• London Oyster and Contactless on NR

    From e27002 aurora@21:1/5 to All on Sun Aug 27 09:19:04 2017
    XPost: uk.transport.london., uk.railway

    On Mon, 07 Aug 2017 12:43:30 -0500, rosenstiel@cix.compulink.co.uk
    wrote:

    I thought when the Mayor wanted to extend Oyster to National Rail route in >London ATOC insisted that railcards had to be recognised and discounts
    given. So the system to register railcards on Oyster cards was somewhat >haphazardly introduced. For example you couldn't check railcard registration >status at a ticket machine. It was only when they decided to close all the >ticket offices that they had to make it possible as it now is.

    But for people living outside London who aren't regular visitors contactless >became a much better option when introduced unless you are a railcard holder >because, although Oyster cards have to be registered to get railcard >discounts, they have not enabled railcard discounts against Contactless >travel.

    So NR passengers can't get their railcard discounts using contactless. My >question is why ATOC put up with this? It seems to go completely against >their agreement to allow Oyster to NR routes.

    As the hub at the center of the UK's rail network, I have never
    understood why London's Rapid Transit system must be the exception to
    the rules apply to the rest of the UK's railways. Its ticketing
    arrangements should work in line with the other railways.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From e27002 aurora@21:1/5 to All on Sun Aug 27 13:39:24 2017
    XPost: uk.railway, uk.transport.london

    On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 13:28:03 +0100, Robert <coppercapped@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On 2017-08-27 12:12:17 +0000, e27002 aurora said:

    On Mon, 07 Aug 2017 12:43:30 -0500, rosenstiel@cix.compulink.co.uk
    wrote:

    I thought when the Mayor wanted to extend Oyster to National Rail route in >>> London ATOC insisted that railcards had to be recognised and discounts
    given. So the system to register railcards on Oyster cards was somewhat
    haphazardly introduced. For example you couldn't check railcard registration
    status at a ticket machine. It was only when they decided to close all the >>> ticket offices that they had to make it possible as it now is.

    But for people living outside London who aren't regular visitors contactless
    became a much better option when introduced unless you are a railcard holder
    because, although Oyster cards have to be registered to get railcard
    discounts, they have not enabled railcard discounts against Contactless
    travel.

    So NR passengers can't get their railcard discounts using contactless. My >>> question is why ATOC put up with this? It seems to go completely against >>> their agreement to allow Oyster to NR routes.

    As the hub at the center of the UK's rail network, I have never
    understood why London's Rapid Transit system must be the exception to
    the rules apply to the rest of the UK's railways. Its ticketing
    arrangements should work in line with the other railways.

    I'm confused. Why have you posted the same text with two slightly
    different subject lines a few hours apart?

    Typo in a group name first time thru.

    And why do you think a ticketing system designed for a limited
    geographic area and for a system which carries half the total number of >passengers in the UK should be in line with that needed for the rest of
    the UK?

    Why do the ticketing systems of one TOC work on all TOCs? It is for
    passenger convenience. The London Underground is the hub of the
    passenger rail system. As YOU say it accounts for half of the UK's
    passenger journeys. Many of those journeys start outwith their
    system, yet they reserve the right to be an exception to the rules.

    And do you not think the systems will evolve to remove some of the >idiosyncrasies

    Hope springs eternal.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Roland Perry@21:1/5 to All on Sun Aug 27 13:56:38 2017
    XPost: uk.railway, uk.transport.london

    In message <u0f5qc1fkfkh285j9ueknhclj8t3khdh24@4ax.com>, at 13:39:24 on
    Sun, 27 Aug 2017, e27002 aurora <adrianhudson@sprintmail.com> remarked:
    And why do you think a ticketing system designed for a limited
    geographic area and for a system which carries half the total number of >>passengers in the UK should be in line with that needed for the rest of
    the UK?

    Why do the ticketing systems of one TOC work on all TOCs? It is for >passenger convenience. The London Underground is the hub of the
    passenger rail system. As YOU say it accounts for half of the UK's
    passenger journeys. Many of those journeys start outwith their
    system, yet they reserve the right to be an exception to the rules.

