• 30 Years Ago: rec.ham-radio reorganization (1/2)

    From Paul W. Schleck@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 28 09:13:46 2021
    XPost: rec.radio.amateur.moderated, rec.radio.amateur.misc, rec.radio.amateur.policy
    XPost: rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc, rec.radio.swap, rec.radio.cb

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    The following articles from 30 years ago, currently early 1991, are
    taken from the Internet Archive at:

    https://archive.org/download/usenet-rec/rec.ham-radio.mbox.zip


    Path: gmdzi!unido!mcsun!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!ucsd!pacbell.com!ames!eos!shelby!paulf@shasta.Stanford.EDU
    From: paulf@shasta.Stanford.EDU (paulf)
    Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.ham-radio
    Subject: CALL FOR DISCUSSION: rec.ham-radio reorganization
    Message-ID: <19@shasta.Stanford.EDU>
    Date: 4 Dec 90 17:26:04 GMT
    Organization: The Three Packeteers
    Lines: 41
    Xref: gmdzi news.groups:23265 rec.ham-radio:17431
    Posted: Tue Dec 4 18:26:04 1990

    Jay Maynard and I propose the following reorganization of the rec.ham-radio hierarchy:

    PROPOSED ADDITIONS:

    1. rec.radio.ham

    "A General newsgroup for discussions about amateur radio."

    2. rec.radio.ham.legal

    "A newsgroup for the discussion of legal aspects of amateur radio."

    3. rec.radio.ham.packet

    "A newsgroup for discussions about amateur packet radio."

    4. rec.radio.ham.swap

    "A forsale group for the rec.radio.ham hierarchy."

    PROPOSED DELETIONS:

    1. rec.ham-radio

    Now superseded by rec.radio.ham and rec.radio.ham.legal.

    2. rec.ham-radio.packet

    Superseded by rec.radio.ham.packet

    3. rec.ham-radio.swap

    Replaced by rec.radio.ham.swap


    Commentary Period: Dec. 4 -14, 1990


    - -=Paul Flaherty, N9FZX | Without KILL files,
    - ->paulf@shasta.Stanford.EDU | life itself would be impossible.


    Path: gmdzi!unido!mcsun!sunic!uupsi!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!apple!bionet!turbo.bio.net!lear
    From: jmaynard@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu (Jay Maynard)
    Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,rec.ham-radio,rec.ham-radio.swap,rec.ham-radio.packet
    Subject: CALL FOR VOTES: reorganization of rec.ham-radio.*
    Message-ID: <Jan.6.23.53.39.1991.9616@turbo.bio.net>
    Date: 7 Jan 91 07:51:50 GMT
    Sender: lear@turbo.bio.net
    Reply-To: jmaynard@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu
    Followup-To: news.groups
    Lines: 129
    Approved: lear@turbo.bio.net
    Xref: gmdzi news.announce.newgroups:785 rec.ham-radio:18872 rec.ham-radio.swap:900 rec.ham-radio.packet:3355

    This is a formal call for votes for the proposed reorganization of rec.ham-radio.*. The discussion period started on December 4, 1990, and
    has run for just over the required 30 days (extended from the original
    ending time of 31 December 1990 due to the Christmas and New Year's
    holidays). Please read this entire posting before sending in your
    vote; the ballot to be used is at the end.

    THE PROPOSAL:
    =============
    The following groups are to be renamed:
    rec.ham-radio => rec.radio.amateur.misc
    rec.ham-radio.packet => rec.radio.amateur.packet
    rec.ham-radio.swap => rec.radio.swap
    Groups will be renamed by creating the replacement group, asking site
    admins to alias the old group to the new one, and rmgrouping the old
    group after traffic in it has died down, hopefully about a month later.
    This method has been shown to work in other hierarchies.

    The following groups are to be created:
    rec.radio.amateur.policy
    This group is intended to contain any and all discussion about policy
    issues pertaining to amateur radio, including, but not limited to,
    rules, regulations, laws, and legal actions by and against amateur
    radio operators. This group is to be unmoderated.

    rec.radio.cb
    This group is intended to contain discussions related to Citizens'
    Band radio. This group will be unmoderated.

    RATIONALE:
    ==========
    1. Why move the groups at all? The primary motivation is to make it
    easier for interested people to find newsgroups related to ham radio.
    The rec.radio hierarchy was created after rec.ham-radio (net.ham-radio
    before the Great Renaming). It is an inconsistency in the namespace to
    have groups for similar purposes separated from each other, and that
    makes it harder for new users to find the desired groups. Further,
    this allows a change from ham radio to amateur radio (see next topic).

    2. Why .amateur instead of .ham? It has been pointed out in discussion
    that "ham radio" is primarily an American term, and carries little
    meaning outside the US. In addition, there are negative connotations
    attached to "ham" that don't apply to "amateur". Some confusion also
    exists in the public mind about just what a "ham radio operator" is,
    as evidenced by the occasional "ham operator jams aircraft
    frequencies!" when the person in question has never been a licensed
    amateur radio operator.

    3. Why a .policy group? A significant part of the traffic in
    rec.ham-radio is concerned with issues of policy. This includes
    substantially all of the flamage, which has in the recent past
    included such subjects as whether or not it's legal to order a pizza
    via an amateur repeater, the proposal to add a class of license that
    does not require knowledge of the International Morse Code, and the
    legality of modifying amateur equipment to transmit outside the
    amateur bands. The new group is intended to move the flames and the
    long discussions that never seem to get anywhere out of the main
    group.

    4. Why use the name .policy, instead of .rules, .regs, .regulations,
    etc.? The group is intended to contain any and all discussion about
    any policy issues pertaining to amateur radio. This includes not just
    rules and regulations of the FCC and other national regulatory bodies,
    but also laws affecting hams (such as the infamous New Jersey scanner
    law), lawsuits over nuisance issues, antenna ordinances, frequency
    coordination and band planning, and the like. .policy is the best name
    that has been suggested for the group out of many possibilities.

    5. Why not a .tech group? There are two reasons for this one. The
    first is that there's more to ham radio that's non-inflammatory than
    just technical discussions, and the object of a new group is to move
    the flames, not run away from them. A .tech group would leave those of
    us who are interested in more than just technical discussions, yet not
    in the seemingly endless legal discussions, left to wade through the
    flames. Second, Brian Kantor, who maintains the info-hams mailing
    list, has said that info-hams will continue to gateway rec.ham-radio
    (and, presumably, rec.radio.amateur.misc) only, and moving the
    technical postings off would deprive those on the mailing list.

    6. Why create a .cb group? There is currently no place for Citizens' Band
    radio discussions explicit in the hierarchy. These postings currently wind
    up in rec.ham-radio, where they tend to generate flamage all out of
    proportion to their volume.


    THE MECHANICS OF THE VOTE:
    ==========================

    The voting period will run from Monday, 7 January 1991 until Monday, 28
    January 1991. Only votes received during that period will be counted.
    Each proposal is a separate vote, and must be voted on separately under
    the Guidelines for Group Creation (which have been applied to renames as
    well in the past).

    Please edit and send in the ballot below. Each ballot will be stripped of
    all but the From: line and the lines containing valid votes by an automatic process; I won't see any comments included. No individual acknowledgments
    will be mailed. Votes will be acknowledged en masse in a posting on Thursday, 18 January 1991, and complete vote results will be posted on Tuesday, 29 January 1991.

    For each proposal, indicate your choice of a yes vote or a no vote by
    placing a Y or N, respectively, at the beginning of the line. The first character on the line that is either a Y or an N (case doesn't matter)
    will be counted as your vote on that proposal. You may abstain from any particular vote by deleting the line entirely from the ballot. An invalid
    line (one not containing a Y or an N before the "Proposal #n:" tag) will be treated as an abstention, as well. Mail the completed ballot to me at
    this address, jmaynard@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu, with the characters "VOTE" somewhere in the Subject: line. (Again, case doesn't matter.) Replying to
    this message with your newsreader's mail reply command ("R" in rn, readnews, vnews, and vn; I don't know nn's commamd) will work fine. Votes posted to
    the net will be summarily ignored and may earn the poster a free flame from
    the net.police.

    THE BALLOT:
    ===========
    ? Proposal #1: Rename rec.ham-radio to rec.radio.amateur.misc
    ? Proposal #2: Rename rec.ham-radio.packet to rec.radio.amateur.packet
    ? Proposal #3: Rename rec.ham-radio.swap to rec.radio.swap
    ? Proposal #4: Create rec.radio.amateur.policy
    ? Proposal #5: Create rec.radio.cb



    - --
    Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can jmaynard@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu | adequately be explained by stupidity.
    "I smell a scientific fish." -- Chip Salzenberg


    Path: gmdzi!unido!mcsun!sunic!uupsi!njin!rutgers!usc!wuarchive!bcm!lib!thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu
    From: jmaynard@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu (Jay Maynard)
    Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.ham-radio,rec.ham-radio.packet,rec.ham-radio.swap >Subject: MASS ACKNOWLEDGMENT: rec.ham-radio reorganization
    Message-ID: <4577@lib.tmc.edu>
    Date: 17 Jan 91 12:38:01 GMT
    Sender: usenet@lib.tmc.edu
    Followup-To: news.groups
    Organization: University of Texas Medical School at Houston
    Lines: 157
    Xref: gmdzi news.groups:24270 rec.ham-radio:19508 rec.ham-radio.packet:3420 rec.ham-radio.swap:919
    Nntp-Posting-Host: thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu
    Originator: jmaynard@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu


    Votes have been received from the following, as of 6 AM Central on 17 January 1990. A companion posting describes the reorganization, and contains the
    ballot used.

