maintenance and capital improvements so that you
will pay little tax while you own it, but it will give a whopping
capital gain when you do sell it - and that will be tax free if you
have set it up correctly and kept it long enough.

So what are the alternatives? Put it in the bank and see it lose real
value with inflation - and the interest will be taxable.

Invest it in shares. Easy to get wrong, dividends are taxable income;
takes a bit of effort to manage, and chances are it will not give an >>overall return as good as property.

So what has this produced? Ever increasing property prices - there
are no controls on rents so they can go up to whatever you can get. >>Developers will make sure there is always enough of a shortage of
rentals to keep them growing. And a shortage of shares - many of the >>companies in NZ are now foreign owned. We do have a fair share on >>entrepreneurs - they will have an idea, grow a company, and when it
gets big emough to give each of the original investors a few million
plus enough to live - they sell to an overseas buyer and put the money
into property!

Look at politicians - they average over 2 properties each - John Key
was a notable property investor, both in NZ and in Australia. The
only more sure-fire investment is to have enough spare cash to get in
on one of National's sell offs of state assets.

So what should we do? Give ourselves a fair investment market - don;t
have one type of property able to ensure that most profict emrges as >>non-taxable capital gains.

Who is against that? Why of course it is the property investors!

So that is the argument for equal tax treatment of all investments
(except homes occupied by the owner; most countries do not treat them
as investments).
Does anyone have any good reasons for retaining the current system?

Yes - it is a solution in search of a problem. Most capital gains are
taxed now - counted as income if you are in business. It would hit
small investors hardest, hence the opposition to a CGT and even
Jacinda Ardern could see the political consequences of this. The tax
revenue it will generate is negligible.

Yes, it is a political aganda issue. Primarily based on envy.
Personally I don't care but I pity those that want to punish the thrifty.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 07 Feb 2023 14:46:33 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/the-front-page-capital-gains-tax-experts-still-want-it-so-could-this-issue-rise-from-the-dead/H66T3JMYARA5XFGY2NNZBMIIAM/

They don't say what their arguments are, but that is not really
difficult. We do have Capital Gains Tax - for historical reasons, it
just does not apply to most property. That creates a distortion in
invesment patterns that we have seen over the last thirty to fifty
years.

First, if you inherit money that you do not need to improve your
standard of living, where will you be recommended to put it. CHances
are, the recommendation would be an investment property. Easy to buy,
easy to get an agent to look after it, it will soak up most rental
income in property maintenance and capital improvements so that you
will pay little tax while you own it, but it will give a whopping
capital gain when you do sell it - and that will be tax free if you
have set it up correctly and kept it long enough.

So what are the alternatives? Put it in the bank and see it lose real
value with inflation - and the interest will be taxable.

Invest it in shares. Easy to get wrong, dividends are taxable income;
takes a bit of effort to manage, and chances are it will not give an
overall return as good as property.

So what has this produced? Ever increasing property prices - there
are no controls on rents so they can go up to whatever you can get. >Developers will make sure there is always enough of a shortage of
rentals to keep them growing. And a shortage of shares - many of the >companies in NZ are now foreign owned. We do have a fair share on >entrepreneurs - they will have an idea, grow a company, and when it
gets big emough to give each of the original investors a few million
plus enough to live - they sell to an overseas buyer and put the money
into property!

Look at politicians - they average over 2 properties each - John Key
was a notable property investor, both in NZ and in Australia. The
only more sure-fire investment is to have enough spare cash to get in
on one of National's sell offs of state assets.

So what should we do? Give ourselves a fair investment market - don;t
have one type of property able to ensure that most profict emrges as >non-taxable capital gains.

Who is against that? Why of course it is the property investors!

So that is the argument for equal tax treatment of all investments
(except homes occupied by the owner; most countries do not treat them
as investments).
Does anyone have any good reasons for retaining the current system?

Yes - it is a solution in search of a problem. Most capital gains are
taxed now - counted as income if you are in business. It would hit
small investors hardest, hence the opposition to a CGT and even
Jacinda Ardern could see the political consequences of this. The tax
revenue it will generate is negligible.


--
Crash McBash

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 3:56:36 PM UTC+13, Tony wrote:

Crash <nog...@dontbother.invalid> wrote:

On Tue, 07 Feb 2023 14:46:33 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/the-front-page-capital-gains-tax-experts-still-want-it-so-could-this-issue-rise-from-the-dead/H66T3JMYARA5XFGY2NNZBMIIAM/

They don't say what their arguments are, but that is not really >>difficult. We do have Capital Gains Tax - for historical reasons, it
just does not apply to most property. That creates a distortion in >>invesment patterns that we have seen over the last thirty to fifty
years.

First, if you inherit money that you do not need to improve your
standard of living, where will you be recommended to put it. CHances
are, the recommendation would be an investment property. Easy to buy, >>easy to get an agent to look after it, it will soak up most rental
income in property maintenance and capital improvements so that you
will pay little tax while you own it, but it will give a whopping
capital gain when you do sell it - and that will be tax free if you
have set it up correctly and kept it long enough.

