Funny how Clark is blaming the country for Ardern's resignation along with social media rather than Ardern's despotic rule over the last five years. I know I've never liked Ardern or her totalitarian brand of politics but if she'd actually shownkindness rather than play acting it I'd have more sympathy for her.
Helen Clark's comments in support of her protege are pure bullshit worthy of Ardern! Ardern brought her plumet in popularity on herself. If she's talked to her river of filth in February and killed 5 waters she might have been in a better position now.But like they say karma sucks when it turns on you and bites you on the arse...
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/helen-clark-calls-for-rethink-on-political-debate-in-wake-of-ardern-resignation/ar-AA16xH7A?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=015089752c5c49d1a593098886ee38b8
On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 22:13:57 -0800 (PST), John Bowes
<bowesjohn02@gmail.com> wrote:
Funny how Clark is blaming the country for Ardern's resignation along with >>social media rather than Ardern's despotic rule over the last five years. I >>know I've never liked Ardern or her totalitarian brand of politics but if she'd
actually shown kindness rather than play acting it I'd have more sympathy for >>her.
Helen Clark's comments in support of her protege are pure bullshit worthy of >>Ardern! Ardern brought her plumet in popularity on herself. If she's talked to
her river of filth in February and killed 5 waters she might have been in a >>better position now. But like they say karma sucks when it turns on you and >>bites you on the arse...
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/helen-clark-calls-for-rethink-on-political-debate-in-wake-of-ardern-resignation/ar-AA16xH7A?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=015089752c5c49d1a593098886ee38b8
I am inclined to accept that currently NZ PMs face increased issues of >security and safety in public appearances because of the emergence of
social media. While the experiences of Clark and Shipley are of
interest, I would be more interested in whether Key faced security
issues akin to Ardern (or not) - not because he is male but because he
is the most significant recent PM before Ardern.
--Crash I agree that social media access is the probable avenue that has resulted in safety concerns for public figures. A worldwide problem of course.
Crash McBash
Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 22:13:57 -0800 (PST), John Bowes >><bowesjohn02@gmail.com> wrote:Crash I agree that social media access is the probable avenue that has resulted
Funny how Clark is blaming the country for Ardern's resignation along with >>>social media rather than Ardern's despotic rule over the last five years. I >>>know I've never liked Ardern or her totalitarian brand of politics but if she'd
actually shown kindness rather than play acting it I'd have more sympathy for
her.
Helen Clark's comments in support of her protege are pure bullshit worthy of >>>Ardern! Ardern brought her plumet in popularity on herself. If she's talked to
her river of filth in February and killed 5 waters she might have been in a >>>better position now. But like they say karma sucks when it turns on you and >>>bites you on the arse...
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/helen-clark-calls-for-rethink-on-political-debate-in-wake-of-ardern-resignation/ar-AA16xH7A?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=015089752c5c49d1a593098886ee38b8
I am inclined to accept that currently NZ PMs face increased issues of >>security and safety in public appearances because of the emergence of >>social media. While the experiences of Clark and Shipley are of
interest, I would be more interested in whether Key faced security
issues akin to Ardern (or not) - not because he is male but because he
is the most significant recent PM before Ardern.
--
Crash McBash
in safety concerns for public figures. A worldwide problem of course.
I do not accept what Helen Clark said; the opprobrium that Ardern has received
is largely self inflicted resulting directly from the decisions her government
has made. The way the criticism has been delivered with threats etc., is totally unacceptable.
I don't know what the answer is apart from catching and prosecuiting the individuals who do that stuff, but I know what isn't appropriate - and that is
limiting freedom of speech or introducing hate laws.
On 2023-01-20, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:I am hopeful that the new PM will step back on a number of levels. Especially co-governance and the other undemocratic moves. But at the very least I hope there will be no hate speech laws.
Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 22:13:57 -0800 (PST), John Bowes >>><bowesjohn02@gmail.com> wrote:Crash I agree that social media access is the probable avenue that has >>resulted
Funny how Clark is blaming the country for Ardern's resignation along with >>>>social media rather than Ardern's despotic rule over the last five years. I >>>>know I've never liked Ardern or her totalitarian brand of politics but if >>>>she'd
actually shown kindness rather than play acting it I'd have more sympathy >>>>for
her.
Helen Clark's comments in support of her protege are pure bullshit worthy >>>>of
Ardern! Ardern brought her plumet in popularity on herself. If she's talked >>>>to
her river of filth in February and killed 5 waters she might have been in a >>>>better position now. But like they say karma sucks when it turns on you and >>>>bites you on the arse...
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/helen-clark-calls-for-rethink-on-political-debate-in-wake-of-ardern-resignation/ar-AA16xH7A?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=015089752c5c49d1a593098886ee38b8
I am inclined to accept that currently NZ PMs face increased issues of >>>security and safety in public appearances because of the emergence of >>>social media. While the experiences of Clark and Shipley are of >>>interest, I would be more interested in whether Key faced security
issues akin to Ardern (or not) - not because he is male but because he
is the most significant recent PM before Ardern.
--
Crash McBash
in safety concerns for public figures. A worldwide problem of course.
I do not accept what Helen Clark said; the opprobrium that Ardern has >>received
is largely self inflicted resulting directly from the decisions her >>government
has made. The way the criticism has been delivered with threats etc., is
totally unacceptable.
I don't know what the answer is apart from catching and prosecuiting the
individuals who do that stuff, but I know what isn't appropriate - and that >>is
limiting freedom of speech or introducing hate laws.
Sure thing Social Media is a new thing and it has some teething problems. It >is technology which is being used in an iresponsible way.
That being the case the Government, for what every reason(s), did not take >into consideration of the changing situation. It just kept on the same >narrative, backed up by increasing force. This leads to a push back buy
those with alternative views and when all that the get in the same narative >with increasing determination. It seems to me that it had become personal
for the Government.
True the Government would have to admit that maybe it was not not correct. >Something very hard for any Government to do.
So the esculation on both sides increased. To get beyond this society needs >to get back to the speakers refraining from going over the edge, and for >others to challange the extreme view point.
Thre is also now evidence that Twitter and Google/you tube, Fackbook/Meta have >filtered out the alternative view points. Twitter has come back thanks to >Elon and the truth continues to "leak" out.
Gordon <Gor...@leaf.net.nz> wrote:Agreed. Hipkins is looking like the new PM and is by some accounts more right wing than most of his colleagues. Hopefully he will be prepared to reign in his sillier cabinet members and common sense will at last prevail in Labours cabinet...
On 2023-01-20, Tony <lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Crash <nog...@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 22:13:57 -0800 (PST), John Bowes >>><bowes...@gmail.com> wrote:Crash I agree that social media access is the probable avenue that has >>resulted
Funny how Clark is blaming the country for Ardern's resignation along with
social media rather than Ardern's despotic rule over the last five years. I
know I've never liked Ardern or her totalitarian brand of politics but if >>>>she'd
actually shown kindness rather than play acting it I'd have more sympathy >>>>for
her.
Helen Clark's comments in support of her protege are pure bullshit worthy >>>>of
Ardern! Ardern brought her plumet in popularity on herself. If she's talked
to
her river of filth in February and killed 5 waters she might have been in a
better position now. But like they say karma sucks when it turns on you and
bites you on the arse...
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/helen-clark-calls-for-rethink-on-political-debate-in-wake-of-ardern-resignation/ar-AA16xH7A?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=015089752c5c49d1a593098886ee38b8
I am inclined to accept that currently NZ PMs face increased issues of >>>security and safety in public appearances because of the emergence of >>>social media. While the experiences of Clark and Shipley are of >>>interest, I would be more interested in whether Key faced security >>>issues akin to Ardern (or not) - not because he is male but because he >>>is the most significant recent PM before Ardern.
--
Crash McBash
in safety concerns for public figures. A worldwide problem of course.
I do not accept what Helen Clark said; the opprobrium that Ardern has >>received
is largely self inflicted resulting directly from the decisions her >>government
has made. The way the criticism has been delivered with threats etc., is >> totally unacceptable.
I don't know what the answer is apart from catching and prosecuiting the >> individuals who do that stuff, but I know what isn't appropriate - and that
is
limiting freedom of speech or introducing hate laws.
Sure thing Social Media is a new thing and it has some teething problems. It >is technology which is being used in an iresponsible way.
That being the case the Government, for what every reason(s), did not take >into consideration of the changing situation. It just kept on the same >narrative, backed up by increasing force. This leads to a push back buy >those with alternative views and when all that the get in the same narative >with increasing determination. It seems to me that it had become personal >for the Government.
True the Government would have to admit that maybe it was not not correct. >Something very hard for any Government to do.
So the esculation on both sides increased. To get beyond this society needs >to get back to the speakers refraining from going over the edge, and for >others to challange the extreme view point.
Thre is also now evidence that Twitter and Google/you tube, Fackbook/Meta haveI am hopeful that the new PM will step back on a number of levels. Especially co-governance and the other undemocratic moves. But at the very least I hope there will be no hate speech laws.
filtered out the alternative view points. Twitter has come back thanks to >Elon and the truth continues to "leak" out.
On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 21:02:00 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
On 2023-01-20, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:I am hopeful that the new PM will step back on a number of levels. Especially >>co-governance and the other undemocratic moves. But at the very least I hope >>there will be no hate speech laws.
Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 22:13:57 -0800 (PST), John Bowes >>>>><bowesjohn02@gmail.com> wrote:Crash I agree that social media access is the probable avenue that has >>>>resulted
Funny how Clark is blaming the country for Ardern's resignation along >>>>>>with
social media rather than Ardern's despotic rule over the last five years. >>>>>>I
know I've never liked Ardern or her totalitarian brand of politics but if >>>>>>she'd
actually shown kindness rather than play acting it I'd have more sympathy >>>>>>for
her.
Helen Clark's comments in support of her protege are pure bullshit worthy >>>>>>of
Ardern! Ardern brought her plumet in popularity on herself. If she's >>>>>>talked
to
her river of filth in February and killed 5 waters she might have been in >>>>>>a
better position now. But like they say karma sucks when it turns on you >>>>>>and
bites you on the arse...
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/helen-clark-calls-for-rethink-on-political-debate-in-wake-of-ardern-resignation/ar-AA16xH7A?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=015089752c5c49d1a593098886ee38b8
I am inclined to accept that currently NZ PMs face increased issues of >>>>>security and safety in public appearances because of the emergence of >>>>>social media. While the experiences of Clark and Shipley are of >>>>>interest, I would be more interested in whether Key faced security >>>>>issues akin to Ardern (or not) - not because he is male but because he >>>>>is the most significant recent PM before Ardern.
--
Crash McBash
in safety concerns for public figures. A worldwide problem of course.