    " 24298, GIBBONS, JOHN" <abvax!iccgcc.DNET!gibbonsj@uunet.UU.NET>
    07-Jan-1991 1026 <bosslet@mr4dec.enet.dec.com> adec23!mark@pembina.cs.UAlberta.CA
    adkins@ti-csl.csc.ti.com
    anicon!doug (Doug Grant)
    autodesk!megalon!abeals@fernwood.mpk.ca.us (Only 345 more shopping days until Christmas)
    barry@tanstaafl!edgar.Mn.Org (barry)
    bill@mousetrap.canton.mi.us (William S. Johnston)
    biocca@bevsun.bev.lbl.gov (Alan Biocca)
    Bob Manson <manson@cis.ohio-state.edu>
    Bob Witte <bobw@col.hp.com>
    Bob_Dixon@osu.edu
    "Brian Bartholomew" <bb@loggerhead.cis.ufl.edu>
    brian@ucsd.edu (Brian Kantor)
    brighton@vicom.com (Bill Carson)
    brosen@BBN.COM
    Charles J. Guest <chguest@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov>
    Charley Kline <c-kline@uiuc.edu>
    chk@alias (C. Harald Koch)
    chuckb@amc.com (Chuck Baldwin)
    "CPT Douglas E. Nielsen" <ASQK-DB-CO@taegu-emh1.army.mil> cs00jmc@unccvax.uncc.edu (John Covington WN4BBJ)
    ctuel@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU (Cliff Tuel)
    curt@cynic.wimsey.bc.ca (Curt Sampson)
    daves@amc.com (Dave Schmidt)
    David Wright <D.W.Wright@stl.stc.co.uk>
    dc@caveat.berkeley.edu (Dave Cottingham)
    dem@meaddata.com (David Myers)
    dillon@pa.dec.com (John Dillon)
    ean@gvlv3.GVL.Unisys.COM (Ed Naratil)
    Ed Hall <edhall@rand.org>
    eddy@jafus.mi.org (Eddy J. Gurney)
    electro!carlo@watcgl.waterloo.edu (Carlo Sgro)
    emanuele@to.sem.it (Emanuele Girlando)
    emmayche@dhw68k.cts.COM (Mark Hartman)
    Eric Peterson <eric@prodnet.la.locus.com> FINBERG%ebvxcl.draper.com@RELAY.CS.NET
    foxworth@bnlls1.nsls.bnl.gov (Bob Foxworth)
    fritz@caf.MIT.EDU (Frederick Herrmann)
    Gary Bridges <bridges@isuee1.ee.iastate.edu>
    gary@sci34hub.sci.com (Gary Heston)
    gary@ssd.Kodak.Com (Gary M. Diana (645)) gemed!uunet!crdgw1.ge.com!med.ge.com!sol!woskoff@crdgw1.ge.com
    Gerben 'P' Vos <gpvos@cs.vu.nl>
    Gerrit Polder <GERRIT.POLDER%CRZ.AGRO.nl@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
    gil@banyan.banyan.com (Gil Pilz@Eng@Banyan)
    gkd@wpi.wpi.edu (Gregory K Doerschler)
    gmorris@nasamail.nasa.gov (GARY A. MORRIS)
    gopstein@helix.squibb.com
    Greg DesBrisay <gd@erg.sri.com>
    grm@fig.cray.com (Greg Mansfield)
    gt4393c@prism.gatech.edu
    halley!rhino!watson@cs.utexas.edu (William Watson)
    harrism@dg-rtp.dg.com (Mike Harris)
    Harry P Bloomberg <hpb@unix.cis.pitt.edu>
    harvee!esj@uunet.UU.NET (Eric S Johansson)
    heiby@chg.mcd.mot.com (Ron Heiby)
    Henk Peek <henkp@nikhefk.nikhef.nl>
    Henry Black <henryb@hpspdra.spd.hp.com>
    "Henry T. Rand" (AED-FD) <hrand@PICA.ARMY.MIL>
    hera!rcmcc@bellcore.bellcore.com (McConnell, Ronald C., W2IOL) hitz@tsar.enet.dec.com
    Ignatius Tan <ig@siesoft.co.uk>
    indep1!pete@uunet.UU.NET (Peter Franks)
    Jay Maynard <jmaynard@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu>
    jcv27%CAS.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
    Jeff Rininger <jeffr@erg.sri.com>
    Jim Hollenback <holly@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com>
    Joe Dubner <dubner@hpspklu.spk.hp.com>
    Joe Hamlin <hamlin@blackbird.afit.af.mil>
    John Gruber<gruber@andy.bgsu.edu>
    John Murray <murray@sun13.scri.fsu.edu>
    John.J.Ackley@equi.com
    "Jon W. McCombie" <jmccombi@BBN.COM>
    Jordan Brown <jbrown@prodnet.la.locus.com>
    jre@sactoh0.SAC.CA.US (Jim Earl)
    jrm@col400.att.com (J. R. Massi)
    julian@bongo.info.com (Julian Macassey)
    jvm@alux2.att.com (James V Morgan, Jr)
    kahrs@research.att.com
    kaminski@uoftcse.cse.UTOLEDO.edu
    ked01@juts.ccc.amdahl.com (Kim DeVaughn)
    Kevin Quinlan <kquinlan%cvedg.prime.com@RELAY.CS.NET>
    lane@tc.fluke.COM (Lane Holdcroft)
    larson@snmp.sri.com (Alan Larson)
    lcz@sat.datapoint.com (Lee Ziegenhals)
    linimon@chinacat.unicom.com (Mark Linimon)
    luru@stekt.oulu.fi (Ari Husa OH8NUP)
    lyndon@cs.athabascau.ca (Lyndon Nerenberg)
    mahaun@sactoh0.SAC.CA.US (Mark A. Haun)
    mahler@usl.edu (Mahler Stephen J)
    marchant@soc1.ssl.berkeley.edu (Will Marchant)
    Matthew Allen <M.J.Allen@stl.stc.co.uk>
    mbutts@case.MENTOR.COM (Mike Butts)
    mcafee.El_Segundo@xerox.com
    mcb@presto.ig.com (Michael C. Berch)
    "Mike Beaty, Servowriter Engineering" <beaty@cxunix.enet.dec.com>
    Mike Horne <mhorne%ka7axd.tv.tek.com@RELAY.CS.NET>
    Mike Northam ext 2651 <sns4!mbn%fpssun.uucp@RELAY.CS.NET>
    Mike Weihman <mikew@hpsadpe.hp.com>
    millbrook!lrj@fibercom.com (Larry Johnson)
    msb@sq.com (Mark Brader)
    neil@wcc.oz.au (Neil Murray)
    NMR1248@SATURN.LERC.NASA.GOV
    nobody@Kodak.COM (John Spoonhower)
    "Ofer Inbar" <cos@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu>
    "Oh brave new worm to have such features in't 15-Jan-1991 1358" <taber@pstjtt.enet.dec.com>
    opel!vk2bea!michael@uunet.UU.NET
    ornitz@Kodak.COM (Barry Ornitz)
    panix!Joseph.R.Skoler@cmcl2.NYU.EDU, panix!kc2yu@cmcl2.NYU.EDU
    Paul Gerwitz <gerwitz@Kodak.COM>
    paulf@shasta.Stanford.EDU (Paul A. Flaherty)
    pbhx@midway.uchicago.edu (Peter B. Hayward)
    pgh@cs.brown.edu (Paul Howard)
    pm1@ukc.ac.uk
    polo@iceland.att.com (Mark B Colosia)
    pschleck@alf.unomaha.edu (Paul W. Schleck KD3FU) railnet!rad@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu (Rick DeMattia)
    reed@mozart.AMD.COM (David F. Reed)
    Richard H. Miller <rick@pavlov.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu>
    rja7m@surya.cs.virginia.edu
    Roger Taylor <rtaylor@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> scampbel%emdeng.dayton.ncr.com@RELAY.CS.NET
    schnell@tahoe.unr.edu (Daniel C Schnell)
    sde@larry.sal.wisc.edu (Scott Ellington)
    seanp@amix.commodore.com (Sean Petty)
    "Sid B. Bernstein" (AED-EWD|ARCS) <sidb@PICA.ARMY.MIL> skcm@echo.canberra.edu.au (Carl Makin)
    skwu@spot.Colorado.EDU (WU SHI-KUEI)
    stanley@phoenix.com (John Stanley)
    steve@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Steve Schallehn)
    stevenp@decwrl.dec.com (Steven Philipson)
    sunriv!ronh@uunet.UU.NET
    Ted Cowie <tvcent!ted@uunet.UU.NET>
    teda!jeffy@decwrl.dec.com (I know you are! But what am I?) teda!mikel@decwrl.dec.com (Mikel Lechner)
    "Thomas Stingl, DL5SBS" <STINGL%i70vca%iravcl.ira.uka.de@RELAY.CS.NET> tima@CFSMO.Honeywell.COM (Timothy D Aanerud)
    Tom Haapanen <tom@mims-iris.waterloo.edu>
    UUPETE@HELIOS.LERC.NASA.GOV
    vail@tegra.com
    Visualize Whirled Peas <brewer@anarky.enet.dec.com>
    wdh@Eng.Sun.COM (Dennis Henderson)
    weaver@news18.sfc.Sony.COM (Eric Weaver)
    "Wolfgang Tremmel, Postmaster" <tremmel%ira.uka.de@RELAY.CS.NET> wolves.uucp!ggw@mcnc.org (Gregory G. Woodbury)
    woods@eci386 (Greg A. Woods)
    wwtz@ciba-geigy.ch (Wolfgang Wetz)
    - --
    Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can jmaynard@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu | adequately be explained by stupidity.
    "Fahrvergnugen, y'all." -- Volkswagen billboard in Houston


