I thought when the Mayor wanted to extend Oyster to National Rail route in >London ATOC insisted that railcards had to be recognised and discounts
given. So the system to register railcards on Oyster cards was somewhat >haphazardly introduced. For example you couldn't check railcard registration >status at a ticket machine. It was only when they decided to close all the >ticket offices that they had to make it possible as it now is.
But for people living outside London who aren't regular visitors contactless >became a much better option when introduced unless you are a railcard holder >because, although Oyster cards have to be registered to get railcard >discounts, they have not enabled railcard discounts against Contactless >travel.
So NR passengers can't get their railcard discounts using contactless. My >question is why ATOC put up with this? It seems to go completely against >their agreement to allow Oyster to NR routes.
On 2017-08-27 12:12:17 +0000, e27002 aurora said:
On Mon, 07 Aug 2017 12:43:30 -0500, rosenstiel@cix.compulink.co.uk
wrote:
I thought when the Mayor wanted to extend Oyster to National Rail route in >>> London ATOC insisted that railcards had to be recognised and discounts
given. So the system to register railcards on Oyster cards was somewhat
haphazardly introduced. For example you couldn't check railcard registration
status at a ticket machine. It was only when they decided to close all the >>> ticket offices that they had to make it possible as it now is.
But for people living outside London who aren't regular visitors contactless
became a much better option when introduced unless you are a railcard holder
because, although Oyster cards have to be registered to get railcard
discounts, they have not enabled railcard discounts against Contactless
travel.
So NR passengers can't get their railcard discounts using contactless. My >>> question is why ATOC put up with this? It seems to go completely against >>> their agreement to allow Oyster to NR routes.
As the hub at the center of the UK's rail network, I have never
understood why London's Rapid Transit system must be the exception to
the rules apply to the rest of the UK's railways. Its ticketing
arrangements should work in line with the other railways.
I'm confused. Why have you posted the same text with two slightly
different subject lines a few hours apart?
And why do you think a ticketing system designed for a limited
geographic area and for a system which carries half the total number of >passengers in the UK should be in line with that needed for the rest of
the UK?
And do you not think the systems will evolve to remove some of the >idiosyncrasies
And why do you think a ticketing system designed for a limited
geographic area and for a system which carries half the total number of >>passengers in the UK should be in line with that needed for the rest of
the UK?
Why do the ticketing systems of one TOC work on all TOCs? It is for >passenger convenience. The London Underground is the hub of the
passenger rail system. As YOU say it accounts for half of the UK's
passenger journeys. Many of those journeys start outwith their
system, yet they reserve the right to be an exception to the rules.
In message <u0f5qc1fkfkh285j9ueknhclj8t3khdh24@4ax.com>, at 13:39:24 on
Sun, 27 Aug 2017, e27002 aurora <adrianhudson@sprintmail.com> remarked:
And why do you think a ticketing system designed for a limited
geographic area and for a system which carries half the total number of >>>passengers in the UK should be in line with that needed for the rest of >>>the UK?
Why do the ticketing systems of one TOC work on all TOCs? It is for >>passenger convenience. The London Underground is the hub of the
passenger rail system. As YOU say it accounts for half of the UK's >>passenger journeys. Many of those journeys start outwith their
system, yet they reserve the right to be an exception to the rules.
I'm more interested in why the lack of discount for *National Rail*
journeys which just happen to be inside the Oyster area, and paid for by >Oyster.
egg Gatwick to Elstree (surely soon also Luton Airport Parkway).
http://content.tfl.gov.uk/london-rail-and-tube-services-map.pdf
On Sunday, 27 August 2017 13:47:06 UTC+1, Recliner wrote:We can safely ignore Nigel's haverings. This about passenger value
Robert <coppercapped@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2017-08-27 12:12:17 +0000, e27002 aurora said:
On Mon, 07 Aug 2017 12:43:30 -0500, rosenstiel@cix.compulink.co.uk
wrote:
I thought when the Mayor wanted to extend Oyster to National Rail route in
London ATOC insisted that railcards had to be recognised and discounts >> >>> given. So the system to register railcards on Oyster cards was somewhat >> >>> haphazardly introduced. For example you couldn't check railcard registration
status at a ticket machine. It was only when they decided to close all the
ticket offices that they had to make it possible as it now is.