I do not accept what Helen Clark said; the opprobrium that Ardern has >>>>received
is largely self inflicted resulting directly from the decisions her >>>>government
has made. The way the criticism has been delivered with threats etc., is >>>> totally unacceptable.
I don't know what the answer is apart from catching and prosecuiting the >>>> individuals who do that stuff, but I know what isn't appropriate - and >>>>that
is
limiting freedom of speech or introducing hate laws.
Sure thing Social Media is a new thing and it has some teething problems. It >>>is technology which is being used in an iresponsible way.
That being the case the Government, for what every reason(s), did not take >>>into consideration of the changing situation. It just kept on the same >>>narrative, backed up by increasing force. This leads to a push back buy >>>those with alternative views and when all that the get in the same narative >>>with increasing determination. It seems to me that it had become personal >>>for the Government.
True the Government would have to admit that maybe it was not not correct. >>>Something very hard for any Government to do.
So the esculation on both sides increased. To get beyond this society needs >>>to get back to the speakers refraining from going over the edge, and for >>>others to challange the extreme view point.
Thre is also now evidence that Twitter and Google/you tube, Fackbook/Meta >>>have
filtered out the alternative view points. Twitter has come back thanks to >>>Elon and the truth continues to "leak" out.
I can understand that it is very difficult to separate out what is
truly 'hate speech' without unintentionally suppressing free speech
that is not 'hate speech". I would hope though that at some time in
the future this might be achieved.
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
On 2023-01-20, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:I am hopeful that the new PM will step back on a number of levels. Especially >co-governance and the other undemocratic moves. But at the very least I hope >there will be no hate speech laws.
Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 22:13:57 -0800 (PST), John Bowes >>>><bowesjohn02@gmail.com> wrote:Crash I agree that social media access is the probable avenue that has >>>resulted
Funny how Clark is blaming the country for Ardern's resignation along with >>>>>social media rather than Ardern's despotic rule over the last five years. I
know I've never liked Ardern or her totalitarian brand of politics but if >>>>>she'd
actually shown kindness rather than play acting it I'd have more sympathy >>>>>for
her.
Helen Clark's comments in support of her protege are pure bullshit worthy >>>>>of
Ardern! Ardern brought her plumet in popularity on herself. If she's talked
to
her river of filth in February and killed 5 waters she might have been in a
better position now. But like they say karma sucks when it turns on you and
bites you on the arse...
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/helen-clark-calls-for-rethink-on-political-debate-in-wake-of-ardern-resignation/ar-AA16xH7A?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=015089752c5c49d1a593098886ee38b8
I am inclined to accept that currently NZ PMs face increased issues of >>>>security and safety in public appearances because of the emergence of >>>>social media. While the experiences of Clark and Shipley are of >>>>interest, I would be more interested in whether Key faced security >>>>issues akin to Ardern (or not) - not because he is male but because he >>>>is the most significant recent PM before Ardern.
--
Crash McBash
in safety concerns for public figures. A worldwide problem of course.
I do not accept what Helen Clark said; the opprobrium that Ardern has >>>received
is largely self inflicted resulting directly from the decisions her >>>government
has made. The way the criticism has been delivered with threats etc., is >>> totally unacceptable.
I don't know what the answer is apart from catching and prosecuiting the >>> individuals who do that stuff, but I know what isn't appropriate - and that >>>is
limiting freedom of speech or introducing hate laws.
Sure thing Social Media is a new thing and it has some teething problems. It >>is technology which is being used in an iresponsible way.
That being the case the Government, for what every reason(s), did not take >>into consideration of the changing situation. It just kept on the same >>narrative, backed up by increasing force. This leads to a push back buy >>those with alternative views and when all that the get in the same narative >>with increasing determination. It seems to me that it had become personal >>for the Government.
True the Government would have to admit that maybe it was not not correct. >>Something very hard for any Government to do.
So the esculation on both sides increased. To get beyond this society needs >>to get back to the speakers refraining from going over the edge, and for >>others to challange the extreme view point.
Thre is also now evidence that Twitter and Google/you tube, Fackbook/Meta have
filtered out the alternative view points. Twitter has come back thanks to >>Elon and the truth continues to "leak" out.
Funny how Clark is blaming the country for Ardern's resignation along with social media rather than Ardern's despotic rule over the last five years. I know I've never liked Ardern or her totalitarian brand of politics but if she'd actually shownkindness rather than play acting it I'd have more sympathy for her.
Helen Clark's comments in support of her protege are pure bullshit worthy of Ardern! Ardern brought her plumet in popularity on herself. If she's talked to her river of filth in February and killed 5 waters she might have been in a better position now.But like they say karma sucks when it turns on you and bites you on the arse...
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/helen-clark-calls-for-rethink-on-political-debate-in-wake-of-ardern-resignation/ar-AA16xH7A?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=015089752c5c49d1a593098886ee38b8
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:The attack on personalities was entirely by those with ''alternative
On 2023-01-20, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 22:13:57 -0800 (PST), John Bowes >>>><bowesjohn02@gmail.com> wrote:Crash I agree that social media access is the probable avenue that has >>>resulted
Funny how Clark is blaming the country for Ardern's resignation along with >>>>>social media rather than Ardern's despotic rule over the last five years. I
know I've never liked Ardern or her totalitarian brand of politics but if >>>>>she'd
actually shown kindness rather than play acting it I'd have more sympathy >>>>>for
her.
Helen Clark's comments in support of her protege are pure bullshit worthy >>>>>of
Ardern! Ardern brought her plumet in popularity on herself. If she's talked
to
her river of filth in February and killed 5 waters she might have been in a
better position now. But like they say karma sucks when it turns on you and
bites you on the arse...
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/helen-clark-calls-for-rethink-on-political-debate-in-wake-of-ardern-resignation/ar-AA16xH7A?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=015089752c5c49d1a593098886ee38b8
I am inclined to accept that currently NZ PMs face increased issues of >>>>security and safety in public appearances because of the emergence of >>>>social media. While the experiences of Clark and Shipley are of >>>>interest, I would be more interested in whether Key faced security >>>>issues akin to Ardern (or not) - not because he is male but because he >>>>is the most significant recent PM before Ardern.
--
Crash McBash
in safety concerns for public figures. A worldwide problem of course.
I do not accept what Helen Clark said; the opprobrium that Ardern has >>>received
is largely self inflicted resulting directly from the decisions her >>>government
has made. The way the criticism has been delivered with threats etc., is >>> totally unacceptable.
I don't know what the answer is apart from catching and prosecuiting the >>> individuals who do that stuff, but I know what isn't appropriate - and that >>>is
limiting freedom of speech or introducing hate laws.
Sure thing Social Media is a new thing and it has some teething problems. It >>is technology which is being used in an iresponsible way.
That being the case the Government, for what every reason(s), did not take >>into consideration of the changing situation. It just kept on the same >>narrative, backed up by increasing force. This leads to a push back buy >>those with alternative views and when all that the get in the same narative >>with increasing determination. It seems to me that it had become personal >>for the Government.
I am hopeful that the new PM will step back on a number of levels. Especially >co-governance and the other undemocratic moves. But at the very least I hope >there will be no hate speech laws.
True the Government would have to admit that maybe it was not not correct. >>Something very hard for any Government to do.
So the esculation on both sides increased. To get beyond this society needs >>to get back to the speakers refraining from going over the edge, and for >>others to challange the extreme view point.
Thre is also now evidence that Twitter and Google/you tube, Fackbook/Meta have
filtered out the alternative view points. Twitter has come back thanks to >>Elon and the truth continues to "leak" out.
On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 21:02:00 -0000 (UTC), TonyI did not write that - do reply to the author and stop being so lazy.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:The attack on personalities was entirely by those with ''alternative
On 2023-01-20, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 22:13:57 -0800 (PST), John Bowes >>>>><bowesjohn02@gmail.com> wrote:Crash I agree that social media access is the probable avenue that has >>>>resulted
Funny how Clark is blaming the country for Ardern's resignation along >>>>>>with
social media rather than Ardern's despotic rule over the last five years. >>>>>>I
know I've never liked Ardern or her totalitarian brand of politics but if >>>>>>she'd
actually shown kindness rather than play acting it I'd have more sympathy >>>>>>for
her.
Helen Clark's comments in support of her protege are pure bullshit worthy >>>>>>of
Ardern! Ardern brought her plumet in popularity on herself. If she's >>>>>>talked
to
her river of filth in February and killed 5 waters she might have been in >>>>>>a
better position now. But like they say karma sucks when it turns on you >>>>>>and
bites you on the arse...
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/helen-clark-calls-for-rethink-on-political-debate-in-wake-of-ardern-resignation/ar-AA16xH7A?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=015089752c5c49d1a593098886ee38b8
I am inclined to accept that currently NZ PMs face increased issues of >>>>>security and safety in public appearances because of the emergence of >>>>>social media. While the experiences of Clark and Shipley are of >>>>>interest, I would be more interested in whether Key faced security >>>>>issues akin to Ardern (or not) - not because he is male but because he >>>>>is the most significant recent PM before Ardern.
--
Crash McBash
in safety concerns for public figures. A worldwide problem of course.
I do not accept what Helen Clark said; the opprobrium that Ardern has >>>>received
is largely self inflicted resulting directly from the decisions her >>>>government
has made. The way the criticism has been delivered with threats etc., is >>>> totally unacceptable.
I don't know what the answer is apart from catching and prosecuiting the >>>> individuals who do that stuff, but I know what isn't appropriate - and >>>>that
is
limiting freedom of speech or introducing hate laws.
Sure thing Social Media is a new thing and it has some teething problems. It >>>is technology which is being used in an iresponsible way.
That being the case the Government, for what every reason(s), did not take >>>into consideration of the changing situation. It just kept on the same >>>narrative, backed up by increasing force. This leads to a push back buy >>>those with alternative views and when all that the get in the same narative >>>with increasing determination. It seems to me that it had become personal >>>for the Government.
views'' that have been attacking Jacinda Ardern personally - and that >includes many posts to nz.general. Bizarrely for those complaining
about the current government, Opposition MPs have largely agreed with >decisions made by government, but complained that they had rushed
decisions or that they should have acted earlier, or spent a bit more
. . .Finlayson did not make any co-governance arrangements. Provide a cite or piss off.
I am hopeful that the new PM will step back on a number of levels. Especially >>co-governance and the other undemocratic moves. But at the very least I hope >>there will be no hate speech laws.
True the Government would have to admit that maybe it was not not correct. >>>Something very hard for any Government to do.
So the esculation on both sides increased. To get beyond this society needs >>>to get back to the speakers refraining from going over the edge, and for >>>others to challange the extreme view point.
Thre is also now evidence that Twitter and Google/you tube, Fackbook/Meta >>>have
filtered out the alternative view points. Twitter has come back thanks to >>>Elon and the truth continues to "leak" out.
