I thought it would be possible to see what other servers the
newsserver I connect to gets its messages from by looking at the
message Path headers.

However, they are all set to 'not-for-mail'.

That's not what I think it says in RFC 850. Is that header no longer
used?


Richard

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

In article <ftng0gltbokefk61uth1vfj2q9kpcibbe6@4ax.com>,
<anonymous@example.invalid> wrote:

I thought it would be possible to see what other servers the
newsserver I connect to gets its messages from by looking at the
message Path headers.

However, they are all set to 'not-for-mail'.

It looks like you're reading it backwards.

Here's the Path: header I see for your post:

Path: usenet.inf.ed.ac.uk!nntp-feed.chiark.greenend.org.uk!ewrotcd!
+ feeds.news.ox.ac.uk!news.ox.ac.uk!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!
+ feeder1-2.proxad.net!proxad.net!feeder1-1.proxad.net!193.141.40.65.
+ MISMATCH!npeer.as286.net!npeer-ng0.as286.net!peer04.ams1!peer.ams1.
+ xlned.com!news.xlned.com!peer02.ams4!peer.am4.highwinds-media.com!news.
+ highwinds-media.com!fx17.ams4.POSTED!not-for-mail

The server I'm reading it from is usenet.inf.ed.ac.uk. It received
it from nntp-feed.chiark.greenend.org.uk.

The path has the form of a UUCP mail address, host!host!...!host!user.
In the distant past, the user part would be the actual username of the
poster, and the path could be used to sent a reply. Nowadays servers
insert "not-for-mail" as a placeholder where the username would be.

-- Richard

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 18:00:46 +0000 (UTC), richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk
(Richard Tobin) wrote:

Here's the Path: header I see for your post:

Path: usenet.inf.ed.ac.uk!nntp-feed.chiark.greenend.org.uk!ewrotcd!
+ feeds.news.ox.ac.uk!news.ox.ac.uk!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net! >+ feeder1-2.proxad.net!proxad.net!feeder1-1.proxad.net!193.141.40.65.
+ MISMATCH!npeer.as286.net!npeer-ng0.as286.net!peer04.ams1!peer.ams1.
+ xlned.com!news.xlned.com!peer02.ams4!peer.am4.highwinds-media.com!news. >+ highwinds-media.com!fx17.ams4.POSTED!not-for-mail

The server I'm reading it from is usenet.inf.ed.ac.uk. It received
it from nntp-feed.chiark.greenend.org.uk.

That's interesting. By the time I get the message, the headers look
like this , except that I've removed your email address:

Path: not-for-mail
From: --snipped----(Richard Tobin)
Newsgroups: news.software.nntp
Subject: Re: path header not used?
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2021 18:00:46 +0000 (UTC)
Organization: Language Technology Group, University of Edinburgh
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <ru9r4e$3gj$1@macpro.inf.ed.ac.uk>
References: <ftng0gltbokefk61uth1vfj2q9kpcibbe6@4ax.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: macaroni.inf.ed.ac.uk
X-Trace: macpro.inf.ed.ac.uk 1611165646 3603 129.215.197.42 (20 Jan
2021 18:00:46 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: usenet@macpro.inf.ed.ac.uk
NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2021 18:00:46 +0000 (UTC)
X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001)
Originator: --snipped--- (Richard Tobin)
X-Received-Bytes: 2119


Maybe it's a policy of my newsserver provider to remove path
information for some reason.

I've using the newsserver provided by Forte: news.forteinc.com

Looking at the faq on their website:
https://www.forteinc.com/apn/faq.php
the newsserver may be run by Easynews. Not sure.



Richard

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 16:59:21 +0000, anonymous@example.invalid wrote:

I thought it would be possible to see what other servers the
newsserver I connect to gets its messages from by looking at the
message Path headers.

However, they are all set to 'not-for-mail'.

That's not what I think it says in RFC 850. Is that header no longer
used?

Richard

Path: ...!peer.am4.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!fx17.ams4.POSTED!not-for-mail
X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com
Organization: Forte - www.forteinc.com

You are using a Usenet service which resells service from Omicron's
HW Media Usenet backbone.
<https://burwinch.github.io/usenet_tree/usenet_tree.svg>

The HW Media Usenet backbone stopped providing the real 'Path' header
to customers back in 2012. The alleged reason was "to protect our
proprietary architecture".


--
Kind regards
Ralph

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Richard Tobin <richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk> wrote:

anonymous@example.invalid wrote:

I thought it would be possible to see what other servers the
newsserver I connect to gets its messages from by looking at the
message Path headers.

However, they are all set to 'not-for-mail'.

It looks like you're reading it backwards.

Here's the Path: header I see for your post:

Path: usenet.inf.ed.ac.uk!nntp-feed.chiark.greenend.org.uk!ewrotcd!
+ feeds.news.ox.ac.uk!news.ox.ac.uk!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net! >+ feeder1-2.proxad.net!proxad.net!feeder1-1.proxad.net!193.141.40.65.
+ MISMATCH!npeer.as286.net!npeer-ng0.as286.net!peer04.ams1!peer.ams1.
+ xlned.com!news.xlned.com!peer02.ams4!peer.am4.highwinds-media.com!news. >+ highwinds-media.com!fx17.ams4.POSTED!not-for-mail

The server I'm reading it from is usenet.inf.ed.ac.uk. It received
it from nntp-feed.chiark.greenend.org.uk.

The path has the form of a UUCP mail address, host!host!...!host!user.
In the distant past, the user part would be the actual username of the >poster, and the path could be used to sent a reply. Nowadays servers
insert "not-for-mail" as a placeholder where the username would be.

Ah. I had assumed the purpose was to prevent it from being accidentally
routed as an email message.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2021-01-21 1:09 a.m., Ralph Fox wrote:

You are using a Usenet service which resells service from Omicron's
HW Media Usenet backbone.
<https://burwinch.github.io/usenet_tree/usenet_tree.svg>

The HW Media Usenet backbone stopped providing the real 'Path' header
to customers back in 2012. The alleged reason was "to protect our proprietary architecture".

thx. been wondering about that.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, 21 Jan 2021 19:09:29 +1300, Ralph Fox <-rf-nz-@-.invalid>
wrote:

You are using a Usenet service which resells service from Omicron's
HW Media Usenet backbone.
<https://burwinch.github.io/usenet_tree/usenet_tree.svg>

The HW Media Usenet backbone stopped providing the real 'Path' header
to customers back in 2012. The alleged reason was "to protect our >proprietary architecture".

Thanks. An interesting link.

If I want to use those headers, I guess I'll have to sign up to a
different provider.

Richard

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)