But for people living outside London who aren't regular visitors contactless
became a much better option when introduced unless you are a railcard holder
because, although Oyster cards have to be registered to get railcard
discounts, they have not enabled railcard discounts against Contactless >> >>> travel.
So NR passengers can't get their railcard discounts using contactless. My
question is why ATOC put up with this? It seems to go completely against >> >>> their agreement to allow Oyster to NR routes.
As the hub at the center of the UK's rail network, I have never
understood why London's Rapid Transit system must be the exception to
the rules apply to the rest of the UK's railways. Its ticketing
arrangements should work in line with the other railways.
I'm confused. Why have you posted the same text with two slightly
different subject lines a few hours apart?
And why do you think a ticketing system designed for a limited
geographic area and for a system which carries half the total number of
passengers in the UK should be in line with that needed for the rest of
the UK?
I think we know why Adrian thinks the way he does: TfL is controlled by a
Labour mayor, while the DfT is headed by a right-wing secretary of state.
Ergo, everything that TfL does must be bad, and everything the DfT does
must have been for the best possible reasons.
The fact that London has a smart card that actually works, while the Ft.'s >> preferred ITSO standard smart card is neither standard nor smart, is
neither here nor there.
But everyone else uses ITSO.
In message <lej5qcp79gl8m9illnnev2a9p1l3bmd698@4ax.com>, at 14:56:21 on
Sun, 27 Aug 2017, e27002 aurora <adrianhudson@sprintmail.com> remarked:
The UK need to have a common standard developed, it should be legally
available across all public railway and bus networks.
It's called "cash".
The UK need to have a common standard developed, it should be legally >available across all public railway and bus networks.
In article <lej5qcp79gl8m9illnnev2a9p1l3bmd698@4ax.com>, >adrianhudson@sprintmail.com (e27002 aurora) wrote:
On Sunday, 27 August 2017 13:47:06 UTC+1, Recliner wrote:On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 06:44:47 -0700 (PDT), "R. Mark Clayton"
<notyalckram@gmail.com> wrote:
The fact that London has a smart card that actually works, while the
Ft.'s preferred ITSO standard smart card is neither standard nor smart, >> >> is neither here nor there.
But everyone else uses ITSO.
The UK need to have a common standard developed, it should be legally
available across all public railway and bus networks.
That was supposed to be ITSO but even within the same company's operations
it isn't inter-available
and anyway on card storage technology is
obsolescent now.
and anyway on card storage technology is obsolescent now.
So, what's next?
In message <nai7qc93a09p6m1ssud9q4sm2seal6b7lk@4ax.com>, at 08:45:54 on
Mon, 28 Aug 2017, e27002 aurora <adrianhudson@sprintmail.com> remarked:
DfT has abandoned it. It will now probably fade away as more modern >>>methods take over.
So, what comes next? SWT had only been promoting their card for about
a year when their franchise ended!
That's not true, it was one of the first to be launched, back in 2009.
In message <95i7qcl5ooa8d9s7natbc7ssqccf0pqvl0@4ax.com>, at 08:41:20 on
Mon, 28 Aug 2017, e27002 aurora <adrianhudson@sprintmail.com> remarked:
and anyway on card storage technology is obsolescent now.
So, what's next?
They are attempting to externalise the cost to the customer, so that the
pays for the storage medium (a smartphone) and its connectivity.
What's interesting from a technology-watcher's point of view is that the >railways don't have the slightest idea how this is all going to end up,
let alone how to get from here to there.
Since ITSO from 2009 we've had numerous pilots: barcodes on phones using
MMS or other generic technology, barcodes on phones delivered by a
special app, combined credit card and Oyster (to combat 'card bloat'),
trying to second guess the ticketing cost by examining your location
trails, NFC on phones [basically turning the phone's back cover into a >smartcard], and even embedding a traditional smartcard in the phone.
