https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/131079029/damien-grant-under-arderns-guidance-we-became-the-nasty-team-of-5-million
"We are moving from a regime where historical wrongs are being
addressed, to a state where one ethnic class has an inherent and
enduring political status that is based on their ancestry. This cannot
end well."
And I am, sadly, of the opinion that it will not end well.
There are some clever people manufacturing claims, falsely, that co-governance is not new. That is a lie - co-governance is a carefully planned attempt to put most of the power into the hands of a minority.
Now is the time Mr Hipkins to put it away for good, but I suspect you
will not.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/131079029/damien-grant-under-arderns-guidance-we-became-the-nasty-team-of-5-millionBut one thing we can guarantee about so called co-governance is it's going to deliver Labour a thrashing later this year despite anything Hipkins does...
"We are moving from a regime where historical wrongs are being
addressed, to a state where one ethnic class has an inherent and
enduring political status that is based on their ancestry. This cannot
end well."
And I am, sadly, of the opinion that it will not end well.
There are some clever people manufacturing claims, falsely, that co-governance is not new. That is a lie - co-governance is a carefully planned attempt to put most of the power into the hands of a minority.
Now is the time Mr Hipkins to put it away for good, but I suspect you
will not.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/131079029/damien-grant-under-arderns-guidance-we-became-the-nasty-team-of-5-million
"We are moving from a regime where historical wrongs are being
addressed, to a state where one ethnic class has an inherent and
enduring political status that is based on their ancestry. This cannot
end well."
And I am, sadly, of the opinion that it will not end well.
There are some clever people manufacturing claims, falsely, that >co-governance is not new. That is a lie - co-governance is a carefully >planned attempt to put most of the power into the hands of a minority.
Now is the time Mr Hipkins to put it away for good, but I suspect you
will not.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/131079029/damien-grant-under-arderns-guidance-we-became-the-nasty-team-of-5-million
"We are moving from a regime where historical wrongs are being
addressed, to a state where one ethnic class has an inherent and
enduring political status that is based on their ancestry. This cannot
end well."
And I am, sadly, of the opinion that it will not end well.
There are some clever people manufacturing claims, falsely, that >co-governance is not new. That is a lie - co-governance is a carefully >planned attempt to put most of the power into the hands of a minority.
Now is the time Mr Hipkins to put it away for good, but I suspect you
will not.
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 10:31:00 +1300, Tony <LizandTony@orcon.net.nz>Finlayson has never spoken of co-governance. He supported a smal
wrote:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/131079029/damien-grant-under-arderns-guidance-we-became-the-nasty-team-of-5-million
"We are moving from a regime where historical wrongs are being
addressed, to a state where one ethnic class has an inherent and
enduring political status that is based on their ancestry. This cannot
end well."
And I am, sadly, of the opinion that it will not end well.
There are some clever people manufacturing claims, falsely, that >>co-governance is not new. That is a lie - co-governance is a carefully >>planned attempt to put most of the power into the hands of a minority.
Now is the time Mr Hipkins to put it away for good, but I suspect you
will not.
Did you read the article by Chris Finlayson? Getting other opinions
ans seeking consensus makes sense . . .
https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/131079029/damien-grant-under-arderns-guidance-we-became-the-nasty-team-of-5-millionIf Labor flukes it and gets in again all these canceled things will be
"We are moving from a regime where historical wrongs are being
addressed, to a state where one ethnic class has an inherent and
enduring political status that is based on their ancestry. This cannot
end well."
And I am, sadly, of the opinion that it will not end well.
There are some clever people manufacturing claims, falsely, that >co-governance is not new. That is a lie - co-governance is a carefully >planned attempt to put most of the power into the hands of a minority.
Now is the time Mr Hipkins to put it away for good, but I suspect you
will not.
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 14:00:33 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>and https://www.minterellison.co.nz/insights/co-governance-the-misunderstood-political-hot-potato-and-likely-election-dominator
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 10:31:00 +1300, Tony <LizandTony@orcon.net.nz>Finlayson has never spoken of co-governance. https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/chris-finlayson-co-governance-should-be-embraced-not-feared/
wrote:
"We are moving from a regime where historical wrongs are beinghttps://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/131079029/damien-grant-under-arderns-guidance-we-became-the-nasty-team-of-5-million
addressed, to a state where one ethnic class has an inherent and
enduring political status that is based on their ancestry. This cannot >>>end well."
And I am, sadly, of the opinion that it will not end well.
There are some clever people manufacturing claims, falsely, that >>>co-governance is not new. That is a lie - co-governance is a carefully >>>planned attempt to put most of the power into the hands of a minority. >>>Now is the time Mr Hipkins to put it away for good, but I suspect you >>>will not.
Did you read the article by Chris Finlayson? Getting other opinions
ans seeking consensus makes sense . . .
He supported a smal
lnumber of co-management matters.
But I see that you cannot adress the content of the article.
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 15:10:56 +1300, Tony <LizandTony@orcon.net.nz>No lie. Neither of them were referring to co-governance.
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 14:00:33 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:and >https://www.minterellison.co.nz/insights/co-governance-the-misunderstood-political-hot-potato-and-likely-election-dominator
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 10:31:00 +1300, Tony <LizandTony@orcon.net.nz>Finlayson has never spoken of co-governance. >https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/chris-finlayson-co-governance-should-be-embraced-not-feared/
wrote:
"We are moving from a regime where historical wrongs are being >>>>addressed, to a state where one ethnic class has an inherent and >>>>enduring political status that is based on their ancestry. This cannot >>>>end well."https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/131079029/damien-grant-under-arderns-guidance-we-became-the-nasty-team-of-5-million
And I am, sadly, of the opinion that it will not end well.
There are some clever people manufacturing claims, falsely, that >>>>co-governance is not new. That is a lie - co-governance is a carefully >>>>planned attempt to put most of the power into the hands of a minority. >>>>Now is the time Mr Hipkins to put it away for good, but I suspect you >>>>will not.
Did you read the article by Chris Finlayson? Getting other opinions
ans seeking consensus makes sense . . .
and there are probably others. Why lie when those two links were
posted very recently?
There is no such thing in our political environment as the "rabidHe supported a smal
lnumber of co-management matters.
But I see that you cannot adress the content of the article.
Why would I? It can be summed up by two words "We hounded"
The rabid right picked up on any discontent and regardless of whether
they agreed or not, they supported any and all hounding of government.
The "Libertarian" stance of Damien Grant is more about his very right
wing views on size of government - the changes to firearms laws were
largely supported by the National Party. Damien Grant is entitled to
his opinion, but those opinions are not shared by a large majority of
voters.
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 15:10:56 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz>Whereas the rabid left keeps pushing the same fucking lies!
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 14:00:33 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
and https://www.minterellison.co.nz/insights/co-governance-the-misunderstood-political-hot-potato-and-likely-election-dominatorOn Sun, 29 Jan 2023 10:31:00 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz>Finlayson has never spoken of co-governance. https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/chris-finlayson-co-governance-should-be-embraced-not-feared/
wrote:
"We are moving from a regime where historical wrongs are being >>>addressed, to a state where one ethnic class has an inherent and >>>enduring political status that is based on their ancestry. This cannot >>>end well."https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/131079029/damien-grant-under-arderns-guidance-we-became-the-nasty-team-of-5-million
And I am, sadly, of the opinion that it will not end well.
There are some clever people manufacturing claims, falsely, that >>>co-governance is not new. That is a lie - co-governance is a carefully >>>planned attempt to put most of the power into the hands of a minority. >>>Now is the time Mr Hipkins to put it away for good, but I suspect you >>>will not.
Did you read the article by Chris Finlayson? Getting other opinions
ans seeking consensus makes sense . . .
and there are probably others. Why lie when those two links were
posted very recently?
He supported a smalWhy would I? It can be summed up by two words "We hounded"
lnumber of co-management matters.
But I see that you cannot adress the content of the article.
The rabid right picked up on any discontent and regardless of whether
they agreed or not, they supported any and all hounding of government.
The "Libertarian" stance of Damien Grant is more about his very right
wing views on size of government - the changes to firearms laws were
largely supported by the National Party. Damien Grant is entitled to
his opinion, but those opinions are not shared by a large majority of
voters.
On Sunday, January 29, 2023 at 5:55:07 PM UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 15:10:56 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz>Whereas the rabid left keeps pushing the same fucking lies!
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 14:00:33 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com>https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/chris-finlayson-co-governance-should-be-embraced-not-feared/
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 10:31:00 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz>Finlayson has never spoken of co-governance.
wrote:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/131079029/damien-grant-under-arderns-guidance-we-became-the-nasty-team-of-5-million
"We are moving from a regime where historical wrongs are being
addressed, to a state where one ethnic class has an inherent and
enduring political status that is based on their ancestry. This cannot
end well."
And I am, sadly, of the opinion that it will not end well.
There are some clever people manufacturing claims, falsely, that
co-governance is not new. That is a lie - co-governance is a carefully
planned attempt to put most of the power into the hands of a minority.
Now is the time Mr Hipkins to put it away for good, but I suspect you
will not.
Did you read the article by Chris Finlayson? Getting other opinions
ans seeking consensus makes sense . . .
and
https://www.minterellison.co.nz/insights/co-governance-the-misunderstood-political-hot-potato-and-likely-election-dominator
and there are probably others. Why lie when those two links were
posted very recently?
He supported a smalWhy would I? It can be summed up by two words "We hounded"
lnumber of co-management matters.
But I see that you cannot adress the content of the article.
The rabid right picked up on any discontent and regardless of whether
they agreed or not, they supported any and all hounding of government.
The "Libertarian" stance of Damien Grant is more about his very right
wing views on size of government - the changes to firearms laws were
largely supported by the National Party. Damien Grant is entitled to
his opinion, but those opinions are not shared by a large majority of
voters.
It may have escaped your notice Rich but finlayson has retired from politics. Pity you don't :)
On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 22:16:25 -0800 (PST), John Bowes
<bowesjohn02@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, January 29, 2023 at 5:55:07 PM UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 15:10:56 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz>Whereas the rabid left keeps pushing the same fucking lies!
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 14:00:33 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com>https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/chris-finlayson-co-governance-should-be-embraced-not-feared/
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 10:31:00 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz>Finlayson has never spoken of co-governance.
wrote:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/131079029/damien-grant-under-arderns-guidance-we-became-the-nasty-team-of-5-million
"We are moving from a regime where historical wrongs are being
addressed, to a state where one ethnic class has an inherent and
enduring political status that is based on their ancestry. This cannot >>> >>>end well."
And I am, sadly, of the opinion that it will not end well.
There are some clever people manufacturing claims, falsely, that
co-governance is not new. That is a lie - co-governance is a carefully >>> >>>planned attempt to put most of the power into the hands of a minority. >>> >>>Now is the time Mr Hipkins to put it away for good, but I suspect you >>> >>>will not.
Did you read the article by Chris Finlayson? Getting other opinions
ans seeking consensus makes sense . . .
and
https://www.minterellison.co.nz/insights/co-governance-the-misunderstood-political-hot-potato-and-likely-election-dominator
and there are probably others. Why lie when those two links were
posted very recently?
He supported a smalWhy would I? It can be summed up by two words "We hounded"
lnumber of co-management matters.
But I see that you cannot adress the content of the article.
The rabid right picked up on any discontent and regardless of whether
they agreed or not, they supported any and all hounding of government.
The "Libertarian" stance of Damien Grant is more about his very right
wing views on size of government - the changes to firearms laws were
largely supported by the National Party. Damien Grant is entitled to
his opinion, but those opinions are not shared by a large majority of
voters.
It may have escaped your notice Rich but finlayson has retired from politics. Pity you don't :)
According to Tony there is no such thing in our political environment
as the "rabid right"; and obviously that means there is no "rabid
left".
Again then according to Tony, your comments are stupid and
unnecessarily rude., and once more you trotally fail to address the
content - it is an illness.
Tony is of course wrong about our not having extremists - Tony
possibly regards the "Victory for Freedom" people that escalated
violence at the Parliamentary protests as being just normal people
like himself . . .
You need treatment.
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 19:56:00 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>Thank you Crash - I quite agree - the assertion by Tony was nonsense;
wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 22:16:25 -0800 (PST), John Bowes >><bowesjohn02@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, January 29, 2023 at 5:55:07 PM UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 15:10:56 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz>Whereas the rabid left keeps pushing the same fucking lies!
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 14:00:33 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com>https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/chris-finlayson-co-governance-should-be-embraced-not-feared/
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 10:31:00 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz>Finlayson has never spoken of co-governance.
wrote:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/131079029/damien-grant-under-arderns-guidance-we-became-the-nasty-team-of-5-million
"We are moving from a regime where historical wrongs are being
addressed, to a state where one ethnic class has an inherent and
enduring political status that is based on their ancestry. This cannot >>>> >>>end well."
And I am, sadly, of the opinion that it will not end well.
There are some clever people manufacturing claims, falsely, that
co-governance is not new. That is a lie - co-governance is a carefully >>>> >>>planned attempt to put most of the power into the hands of a minority. >>>> >>>Now is the time Mr Hipkins to put it away for good, but I suspect you >>>> >>>will not.
Did you read the article by Chris Finlayson? Getting other opinions
ans seeking consensus makes sense . . .
and
https://www.minterellison.co.nz/insights/co-governance-the-misunderstood-political-hot-potato-and-likely-election-dominator
and there are probably others. Why lie when those two links were
posted very recently?
