• microsoft.* hierarchy

    From =?UTF-8?Q?Julien_=c3=89LIE?=@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 15 12:31:05 2021
    Hi all,

    As we speak of historic hierarchies (net.*), the microsoft.* one has
    also been stalled since 2009 when the msnews.microsoft.com server was
    shut down.
    Nonetheless, the newsgroups are still in the wide, and some of them are
    active.
    So maybe microsoft.* should remain in control.ctl but the comment adapted?


    # Control articles for that hierarchy are not issued by Microsoft itself
    # but by a Usenet active participant in order to improve the quality of
    # the propagation of Microsoft newsgroups. Their official URL is:
    # http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/list/en-us/default.aspx

    I suggest to make it unmanaged and remove PGP key & administrative
    stuff. Unless someone has a better advice about that?

    Web forums (https://answers.microsoft.com/) are now used by Microsoft.

    I doubt the PGP key will ever serve again. Its purpose was to propagate changes made to the official newsgroups from msnews.microsoft.com.

    I still have the private key, though, and will consider deleting it.

    --
    Julien ÉLIE

    « Open the black window and type text, to fix the network. »

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Russ Allbery@21:1/5 to iulius@nom-de-mon-site.com.invalid on Sun Jun 27 20:05:30 2021
    Julien ÉLIE <iulius@nom-de-mon-site.com.invalid> writes:

    As we speak of historic hierarchies (net.*), the microsoft.* one has
    also been stalled since 2009 when the msnews.microsoft.com server was
    shut down. Nonetheless, the newsgroups are still in the wide, and some
    of them are active. So maybe microsoft.* should remain in control.ctl
    but the comment adapted?

    # Control articles for that hierarchy are not issued by Microsoft itself
    # but by a Usenet active participant in order to improve the quality of
    # the propagation of Microsoft newsgroups. Their official URL is:
    # http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/list/en-us/default.aspx

    I suggest to make it unmanaged and remove PGP key & administrative
    stuff. Unless someone has a better advice about that?

    Well, I think it's partly up to you whether you want to continue to
    maintain the hierarchy. If you don't, then making it unmanaged makes
    sense, and I can understand why you may not want to take on management of
    the hierarchy rather than just relaying Microsoft's group list.

    That said, it's still in active use, so having a source of a canonical
    group list is useful. So would pruning out the groups that no one is
    using if anyone felt like doing that. Obviously, you don't have to take
    that on and anyone who does that doesn't even need to use the same private
    key (we can always update configurations later), but it might be an easier transition to keep using the same one.

    --
    Russ Allbery (eagle@eyrie.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

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  • From Russ Allbery@21:1/5 to iulius@nom-de-mon-site.com.invalid on Mon Jun 28 13:07:59 2021
    Julien ÉLIE <iulius@nom-de-mon-site.com.invalid> writes:

    P.-S.: I wonder whether gnu.* couldn't similarly be checked and
    updated. As well as perl.* or linux.* list of mailing-list gateways.

    I think Marco still actively maintains linux.*, although I may be wrong.

    perl.* and gnu.* used to be mailing list gateways (the latter used
    Mailman), but I'm not sure if anyone kept that running. gnu.* used to use
    my news server but stopped a long time ago. IIRC, mailing list senders
    were complaining about getting spam and thought it was due to Usenet.

    I created a key for gnu.* eons ago and was going to help maintain it, but
    then never finished the project and it's long-since defunct.

    --
    Russ Allbery (eagle@eyrie.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Julien_=c3=89LIE?=@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jun 28 21:25:16 2021
    Hi Russ,

    As we speak of historic hierarchies (net.*), the microsoft.* one has
    also been stalled since 2009 when the msnews.microsoft.com server was
    shut down. Nonetheless, the newsgroups are still in the wide, and some
    of them are active. So maybe microsoft.* should remain in control.ctl
    but the comment adapted?

    # Control articles for that hierarchy are not issued by Microsoft itself
    # but by a Usenet active participant in order to improve the quality of
    # the propagation of Microsoft newsgroups. Their official URL is:
    # http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/list/en-us/default.aspx

    I suggest to make it unmanaged and remove PGP key & administrative
    stuff. Unless someone has a better advice about that?