    Path: gmdzi!unido!mcsun!sunic!uupsi!njin!rutgers!usc!wuarchive!bcm!lib!thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu
    From: jmaynard@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu (Jay Maynard)
    Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.ham-radio,rec.ham-radio.packet,rec.ham-radio.swap >Subject: SECOND CALL FOR VOTES: rec.ham-radio reorganization
    Message-ID: <4578@lib.tmc.edu>
    Date: 17 Jan 91 12:47:04 GMT
    Sender: usenet@lib.tmc.edu
    Followup-To: news.groups
    Organization: University of Texas Medical School at Houston
    Lines: 130
    Xref: gmdzi news.groups:24271 rec.ham-radio:19509 rec.ham-radio.packet:3421 rec.ham-radio.swap:920
    Nntp-Posting-Host: thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu
    Originator: jmaynard@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu

    This is a formal call for votes for the proposed reorganization of rec.ham-radio.*. The discussion period started on December 4, 1990, and
    has run for just over the required 30 days (extended from the original
    ending time of 31 December 1990 due to the Christmas and New Year's
    holidays). Please read this entire posting before sending in your
    vote; the ballot to be used is at the end. I'm processing ballots automatically, and not following the instructions below may result in
    your vote not getting counted.

    THE PROPOSAL:
    =============
    The following groups are to be renamed:
    rec.ham-radio => rec.radio.amateur.misc
    rec.ham-radio.packet => rec.radio.amateur.packet
    rec.ham-radio.swap => rec.radio.swap
    Groups will be renamed by creating the replacement group, asking site
    admins to alias the old group to the new one, and rmgrouping the old
    group after traffic in it has died down, hopefully about a month later.
    This method has been shown to work in other hierarchies.

    The following groups are to be created:
    rec.radio.amateur.policy
    This group is intended to contain any and all discussion about policy
    issues pertaining to amateur radio, including, but not limited to,
    rules, regulations, laws, and legal actions by and against amateur
    radio operators. This group is to be unmoderated.

    rec.radio.cb
    This group is intended to contain discussions related to Citizens'
    Band radio. This group will be unmoderated.

    RATIONALE:
    ==========
    1. Why move the groups at all? The primary motivation is to make it
    easier for interested people to find newsgroups related to ham radio.
    The rec.radio hierarchy was created after rec.ham-radio (net.ham-radio
    before the Great Renaming). It is an inconsistency in the namespace to
    have groups for similar purposes separated from each other, and that
    makes it harder for new users to find the desired groups. Further,
    this allows a change from ham radio to amateur radio (see next topic).

    2. Why .amateur instead of .ham? It has been pointed out in discussion
    that "ham radio" is primarily an American term, and carries little
    meaning outside the US. In addition, there are negative connotations
    attached to "ham" that don't apply to "amateur". Some confusion also
    exists in the public mind about just what a "ham radio operator" is,
    as evidenced by the occasional "ham operator jams aircraft
    frequencies!" when the person in question has never been a licensed
    amateur radio operator.

    3. Why a .policy group? A significant part of the traffic in
    rec.ham-radio is concerned with issues of policy. This includes
    substantially all of the flamage, which has in the recent past
    included such subjects as whether or not it's legal to order a pizza
    via an amateur repeater, the proposal to add a class of license that
    does not require knowledge of the International Morse Code, and the
    legality of modifying amateur equipment to transmit outside the
    amateur bands. The new group is intended to move the flames and the
    long discussions that never seem to get anywhere out of the main
    group.

    4. Why use the name .policy, instead of .rules, .regs, .regulations,
    etc.? The group is intended to contain any and all discussion about
    any policy issues pertaining to amateur radio. This includes not just
    rules and regulations of the FCC and other national regulatory bodies,
    but also laws affecting hams (such as the infamous New Jersey scanner
    law), lawsuits over nuisance issues, antenna ordinances, frequency
    coordination and band planning, and the like. .policy is the best name
    that has been suggested for the group out of many possibilities.

    5. Why not a .tech group? There are two reasons for this one. The
    first is that there's more to ham radio that's non-inflammatory than
    just technical discussions, and the object of a new group is to move
    the flames, not run away from them. A .tech group would leave those of
    us who are interested in more than just technical discussions, yet not
    in the seemingly endless legal discussions, left to wade through the
    flames. Second, Brian Kantor, who maintains the info-hams mailing
    list, has said that info-hams will continue to gateway rec.ham-radio
    (and, presumably, rec.radio.amateur.misc) only, and moving the
    technical postings off would deprive those on the mailing list.

    6. Why create a .cb group? There is currently no place for Citizens' Band
    radio discussions explicit in the hierarchy. These postings currently wind
    up in rec.ham-radio, where they tend to generate flamage all out of
    proportion to their volume.


    THE MECHANICS OF THE VOTE:
    ==========================

    The voting period will run from Monday, 7 January 1991 until Monday, 28
    January 1991. Only votes received during that period will be counted.
    Each proposal is a separate vote, and must be voted on separately under
    the Guidelines for Group Creation (which have been applied to renames as
    well in the past).

    Please edit and send in the ballot below. Each ballot will be stripped of
    all but the From: line and the lines containing valid votes by an automatic process; I won't see any comments included. No individual acknowledgments
    will be mailed. Votes will be acknowledged en masse in a posting on Thursday, 18 January 1991, and complete vote results will be posted on Tuesday, 29 January 1991.

    For each proposal, indicate your choice of a yes vote or a no vote by
    placing a Y or N, respectively, at the beginning of the line. The first character on the line that is either a Y or an N (case doesn't matter)
    will be counted as your vote on that proposal. You may abstain from any particular vote by deleting the line entirely from the ballot. An invalid
    line (one not containing a Y or an N before the "Proposal #n:" tag) will be treated as an abstention, as well. Mail the completed ballot to me at
    this address, jmaynard@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu, with the characters "VOTE" somewhere in the Subject: line. (Again, case doesn't matter.) Replying to
    this message with your newsreader's mail reply command ("R" in rn, readnews, vnews, and vn; I don't know nn's commamd) will work fine. Votes posted to
    the net will be summarily ignored and may earn the poster a free flame from
    the net.police.

    THE BALLOT:
    ===========
    ? Proposal #1: Rename rec.ham-radio to rec.radio.amateur.misc
    ? Proposal #2: Rename rec.ham-radio.packet to rec.radio.amateur.packet
    ? Proposal #3: Rename rec.ham-radio.swap to rec.radio.swap
    ? Proposal #4: Create rec.radio.amateur.policy
    ? Proposal #5: Create rec.radio.cb


    - --
    Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can jmaynard@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu | adequately be explained by stupidity.
    "Fahrvergnugen, y'all." -- Volkswagen billboard in Houston


    Path: gmdzi!unido!fauern!ira.uka.de!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!bcm!lib!thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu
    From: jmaynard@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu (Jay Maynard)
    Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.ham-radio,rec.ham-radio.packet,rec.ham-radio.swap >Subject: VOTE RESULTS: rec.ham-radio reorganization
    Message-ID: <4600@lib.tmc.edu>
    Date: 28 Jan 91 12:22:34 GMT
    Sender: usenet@lib.tmc.edu
    Followup-To: news.groups
    Organization: University of Texas Medical School at Houston
    Lines: 280
    Xref: gmdzi news.groups:24389 rec.ham-radio:19908 rec.ham-radio.packet:3466 rec.ham-radio.swap:941
    Nntp-Posting-Host: thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu
    Originator: jmaynard@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu

    The voting period for the rec.ham-radio.* reorganization is now over.
    The proposals to be voted on were:
    Proposal #1: Rename rec.ham-radio to rec.radio.amateur.misc
    Proposal #2: Rename rec.ham-radio.packet to rec.radio.amateur.packet
    Proposal #3: Rename rec.ham-radio.swap to rec.radio.swap
    Proposal #4: Create rec.radio.amateur.policy
    Proposal #5: Create rec.radio.cb

    The results are as follows:
    Proposal 1: 172 to 47...margin 125, percent in favor 78.538813
    Proposal 2: 178 to 42...margin 136, percent in favor 80.909091
    Proposal 3: 177 to 44...margin 133, percent in favor 80.090498
    Proposal 4: 173 to 44...margin 129, percent in favor 79.723502
    Proposal 5: 160 to 49...margin 111, percent in favor 76.555024

    As you can see, all five proposals have passed, since all five have a margin
    of yes votes over no votes of greater than 100, and all five have more than
    67% (2/3) of the votes cast being yes votes.