He supported a smalWhy would I? It can be summed up by two words "We hounded"
lnumber of co-management matters.
But I see that you cannot adress the content of the article.
The rabid right picked up on any discontent and regardless of whether
they agreed or not, they supported any and all hounding of government. >>>> The "Libertarian" stance of Damien Grant is more about his very right
wing views on size of government - the changes to firearms laws were
largely supported by the National Party. Damien Grant is entitled to
his opinion, but those opinions are not shared by a large majority of
voters.
It may have escaped your notice Rich but finlayson has retired from politics. Pity you don't :)
According to Tony there is no such thing in our political environment
as the "rabid right"; and obviously that means there is no "rabid
left".
Are you sane? What insane logic - the presence of 'rabid left' or
'rabid right' does not have the opposite as a prerequisite. Both can
be present without the opposite. How can you expect to sustain
logical argument with nonsense logic like this?
Again then according to Tony, your comments are stupid and
unnecessarily rude., and once more you trotally fail to address the
content - it is an illness.
Tony is of course wrong about our not having extremists - Tony
possibly regards the "Victory for Freedom" people that escalated
violence at the Parliamentary protests as being just normal people
like himself . . .
You need treatment.
Some of Tony's arguments might be considered extreme, but at least
there is a logical basis for them. You on the other hand exhibit
total lack of logic as outlined above.
When you get into a debating hole where you have no logical
justification for your arguments, you fail to recognise the wisdom of
not digging any further, as you did in your post above. Your
continued justification of support for co-governance as defined in the
Water reforms legislation from a past National government is the
clearest example of your flawed logic.
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 20:22:06 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>My assertion was and is accurate. You keep talking about rabid or far
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 19:56:00 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:Thank you Crash - I quite agree - the assertion by Tony was nonsense;
On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 22:16:25 -0800 (PST), John Bowes >>><bowesjohn02@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, January 29, 2023 at 5:55:07 PM UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 15:10:56 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz>Whereas the rabid left keeps pushing the same fucking lies!
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 14:00:33 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> >>>>> >wrote:https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/chris-finlayson-co-governance-should-be-embraced-not-feared/
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 10:31:00 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz>Finlayson has never spoken of co-governance.
wrote:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/131079029/damien-grant-under-arderns-guidance-we-became-the-nasty-team-of-5-million
"We are moving from a regime where historical wrongs are being
addressed, to a state where one ethnic class has an inherent and
enduring political status that is based on their ancestry. This cannot >>>>> >>>end well."
And I am, sadly, of the opinion that it will not end well.
There are some clever people manufacturing claims, falsely, that
co-governance is not new. That is a lie - co-governance is a carefully >>>>> >>>planned attempt to put most of the power into the hands of a minority. >>>>> >>>Now is the time Mr Hipkins to put it away for good, but I suspect you >>>>> >>>will not.
Did you read the article by Chris Finlayson? Getting other opinions >>>>> >>ans seeking consensus makes sense . . .
and
https://www.minterellison.co.nz/insights/co-governance-the-misunderstood-political-hot-potato-and-likely-election-dominator
and there are probably others. Why lie when those two links were
posted very recently?
He supported a smalWhy would I? It can be summed up by two words "We hounded"
lnumber of co-management matters.
But I see that you cannot adress the content of the article.
The rabid right picked up on any discontent and regardless of whether >>>>> they agreed or not, they supported any and all hounding of government. >>>>> The "Libertarian" stance of Damien Grant is more about his very right >>>>> wing views on size of government - the changes to firearms laws were >>>>> largely supported by the National Party. Damien Grant is entitled to >>>>> his opinion, but those opinions are not shared by a large majority of >>>>> voters.
It may have escaped your notice Rich but finlayson has retired from politics. Pity you don't :)
According to Tony there is no such thing in our political environment
as the "rabid right"; and obviously that means there is no "rabid
left".
Are you sane? What insane logic - the presence of 'rabid left' or
'rabid right' does not have the opposite as a prerequisite. Both can
be present without the opposite. How can you expect to sustain
logical argument with nonsense logic like this?
of course there is a rabid right; and yes in the view of many there is
a rabid left - but currrently commentators regard the rabid right as
being more significant regarding mis - and disinformation, extreme
political statements, irrational assertions etc.
Don't you dare put words into my mouth you stupid little fart.
Again then according to Tony, your comments are stupid and
unnecessarily rude., and once more you trotally fail to address the >>>content - it is an illness.
Tony is of course wrong about our not having extremists - Tony
possibly regards the "Victory for Freedom" people that escalated
violence at the Parliamentary protests as being just normal people
like himself . . .
You need treatment.
For what? Do you not agree that some of the parliamentary protestors
were extreme?
Some of Tony's arguments might be considered extreme, but at least
there is a logical basis for them. You on the other hand exhibit
total lack of logic as outlined above.
When you get into a debating hole where you have no logical
justification for your arguments, you fail to recognise the wisdom of
not digging any further, as you did in your post above. Your
continued justification of support for co-governance as defined in the >>Water reforms legislation from a past National government is the
clearest example of your flawed logic.
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 23:33:09 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 20:22:06 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>wrote:My assertion was and is accurate. You keep talking about rabid or far
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 19:56:00 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:Thank you Crash - I quite agree - the assertion by Tony was nonsense;
On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 22:16:25 -0800 (PST), John Bowes >>>><bowesjohn02@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, January 29, 2023 at 5:55:07 PM UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 15:10:56 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz>Whereas the rabid left keeps pushing the same fucking lies!
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 14:00:33 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> >>>>>> >wrote:https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/chris-finlayson-co-governance-should-be-embraced-not-feared/
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 10:31:00 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz> >>>>>> >>wrote:Finlayson has never spoken of co-governance.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/131079029/damien-grant-under-arderns-guidance-we-became-the-nasty-team-of-5-million
"We are moving from a regime where historical wrongs are being
addressed, to a state where one ethnic class has an inherent and >>>>>> >>>enduring political status that is based on their ancestry. This cannot
end well."
And I am, sadly, of the opinion that it will not end well.
There are some clever people manufacturing claims, falsely, that >>>>>> >>>co-governance is not new. That is a lie - co-governance is a carefully
planned attempt to put most of the power into the hands of a minority.
Now is the time Mr Hipkins to put it away for good, but I suspect you >>>>>> >>>will not.
Did you read the article by Chris Finlayson? Getting other opinions >>>>>> >>ans seeking consensus makes sense . . .
and
https://www.minterellison.co.nz/insights/co-governance-the-misunderstood-political-hot-potato-and-likely-election-dominator
and there are probably others. Why lie when those two links were
posted very recently?
He supported a smalWhy would I? It can be summed up by two words "We hounded"
lnumber of co-management matters.
But I see that you cannot adress the content of the article.
The rabid right picked up on any discontent and regardless of whether >>>>>> they agreed or not, they supported any and all hounding of government. >>>>>> The "Libertarian" stance of Damien Grant is more about his very right >>>>>> wing views on size of government - the changes to firearms laws were >>>>>> largely supported by the National Party. Damien Grant is entitled to >>>>>> his opinion, but those opinions are not shared by a large majority of >>>>>> voters.
It may have escaped your notice Rich but finlayson has retired from politics. Pity you don't :)
According to Tony there is no such thing in our political environment >>>>as the "rabid right"; and obviously that means there is no "rabid >>>>left".
Are you sane? What insane logic - the presence of 'rabid left' or
'rabid right' does not have the opposite as a prerequisite. Both can
be present without the opposite. How can you expect to sustain
logical argument with nonsense logic like this?
of course there is a rabid right; and yes in the view of many there is
a rabid left - but currrently commentators regard the rabid right as
being more significant regarding mis - and disinformation, extreme >>political statements, irrational assertions etc.
right in our political parties and yet you have never (that is never
ever) provided any evidence.
To suggest that there is a rabid left is also not supported by
evidence.
In fact the word rabid is somewhat silly in the NZ environment.
You are ill, rude and illiterate.
Don't you dare put words into my mouth you stupid little fart.
Again then according to Tony, your comments are stupid and >>>>unnecessarily rude., and once more you trotally fail to address the >>>>content - it is an illness.
Tony is of course wrong about our not having extremists - Tony
possibly regards the "Victory for Freedom" people that escalated >>>>violence at the Parliamentary protests as being just normal people
like himself . . .
You need treatment.
For what? Do you not agree that some of the parliamentary protestors
were extreme?
Some of Tony's arguments might be considered extreme, but at least
there is a logical basis for them. You on the other hand exhibit
total lack of logic as outlined above.
When you get into a debating hole where you have no logical
justification for your arguments, you fail to recognise the wisdom of
not digging any further, as you did in your post above. Your
continued justification of support for co-governance as defined in the >>>Water reforms legislation from a past National government is the
clearest example of your flawed logic.
On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 22:16:25 -0800 (PST), John Bowes
<bowes...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, January 29, 2023 at 5:55:07 PM UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:According to Tony there is no such thing in our political environment
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 15:10:56 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz>Whereas the rabid left keeps pushing the same fucking lies!
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 14:00:33 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com>https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/chris-finlayson-co-governance-should-be-embraced-not-feared/
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 10:31:00 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz>Finlayson has never spoken of co-governance.
wrote:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/131079029/damien-grant-under-arderns-guidance-we-became-the-nasty-team-of-5-million
"We are moving from a regime where historical wrongs are being
addressed, to a state where one ethnic class has an inherent and
enduring political status that is based on their ancestry. This cannot >> >>>end well."
And I am, sadly, of the opinion that it will not end well.
There are some clever people manufacturing claims, falsely, that
co-governance is not new. That is a lie - co-governance is a carefully >> >>>planned attempt to put most of the power into the hands of a minority. >> >>>Now is the time Mr Hipkins to put it away for good, but I suspect you >> >>>will not.
Did you read the article by Chris Finlayson? Getting other opinions
ans seeking consensus makes sense . . .
and
https://www.minterellison.co.nz/insights/co-governance-the-misunderstood-political-hot-potato-and-likely-election-dominator
and there are probably others. Why lie when those two links were
posted very recently?
He supported a smalWhy would I? It can be summed up by two words "We hounded"
lnumber of co-management matters.
But I see that you cannot adress the content of the article.
The rabid right picked up on any discontent and regardless of whether
they agreed or not, they supported any and all hounding of government.
The "Libertarian" stance of Damien Grant is more about his very right
wing views on size of government - the changes to firearms laws were
largely supported by the National Party. Damien Grant is entitled to
his opinion, but those opinions are not shared by a large majority of
voters.
It may have escaped your notice Rich but finlayson has retired from politics. Pity you don't :)
as the "rabid right"; and obviously that means there is no "rabid
left". Again then according to Tony, your comments are stupid and unnecessarily rude., and once more you trotally fail to address the
content - it is an illness.
Tony is of course wrong about our not having extremists - Tony
possibly regards the "Victory for Freedom" people that escalated
violence at the Parliamentary protests as being just normal people
like himself . . .
You need treatment.
On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 07:37:50 +1300, Tony <LizandTony@orcon.net.nz>Yes you did you liar. I choose not to answer something which was not a question.
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 23:33:09 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 20:22:06 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>wrote:My assertion was and is accurate. You keep talking about rabid or far
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 19:56:00 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>wrote:Thank you Crash - I quite agree - the assertion by Tony was nonsense;
On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 22:16:25 -0800 (PST), John Bowes >>>>><bowesjohn02@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, January 29, 2023 at 5:55:07 PM UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote: >>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 15:10:56 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz> >>>>>>> wrote:
Whereas the rabid left keeps pushing the same fucking lies!
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 14:00:33 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> >>>>>>> >wrote:https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/chris-finlayson-co-governance-should-be-embraced-not-feared/
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 10:31:00 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz> >>>>>>> >>wrote:Finlayson has never spoken of co-governance.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/131079029/damien-grant-under-arderns-guidance-we-became-the-nasty-team-of-5-million
"We are moving from a regime where historical wrongs are being >>>>>>> >>>addressed, to a state where one ethnic class has an inherent and >>>>>>> >>>enduring political status that is based on their ancestry. This cannot
end well."
And I am, sadly, of the opinion that it will not end well.
There are some clever people manufacturing claims, falsely, that >>>>>>> >>>co-governance is not new. That is a lie - co-governance is a carefully
planned attempt to put most of the power into the hands of a minority.
Now is the time Mr Hipkins to put it away for good, but I suspect you
will not.
Did you read the article by Chris Finlayson? Getting other opinions >>>>>>> >>ans seeking consensus makes sense . . .
and
https://www.minterellison.co.nz/insights/co-governance-the-misunderstood-political-hot-potato-and-likely-election-dominator
and there are probably others. Why lie when those two links were >>>>>>> posted very recently?
He supported a smalWhy would I? It can be summed up by two words "We hounded"
lnumber of co-management matters.
But I see that you cannot adress the content of the article.
The rabid right picked up on any discontent and regardless of whether >>>>>>> they agreed or not, they supported any and all hounding of government. >>>>>>> The "Libertarian" stance of Damien Grant is more about his very right >>>>>>> wing views on size of government - the changes to firearms laws were >>>>>>> largely supported by the National Party. Damien Grant is entitled to >>>>>>> his opinion, but those opinions are not shared by a large majority of >>>>>>> voters.