    I'm more interested in why the lack of discount for *National Rail*
    journeys which just happen to be inside the Oyster area, and paid for by Oyster.

    eg Gatwick to Elstree (surely soon also Luton Airport Parkway).

    http://content.tfl.gov.uk/london-rail-and-tube-services-map.pdf
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From e27002 aurora@21:1/5 to All on Sun Aug 27 14:43:39 2017
    XPost: uk.railway, uk.transport.london

    On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 13:56:38 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
    wrote:

    In message <u0f5qc1fkfkh285j9ueknhclj8t3khdh24@4ax.com>, at 13:39:24 on
    Sun, 27 Aug 2017, e27002 aurora <adrianhudson@sprintmail.com> remarked:
    And why do you think a ticketing system designed for a limited
    geographic area and for a system which carries half the total number of >>>passengers in the UK should be in line with that needed for the rest of >>>the UK?

    Why do the ticketing systems of one TOC work on all TOCs? It is for >>passenger convenience. The London Underground is the hub of the
    passenger rail system. As YOU say it accounts for half of the UK's >>passenger journeys. Many of those journeys start outwith their
    system, yet they reserve the right to be an exception to the rules.

    I'm more interested in why the lack of discount for *National Rail*
    journeys which just happen to be inside the Oyster area, and paid for by >Oyster.

    Oyster is TfL's baby and they operate to their own rules ignoring the
    discounts to which passengers are entitled.

    egg Gatwick to Elstree (surely soon also Luton Airport Parkway).

    http://content.tfl.gov.uk/london-rail-and-tube-services-map.pdf

    If they pull these stunts on the Elizabeth Line there may be a
    backlash from passengers on the former Western Region.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From e27002 aurora@21:1/5 to notyalckram@gmail.com on Sun Aug 27 14:56:21 2017
    XPost: uk.railway, uk.transport.london

    On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 06:44:47 -0700 (PDT), "R. Mark Clayton" <notyalckram@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, 27 August 2017 13:47:06 UTC+1, Recliner wrote:
    Robert <coppercapped@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 2017-08-27 12:12:17 +0000, e27002 aurora said:

    On Mon, 07 Aug 2017 12:43:30 -0500, rosenstiel@cix.compulink.co.uk
    wrote:

    I thought when the Mayor wanted to extend Oyster to National Rail route in
    London ATOC insisted that railcards had to be recognised and discounts >> >>> given. So the system to register railcards on Oyster cards was somewhat >> >>> haphazardly introduced. For example you couldn't check railcard registration
    status at a ticket machine. It was only when they decided to close all the
    ticket offices that they had to make it possible as it now is.

    But for people living outside London who aren't regular visitors contactless
    became a much better option when introduced unless you are a railcard holder
    because, although Oyster cards have to be registered to get railcard
    discounts, they have not enabled railcard discounts against Contactless >> >>> travel.

    So NR passengers can't get their railcard discounts using contactless. My
    question is why ATOC put up with this? It seems to go completely against >> >>> their agreement to allow Oyster to NR routes.

    As the hub at the center of the UK's rail network, I have never
    understood why London's Rapid Transit system must be the exception to
    the rules apply to the rest of the UK's railways. Its ticketing
    arrangements should work in line with the other railways.

    I'm confused. Why have you posted the same text with two slightly
    different subject lines a few hours apart?

    And why do you think a ticketing system designed for a limited
    geographic area and for a system which carries half the total number of
    passengers in the UK should be in line with that needed for the rest of
    the UK?

    I think we know why Adrian thinks the way he does: TfL is controlled by a
    Labour mayor, while the DfT is headed by a right-wing secretary of state.
    Ergo, everything that TfL does must be bad, and everything the DfT does
    must have been for the best possible reasons.

    We can safely ignore Nigel's haverings. This about passenger value
    for money, and passenger convenience. If a customer is entitled to a
    discount he should receive it.

    The fact that London has a smart card that actually works, while the Ft.'s >> preferred ITSO standard smart card is neither standard nor smart, is
    neither here nor there.

    But everyone else uses ITSO.

    The UK need to have a common standard developed, it should be legally
    available across all public railway and bus networks.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Certes@21:1/5 to Roland Perry on Sun Aug 27 16:34:17 2017
    XPost: uk.railway, uk.transport.london

    On 27/08/17 16:22, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <lej5qcp79gl8m9illnnev2a9p1l3bmd698@4ax.com>, at 14:56:21 on
    Sun, 27 Aug 2017, e27002 aurora <adrianhudson@sprintmail.com> remarked:
    The UK need to have a common standard developed, it should be legally
    available across all public railway and bus networks.

