On 2021-03-28 6:23 p.m., Bret Busby wrote:
The new list web page address isEveryone, please note that the above link is not created by Mozilla. It
https://groups.io/g/firefox-support
is not maintained by Mozilla, and not affiliated with Mozilla.
On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 21:26:24 -0400, Chris Ilias <nmo9@ilias.ca> wrote:
On 2021-03-28 6:23 p.m., Bret Busby wrote:
The new list web page address isEveryone, please note that the above link is not created by Mozilla. It
https://groups.io/g/firefox-support
is not maintained by Mozilla, and not affiliated with Mozilla.
Hi Chris,
In your original message on the subject you said:
*WHY THIS IS HAPPENING*
Mozilla has been migrating off of mailing lists and newsgroups for
many years now. Many of the mailing lists have already closed down and
moved to https://discourse.mozilla.org/
Even though a support web forum already exists, the support
newsgroups/lists have remained open for the lifetime of the server.
That is the physically what's happening but what is the reasoning
behind the move?
On 2021-03-29 5:32 a.m., pete@never.here wrote:
On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 21:26:24 -0400, Chris Ilias <nmo9@ilias.ca> wrote:
On 2021-03-28 6:23 p.m., Bret Busby wrote:
The new list web page address isEveryone, please note that the above link is not created by Mozilla. It
https://groups.io/g/firefox-support
is not maintained by Mozilla, and not affiliated with Mozilla.
Hi Chris,
In your original message on the subject you said:
*WHY THIS IS HAPPENING*
Mozilla has been migrating off of mailing lists and newsgroups for
many years now. Many of the mailing lists have already closed down and
moved to https://discourse.mozilla.org/
Even though a support web forum already exists, the support
newsgroups/lists have remained open for the lifetime of the server.
That is the physically what's happening but what is the reasoning
behind the move?
There are so many reasons for it, I don't have time to provide them all
right now. :) For now, I'll just point to https://wiki.mozilla.org/Discussion_Forums/Problem_Statement
On 30/3/21 1:30 am, Chris Ilias wrote:
There are so many reasons for it, I don't have time to provide them
all right now. :) For now, I'll just point to
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Discussion_Forums/Problem_Statement
Are you aware of a proposal by Mozilla, to push (as in shovel, without
being given a choice) subscribers to Mozilla hosted mailing lists, into google groupses?
Apparently, rather than, as I have done with the mailing list that I set
up, inviting subscribers to this list, to join my new list, apparently, Mozilla proposes to automatically make all subscribers to its lists,
members of google groupses, regardless of whether the victims want that.
I am told of a proposal from Mozilla, to put subscribers to its mailing lists, automatically, into google groupses, so that it transfers its
hosted mailing lists to google groups, without the list subscribers
having any choice.
On 2021-03-29 4:00 p.m., Bret Busby wrote:
On 30/3/21 1:30 am, Chris Ilias wrote:
There are so many reasons for it, I don't have time to provide them
all right now. :) For now, I'll just point to
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Discussion_Forums/Problem_Statement
Are you aware of a proposal by Mozilla, to push (as in shovel, without
being given a choice) subscribers to Mozilla hosted mailing lists,
into google groupses?
Apparently, rather than, as I have done with the mailing list that I
set up, inviting subscribers to this list, to join my new list,
apparently, Mozilla proposes to automatically make all subscribers to
its lists, members of google groupses, regardless of whether the
victims want that.
Hi Bret,
If you want me to answer that, you're going to have to explain what on
earth you're referring to. :D
On 30/3/21 5:12 am, BillH wrote:
On 3/29/2021 1:23 PM, Bret Busby wrote:
I am told of a proposal from Mozilla, to put subscribers to its mailing
lists, automatically, into google groupses, so that it transfers its
hosted mailing lists to google groups, without the list subscribers
having any choice.
How were you told this? Where is this documented? Can we somehow see
where this proposal was mentioned?