So what are the alternatives? Put it in the bank and see it lose real >>value with inflation - and the interest will be taxable.

Invest it in shares. Easy to get wrong, dividends are taxable income; >>takes a bit of effort to manage, and chances are it will not give an >>overall return as good as property.

So what has this produced? Ever increasing property prices - there
are no controls on rents so they can go up to whatever you can get. >>Developers will make sure there is always enough of a shortage of
rentals to keep them growing. And a shortage of shares - many of the >>companies in NZ are now foreign owned. We do have a fair share on >>entrepreneurs - they will have an idea, grow a company, and when it
gets big emough to give each of the original investors a few million
plus enough to live - they sell to an overseas buyer and put the money >>into property!

Look at politicians - they average over 2 properties each - John Key
was a notable property investor, both in NZ and in Australia. The
only more sure-fire investment is to have enough spare cash to get in
on one of National's sell offs of state assets.

So what should we do? Give ourselves a fair investment market - don;t >>have one type of property able to ensure that most profict emrges as >>non-taxable capital gains.

Who is against that? Why of course it is the property investors!

So that is the argument for equal tax treatment of all investments >>(except homes occupied by the owner; most countries do not treat them
as investments).
Does anyone have any good reasons for retaining the current system?

Yes - it is a solution in search of a problem. Most capital gains are
taxed now - counted as income if you are in business. It would hit
small investors hardest, hence the opposition to a CGT and even
Jacinda Ardern could see the political consequences of this. The tax >revenue it will generate is negligible.

Yes, it is a political aganda issue. Primarily based on envy.
Personally I don't care but I pity those that want to punish the thrifty.

Pity is all losers like Rich deserve...

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 07 Feb 2023 15:53:33 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Feb 2023 14:46:33 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/the-front-page-capital-gains-tax-experts-still-want-it-so-could-this-issue-rise-from-the-dead/H66T3JMYARA5XFGY2NNZBMIIAM/

They don't say what their arguments are, but that is not really
difficult. We do have Capital Gains Tax - for historical reasons, it
just does not apply to most property. That creates a distortion in >>invesment patterns that we have seen over the last thirty to fifty
years.

First, if you inherit money that you do not need to improve your
standard of living, where will you be recommended to put it. CHances
are, the recommendation would be an investment property. Easy to buy,
easy to get an agent to look after it, it will soak up most rental
income in property maintenance and capital improvements so that you
will pay little tax while you own it, but it will give a whopping
capital gain when you do sell it - and that will be tax free if you
have set it up correctly and kept it long enough.

So what are the alternatives? Put it in the bank and see it lose real
value with inflation - and the interest will be taxable.

Invest it in shares. Easy to get wrong, dividends are taxable income;
takes a bit of effort to manage, and chances are it will not give an >>overall return as good as property.

So what has this produced? Ever increasing property prices - there
are no controls on rents so they can go up to whatever you can get. >>Developers will make sure there is always enough of a shortage of
rentals to keep them growing. And a shortage of shares - many of the >>companies in NZ are now foreign owned. We do have a fair share on >>entrepreneurs - they will have an idea, grow a company, and when it
gets big emough to give each of the original investors a few million
plus enough to live - they sell to an overseas buyer and put the money
into property!

Look at politicians - they average over 2 properties each - John Key
was a notable property investor, both in NZ and in Australia. The
only more sure-fire investment is to have enough spare cash to get in
on one of National's sell offs of state assets.

So what should we do? Give ourselves a fair investment market - don;t
have one type of property able to ensure that most profict emrges as >>non-taxable capital gains.

Who is against that? Why of course it is the property investors!

So that is the argument for equal tax treatment of all investments
(except homes occupied by the owner; most countries do not treat them
as investments).
Does anyone have any good reasons for retaining the current system?

Yes - it is a solution in search of a problem. Most capital gains are
taxed now - counted as income if you are in business. It would hit
small investors hardest, hence the opposition to a CGT and even
Jacinda Ardern could see the political consequences of this. The tax
revenue it will generate is negligible.

I find it interesting that arguments are made about "introducing a
CGT" when what we already have is most capital gains being included in
taxable income - the exception being some property; and you are
correct Crash that a building owned by a business will normally incur
tax on capital gains if sold. There is however some benefit to other
businesses in having consistency in our tax system. Certainly the
statement :
“In fact, New Zealand is the only OCED country without a comprehensive
capital gains tax,” Nightingale says.
is worth consideration.

Many do not realise that Kiwisaver funds pay tax (on behalf of
investors) on capital gains at the marginal rate for each individual.
If they had property assets in a portfolio they would pay tax on
capital gains when property is traded, regardless of time since
purchase. I suspect few such funds however have property investments - liquidity requirements would generally preclude that. So again we see
that 'professional' investment is expected to pay tax on all capital
gains - generally however only the wealthy have the capital to make
investments that attract capital gains; the funds where lower paid
workers are encouraged to save are effectively subject to higher tax
than those wealthy individuals who "do it themselves" - should we be
surprised that a tax regime which favours the wealthy over others is
strongly resisted as not being worth the trouble to fix . . .

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)