    It's called "cash".

    Again, available virtually everywhere except London buses.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Roland Perry@21:1/5 to All on Sun Aug 27 16:22:18 2017
    XPost: uk.railway, uk.transport.london

    In message <lej5qcp79gl8m9illnnev2a9p1l3bmd698@4ax.com>, at 14:56:21 on
    Sun, 27 Aug 2017, e27002 aurora <adrianhudson@sprintmail.com> remarked:
    The UK need to have a common standard developed, it should be legally >available across all public railway and bus networks.

    It's called "cash".
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From e27002 aurora@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 28 08:41:20 2017
    XPost: uk.transport.london, uk.railway

    On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 18:38:15 -0500, rosenstiel@cix.compulink.co.uk
    wrote:

    In article <lej5qcp79gl8m9illnnev2a9p1l3bmd698@4ax.com>, >adrianhudson@sprintmail.com (e27002 aurora) wrote:

    On Sunday, 27 August 2017 13:47:06 UTC+1, Recliner wrote:
    On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 06:44:47 -0700 (PDT), "R. Mark Clayton"
    <notyalckram@gmail.com> wrote:

    The fact that London has a smart card that actually works, while the
    Ft.'s preferred ITSO standard smart card is neither standard nor smart, >> >> is neither here nor there.

    But everyone else uses ITSO.

    The UK need to have a common standard developed, it should be legally
    available across all public railway and bus networks.

    That was supposed to be ITSO but even within the same company's operations
    it isn't inter-available

    Someone dropped the ball on that one!

    and anyway on card storage technology is
    obsolescent now.

    So, what's next?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Roland Perry@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 28 09:37:29 2017
    XPost: uk.transport.london, uk.railway

    In message <95i7qcl5ooa8d9s7natbc7ssqccf0pqvl0@4ax.com>, at 08:41:20 on
    Mon, 28 Aug 2017, e27002 aurora <adrianhudson@sprintmail.com> remarked:

    and anyway on card storage technology is obsolescent now.

    So, what's next?

    They are attempting to externalise the cost to the customer, so that the
    pays for the storage medium (a smartphone) and its connectivity.

    What's interesting from a technology-watcher's point of view is that the railways don't have the slightest idea how this is all going to end up,
    let alone how to get from here to there.

    Since ITSO from 2009 we've had numerous pilots: barcodes on phones using
    MMS or other generic technology, barcodes on phones delivered by a
    special app, combined credit card and Oyster (to combat 'card bloat'),
    trying to second guess the ticketing cost by examining your location
    trails, NFC on phones [basically turning the phone's back cover into a smartcard], and even embedding a traditional smartcard in the phone.

    The only one that's showing staying power is Contactless Credit Cards.

    Hmm, I wonder if that's planned to work with any third party
    pay-by-phone contactless technologies [from Apple Pay via Google pay to
    quirky ones like PayQwiq - pass the siqwbag], other than *just* Visa/Mastercard?

    Carrying a physical Credit Card is just so passé, my dharling.

    I have a visitor arriving at Heathrow from the USA next week, and it'll
    be interesting to see if his credit card works the TfL gates.

    --
    Roland Perry

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From e27002 aurora@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 28 10:42:49 2017
    XPost: uk.railway, uk.tranport.london

    On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 09:20:13 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
    wrote:

    In message <nai7qc93a09p6m1ssud9q4sm2seal6b7lk@4ax.com>, at 08:45:54 on
    Mon, 28 Aug 2017, e27002 aurora <adrianhudson@sprintmail.com> remarked:
    DfT has abandoned it. It will now probably fade away as more modern >>>methods take over.

    So, what comes next? SWT had only been promoting their card for about
    a year when their franchise ended!

    That's not true, it was one of the first to be launched, back in 2009.