It may have escaped your notice Rich but finlayson has retired from politics. Pity you don't :)
According to Tony there is no such thing in our political environment >>>>>as the "rabid right"; and obviously that means there is no "rabid >>>>>left".
Are you sane? What insane logic - the presence of 'rabid left' or >>>>'rabid right' does not have the opposite as a prerequisite. Both can >>>>be present without the opposite. How can you expect to sustain
logical argument with nonsense logic like this?
of course there is a rabid right; and yes in the view of many there is
a rabid left - but currrently commentators regard the rabid right as >>>being more significant regarding mis - and disinformation, extreme >>>political statements, irrational assertions etc.
right in our political parties and yet you have never (that is never
ever) provided any evidence.
To suggest that there is a rabid left is also not supported by
evidence.
In fact the word rabid is somewhat silly in the NZ environment.
You are ill, rude and illiterate.
Don't you dare put words into my mouth you stupid little fart.
Again then according to Tony, your comments are stupid and >>>>>unnecessarily rude., and once more you trotally fail to address the >>>>>content - it is an illness.
Tony is of course wrong about our not having extremists - Tony >>>>>possibly regards the "Victory for Freedom" people that escalated >>>>>violence at the Parliamentary protests as being just normal people >>>>>like himself . . .
Mere speculation, Tony; I carefully did not presume to put words in
your mouth - but I note that you were not prepared to either confirm
or deny the possibility.
still not shown otherwise. The treaty does not mention it and does notYou need treatment.
For what? Do you not agree that some of the parliamentary protestors
were extreme?
Some of Tony's arguments might be considered extreme, but at least >>>>there is a logical basis for them. You on the other hand exhibit
total lack of logic as outlined above.
When you get into a debating hole where you have no logical >>>>justification for your arguments, you fail to recognise the wisdom of >>>>not digging any further, as you did in your post above. Your
continued justification of support for co-governance as defined in the >>>>Water reforms legislation from a past National government is the >>>>clearest example of your flawed logic.
I happen to think that the arrangements brokered by the Crown under
both Michael Cullen and Chris Finlayson were good examles ofthe value
of meeting treaty obligations through sharing a right and obligation
to act in the interests of all of New Zealand through co-governance. Irrelevant - neither of them talked about co-governmance and you have
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 20:22:06 +1300, Crash <nog...@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 19:56:00 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 22:16:25 -0800 (PST), John Bowes
<bowes...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, January 29, 2023 at 5:55:07 PM UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 15:10:56 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz>Whereas the rabid left keeps pushing the same fucking lies!
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 14:00:33 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> >>>> >wrote:https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/chris-finlayson-co-governance-should-be-embraced-not-feared/
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 10:31:00 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz>Finlayson has never spoken of co-governance.
wrote:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/131079029/damien-grant-under-arderns-guidance-we-became-the-nasty-team-of-5-million
"We are moving from a regime where historical wrongs are being
addressed, to a state where one ethnic class has an inherent and
enduring political status that is based on their ancestry. This cannot
end well."
And I am, sadly, of the opinion that it will not end well.
There are some clever people manufacturing claims, falsely, that
co-governance is not new. That is a lie - co-governance is a carefully
planned attempt to put most of the power into the hands of a minority.
Now is the time Mr Hipkins to put it away for good, but I suspect you >>>> >>>will not.
Did you read the article by Chris Finlayson? Getting other opinions >>>> >>ans seeking consensus makes sense . . .
and
https://www.minterellison.co.nz/insights/co-governance-the-misunderstood-political-hot-potato-and-likely-election-dominator
and there are probably others. Why lie when those two links were
posted very recently?
He supported a smalWhy would I? It can be summed up by two words "We hounded"
lnumber of co-management matters.
But I see that you cannot adress the content of the article.
The rabid right picked up on any discontent and regardless of whether >>>> they agreed or not, they supported any and all hounding of government. >>>> The "Libertarian" stance of Damien Grant is more about his very right >>>> wing views on size of government - the changes to firearms laws were >>>> largely supported by the National Party. Damien Grant is entitled to >>>> his opinion, but those opinions are not shared by a large majority of >>>> voters.
It may have escaped your notice Rich but finlayson has retired from politics. Pity you don't :)
According to Tony there is no such thing in our political environment
as the "rabid right"; and obviously that means there is no "rabid
left".
Are you sane? What insane logic - the presence of 'rabid left' orThank you Crash - I quite agree - the assertion by Tony was nonsense;
'rabid right' does not have the opposite as a prerequisite. Both can
be present without the opposite. How can you expect to sustain
logical argument with nonsense logic like this?
of course there is a rabid right; and yes in the view of many there is
a rabid left - but currrently commentators regard the rabid right as
being more significant regarding mis - and disinformation, extreme
political statements, irrational assertions etc.
Once again you don't know who you're lying to Rich. You really need help :)For what? Do you not agree that some of the parliamentary protestorsAgain then according to Tony, your comments are stupid and
unnecessarily rude., and once more you trotally fail to address the >>content - it is an illness.
Tony is of course wrong about our not having extremists - Tony
possibly regards the "Victory for Freedom" people that escalated
violence at the Parliamentary protests as being just normal people
like himself . . .
You need treatment.
were extreme?
Some of Tony's arguments might be considered extreme, but at least
there is a logical basis for them. You on the other hand exhibit
total lack of logic as outlined above.
When you get into a debating hole where you have no logical
justification for your arguments, you fail to recognise the wisdom of
not digging any further, as you did in your post above. Your
continued justification of support for co-governance as defined in the >Water reforms legislation from a past National government is the
clearest example of your flawed logic.
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 20:22:06 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 19:56:00 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:Thank you Crash - I quite agree - the assertion by Tony was nonsense;
On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 22:16:25 -0800 (PST), John Bowes >>><bowesjohn02@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, January 29, 2023 at 5:55:07 PM UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 15:10:56 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz>Whereas the rabid left keeps pushing the same fucking lies!
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 14:00:33 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> >>>>> >wrote:https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/chris-finlayson-co-governance-should-be-embraced-not-feared/
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 10:31:00 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz>Finlayson has never spoken of co-governance.
wrote:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/131079029/damien-grant-under-arderns-guidance-we-became-the-nasty-team-of-5-million
"We are moving from a regime where historical wrongs are being
addressed, to a state where one ethnic class has an inherent and
enduring political status that is based on their ancestry. This cannot >>>>> >>>end well."
And I am, sadly, of the opinion that it will not end well.
There are some clever people manufacturing claims, falsely, that
co-governance is not new. That is a lie - co-governance is a carefully >>>>> >>>planned attempt to put most of the power into the hands of a minority. >>>>> >>>Now is the time Mr Hipkins to put it away for good, but I suspect you >>>>> >>>will not.
Did you read the article by Chris Finlayson? Getting other opinions >>>>> >>ans seeking consensus makes sense . . .
and
https://www.minterellison.co.nz/insights/co-governance-the-misunderstood-political-hot-potato-and-likely-election-dominator
and there are probably others. Why lie when those two links were
posted very recently?
He supported a smalWhy would I? It can be summed up by two words "We hounded"
lnumber of co-management matters.
But I see that you cannot adress the content of the article.
The rabid right picked up on any discontent and regardless of whether >>>>> they agreed or not, they supported any and all hounding of government. >>>>> The "Libertarian" stance of Damien Grant is more about his very right >>>>> wing views on size of government - the changes to firearms laws were >>>>> largely supported by the National Party. Damien Grant is entitled to >>>>> his opinion, but those opinions are not shared by a large majority of >>>>> voters.
It may have escaped your notice Rich but finlayson has retired from politics. Pity you don't :)
According to Tony there is no such thing in our political environment
as the "rabid right"; and obviously that means there is no "rabid
left".
Are you sane? What insane logic - the presence of 'rabid left' or
'rabid right' does not have the opposite as a prerequisite. Both can
be present without the opposite. How can you expect to sustain
logical argument with nonsense logic like this?
of course there is a rabid right; and yes in the view of many there is
a rabid left - but currrently commentators regard the rabid right as
being more significant regarding mis - and disinformation, extreme
political statements, irrational assertions etc.
Again then according to Tony, your comments are stupid and
unnecessarily rude., and once more you trotally fail to address the >>>content - it is an illness.
Tony is of course wrong about our not having extremists - Tony
possibly regards the "Victory for Freedom" people that escalated
violence at the Parliamentary protests as being just normal people
like himself . . .
You need treatment.
For what? Do you not agree that some of the parliamentary protestors
were extreme?
Some of Tony's arguments might be considered extreme, but at least
there is a logical basis for them. You on the other hand exhibit
total lack of logic as outlined above.
When you get into a debating hole where you have no logical
justification for your arguments, you fail to recognise the wisdom of
not digging any further, as you did in your post above. Your
continued justification of support for co-governance as defined in the >>Water reforms legislation from a past National government is the
clearest example of your flawed logic.
On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 07:50:31 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 07:37:50 +1300, Tony <LizandTony@orcon.net.nz>Yes you did you liar. I choose not to answer something which was not a >question.
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 23:33:09 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 20:22:06 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>wrote:My assertion was and is accurate. You keep talking about rabid or far >>>right in our political parties and yet you have never (that is never >>>ever) provided any evidence.
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 19:56:00 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>wrote:Thank you Crash - I quite agree - the assertion by Tony was nonsense; >>>>of course there is a rabid right; and yes in the view of many there is >>>>a rabid left - but currrently commentators regard the rabid right as >>>>being more significant regarding mis - and disinformation, extreme >>>>political statements, irrational assertions etc.
On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 22:16:25 -0800 (PST), John Bowes >>>>>><bowesjohn02@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, January 29, 2023 at 5:55:07 PM UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote: >>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 15:10:56 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz> >>>>>>>> wrote:
Whereas the rabid left keeps pushing the same fucking lies!
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 14:00:33 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> >>>>>>>> >wrote:https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/chris-finlayson-co-governance-should-be-embraced-not-feared/
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 10:31:00 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz> >>>>>>>> >>wrote:Finlayson has never spoken of co-governance.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/131079029/damien-grant-under-arderns-guidance-we-became-the-nasty-team-of-5-million
"We are moving from a regime where historical wrongs are being >>>>>>>> >>>addressed, to a state where one ethnic class has an inherent and >>>>>>>> >>>enduring political status that is based on their ancestry. This cannot
end well."
And I am, sadly, of the opinion that it will not end well.
There are some clever people manufacturing claims, falsely, that >>>>>>>> >>>co-governance is not new. That is a lie - co-governance is a carefully
planned attempt to put most of the power into the hands of a minority.
Now is the time Mr Hipkins to put it away for good, but I suspect you
will not.
Did you read the article by Chris Finlayson? Getting other opinions >>>>>>>> >>ans seeking consensus makes sense . . .
and
https://www.minterellison.co.nz/insights/co-governance-the-misunderstood-political-hot-potato-and-likely-election-dominator
and there are probably others. Why lie when those two links were >>>>>>>> posted very recently?
He supported a smalWhy would I? It can be summed up by two words "We hounded"
lnumber of co-management matters.
But I see that you cannot adress the content of the article.
The rabid right picked up on any discontent and regardless of whether >>>>>>>> they agreed or not, they supported any and all hounding of government. >>>>>>>> The "Libertarian" stance of Damien Grant is more about his very right >>>>>>>> wing views on size of government - the changes to firearms laws were >>>>>>>> largely supported by the National Party. Damien Grant is entitled to >>>>>>>> his opinion, but those opinions are not shared by a large majority of >>>>>>>> voters.
It may have escaped your notice Rich but finlayson has retired from politics. Pity you don't :)
According to Tony there is no such thing in our political environment >>>>>>as the "rabid right"; and obviously that means there is no "rabid >>>>>>left".
Are you sane? What insane logic - the presence of 'rabid left' or >>>>>'rabid right' does not have the opposite as a prerequisite. Both can >>>>>be present without the opposite. How can you expect to sustain >>>>>logical argument with nonsense logic like this?
To suggest that there is a rabid left is also not supported by
evidence.
In fact the word rabid is somewhat silly in the NZ environment.
You are ill, rude and illiterate.
Don't you dare put words into my mouth you stupid little fart.
Again then according to Tony, your comments are stupid and >>>>>>unnecessarily rude., and once more you trotally fail to address the >>>>>>content - it is an illness.
Tony is of course wrong about our not having extremists - Tony >>>>>>possibly regards the "Victory for Freedom" people that escalated >>>>>>violence at the Parliamentary protests as being just normal people >>>>>>like himself . . .
Mere speculation, Tony; I carefully did not presume to put words in
your mouth - but I note that you were not prepared to either confirm
or deny the possibility.
There are no extreme political parties in NZ. SHoiw otherwise or piss
off once more.
still not shown otherwise. The treaty does not mention it and does not
You need treatment.
For what? Do you not agree that some of the parliamentary protestors >>>>were extreme?
Some of Tony's arguments might be considered extreme, but at least >>>>>there is a logical basis for them. You on the other hand exhibit >>>>>total lack of logic as outlined above.
When you get into a debating hole where you have no logical >>>>>justification for your arguments, you fail to recognise the wisdom of >>>>>not digging any further, as you did in your post above. Your >>>>>continued justification of support for co-governance as defined in the >>>>>Water reforms legislation from a past National government is the >>>>>clearest example of your flawed logic.