    Well, I think it's partly up to you whether you want to continue to
    maintain the hierarchy. If you don't, then making it unmanaged makes
    sense, and I can understand why you may not want to take on management of
    the hierarchy rather than just relaying Microsoft's group list.

    I have not sent any control message since 2009 for the microsoft.*
    hierarchy. Major products like latest Windows 10, upcoming Windows 11,
    Office 365, Teams, Edge, etc. do not have their dedicated newsgroup.

    Well, there are (at least) two choices:
    - making the hierarchy unmanaged, without syncable server and PGP stuff,
    but of course still listing it in control.ctl and ftp.isc.org newsgroups
    file;
    - trying to give it a new impulse and sending control messages to create newsgroups from the products seen in the new Microsoft Community web
    forums <https://answers.microsoft.com/>

    For the second choice, it would need a bit of initial work to elaborate
    the list of such groups, and decide the languages for which to create
    them besides English.
    And of course a bit of analysis too of the current newsgroups (which one
    are still active, in which language). Some of them are no longer
    relevant and can be removed.

    Maybe I could send a message in a few active newsgroups to probe what
    still existing users want. The may already have an idea of useful
    newsgroups to create.

    Surely a better strategy than giving up :-)
    At least not before having tried something.



    That said, it's still in active use, so having a source of a canonical
    group list is useful. So would pruning out the groups that no one is
    using if anyone felt like doing that. Obviously, you don't have to take
    that on and anyone who does that doesn't even need to use the same private key (we can always update configurations later), but it might be an easier transition to keep using the same one.

    Sounds good. Using the same key seems better, though its initial goal
    changes from just syncing the Microsoft news server list.


    P.-S.: I wonder whether gnu.* couldn't similarly be checked and
    updated. As well as perl.* or linux.* list of mailing-list gateways.

    --
    Julien ÉLIE

    « I had some words with my wife, and she had some paragraphs with me. »
    (Sigmund Freud)

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Julien_=c3=89LIE?=@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jun 30 11:51:19 2021
    Hi all,

    - trying to give it a new impulse and sending control messages to create newsgroups from the products seen in the new Microsoft Community web
    forums <https://answers.microsoft.com/>

    I'm wondering whether there couldn't be legal issues with that
    (maintaining a list of microsoft.public.* newsgroup names matching
    Microsoft products, now that the officiel msnews.microsoft.com server is
    no longer here).

    Likewise, if someone pops up and maintain an apple.* hierarchy with
    Apple product names, I am unsure it will receive a great welcome when
    they hear of it. Though I may be wrong about that.

    --
    Julien ÉLIE

    « Aliud est celare, aliud tacere. »

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From bje@ripco.com@21:1/5 to iulius@nom-de-mon-site.com.invalid on Wed Jun 30 11:14:46 2021
    Julien ?LIE <iulius@nom-de-mon-site.com.invalid> wrote:

    I'm wondering whether there couldn't be legal issues with that
    (maintaining a list of microsoft.public.* newsgroup names matching
    Microsoft products, now that the officiel msnews.microsoft.com server is
    no longer here).


    For what it's worth, not exactly the same thing but close, years ago one of
    our clients registered the domain name microsoftsucks.com or
    microsoftsux.com and within 2 days of creation we received legal threats.

    They were not from MS directly but some lawyer firm that claimed to handle trademark enforcement on behalf of them.

    What was odd was, they couldn't do anything about us owning the domain but claimed any services (email, web site) that were created would bring down
    the rath of Redmond upon us. So we could have the domain name, just couldn't use it for anything.

    So it sat here for years, more than a decade with an empty zone record.

    So they do seem touchy about it.

    -bruce
    bje@ripco.com

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  • From Rink@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jun 30 14:12:11 2021
    Op 15-6-2021 om 12:31 schreef Julien ÉLIE:
    Hi all,

    As we speak of historic hierarchies (net.*), the microsoft.* one has
    also been stalled since 2009 when the msnews.microsoft.com server was
    shut down.
    Nonetheless, the newsgroups are still in the wide, and some of them are active.
    So maybe microsoft.* should remain in control.ctl but the comment adapted?