    OK. I only became of it after a publicity push a while back. It will
    be interesting to see what SWT do. Overall, I am not optimistic about
    the new franchise. Stagecoach have a better reputation than First
    Group.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From e27002 aurora@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 28 10:39:41 2017
    XPost: uk.transport.london, uk.railway

    On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 09:37:29 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
    wrote:

    In message <95i7qcl5ooa8d9s7natbc7ssqccf0pqvl0@4ax.com>, at 08:41:20 on
    Mon, 28 Aug 2017, e27002 aurora <adrianhudson@sprintmail.com> remarked:

    and anyway on card storage technology is obsolescent now.

    So, what's next?

    They are attempting to externalise the cost to the customer, so that the
    pays for the storage medium (a smartphone) and its connectivity.

    What's interesting from a technology-watcher's point of view is that the >railways don't have the slightest idea how this is all going to end up,
    let alone how to get from here to there.

    Since ITSO from 2009 we've had numerous pilots: barcodes on phones using
    MMS or other generic technology, barcodes on phones delivered by a
    special app, combined credit card and Oyster (to combat 'card bloat'),
    trying to second guess the ticketing cost by examining your location
    trails, NFC on phones [basically turning the phone's back cover into a >smartcard], and even embedding a traditional smartcard in the phone.

    The only one that's showing staying power is Contactless Credit Cards.

    Hmm, I wonder if that's planned to work with any third party
    pay-by-phone contactless technologies [from Apple Pay via Google pay to >quirky ones like PayQwiq - pass the siqwbag], other than *just* >Visa/Mastercard?

    Carrying a physical Credit Card is just so passé, my dharling.

    I have a visitor arriving at Heathrow from the USA next week, and it'll
    be interesting to see if his credit card works the TfL gates.

    A few months back my replacement debit card arrived from my US
    bankers. Finally! it is chip & pin. That is close to a decade after
    the UK banks. BUT, it is not contactless.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Recliner@21:1/5 to Roland Perry on Mon Aug 28 11:15:22 2017
    XPost: uk.railway, uk.transport.london

    Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
    In message <95i7qcl5ooa8d9s7natbc7ssqccf0pqvl0@4ax.com>, at 08:41:20 on
    Mon, 28 Aug 2017, e27002 aurora <adrianhudson@sprintmail.com> remarked:

    and anyway on card storage technology is obsolescent now.

    So, what's next?

    They are attempting to externalise the cost to the customer, so that the
    pays for the storage medium (a smartphone) and its connectivity.

    What's interesting from a technology-watcher's point of view is that the railways don't have the slightest idea how this is all going to end up,
    let alone how to get from here to there.

    Since ITSO from 2009 we've had numerous pilots: barcodes on phones using
    MMS or other generic technology, barcodes on phones delivered by a
    special app, combined credit card and Oyster (to combat 'card bloat'),
    trying to second guess the ticketing cost by examining your location
    trails, NFC on phones [basically turning the phone's back cover into a smartcard], and even embedding a traditional smartcard in the phone.

    The only one that's showing staying power is Contactless Credit Cards.

    Hmm, I wonder if that's planned to work with any third party
    pay-by-phone contactless technologies [from Apple Pay via Google pay to quirky ones like PayQwiq - pass the siqwbag], other than *just* Visa/Mastercard?

    <https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/other-methods-of-contactless-payment/apple-pay>

    <https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/other-methods-of-contactless-payment/android-pay>

    <https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/other-methods-of-contactless-payment/barclaycard-and-barclays-contactless-mobile>


    Carrying a physical Credit Card is just so passé, my dharling.

    I have a visitor arriving at Heathrow from the USA next week, and it'll
    be interesting to see if his credit card works the TfL gates.

    Like you, I somehow doubt it. I don't think many US credit cards are contactless.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Graeme Wall@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 28 12:17:46 2017
    XPost: uk.railway, uk.tranport.london

    On 28/08/2017 10:42, e27002 aurora wrote:
    On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 09:20:13 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
    wrote:

    In message <nai7qc93a09p6m1ssud9q4sm2seal6b7lk@4ax.com>, at 08:45:54 on
    Mon, 28 Aug 2017, e27002 aurora <adrianhudson@sprintmail.com> remarked:
    DfT has abandoned it. It will now probably fade away as more modern
    methods take over.

    So, what comes next? SWT had only been promoting their card for about
    a year when their franchise ended!

    That's not true, it was one of the first to be launched, back in 2009.