I happen to think that the arrangements brokered by the Crown under
both Michael Cullen and Chris Finlayson were good examles ofthe value
of meeting treaty obligations through sharing a right and obligation
to act in the interests of all of New Zealand through co-governance. >Irrelevant - neither of them talked about co-governmance and you have
even hint at it - you are pure political garbage encapsulated in one
tiny closed mind.
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 23:33:09 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 20:22:06 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>wrote:My comments on your sanity were clearly directed to you. What Tony
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 19:56:00 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:Thank you Crash - I quite agree - the assertion by Tony was nonsense;
On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 22:16:25 -0800 (PST), John Bowes >>>><bowesjohn02@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, January 29, 2023 at 5:55:07 PM UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 15:10:56 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz>Whereas the rabid left keeps pushing the same fucking lies!
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 14:00:33 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> >>>>>> >wrote:https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/chris-finlayson-co-governance-should-be-embraced-not-feared/
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 10:31:00 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz> >>>>>> >>wrote:Finlayson has never spoken of co-governance.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/131079029/damien-grant-under-arderns-guidance-we-became-the-nasty-team-of-5-million
"We are moving from a regime where historical wrongs are being
addressed, to a state where one ethnic class has an inherent and >>>>>> >>>enduring political status that is based on their ancestry. This cannot
end well."
And I am, sadly, of the opinion that it will not end well.
There are some clever people manufacturing claims, falsely, that >>>>>> >>>co-governance is not new. That is a lie - co-governance is a carefully
planned attempt to put most of the power into the hands of a minority.
Now is the time Mr Hipkins to put it away for good, but I suspect you >>>>>> >>>will not.
Did you read the article by Chris Finlayson? Getting other opinions >>>>>> >>ans seeking consensus makes sense . . .
and
https://www.minterellison.co.nz/insights/co-governance-the-misunderstood-political-hot-potato-and-likely-election-dominator
and there are probably others. Why lie when those two links were
posted very recently?
He supported a smalWhy would I? It can be summed up by two words "We hounded"
lnumber of co-management matters.
But I see that you cannot adress the content of the article.
The rabid right picked up on any discontent and regardless of whether >>>>>> they agreed or not, they supported any and all hounding of government. >>>>>> The "Libertarian" stance of Damien Grant is more about his very right >>>>>> wing views on size of government - the changes to firearms laws were >>>>>> largely supported by the National Party. Damien Grant is entitled to >>>>>> his opinion, but those opinions are not shared by a large majority of >>>>>> voters.
It may have escaped your notice Rich but finlayson has retired from politics. Pity you don't :)
According to Tony there is no such thing in our political environment >>>>as the "rabid right"; and obviously that means there is no "rabid >>>>left".
Are you sane? What insane logic - the presence of 'rabid left' or
'rabid right' does not have the opposite as a prerequisite. Both can
be present without the opposite. How can you expect to sustain
logical argument with nonsense logic like this?
of course there is a rabid right; and yes in the view of many there is
a rabid left - but currrently commentators regard the rabid right as
being more significant regarding mis - and disinformation, extreme >>political statements, irrational assertions etc.
may or may not have said is irrelevant. Your contention that we have
'rabid right' political parties is simply nonsensical and dressed up
with emotive overtones. Generally I don't respond to your more
extreme and irrational posts.
I don't know about Tony but the original protesters that marched to >Parliament were not extreme unless you consider all anti-government >protestors to be extreme.
Again then according to Tony, your comments are stupid and >>>>unnecessarily rude., and once more you trotally fail to address the >>>>content - it is an illness.
Tony is of course wrong about our not having extremists - Tony
possibly regards the "Victory for Freedom" people that escalated >>>>violence at the Parliamentary protests as being just normal people
like himself . . .
You need treatment.
For what? Do you not agree that some of the parliamentary protestors
were extreme?
https://www.ipca.govt.nz/Site/parliament-protest/
There may have been just 100 protestors the first night but there were
many more that marched to Parliament that day - indicating that the
protest was started by many that dispersed peacefully. If the Police
had taken action on day 2 to end the occupation they mayhem that
followed would have been averted.
The actions of those that camped out on the Parliamentary lawn were
way beyond the right to protest. If there is a next time, the Police
should enforce the law and evict the protestors.
The Police, and by inference the government, were made to look
ineffectual.
Some of Tony's arguments might be considered extreme, but at least
there is a logical basis for them. You on the other hand exhibit
total lack of logic as outlined above.
When you get into a debating hole where you have no logical
justification for your arguments, you fail to recognise the wisdom of
not digging any further, as you did in your post above. Your
continued justification of support for co-governance as defined in the >>>Water reforms legislation from a past National government is the
clearest example of your flawed logic.
On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 09:10:06 +1300, Tony <LizandTony@orcon.net.nz>
wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 07:50:31 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 07:37:50 +1300, Tony <LizandTony@orcon.net.nz>Yes you did you liar. I choose not to answer something which was not a >>question.
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 23:33:09 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 20:22:06 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>>wrote:My assertion was and is accurate. You keep talking about rabid or far >>>>right in our political parties and yet you have never (that is never >>>>ever) provided any evidence.
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 19:56:00 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>wrote:Thank you Crash - I quite agree - the assertion by Tony was nonsense; >>>>>of course there is a rabid right; and yes in the view of many there is >>>>>a rabid left - but currrently commentators regard the rabid right as >>>>>being more significant regarding mis - and disinformation, extreme >>>>>political statements, irrational assertions etc.
On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 22:16:25 -0800 (PST), John Bowes >>>>>>><bowesjohn02@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, January 29, 2023 at 5:55:07 PM UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 15:10:56 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
Whereas the rabid left keeps pushing the same fucking lies!
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 14:00:33 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> >>>>>>>>> >wrote:and
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 10:31:00 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz> >>>>>>>>> >>wrote:
Finlayson has never spoken of co-governance."We are moving from a regime where historical wrongs are being >>>>>>>>> >>>addressed, to a state where one ethnic class has an inherent and >>>>>>>>> >>>enduring political status that is based on their ancestry. This >>>>>>>>> >>>cannothttps://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/131079029/damien-grant-under-arderns-guidance-we-became-the-nasty-team-of-5-million
end well."
And I am, sadly, of the opinion that it will not end well. >>>>>>>>> >>>
There are some clever people manufacturing claims, falsely, that >>>>>>>>> >>>co-governance is not new. That is a lie - co-governance is a >>>>>>>>> >>>carefully
planned attempt to put most of the power into the hands of a >>>>>>>>> >>>minority.
Now is the time Mr Hipkins to put it away for good, but I suspect >>>>>>>>> >>>you
will not.
Did you read the article by Chris Finlayson? Getting other opinions >>>>>>>>> >>ans seeking consensus makes sense . . .
https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/chris-finlayson-co-governance-should-be-embraced-not-feared/
and there are probably others. Why lie when those two links were >>>>>>>>> posted very recently?https://www.minterellison.co.nz/insights/co-governance-the-misunderstood-political-hot-potato-and-likely-election-dominator
He supported a smalThe rabid right picked up on any discontent and regardless of whether >>>>>>>>> they agreed or not, they supported any and all hounding of >>>>>>>>>government.
lnumber of co-management matters.
But I see that you cannot adress the content of the article. >>>>>>>>> Why would I? It can be summed up by two words "We hounded"
The "Libertarian" stance of Damien Grant is more about his very right >>>>>>>>> wing views on size of government - the changes to firearms laws were >>>>>>>>> largely supported by the National Party. Damien Grant is entitled to >>>>>>>>> his opinion, but those opinions are not shared by a large majority of >>>>>>>>> voters.
It may have escaped your notice Rich but finlayson has retired from >>>>>>>>politics. Pity you don't :)
According to Tony there is no such thing in our political environment >>>>>>>as the "rabid right"; and obviously that means there is no "rabid >>>>>>>left".
Are you sane? What insane logic - the presence of 'rabid left' or >>>>>>'rabid right' does not have the opposite as a prerequisite. Both can >>>>>>be present without the opposite. How can you expect to sustain >>>>>>logical argument with nonsense logic like this?
To suggest that there is a rabid left is also not supported by >>>>evidence.
In fact the word rabid is somewhat silly in the NZ environment.
You are ill, rude and illiterate.
Don't you dare put words into my mouth you stupid little fart.
Again then according to Tony, your comments are stupid and >>>>>>>unnecessarily rude., and once more you trotally fail to address the >>>>>>>content - it is an illness.
Tony is of course wrong about our not having extremists - Tony >>>>>>>possibly regards the "Victory for Freedom" people that escalated >>>>>>>violence at the Parliamentary protests as being just normal people >>>>>>>like himself . . .
Mere speculation, Tony; I carefully did not presume to put words in
your mouth - but I note that you were not prepared to either confirm
or deny the possibility.
There are no extreme political parties in NZ. SHoiw otherwise or piss
off once more.
I do not claim that we have extreme political parties - sure there are >differences, but about 75% of legislation is said to be agreed by
Labur and National (regardless of which is in govenment), and that
still remains over 50% when all other parties are included (and even
then, sometime it is token oposition to get noticed)
But there are individuals with extreme political views; and many
commentators appear to believe that the number of such extremists has >increased over the last 10 to 15 years - often due to social media and >international extremists able to spread their message more widely -
and in the USA deliberate manipulation (eg Trump campaign).
still not shown otherwise. The treaty does not mention it and does not
You need treatment.
For what? Do you not agree that some of the parliamentary protestors >>>>>were extreme?
Some of Tony's arguments might be considered extreme, but at least >>>>>>there is a logical basis for them. You on the other hand exhibit >>>>>>total lack of logic as outlined above.
When you get into a debating hole where you have no logical >>>>>>justification for your arguments, you fail to recognise the wisdom of >>>>>>not digging any further, as you did in your post above. Your >>>>>>continued justification of support for co-governance as defined in the >>>>>>Water reforms legislation from a past National government is the >>>>>>clearest example of your flawed logic.
I happen to think that the arrangements brokered by the Crown under
both Michael Cullen and Chris Finlayson were good examles ofthe value
of meeting treaty obligations through sharing a right and obligation
to act in the interests of all of New Zealand through co-governance. >>Irrelevant - neither of them talked about co-governmance and you have
even hint at it - you are pure political garbage encapsulated in one
tiny closed mind.
On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 11:31:16 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>Define rabid in this context - it seems way over the top and quite silly.
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 23:33:09 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 20:22:06 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>wrote:My comments on your sanity were clearly directed to you. What Tony
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 19:56:00 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>wrote:Thank you Crash - I quite agree - the assertion by Tony was nonsense;
On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 22:16:25 -0800 (PST), John Bowes >>>>><bowesjohn02@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, January 29, 2023 at 5:55:07 PM UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote: >>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 15:10:56 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz> >>>>>>> wrote:
Whereas the rabid left keeps pushing the same fucking lies!
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 14:00:33 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> >>>>>>> >wrote:and
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 10:31:00 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz> >>>>>>> >>wrote:
Finlayson has never spoken of co-governance."We are moving from a regime where historical wrongs are being >>>>>>> >>>addressed, to a state where one ethnic class has an inherent and >>>>>>> >>>enduring political status that is based on their ancestry. This >>>>>>> >>>cannothttps://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/131079029/damien-grant-under-arderns-guidance-we-became-the-nasty-team-of-5-million
end well."
And I am, sadly, of the opinion that it will not end well.
There are some clever people manufacturing claims, falsely, that >>>>>>> >>>co-governance is not new. That is a lie - co-governance is a
carefully
planned attempt to put most of the power into the hands of a
minority.
Now is the time Mr Hipkins to put it away for good, but I suspect >>>>>>> >>>you
will not.
Did you read the article by Chris Finlayson? Getting other opinions >>>>>>> >>ans seeking consensus makes sense . . .
https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/chris-finlayson-co-governance-should-be-embraced-not-feared/
and there are probably others. Why lie when those two links were >>>>>>> posted very recently?https://www.minterellison.co.nz/insights/co-governance-the-misunderstood-political-hot-potato-and-likely-election-dominator
He supported a smalWhy would I? It can be summed up by two words "We hounded"
lnumber of co-management matters.
But I see that you cannot adress the content of the article.
The rabid right picked up on any discontent and regardless of whether >>>>>>> they agreed or not, they supported any and all hounding of government. >>>>>>> The "Libertarian" stance of Damien Grant is more about his very right >>>>>>> wing views on size of government - the changes to firearms laws were >>>>>>> largely supported by the National Party. Damien Grant is entitled to >>>>>>> his opinion, but those opinions are not shared by a large majority of >>>>>>> voters.
It may have escaped your notice Rich but finlayson has retired from >>>>>>politics. Pity you don't :)
According to Tony there is no such thing in our political environment >>>>>as the "rabid right"; and obviously that means there is no "rabid >>>>>left".
Are you sane? What insane logic - the presence of 'rabid left' or >>>>'rabid right' does not have the opposite as a prerequisite. Both can >>>>be present without the opposite. How can you expect to sustain
logical argument with nonsense logic like this?
of course there is a rabid right; and yes in the view of many there is
a rabid left - but currrently commentators regard the rabid right as >>>being more significant regarding mis - and disinformation, extreme >>>political statements, irrational assertions etc.
may or may not have said is irrelevant. Your contention that we have >>'rabid right' political parties is simply nonsensical and dressed up
with emotive overtones. Generally I don't respond to your more
extreme and irrational posts.