Bill
It is a proposal that I was advised had been made by Mozilla.
I believe it would not be appropriate for me to reveal my source.
I was asking the list administrator of this list, whether he or she (I
can not determine the gender by the name) had heard anything about the proposal.
On 3/29/2021 1:23 PM, Bret Busby wrote:
I am told of a proposal from Mozilla, to put subscribers to its mailing
lists, automatically, into google groupses, so that it transfers its
hosted mailing lists to google groups, without the list subscribers
having any choice.
How were you told this? Where is this documented? Can we somehow see where this proposal was mentioned?
Bill
On 3/29/2021 2:36 PM, Bret Busby wrote:
On 30/3/21 5:12 am, BillH wrote:
On 3/29/2021 1:23 PM, Bret Busby wrote:
I am told of a proposal from Mozilla, to put subscribers to its mailing >>>> lists, automatically, into google groupses, so that it transfers its
hosted mailing lists to google groups, without the list subscribers
having any choice.
How were you told this? Where is this documented? Can we somehow see >>> where this proposal was mentioned?
Bill
It is a proposal that I was advised had been made by Mozilla.
I believe it would not be appropriate for me to reveal my source.
I was asking the list administrator of this list, whether he or she (I
can not determine the gender by the name) had heard anything about the
proposal.
Hmmm... a secret proposal... not sure what to think of that.
Bill
A further aspect to this, that I have just discovered...
I also use (this message is posted from) Thunderbird.
I had not previously been aware of a mailing list for support for Thunderbird.
So, I did a google search for
thunderbird support mailing list
and found
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-thunderbird
Now, that list has the email address
support-thunderbird@lists.mozilla.org
But, I wanted to view the list archive, to find what had been said on
that list, about the list being shut down, and, possibly, if applicable,
a replacement mailing list.
The interesting thing, is that, in the sentence
"To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the support-thunderbird Archives. "
with the words "support-thunderbird Archives" forming a hypertext link,
the URL for that label, is http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.thunderbird
So, I do not know the status of that list, or, thence, whether the
compulsory moving to google groups, of lists hosted by Mozilla, has commenced.
Perhaps, Chris Ilias (the list administrator of this Firefox support
list) can clarify this.
On 2021-03-29 6:24 p.m., Bret Busby wrote:
A further aspect to this, that I have just discovered...
I also use (this message is posted from) Thunderbird.
I had not previously been aware of a mailing list for support for
Thunderbird.
So, I did a google search for
thunderbird support mailing list
and found
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-thunderbird
Now, that list has the email address
support-thunderbird@lists.mozilla.org
But, I wanted to view the list archive, to find what had been said on
that list, about the list being shut down, and, possibly, if
applicable, a replacement mailing list.
The interesting thing, is that, in the sentence
"To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the
support-thunderbird Archives. "
with the words "support-thunderbird Archives" forming a hypertext
link, the URL for that label, is
http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.thunderbird
So, I do not know the status of that list, or, thence, whether the
compulsory moving to google groups, of lists hosted by Mozilla, has
commenced.
Perhaps, Chris Ilias (the list administrator of this Firefox support
list) can clarify this.
Chris Ilias (the list administrator of the Thunderbird support list) can clarify this. :)
That forum (as well as this) is an amalgamation of a mailing list,
newsgroup, and google group. Every message sent to the mailing list
(hosted by Mozilla) is fed to the newsgroup (hosted by Giganews). Every message posted to the newsgroup is sent to the mailing list, and fed
(along with messages from the mailing list) to the Google Group (hosted
by Google). Every message posted to the Google Group is fed to the
newsgroup, which then sends it to the mailing list. Using this method,
people can subscribe and post messages via whichever of the three access-points they prefer, and still get the benefit of community
members from other access points. Basically, instead of being three
separate forums, it appears as one.
Google Groups was originally an archive of Usenet newsgroups. They then allowed people to post to those newsgroups through Google Groups.
Eventually, they created their own groups that are not fed to Usenet,
also called Google Groups.