    OK. I only became of it after a publicity push a while back. It will
    be interesting to see what SWT do. O

    Can't see SWT doing anything now :-)


    --
    Graeme Wall
    This account not read.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Recliner@21:1/5 to Graeme Wall on Mon Aug 28 11:27:22 2017
    XPost: uk.railway, uk.tranport.london

    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
    On 28/08/2017 10:42, e27002 aurora wrote:
    On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 09:20:13 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
    wrote:

    In message <nai7qc93a09p6m1ssud9q4sm2seal6b7lk@4ax.com>, at 08:45:54 on
    Mon, 28 Aug 2017, e27002 aurora <adrianhudson@sprintmail.com> remarked: >>>>> DfT has abandoned it. It will now probably fade away as more modern
    methods take over.

    So, what comes next? SWT had only been promoting their card for about >>>> a year when their franchise ended!

    That's not true, it was one of the first to be launched, back in 2009.

    OK. I only became of it after a publicity push a while back. It will
    be interesting to see what SWT do. O

    Can't see SWT doing anything now :-)

    I wonder if SWR will acquire the nickname "the Swear"?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Roland Perry@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 28 13:34:33 2017
    XPost: uk.railway, uk.transport.london

    In message <2128631847.525611715.766279.recliner.ng-btinternet.com@news.eternal-sept ember.org>, at 11:15:22 on Mon, 28 Aug 2017, Recliner <recliner.ng@btinternet.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
    In message <95i7qcl5ooa8d9s7natbc7ssqccf0pqvl0@4ax.com>, at 08:41:20 on
    Mon, 28 Aug 2017, e27002 aurora <adrianhudson@sprintmail.com> remarked:

    and anyway on card storage technology is obsolescent now.

    So, what's next?

    They are attempting to externalise the cost to the customer, so that the
    pays for the storage medium (a smartphone) and its connectivity.

    What's interesting from a technology-watcher's point of view is that the
    railways don't have the slightest idea how this is all going to end up,
    let alone how to get from here to there.

    Since ITSO from 2009 we've had numerous pilots: barcodes on phones using
    MMS or other generic technology, barcodes on phones delivered by a
    special app, combined credit card and Oyster (to combat 'card bloat'),
    trying to second guess the ticketing cost by examining your location
    trails, NFC on phones [basically turning the phone's back cover into a
    smartcard], and even embedding a traditional smartcard in the phone.

    The only one that's showing staying power is Contactless Credit Cards.

    Hmm, I wonder if that's planned to work with any third party
    pay-by-phone contactless technologies [from Apple Pay via Google pay to
    quirky ones like PayQwiq - pass the siqwbag], other than *just*
    Visa/Mastercard?

    <https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/other-methods-of-cont >actless-payment/apple-pay>

    They must have slipped that in without me noticing. Where on the gate is
    the Apple-pay logo?

    <https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/other-methods-of-cont >actless-payment/android-pay>

    <https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/other-methods-of-cont >actless-payment/barclaycard-and-barclays-contactless-mobile>


    Carrying a physical Credit Card is just so passé, my dharling.

    I have a visitor arriving at Heathrow from the USA next week, and it'll
    be interesting to see if his credit card works the TfL gates.

    Like you, I somehow doubt it. I don't think many US credit cards are >contactless.

    Nor are all my UK ones. The one I'd use the most (debit card on business account) is a far as I can tell not available in contactless at all.
    Maybe they don't like the idea of unauthorised overdrafts (contrary to
    popular belief, regular contactless transactions don't necessarily debit
    your balance in real time, and of course TfL ones won't hit until
    overnight).
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From John Levine@21:1/5 to roland@perry.co.uk on Mon Aug 28 19:06:39 2017
    XPost: uk.transport.london, uk.railway

    In article <OJnWN5uJZ9oZFAee@perry.co.uk>,
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
    I have a visitor arriving at Heathrow from the USA next week, and it'll
    be interesting to see if his credit card works the TfL gates.

    I've used my U.S. AmEx on the tube. Worked fine. It's contactless
    chip and signature.

    If your friend's credit card doesn't work, that's probably because
    it's not contactless. In my experience the majority of US cards are
    still not, even though they have contact chips.

    With respect to Apple Pay and Android Pay, it was my impression that
    they use the same interface as contactless cards, so they should
    work automagically on any contactless payment device. I should try
    my phone when I'm in London in the spring.

