since yesterday, I get on eternal-september a lot of sometime very old
posts, for example this one from 2013:

news://news.eternal-september.org:119/51DE36BA.5080505@jgaa.com

not a big deal, but what happen?

(not my server, I don't feed the big8)

also in source:

<krj2c7$mao$1@speranza.aioe.org>
X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com

jdd

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jdanield <jdd@dodin.org> wrote:

since yesterday, I get on eternal-september a lot of sometime very old
posts,

There is a thread in eternal-september.support discussing this very
issue. The old articles are being re-injected through news.freedyn.de.

The Message-IDs weren't changed so I'm not sure why they re-appeared.

for example this one from 2013:

news://news.eternal-september.org:119/51DE36BA.5080505@jgaa.com

not a big deal, but what happen?

(not my server, I don't feed the big8)

also in source:

<krj2c7$mao$1@speranza.aioe.org>
X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com

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"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> writes:

There is a thread in eternal-september.support discussing this very
issue. The old articles are being re-injected through news.freedyn.de.

The Message-IDs weren't changed so I'm not sure why they re-appeared.

Highly unlikely that anyone keeps a history database going back to 2013,
so to reject articles that old, Usenet relies on the Date (or
Injection-Date) header. That means that if the reinjector rewrites the
Date header, there's not a lot that one can do.

--
Russ Allbery (eagle@eyrie.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

Please post questions rather than mailing me directly.
<https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/questions.html> explains why.

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On 1/9/22 10:35 AM, Russ Allbery wrote:

Highly unlikely that anyone keeps a history database going back
to 2013, so to reject articles that old, Usenet relies on the Date
(or Injection-Date) header.

Yep.

That means that if the reinjector rewrites the Date header, there's
not a lot that one can do.

Is the poster rewriting the Date header?

Or is this a new news-admin trying to backfill their news server and accidentally leaking messages to a peer that isn't filtering them like
they should be?



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

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jdanield schrieb:

not a big deal, but what happen?

news.freedyn.de re-feedet old postings from a backup system to a (new)
live server; probably due to a misconfiguration they were prpagated to
its peers (and mostly dropped due to their age).

Most probably due to another misconfiguration on eternal-september.org
[1] those dupes were not rejected, but accepted, shown to readers and propagated to peers. [2]

Both admins have been notified; postings should have stopped today at
about 13.40 CET.

Regards,
-thh

[1] Speculating: artcutoff has could have been set to 0 (disabling the rejection of old postings) to re-feed old postings after a crash or
server migration, and someone forgot to undo that change afterwards.

[2] Starting on Jan 6th at about midnight CET. I peer with both servers
and have - according to my logs - rejected about 1.000 Postings, 137
directly from freedyn.de and 866 from eternal-september.

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Russ Allbery schrieb:

Highly unlikely that anyone keeps a history database going back to 2013,

In low-traffic moderated groups we got postings back to about 2007,
according to the Message-IDs (I don't have the postings).

so to reject articles that old, Usenet relies on the Date (or
Injection-Date) header. That means that if the reinjector rewrites the
Date header, there's not a lot that one can do.

The Date: header has not been rewritten, so INN schould have rejected
those postings (and it has, here).

-thh

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On 1/9/22 11:37 AM, Thomas Hochstein wrote:

The Date: header has not been rewritten, so INN schould have rejected
those postings (and it has, here).

Thank you for confirmation of the lack of modification and that INN's
default artcutoff should have filtered these.



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

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Thomas Hochstein <thh@thh.name> writes:

Russ Allbery schrieb:

Highly unlikely that anyone keeps a history database going back to 2013,

In low-traffic moderated groups we got postings back to about 2007,
according to the Message-IDs (I don't have the postings).

Right you keep entries for the articles still in the spool, but no one is
going to keep a record of all the rejected or expired articles for that
long. Normal settings are between 7 and 30 days.

The Date: header has not been rewritten, so INN schould have rejected
those postings (and it has, here).

That's very weird, then. Is there an Injection-Date header?

--
Russ Allbery (eagle@eyrie.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

Please post questions rather than mailing me directly.
<https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/questions.html> explains why.

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Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> writes:

On 1/9/22 10:35 AM, Russ Allbery wrote:

That means that if the reinjector rewrites the Date header, there's not
a lot that one can do.

Is the poster rewriting the Date header?

Or is this a new news-admin trying to backfill their news server and accidentally leaking messages to a peer that isn't filtering them like
they should be?

I would be very, very surprised if eternal-september isn't filtering on
the Date header. (That filtering happens at every hop except for
old-school transit-only servers like Cyclone.)

--
Russ Allbery (eagle@eyrie.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

Please post questions rather than mailing me directly.
<https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/questions.html> explains why.

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Thomas Hochstein <thh@thh.name> writes:

[1] Speculating: artcutoff has could have been set to 0 (disabling the rejection of old postings) to re-feed old postings after a crash or
server migration, and someone forgot to undo that change afterwards.

Oh, good call, I should have read the whole thread first.

--
Russ Allbery (eagle@eyrie.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

Please post questions rather than mailing me directly.
<https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/questions.html> explains why.

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Russ Allbery <eagle@eyrie.org> wrote:

"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> writes:

There is a thread in eternal-september.support discussing this very
issue. The old articles are being re-injected through news.freedyn.de.

The Message-IDs weren't changed so I'm not sure why they re-appeared.

Highly unlikely that anyone keeps a history database going back to 2013,

Fair enough but some of the articles were from 2020 and 2021.

As I noted elsewhere, the re-injected articles thread due to an intact References header, so I can walk back or forth in the thread tree if the
other not re-injected articles in the thread weren't expired. It's like
the re-injected articles superseded the unexpired original articles.

so to reject articles that old, Usenet relies on the Date (or
Injection-Date) header. That means that if the reinjector rewrites the
Date header, there's not a lot that one can do.

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