I referred to rabid right individuals - see my previous message to
Tony.
I don't know about Tony but the original protesters that marched to >>Parliament were not extreme unless you consider all anti-government >>protestors to be extreme.
Again then according to Tony, your comments are stupid and >>>>>unnecessarily rude., and once more you trotally fail to address the >>>>>content - it is an illness.
Tony is of course wrong about our not having extremists - Tony >>>>>possibly regards the "Victory for Freedom" people that escalated >>>>>violence at the Parliamentary protests as being just normal people >>>>>like himself . . .
You need treatment.
For what? Do you not agree that some of the parliamentary protestors
were extreme?
https://www.ipca.govt.nz/Site/parliament-protest/
There may have been just 100 protestors the first night but there were
many more that marched to Parliament that day - indicating that the
protest was started by many that dispersed peacefully. If the Police
had taken action on day 2 to end the occupation they mayhem that
followed would have been averted.
The actions of those that camped out on the Parliamentary lawn were
way beyond the right to protest. If there is a next time, the Police >>should enforce the law and evict the protestors.
The Police, and by inference the government, were made to look
ineffectual.
Some of Tony's arguments might be considered extreme, but at least >>>>there is a logical basis for them. You on the other hand exhibit
total lack of logic as outlined above.
When you get into a debating hole where you have no logical >>>>justification for your arguments, you fail to recognise the wisdom of >>>>not digging any further, as you did in your post above. Your
continued justification of support for co-governance as defined in the >>>>Water reforms legislation from a past National government is the >>>>clearest example of your flawed logic.
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 23:33:09 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 20:22:06 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>wrote:My comments on your sanity were clearly directed to you. What Tony
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 19:56:00 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:Thank you Crash - I quite agree - the assertion by Tony was nonsense;
On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 22:16:25 -0800 (PST), John Bowes >>>><bowesjohn02@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, January 29, 2023 at 5:55:07 PM UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 15:10:56 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz>Whereas the rabid left keeps pushing the same fucking lies!
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 14:00:33 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> >>>>>> >wrote:https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/chris-finlayson-co-governance-should-be-embraced-not-feared/
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 10:31:00 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz> >>>>>> >>wrote:Finlayson has never spoken of co-governance.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/131079029/damien-grant-under-arderns-guidance-we-became-the-nasty-team-of-5-million
"We are moving from a regime where historical wrongs are being
addressed, to a state where one ethnic class has an inherent and >>>>>> >>>enduring political status that is based on their ancestry. This cannot
end well."
And I am, sadly, of the opinion that it will not end well.
There are some clever people manufacturing claims, falsely, that >>>>>> >>>co-governance is not new. That is a lie - co-governance is a carefully
planned attempt to put most of the power into the hands of a minority.
Now is the time Mr Hipkins to put it away for good, but I suspect you >>>>>> >>>will not.
Did you read the article by Chris Finlayson? Getting other opinions >>>>>> >>ans seeking consensus makes sense . . .
and
https://www.minterellison.co.nz/insights/co-governance-the-misunderstood-political-hot-potato-and-likely-election-dominator
and there are probably others. Why lie when those two links were
posted very recently?
He supported a smalWhy would I? It can be summed up by two words "We hounded"
lnumber of co-management matters.
But I see that you cannot adress the content of the article.
The rabid right picked up on any discontent and regardless of whether >>>>>> they agreed or not, they supported any and all hounding of government. >>>>>> The "Libertarian" stance of Damien Grant is more about his very right >>>>>> wing views on size of government - the changes to firearms laws were >>>>>> largely supported by the National Party. Damien Grant is entitled to >>>>>> his opinion, but those opinions are not shared by a large majority of >>>>>> voters.
It may have escaped your notice Rich but finlayson has retired from politics. Pity you don't :)
According to Tony there is no such thing in our political environment >>>>as the "rabid right"; and obviously that means there is no "rabid >>>>left".
Are you sane? What insane logic - the presence of 'rabid left' or
'rabid right' does not have the opposite as a prerequisite. Both can
be present without the opposite. How can you expect to sustain
logical argument with nonsense logic like this?
of course there is a rabid right; and yes in the view of many there is
a rabid left - but currrently commentators regard the rabid right as
being more significant regarding mis - and disinformation, extreme >>political statements, irrational assertions etc.
may or may not have said is irrelevant. Your contention that we have
'rabid right' political parties is simply nonsensical and dressed up
with emotive overtones. Generally I don't respond to your more
extreme and irrational posts.
I don't know about Tony but the original protesters that marched to Parliament were not extreme unless you consider all anti-government protestors to be extreme.
Again then according to Tony, your comments are stupid and >>>>unnecessarily rude., and once more you trotally fail to address the >>>>content - it is an illness.
Tony is of course wrong about our not having extremists - Tony
possibly regards the "Victory for Freedom" people that escalated >>>>violence at the Parliamentary protests as being just normal people
like himself . . .
You need treatment.
For what? Do you not agree that some of the parliamentary protestors
were extreme?
https://www.ipca.govt.nz/Site/parliament-protest/
There may have been just 100 protestors the first night but there were
many more that marched to Parliament that day - indicating that the
protest was started by many that dispersed peacefully. If the Police
had taken action on day 2 to end the occupation they mayhem that
followed would have been averted.
The actions of those that camped out on the Parliamentary lawn were
way beyond the right to protest. If there is a next time, the Police
should enforce the law and evict the protestors.
The Police, and by inference the government, were made to look
ineffectual.
Some of Tony's arguments might be considered extreme, but at least
there is a logical basis for them. You on the other hand exhibit
total lack of logic as outlined above.
When you get into a debating hole where you have no logical
justification for your arguments, you fail to recognise the wisdom of
not digging any further, as you did in your post above. Your
continued justification of support for co-governance as defined in the >>>Water reforms legislation from a past National government is the
clearest example of your flawed logic.
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 09:10:06 +1300, Tony <LizandTony@orcon.net.nz>
wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 07:50:31 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 07:37:50 +1300, Tony <LizandTony@orcon.net.nz> >>>>wrote:Yes you did you liar. I choose not to answer something which was not a >>>question.
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 23:33:09 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 20:22:06 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>>>wrote:My assertion was and is accurate. You keep talking about rabid or far >>>>>right in our political parties and yet you have never (that is never >>>>>ever) provided any evidence.
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 19:56:00 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>>wrote:Thank you Crash - I quite agree - the assertion by Tony was nonsense; >>>>>>of course there is a rabid right; and yes in the view of many there is >>>>>>a rabid left - but currrently commentators regard the rabid right as >>>>>>being more significant regarding mis - and disinformation, extreme >>>>>>political statements, irrational assertions etc.
On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 22:16:25 -0800 (PST), John Bowes >>>>>>>><bowesjohn02@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, January 29, 2023 at 5:55:07 PM UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 15:10:56 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
Whereas the rabid left keeps pushing the same fucking lies! >>>>>>>>>It may have escaped your notice Rich but finlayson has retired from >>>>>>>>>politics. Pity you don't :)
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 14:00:33 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> >>>>>>>>>> >wrote:and
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 10:31:00 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz> >>>>>>>>>> >>wrote:
Finlayson has never spoken of co-governance."We are moving from a regime where historical wrongs are being >>>>>>>>>> >>>addressed, to a state where one ethnic class has an inherent and >>>>>>>>>> >>>enduring political status that is based on their ancestry. This >>>>>>>>>> >>>cannothttps://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/131079029/damien-grant-under-arderns-guidance-we-became-the-nasty-team-of-5-million
end well."
And I am, sadly, of the opinion that it will not end well. >>>>>>>>>> >>>
There are some clever people manufacturing claims, falsely, that >>>>>>>>>> >>>co-governance is not new. That is a lie - co-governance is a >>>>>>>>>> >>>carefully
planned attempt to put most of the power into the hands of a >>>>>>>>>> >>>minority.
Now is the time Mr Hipkins to put it away for good, but I suspect >>>>>>>>>> >>>you
will not.
Did you read the article by Chris Finlayson? Getting other opinions
ans seeking consensus makes sense . . .
https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/chris-finlayson-co-governance-should-be-embraced-not-feared/
and there are probably others. Why lie when those two links were >>>>>>>>>> posted very recently?https://www.minterellison.co.nz/insights/co-governance-the-misunderstood-political-hot-potato-and-likely-election-dominator
He supported a smalthey agreed or not, they supported any and all hounding of >>>>>>>>>>government.
lnumber of co-management matters.
But I see that you cannot adress the content of the article. >>>>>>>>>> Why would I? It can be summed up by two words "We hounded" >>>>>>>>>> The rabid right picked up on any discontent and regardless of whether
The "Libertarian" stance of Damien Grant is more about his very right
wing views on size of government - the changes to firearms laws were >>>>>>>>>> largely supported by the National Party. Damien Grant is entitled to >>>>>>>>>> his opinion, but those opinions are not shared by a large majority of
voters.
According to Tony there is no such thing in our political environment >>>>>>>>as the "rabid right"; and obviously that means there is no "rabid >>>>>>>>left".
Are you sane? What insane logic - the presence of 'rabid left' or >>>>>>>'rabid right' does not have the opposite as a prerequisite. Both can >>>>>>>be present without the opposite. How can you expect to sustain >>>>>>>logical argument with nonsense logic like this?
To suggest that there is a rabid left is also not supported by >>>>>evidence.
In fact the word rabid is somewhat silly in the NZ environment.
You are ill, rude and illiterate.
Don't you dare put words into my mouth you stupid little fart.
Again then according to Tony, your comments are stupid and >>>>>>>>unnecessarily rude., and once more you trotally fail to address the >>>>>>>>content - it is an illness.
Tony is of course wrong about our not having extremists - Tony >>>>>>>>possibly regards the "Victory for Freedom" people that escalated >>>>>>>>violence at the Parliamentary protests as being just normal people >>>>>>>>like himself . . .
Mere speculation, Tony; I carefully did not presume to put words in >>>>your mouth - but I note that you were not prepared to either confirm
or deny the possibility.
There are no extreme political parties in NZ. SHoiw otherwise or piss
off once more.
I do not claim that we have extreme political parties - sure there are >>differences, but about 75% of legislation is said to be agreed by
Labur and National (regardless of which is in govenment), and that
still remains over 50% when all other parties are included (and even
then, sometime it is token oposition to get noticed)
But there are individuals with extreme political views; and many >>commentators appear to believe that the number of such extremists has >>increased over the last 10 to 15 years - often due to social media and >>international extremists able to spread their message more widely -
and in the USA deliberate manipulation (eg Trump campaign).
Some evidence would help, but you were clearly referring to rabid right >politics.
tiny closed mind.
You need treatment.
For what? Do you not agree that some of the parliamentary protestors >>>>>>were extreme?
Some of Tony's arguments might be considered extreme, but at least >>>>>>>there is a logical basis for them. You on the other hand exhibit >>>>>>>total lack of logic as outlined above.
When you get into a debating hole where you have no logical >>>>>>>justification for your arguments, you fail to recognise the wisdom of >>>>>>>not digging any further, as you did in your post above. Your >>>>>>>continued justification of support for co-governance as defined in the >>>>>>>Water reforms legislation from a past National government is the >>>>>>>clearest example of your flawed logic.
I happen to think that the arrangements brokered by the Crown under >>>>both Michael Cullen and Chris Finlayson were good examles ofthe value >>>>of meeting treaty obligations through sharing a right and obligation
to act in the interests of all of New Zealand through co-governance. >>>Irrelevant - neither of them talked about co-governmance and you have >>>still not shown otherwise. The treaty does not mention it and does not >>>even hint at it - you are pure political garbage encapsulated in one
On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 00:22:35 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 09:10:06 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz>
wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 07:50:31 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 07:37:50 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz> >>>>wrote:Yes you did you liar. I choose not to answer something which was not a >>>question.
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 23:33:09 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> >>>>>wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 20:22:06 +1300, Crash <nog...@dontbother.invalid> >>>>>>wrote:My assertion was and is accurate. You keep talking about rabid or far >>>>>right in our political parties and yet you have never (that is never >>>>>ever) provided any evidence.
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 19:56:00 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> >>>>>>>wrote:Thank you Crash - I quite agree - the assertion by Tony was nonsense; >>>>>>of course there is a rabid right; and yes in the view of many there is >>>>>>a rabid left - but currrently commentators regard the rabid right as >>>>>>being more significant regarding mis - and disinformation, extreme >>>>>>political statements, irrational assertions etc.
On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 22:16:25 -0800 (PST), John Bowes >>>>>>>><bowes...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, January 29, 2023 at 5:55:07 PM UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 15:10:56 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
Whereas the rabid left keeps pushing the same fucking lies! >>>>>>>>>It may have escaped your notice Rich but finlayson has retired from >>>>>>>>>politics. Pity you don't :)
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 14:00:33 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com>and
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 10:31:00 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz>
wrote:
Finlayson has never spoken of co-governance."We are moving from a regime where historical wrongs are being >>>>>>>>>> >>>addressed, to a state where one ethnic class has an inherent andhttps://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/131079029/damien-grant-under-arderns-guidance-we-became-the-nasty-team-of-5-million
enduring political status that is based on their ancestry. This
cannot
end well."