    R's,
    John

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From damduck-egg@yahoo.co.uk@21:1/5 to recliner.ng@btinternet.com on Mon Aug 28 20:50:00 2017
    XPost: uk.railway, uk.tranport.london

    On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 11:27:22 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
    <recliner.ng@btinternet.com> wrote:



    OK. I only became of it after a publicity push a while back. It will
    be interesting to see what SWT do. O

    Can't see SWT doing anything now :-)

    I wonder if SWR will acquire the nickname "the Swear"?

    It they get really unpopular they might become the Sewer , might be
    apt that a connection from the city might be down the drain and then
    along the Sewer.

    G.Harman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mark Bestley@21:1/5 to Roland Perry on Mon Aug 28 21:46:41 2017
    XPost: uk.railway, uk.transport.london

    Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:

    In message <2128631847.525611715.766279.recliner.ng-btinternet.com@news.eternal-sept ember.org>, at 11:15:22 on Mon, 28 Aug 2017, Recliner <recliner.ng@btinternet.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
    In message <95i7qcl5ooa8d9s7natbc7ssqccf0pqvl0@4ax.com>, at 08:41:20 on
    Mon, 28 Aug 2017, e27002 aurora <adrianhudson@sprintmail.com> remarked:

    and anyway on card storage technology is obsolescent now.

    So, what's next?

    They are attempting to externalise the cost to the customer, so that the >> pays for the storage medium (a smartphone) and its connectivity.

    What's interesting from a technology-watcher's point of view is that the >> railways don't have the slightest idea how this is all going to end up,
    let alone how to get from here to there.

    Since ITSO from 2009 we've had numerous pilots: barcodes on phones using >> MMS or other generic technology, barcodes on phones delivered by a
    special app, combined credit card and Oyster (to combat 'card bloat'),
    trying to second guess the ticketing cost by examining your location
    trails, NFC on phones [basically turning the phone's back cover into a
    smartcard], and even embedding a traditional smartcard in the phone.

    The only one that's showing staying power is Contactless Credit Cards.

    Hmm, I wonder if that's planned to work with any third party
    pay-by-phone contactless technologies [from Apple Pay via Google pay to
    quirky ones like PayQwiq - pass the siqwbag], other than *just*
    Visa/Mastercard?

    <https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/other-methods-of-cont >actless-payment/apple-pay>

    They must have slipped that in without me noticing. Where on the gate is
    the Apple-pay logo?


    Not needed if a reader does contactless it does Apple or Android pay


    <https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/other-methods-of-cont >actless-payment/android-pay>

    <https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/other-methods-of-cont >actless-payment/barclaycard-and-barclays-contactless-mobile>



    --
    Mark

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  • From Anna Noyd-Dryver@21:1/5 to adrianhudson@sprintmail.com on Tue Aug 29 19:17:19 2017
    XPost: uk.railway, uk.transport.london.

    e27002 aurora <adrianhudson@sprintmail.com> wrote:
    On Mon, 07 Aug 2017 12:43:30 -0500, rosenstiel@cix.compulink.co.uk
    wrote:

    I thought when the Mayor wanted to extend Oyster to National Rail route in >> London ATOC insisted that railcards had to be recognised and discounts
    given. So the system to register railcards on Oyster cards was somewhat
    haphazardly introduced. For example you couldn't check railcard registration >> status at a ticket machine. It was only when they decided to close all the >> ticket offices that they had to make it possible as it now is.

    But for people living outside London who aren't regular visitors contactless >> became a much better option when introduced unless you are a railcard holder >> because, although Oyster cards have to be registered to get railcard
    discounts, they have not enabled railcard discounts against Contactless
    travel.

    So NR passengers can't get their railcard discounts using contactless. My
    question is why ATOC put up with this? It seems to go completely against
    their agreement to allow Oyster to NR routes.

    As the hub at the center of the UK's rail network, I have never
    understood why London's Rapid Transit system must be the exception to
    the rules apply to the rest of the UK's railways. Its ticketing
    arrangements should work in line with the other railways.


    Expensive walk-up fares but Oxford Circus-Paddington for 3p if you book
    three weeks ahead and travel on a specific train?


    Anna Noyd-Dryver

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