There is little chance of unwinding the excellent co-governance
arrangements implemented by Chris Finlayson - there is nothing
undemocratic about acknowledging and acting in accordance with binding >contracts, Tony.
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:Rich as usual can't provide a cite to support this lie because like so many of his claims there isn't one. Typical of serial liars with no comprehension skills like Rich...
On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 21:02:00 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
I did not write that - do reply to the author and stop being so lazy.Gordon <Gor...@leaf.net.nz> wrote:The attack on personalities was entirely by those with ''alternative >views'' that have been attacking Jacinda Ardern personally - and that >includes many posts to nz.general. Bizarrely for those complaining
On 2023-01-20, Tony <lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Crash <nog...@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 22:13:57 -0800 (PST), John Bowes >>>>><bowes...@gmail.com> wrote:Crash I agree that social media access is the probable avenue that has >>>>resulted
Funny how Clark is blaming the country for Ardern's resignation along >>>>>>with
social media rather than Ardern's despotic rule over the last five years.
I
know I've never liked Ardern or her totalitarian brand of politics but if
she'd
actually shown kindness rather than play acting it I'd have more sympathy
for
her.
Helen Clark's comments in support of her protege are pure bullshit worthy
of
Ardern! Ardern brought her plumet in popularity on herself. If she's >>>>>>talked
to
her river of filth in February and killed 5 waters she might have been in
a
better position now. But like they say karma sucks when it turns on you >>>>>>and
bites you on the arse...
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/helen-clark-calls-for-rethink-on-political-debate-in-wake-of-ardern-resignation/ar-AA16xH7A?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=015089752c5c49d1a593098886ee38b8
I am inclined to accept that currently NZ PMs face increased issues of >>>>>security and safety in public appearances because of the emergence of >>>>>social media. While the experiences of Clark and Shipley are of >>>>>interest, I would be more interested in whether Key faced security >>>>>issues akin to Ardern (or not) - not because he is male but because he >>>>>is the most significant recent PM before Ardern.
--
Crash McBash
in safety concerns for public figures. A worldwide problem of course. >>>> I do not accept what Helen Clark said; the opprobrium that Ardern has >>>>received
is largely self inflicted resulting directly from the decisions her >>>>government
has made. The way the criticism has been delivered with threats etc., is >>>> totally unacceptable.
I don't know what the answer is apart from catching and prosecuiting the >>>> individuals who do that stuff, but I know what isn't appropriate - and >>>>that
is
limiting freedom of speech or introducing hate laws.
Sure thing Social Media is a new thing and it has some teething problems. It
is technology which is being used in an iresponsible way.
That being the case the Government, for what every reason(s), did not take >>>into consideration of the changing situation. It just kept on the same >>>narrative, backed up by increasing force. This leads to a push back buy >>>those with alternative views and when all that the get in the same narative
with increasing determination. It seems to me that it had become personal >>>for the Government.
about the current government, Opposition MPs have largely agreed with >decisions made by government, but complained that they had rushed
decisions or that they should have acted earlier, or spent a bit more
. . .
I am hopeful that the new PM will step back on a number of levels. Especially
True the Government would have to admit that maybe it was not not correct. >>>Something very hard for any Government to do.
So the esculation on both sides increased. To get beyond this society needs
to get back to the speakers refraining from going over the edge, and for >>>others to challange the extreme view point.
Thre is also now evidence that Twitter and Google/you tube, Fackbook/Meta >>>have
filtered out the alternative view points. Twitter has come back thanks to >>>Elon and the truth continues to "leak" out.
co-governance and the other undemocratic moves. But at the very least I hope
there will be no hate speech laws.
There is little chance of unwinding the excellent co-governance >arrangements implemented by Chris Finlayson - there is nothingFinlayson did not make any co-governance arrangements. Provide a cite or piss off.
undemocratic about acknowledging and acting in accordance with binding >contracts, Tony.
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:I apologise for not recognising that you do not have normal competence
On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 21:02:00 -0000 (UTC), TonyI did not write that - do reply to the author and stop being so lazy.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:The attack on personalities was entirely by those with ''alternative >>views'' that have been attacking Jacinda Ardern personally - and that >>includes many posts to nz.general. Bizarrely for those complaining
On 2023-01-20, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 22:13:57 -0800 (PST), John Bowes >>>>>><bowesjohn02@gmail.com> wrote:Crash I agree that social media access is the probable avenue that has >>>>>resulted
Funny how Clark is blaming the country for Ardern's resignation along >>>>>>>with
social media rather than Ardern's despotic rule over the last five years.
I
know I've never liked Ardern or her totalitarian brand of politics but if
she'd
actually shown kindness rather than play acting it I'd have more sympathy
for
her.
Helen Clark's comments in support of her protege are pure bullshit worthy
of
Ardern! Ardern brought her plumet in popularity on herself. If she's >>>>>>>talked
to
her river of filth in February and killed 5 waters she might have been in
a
better position now. But like they say karma sucks when it turns on you >>>>>>>and
bites you on the arse...
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/helen-clark-calls-for-rethink-on-political-debate-in-wake-of-ardern-resignation/ar-AA16xH7A?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=015089752c5c49d1a593098886ee38b8
I am inclined to accept that currently NZ PMs face increased issues of >>>>>>security and safety in public appearances because of the emergence of >>>>>>social media. While the experiences of Clark and Shipley are of >>>>>>interest, I would be more interested in whether Key faced security >>>>>>issues akin to Ardern (or not) - not because he is male but because he >>>>>>is the most significant recent PM before Ardern.
--
Crash McBash
in safety concerns for public figures. A worldwide problem of course. >>>>> I do not accept what Helen Clark said; the opprobrium that Ardern has >>>>>received
is largely self inflicted resulting directly from the decisions her >>>>>government
has made. The way the criticism has been delivered with threats etc., is >>>>> totally unacceptable.
I don't know what the answer is apart from catching and prosecuiting the >>>>> individuals who do that stuff, but I know what isn't appropriate - and >>>>>that
is
limiting freedom of speech or introducing hate laws.
Sure thing Social Media is a new thing and it has some teething problems. It
is technology which is being used in an iresponsible way.
That being the case the Government, for what every reason(s), did not take >>>>into consideration of the changing situation. It just kept on the same >>>>narrative, backed up by increasing force. This leads to a push back buy >>>>those with alternative views and when all that the get in the same narative >>>>with increasing determination. It seems to me that it had become personal >>>>for the Government.
about the current government, Opposition MPs have largely agreed with >>decisions made by government, but complained that they had rushed
decisions or that they should have acted earlier, or spent a bit more
https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/chris-finlayson-co-governance-should-be-embraced-not-feared/. . .Finlayson did not make any co-governance arrangements. Provide a cite or piss >off. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/national-dilemma-chris-finlayson-on-co-governance-education-and-frankly-hopeless-politicians/LPGZDX32PPUKFAVT6LPKJUCMQE/
I am hopeful that the new PM will step back on a number of levels. Especially
True the Government would have to admit that maybe it was not not correct. >>>>Something very hard for any Government to do.
So the esculation on both sides increased. To get beyond this society needs >>>>to get back to the speakers refraining from going over the edge, and for >>>>others to challange the extreme view point.
Thre is also now evidence that Twitter and Google/you tube, Fackbook/Meta >>>>have
filtered out the alternative view points. Twitter has come back thanks to >>>>Elon and the truth continues to "leak" out.
co-governance and the other undemocratic moves. But at the very least I hope >>>there will be no hate speech laws.
There is little chance of unwinding the excellent co-governance >>arrangements implemented by Chris Finlayson - there is nothing
undemocratic about acknowledging and acting in accordance with binding >>contracts, Tony.
On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 03:04:33 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:I apologise for not recognising that you do not have normal competence
On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 21:02:00 -0000 (UTC), TonyI did not write that - do reply to the author and stop being so lazy.
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Gordon <Gor...@leaf.net.nz> wrote:The attack on personalities was entirely by those with ''alternative >>views'' that have been attacking Jacinda Ardern personally - and that >>includes many posts to nz.general. Bizarrely for those complaining
On 2023-01-20, Tony <lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Crash <nog...@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 22:13:57 -0800 (PST), John Bowes >>>>>><bowes...@gmail.com> wrote:Crash I agree that social media access is the probable avenue that has >>>>>resulted
Funny how Clark is blaming the country for Ardern's resignation along >>>>>>>with
social media rather than Ardern's despotic rule over the last five years.
I
know I've never liked Ardern or her totalitarian brand of politics but if
she'd
actually shown kindness rather than play acting it I'd have more sympathy
for
her.
Helen Clark's comments in support of her protege are pure bullshit worthy
of
Ardern! Ardern brought her plumet in popularity on herself. If she's >>>>>>>talked
to
her river of filth in February and killed 5 waters she might have been in
a
better position now. But like they say karma sucks when it turns on you
and
bites you on the arse...
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/helen-clark-calls-for-rethink-on-political-debate-in-wake-of-ardern-resignation/ar-AA16xH7A?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=015089752c5c49d1a593098886ee38b8
I am inclined to accept that currently NZ PMs face increased issues of >>>>>>security and safety in public appearances because of the emergence of >>>>>>social media. While the experiences of Clark and Shipley are of >>>>>>interest, I would be more interested in whether Key faced security >>>>>>issues akin to Ardern (or not) - not because he is male but because he >>>>>>is the most significant recent PM before Ardern.
--
Crash McBash
in safety concerns for public figures. A worldwide problem of course. >>>>> I do not accept what Helen Clark said; the opprobrium that Ardern has >>>>>received
is largely self inflicted resulting directly from the decisions her >>>>>government
has made. The way the criticism has been delivered with threats etc., is
totally unacceptable.
I don't know what the answer is apart from catching and prosecuiting the
individuals who do that stuff, but I know what isn't appropriate - and >>>>>that
is
limiting freedom of speech or introducing hate laws.
Sure thing Social Media is a new thing and it has some teething problems. It
is technology which is being used in an iresponsible way.
That being the case the Government, for what every reason(s), did not take
into consideration of the changing situation. It just kept on the same >>>>narrative, backed up by increasing force. This leads to a push back buy >>>>those with alternative views and when all that the get in the same narative
with increasing determination. It seems to me that it had become personal >>>>for the Government.
about the current government, Opposition MPs have largely agreed with >>decisions made by government, but complained that they had rushed >>decisions or that they should have acted earlier, or spent a bit more
to track different posters in a thread . . .
https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/chris-finlayson-co-governance-should-be-embraced-not-feared/. . .Finlayson did not make any co-governance arrangements. Provide a cite or piss
I am hopeful that the new PM will step back on a number of levels. Especially
True the Government would have to admit that maybe it was not not correct.
Something very hard for any Government to do.