    # Control articles for that hierarchy are not issued by Microsoft itself
    # but by a Usenet active participant in order to improve the quality of
    # the propagation of Microsoft newsgroups.  Their official URL is:
    # http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/list/en-us/default.aspx

    I suggest to make it unmanaged and remove PGP key & administrative
    stuff.  Unless someone has a better advice about that?

    Web forums (https://answers.microsoft.com/) are now used by Microsoft.

    I doubt the PGP key will ever serve again.  Its purpose was to propagate changes made to the official newsgroups from msnews.microsoft.com.

    I still have the private key, though, and will consider deleting it.





    I do not understand what you suggest
    (because I do not know enough about control.ctl, PGP, keys, unmanaged,
    etc.),
    but I only want to say that the newsgroup
    microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
    still is *THE* most busiest English language newsgroup about Windows-XP.

    In 2021 per month: 100, 104, 86, 61, 315 messages.
    In june 2021 already 298 messages.
    Thousands of newsgroups will be jealous about those figures :-)


    I remember that I had installed the microsoft newsserver.
    When they switched off, we simply followed all
    microsoft.* newsgroups on other newsservers.
    I thought it was in 2013, but Wikipedia says june 2010.

    If I understand correctly, you want to introduce new microsoft.* newsgroups?

    Main English language newsgroups for other Windows OS are:
    alt.windows7.general
    alt.comp.os.windows-8
    alt.comp.os.windows-10

    For me (and a lot of other people) webforums are no alternative to usenet.

    Rink

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Julien_=c3=89LIE?=@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jun 30 14:05:06 2021
    Hi Bruce,

    Julien ?LIE

    Oh, another encoding issue :-)


    I'm wondering whether there couldn't be legal issues with that
    (maintaining a list of microsoft.public.* newsgroup names matching
    Microsoft products, now that the officiel msnews.microsoft.com server is
    no longer here).

    For what it's worth, not exactly the same thing but close, years ago one of our clients registered the domain name microsoftsucks.com or
    microsoftsux.com and within 2 days of creation we received legal threats.

    Thanks for your message.
    It shows they are monitoring the use of their mark.


    So they do seem touchy about it.

    The difference here is that these domain names are defaming. I don't
    know how sensitive they would be for a public Usenet apple.* hierarchy
    or for new microsoft.* newsgroups with Office365, Teams, Windows 11 names.
    And moreover if they read offensive discussions in these (unmoderated) newsgroups.
    One could argue there already are public web sites with similar forums;
    yet, moderation and removal of messages are possible in such centralized forums...

    --
    Julien ÉLIE

    « Je ne voudrais tout de même pas que Cléopâtre m'ait dans le nez ! »
    (César)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Russ Allbery@21:1/5 to iulius@nom-de-mon-site.com.invalid on Wed Jun 30 09:20:04 2021
    Julien ÉLIE <iulius@nom-de-mon-site.com.invalid> writes:

    I'm wondering whether there couldn't be legal issues with that
    (maintaining a list of microsoft.public.* newsgroup names matching
    Microsoft products, now that the officiel msnews.microsoft.com server is
    no longer here).

    I am quite dubious there's a *winning* legal issue, given that this is an example of a trademark being used in precisely the way that it was
    intended to be used. The groups are for discussing the Microsoft products identified with the trademarks used in the group names, so there is no
    market confusion.

    Of course, as is always the case with legal anything, being on the correct
    side mostly doesn't matter because the process of being sued is
    sufficiently awful that no one would want to stick around and win the
    resulting case.

    I don't think Microsoft would care enough to complain, particularly given
    that they started the newsgroups themselves and they've been around for
    years (so there's also a principle of estoppel involved). I'm sure there
    are unofficial Microsoft product forums all over the place (Reddit, for instance) that use trademarks routinely and no one cares. But without an official contact at Microsoft, there's always some level of uncertainty.

    --
    Russ Allbery (eagle@eyrie.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Julien_=c3=89LIE?=@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jun 30 18:19:26 2021
    Hi Rink,

    but I only want to say that the newsgroup
        microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
    still is *THE* most busiest English language newsgroup about Windows-XP.