    The five-day period of checking for duplicates and invalid votes begins as of the time that these results appear in news.announce.newgroups, per the Guidelines for Newsgroup Creation. If no problems that change the outcome of any proposal are found, then I will ask Eliot Lear to issue newgroup messages for rec.radio.amateur.misc, rec.radio.amateur.packet, rec.radio.swap, rec.radio.amateur.policy, and rec.radio.cb. In a month, I will ask him to repost the newgroup messages, and post rmgroups for rec.ham-radio, rec.ham-radio.packet, and rec.ham-radio.swap. I would ask sysadmins on the
    net to alias rec.ham-radio to rec.radio.amateur.misc, rec.ham-radio.packet to rec.radio.amateur.packet, and rec.ham-radio.swap to rec.radio.swap when they receive the newgroup messages - but not before.

    Thanks go to all who provided input into the process of shaping this proposal. It started out as one man's idea, but quickly grew to encompass just about every input even remotely compatible with the overall objective. Thanks also
    go to all who voted - as you can see, every vote counts, as just 6 votes the other way would have defeated rec.radio.cb.

    For those who keep track of when votes are received, 85 were received the
    first day, 128 by the fourth, 148 by the tenth, and 33 the day after the
    second call for votes was posted. Only 14 were received in the last week.

    I wound up writing a shell script to massage ballots received into the format you see below, and an awk program to generate the report at the top of this message. Anyone who's interested in those pieces of cruft (really, they're
    not pretty - they just work), just drop me a note and I'll pass them along.

    The votes received are listed below: (Y=yes, N=no, A=abstain)

    +---------Proposal #1
    | +-------Proposal #2
    | | +-----Proposal #3
    | | | +---Proposal #4
    | | | | +-Proposal #5
    V V V V V From: line as received
    Y Y Y Y Y " 24298, GIBBONS, JOHN" <abvax!iccgcc.DNET!gibbonsj@uunet.UU.NET>
    N N N N N 07-Jan-1991 1026 <bosslet@mr4dec.enet.dec.com>
    N N N N N abe@mace.cc.purdue.edu
    N Y Y Y Y adec23!mark@pembina.cs.UAlberta.CA
    Y Y Y Y Y adept!alan@cs.utexas.edu (Alan Ruffer)
    Y Y Y Y Y adept!jim@cs.utexas.edu (Jim Benoit)
    Y Y Y Y Y adept!lynn@cs.utexas.edu (Evelyn Ruffer)
    Y Y Y N A adkins@ti-csl.csc.ti.com
    Y Y Y Y A Andreas Bjorklind <abj@IDA.LiU.SE>
    N N N N A Andrew Siegel <abs@nbc1.ge.com>
    Y Y Y Y Y anicon!doug (Doug Grant)
    Y Y Y Y Y autodesk!megalon!abeals@fernwood.mpk.ca.us (Only 345 more shopping days until Christmas)
    Y Y Y N Y barry@tanstaafl!edgar.Mn.Org (barry)
    N Y N Y Y Bernhard Buettner <buettneb@informatik.tu-muenchen.dbp.de>
    N N N N N bill@mousetrap.canton.mi.us (William S. Johnston)
    Y Y Y Y Y biocca@bevsun.bev.lbl.gov (Alan Biocca)
    Y Y Y Y Y Bob Manson <manson@cis.ohio-state.edu>
    Y Y Y Y N Bob Witte <bobw@col.hp.com>
    Y Y Y N N BOB WOOD WA7MXZ <BOBW@cc.usu.edu>
    Y Y Y Y Y Bob_Dixon@osu.edu
    Y Y Y Y Y bootsie!olson (Eric K. Olson)
    Y Y Y Y Y "Brian Bartholomew" <bb@loggerhead.cis.ufl.edu>
    Y Y Y Y Y brian@nucleus.AMD.COM (Brian McMinn)
    N N N N N brian@ucsd.edu (Brian Kantor)
    Y Y Y Y Y brighton@vicom.com (Bill Carson)
    Y Y Y Y A brosen@BBN.COM
    Y Y Y Y Y Charles J. Guest <chguest@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov>
    Y Y Y Y A Charley Kline <c-kline@uiuc.edu>
    N N N N N Charlie Panek <charlier@lsid.hp.com>
    Y Y Y Y Y Charlie Root <root@utcrt2.utc.chalmers.se>
    Y Y Y Y Y chk@alias (C. Harald Koch)
    Y Y N Y N chuckb@amc.com (Chuck Baldwin)
    Y Y Y Y Y chuckb@tc.fluke.COM (Chuck Bowden)
    Y Y Y Y Y connolly%livy@cs.umass.edu (Christopher Connolly)
    Y Y Y Y Y "CPT Douglas E. Nielsen" <ASQK-DB-CO@taegu-emh1.army.mil>
    Y Y Y Y Y cs00jmc@unccvax.uncc.edu (John Covington WN4BBJ)
    Y Y N N Y ctuel@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU (Cliff Tuel)
    Y Y Y Y Y curt@cynic.wimsey.bc.ca (Curt Sampson)
    Y Y Y Y Y daves@amc.com (Dave Schmidt)
    Y Y Y Y Y David Wright <D.W.Wright@stl.stc.co.uk>
    N N N N Y dc@caveat.berkeley.edu (Dave Cottingham)
    Y Y Y Y Y dem@meaddata.com (David Myers)
    Y Y Y Y Y Denny Lim <dlim@BBN.COM>
    Y Y Y Y Y dillon@pa.dec.com (John Dillon)
    Y Y Y Y N Don_E_Jacob@cup.portal.com
    N N N N Y Doug Faunt N6TQS 415-688-8269 <faunt@cisco.com>
    N Y Y Y Y Doug.Tabor@Central.Sun.COM (Douglas Tabor [Sun Colorado Commercial SE])
    Y Y Y Y Y drw@css.itd.umich.edu
    Y Y Y Y Y Duncan Elliott <dunc@eecg.toronto.edu>
    Y Y Y Y Y dveditz@dbase.A-T.COM (Dan Veditz)
    Y Y Y Y Y eakin@rcf.rsmas.miami.edu
    N N N N Y ean@gvlv3.GVL.Unisys.COM (Ed Naratil)
    Y Y Y Y Y Ed Hall <edhall@rand.org>
    N N N N Y eddy@jafus.mi.org (Eddy J. Gurney)
    Y Y Y Y Y electro!carlo@watcgl.waterloo.edu (Carlo Sgro)
    Y Y Y Y Y emanuele@to.sem.it (Emanuele Girlando)
    Y Y Y Y Y emmayche@dhw68k.cts.COM (Mark Hartman)
    Y Y Y Y Y eplunix!ijs@EDDIE.MIT.EDU (Ishmael J. Stefanov-Wagner)
    Y Y Y Y N Eric Peterson <eric@prodnet.la.locus.com>
    N N N N Y FINBERG%ebvxcl.draper.com@RELAY.CS.NET
    Y Y Y Y Y fk@rci.dk (Flemming Kraglund)
    Y Y Y Y Y foxworth@bnlls1.nsls.bnl.gov (Bob Foxworth)
    N N N N N Fred.Lloyd@West.Sun.COM (Fred Lloyd SUN Phoenix SE 602-275-4242)
    Y Y Y Y A fritz@caf.MIT.EDU (Frederick Herrmann)
    Y Y Y Y N Gary Bridges <bridges@isuee1.ee.iastate.edu>
    Y Y Y Y N "Gary D. Archer" <archer@stlvm2.iinus1.ibm.com>
    Y Y Y Y Y Gary.Reardon@f131.n321.z1.fidonet.org (Gary Reardon)
    Y Y Y Y Y gary@sci34hub.sci.com (Gary Heston)
    N N N N N gary@ssd.Kodak.Com (Gary M. Diana (645))
    Y Y Y Y Y gbastin@x102c.ess.harris.com (Gary Bastin 60293)
    Y Y Y Y Y gemed!uunet!crdgw1.ge.com!med.ge.com!sol!woskoff@crdgw1.ge.com
    Y Y Y Y Y georgep%sail.labs.tek.com@RELAY.CS.NET
    Y Y Y Y Y Gerben 'P' Vos <gpvos@cs.vu.nl>
    Y Y Y Y Y Gerrit Polder <GERRIT.POLDER%CRZ.AGRO.nl@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
    Y Y Y Y Y gil@banyan.banyan.com (Gil Pilz@Eng@Banyan)
    Y Y Y Y N gkd@wpi.wpi.edu (Gregory K Doerschler)
    Y Y Y Y Y gmorris@nasamail.nasa.gov (GARY A. MORRIS)
    Y Y Y Y N gopstein@helix.squibb.com
    Y Y Y Y Y grahamw@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (William Graham)
    Y Y Y Y Y Greg DesBrisay <gd@erg.sri.com>
    Y Y Y Y Y grm@fig.cray.com (Greg Mansfield)
    Y Y Y N N gt4393c@prism.gatech.edu
    A A Y A A halley!rhino!watson@cs.utexas.edu (William Watson)
    Y Y Y Y Y Harri Salminen <hks@nic.funet.fi>
    Y Y Y Y Y harrism@dg-rtp.dg.com (Mike Harris)
    Y Y Y Y Y Harry P Bloomberg <hpb@unix.cis.pitt.edu>
    Y Y Y Y Y harvee!esj@uunet.UU.NET (Eric S Johansson)
    Y Y Y Y Y heiby@chg.mcd.mot.com (Ron Heiby)
    Y Y Y Y Y Henk Peek <henkp@nikhefk.nikhef.nl>
    N Y Y Y Y Henry Black <henryb@hpspdra.spd.hp.com>
    N N N N N "Henry T. Rand" (AED-FD) <hrand@PICA.ARMY.MIL>
    Y Y Y Y Y hera!rcmcc@bellcore.bellcore.com (McConnell, Ronald C., W2IOL)
    Y Y Y Y Y hitz@tsar.enet.dec.com
    Y Y Y Y Y hkhan@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Hamid N. Khan)
    A Y Y Y Y hpa@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Peter Anvin)
    Y Y Y Y Y Ignatius Tan <ig@siesoft.co.uk>
    Y Y Y Y Y indep1!pete@uunet.UU.NET (Peter Franks)
    N N N N Y Jay Kesterson <jayk@hpfcso.fc.hp.com>
    Y Y Y Y Y Jay Maynard <jmaynard@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu>
    Y Y Y Y Y jcv27%CAS.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
    N N N N N Jeff Rininger <jeffr@erg.sri.com>
    N N N Y Y jerrys@canada.sbi.com (Jerry Simonowits)
    N N N Y Y Jim Hollenback <holly@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com>
    N N N N N jim.grubs@w8grt.fidonet.org (Jim Grubs)
    Y Y Y Y Y Joe Dubner <dubner@hpspklu.spk.hp.com>
    Y Y Y Y Y Joe Hamlin <hamlin@blackbird.afit.af.mil>
    Y Y Y Y Y John Gruber<gruber@andy.bgsu.edu>
    Y Y Y Y Y John Murray <murray@sun13.scri.fsu.edu>
    N N N N N John Schmidt <jws@hpfclw.fc.hp.com>
    Y Y Y Y Y John.J.Ackley@equi.com
    Y Y Y Y Y "Jon W. McCombie" <jmccombi@BBN.COM>