That's why you can find messages from 1982 talking about the upcoming
sequel to the Empire Strikes Back - https://groups.google.com/g/net.movies/c/8Rsra_MR3yY/m/9TIQH0a19xwJ
These mailing lists were set up to use Google Groups as the archive.
(see https://www-archive.mozilla.org/community/giganews-migration.html)
On Tue, 30 Mar 2021, at 00:31, Bret Busby wrote:
In the circumstances, with what you have previously posted, is the
Thunderbird support mailing list, as hosted by Mozilla, at
support-thunderbird@lists.mozilla.org
to also be shut down as of 03 April?
Yes. There's a similar set of discussions there.
If so, has a replacement mailing list been created?
There was already a pair of them on groups.io, at
https://groups.io/g/thunderbird
(which maybe doesn't allow attachments to posts)
and
https://groups.io/g/thunderbirdemail (which does allow them)
My bloviated meandering follows what Chris Ilias graced us with on
3/29/2021 4:04 PM:
Chris Ilias (the list administrator of the Thunderbird support list)
can clarify this. :)
That forum (as well as this) is an amalgamation of a mailing list,
newsgroup, and google group. Every message sent to the mailing list
(hosted by Mozilla) is fed to the newsgroup (hosted by Giganews).
Every message posted to the newsgroup is sent to the mailing list, and
fed (along with messages from the mailing list) to the Google Group
(hosted by Google). Every message posted to the Google Group is fed to
the newsgroup, which then sends it to the mailing list. Using this
method, people can subscribe and post messages via whichever of the
three access-points they prefer, and still get the benefit of
community members from other access points. Basically, instead of
being three separate forums, it appears as one.
Google Groups was originally an archive of Usenet newsgroups. They
then allowed people to post to those newsgroups through Google Groups.
Eventually, they created their own groups that are not fed to Usenet,
also called Google Groups.
That's why you can find messages from 1982 talking about the upcoming
sequel to the Empire Strikes Back -
https://groups.google.com/g/net.movies/c/8Rsra_MR3yY/m/9TIQH0a19xwJ
These mailing lists were set up to use Google Groups as the archive.
(see https://www-archive.mozilla.org/community/giganews-migration.html)
Chris, very interesting and a bit convoluted. I know this may not be in
your wheelhouse to answer but do you know if these groups will remain
active in Google Groups?
On 2021-03-29 6:24 p.m., Bret Busby wrote:
A further aspect to this, that I have just discovered...
I also use (this message is posted from) Thunderbird.
I had not previously been aware of a mailing list for support for
Thunderbird.
So, I did a google search for
thunderbird support mailing list
and found
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-thunderbird
Now, that list has the email address
support-thunderbird@lists.mozilla.org
But, I wanted to view the list archive, to find what had been said on
that list, about the list being shut down, and, possibly, if
applicable, a replacement mailing list.
The interesting thing, is that, in the sentence
"To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the
support-thunderbird Archives. "
with the words "support-thunderbird Archives" forming a hypertext
link, the URL for that label, is
http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.thunderbird
So, I do not know the status of that list, or, thence, whether the
compulsory moving to google groups, of lists hosted by Mozilla, has
commenced.
Perhaps, Chris Ilias (the list administrator of this Firefox support
list) can clarify this.
Chris Ilias (the list administrator of the Thunderbird support list) can clarify this. :)
That forum (as well as this) is an amalgamation of a mailing list,
newsgroup, and google group. Every message sent to the mailing list
(hosted by Mozilla) is fed to the newsgroup (hosted by Giganews). Every message posted to the newsgroup is sent to the mailing list, and fed
(along with messages from the mailing list) to the Google Group (hosted
by Google). Every message posted to the Google Group is fed to the
newsgroup, which then sends it to the mailing list. Using this method,
people can subscribe and post messages via whichever of the three access-points they prefer, and still get the benefit of community
members from other access points. Basically, instead of being three
separate forums, it appears as one.