And I am, sadly, of the opinion that it will not end well. >>>>>>>>>> >>>
There are some clever people manufacturing claims, falsely, that
co-governance is not new. That is a lie - co-governance is a >>>>>>>>>> >>>carefully
planned attempt to put most of the power into the hands of a >>>>>>>>>> >>>minority.
Now is the time Mr Hipkins to put it away for good, but I suspect
you
will not.
Did you read the article by Chris Finlayson? Getting other opinions
ans seeking consensus makes sense . . .
https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/chris-finlayson-co-governance-should-be-embraced-not-feared/
and there are probably others. Why lie when those two links were >>>>>>>>>> posted very recently?https://www.minterellison.co.nz/insights/co-governance-the-misunderstood-political-hot-potato-and-likely-election-dominator
He supported a smalthey agreed or not, they supported any and all hounding of >>>>>>>>>>government.
lnumber of co-management matters.
But I see that you cannot adress the content of the article. >>>>>>>>>> Why would I? It can be summed up by two words "We hounded" >>>>>>>>>> The rabid right picked up on any discontent and regardless of whether
The "Libertarian" stance of Damien Grant is more about his very right
wing views on size of government - the changes to firearms laws were
largely supported by the National Party. Damien Grant is entitled to
his opinion, but those opinions are not shared by a large majority of
voters.
According to Tony there is no such thing in our political environment
as the "rabid right"; and obviously that means there is no "rabid >>>>>>>>left".
Are you sane? What insane logic - the presence of 'rabid left' or >>>>>>>'rabid right' does not have the opposite as a prerequisite. Both can >>>>>>>be present without the opposite. How can you expect to sustain >>>>>>>logical argument with nonsense logic like this?
To suggest that there is a rabid left is also not supported by >>>>>evidence.
In fact the word rabid is somewhat silly in the NZ environment. >>>>>You are ill, rude and illiterate.
Don't you dare put words into my mouth you stupid little fart.
Again then according to Tony, your comments are stupid and >>>>>>>>unnecessarily rude., and once more you trotally fail to address the >>>>>>>>content - it is an illness.
Tony is of course wrong about our not having extremists - Tony >>>>>>>>possibly regards the "Victory for Freedom" people that escalated >>>>>>>>violence at the Parliamentary protests as being just normal people >>>>>>>>like himself . . .
Mere speculation, Tony; I carefully did not presume to put words in >>>>your mouth - but I note that you were not prepared to either confirm >>>>or deny the possibility.
There are no extreme political parties in NZ. SHoiw otherwise or piss >>>off once more.
I do not claim that we have extreme political parties - sure there are >>differences, but about 75% of legislation is said to be agreed by
Labur and National (regardless of which is in govenment), and that
still remains over 50% when all other parties are included (and even >>then, sometime it is token oposition to get noticed)
But there are individuals with extreme political views; and many >>commentators appear to believe that the number of such extremists has >>increased over the last 10 to 15 years - often due to social media and >>international extremists able to spread their message more widely -
and in the USA deliberate manipulation (eg Trump campaign).
Some evidence would help, but you were clearly referring to rabid right >politics.Yes, the politics that is believed / expressed by individuals. You
have a view on politics but claim not to support any particualr party.
You need treatment.
For what? Do you not agree that some of the parliamentary protestors >>>>>>were extreme?
Some of Tony's arguments might be considered extreme, but at least >>>>>>>there is a logical basis for them. You on the other hand exhibit >>>>>>>total lack of logic as outlined above.
When you get into a debating hole where you have no logical >>>>>>>justification for your arguments, you fail to recognise the wisdom of >>>>>>>not digging any further, as you did in your post above. Your >>>>>>>continued justification of support for co-governance as defined in the
Water reforms legislation from a past National government is the >>>>>>>clearest example of your flawed logic.
I happen to think that the arrangements brokered by the Crown under >>>>both Michael Cullen and Chris Finlayson were good examles ofthe value >>>>of meeting treaty obligations through sharing a right and obligation >>>>to act in the interests of all of New Zealand through co-governance. >>>Irrelevant - neither of them talked about co-governmance and you have >>>still not shown otherwise. The treaty does not mention it and does not >>>even hint at it - you are pure political garbage encapsulated in one >>>tiny closed mind.
On 30 Jan 2023 03:12:11 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:Are you drunk?
On 2023-01-29, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 23:33:09 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 20:22:06 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>wrote:My comments on your sanity were clearly directed to you. What Tony
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 19:56:00 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>wrote:Thank you Crash - I quite agree - the assertion by Tony was nonsense; >>>>of course there is a rabid right; and yes in the view of many there is >>>>a rabid left - but currrently commentators regard the rabid right as >>>>being more significant regarding mis - and disinformation, extreme >>>>political statements, irrational assertions etc.
On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 22:16:25 -0800 (PST), John Bowes >>>>>><bowesjohn02@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, January 29, 2023 at 5:55:07 PM UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote: >>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 15:10:56 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz> >>>>>>>> wrote:
Whereas the rabid left keeps pushing the same fucking lies!
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 14:00:33 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> >>>>>>>> >wrote:and
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 10:31:00 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz> >>>>>>>> >>wrote:
Finlayson has never spoken of co-governance."We are moving from a regime where historical wrongs are being >>>>>>>> >>>addressed, to a state where one ethnic class has an inherent and >>>>>>>> >>>enduring political status that is based on their ancestry. This >>>>>>>> >>>cannothttps://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/131079029/damien-grant-under-arderns-guidance-we-became-the-nasty-team-of-5-million
end well."
And I am, sadly, of the opinion that it will not end well.
There are some clever people manufacturing claims, falsely, that >>>>>>>> >>>co-governance is not new. That is a lie - co-governance is a >>>>>>>> >>>carefully
planned attempt to put most of the power into the hands of a >>>>>>>> >>>minority.
Now is the time Mr Hipkins to put it away for good, but I suspect >>>>>>>> >>>you
will not.
Did you read the article by Chris Finlayson? Getting other opinions >>>>>>>> >>ans seeking consensus makes sense . . .
https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/chris-finlayson-co-governance-should-be-embraced-not-feared/
and there are probably others. Why lie when those two links were >>>>>>>> posted very recently?https://www.minterellison.co.nz/insights/co-governance-the-misunderstood-political-hot-potato-and-likely-election-dominator
He supported a smalWhy would I? It can be summed up by two words "We hounded"
lnumber of co-management matters.
But I see that you cannot adress the content of the article.
The rabid right picked up on any discontent and regardless of whether >>>>>>>> they agreed or not, they supported any and all hounding of government. >>>>>>>> The "Libertarian" stance of Damien Grant is more about his very right >>>>>>>> wing views on size of government - the changes to firearms laws were >>>>>>>> largely supported by the National Party. Damien Grant is entitled to >>>>>>>> his opinion, but those opinions are not shared by a large majority of >>>>>>>> voters.
It may have escaped your notice Rich but finlayson has retired from >>>>>>>politics. Pity you don't :)
According to Tony there is no such thing in our political environment >>>>>>as the "rabid right"; and obviously that means there is no "rabid >>>>>>left".
Are you sane? What insane logic - the presence of 'rabid left' or >>>>>'rabid right' does not have the opposite as a prerequisite. Both can >>>>>be present without the opposite. How can you expect to sustain >>>>>logical argument with nonsense logic like this?
may or may not have said is irrelevant. Your contention that we have
'rabid right' political parties is simply nonsensical and dressed up
with emotive overtones. Generally I don't respond to your more
extreme and irrational posts.
I don't know about Tony but the original protesters that marched to
Again then according to Tony, your comments are stupid and >>>>>>unnecessarily rude., and once more you trotally fail to address the >>>>>>content - it is an illness.
Tony is of course wrong about our not having extremists - Tony >>>>>>possibly regards the "Victory for Freedom" people that escalated >>>>>>violence at the Parliamentary protests as being just normal people >>>>>>like himself . . .
You need treatment.
For what? Do you not agree that some of the parliamentary protestors >>>>were extreme?
Parliament were not extreme unless you consider all anti-government
protestors to be extreme.
https://www.ipca.govt.nz/Site/parliament-protest/
They went there to see the Government, to see the PM, or others about the >>Government's processes on the Covid response.
The fact that they got a flat refusal did nothing to help the situation.
There may have been just 100 protestors the first night but there were
many more that marched to Parliament that day - indicating that the
protest was started by many that dispersed peacefully. If the Police
had taken action on day 2 to end the occupation they mayhem that
followed would have been averted.
Had the PM had the responsibility to meet with the protesters it is highly >>likely that each side would have made its point and the protesters would >>have gone away. Ceratinly the high ground would have no longer been under >>their feet.
ou may be talking about a different protest. Fairly early on there
were people holding banners calling for Ardern to be hanged. Both
Ardern and Luxon acted responsibly in refusing to allow any of their
MPs to go out among the protestors. Fairly early on there the leader
of a Nazi party being interviewed. Those nice peaceful protestors
forced teh clsure of to secondary schools for girls to close . . .
The actions of those that camped out on the Parliamentary lawn were
way beyond the right to protest. If there is a next time, the Police
should enforce the law and evict the protestors.
The Police, and by inference the government, were made to look
ineffectual.
Some of Tony's arguments might be considered extreme, but at least >>>>>there is a logical basis for them. You on the other hand exhibit >>>>>total lack of logic as outlined above.
When you get into a debating hole where you have no logical >>>>>justification for your arguments, you fail to recognise the wisdom of >>>>>not digging any further, as you did in your post above. Your >>>>>continued justification of support for co-governance as defined in the >>>>>Water reforms legislation from a past National government is the >>>>>clearest example of your flawed logic.
On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 04:16:30 -0000 (UTC), TonySo identify these mythical creatures.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 00:22:35 -0000 (UTC), TonySo when you can get your brain working maybe you could explain what that >>sentence actually means.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 09:10:06 +1300, Tony <LizandTony@orcon.net.nz> >>>>>wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 07:50:31 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 07:37:50 +1300, Tony <LizandTony@orcon.net.nz> >>>>>>>wrote:Yes you did you liar. I choose not to answer something which was not a >>>>>>question.
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 23:33:09 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>>>wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 20:22:06 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>>>>>>wrote:My assertion was and is accurate. You keep talking about rabid or far >>>>>>>>right in our political parties and yet you have never (that is never >>>>>>>>ever) provided any evidence.
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 19:56:00 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>wrote:Thank you Crash - I quite agree - the assertion by Tony was nonsense; >>>>>>>>>of course there is a rabid right; and yes in the view of many there is >>>>>>>>>a rabid left - but currrently commentators regard the rabid right as >>>>>>>>>being more significant regarding mis - and disinformation, extreme >>>>>>>>>political statements, irrational assertions etc.
On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 22:16:25 -0800 (PST), John Bowes >>>>>>>>>>><bowesjohn02@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, January 29, 2023 at 5:55:07 PM UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 15:10:56 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
Whereas the rabid left keeps pushing the same fucking lies! >>>>>>>>>>>>It may have escaped your notice Rich but finlayson has retired from >>>>>>>>>>>>politics. Pity you don't :)
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 14:00:33 +1300, Rich80105
<Rich...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 10:31:00 +1300, Tony
<Lizan...@orcon.net.nz>
wrote:
andFinlayson has never spoken of co-governance."We are moving from a regime where historical wrongs are being >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>addressed, to a state where one ethnic class has an inherent >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>andhttps://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/131079029/damien-grant-under-arderns-guidance-we-became-the-nasty-team-of-5-million
enduring political status that is based on their ancestry. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>This
cannot
end well."
And I am, sadly, of the opinion that it will not end well. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
There are some clever people manufacturing claims, falsely, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>that
co-governance is not new. That is a lie - co-governance is a >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>carefully
planned attempt to put most of the power into the hands of a >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>minority.
Now is the time Mr Hipkins to put it away for good, but I >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>suspect
you
will not.
Did you read the article by Chris Finlayson? Getting other >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>opinions
ans seeking consensus makes sense . . .
https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/chris-finlayson-co-governance-should-be-embraced-not-feared/
and there are probably others. Why lie when those two links were >>>>>>>>>>>>> posted very recently?https://www.minterellison.co.nz/insights/co-governance-the-misunderstood-political-hot-potato-and-likely-election-dominator
He supported a smalthey agreed or not, they supported any and all hounding of >>>>>>>>>>>>>government.
lnumber of co-management matters.
But I see that you cannot adress the content of the article. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Why would I? It can be summed up by two words "We hounded" >>>>>>>>>>>>> The rabid right picked up on any discontent and regardless of >>>>>>>>>>>>>whether
The "Libertarian" stance of Damien Grant is more about his very >>>>>>>>>>>>>right
wing views on size of government - the changes to firearms laws >>>>>>>>>>>>>were
largely supported by the National Party. Damien Grant is entitled >>>>>>>>>>>>>to
his opinion, but those opinions are not shared by a large >>>>>>>>>>>>>majority
of
voters.
According to Tony there is no such thing in our political environment
as the "rabid right"; and obviously that means there is no "rabid >>>>>>>>>>>left".
Are you sane? What insane logic - the presence of 'rabid left' or >>>>>>>>>>'rabid right' does not have the opposite as a prerequisite. Both can >>>>>>>>>>be present without the opposite. How can you expect to sustain >>>>>>>>>>logical argument with nonsense logic like this?