    [continued in next message]

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From He@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 27 05:13:34 2022
    Paul W. Schleck kirjutas Neljapäev, 28. jaanuar 2021 kl 16:13:49 UTC+2:
    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    The following articles from 30 years ago, currently early 1991, are
    taken from the Internet Archive at:

    https://archive.org/download/usenet-rec/rec.ham-radio.mbox.zip


    Path: gmdzi!unido!mcsun!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!ucsd!pacbell.com!ames!eos!shelby!pa...@shasta.Stanford.EDU
    From: pa...@shasta.Stanford.EDU (paulf)
    Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.ham-radio
    Subject: CALL FOR DISCUSSION: rec.ham-radio reorganization
    Message-ID: <1...@shasta.Stanford.EDU>
    Date: 4 Dec 90 17:26:04 GMT
    Organization: The Three Packeteers
    Lines: 41
    Xref: gmdzi news.groups:23265 rec.ham-radio:17431
    Posted: Tue Dec 4 18:26:04 1990

    Jay Maynard and I propose the following reorganization of the rec.ham-radio hierarchy:

    PROPOSED ADDITIONS:

    1. rec.radio.ham

    "A General newsgroup for discussions about amateur radio."

    2. rec.radio.ham.legal

    "A newsgroup for the discussion of legal aspects of amateur radio."

    3. rec.radio.ham.packet

    "A newsgroup for discussions about amateur packet radio."

    4. rec.radio.ham.swap

    "A forsale group for the rec.radio.ham hierarchy."

    PROPOSED DELETIONS:

    1. rec.ham-radio

    Now superseded by rec.radio.ham and rec.radio.ham.legal.

    2. rec.ham-radio.packet

    Superseded by rec.radio.ham.packet

    3. rec.ham-radio.swap

    Replaced by rec.radio.ham.swap


    Commentary Period: Dec. 4 -14, 1990


    - -=Paul Flaherty, N9FZX | Without KILL files,
    - ->pa...@shasta.Stanford.EDU | life itself would be impossible.


    Path: gmdzi!unido!mcsun!sunic!uupsi!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!apple!bionet!turbo.bio.net!lear
    From: jmay...@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu (Jay Maynard)
    Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,rec.ham-radio,rec.ham-radio.swap,rec.ham-radio.packet
    Subject: CALL FOR VOTES: reorganization of rec.ham-radio.*
    Message-ID: <Jan.6.23.53....@turbo.bio.net>
    Date: 7 Jan 91 07:51:50 GMT
    Sender: le...@turbo.bio.net
    Reply-To: jmay...@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu
    Followup-To: news.groups
    Lines: 129
    Approved: le...@turbo.bio.net
    Xref: gmdzi news.announce.newgroups:785 rec.ham-radio:18872 rec.ham-radio.swap:900 rec.ham-radio.packet:3355

    This is a formal call for votes for the proposed reorganization of rec.ham-radio.*. The discussion period started on December 4, 1990, and
    has run for just over the required 30 days (extended from the original ending time of 31 December 1990 due to the Christmas and New Year's holidays). Please read this entire posting before sending in your
    vote; the ballot to be used is at the end.

    THE PROPOSAL:
    =============
    The following groups are to be renamed:
    rec.ham-radio => rec.radio.amateur.misc
    rec.ham-radio.packet => rec.radio.amateur.packet
    rec.ham-radio.swap => rec.radio.swap
    Groups will be renamed by creating the replacement group, asking site
    admins to alias the old group to the new one, and rmgrouping the old
    group after traffic in it has died down, hopefully about a month later.
    This method has been shown to work in other hierarchies.

    The following groups are to be created:
    rec.radio.amateur.policy
    This group is intended to contain any and all discussion about policy
    issues pertaining to amateur radio, including, but not limited to,
    rules, regulations, laws, and legal actions by and against amateur
    radio operators. This group is to be unmoderated.

    rec.radio.cb
    This group is intended to contain discussions related to Citizens'
    Band radio. This group will be unmoderated.

    RATIONALE:
    ==========
    1. Why move the groups at all? The primary motivation is to make it
    easier for interested people to find newsgroups related to ham radio.
    The rec.radio hierarchy was created after rec.ham-radio (net.ham-radio before the Great Renaming). It is an inconsistency in the namespace to
    have groups for similar purposes separated from each other, and that
    makes it harder for new users to find the desired groups. Further,
    this allows a change from ham radio to amateur radio (see next topic).

    2. Why .amateur instead of .ham? It has been pointed out in discussion
    that "ham radio" is primarily an American term, and carries little
    meaning outside the US. In addition, there are negative connotations attached to "ham" that don't apply to "amateur". Some confusion also
    exists in the public mind about just what a "ham radio operator" is,
    as evidenced by the occasional "ham operator jams aircraft
    frequencies!" when the person in question has never been a licensed
    amateur radio operator.

    3. Why a .policy group? A significant part of the traffic in
    rec.ham-radio is concerned with issues of policy. This includes substantially all of the flamage, which has in the recent past
    included such subjects as whether or not it's legal to order a pizza
    via an amateur repeater, the proposal to add a class of license that
    does not require knowledge of the International Morse Code, and the
    legality of modifying amateur equipment to transmit outside the
    amateur bands. The new group is intended to move the flames and the
    long discussions that never seem to get anywhere out of the main
    group.

    4. Why use the name .policy, instead of .rules, .regs, .regulations,
    etc.? The group is intended to contain any and all discussion about
    any policy issues pertaining to amateur radio. This includes not just
    rules and regulations of the FCC and other national regulatory bodies,
    but also laws affecting hams (such as the infamous New Jersey scanner
    law), lawsuits over nuisance issues, antenna ordinances, frequency coordination and band planning, and the like. .policy is the best name
    that has been suggested for the group out of many possibilities.

    5. Why not a .tech group? There are two reasons for this one. The
    first is that there's more to ham radio that's non-inflammatory than
    just technical discussions, and the object of a new group is to move
    the flames, not run away from them. A .tech group would leave those of
    us who are interested in more than just technical discussions, yet not
    in the seemingly endless legal discussions, left to wade through the
    flames. Second, Brian Kantor, who maintains the info-hams mailing
    list, has said that info-hams will continue to gateway rec.ham-radio
    (and, presumably, rec.radio.amateur.misc) only, and moving the
    technical postings off would deprive those on the mailing list.

    6. Why create a .cb group? There is currently no place for Citizens' Band radio discussions explicit in the hierarchy. These postings currently wind up in rec.ham-radio, where they tend to generate flamage all out of proportion to their volume.


    THE MECHANICS OF THE VOTE:
    ==========================

    The voting period will run from Monday, 7 January 1991 until Monday, 28 January 1991. Only votes received during that period will be counted.
    Each proposal is a separate vote, and must be voted on separately under
    the Guidelines for Group Creation (which have been applied to renames as well in the past).

    Please edit and send in the ballot below. Each ballot will be stripped of all but the From: line and the lines containing valid votes by an automatic process; I won't see any comments included. No individual acknowledgments will be mailed. Votes will be acknowledged en masse in a posting on Thursday,
    18 January 1991, and complete vote results will be posted on Tuesday, 29 January 1991.