So the esculation on both sides increased. To get beyond this society needs
to get back to the speakers refraining from going over the edge, and for >>>>others to challange the extreme view point.
Thre is also now evidence that Twitter and Google/you tube, Fackbook/Meta >>>>have
filtered out the alternative view points. Twitter has come back thanks to >>>>Elon and the truth continues to "leak" out.
co-governance and the other undemocratic moves. But at the very least I hope
there will be no hate speech laws.
There is little chance of unwinding the excellent co-governance >>arrangements implemented by Chris Finlayson - there is nothing >>undemocratic about acknowledging and acting in accordance with binding >>contracts, Tony.
off. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/national-dilemma-chris-finlayson-on-co-governance-education-and-frankly-hopeless-politicians/LPGZDX32PPUKFAVT6LPKJUCMQE/
https://www.minterellison.co.nz/insights/co-governance-the-misunderstood-political-hot-potato-and-likely-election-dominator
https://www.bankside.co.nz/post/politics-law-competence-and-co-governance-an-interview-with-hon-christopher-finlayson-qc
https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/the-detail/story/2018841355/co-governance-time-to-get-on-with-it
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/wellington/wellington-mornings-with-nick-mills/audio/chris-finlayson-reacts-to-acts-anti-co-governance-proposals/
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/podcast-the-detail/co-governance-time-to-get-on-with-it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oolzKqJjY7w&ab_channel=NZQandATVNZ https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/05/experts-explain-what-co-governance-is-and-why-new-zealanders-shouldn-t-be-afraid-of-it.html
and one that does not have a lot of Finlayson https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/08/11/explainer-what-is-co-governance/
It is sad that you could not have found a few of these for yourself -
try using Google sometime . . .
On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 03:04:33 -0000 (UTC), TonyYou are just lazy. My competence in all things except lying eclipses yours.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:I apologise for not recognising that you do not have normal competence
On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 21:02:00 -0000 (UTC), TonyI did not write that - do reply to the author and stop being so lazy.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:The attack on personalities was entirely by those with ''alternative >>>views'' that have been attacking Jacinda Ardern personally - and that >>>includes many posts to nz.general. Bizarrely for those complaining
On 2023-01-20, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 22:13:57 -0800 (PST), John Bowes >>>>>>><bowesjohn02@gmail.com> wrote:Crash I agree that social media access is the probable avenue that has >>>>>>resulted
Funny how Clark is blaming the country for Ardern's resignation along >>>>>>>>with
social media rather than Ardern's despotic rule over the last five >>>>>>>>years.
I
know I've never liked Ardern or her totalitarian brand of politics but >>>>>>>>if
she'd
actually shown kindness rather than play acting it I'd have more >>>>>>>>sympathy
for
her.
Helen Clark's comments in support of her protege are pure bullshit >>>>>>>>worthy
of
Ardern! Ardern brought her plumet in popularity on herself. If she's >>>>>>>>talked
to
her river of filth in February and killed 5 waters she might have been >>>>>>>>in
a
better position now. But like they say karma sucks when it turns on you >>>>>>>>and
bites you on the arse...
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/helen-clark-calls-for-rethink-on-political-debate-in-wake-of-ardern-resignation/ar-AA16xH7A?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=015089752c5c49d1a593098886ee38b8
I am inclined to accept that currently NZ PMs face increased issues of >>>>>>>security and safety in public appearances because of the emergence of >>>>>>>social media. While the experiences of Clark and Shipley are of >>>>>>>interest, I would be more interested in whether Key faced security >>>>>>>issues akin to Ardern (or not) - not because he is male but because he >>>>>>>is the most significant recent PM before Ardern.
--
Crash McBash
in safety concerns for public figures. A worldwide problem of course. >>>>>> I do not accept what Helen Clark said; the opprobrium that Ardern has >>>>>>received
is largely self inflicted resulting directly from the decisions her >>>>>>government
has made. The way the criticism has been delivered with threats etc., is >>>>>> totally unacceptable.
I don't know what the answer is apart from catching and prosecuiting the >>>>>> individuals who do that stuff, but I know what isn't appropriate - and >>>>>>that
is
limiting freedom of speech or introducing hate laws.
Sure thing Social Media is a new thing and it has some teething problems. >>>>>It
is technology which is being used in an iresponsible way.
That being the case the Government, for what every reason(s), did not take >>>>>into consideration of the changing situation. It just kept on the same >>>>>narrative, backed up by increasing force. This leads to a push back buy >>>>>those with alternative views and when all that the get in the same narative
with increasing determination. It seems to me that it had become personal >>>>>for the Government.
about the current government, Opposition MPs have largely agreed with >>>decisions made by government, but complained that they had rushed >>>decisions or that they should have acted earlier, or spent a bit more
to track different posters in a thread . . .
Not sad at all - none of them are co-governance.https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/chris-finlayson-co-governance-should-be-embraced-not-feared/. . .Finlayson did not make any co-governance arrangements. Provide a cite or piss >>off. >https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/national-dilemma-chris-finlayson-on-co-governance-education-and-frankly-hopeless-politicians/LPGZDX32PPUKFAVT6LPKJUCMQE/
I am hopeful that the new PM will step back on a number of levels. >>>>Especially
True the Government would have to admit that maybe it was not not correct. >>>>>Something very hard for any Government to do.
So the esculation on both sides increased. To get beyond this society needs
to get back to the speakers refraining from going over the edge, and for >>>>>others to challange the extreme view point.
Thre is also now evidence that Twitter and Google/you tube, Fackbook/Meta >>>>>have
filtered out the alternative view points. Twitter has come back thanks to >>>>>Elon and the truth continues to "leak" out.
co-governance and the other undemocratic moves. But at the very least I >>>>hope
there will be no hate speech laws.
There is little chance of unwinding the excellent co-governance >>>arrangements implemented by Chris Finlayson - there is nothing >>>undemocratic about acknowledging and acting in accordance with binding >>>contracts, Tony.
https://www.minterellison.co.nz/insights/co-governance-the-misunderstood-political-hot-potato-and-likely-election-dominator
https://www.bankside.co.nz/post/politics-law-competence-and-co-governance-an-interview-with-hon-christopher-finlayson-qc
https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/the-detail/story/2018841355/co-governance-time-to-get-on-with-it
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/wellington/wellington-mornings-with-nick-mills/audio/chris-finlayson-reacts-to-acts-anti-co-governance-proposals/
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/podcast-the-detail/co-governance-time-to-get-on-with-it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oolzKqJjY7w&ab_channel=NZQandATVNZ >https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/05/experts-explain-what-co-governance-is-and-why-new-zealanders-shouldn-t-be-afraid-of-it.html
and one that does not have a lot of Finlayson >https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/08/11/explainer-what-is-co-governance/
It is sad that you could not have found a few of these for yourself -
try using Google sometime . . .
On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 19:25:38 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 03:04:33 -0000 (UTC), TonyYou are just lazy. My competence in all things except lying eclipses yours. >>>
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:I apologise for not recognising that you do not have normal competence
On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 21:02:00 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:The attack on personalities was entirely by those with ''alternative >>>>>views'' that have been attacking Jacinda Ardern personally - and that >>>>>includes many posts to nz.general. Bizarrely for those complaining >>>>>about the current government, Opposition MPs have largely agreed with >>>>>decisions made by government, but complained that they had rushed >>>>>decisions or that they should have acted earlier, or spent a bit more >>>>I did not write that - do reply to the author and stop being so lazy.
On 2023-01-20, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 22:13:57 -0800 (PST), John Bowes >>>>>>>>><bowesjohn02@gmail.com> wrote:Crash I agree that social media access is the probable avenue that has >>>>>>>>resulted
Funny how Clark is blaming the country for Ardern's resignation along >>>>>>>>>>with
social media rather than Ardern's despotic rule over the last five >>>>>>>>>>years.
I
know I've never liked Ardern or her totalitarian brand of politics >>>>>>>>>>but
if
she'd
actually shown kindness rather than play acting it I'd have more >>>>>>>>>>sympathy
for
her.
Helen Clark's comments in support of her protege are pure bullshit >>>>>>>>>>worthy
of
Ardern! Ardern brought her plumet in popularity on herself. If she's >>>>>>>>>>talked
to
her river of filth in February and killed 5 waters she might have >>>>>>>>>>been
in
a
better position now. But like they say karma sucks when it turns on >>>>>>>>>>you
and
bites you on the arse...
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/helen-clark-calls-for-rethink-on-political-debate-in-wake-of-ardern-resignation/ar-AA16xH7A?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=015089752c5c49d1a593098886ee38b8
I am inclined to accept that currently NZ PMs face increased issues of >>>>>>>>>security and safety in public appearances because of the emergence of >>>>>>>>>social media. While the experiences of Clark and Shipley are of >>>>>>>>>interest, I would be more interested in whether Key faced security >>>>>>>>>issues akin to Ardern (or not) - not because he is male but because he >>>>>>>>>is the most significant recent PM before Ardern.
--
Crash McBash
in safety concerns for public figures. A worldwide problem of course. >>>>>>>> I do not accept what Helen Clark said; the opprobrium that Ardern has >>>>>>>>received
is largely self inflicted resulting directly from the decisions her >>>>>>>>government
has made. The way the criticism has been delivered with threats etc., >>>>>>>>is
totally unacceptable.
I don't know what the answer is apart from catching and prosecuiting >>>>>>>>the
individuals who do that stuff, but I know what isn't appropriate - and >>>>>>>>that
is
limiting freedom of speech or introducing hate laws.
Sure thing Social Media is a new thing and it has some teething >>>>>>>problems.
It
is technology which is being used in an iresponsible way.
That being the case the Government, for what every reason(s), did not >>>>>>>take
into consideration of the changing situation. It just kept on the same >>>>>>>narrative, backed up by increasing force. This leads to a push back buy >>>>>>>those with alternative views and when all that the get in the same >>>>>>>narative
with increasing determination. It seems to me that it had become personal
for the Government.
to track different posters in a thread . . .
Not sad at all - none of them are co-governance.https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/chris-finlayson-co-governance-should-be-embraced-not-feared/. . .Finlayson did not make any co-governance arrangements. Provide a cite or >>>>piss
I am hopeful that the new PM will step back on a number of levels. >>>>>>Especially
True the Government would have to admit that maybe it was not not >>>>>>>correct.
Something very hard for any Government to do.
So the esculation on both sides increased. To get beyond this society >>>>>>>needs
to get back to the speakers refraining from going over the edge, and for >>>>>>>others to challange the extreme view point.
Thre is also now evidence that Twitter and Google/you tube, >>>>>>>Fackbook/Meta
have
filtered out the alternative view points. Twitter has come back thanks >>>>>>>to
Elon and the truth continues to "leak" out.
co-governance and the other undemocratic moves. But at the very least I >>>>>>hope
there will be no hate speech laws.
