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  • IRS Form 8938, line 6

    From Fred J. Tydeman@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jun 27 16:40:55 2022
    On IRS form 8938, is the total on line 6 done day by day?

    Suppose I have USD 200,000 in one bank for January and February,
    and I have USD 300,000 in another bank for April and May.

    If the total is done day by day, then USD 300,000 is the answer.
    But, if it is sum of all (ignoring overlap or not), then USD 500,000 is answer. ---
    Fred J. Tydeman Tydeman Consulting
    tydeman@tybor.com Testing, numerics, programming
    +1 (702) 608-6093 Vice-chair of PL22.11 (ANSI "C")
    Sample C99+FPCE tests: http://www.tybor.com
    Savers sleep well, investors eat well, spenders work forever.

    --
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
    << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
    << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
    << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
    << >>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
    << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
    << are at www.asktax.org. >>
    << Copyright (2011) - All rights reserved. >>
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>

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  • From ira smilovitz@21:1/5 to Fred J. Tydeman on Mon Jun 27 20:51:27 2022
    On Monday, June 27, 2022 at 2:03:42 PM UTC-7, Fred J. Tydeman wrote:
    On IRS form 8938, is the total on line 6 done day by day?

    Suppose I have USD 200,000 in one bank for January and February,
    and I have USD 300,000 in another bank for April and May.

    If the total is done day by day, then USD 300,000 is the answer.
    But, if it is sum of all (ignoring overlap or not), then USD 500,000 is answer.
    ---
    Fred J. Tydeman Tydeman Consulting
    tyd...@tybor.com Testing, numerics, programming
    +1 (702) 608-6093 Vice-chair of PL22.11 (ANSI "C")
    Sample C99+FPCE tests: http://www.tybor.com
    Savers sleep well, investors eat well, spenders work forever.

    --

    If you read the instructions, the amount shown in Part I is the sum of the maximum amounts shown in Part V. So in your case, the maximum would be $500,000.

    Ira Smilovitz, EA
    Leonia, NJ

    --
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
    << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
    << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
    << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
    << >>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
    << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
    << are at www.asktax.org. >>
    << Copyright (2011) - All rights reserved. >>
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>

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  • From John Levine@21:1/5 to ira.smilovitz@gmail.com on Tue Jun 28 00:52:19 2022
    It appears that ira smilovitz <ira.smilovitz@gmail.com> said:
    If the total is done day by day, then USD 300,000 is the answer.
    But, if it is sum of all (ignoring overlap or not), then USD 500,000 is answer.

    If you read the instructions, the amount shown in Part I is the sum of the maximum amounts shown in Part V. So in your case, the maximum would
    be $500,000.

    The instructions say "Report the total maximum value of these deposit accounts" which seems ambiguous to me.

    The instructions about the threshold say you report if it is "more
    than $50,000 on the last day of the tax year or more than $75,000 at
    any time during the tax year" which suggests you use the actual
    maximum.

    I suppose it's safer to report the larger number and I don't see any
    downside if you're over the reporting threshold anyway.

    --
    Regards,
    John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
    Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

    --
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
    << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
    << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
    << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
    << >>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
    << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
    << are at www.asktax.org. >>
    << Copyright (2011) - All rights reserved. >>
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ira smilovitz@21:1/5 to John Levine on Tue Jun 28 03:08:41 2022
    On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 1:03:46 AM UTC-4, John Levine wrote:
    It appears that ira smilovitz <ira.sm...@gmail.com> said:
    If the total is done day by day, then USD 300,000 is the answer.
    But, if it is sum of all (ignoring overlap or not), then USD 500,000 is answer.
    If you read the instructions, the amount shown in Part I is the sum of the maximum amounts shown in Part V. So in your case, the maximum would
    be $500,000.
    The instructions say "Report the total maximum value of these deposit accounts"
    which seems ambiguous to me.

    The instructions about the threshold say you report if it is "more
    than $50,000 on the last day of the tax year or more than $75,000 at
    any time during the tax year" which suggests you use the actual
    maximum.

    I suppose it's safer to report the larger number and I don't see any
    downside if you're over the reporting threshold anyway.

    --
    Regards,
    John Levine, jo...@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
    Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
    --

    You've only looked at the specific instructions for line 6. The general instructions for Part I state:

    Part I. Foreign Deposit and Custodial Accounts Summary

    Use Part I to summarize information regarding foreign deposit and custodial accounts reported in all Parts V.