To suggest that there is a rabid left is also not supported by >>>>>>>>evidence.
In fact the word rabid is somewhat silly in the NZ environment. >>>>>>>>You are ill, rude and illiterate.
Don't you dare put words into my mouth you stupid little fart.
Again then according to Tony, your comments are stupid and >>>>>>>>>>>unnecessarily rude., and once more you trotally fail to address the >>>>>>>>>>>content - it is an illness.
Tony is of course wrong about our not having extremists - Tony >>>>>>>>>>>possibly regards the "Victory for Freedom" people that escalated >>>>>>>>>>>violence at the Parliamentary protests as being just normal people >>>>>>>>>>>like himself . . .
Mere speculation, Tony; I carefully did not presume to put words in >>>>>>>your mouth - but I note that you were not prepared to either confirm >>>>>>>or deny the possibility.
There are no extreme political parties in NZ. SHoiw otherwise or piss >>>>>>off once more.
I do not claim that we have extreme political parties - sure there are >>>>>differences, but about 75% of legislation is said to be agreed by >>>>>Labour and National (regardless of which is in govenment), and that >>>>>still remains over 50% when all other parties are included (and even >>>>>then, sometime it is token oposition to get noticed)
But there are individuals with extreme political views; and many >>>>>commentators appear to believe that the number of such extremists has >>>>>increased over the last 10 to 15 years - often due to social media and >>>>>international extremists able to spread their message more widely - >>>>>and in the USA deliberate manipulation (eg Trump campaign).
Some evidence would help, but you were clearly referring to rabid right >>>>politics.
Yes, the politics that is believed / expressed by individuals. You
have a view on politics but claim not to support any particualr party.
I support no political party - do you think I should?
If so, exactly why?
Meanwhile there are no rabid right political parties in NZ. Right?
I was not referring to any political party, but to individuals that
express 'rabid right' political views. See above - I do not claim that
we have extreme political parties. But there are individuals with
extreme political views; and many commentators appear to believe that
the number of such extremists has increased over the last 10 to 15
years. Those are the 'rabid right' I am referring to - they have a
range of objectives, but a common one is to seek to diminish
confidence in any aspect of government.
You need treatment.
For what? Do you not agree that some of the parliamentary protestors >>>>>>>>>were extreme?
Some of Tony's arguments might be considered extreme, but at least >>>>>>>>>>there is a logical basis for them. You on the other hand exhibit >>>>>>>>>>total lack of logic as outlined above.
When you get into a debating hole where you have no logical >>>>>>>>>>justification for your arguments, you fail to recognise the wisdom of >>>>>>>>>>not digging any further, as you did in your post above. Your >>>>>>>>>>continued justification of support for co-governance as defined in the
Water reforms legislation from a past National government is the >>>>>>>>>>clearest example of your flawed logic.
I happen to think that the arrangements brokered by the Crown under >>>>>>>both Michael Cullen and Chris Finlayson were good examles ofthe value >>>>>>>of meeting treaty obligations through sharing a right and obligation >>>>>>>to act in the interests of all of New Zealand through co-governance. >>>>>>Irrelevant - neither of them talked about co-governmance and you have >>>>>>still not shown otherwise. The treaty does not mention it and does not >>>>>>even hint at it - you are pure political garbage encapsulated in one >>>>>>tiny closed mind.
On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 00:22:35 -0000 (UTC), TonySo when you can get your brain working maybe you could explain what that sentence actually means.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 09:10:06 +1300, Tony <LizandTony@orcon.net.nz>
wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 07:50:31 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 07:37:50 +1300, Tony <LizandTony@orcon.net.nz> >>>>>wrote:Yes you did you liar. I choose not to answer something which was not a >>>>question.
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 23:33:09 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 20:22:06 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>>>>wrote:My assertion was and is accurate. You keep talking about rabid or far >>>>>>right in our political parties and yet you have never (that is never >>>>>>ever) provided any evidence.
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 19:56:00 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>>>wrote:Thank you Crash - I quite agree - the assertion by Tony was nonsense; >>>>>>>of course there is a rabid right; and yes in the view of many there is >>>>>>>a rabid left - but currrently commentators regard the rabid right as >>>>>>>being more significant regarding mis - and disinformation, extreme >>>>>>>political statements, irrational assertions etc.
On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 22:16:25 -0800 (PST), John Bowes >>>>>>>>><bowesjohn02@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, January 29, 2023 at 5:55:07 PM UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 15:10:56 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
Whereas the rabid left keeps pushing the same fucking lies! >>>>>>>>>>It may have escaped your notice Rich but finlayson has retired from >>>>>>>>>>politics. Pity you don't :)
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 14:00:33 +1300, Rich80105
<Rich...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 10:31:00 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz> >>>>>>>>>>> >>wrote:
andFinlayson has never spoken of co-governance."We are moving from a regime where historical wrongs are being >>>>>>>>>>> >>>addressed, to a state where one ethnic class has an inherent and >>>>>>>>>>> >>>enduring political status that is based on their ancestry. This >>>>>>>>>>> >>>cannothttps://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/131079029/damien-grant-under-arderns-guidance-we-became-the-nasty-team-of-5-million
end well."
And I am, sadly, of the opinion that it will not end well. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>
There are some clever people manufacturing claims, falsely, that >>>>>>>>>>> >>>co-governance is not new. That is a lie - co-governance is a >>>>>>>>>>> >>>carefully
planned attempt to put most of the power into the hands of a >>>>>>>>>>> >>>minority.
Now is the time Mr Hipkins to put it away for good, but I >>>>>>>>>>> >>>suspect
you
will not.
Did you read the article by Chris Finlayson? Getting other >>>>>>>>>>> >>opinions
ans seeking consensus makes sense . . .
https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/chris-finlayson-co-governance-should-be-embraced-not-feared/
and there are probably others. Why lie when those two links were >>>>>>>>>>> posted very recently?https://www.minterellison.co.nz/insights/co-governance-the-misunderstood-political-hot-potato-and-likely-election-dominator
He supported a smalthey agreed or not, they supported any and all hounding of >>>>>>>>>>>government.
lnumber of co-management matters.
But I see that you cannot adress the content of the article. >>>>>>>>>>> Why would I? It can be summed up by two words "We hounded" >>>>>>>>>>> The rabid right picked up on any discontent and regardless of >>>>>>>>>>>whether
The "Libertarian" stance of Damien Grant is more about his very >>>>>>>>>>>right
wing views on size of government - the changes to firearms laws >>>>>>>>>>>were
largely supported by the National Party. Damien Grant is entitled >>>>>>>>>>>to
his opinion, but those opinions are not shared by a large majority >>>>>>>>>>>of
voters.
According to Tony there is no such thing in our political environment >>>>>>>>>as the "rabid right"; and obviously that means there is no "rabid >>>>>>>>>left".
Are you sane? What insane logic - the presence of 'rabid left' or >>>>>>>>'rabid right' does not have the opposite as a prerequisite. Both can >>>>>>>>be present without the opposite. How can you expect to sustain >>>>>>>>logical argument with nonsense logic like this?
To suggest that there is a rabid left is also not supported by >>>>>>evidence.
In fact the word rabid is somewhat silly in the NZ environment.
You are ill, rude and illiterate.
Don't you dare put words into my mouth you stupid little fart.
Again then according to Tony, your comments are stupid and >>>>>>>>>unnecessarily rude., and once more you trotally fail to address the >>>>>>>>>content - it is an illness.
Tony is of course wrong about our not having extremists - Tony >>>>>>>>>possibly regards the "Victory for Freedom" people that escalated >>>>>>>>>violence at the Parliamentary protests as being just normal people >>>>>>>>>like himself . . .
Mere speculation, Tony; I carefully did not presume to put words in >>>>>your mouth - but I note that you were not prepared to either confirm >>>>>or deny the possibility.
There are no extreme political parties in NZ. SHoiw otherwise or piss >>>>off once more.
I do not claim that we have extreme political parties - sure there are >>>differences, but about 75% of legislation is said to be agreed by
Labur and National (regardless of which is in govenment), and that
still remains over 50% when all other parties are included (and even >>>then, sometime it is token oposition to get noticed)
But there are individuals with extreme political views; and many >>>commentators appear to believe that the number of such extremists has >>>increased over the last 10 to 15 years - often due to social media and >>>international extremists able to spread their message more widely -
and in the USA deliberate manipulation (eg Trump campaign).
Some evidence would help, but you were clearly referring to rabid right >>politics.
Yes, the politics that is believed / expressed by individuals. You
have a view on politics but claim not to support any particualr party.
You need treatment.
For what? Do you not agree that some of the parliamentary protestors >>>>>>>were extreme?
Some of Tony's arguments might be considered extreme, but at least >>>>>>>>there is a logical basis for them. You on the other hand exhibit >>>>>>>>total lack of logic as outlined above.
When you get into a debating hole where you have no logical >>>>>>>>justification for your arguments, you fail to recognise the wisdom of >>>>>>>>not digging any further, as you did in your post above. Your >>>>>>>>continued justification of support for co-governance as defined in the >>>>>>>>Water reforms legislation from a past National government is the >>>>>>>>clearest example of your flawed logic.
I happen to think that the arrangements brokered by the Crown under >>>>>both Michael Cullen and Chris Finlayson were good examles ofthe value >>>>>of meeting treaty obligations through sharing a right and obligation >>>>>to act in the interests of all of New Zealand through co-governance. >>>>Irrelevant - neither of them talked about co-governmance and you have >>>>still not shown otherwise. The treaty does not mention it and does not >>>>even hint at it - you are pure political garbage encapsulated in one >>>>tiny closed mind.
On 2023-01-29, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 23:33:09 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 20:22:06 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>wrote:My comments on your sanity were clearly directed to you. What Tony
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 19:56:00 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>wrote:Thank you Crash - I quite agree - the assertion by Tony was nonsense;
On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 22:16:25 -0800 (PST), John Bowes >>>>><bowesjohn02@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, January 29, 2023 at 5:55:07 PM UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote: >>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 15:10:56 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz> >>>>>>> wrote:
Whereas the rabid left keeps pushing the same fucking lies!
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 14:00:33 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> >>>>>>> >wrote:https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/chris-finlayson-co-governance-should-be-embraced-not-feared/
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 10:31:00 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz> >>>>>>> >>wrote:Finlayson has never spoken of co-governance.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/131079029/damien-grant-under-arderns-guidance-we-became-the-nasty-team-of-5-million
"We are moving from a regime where historical wrongs are being >>>>>>> >>>addressed, to a state where one ethnic class has an inherent and >>>>>>> >>>enduring political status that is based on their ancestry. This cannot
end well."
And I am, sadly, of the opinion that it will not end well.
There are some clever people manufacturing claims, falsely, that >>>>>>> >>>co-governance is not new. That is a lie - co-governance is a carefully
planned attempt to put most of the power into the hands of a minority.
Now is the time Mr Hipkins to put it away for good, but I suspect you
will not.
Did you read the article by Chris Finlayson? Getting other opinions >>>>>>> >>ans seeking consensus makes sense . . .
and
https://www.minterellison.co.nz/insights/co-governance-the-misunderstood-political-hot-potato-and-likely-election-dominator
and there are probably others. Why lie when those two links were >>>>>>> posted very recently?
He supported a smalWhy would I? It can be summed up by two words "We hounded"
lnumber of co-management matters.
But I see that you cannot adress the content of the article.
The rabid right picked up on any discontent and regardless of whether >>>>>>> they agreed or not, they supported any and all hounding of government. >>>>>>> The "Libertarian" stance of Damien Grant is more about his very right >>>>>>> wing views on size of government - the changes to firearms laws were >>>>>>> largely supported by the National Party. Damien Grant is entitled to >>>>>>> his opinion, but those opinions are not shared by a large majority of >>>>>>> voters.
It may have escaped your notice Rich but finlayson has retired from politics. Pity you don't :)
According to Tony there is no such thing in our political environment >>>>>as the "rabid right"; and obviously that means there is no "rabid >>>>>left".
Are you sane? What insane logic - the presence of 'rabid left' or >>>>'rabid right' does not have the opposite as a prerequisite. Both can >>>>be present without the opposite. How can you expect to sustain
logical argument with nonsense logic like this?
of course there is a rabid right; and yes in the view of many there is
a rabid left - but currrently commentators regard the rabid right as >>>being more significant regarding mis - and disinformation, extreme >>>political statements, irrational assertions etc.
may or may not have said is irrelevant. Your contention that we have
'rabid right' political parties is simply nonsensical and dressed up
with emotive overtones. Generally I don't respond to your more
extreme and irrational posts.
I don't know about Tony but the original protesters that marched to
Again then according to Tony, your comments are stupid and >>>>>unnecessarily rude., and once more you trotally fail to address the >>>>>content - it is an illness.
Tony is of course wrong about our not having extremists - Tony >>>>>possibly regards the "Victory for Freedom" people that escalated >>>>>violence at the Parliamentary protests as being just normal people >>>>>like himself . . .
You need treatment.
For what? Do you not agree that some of the parliamentary protestors
were extreme?
Parliament were not extreme unless you consider all anti-government
protestors to be extreme.
https://www.ipca.govt.nz/Site/parliament-protest/
They went there to see the Government, to see the PM, or others about the >Government's processes on the Covid response.