There is little chance of unwinding the excellent co-governance >>>>>arrangements implemented by Chris Finlayson - there is nothing >>>>>undemocratic about acknowledging and acting in accordance with binding >>>>>contracts, Tony.
off. >>>https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/national-dilemma-chris-finlayson-on-co-governance-education-and-frankly-hopeless-politicians/LPGZDX32PPUKFAVT6LPKJUCMQE/
https://www.minterellison.co.nz/insights/co-governance-the-misunderstood-political-hot-potato-and-likely-election-dominator
https://www.bankside.co.nz/post/politics-law-competence-and-co-governance-an-interview-with-hon-christopher-finlayson-qc
https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/the-detail/story/2018841355/co-governance-time-to-get-on-with-it
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/wellington/wellington-mornings-with-nick-mills/audio/chris-finlayson-reacts-to-acts-anti-co-governance-proposals/
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/podcast-the-detail/co-governance-time-to-get-on-with-it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oolzKqJjY7w&ab_channel=NZQandATVNZ >>>https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/05/experts-explain-what-co-governance-is-and-why-new-zealanders-shouldn-t-be-afraid-of-it.html
and one that does not have a lot of Finlayson >>>https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/08/11/explainer-what-is-co-governance/
It is sad that you could not have found a few of these for yourself -
try using Google sometime . . .
They are co-management.
We have explained that to you several times but it clearly does not stick. >>I have also pointed out to you before that you so often have failed to >>understand the profound difference between management and governance. A >>distinction the authors also fail to understand.
I am however delighted that you spent all that time finding worthless URLs.
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 03:04:33 -0000 (UTC), TonyYou are just lazy. My competence in all things except lying eclipses yours.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:I apologise for not recognising that you do not have normal competence
On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 21:02:00 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:I did not write that - do reply to the author and stop being so lazy.
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:The attack on personalities was entirely by those with ''alternative >>>>views'' that have been attacking Jacinda Ardern personally - and that >>>>includes many posts to nz.general. Bizarrely for those complaining >>>>about the current government, Opposition MPs have largely agreed with >>>>decisions made by government, but complained that they had rushed >>>>decisions or that they should have acted earlier, or spent a bit more
On 2023-01-20, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 22:13:57 -0800 (PST), John Bowes >>>>>>>><bowesjohn02@gmail.com> wrote:Crash I agree that social media access is the probable avenue that has >>>>>>>resulted
Funny how Clark is blaming the country for Ardern's resignation along >>>>>>>>>with
social media rather than Ardern's despotic rule over the last five >>>>>>>>>years.
I
know I've never liked Ardern or her totalitarian brand of politics but >>>>>>>>>if
she'd
actually shown kindness rather than play acting it I'd have more >>>>>>>>>sympathy
for
her.
Helen Clark's comments in support of her protege are pure bullshit >>>>>>>>>worthy
of
Ardern! Ardern brought her plumet in popularity on herself. If she's >>>>>>>>>talked
to
her river of filth in February and killed 5 waters she might have been >>>>>>>>>in
a
better position now. But like they say karma sucks when it turns on you
and
bites you on the arse...
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/helen-clark-calls-for-rethink-on-political-debate-in-wake-of-ardern-resignation/ar-AA16xH7A?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=015089752c5c49d1a593098886ee38b8
I am inclined to accept that currently NZ PMs face increased issues of >>>>>>>>security and safety in public appearances because of the emergence of >>>>>>>>social media. While the experiences of Clark and Shipley are of >>>>>>>>interest, I would be more interested in whether Key faced security >>>>>>>>issues akin to Ardern (or not) - not because he is male but because he >>>>>>>>is the most significant recent PM before Ardern.
--
Crash McBash
in safety concerns for public figures. A worldwide problem of course. >>>>>>> I do not accept what Helen Clark said; the opprobrium that Ardern has >>>>>>>received
is largely self inflicted resulting directly from the decisions her >>>>>>>government
has made. The way the criticism has been delivered with threats etc., is
totally unacceptable.
I don't know what the answer is apart from catching and prosecuiting the
individuals who do that stuff, but I know what isn't appropriate - and >>>>>>>that
is
limiting freedom of speech or introducing hate laws.
Sure thing Social Media is a new thing and it has some teething problems. >>>>>>It
is technology which is being used in an iresponsible way.
That being the case the Government, for what every reason(s), did not take
into consideration of the changing situation. It just kept on the same >>>>>>narrative, backed up by increasing force. This leads to a push back buy >>>>>>those with alternative views and when all that the get in the same narative
with increasing determination. It seems to me that it had become personal >>>>>>for the Government.
to track different posters in a thread . . .
Not sad at all - none of them are co-governance.
https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/chris-finlayson-co-governance-should-be-embraced-not-feared/. . .Finlayson did not make any co-governance arrangements. Provide a cite or piss
I am hopeful that the new PM will step back on a number of levels. >>>>>Especially
True the Government would have to admit that maybe it was not not correct.
Something very hard for any Government to do.
So the esculation on both sides increased. To get beyond this society needs
to get back to the speakers refraining from going over the edge, and for >>>>>>others to challange the extreme view point.
Thre is also now evidence that Twitter and Google/you tube, Fackbook/Meta >>>>>>have
filtered out the alternative view points. Twitter has come back thanks to >>>>>>Elon and the truth continues to "leak" out.
co-governance and the other undemocratic moves. But at the very least I >>>>>hope
there will be no hate speech laws.
There is little chance of unwinding the excellent co-governance >>>>arrangements implemented by Chris Finlayson - there is nothing >>>>undemocratic about acknowledging and acting in accordance with binding >>>>contracts, Tony.
off. >>https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/national-dilemma-chris-finlayson-on-co-governance-education-and-frankly-hopeless-politicians/LPGZDX32PPUKFAVT6LPKJUCMQE/
https://www.minterellison.co.nz/insights/co-governance-the-misunderstood-political-hot-potato-and-likely-election-dominator
https://www.bankside.co.nz/post/politics-law-competence-and-co-governance-an-interview-with-hon-christopher-finlayson-qc
https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/the-detail/story/2018841355/co-governance-time-to-get-on-with-it
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/wellington/wellington-mornings-with-nick-mills/audio/chris-finlayson-reacts-to-acts-anti-co-governance-proposals/
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/podcast-the-detail/co-governance-time-to-get-on-with-it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oolzKqJjY7w&ab_channel=NZQandATVNZ >>https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/05/experts-explain-what-co-governance-is-and-why-new-zealanders-shouldn-t-be-afraid-of-it.html
and one that does not have a lot of Finlayson >>https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/08/11/explainer-what-is-co-governance/
It is sad that you could not have found a few of these for yourself -
try using Google sometime . . .
They are co-management.
We have explained that to you several times but it clearly does not stick.
I have also pointed out to you before that you so often have failed to >understand the profound difference between management and governance. A >distinction the authors also fail to understand.
I am however delighted that you spent all that time finding worthless URLs.
On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 03:04:33 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:I apologise for not recognising that you do not have normal competence
On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 21:02:00 -0000 (UTC), TonyI did not write that - do reply to the author and stop being so lazy.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:The attack on personalities was entirely by those with ''alternative >>>views'' that have been attacking Jacinda Ardern personally - and that >>>includes many posts to nz.general. Bizarrely for those complaining
On 2023-01-20, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 22:13:57 -0800 (PST), John Bowes >>>>>>><bowesjohn02@gmail.com> wrote:Crash I agree that social media access is the probable avenue that has >>>>>>resulted
Funny how Clark is blaming the country for Ardern's resignation along >>>>>>>>with
social media rather than Ardern's despotic rule over the last five years.
I
know I've never liked Ardern or her totalitarian brand of politics but if
she'd
actually shown kindness rather than play acting it I'd have more sympathy
for
her.
Helen Clark's comments in support of her protege are pure bullshit worthy
of
Ardern! Ardern brought her plumet in popularity on herself. If she's >>>>>>>>talked
to
her river of filth in February and killed 5 waters she might have been in
a
better position now. But like they say karma sucks when it turns on you >>>>>>>>and
bites you on the arse...
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/helen-clark-calls-for-rethink-on-political-debate-in-wake-of-ardern-resignation/ar-AA16xH7A?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=015089752c5c49d1a593098886ee38b8
I am inclined to accept that currently NZ PMs face increased issues of >>>>>>>security and safety in public appearances because of the emergence of >>>>>>>social media. While the experiences of Clark and Shipley are of >>>>>>>interest, I would be more interested in whether Key faced security >>>>>>>issues akin to Ardern (or not) - not because he is male but because he >>>>>>>is the most significant recent PM before Ardern.
--
Crash McBash
in safety concerns for public figures. A worldwide problem of course. >>>>>> I do not accept what Helen Clark said; the opprobrium that Ardern has >>>>>>received
is largely self inflicted resulting directly from the decisions her >>>>>>government
has made. The way the criticism has been delivered with threats etc., is >>>>>> totally unacceptable.
I don't know what the answer is apart from catching and prosecuiting the >>>>>> individuals who do that stuff, but I know what isn't appropriate - and >>>>>>that
is
limiting freedom of speech or introducing hate laws.
Sure thing Social Media is a new thing and it has some teething problems. It
is technology which is being used in an iresponsible way.
That being the case the Government, for what every reason(s), did not take >>>>>into consideration of the changing situation. It just kept on the same >>>>>narrative, backed up by increasing force. This leads to a push back buy >>>>>those with alternative views and when all that the get in the same narative
with increasing determination. It seems to me that it had become personal >>>>>for the Government.
about the current government, Opposition MPs have largely agreed with >>>decisions made by government, but complained that they had rushed >>>decisions or that they should have acted earlier, or spent a bit more
to track different posters in a thread . . .
https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/chris-finlayson-co-governance-should-be-embraced-not-feared/. . .Finlayson did not make any co-governance arrangements. Provide a cite or piss >>off. >https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/national-dilemma-chris-finlayson-on-co-governance-education-and-frankly-hopeless-politicians/LPGZDX32PPUKFAVT6LPKJUCMQE/
I am hopeful that the new PM will step back on a number of levels. Especially
True the Government would have to admit that maybe it was not not correct. >>>>>Something very hard for any Government to do.
So the esculation on both sides increased. To get beyond this society needs
to get back to the speakers refraining from going over the edge, and for >>>>>others to challange the extreme view point.
Thre is also now evidence that Twitter and Google/you tube, Fackbook/Meta >>>>>have
filtered out the alternative view points. Twitter has come back thanks to >>>>>Elon and the truth continues to "leak" out.
co-governance and the other undemocratic moves. But at the very least I hope
there will be no hate speech laws.