The only one that's showing staying power is Contactless Credit Cards.
Hmm, I wonder if that's planned to work with any third party
pay-by-phone contactless technologies [from Apple Pay via Google pay to >quirky ones like PayQwiq - pass the siqwbag], other than *just* >Visa/Mastercard?
Carrying a physical Credit Card is just so passé, my dharling.
I have a visitor arriving at Heathrow from the USA next week, and it'll
be interesting to see if his credit card works the TfL gates.
In message <95i7qcl5ooa8d9s7natbc7ssqccf0pqvl0@4ax.com>, at 08:41:20 on
Mon, 28 Aug 2017, e27002 aurora <adrianhudson@sprintmail.com> remarked:
and anyway on card storage technology is obsolescent now.
So, what's next?
They are attempting to externalise the cost to the customer, so that the
pays for the storage medium (a smartphone) and its connectivity.
What's interesting from a technology-watcher's point of view is that the railways don't have the slightest idea how this is all going to end up,
let alone how to get from here to there.
Since ITSO from 2009 we've had numerous pilots: barcodes on phones using
MMS or other generic technology, barcodes on phones delivered by a
special app, combined credit card and Oyster (to combat 'card bloat'),
trying to second guess the ticketing cost by examining your location
trails, NFC on phones [basically turning the phone's back cover into a smartcard], and even embedding a traditional smartcard in the phone.
The only one that's showing staying power is Contactless Credit Cards.
Hmm, I wonder if that's planned to work with any third party
pay-by-phone contactless technologies [from Apple Pay via Google pay to quirky ones like PayQwiq - pass the siqwbag], other than *just* Visa/Mastercard?
Carrying a physical Credit Card is just so passé, my dharling.
I have a visitor arriving at Heathrow from the USA next week, and it'll
be interesting to see if his credit card works the TfL gates.
On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 09:20:13 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:
In message <nai7qc93a09p6m1ssud9q4sm2seal6b7lk@4ax.com>, at 08:45:54 on
Mon, 28 Aug 2017, e27002 aurora <adrianhudson@sprintmail.com> remarked:
DfT has abandoned it. It will now probably fade away as more modern
methods take over.
So, what comes next? SWT had only been promoting their card for about
a year when their franchise ended!
That's not true, it was one of the first to be launched, back in 2009.
OK. I only became of it after a publicity push a while back. It will
be interesting to see what SWT do. O
On 28/08/2017 10:42, e27002 aurora wrote:
On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 09:20:13 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:
In message <nai7qc93a09p6m1ssud9q4sm2seal6b7lk@4ax.com>, at 08:45:54 on
Mon, 28 Aug 2017, e27002 aurora <adrianhudson@sprintmail.com> remarked: >>>>> DfT has abandoned it. It will now probably fade away as more modern
methods take over.
So, what comes next? SWT had only been promoting their card for about >>>> a year when their franchise ended!
That's not true, it was one of the first to be launched, back in 2009.
OK. I only became of it after a publicity push a while back. It will
be interesting to see what SWT do. O
Can't see SWT doing anything now :-)
Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
In message <95i7qcl5ooa8d9s7natbc7ssqccf0pqvl0@4ax.com>, at 08:41:20 on
Mon, 28 Aug 2017, e27002 aurora <adrianhudson@sprintmail.com> remarked:
and anyway on card storage technology is obsolescent now.
So, what's next?
They are attempting to externalise the cost to the customer, so that the
pays for the storage medium (a smartphone) and its connectivity.
What's interesting from a technology-watcher's point of view is that the
railways don't have the slightest idea how this is all going to end up,
let alone how to get from here to there.
Since ITSO from 2009 we've had numerous pilots: barcodes on phones using
MMS or other generic technology, barcodes on phones delivered by a
special app, combined credit card and Oyster (to combat 'card bloat'),
trying to second guess the ticketing cost by examining your location
trails, NFC on phones [basically turning the phone's back cover into a
smartcard], and even embedding a traditional smartcard in the phone.