    In 2021 per month: 100, 104, 86, 61, 315 messages.
    In june 2021 already 298 messages.
    Thousands of newsgroups will be jealous about those figures  :-)

    Yup, the most active newsgroups over the last year (July 2020-June 2021)
    are:

    microsoft.public.windowsxp.general 2083
    microsoft.public.it.office.excel 1579
    microsoft.public.fr.excel 1363
    microsoft.public.de.money 609
    microsoft.public.vb.general.discussion 487
    microsoft.public.de.excel 338
    microsoft.public.fr.outlook 335
    microsoft.public.excel.programming 323
    microsoft.public.excel.misc 254
    microsoft.public.outlook.general 253
    microsoft.public.fr.windows.server 204
    microsoft.public.word.docmanagement 122
    microsoft.public.fr.office 107
    microsoft.public.excel.worksheet.functions 107
    microsoft.public.excel 104
    microsoft.public.es.excel 93
    microsoft.public.fr.windowsxp 80
    microsoft.public.adsi.general 76
    microsoft.public.nntp.test 63
    microsoft.public.nl.office.excel 58
    microsoft.public.scripting.vbscript 55
    microsoft.public.es.word 54
    microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support 51 microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.aspnet.caching 45
    microsoft.public.powerpoint 43
    microsoft.public.it.office.access 43
    microsoft.public.outlook 42
    microsoft.public.test.here 38
    microsoft.public.fr.access 36
    microsoft.public.word.pagelayout 35
    microsoft.public.word.newusers 30
    microsoft.public.fr.word 30
    microsoft.public.access 28
    microsoft.public.mac.office.word 26
    microsoft.public.greatplains 26
    microsoft.public.es.access 26
    microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.csharp 26 microsoft.public.windows.server.general 22
    microsoft.public.excel.setup 21
    microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion 20

    And there are also spams in most of them...
    So basically, there are not many real active newsgroups left in the
    hierarchy!


    Specifically in microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, people seem to
    frequently complain about posts for more recent Windows versions than
    XP. It is true that they are clearly missing in the microsoft.* hierarchy.



    I remember that I had installed the microsoft newsserver.
    When they switched off, we simply followed all
    microsoft.* newsgroups on other newsservers.
    I thought it was in 2013, but Wikipedia says june 2010.

    It was in 2010:
    http://www.rxs-enterprises.org/fp/newsgroup-closure.aspx

    "All public newsgroups will eventually be closed between June 1, 2010
    and October 1, 2010. Microsoft will be closing newsgroups in a phased
    approach, starting with the least active newsgroups and moving
    eventually to more active ones throughout the course of the next six
    months."



    If I understand correctly, you want to introduce new microsoft.*
    newsgroups?

    It is currently at the state of a thought.



    Main English language newsgroups for other Windows OS are:
        alt.windows7.general
        alt.comp.os.windows-8
        alt.comp.os.windows-10

    For me (and a lot of other people) webforums are no alternative to usenet.

    I totally understand.

    There aren't many active newsgroups left in the microsoft.* hierarchy.
    The question of using alt.* is good (a Windows 11 newsgroup can be
    "created" there if needed, as well as other newsgroups).
    If microsoft.public.windows-8, microsoft.public.windows-10 and microsoft.public.windows-11 existed, would they be used? If people are
    already accustomed to alt.comp.os.windows-8 and like, I am unsure adding another newsgroup would be good...

    --
    Julien ÉLIE

    « Je ne voudrais tout de même pas que Cléopâtre m'ait dans le nez ! »
    (César)

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Julien_=c3=89LIE?=@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jul 5 14:38:32 2021
    Responding to myself,

    Maybe I could send a message in a few active newsgroups to probe what
    still existing users want.  They may already have an idea of useful newsgroups to create.

    In the thread "Survey about microsoft.* newsgroups" in microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
    (<news:sbi7j3$r53$1@news.trigofacile.com>), 4 persons answered.

    Basically, they do not see any point in creating new newsgroups in
    microsoft.* because they already have newsgroups in alt.* for new
    Microsoft products.
    A few legacy newsgroups like the one for Windows XP are still used in
    the microsoft.* hierarchy. People don't mind reading newsgroups from
    different hierarchies (alt.*, microsoft.*, comp.*, local ones...) in
    their news reader.