    Ira Smilovitz, EA
    Leonia, NJ

    --
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
    << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
    << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
    << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
    << >>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
    << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
    << are at www.asktax.org. >>
    << Copyright (2011) - All rights reserved. >>
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fred J. Tydeman@21:1/5 to ira smilovitz on Tue Jun 28 11:07:31 2022
    On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 03:08:41 UTC, ira smilovitz <ira.smilovitz@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 1:03:46 AM UTC-4, John Levine wrote:
    It appears that ira smilovitz <ira.sm...@gmail.com> said:
    If the total is done day by day, then USD 300,000 is the answer.
    But, if it is sum of all (ignoring overlap or not), then USD 500,000 is answer.
    If you read the instructions, the amount shown in Part I is the sum of the maximum amounts shown in Part V. So in your case, the maximum would
    be $500,000.

    I had read the instructions. I found them ambiguous. That is why I asked here.

    The instructions say "Report the total maximum value of these deposit accounts"
    which seems ambiguous to me.

    The instructions about the threshold say you report if it is "more
    than $50,000 on the last day of the tax year or more than $75,000 at
    any time during the tax year" which suggests you use the actual
    maximum.

    I suppose it's safer to report the larger number and I don't see any downside if you're over the reporting threshold anyway.

    --
    Regards,
    John Levine, jo...@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
    Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly --

    You've only looked at the specific instructions for line 6. The general instructions for Part I state:

    Part I. Foreign Deposit and Custodial Accounts Summary

    Use Part I to summarize information regarding foreign deposit and custodial accounts reported in all Parts V.

    That also is ambiguous. Is it day by day or not?

    Line 6 as written makes no sense. "total" implies more than one.
    But, "maximum value" is singular (not plural).

    It would be a lot clearer if it read (if this is what they mean):
    "Report the total of maximum values of these deposit accounts"
    or
    "Report the sum of maximum values of these deposit accounts"

    Where does one find the actual law about this?

    --
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
    << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
    << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
    << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
    << >>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
    << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
    << are at www.asktax.org. >>
    << Copyright (2011) - All rights reserved. >>
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ira smilovitz@21:1/5 to Fred J. Tydeman on Tue Jun 28 15:45:59 2022
    On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 12:03:50 PM UTC-4, Fred J. Tydeman wrote:
    On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 03:08:41 UTC, ira smilovitz <ira.sm...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 1:03:46 AM UTC-4, John Levine wrote:
    It appears that ira smilovitz <ira.sm...@gmail.com> said:
    If the total is done day by day, then USD 300,000 is the answer.
    But, if it is sum of all (ignoring overlap or not), then USD 500,000 is answer.
    If you read the instructions, the amount shown in Part I is the sum of the maximum amounts shown in Part V. So in your case, the maximum would
    be $500,000.
    I had read the instructions. I found them ambiguous. That is why I asked here.
    The instructions say "Report the total maximum value of these deposit accounts"
    which seems ambiguous to me.

    The instructions about the threshold say you report if it is "more
    than $50,000 on the last day of the tax year or more than $75,000 at
    any time during the tax year" which suggests you use the actual
    maximum.

    I suppose it's safer to report the larger number and I don't see any downside if you're over the reporting threshold anyway.

    --
    Regards,
    John Levine, jo...@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
    Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly --

    You've only looked at the specific instructions for line 6. The general instructions for Part I state:

    Part I. Foreign Deposit and Custodial Accounts Summary

    Use Part I to summarize information regarding foreign deposit and custodial accounts reported in all Parts V.
    That also is ambiguous. Is it day by day or not?

    Line 6 as written makes no sense. "total" implies more than one.
    But, "maximum value" is singular (not plural).

    It would be a lot clearer if it read (if this is what they mean):
    "Report the total of maximum values of these deposit accounts"
    or
    "Report the sum of maximum values of these deposit accounts"

    Where does one find the actual law about this?
    --

    I don't see what's ambiguous here. Part I summarizes the data in Part V by adding the amounts reported in Part V. Part V has you list the maximum value in each account as of the date that account has its maximum value. If you had $100K in bank 1 for the
    first 6 months of the year and moved it to bank 2 for the last six months, line 6 would show $200K. The fact that the line 6 amount does not even approximate the amount of assets you had in a foreign bank at any point during the year is irrelevant.

    As to the actual law - here you go:

    Form 8938 was authorized by the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA), enacted as part of the Hiring Incentives to Restore Employment Act (HIRE Act). Temporary and Proposed Regulations under Internal Revenue Code Section 6038D were issued on
    December 14, 2011 and set forth the basic requirements for filing Form 8938.

    Ira Smilovitz, EA
    Leonia, NJ

    --
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
    << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
    << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
    << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
    << >>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
    << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
    << are at www.asktax.org. >>
    << Copyright (2011) - All rights reserved. >>
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)