    For each proposal, indicate your choice of a yes vote or a no vote by placing a Y or N, respectively, at the beginning of the line. The first character on the line that is either a Y or an N (case doesn't matter)
    will be counted as your vote on that proposal. You may abstain from any particular vote by deleting the line entirely from the ballot. An invalid line (one not containing a Y or an N before the "Proposal #n:" tag) will be treated as an abstention, as well. Mail the completed ballot to me at
    this address, jmay...@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu, with the characters "VOTE" somewhere in the Subject: line. (Again, case doesn't matter.) Replying to this message with your newsreader's mail reply command ("R" in rn, readnews, vnews, and vn; I don't know nn's commamd) will work fine. Votes posted to the net will be summarily ignored and may earn the poster a free flame from the net.police.

    THE BALLOT:
    ===========
    ? Proposal #1: Rename rec.ham-radio to rec.radio.amateur.misc
    ? Proposal #2: Rename rec.ham-radio.packet to rec.radio.amateur.packet
    ? Proposal #3: Rename rec.ham-radio.swap to rec.radio.swap
    ? Proposal #4: Create rec.radio.amateur.policy
    ? Proposal #5: Create rec.radio.cb



    - --
    Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can jmay...@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu | adequately be explained by stupidity.
    "I smell a scientific fish." -- Chip Salzenberg


    Path: gmdzi!unido!mcsun!sunic!uupsi!njin!rutgers!usc!wuarchive!bcm!lib!thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu
    From: jmay...@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu (Jay Maynard)
    Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.ham-radio,rec.ham-radio.packet,rec.ham-radio.swap
    Subject: MASS ACKNOWLEDGMENT: rec.ham-radio reorganization
    Message-ID: <45...@lib.tmc.edu>
    Date: 17 Jan 91 12:38:01 GMT
    Sender: use...@lib.tmc.edu
    Followup-To: news.groups
    Organization: University of Texas Medical School at Houston
    Lines: 157
    Xref: gmdzi news.groups:24270 rec.ham-radio:19508 rec.ham-radio.packet:3420 rec.ham-radio.swap:919
    Nntp-Posting-Host: thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu
    Originator: jmay...@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu


    Votes have been received from the following, as of 6 AM Central on 17 January
    1990. A companion posting describes the reorganization, and contains the ballot used.

    " 24298, GIBBONS, JOHN" <abvax!iccgcc.DNET!gibb...@uunet.UU.NET>
    07-Jan-1991 1026 <bos...@mr4dec.enet.dec.com> adec23!ma...@pembina.cs.UAlberta.CA
    adk...@ti-csl.csc.ti.com
    anicon!doug (Doug Grant)
    autodesk!megalon!abe...@fernwood.mpk.ca.us (Only 345 more shopping days until Christmas)
    barry@tanstaafl!edgar.Mn.Org (barry)
    bi...@mousetrap.canton.mi.us (William S. Johnston)
    bio...@bevsun.bev.lbl.gov (Alan Biocca)
    Bob Manson <man...@cis.ohio-state.edu>
    Bob Witte <bo...@col.hp.com>
    Bob_...@osu.edu
    "Brian Bartholomew" <b...@loggerhead.cis.ufl.edu>
    br...@ucsd.edu (Brian Kantor)
    brig...@vicom.com (Bill Carson)
    bro...@BBN.COM
    Charles J. Guest <chg...@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov>
    Charley Kline <c-k...@uiuc.edu>
    chk@alias (C. Harald Koch)
    chu...@amc.com (Chuck Baldwin)
    "CPT Douglas E. Nielsen" <ASQK-...@taegu-emh1.army.mil> cs0...@unccvax.uncc.edu (John Covington WN4BBJ)
    ct...@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU (Cliff Tuel)
    cu...@cynic.wimsey.bc.ca (Curt Sampson)
    da...@amc.com (Dave Schmidt)
    David Wright <D.W.W...@stl.stc.co.uk>
    d...@caveat.berkeley.edu (Dave Cottingham)
    d...@meaddata.com (David Myers)
    dil...@pa.dec.com (John Dillon)
    e...@gvlv3.GVL.Unisys.COM (Ed Naratil)
    Ed Hall <edh...@rand.org>
    ed...@jafus.mi.org (Eddy J. Gurney)
    electro!ca...@watcgl.waterloo.edu (Carlo Sgro)
    eman...@to.sem.it (Emanuele Girlando)
    emma...@dhw68k.cts.COM (Mark Hartman)
    Eric Peterson <er...@prodnet.la.locus.com>
    FINBERG%ebvxcl.d...@RELAY.CS.NET
    foxw...@bnlls1.nsls.bnl.gov (Bob Foxworth)
    fr...@caf.MIT.EDU (Frederick Herrmann)
    Gary Bridges <bri...@isuee1.ee.iastate.edu>
    ga...@sci34hub.sci.com (Gary Heston)
    ga...@ssd.Kodak.Com (Gary M. Diana (645)) gemed!uunet!crdgw1.ge.com!med.ge.com!sol!wos...@crdgw1.ge.com
    Gerben 'P' Vos <gp...@cs.vu.nl>
    Gerrit Polder <GERRIT.POLDER%CRZ.A...@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> g...@banyan.banyan.com (Gil Pilz@Eng@Banyan)
    g...@wpi.wpi.edu (Gregory K Doerschler)
    gmo...@nasamail.nasa.gov (GARY A. MORRIS)
    gops...@helix.squibb.com
    Greg DesBrisay <g...@erg.sri.com>
    g...@fig.cray.com (Greg Mansfield)
    gt4...@prism.gatech.edu
    halley!rhino!wat...@cs.utexas.edu (William Watson)
    har...@dg-rtp.dg.com (Mike Harris)
    Harry P Bloomberg <h...@unix.cis.pitt.edu>
    harvee!e...@uunet.UU.NET (Eric S Johansson)
    he...@chg.mcd.mot.com (Ron Heiby)
    Henk Peek <he...@nikhefk.nikhef.nl>
    Henry Black <hen...@hpspdra.spd.hp.com>
    "Henry T. Rand" (AED-FD) <hr...@PICA.ARMY.MIL> hera!rc...@bellcore.bellcore.com (McConnell, Ronald C., W2IOL) hi...@tsar.enet.dec.com
    Ignatius Tan <i...@siesoft.co.uk>
    indep1!pe...@uunet.UU.NET (Peter Franks)
    Jay Maynard <jmay...@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu>
    jcv27%CAS.B...@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
    Jeff Rininger <je...@erg.sri.com>
    Jim Hollenback <ho...@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com>
    Joe Dubner <dub...@hpspklu.spk.hp.com>
    Joe Hamlin <ham...@blackbird.afit.af.mil>
    John Gruber<gru...@andy.bgsu.edu>
    John Murray <mur...@sun13.scri.fsu.edu>
    John.J...@equi.com
    "Jon W. McCombie" <jmcc...@BBN.COM>
    Jordan Brown <jbr...@prodnet.la.locus.com>
    j...@sactoh0.SAC.CA.US (Jim Earl)
    j...@col400.att.com (J. R. Massi)
    jul...@bongo.info.com (Julian Macassey)
    j...@alux2.att.com (James V Morgan, Jr)
    ka...@research.att.com
    kami...@uoftcse.cse.UTOLEDO.edu
    ke...@juts.ccc.amdahl.com (Kim DeVaughn)
    Kevin Quinlan <kquinlan%cvedg.p...@RELAY.CS.NET>
    la...@tc.fluke.COM (Lane Holdcroft)
    lar...@snmp.sri.com (Alan Larson)
    l...@sat.datapoint.com (Lee Ziegenhals)
    lin...@chinacat.unicom.com (Mark Linimon)
    lu...@stekt.oulu.fi (Ari Husa OH8NUP)
    lyn...@cs.athabascau.ca (Lyndon Nerenberg)
    mah...@sactoh0.SAC.CA.US (Mark A. Haun)
    mah...@usl.edu (Mahler Stephen J)
    marc...@soc1.ssl.berkeley.edu (Will Marchant)
    Matthew Allen <M.J....@stl.stc.co.uk>
    mbu...@case.MENTOR.COM (Mike Butts)
    mcafee.E...@xerox.com
    m...@presto.ig.com (Michael C. Berch)
    "Mike Beaty, Servowriter Engineering" <be...@cxunix.enet.dec.com>
    Mike Horne <mhorne%ka7axd.t...@RELAY.CS.NET>
    Mike Northam ext 2651 <sns4!mbn%fpssu...@RELAY.CS.NET>
    Mike Weihman <mi...@hpsadpe.hp.com>
    millbrook!l...@fibercom.com (Larry Johnson)
    m...@sq.com (Mark Brader)
    ne...@wcc.oz.au (Neil Murray)
    NMR...@SATURN.LERC.NASA.GOV
    nob...@Kodak.COM (John Spoonhower)
    "Ofer Inbar" <c...@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu>
    "Oh brave new worm to have such features in't 15-Jan-1991 1358" <ta...@pstjtt.enet.dec.com>
    opel!vk2bea!mic...@uunet.UU.NET
    orn...@Kodak.COM (Barry Ornitz)
    panix!Joseph....@cmcl2.NYU.EDU, panix!kc...@cmcl2.NYU.EDU
    Paul Gerwitz <ger...@Kodak.COM>
    pa...@shasta.Stanford.EDU (Paul A. Flaherty)
    pb...@midway.uchicago.edu (Peter B. Hayward)
    p...@cs.brown.edu (Paul Howard)
    p...@ukc.ac.uk
    po...@iceland.att.com (Mark B Colosia)
    psch...@alf.unomaha.edu (Paul W. Schleck KD3FU) railnet!r...@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu (Rick DeMattia)
    re...@mozart.AMD.COM (David F. Reed)
    Richard H. Miller <ri...@pavlov.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu> rj...@surya.cs.virginia.edu
    Roger Taylor <rta...@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
    scampbel%emdeng.day...@RELAY.CS.NET
    sch...@tahoe.unr.edu (Daniel C Schnell)
    s...@larry.sal.wisc.edu (Scott Ellington)
    se...@amix.commodore.com (Sean Petty)
    "Sid B. Bernstein" (AED-EWD|ARCS) <si...@PICA.ARMY.MIL> sk...@echo.canberra.edu.au (Carl Makin)
    sk...@spot.Colorado.EDU (WU SHI-KUEI)
    sta...@phoenix.com (John Stanley)
    st...@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Steve Schallehn)
    ste...@decwrl.dec.com (Steven Philipson)
    sunriv!ro...@uunet.UU.NET
    Ted Cowie <tvcent!t...@uunet.UU.NET>
    teda!je...@decwrl.dec.com (I know you are! But what am I?) teda!mi...@decwrl.dec.com (Mikel Lechner)
    "Thomas Stingl, DL5SBS" <STINGL%i70vca%iravcl.i...@RELAY.CS.NET> ti...@CFSMO.Honeywell.COM (Timothy D Aanerud)
    Tom Haapanen <t...@mims-iris.waterloo.edu>
    UUP...@HELIOS.LERC.NASA.GOV
    va...@tegra.com
    Visualize Whirled Peas <bre...@anarky.enet.dec.com>
    w...@Eng.Sun.COM (Dennis Henderson)
    wea...@news18.sfc.Sony.COM (Eric Weaver)
    "Wolfgang Tremmel, Postmaster" <tremmel%ira.u...@RELAY.CS.NET> wolves.uucp!g...@mcnc.org (Gregory G. Woodbury)
    woods@eci386 (Greg A. Woods)
    ww...@ciba-geigy.ch (Wolfgang Wetz)
    - --
    Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can jmay...@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu | adequately be explained by stupidity. "Fahrvergnugen, y'all." -- Volkswagen billboard in Houston