Google Groups was originally an archive of Usenet newsgroups. They then allowed people to post to those newsgroups through Google Groups.
Eventually, they created their own groups that are not fed to Usenet,
also called Google Groups.
That's why you can find messages from 1982 talking about the upcoming
sequel to the Empire Strikes Back - https://groups.google.com/g/net.movies/c/8Rsra_MR3yY/m/9TIQH0a19xwJ
These mailing lists were set up to use Google Groups as the archive.
(see https://www-archive.mozilla.org/community/giganews-migration.html)
On 2021-03-29 9:20 p.m., Sailfish wrote:
My bloviated meandering follows what Chris Ilias graced us with on
3/29/2021 4:04 PM:
Chris Ilias (the list administrator of the Thunderbird support list)
can clarify this. :)
That forum (as well as this) is an amalgamation of a mailing list,
newsgroup, and google group. Every message sent to the mailing list
(hosted by Mozilla) is fed to the newsgroup (hosted by Giganews).
Every message posted to the newsgroup is sent to the mailing list,
and fed (along with messages from the mailing list) to the Google
Group (hosted by Google). Every message posted to the Google Group is
fed to the newsgroup, which then sends it to the mailing list. Using
this method, people can subscribe and post messages via whichever of
the three access-points they prefer, and still get the benefit of
community members from other access points. Basically, instead of
being three separate forums, it appears as one.
Google Groups was originally an archive of Usenet newsgroups. They
then allowed people to post to those newsgroups through Google
Groups. Eventually, they created their own groups that are not fed to
Usenet, also called Google Groups.
That's why you can find messages from 1982 talking about the upcoming
sequel to the Empire Strikes Back -
https://groups.google.com/g/net.movies/c/8Rsra_MR3yY/m/9TIQH0a19xwJ
These mailing lists were set up to use Google Groups as the archive.
(see https://www-archive.mozilla.org/community/giganews-migration.html)
Chris, very interesting and a bit convoluted. I know this may not be
in your wheelhouse to answer but do you know if these groups will
remain active in Google Groups?
I assume they will be marked as read-only, similar to what has been done
with previous mozilla newsgroups that were shut down.
For example: https://groups.google.com/g/mozilla.support.mozilla-suite
On 2021-03-29 9:20 p.m., Sailfish wrote:
My bloviated meandering follows what Chris Ilias graced us with on
3/29/2021 4:04 PM:
Chris Ilias (the list administrator of the Thunderbird support list)
can clarify this. :)
That forum (as well as this) is an amalgamation of a mailing list,
newsgroup, and google group. Every message sent to the mailing list
(hosted by Mozilla) is fed to the newsgroup (hosted by Giganews).
Every message posted to the newsgroup is sent to the mailing list,
and fed (along with messages from the mailing list) to the Google
Group (hosted by Google). Every message posted to the Google Group is
fed to the newsgroup, which then sends it to the mailing list. Using
this method, people can subscribe and post messages via whichever of
the three access-points they prefer, and still get the benefit of
community members from other access points. Basically, instead of
being three separate forums, it appears as one.
Google Groups was originally an archive of Usenet newsgroups. They
then allowed people to post to those newsgroups through Google
Groups. Eventually, they created their own groups that are not fed to
Usenet, also called Google Groups.
That's why you can find messages from 1982 talking about the upcoming
sequel to the Empire Strikes Back -
https://groups.google.com/g/net.movies/c/8Rsra_MR3yY/m/9TIQH0a19xwJ
These mailing lists were set up to use Google Groups as the archive.
(see https://www-archive.mozilla.org/community/giganews-migration.html)
Chris, very interesting and a bit convoluted. I know this may not be
in your wheelhouse to answer but do you know if these groups will
remain active in Google Groups?
I assume they will be marked as read-only, similar to what has been done
with previous mozilla newsgroups that were shut down.
For example: https://groups.google.com/g/mozilla.support.mozilla-suite
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