There is little chance of unwinding the excellent co-governance >>>arrangements implemented by Chris Finlayson - there is nothing >>>undemocratic about acknowledging and acting in accordance with binding >>>contracts, Tony.
https://www.minterellison.co.nz/insights/co-governance-the-misunderstood-political-hot-potato-and-likely-election-dominator
https://www.bankside.co.nz/post/politics-law-competence-and-co-governance-an-interview-with-hon-christopher-finlayson-qc
https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/the-detail/story/2018841355/co-governance-time-to-get-on-with-it
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/wellington/wellington-mornings-with-nick-mills/audio/chris-finlayson-reacts-to-acts-anti-co-governance-proposals/
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/podcast-the-detail/co-governance-time-to-get-on-with-it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oolzKqJjY7w&ab_channel=NZQandATVNZ >https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/05/experts-explain-what-co-governance-is-and-why-new-zealanders-shouldn-t-be-afraid-of-it.html
and one that does not have a lot of Finlayson >https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/08/11/explainer-what-is-co-governance/
It is sad that you could not have found a few of these for yourself -
try using Google sometime . . .
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:Funny how now, when it suits Rich, Cam and Jordan suddenly aren't National supporters. Funny how the truth only seems to surface when Rich is trying to be stupid :)
On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 19:25:38 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 03:04:33 -0000 (UTC), TonyYou are just lazy. My competence in all things except lying eclipses yours. >>>
<lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 21:02:00 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>><lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Gordon <Gor...@leaf.net.nz> wrote:The attack on personalities was entirely by those with ''alternative >>>>>views'' that have been attacking Jacinda Ardern personally - and that >>>>>includes many posts to nz.general. Bizarrely for those complaining >>>>>about the current government, Opposition MPs have largely agreed with >>>>>decisions made by government, but complained that they had rushed >>>>>decisions or that they should have acted earlier, or spent a bit more >>>>I did not write that - do reply to the author and stop being so lazy. >>>I apologise for not recognising that you do not have normal competence >>>to track different posters in a thread . . .
On 2023-01-20, Tony <lizan...@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Crash <nog...@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 22:13:57 -0800 (PST), John Bowes >>>>>>>>><bowes...@gmail.com> wrote:Crash I agree that social media access is the probable avenue that has
Funny how Clark is blaming the country for Ardern's resignation along
with
social media rather than Ardern's despotic rule over the last five >>>>>>>>>>years.
I
know I've never liked Ardern or her totalitarian brand of politics >>>>>>>>>>but
if
she'd
actually shown kindness rather than play acting it I'd have more >>>>>>>>>>sympathy
for
her.
Helen Clark's comments in support of her protege are pure bullshit >>>>>>>>>>worthy
of
Ardern! Ardern brought her plumet in popularity on herself. If she's
talked
to
her river of filth in February and killed 5 waters she might have >>>>>>>>>>been
in
a
better position now. But like they say karma sucks when it turns on >>>>>>>>>>you
and
bites you on the arse...
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/helen-clark-calls-for-rethink-on-political-debate-in-wake-of-ardern-resignation/ar-AA16xH7A?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=015089752c5c49d1a593098886ee38b8
I am inclined to accept that currently NZ PMs face increased issues of
security and safety in public appearances because of the emergence of
social media. While the experiences of Clark and Shipley are of >>>>>>>>>interest, I would be more interested in whether Key faced security >>>>>>>>>issues akin to Ardern (or not) - not because he is male but because he
is the most significant recent PM before Ardern.
--
Crash McBash
resulted
in safety concerns for public figures. A worldwide problem of course.
I do not accept what Helen Clark said; the opprobrium that Ardern has
received
is largely self inflicted resulting directly from the decisions her >>>>>>>>government
has made. The way the criticism has been delivered with threats etc.,
is
totally unacceptable.
I don't know what the answer is apart from catching and prosecuiting >>>>>>>>the
individuals who do that stuff, but I know what isn't appropriate - and
that
is
limiting freedom of speech or introducing hate laws.
Sure thing Social Media is a new thing and it has some teething >>>>>>>problems.
It
is technology which is being used in an iresponsible way.
That being the case the Government, for what every reason(s), did not >>>>>>>take
into consideration of the changing situation. It just kept on the same >>>>>>>narrative, backed up by increasing force. This leads to a push back buy
those with alternative views and when all that the get in the same >>>>>>>narative
with increasing determination. It seems to me that it had become personal
for the Government.
Not sad at all - none of them are co-governance.https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/chris-finlayson-co-governance-should-be-embraced-not-feared/. . .Finlayson did not make any co-governance arrangements. Provide a cite or >>>>piss
I am hopeful that the new PM will step back on a number of levels. >>>>>>Especially
True the Government would have to admit that maybe it was not not >>>>>>>correct.
Something very hard for any Government to do.
So the esculation on both sides increased. To get beyond this society >>>>>>>needs
to get back to the speakers refraining from going over the edge, and for
others to challange the extreme view point.
Thre is also now evidence that Twitter and Google/you tube, >>>>>>>Fackbook/Meta
have
filtered out the alternative view points. Twitter has come back thanks >>>>>>>to
Elon and the truth continues to "leak" out.
co-governance and the other undemocratic moves. But at the very least I >>>>>>hope
there will be no hate speech laws.
There is little chance of unwinding the excellent co-governance >>>>>arrangements implemented by Chris Finlayson - there is nothing >>>>>undemocratic about acknowledging and acting in accordance with binding >>>>>contracts, Tony.
off. >>>https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/national-dilemma-chris-finlayson-on-co-governance-education-and-frankly-hopeless-politicians/LPGZDX32PPUKFAVT6LPKJUCMQE/
https://www.minterellison.co.nz/insights/co-governance-the-misunderstood-political-hot-potato-and-likely-election-dominator
https://www.bankside.co.nz/post/politics-law-competence-and-co-governance-an-interview-with-hon-christopher-finlayson-qc
https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/the-detail/story/2018841355/co-governance-time-to-get-on-with-it
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/wellington/wellington-mornings-with-nick-mills/audio/chris-finlayson-reacts-to-acts-anti-co-governance-proposals/
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/podcast-the-detail/co-governance-time-to-get-on-with-it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oolzKqJjY7w&ab_channel=NZQandATVNZ >>>https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/05/experts-explain-what-co-governance-is-and-why-new-zealanders-shouldn-t-be-afraid-of-it.html
and one that does not have a lot of Finlayson >>>https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/08/11/explainer-what-is-co-governance/
It is sad that you could not have found a few of these for yourself - >>>try using Google sometime . . .
They are co-management.
We have explained that to you several times but it clearly does not stick. >>I have also pointed out to you before that you so often have failed to >>understand the profound difference between management and governance. A >>distinction the authors also fail to understand.
I am however delighted that you spent all that time finding worthless URLs.
Rich descends once more into abuse.
He is the epitomy of a failed political contender.
He cannot even start to debate without emotional diatribes and deceit.
One minute he believes I support National (I don't) the next he believes I hold
them in contempt (I don't).
He is a very sad excuse for a supporter of failed poilices and a failed life. Piss off you ancient old duck.
On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 21:03:11 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>He has spoken firmly in support of co-governance arranagements, which
wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 03:04:33 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:I apologise for not recognising that you do not have normal competence
On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 21:02:00 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:I did not write that - do reply to the author and stop being so lazy.
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:The attack on personalities was entirely by those with ''alternative >>>>views'' that have been attacking Jacinda Ardern personally - and that >>>>includes many posts to nz.general. Bizarrely for those complaining >>>>about the current government, Opposition MPs have largely agreed with >>>>decisions made by government, but complained that they had rushed >>>>decisions or that they should have acted earlier, or spent a bit more
On 2023-01-20, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 22:13:57 -0800 (PST), John Bowes >>>>>>>><bowesjohn02@gmail.com> wrote:Crash I agree that social media access is the probable avenue that has >>>>>>>resulted
Funny how Clark is blaming the country for Ardern's resignation along >>>>>>>>>with
social media rather than Ardern's despotic rule over the last five years.
I
know I've never liked Ardern or her totalitarian brand of politics but if
she'd
actually shown kindness rather than play acting it I'd have more sympathy
for
her.
Helen Clark's comments in support of her protege are pure bullshit worthy
of
Ardern! Ardern brought her plumet in popularity on herself. If she's >>>>>>>>>talked
to
her river of filth in February and killed 5 waters she might have been in
a
better position now. But like they say karma sucks when it turns on you
and
bites you on the arse...
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/helen-clark-calls-for-rethink-on-political-debate-in-wake-of-ardern-resignation/ar-AA16xH7A?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=015089752c5c49d1a593098886ee38b8
I am inclined to accept that currently NZ PMs face increased issues of >>>>>>>>security and safety in public appearances because of the emergence of >>>>>>>>social media. While the experiences of Clark and Shipley are of >>>>>>>>interest, I would be more interested in whether Key faced security >>>>>>>>issues akin to Ardern (or not) - not because he is male but because he >>>>>>>>is the most significant recent PM before Ardern.
--
Crash McBash
in safety concerns for public figures. A worldwide problem of course. >>>>>>> I do not accept what Helen Clark said; the opprobrium that Ardern has >>>>>>>received
is largely self inflicted resulting directly from the decisions her >>>>>>>government
has made. The way the criticism has been delivered with threats etc., is
totally unacceptable.
I don't know what the answer is apart from catching and prosecuiting the
individuals who do that stuff, but I know what isn't appropriate - and >>>>>>>that
is
limiting freedom of speech or introducing hate laws.
Sure thing Social Media is a new thing and it has some teething problems. It
is technology which is being used in an iresponsible way.
That being the case the Government, for what every reason(s), did not take
into consideration of the changing situation. It just kept on the same >>>>>>narrative, backed up by increasing force. This leads to a push back buy >>>>>>those with alternative views and when all that the get in the same narative
with increasing determination. It seems to me that it had become personal >>>>>>for the Government.
to track different posters in a thread . . .
https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/chris-finlayson-co-governance-should-be-embraced-not-feared/. . .Finlayson did not make any co-governance arrangements. Provide a cite or piss
I am hopeful that the new PM will step back on a number of levels. Especially
True the Government would have to admit that maybe it was not not correct.
Something very hard for any Government to do.
So the esculation on both sides increased. To get beyond this society needs
to get back to the speakers refraining from going over the edge, and for >>>>>>others to challange the extreme view point.
Thre is also now evidence that Twitter and Google/you tube, Fackbook/Meta >>>>>>have
filtered out the alternative view points. Twitter has come back thanks to >>>>>>Elon and the truth continues to "leak" out.
co-governance and the other undemocratic moves. But at the very least I hope
there will be no hate speech laws.