The only one that's showing staying power is Contactless Credit Cards.
Hmm, I wonder if that's planned to work with any third party
pay-by-phone contactless technologies [from Apple Pay via Google pay to
quirky ones like PayQwiq - pass the siqwbag], other than *just*
Visa/Mastercard?
<https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/other-methods-of-cont >actless-payment/apple-pay>
<https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/other-methods-of-cont >actless-payment/android-pay>
<https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/other-methods-of-cont >actless-payment/barclaycard-and-barclays-contactless-mobile>
Carrying a physical Credit Card is just so passé, my dharling.
I have a visitor arriving at Heathrow from the USA next week, and it'll
be interesting to see if his credit card works the TfL gates.
Like you, I somehow doubt it. I don't think many US credit cards are >contactless.
I have a visitor arriving at Heathrow from the USA next week, and it'll
be interesting to see if his credit card works the TfL gates.
OK. I only became of it after a publicity push a while back. It will
be interesting to see what SWT do. O
Can't see SWT doing anything now :-)
I wonder if SWR will acquire the nickname "the Swear"?
In message <2128631847.525611715.766279.recliner.ng-btinternet.com@news.eternal-sept ember.org>, at 11:15:22 on Mon, 28 Aug 2017, Recliner <recliner.ng@btinternet.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
In message <95i7qcl5ooa8d9s7natbc7ssqccf0pqvl0@4ax.com>, at 08:41:20 on
Mon, 28 Aug 2017, e27002 aurora <adrianhudson@sprintmail.com> remarked:
and anyway on card storage technology is obsolescent now.
So, what's next?
They are attempting to externalise the cost to the customer, so that the >> pays for the storage medium (a smartphone) and its connectivity.
What's interesting from a technology-watcher's point of view is that the >> railways don't have the slightest idea how this is all going to end up,
let alone how to get from here to there.
Since ITSO from 2009 we've had numerous pilots: barcodes on phones using >> MMS or other generic technology, barcodes on phones delivered by a
special app, combined credit card and Oyster (to combat 'card bloat'),
trying to second guess the ticketing cost by examining your location
trails, NFC on phones [basically turning the phone's back cover into a
smartcard], and even embedding a traditional smartcard in the phone.
The only one that's showing staying power is Contactless Credit Cards.
Hmm, I wonder if that's planned to work with any third party
pay-by-phone contactless technologies [from Apple Pay via Google pay to
quirky ones like PayQwiq - pass the siqwbag], other than *just*
Visa/Mastercard?
<https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/other-methods-of-cont >actless-payment/apple-pay>
They must have slipped that in without me noticing. Where on the gate is
the Apple-pay logo?
<https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/other-methods-of-cont >actless-payment/android-pay>
<https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/other-methods-of-cont >actless-payment/barclaycard-and-barclays-contactless-mobile>
On Mon, 07 Aug 2017 12:43:30 -0500, rosenstiel@cix.compulink.co.uk
wrote:
I thought when the Mayor wanted to extend Oyster to National Rail route in >> London ATOC insisted that railcards had to be recognised and discounts
given. So the system to register railcards on Oyster cards was somewhat
haphazardly introduced. For example you couldn't check railcard registration >> status at a ticket machine. It was only when they decided to close all the >> ticket offices that they had to make it possible as it now is.
But for people living outside London who aren't regular visitors contactless >> became a much better option when introduced unless you are a railcard holder >> because, although Oyster cards have to be registered to get railcard
discounts, they have not enabled railcard discounts against Contactless
travel.
So NR passengers can't get their railcard discounts using contactless. My
question is why ATOC put up with this? It seems to go completely against
their agreement to allow Oyster to NR routes.
As the hub at the center of the UK's rail network, I have never
understood why London's Rapid Transit system must be the exception to
the rules apply to the rest of the UK's railways. Its ticketing
arrangements should work in line with the other railways.
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