    Path: gmdzi!unido!mcsun!sunic!uupsi!njin!rutgers!usc!wuarchive!bcm!lib!thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu
    From: jmay...@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu (Jay Maynard)
    Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.ham-radio,rec.ham-radio.packet,rec.ham-radio.swap
    Subject: SECOND CALL FOR VOTES: rec.ham-radio reorganization
    Message-ID: <45...@lib.tmc.edu>
    Date: 17 Jan 91 12:47:04 GMT
    Sender: use...@lib.tmc.edu
    Followup-To: news.groups
    Organization: University of Texas Medical School at Houston
    Lines: 130
    Xref: gmdzi news.groups:24271 rec.ham-radio:19509 rec.ham-radio.packet:3421 rec.ham-radio.swap:920
    Nntp-Posting-Host: thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu
    Originator: jmay...@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu

    This is a formal call for votes for the proposed reorganization of rec.ham-radio.*. The discussion period started on December 4, 1990, and
    has run for just over the required 30 days (extended from the original ending time of 31 December 1990 due to the Christmas and New Year's holidays). Please read this entire posting before sending in your
    vote; the ballot to be used is at the end. I'm processing ballots automatically, and not following the instructions below may result in
    your vote not getting counted.

    THE PROPOSAL:
    =============
    The following groups are to be renamed:
    rec.ham-radio => rec.radio.amateur.misc
    rec.ham-radio.packet => rec.radio.amateur.packet
    rec.ham-radio.swap => rec.radio.swap
    Groups will be renamed by creating the replacement group, asking site
    admins to alias the old group to the new one, and rmgrouping the old
    group after traffic in it has died down, hopefully about a month later.
    This method has been shown to work in other hierarchies.

    The following groups are to be created:
    rec.radio.amateur.policy
    This group is intended to contain any and all discussion about policy
    issues pertaining to amateur radio, including, but not limited to,
    rules, regulations, laws, and legal actions by and against amateur
    radio operators. This group is to be unmoderated.

    rec.radio.cb
    This group is intended to contain discussions related to Citizens'
    Band radio. This group will be unmoderated.

    RATIONALE:
    ==========
    1. Why move the groups at all? The primary motivation is to make it
    easier for interested people to find newsgroups related to ham radio.
    The rec.radio hierarchy was created after rec.ham-radio (net.ham-radio before the Great Renaming). It is an inconsistency in the namespace to
    have groups for similar purposes separated from each other, and that
    makes it harder for new users to find the desired groups. Further,
    this allows a change from ham radio to amateur radio (see next topic).

    2. Why .amateur instead of .ham? It has been pointed out in discussion
    that "ham radio" is primarily an American term, and carries little
    meaning outside the US. In addition, there are negative connotations attached to "ham" that don't apply to "amateur". Some confusion also
    exists in the public mind about just what a "ham radio operator" is,
    as evidenced by the occasional "ham operator jams aircraft
    frequencies!" when the person in question has never been a licensed
    amateur radio operator.

    3. Why a .policy group? A significant part of the traffic in
    rec.ham-radio is concerned with issues of policy. This includes substantially all of the flamage, which has in the recent past
    included such subjects as whether or not it's legal to order a pizza
    via an amateur repeater, the proposal to add a class of license that
    does not require knowledge of the International Morse Code, and the
    legality of modifying amateur equipment to transmit outside the
    amateur bands. The new group is intended to move the flames and the
    long discussions that never seem to get anywhere out of the main
    group.

    4. Why use the name .policy, instead of .rules, .regs, .regulations,
    etc.? The group is intended to contain any and all discussion about
    any policy issues pertaining to amateur radio. This includes not just
    rules and regulations of the FCC and other national regulatory bodies,
    but also laws affecting hams (such as the infamous New Jersey scanner
    law), lawsuits over nuisance issues, antenna ordinances, frequency coordination and band planning, and the like. .policy is the best name
    that has been suggested for the group out of many possibilities.

    5. Why not a .tech group? There are two reasons for this one. The
    first is that there's more to ham radio that's non-inflammatory than
    just technical discussions, and the object of a new group is to move
    the flames, not run away from them. A .tech group would leave those of
    us who are interested in more than just technical discussions, yet not
    in the seemingly endless legal discussions, left to wade through the
    flames. Second, Brian Kantor, who maintains the info-hams mailing
    list, has said that info-hams will continue to gateway rec.ham-radio
    (and, presumably, rec.radio.amateur.misc) only, and moving the
    technical postings off would deprive those on the mailing list.

    6. Why create a .cb group? There is currently no place for Citizens' Band radio discussions explicit in the hierarchy. These postings currently wind up in rec.ham-radio, where they tend to generate flamage all out of proportion to their volume.


    THE MECHANICS OF THE VOTE:
    ==========================

    The voting period will run from Monday, 7 January 1991 until Monday, 28 January 1991. Only votes received during that period will be counted.
    Each proposal is a separate vote, and must be voted on separately under
    the Guidelines for Group Creation (which have been applied to renames as well in the past).

    Please edit and send in the ballot below. Each ballot will be stripped of all but the From: line and the lines containing valid votes by an automatic process; I won't see any comments included. No individual acknowledgments will be mailed. Votes will be acknowledged en masse in a posting on Thursday,
    18 January 1991, and complete vote results will be posted on Tuesday, 29 January 1991.

    For each proposal, indicate your choice of a yes vote or a no vote by placing a Y or N, respectively, at the beginning of the line. The first character on the line that is either a Y or an N (case doesn't matter)
    will be counted as your vote on that proposal. You may abstain from any particular vote by deleting the line entirely from the ballot. An invalid line (one not containing a Y or an N before the "Proposal #n:" tag) will be treated as an abstention, as well. Mail the completed ballot to me at
    this address, jmay...@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu, with the characters "VOTE" somewhere in the Subject: line. (Again, case doesn't matter.) Replying to this message with your newsreader's mail reply command ("R" in rn, readnews, vnews, and vn; I don't know nn's commamd) will work fine. Votes posted to the net will be summarily ignored and may earn the poster a free flame from the net.police.