The fact that they got a flat refusal did nothing to help the situation.
There may have been just 100 protestors the first night but there were
many more that marched to Parliament that day - indicating that the
protest was started by many that dispersed peacefully. If the Police
had taken action on day 2 to end the occupation they mayhem that
followed would have been averted.
Had the PM had the responsibility to meet with the protesters it is highly >likely that each side would have made its point and the protesters would
have gone away. Ceratinly the high ground would have no longer been under >their feet.
The actions of those that camped out on the Parliamentary lawn were
way beyond the right to protest. If there is a next time, the Police
should enforce the law and evict the protestors.
The Police, and by inference the government, were made to look
ineffectual.
Some of Tony's arguments might be considered extreme, but at least >>>>there is a logical basis for them. You on the other hand exhibit
total lack of logic as outlined above.
When you get into a debating hole where you have no logical >>>>justification for your arguments, you fail to recognise the wisdom of >>>>not digging any further, as you did in your post above. Your
continued justification of support for co-governance as defined in the >>>>Water reforms legislation from a past National government is the >>>>clearest example of your flawed logic.
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 00:22:35 -0000 (UTC), TonySo when you can get your brain working maybe you could explain what that >sentence actually means.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 09:10:06 +1300, Tony <LizandTony@orcon.net.nz> >>>>wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 07:50:31 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 07:37:50 +1300, Tony <LizandTony@orcon.net.nz> >>>>>>wrote:Yes you did you liar. I choose not to answer something which was not a >>>>>question.
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 23:33:09 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>>wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 20:22:06 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>>>>>wrote:My assertion was and is accurate. You keep talking about rabid or far >>>>>>>right in our political parties and yet you have never (that is never >>>>>>>ever) provided any evidence.
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 19:56:00 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>>>>wrote:Thank you Crash - I quite agree - the assertion by Tony was nonsense; >>>>>>>>of course there is a rabid right; and yes in the view of many there is >>>>>>>>a rabid left - but currrently commentators regard the rabid right as >>>>>>>>being more significant regarding mis - and disinformation, extreme >>>>>>>>political statements, irrational assertions etc.
On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 22:16:25 -0800 (PST), John Bowes >>>>>>>>>><bowesjohn02@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, January 29, 2023 at 5:55:07 PM UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 15:10:56 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
Whereas the rabid left keeps pushing the same fucking lies! >>>>>>>>>>>It may have escaped your notice Rich but finlayson has retired from >>>>>>>>>>>politics. Pity you don't :)
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 14:00:33 +1300, Rich80105
<Rich...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 10:31:00 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>wrote:
andFinlayson has never spoken of co-governance."We are moving from a regime where historical wrongs are being >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>addressed, to a state where one ethnic class has an inherent andhttps://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/131079029/damien-grant-under-arderns-guidance-we-became-the-nasty-team-of-5-million
enduring political status that is based on their ancestry. This >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>cannot
end well."
And I am, sadly, of the opinion that it will not end well. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
There are some clever people manufacturing claims, falsely, that
co-governance is not new. That is a lie - co-governance is a >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>carefully
planned attempt to put most of the power into the hands of a >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>minority.
Now is the time Mr Hipkins to put it away for good, but I >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>suspect
you
will not.
Did you read the article by Chris Finlayson? Getting other >>>>>>>>>>>> >>opinions
ans seeking consensus makes sense . . .
https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/chris-finlayson-co-governance-should-be-embraced-not-feared/
and there are probably others. Why lie when those two links were >>>>>>>>>>>> posted very recently?https://www.minterellison.co.nz/insights/co-governance-the-misunderstood-political-hot-potato-and-likely-election-dominator
He supported a smalthey agreed or not, they supported any and all hounding of >>>>>>>>>>>>government.
lnumber of co-management matters.
But I see that you cannot adress the content of the article. >>>>>>>>>>>> Why would I? It can be summed up by two words "We hounded" >>>>>>>>>>>> The rabid right picked up on any discontent and regardless of >>>>>>>>>>>>whether
The "Libertarian" stance of Damien Grant is more about his very >>>>>>>>>>>>right
wing views on size of government - the changes to firearms laws >>>>>>>>>>>>were
largely supported by the National Party. Damien Grant is entitled >>>>>>>>>>>>to
his opinion, but those opinions are not shared by a large majority >>>>>>>>>>>>of
voters.
According to Tony there is no such thing in our political environment >>>>>>>>>>as the "rabid right"; and obviously that means there is no "rabid >>>>>>>>>>left".
Are you sane? What insane logic - the presence of 'rabid left' or >>>>>>>>>'rabid right' does not have the opposite as a prerequisite. Both can >>>>>>>>>be present without the opposite. How can you expect to sustain >>>>>>>>>logical argument with nonsense logic like this?
To suggest that there is a rabid left is also not supported by >>>>>>>evidence.
In fact the word rabid is somewhat silly in the NZ environment. >>>>>>>You are ill, rude and illiterate.
Don't you dare put words into my mouth you stupid little fart.
Again then according to Tony, your comments are stupid and >>>>>>>>>>unnecessarily rude., and once more you trotally fail to address the >>>>>>>>>>content - it is an illness.
Tony is of course wrong about our not having extremists - Tony >>>>>>>>>>possibly regards the "Victory for Freedom" people that escalated >>>>>>>>>>violence at the Parliamentary protests as being just normal people >>>>>>>>>>like himself . . .
Mere speculation, Tony; I carefully did not presume to put words in >>>>>>your mouth - but I note that you were not prepared to either confirm >>>>>>or deny the possibility.
There are no extreme political parties in NZ. SHoiw otherwise or piss >>>>>off once more.
I do not claim that we have extreme political parties - sure there are >>>>differences, but about 75% of legislation is said to be agreed by >>>>Labour and National (regardless of which is in govenment), and that >>>>still remains over 50% when all other parties are included (and even >>>>then, sometime it is token oposition to get noticed)
But there are individuals with extreme political views; and many >>>>commentators appear to believe that the number of such extremists has >>>>increased over the last 10 to 15 years - often due to social media and >>>>international extremists able to spread their message more widely -
and in the USA deliberate manipulation (eg Trump campaign).
Some evidence would help, but you were clearly referring to rabid right >>>politics.
Yes, the politics that is believed / expressed by individuals. You
have a view on politics but claim not to support any particualr party.
I support no political party - do you think I should?
If so, exactly why?
Meanwhile there are no rabid right political parties in NZ. Right?
You need treatment.
For what? Do you not agree that some of the parliamentary protestors >>>>>>>>were extreme?
Some of Tony's arguments might be considered extreme, but at least >>>>>>>>>there is a logical basis for them. You on the other hand exhibit >>>>>>>>>total lack of logic as outlined above.
When you get into a debating hole where you have no logical >>>>>>>>>justification for your arguments, you fail to recognise the wisdom of >>>>>>>>>not digging any further, as you did in your post above. Your >>>>>>>>>continued justification of support for co-governance as defined in the >>>>>>>>>Water reforms legislation from a past National government is the >>>>>>>>>clearest example of your flawed logic.
I happen to think that the arrangements brokered by the Crown under >>>>>>both Michael Cullen and Chris Finlayson were good examles ofthe value >>>>>>of meeting treaty obligations through sharing a right and obligation >>>>>>to act in the interests of all of New Zealand through co-governance. >>>>>Irrelevant - neither of them talked about co-governmance and you have >>>>>still not shown otherwise. The treaty does not mention it and does not >>>>>even hint at it - you are pure political garbage encapsulated in one >>>>>tiny closed mind.
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:He's probably thinking of the Labour one where they used a guillotine to chop the heads off National ministers...
On 30 Jan 2023 03:12:11 GMT, Gordon <Gor...@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
On 2023-01-29, Crash <nog...@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 23:33:09 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 20:22:06 +1300, Crash <nog...@dontbother.invalid> >>>>wrote:My comments on your sanity were clearly directed to you. What Tony
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 19:56:00 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> >>>>>wrote:Thank you Crash - I quite agree - the assertion by Tony was nonsense; >>>>of course there is a rabid right; and yes in the view of many there is >>>>a rabid left - but currrently commentators regard the rabid right as >>>>being more significant regarding mis - and disinformation, extreme >>>>political statements, irrational assertions etc.
On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 22:16:25 -0800 (PST), John Bowes >>>>>><bowes...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, January 29, 2023 at 5:55:07 PM UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote: >>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 15:10:56 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz> >>>>>>>> wrote:
Whereas the rabid left keeps pushing the same fucking lies!
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 14:00:33 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> >>>>>>>> >wrote:and
On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 10:31:00 +1300, Tony <Lizan...@orcon.net.nz> >>>>>>>> >>wrote:
Finlayson has never spoken of co-governance."We are moving from a regime where historical wrongs are being >>>>>>>> >>>addressed, to a state where one ethnic class has an inherent and >>>>>>>> >>>enduring political status that is based on their ancestry. This >>>>>>>> >>>cannothttps://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/131079029/damien-grant-under-arderns-guidance-we-became-the-nasty-team-of-5-million
end well."
And I am, sadly, of the opinion that it will not end well. >>>>>>>> >>>
There are some clever people manufacturing claims, falsely, that >>>>>>>> >>>co-governance is not new. That is a lie - co-governance is a >>>>>>>> >>>carefully
planned attempt to put most of the power into the hands of a >>>>>>>> >>>minority.
Now is the time Mr Hipkins to put it away for good, but I suspect >>>>>>>> >>>you
will not.
Did you read the article by Chris Finlayson? Getting other opinions
ans seeking consensus makes sense . . .
https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/chris-finlayson-co-governance-should-be-embraced-not-feared/
and there are probably others. Why lie when those two links were >>>>>>>> posted very recently?https://www.minterellison.co.nz/insights/co-governance-the-misunderstood-political-hot-potato-and-likely-election-dominator
He supported a smalThe rabid right picked up on any discontent and regardless of whether
lnumber of co-management matters.
But I see that you cannot adress the content of the article. >>>>>>>> Why would I? It can be summed up by two words "We hounded"
they agreed or not, they supported any and all hounding of government.
The "Libertarian" stance of Damien Grant is more about his very right
wing views on size of government - the changes to firearms laws were >>>>>>>> largely supported by the National Party. Damien Grant is entitled to >>>>>>>> his opinion, but those opinions are not shared by a large majority of
voters.
It may have escaped your notice Rich but finlayson has retired from >>>>>>>politics. Pity you don't :)
According to Tony there is no such thing in our political environment >>>>>>as the "rabid right"; and obviously that means there is no "rabid >>>>>>left".
Are you sane? What insane logic - the presence of 'rabid left' or >>>>>'rabid right' does not have the opposite as a prerequisite. Both can >>>>>be present without the opposite. How can you expect to sustain >>>>>logical argument with nonsense logic like this?
may or may not have said is irrelevant. Your contention that we have
'rabid right' political parties is simply nonsensical and dressed up
with emotive overtones. Generally I don't respond to your more
extreme and irrational posts.
I don't know about Tony but the original protesters that marched to
Again then according to Tony, your comments are stupid and >>>>>>unnecessarily rude., and once more you trotally fail to address the >>>>>>content - it is an illness.
Tony is of course wrong about our not having extremists - Tony >>>>>>possibly regards the "Victory for Freedom" people that escalated >>>>>>violence at the Parliamentary protests as being just normal people >>>>>>like himself . . .
You need treatment.
For what? Do you not agree that some of the parliamentary protestors >>>>were extreme?
Parliament were not extreme unless you consider all anti-government
protestors to be extreme.
https://www.ipca.govt.nz/Site/parliament-protest/
They went there to see the Government, to see the PM, or others about the >>Government's processes on the Covid response.
The fact that they got a flat refusal did nothing to help the situation.
There may have been just 100 protestors the first night but there were >>> many more that marched to Parliament that day - indicating that the
protest was started by many that dispersed peacefully. If the Police
had taken action on day 2 to end the occupation they mayhem that
followed would have been averted.
Had the PM had the responsibility to meet with the protesters it is highly >>likely that each side would have made its point and the protesters would >>have gone away. Ceratinly the high ground would have no longer been under >>their feet.
ou may be talking about a different protest. Fairly early on thereAre you drunk?
were people holding banners calling for Ardern to be hanged. Both
Ardern and Luxon acted responsibly in refusing to allow any of their
MPs to go out among the protestors. Fairly early on there the leader
of a Nazi party being interviewed. Those nice peaceful protestors
forced teh clsure of to secondary schools for girls to close . . .
The parliament protest did start peacefully with people who genuinely wanted to
be heard.
Which protest are you mumbling about?
The actions of those that camped out on the Parliamentary lawn were
way beyond the right to protest. If there is a next time, the Police
should enforce the law and evict the protestors.
The Police, and by inference the government, were made to look
ineffectual.
Some of Tony's arguments might be considered extreme, but at least >>>>>there is a logical basis for them. You on the other hand exhibit >>>>>total lack of logic as outlined above.
When you get into a debating hole where you have no logical >>>>>justification for your arguments, you fail to recognise the wisdom of >>>>>not digging any further, as you did in your post above. Your >>>>>continued justification of support for co-governance as defined in the >>>>>Water reforms legislation from a past National government is the >>>>>clearest example of your flawed logic.
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