    Note to Jason: they spoke about the difficulty to add groups to comp.*
    (a hierarchy which would otherwise have been likely to be used to
    discuss current Microsoft products). There are still Windows 95
    newsgroups in comp.*; hope the new Big Eight board will give more
    freshness to the hierarchy.

    Currently, they prefer to go on adding groups in alt.* that suit their
    needs.


    And the other point for microsoft.* is the removal of dead groups (where
    no one would respond to a question posted to them, even though they seem empty). There is no consensus. It is either "no, don't touch the
    hierarchy" or "why not, if dead, a clean up would be good".


    To put into a nutshell, I am under the impression people got used to
    using other hierarchies than microsoft.* and it is not obvious that
    there is a wish to resurrect it...

    --
    Julien ÉLIE

    « The most effective way to remember your wife's birthday is to forget
    it once… » (Nash)

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  • From Adam H. Kerman@21:1/5 to Julien on Mon Jul 5 15:07:15 2021
    Julien <iulius@nom-de-mon-site.com.invalid> wrote:

    Responding to myself,

    Maybe I could send a message in a few active newsgroups to probe what
    still existing users want. They may already have an idea of useful >>newsgroups to create.

    In the thread "Survey about microsoft.* newsgroups" in >microsoft.public.windowsxp.general >(<news:sbi7j3$r53$1@news.trigofacile.com>), 4 persons answered.

    Basically, they do not see any point in creating new newsgroups in >microsoft.* because they already have newsgroups in alt.* for new
    Microsoft products.
    A few legacy newsgroups like the one for Windows XP are still used in
    the microsoft.* hierarchy. People don't mind reading newsgroups from >different hierarchies (alt.*, microsoft.*, comp.*, local ones...) in
    their news reader.

    The issue would have been the same for both comp.* and alt.*. Even if
    those of us outside the discussion taking place observed that new groups
    in comp.* and alt.* were specifically redundant of counterpart groups
    already in microsoft.public.*, the Microsoft News administrator had no
    ability to thwart a proposal to create a group in an international
    hierarchy.

    Julien, you did too good a job convincing people that microsoft.public.*
    would be a nonviable hierarchy once the Microsoft News server was taken
    off line, so no one made any serious attempts to start groups for
    subsequent Microsoft products there. You took that option off the table.

    Note to Jason: they spoke about the difficulty to add groups to comp.*
    (a hierarchy which would otherwise have been likely to be used to
    discuss current Microsoft products). There are still Windows 95
    newsgroups in comp.*; hope the new Big Eight board will give more
    freshness to the hierarchy.

    Currently, they prefer to go on adding groups in alt.* that suit their
    needs.

    fwiw, the group names in alt.comp.* are reasonably good. A redundant
    group in comp.* for Windows 11 would be a bad thing at this point.

    And the other point for microsoft.* is the removal of dead groups (where
    no one would respond to a question posted to them, even though they seem >empty). There is no consensus. It is either "no, don't touch the
    hierarchy" or "why not, if dead, a clean up would be good".

    Rmgroups are not now and never have been a known method of starting
    viable discussion in groups not being removed.

    To put into a nutshell, I am under the impression people got used to
    using other hierarchies than microsoft.* and it is not obvious that
    there is a wish to resurrect it...

    It's a moot issue, Julien. You made it so.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Julien_=c3=89LIE?=@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jul 6 09:37:07 2021
    Hi Adam,

    Julien, you did too good a job convincing people that microsoft.public.* would be a nonviable hierarchy once the Microsoft News server was taken
    off line, so no one made any serious attempts to start groups for
    subsequent Microsoft products there. You took that option off the table.

    We're speaking of discussions that took place more than a decade ago.
    I am not under the impression I "took that option off the table". I
    just sent a final checkgroups for the remaining ~500 groups still
    active, that is to say the last ones that remained in
    msnews.microsoft.com several months. There were more than ~1700 groups,
    most of them without traffic, and I still think it was a good move from Microsoft to clean and rationalize that huge list before stopping their
    news server.
    I then left the list of groups as-is, clearly stating that the PGP key
    was initially created and trusted for the "replication" of the list of newsgroups present in the Microsoft's news server.
    If somebody wanted to go on "maintaining" the hierarchy and give it
    another life, he could have taken that path (<news:hs9i8m$ia$1@news.trigofacile.com> amongst other articles I sent).