    THE BALLOT:
    ===========
    ? Proposal #1: Rename rec.ham-radio to rec.radio.amateur.misc
    ? Proposal #2: Rename rec.ham-radio.packet to rec.radio.amateur.packet
    ? Proposal #3: Rename rec.ham-radio.swap to rec.radio.swap
    ? Proposal #4: Create rec.radio.amateur.policy
    ? Proposal #5: Create rec.radio.cb


    - --
    Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can jmay...@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu | adequately be explained by stupidity. "Fahrvergnugen, y'all." -- Volkswagen billboard in Houston


    Path: gmdzi!unido!fauern!ira.uka.de!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!bcm!lib!thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu
    From: jmay...@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu (Jay Maynard)
    Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.ham-radio,rec.ham-radio.packet,rec.ham-radio.swap
    Subject: VOTE RESULTS: rec.ham-radio reorganization
    Message-ID: <46...@lib.tmc.edu>
    Date: 28 Jan 91 12:22:34 GMT
    Sender: use...@lib.tmc.edu
    Followup-To: news.groups
    Organization: University of Texas Medical School at Houston
    Lines: 280
    Xref: gmdzi news.groups:24389 rec.ham-radio:19908 rec.ham-radio.packet:3466 rec.ham-radio.swap:941
    Nntp-Posting-Host: thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu
    Originator: jmay...@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu

    The voting period for the rec.ham-radio.* reorganization is now over.
    The proposals to be voted on were:
    Proposal #1: Rename rec.ham-radio to rec.radio.amateur.misc
    Proposal #2: Rename rec.ham-radio.packet to rec.radio.amateur.packet Proposal #3: Rename rec.ham-radio.swap to rec.radio.swap
    Proposal #4: Create rec.radio.amateur.policy
    Proposal #5: Create rec.radio.cb

    The results are as follows:
    Proposal 1: 172 to 47...margin 125, percent in favor 78.538813
    Proposal 2: 178 to 42...margin 136, percent in favor 80.909091
    Proposal 3: 177 to 44...margin 133, percent in favor 80.090498
    Proposal 4: 173 to 44...margin 129, percent in favor 79.723502
    Proposal 5: 160 to 49...margin 111, percent in favor 76.555024

    As you can see, all five proposals have passed, since all five have a margin of yes votes over no votes of greater than 100, and all five have more than 67% (2/3) of the votes cast being yes votes.

    The five-day period of checking for duplicates and invalid votes begins as of
    the time that these results appear in news.announce.newgroups, per the Guidelines for Newsgroup Creation. If no problems that change the outcome of any proposal are found, then I will ask Eliot Lear to issue newgroup messages
    for rec.radio.amateur.misc, rec.radio.amateur.packet, rec.radio.swap, rec.radio.amateur.policy, and rec.radio.cb. In a month, I will ask him to repost the newgroup messages, and post rmgroups for rec.ham-radio, rec.ham-radio.packet, and rec.ham-radio.swap. I would ask sysadmins on the net to alias rec.ham-radio to rec.radio.amateur.misc, rec.ham-radio.packet to
    rec.radio.amateur.packet, and rec.ham-radio.swap to rec.radio.swap when they receive the newgroup messages - but not before.

    Thanks go to all who provided input into the process of shaping this proposal.
    It started out as one man's idea, but quickly grew to encompass just about every input even remotely compatible with the overall objective. Thanks also go to all who voted - as you can see, every vote counts, as just 6 votes the other way would have defeated rec.radio.cb.

    For those who keep track of when votes are received, 85 were received the first day, 128 by the fourth, 148 by the tenth, and 33 the day after the second call for votes was posted. Only 14 were received in the last week.

    I wound up writing a shell script to massage ballots received into the format
    you see below, and an awk program to generate the report at the top of this message. Anyone who's interested in those pieces of cruft (really, they're not pretty - they just work), just drop me a note and I'll pass them along.

    The votes received are listed below: (Y=yes, N=no, A=abstain)

    +---------Proposal #1
    | +-------Proposal #2
    | | +-----Proposal #3
    | | | +---Proposal #4
    | | | | +-Proposal #5
    V V V V V From: line as received
    Y Y Y Y Y " 24298, GIBBONS, JOHN" <abvax!iccgcc.DNET!gibb...@uunet.UU.NET>
    N N N N N 07-Jan-1991 1026 <bos...@mr4dec.enet.dec.com>
    N N N N N a...@mace.cc.purdue.edu
    N Y Y Y Y adec23!ma...@pembina.cs.UAlberta.CA
    Y Y Y Y Y adept!al...@cs.utexas.edu (Alan Ruffer)
    Y Y Y Y Y adept!j...@cs.utexas.edu (Jim Benoit)
    Y Y Y Y Y adept!ly...@cs.utexas.edu (Evelyn Ruffer)
    Y Y Y N A adk...@ti-csl.csc.ti.com
    Y Y Y Y A Andreas Bjorklind <a...@IDA.LiU.SE>
    N N N N A Andrew Siegel <a...@nbc1.ge.com>
    Y Y Y Y Y anicon!doug (Doug Grant)
    Y Y Y Y Y autodesk!megalon!abe...@fernwood.mpk.ca.us (Only 345 more shopping days until Christmas)
    Y Y Y N Y barry@tanstaafl!edgar.Mn.Org (barry)
    N Y N Y Y Bernhard Buettner <buet...@informatik.tu-muenchen.dbp.de>
    N N N N N bi...@mousetrap.canton.mi.us (William S. Johnston)
    Y Y Y Y Y bio...@bevsun.bev.lbl.gov (Alan Biocca)
    Y Y Y Y Y Bob Manson <man...@cis.ohio-state.edu>
    Y Y Y Y N Bob Witte <bo...@col.hp.com>
    Y Y Y N N BOB WOOD WA7MXZ <BO...@cc.usu.edu>
    Y Y Y Y Y Bob_...@osu.edu
    Y Y Y Y Y bootsie!olson (Eric K. Olson)
    Y Y Y Y Y "Brian Bartholomew" <b...@loggerhead.cis.ufl.edu>
    Y Y Y Y Y br...@nucleus.AMD.COM (Brian McMinn)
    N N N N N br...@ucsd.edu (Brian Kantor)
    Y Y Y Y Y brig...@vicom.com (Bill Carson)
    Y Y Y Y A bro...@BBN.COM
    Y Y Y Y Y Charles J. Guest <chg...@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov>
    Y Y Y Y A Charley Kline <c-k...@uiuc.edu>
    N N N N N Charlie Panek <char...@lsid.hp.com>
    Y Y Y Y Y Charlie Root <ro...@utcrt2.utc.chalmers.se>
    Y Y Y Y Y chk@alias (C. Harald Koch)
    Y Y N Y N chu...@amc.com (Chuck Baldwin)
    Y Y Y Y Y chu...@tc.fluke.COM (Chuck Bowden)
    Y Y Y Y Y connolly%li...@cs.umass.edu (Christopher Connolly)
    Y Y Y Y Y "CPT Douglas E. Nielsen" <ASQK-...@taegu-emh1.army.mil>
    Y Y Y Y Y cs0...@unccvax.uncc.edu (John Covington WN4BBJ)
    Y Y N N Y ct...@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU (Cliff Tuel)
    Y Y Y Y Y cu...@cynic.wimsey.bc.ca (Curt Sampson)
    Y Y Y Y Y da...@amc.com (Dave Schmidt)
    Y Y Y Y Y David Wright <D.W.W...@stl.stc.co.uk>
    N N N N Y d...@caveat.berkeley.edu (Dave Cottingham)
    Y Y Y Y Y d...@meaddata.com (David Myers)
    Y Y Y Y Y Denny Lim <dl...@BBN.COM>
    Y Y Y Y Y dil...@pa.dec.com (John Dillon)
    Y Y Y Y N Don_E...@cup.portal.com
    N N N N Y Doug Faunt N6TQS 415-688-8269 <fa...@cisco.com>
    N Y Y Y Y Doug....@Central.Sun.COM (Douglas Tabor [Sun Colorado Commercial SE])
    Y Y Y Y Y d...@css.itd.umich.edu
    Y Y Y Y Y Duncan Elliott <du...@eecg.toronto.edu>
    Y Y Y Y Y dve...@dbase.A-T.COM (Dan Veditz)
    Y Y Y Y Y ea...@rcf.rsmas.miami.edu
    N N N N Y e...@gvlv3.GVL.Unisys.COM (Ed Naratil)
    Y Y Y Y Y Ed Hall <edh...@rand.org>
    N N N N Y ed...@jafus.mi.org (Eddy J. Gurney)
    Y Y Y Y Y electro!ca...@watcgl.waterloo.edu (Carlo Sgro)
    Y Y Y Y Y eman...@to.sem.it (Emanuele Girlando)
    Y Y Y Y Y emma...@dhw68k.cts.COM (Mark Hartman)
    Y Y Y Y Y eplunix!i...@EDDIE.MIT.EDU (Ishmael J. Stefanov-Wagner)
    Y Y Y Y N Eric Peterson <er...@prodnet.la.locus.com>
    N N N N Y FINBERG%ebvxcl.d...@RELAY.CS.NET
    Y Y Y Y Y f...@rci.dk (Flemming Kraglund)
    Y Y Y Y Y foxw...@bnlls1.nsls.bnl.gov (Bob Foxworth)
    N N N N N Fred....@West.Sun.COM (Fred Lloyd SUN Phoenix SE 602-275-4242)
    Y Y Y Y A fr...@caf.MIT.EDU (Frederick Herrmann)
    Y Y Y Y N Gary Bridges <bri...@isuee1.ee.iastate.edu>
    Y Y Y Y N "Gary D. Archer" <arc...@stlvm2.iinus1.ibm.com>
    Y Y Y Y Y Gary.R...@f131.n321.z1.fidonet.org (Gary Reardon)
    Y Y Y Y Y ga...@sci34hub.sci.com (Gary Heston)
    N N N N N ga...@ssd.Kodak.Com (Gary M. Diana (645))
    Y Y Y Y Y gba...@x102c.ess.harris.com (Gary Bastin 60293)
    Y Y Y Y Y gemed!uunet!crdgw1.ge.com!med.ge.com!sol!wos...@crdgw1.ge.com
    Y Y Y Y Y georgep%sail.lab...@RELAY.CS.NET
    Y Y Y Y Y Gerben 'P' Vos <gp...@cs.vu.nl>

    [continued in next message]

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