There is little chance of unwinding the excellent co-governance >>>>arrangements implemented by Chris Finlayson - there is nothing >>>>undemocratic about acknowledging and acting in accordance with binding >>>>contracts, Tony.
off. >>https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/national-dilemma-chris-finlayson-on-co-governance-education-and-frankly-hopeless-politicians/LPGZDX32PPUKFAVT6LPKJUCMQE/
https://www.minterellison.co.nz/insights/co-governance-the-misunderstood-political-hot-potato-and-likely-election-dominator
https://www.bankside.co.nz/post/politics-law-competence-and-co-governance-an-interview-with-hon-christopher-finlayson-qc
https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/the-detail/story/2018841355/co-governance-time-to-get-on-with-it
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/wellington/wellington-mornings-with-nick-mills/audio/chris-finlayson-reacts-to-acts-anti-co-governance-proposals/
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/podcast-the-detail/co-governance-time-to-get-on-with-it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oolzKqJjY7w&ab_channel=NZQandATVNZ >>https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/05/experts-explain-what-co-governance-is-and-why-new-zealanders-shouldn-t-be-afraid-of-it.html
and one that does not have a lot of Finlayson >>https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/08/11/explainer-what-is-co-governance/
It is sad that you could not have found a few of these for yourself -
try using Google sometime . . .
It is sad you cannot cite any of the existing organisations that
describe themselves as 'co-governed'. This is one such example:
https://www.waikatoregion.govt.nz/community/your-community/iwi/waikato-river-co-management/
The Waikato River Authority manages but does not own the resource it
manages.
Rich, Findlayson may well support the co-governance provisions in the
water reform Acts, but he is no longer in Parliament and the
agreements he brokered provide very small-scale co-management.
Lets look at Water Entity A as a modern example of co-government. It >supplies water services to 1.7 million Aucklanders and 0.2 million >Northlanders and is a regulated monopoly. While there are manyNo, they exercise management rights.
different ways to measure the size of an enterprise, a monopoly water >supplier to 1.9 million people will be by definition a huge enterprise
in NZ. It is run by an equal number of representatives appointed by
1. Northland and Auckland local bodies.
2. Northland and Auckland iwi.
Rich there are two major differences between those co-managed entities
set up when Findlayson was Nationals Treaty negotiations minister and
the Water Entities:
1. Water Entities exercise ownership rights on water assets.
2. No-one lives in the area covered by co-managed entities, the entire >population of NZ lives within the area covered by Water Entities.Wrong - the one co-governance arrangement that you give affects water
The differences between co-managed entities established in the past by >National governments are therefore nothing more than historicalThey do proviide assurance that these co-governance arrangements do
interest and they do not provide any background relevance to the
current Water reforms. In fact, there is no references to this in all
the information published by the government about the Water reforms.
Rich I don't expect you to take any notice of or acknowledge theAt least I provided some urls to support my position - how would a
substance of this information. You consistently ignore anything that >invalidates your political narratives.
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:Your contempt for Chris Finlayson and the clear explanations that he
On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 19:25:38 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 03:04:33 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:You are just lazy. My competence in all things except lying eclipses yours. >>>>
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 21:02:00 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:The attack on personalities was entirely by those with ''alternative >>>>>>views'' that have been attacking Jacinda Ardern personally - and that >>>>>>includes many posts to nz.general. Bizarrely for those complaining >>>>>>about the current government, Opposition MPs have largely agreed with >>>>>>decisions made by government, but complained that they had rushed >>>>>>decisions or that they should have acted earlier, or spent a bit more >>>>>I did not write that - do reply to the author and stop being so lazy. >>>>I apologise for not recognising that you do not have normal competence >>>>to track different posters in a thread . . .
On 2023-01-20, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 22:13:57 -0800 (PST), John Bowes >>>>>>>>>><bowesjohn02@gmail.com> wrote:Crash I agree that social media access is the probable avenue that has
Funny how Clark is blaming the country for Ardern's resignation along
with
social media rather than Ardern's despotic rule over the last five >>>>>>>>>>>years.
I
know I've never liked Ardern or her totalitarian brand of politics >>>>>>>>>>>but
if
she'd
actually shown kindness rather than play acting it I'd have more >>>>>>>>>>>sympathy
for
her.
Helen Clark's comments in support of her protege are pure bullshit >>>>>>>>>>>worthy
of
Ardern! Ardern brought her plumet in popularity on herself. If she's >>>>>>>>>>>talked
to
her river of filth in February and killed 5 waters she might have >>>>>>>>>>>been
in
a
better position now. But like they say karma sucks when it turns on >>>>>>>>>>>you
and
bites you on the arse...
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/helen-clark-calls-for-rethink-on-political-debate-in-wake-of-ardern-resignation/ar-AA16xH7A?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=015089752c5c49d1a593098886ee38b8
I am inclined to accept that currently NZ PMs face increased issues of
security and safety in public appearances because of the emergence of >>>>>>>>>>social media. While the experiences of Clark and Shipley are of >>>>>>>>>>interest, I would be more interested in whether Key faced security >>>>>>>>>>issues akin to Ardern (or not) - not because he is male but because he
is the most significant recent PM before Ardern.
--
Crash McBash
resulted
in safety concerns for public figures. A worldwide problem of course. >>>>>>>>> I do not accept what Helen Clark said; the opprobrium that Ardern has >>>>>>>>>received
is largely self inflicted resulting directly from the decisions her >>>>>>>>>government
has made. The way the criticism has been delivered with threats etc., >>>>>>>>>is
totally unacceptable.
I don't know what the answer is apart from catching and prosecuiting >>>>>>>>>the
individuals who do that stuff, but I know what isn't appropriate - and
that
is
limiting freedom of speech or introducing hate laws.
Sure thing Social Media is a new thing and it has some teething >>>>>>>>problems.
It
is technology which is being used in an iresponsible way.
That being the case the Government, for what every reason(s), did not >>>>>>>>take
into consideration of the changing situation. It just kept on the same >>>>>>>>narrative, backed up by increasing force. This leads to a push back buy >>>>>>>>those with alternative views and when all that the get in the same >>>>>>>>narative
with increasing determination. It seems to me that it had become personal
for the Government.
Not sad at all - none of them are co-governance.https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/chris-finlayson-co-governance-should-be-embraced-not-feared/. . .Finlayson did not make any co-governance arrangements. Provide a cite or >>>>>piss
I am hopeful that the new PM will step back on a number of levels. >>>>>>>Especially
True the Government would have to admit that maybe it was not not >>>>>>>>correct.
Something very hard for any Government to do.
So the esculation on both sides increased. To get beyond this society >>>>>>>>needs
to get back to the speakers refraining from going over the edge, and for
others to challange the extreme view point.
Thre is also now evidence that Twitter and Google/you tube, >>>>>>>>Fackbook/Meta
have
filtered out the alternative view points. Twitter has come back thanks >>>>>>>>to
Elon and the truth continues to "leak" out.
co-governance and the other undemocratic moves. But at the very least I >>>>>>>hope
there will be no hate speech laws.
There is little chance of unwinding the excellent co-governance >>>>>>arrangements implemented by Chris Finlayson - there is nothing >>>>>>undemocratic about acknowledging and acting in accordance with binding >>>>>>contracts, Tony.
off. >>>>https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/national-dilemma-chris-finlayson-on-co-governance-education-and-frankly-hopeless-politicians/LPGZDX32PPUKFAVT6LPKJUCMQE/
https://www.minterellison.co.nz/insights/co-governance-the-misunderstood-political-hot-potato-and-likely-election-dominator
https://www.bankside.co.nz/post/politics-law-competence-and-co-governance-an-interview-with-hon-christopher-finlayson-qc
https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/the-detail/story/2018841355/co-governance-time-to-get-on-with-it
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/wellington/wellington-mornings-with-nick-mills/audio/chris-finlayson-reacts-to-acts-anti-co-governance-proposals/
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/podcast-the-detail/co-governance-time-to-get-on-with-it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oolzKqJjY7w&ab_channel=NZQandATVNZ >>>>https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/05/experts-explain-what-co-governance-is-and-why-new-zealanders-shouldn-t-be-afraid-of-it.html
and one that does not have a lot of Finlayson >>>>https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/08/11/explainer-what-is-co-governance/
It is sad that you could not have found a few of these for yourself - >>>>try using Google sometime . . .
They are co-management.
We have explained that to you several times but it clearly does not stick. >>>I have also pointed out to you before that you so often have failed to >>>understand the profound difference between management and governance. A >>>distinction the authors also fail to understand.
I am however delighted that you spent all that time finding worthless URLs. >>
On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 21:02:49 -0000 (UTC), TonyYour abuse is gone back one step. Keep posting it and one day another person might believe it - but I doubt it very much.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 19:25:38 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 03:04:33 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:You are just lazy. My competence in all things except lying eclipses yours. >>>>>
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 21:02:00 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:The attack on personalities was entirely by those with ''alternative >>>>>>>views'' that have been attacking Jacinda Ardern personally - and that >>>>>>>includes many posts to nz.general. Bizarrely for those complaining >>>>>>>about the current government, Opposition MPs have largely agreed with >>>>>>>decisions made by government, but complained that they had rushed >>>>>>>decisions or that they should have acted earlier, or spent a bit more >>>>>>I did not write that - do reply to the author and stop being so lazy. >>>>>I apologise for not recognising that you do not have normal competence >>>>>to track different posters in a thread . . .
On 2023-01-20, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 22:13:57 -0800 (PST), John Bowes >>>>>>>>>>><bowesjohn02@gmail.com> wrote:Crash I agree that social media access is the probable avenue that >>>>>>>>>>has
Funny how Clark is blaming the country for Ardern's resignation >>>>>>>>>>>>along
with
social media rather than Ardern's despotic rule over the last five >>>>>>>>>>>>years.
I
know I've never liked Ardern or her totalitarian brand of politics >>>>>>>>>>>>but
if
she'd
actually shown kindness rather than play acting it I'd have more >>>>>>>>>>>>sympathy
for
her.
Helen Clark's comments in support of her protege are pure bullshit >>>>>>>>>>>>worthy
of
Ardern! Ardern brought her plumet in popularity on herself. If >>>>>>>>>>>>she's
talked
to
her river of filth in February and killed 5 waters she might have >>>>>>>>>>>>been
in
a
better position now. But like they say karma sucks when it turns on >>>>>>>>>>>>you
and
bites you on the arse...
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/helen-clark-calls-for-rethink-on-political-debate-in-wake-of-ardern-resignation/ar-AA16xH7A?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=015089752c5c49d1a593098886ee38b8
I am inclined to accept that currently NZ PMs face increased issues >>>>>>>>>>>of
security and safety in public appearances because of the emergence of
social media. While the experiences of Clark and Shipley are of >>>>>>>>>>>interest, I would be more interested in whether Key faced security >>>>>>>>>>>issues akin to Ardern (or not) - not because he is male but because >>>>>>>>>>>he
is the most significant recent PM before Ardern.