    As guessed in 2010, it was not bound to happen. You even said "the
    chances of someone reviving a brand-specific customer support hierarchy
    after abandoned by the manufacturer are only slightly better than
    Microsoft writing a decent newsreader"
    (<news:hs9sf6$emq$2@news.albasani.net>).

    So, here, I just wish to recall I never said microsoft.public.* would be
    a nonviable hierarchy, nor I took that option off the table...

    --
    Julien ÉLIE

    « Sometimes in love you must accept the fact that what makes the person
    you cared about happy might on the other hand leave you so lonely. »

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Adam H. Kerman@21:1/5 to Julien on Tue Jul 6 14:02:48 2021
    Julien <iulius@nom-de-mon-site.com.invalid> wrote:

    Hi Adam,

    Julien, you did too good a job convincing people that microsoft.public.* >>would be a nonviable hierarchy once the Microsoft News server was taken
    off line, so no one made any serious attempts to start groups for >>subsequent Microsoft products there. You took that option off the table.

    We're speaking of discussions that took place more than a decade ago.
    I am not under the impression I "took that option off the table". I
    just sent a final checkgroups for the remaining ~500 groups still
    active, that is to say the last ones that remained in
    msnews.microsoft.com several months.

    I thought I recalled you had sent rmgroups for the remaining groups.
    My error. I apologize.

    . . .

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Julien_=c3=89LIE?=@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jul 6 16:57:55 2021
    Hi Adam,

    Julien, you did too good a job convincing people that microsoft.public.* >>> would be a nonviable hierarchy once the Microsoft News server was taken
    off line, so no one made any serious attempts to start groups for
    subsequent Microsoft products there. You took that option off the table.

    We're speaking of discussions that took place more than a decade ago.
    I am not under the impression I "took that option off the table". I
    just sent a final checkgroups for the remaining ~500 groups still
    active, that is to say the last ones that remained in
    msnews.microsoft.com several months.

    I thought I recalled you had sent rmgroups for the remaining groups.
    My error. I apologize.

    No problem!
    It is true that we discussed several options at that time, amongst which
    were sending rmgroups for the remaining groups. That path was not taken (thanks to the share of your point of view, as well as others, at that
    time, pros and cons).

    --
    Julien ÉLIE

    « Le cercle n'est qu'une ligne droite revenue à son point de départ. »
    (San-Antonio)

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Julien_=c3=89LIE?=@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jul 14 10:09:38 2021
    Hi Russ,

    P.-S.: I wonder whether gnu.* couldn't similarly be checked and
    updated. As well as perl.* or linux.* list of mailing-list gateways.

    I think Marco still actively maintains linux.*, although I may be wrong.

    Checkgroups for linux.* are sent from time to time. Last one a few
    months ago, in January 2021.
    However, no changes since 2004; that's why I wonder whether the list was up-to-date (no new mailing-list to gateway, or new groups or defunct
    ones to remove?)


    I created a key for gnu.* eons ago and was going to help maintain it, but then never finished the project and it's long-since defunct.

    Then shouldn't gnu.* marked as unmanaged or defunct?

    --
    Julien ÉLIE

    « Vti, non abuti. »

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Julien_=c3=89LIE?=@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jul 14 10:28:09 2021
    Hi Adam,

    I just sent a final checkgroups for the remaining ~500 groups still
    active, that is to say the last ones that remained in
    msnews.microsoft.com several months.

    I thought I recalled you had sent rmgroups for the remaining groups.

    The question now is whether a bit more of house-keeping should be done,
    to resume the list to ~100 groups or so (at least on news servers still honouring these control messages). It may make the hierarchy more
    readable and usable for possible newcomers.

    Too bad there are not many general newsgroups (components usually
    contain the version: "windows98", "windowsxp", etc. and not "windows.98"
    or "windows.xp") so a general catch-all newsgroup cannot be preserved.
    And I am unsure creating such general groups would be a good thing
    anyway at that time.

    --
    Julien ÉLIE

    « Vti, non abuti. »

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