--
Crash McBash
resulted
in safety concerns for public figures. A worldwide problem of course.
I do not accept what Helen Clark said; the opprobrium that Ardern >>>>>>>>>>has
received
is largely self inflicted resulting directly from the decisions her >>>>>>>>>>government
has made. The way the criticism has been delivered with threats >>>>>>>>>>etc.,
is
totally unacceptable.
I don't know what the answer is apart from catching and prosecuiting >>>>>>>>>>the
individuals who do that stuff, but I know what isn't appropriate - >>>>>>>>>>and
that
is
limiting freedom of speech or introducing hate laws.
Sure thing Social Media is a new thing and it has some teething >>>>>>>>>problems.
It
is technology which is being used in an iresponsible way.
That being the case the Government, for what every reason(s), did not >>>>>>>>>take
into consideration of the changing situation. It just kept on the same >>>>>>>>>narrative, backed up by increasing force. This leads to a push back buy
those with alternative views and when all that the get in the same >>>>>>>>>narative
with increasing determination. It seems to me that it had become >>>>>>>>>personal
for the Government.
Not sad at all - none of them are co-governance.https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/chris-finlayson-co-governance-should-be-embraced-not-feared/. . .Finlayson did not make any co-governance arrangements. Provide a cite or >>>>>>piss
I am hopeful that the new PM will step back on a number of levels. >>>>>>>>Especially
True the Government would have to admit that maybe it was not not >>>>>>>>>correct.
Something very hard for any Government to do.
So the esculation on both sides increased. To get beyond this society >>>>>>>>>needs
to get back to the speakers refraining from going over the edge, and >>>>>>>>>for
others to challange the extreme view point.
Thre is also now evidence that Twitter and Google/you tube, >>>>>>>>>Fackbook/Meta
have
filtered out the alternative view points. Twitter has come back thanks >>>>>>>>>to
Elon and the truth continues to "leak" out.
co-governance and the other undemocratic moves. But at the very least I >>>>>>>>hope
there will be no hate speech laws.
There is little chance of unwinding the excellent co-governance >>>>>>>arrangements implemented by Chris Finlayson - there is nothing >>>>>>>undemocratic about acknowledging and acting in accordance with binding >>>>>>>contracts, Tony.
off. >>>>>https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/national-dilemma-chris-finlayson-on-co-governance-education-and-frankly-hopeless-politicians/LPGZDX32PPUKFAVT6LPKJUCMQE/
https://www.minterellison.co.nz/insights/co-governance-the-misunderstood-political-hot-potato-and-likely-election-dominator
https://www.bankside.co.nz/post/politics-law-competence-and-co-governance-an-interview-with-hon-christopher-finlayson-qc
https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/the-detail/story/2018841355/co-governance-time-to-get-on-with-it
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/wellington/wellington-mornings-with-nick-mills/audio/chris-finlayson-reacts-to-acts-anti-co-governance-proposals/
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/podcast-the-detail/co-governance-time-to-get-on-with-it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oolzKqJjY7w&ab_channel=NZQandATVNZ >>>>>https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/05/experts-explain-what-co-governance-is-and-why-new-zealanders-shouldn-t-be-afraid-of-it.html
and one that does not have a lot of Finlayson >>>>>https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/08/11/explainer-what-is-co-governance/
It is sad that you could not have found a few of these for yourself - >>>>>try using Google sometime . . .
They are co-management.
We have explained that to you several times but it clearly does not stick. >>>>I have also pointed out to you before that you so often have failed to >>>>understand the profound difference between management and governance. A >>>>distinction the authors also fail to understand.
I am however delighted that you spent all that time finding worthless URLs. >>>
On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 11:47:04 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 21:03:11 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:He has spoken firmly in support of co-governance arranagements, which
On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 03:04:33 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:I apologise for not recognising that you do not have normal competence
On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 21:02:00 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:The attack on personalities was entirely by those with ''alternative >>>>>views'' that have been attacking Jacinda Ardern personally - and that >>>>>includes many posts to nz.general. Bizarrely for those complaining >>>>>about the current government, Opposition MPs have largely agreed with >>>>>decisions made by government, but complained that they had rushed >>>>>decisions or that they should have acted earlier, or spent a bit more >>>>I did not write that - do reply to the author and stop being so lazy.
On 2023-01-20, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 22:13:57 -0800 (PST), John Bowes >>>>>>>>><bowesjohn02@gmail.com> wrote:Crash I agree that social media access is the probable avenue that has >>>>>>>>resulted
Funny how Clark is blaming the country for Ardern's resignation along >>>>>>>>>>with
social media rather than Ardern's despotic rule over the last five years.
I
know I've never liked Ardern or her totalitarian brand of politics but if
she'd
actually shown kindness rather than play acting it I'd have more sympathy
for
her.
Helen Clark's comments in support of her protege are pure bullshit worthy
of
Ardern! Ardern brought her plumet in popularity on herself. If she's >>>>>>>>>>talked
to
her river of filth in February and killed 5 waters she might have been in
a
better position now. But like they say karma sucks when it turns on you
and
bites you on the arse...
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/helen-clark-calls-for-rethink-on-political-debate-in-wake-of-ardern-resignation/ar-AA16xH7A?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=015089752c5c49d1a593098886ee38b8
I am inclined to accept that currently NZ PMs face increased issues of >>>>>>>>>security and safety in public appearances because of the emergence of >>>>>>>>>social media. While the experiences of Clark and Shipley are of >>>>>>>>>interest, I would be more interested in whether Key faced security >>>>>>>>>issues akin to Ardern (or not) - not because he is male but because he >>>>>>>>>is the most significant recent PM before Ardern.
--
Crash McBash
in safety concerns for public figures. A worldwide problem of course. >>>>>>>> I do not accept what Helen Clark said; the opprobrium that Ardern has >>>>>>>>received
is largely self inflicted resulting directly from the decisions her >>>>>>>>government
has made. The way the criticism has been delivered with threats etc., is
totally unacceptable.
I don't know what the answer is apart from catching and prosecuiting the
individuals who do that stuff, but I know what isn't appropriate - and >>>>>>>>that
is
limiting freedom of speech or introducing hate laws.
Sure thing Social Media is a new thing and it has some teething problems. It
is technology which is being used in an iresponsible way.
That being the case the Government, for what every reason(s), did not take
into consideration of the changing situation. It just kept on the same >>>>>>>narrative, backed up by increasing force. This leads to a push back buy >>>>>>>those with alternative views and when all that the get in the same narative
with increasing determination. It seems to me that it had become personal
for the Government.
to track different posters in a thread . . .
https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/chris-finlayson-co-governance-should-be-embraced-not-feared/. . .Finlayson did not make any co-governance arrangements. Provide a cite or piss
I am hopeful that the new PM will step back on a number of levels. Especially
True the Government would have to admit that maybe it was not not correct.
Something very hard for any Government to do.
So the esculation on both sides increased. To get beyond this society needs
to get back to the speakers refraining from going over the edge, and for >>>>>>>others to challange the extreme view point.
Thre is also now evidence that Twitter and Google/you tube, Fackbook/Meta
have
filtered out the alternative view points. Twitter has come back thanks to
Elon and the truth continues to "leak" out.
co-governance and the other undemocratic moves. But at the very least I hope
there will be no hate speech laws.
There is little chance of unwinding the excellent co-governance >>>>>arrangements implemented by Chris Finlayson - there is nothing >>>>>undemocratic about acknowledging and acting in accordance with binding >>>>>contracts, Tony.
off. >>>https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/national-dilemma-chris-finlayson-on-co-governance-education-and-frankly-hopeless-politicians/LPGZDX32PPUKFAVT6LPKJUCMQE/
https://www.minterellison.co.nz/insights/co-governance-the-misunderstood-political-hot-potato-and-likely-election-dominator
https://www.bankside.co.nz/post/politics-law-competence-and-co-governance-an-interview-with-hon-christopher-finlayson-qc
https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/the-detail/story/2018841355/co-governance-time-to-get-on-with-it
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/wellington/wellington-mornings-with-nick-mills/audio/chris-finlayson-reacts-to-acts-anti-co-governance-proposals/
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/podcast-the-detail/co-governance-time-to-get-on-with-it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oolzKqJjY7w&ab_channel=NZQandATVNZ >>>https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/05/experts-explain-what-co-governance-is-and-why-new-zealanders-shouldn-t-be-afraid-of-it.html
and one that does not have a lot of Finlayson >>>https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/08/11/explainer-what-is-co-governance/
It is sad that you could not have found a few of these for yourself -
try using Google sometime . . .
It is sad you cannot cite any of the existing organisations that
describe themselves as 'co-governed'. This is one such example:
https://www.waikatoregion.govt.nz/community/your-community/iwi/waikato-river-co-management/
The Waikato River Authority manages but does not own the resource it >>manages.
Rich, Findlayson may well support the co-governance provisions in the
water reform Acts, but he is no longer in Parliament and the
agreements he brokered provide very small-scale co-management.
do not in any case amount to ownership. They are smaller than the
entities now being proposed, but the problems are great - do you
really favour leaving it to the continuing failure of local
authorities to put in the resources neeeded to fix it?
No, they exercise management rights.
Lets look at Water Entity A as a modern example of co-government. It >>supplies water services to 1.7 million Aucklanders and 0.2 million >>Northlanders and is a regulated monopoly. While there are many
different ways to measure the size of an enterprise, a monopoly water >>supplier to 1.9 million people will be by definition a huge enterprise
in NZ. It is run by an equal number of representatives appointed by
1. Northland and Auckland local bodies.
2. Northland and Auckland iwi.
Rich there are two major differences between those co-managed entities
set up when Findlayson was Nationals Treaty negotiations minister and
the Water Entities:
1. Water Entities exercise ownership rights on water assets.
2. No-one lives in the area covered by co-managed entities, the entire >>population of NZ lives within the area covered by Water Entities.Wrong - the one co-governance arrangement that you give affects water
over a large area; as does the arranagment that exists to manage
(among other things) water levels in a number of rivers including the >Wanganui River.
They do proviide assurance that these co-governance arrangements do
The differences between co-managed entities established in the past by >>National governments are therefore nothing more than historical
interest and they do not provide any background relevance to the
current Water reforms. In fact, there is no references to this in all
the information published by the government about the Water reforms.
work
- they are currently working
, and Chris Finlayson at least
believes National is wrong to be rejecting them
- and it is
interesting that National are not rejecting them formally
- they know
that the problems will not go away; they just want to mis-represent
what Labour is doing to create a ''failure'' in the minds of voters.
At least I provided some urls to support my position - how would a
Rich I don't expect you to take any notice of or acknowledge the
substance of this information. You consistently ignore anything that >>invalidates your political narratives.
National / ACT Government fix Auckland's dirty beaches?
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